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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video, I compare the guts of an AOYUE 474A++ manufactured in 2014, to one manufactured in 2015. The units are vastly different - but is either better than the other?
(SPOILER ALERT: Yes.)
The 2015 model uses a DC vacuum pump, as opposed to the traditional AC pump used in the older model (and basically all other Hakko clones). Problems arise when AOYUE try to cheap out on the pump power supply ...
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I might shed some light on this. I just bought a 474A++ (which looks exactly like the newer unit in the video) AND an 852A++ Hot Air Rework Station. While they are of course two different beasts, their cases look exactly the same. That rubber-protected hole on the left side is used to allow the wire that connects a switch to go outside the case on the 852. The screws on the right side are there to hold a stand for the vacuum IC pick-up tool the 852 has, look for pictures to understand.
So maybe one of the reasons for the different case is so that Aoyue can reduce some costs using the same case for different products.
Ive had the 862D+ china station for 5 years now working on radios all winter long and that thing is so awesome Ill buy another one when it dies.
Same tip for years!!!!!
Pressing both the up and down button at the same time will activate the pump, you can use it as a vacuum pick up tool, or smoke absorber. (But only in the older models )
Thanks for sharing! One of the best videos I have seen in quite a while. Based upon your video, I was able to purchase the mode that I wanted. It should be here in 3-days. Cheers-
I have a newer model with production date 16 March 2020. The small PCB doesn’t exists anymore. The main PCB is revision WYL 2019-10-28 TY-701A+-7.
The trigger and the pump (and all other components) are connected to the main PCB. The switch isn’t breaking that high amount of amps anymore.
I have a late 2014 model with the 2014 internals and the 2015 case. You can't judge this book by its cover.
Very nice, especially the lineair pump control at the end.
I just ordered one of these based on your video (I've been in the market for ages, so I finally grabbed one). I may be coming back to ask for a circuit diagram if I get the newer revision ;-)
I second that, is there a spot you have the circuit diagram available?
Great video, I do enjoy hacking and improvement videos better than reviews and tear-downs
(and this was both!)
Thanks. Stopped me from buying some junk.
Really like this comparison.. i did find a store that has pics of the older model in The Netherlands.. big thumbs up and sub look forward to wathcing more soldering vids haha..watched this one several times..
Now they integrated the acdc ic to front pcb, and using the mosfet just like older model.. the company is alive!
(pcb markings : WYL 2017-06-14 TY-701A+-5)
Where can I get a schematic for this PCB?
As long as the new one give more vacuum that's the important point ,the switch can be modified easily with a relay ! if you use in a DIY projects and repair its good enough if you use it in a pro lab that you buy the Hakko !
Agreed. Strong vacuum is critically important.
Just a little quid pro quo. They often sit on shelves sometimes for years before going to quality check so the one may be far older than any of us think. Some are even reworked with newer boards if enough revisions are made so we can't even really rely on that for reference. Though it's usually a good marker for reputable companies, some of the cheaper brands do have this issue.
Excellent video. thank you for taking the time to make it. Would it be possible to get a schematic and parts list for the hack board?? Or maybe another video showing parts used and a step by step showing how you built it?
+SBCVETTE01 I never made a schematic for it. There's just the FET with the source pin connected to ground, the drain pin connected to one pin of the motor connector, and the other end of the motor is connected to +12V. There is a 1MOhm resistor between the gate and the source pins. The gate is then connected to a 10K resistor, then to one pin of the gun connector. The other pin of the gun connector is connected to +12V.
So, the motor is always connected to +12V, and the FET is connected in series with the motor and ground. The gun switch is connected to +12V and the gate of the FET through a resistor.
+FFcossag Thank You
Thank you very much! I really dont understand why they reverse their own engineering in a bad way, how much could they really save - if they are selling well then raise your price that difference, maybe split it into a econo model with the cheaper parts and charge more for one that's been improved instead? Shrug, I guess it's all down to how the person running the show thinks they can sell them, ethics don't seem to ever fit into the picture. I wont be buying from Aoyue... Though I heard terrible things about the new hakko's too, where the discontinued model has great reviews. Why is EVERYTHING being made crappier and crappier? I think we need a company that makes quality serviceable products with as few parts that wont be available later as possible, so things can actually be used for a lifetime, that you only replace because there is something better not because the engineering made it only good for ~1-3 years regular use... Then instead of making the same model number every change, at least add something like a revision letter or such - how the hell do they end up with 474A++ and have the next nearly completely different unit at the same ridiculous model - you would think they would do something more along the lines of 474A++ to like 474B or 474B++ if they really want those ++'s to stay, then you have lots of revisions before you go to 475.... and actually GO to 475 not make 100 different types of 474A++ lol!! None of this Chinese product idea's make any sense to me, they can make some great stuff but they really do a great job of ruining their own products and making literally the cheapest possible crap they can instead of trying to make the cheapest quality product. I do not think I will ever understand their business decisions.
I’d love to hack the firmware on my AC pump model to control a solenoid and run the motor for a several seconds with each press of the trigger. Basically, I want to pull the trigger to momentarily open the solenoid and get the pump to start. The solenoid will immediate close while the pump begins building up a vacuum so that when you pull the trigger again it will get maximum suction power as soon as the solenoid opens again. Even though the pump is running there is no suction at the tip as long as the solenoid is closed.
I have the same idea for my 2703+. I have all the parts just never got to it yet. I think it will make a huge difference.
@@brainimplants It will. :)
To test the theory, I pinched the hose, held the trigger to build suction, then jerked the hose straight to make my solder pulls. After years of struggling on the exact same job, my station went from nearly useless to making perfect solder pulls every time!
Instead of doing anything firmware-related, I ultimately exploited my station’s built-in fume extractor function which maintains continuous suction. I then set up the solenoid similar to the one Kainka Labs did on his vacuum desoldering station mods except with a foot pedal trigger.
Thank you, that was a very instructive video :)
What is the latest how is the new version holding up?
Great teardown/tutorial. I'm a total newbie to electronics and just got an old Aoyue 968 (not the newer 968+ for occasional hot air work. Both versions of the 968 have a properly filtered integral smoke absorber, linked to a soldering iron with fume extraction gun with smoke extractor.
I'm wondering if we can use the gun from the 474++ with these older units given that they are both using the more powerful double diaphragm pump used in the earlier 474++ featured in your review. Aoyue EU customer service say no but didn't/couldn't explain why this was so other than to say the units were not compatible..
Is there any good reason why we can't connect the 474++'s desoldering gun to those units - (eg due to incompatible hardware or firmware/software issue). Someone with the requisite mod/hacking skills might want to take that on. Even if it's not possible why would make a great teardown/tutorial...
I just received a very similar unit with a 12V pump but the controller is completely different from your unit. I wonder how many 'revisions' of this unit exist in the wild.
Ha, indeed. They are rather pure chinesium. Both of mine have worked excellently, though. One sees almost daily 8-hour-a-day use and I haven't even worn out the first tip yet.
Подскажите пожалуйста, в чем отличия станций 474, 474A, 474A+, 474A++ а так-же их пистолетов? И какой пистолет подойдёт на просто 474?
Is there an AC motor or DC motor installed in these stations?
I got my Int 701A++ from their American distributor in mid-2016 and it has the same mainboard and AC pump your 474A++ has. It only worked well the first time I used it and was almost unusable by mid-2017 despite very little use (months between uses). It seems that the AC pump is not very reliable [disregard; problem determined to be an invisible constriction in the hole behind the hose connection nipple].
Mine actually had two warranty seals, a foil one near the AC jack that peeled on it's own and and another paper-type on the bottom that split just from taking off the screws holding the top panel.
Since it’s been a year (out of warranty) I took it apart and cleaned all the parts on the left and the right sides (both smaller diaphragms). No improvement. Suction is so bad that the fume extractor can't even attract flux smoke without being strategically positioned for the smoke to practically float in on its own.
Despite the reputation for "extreme reliability," my AC pump seems to have died with very little use. I would suggest that you not use the fume extractor function at all if you have this pump in your unit.
The job it worked well for was removing an Atari 800XL cartridge connector with mangled pins. When I had to desolder a couple DIP40 chips in another project (Hi-Def NES) it did very poorly. I struggled through about 5 total Hi-Def NES installs before it was so bad that it was literally worse than nothing. Had to used braid, plunger, and bulb desoldering instead. Only lasted as long as it did by using every trick in the book (holding upside-down, pre-heating the opposite side with an extra hot iron, having a helper hold another iron on power and ground connections, etc).
Did I mention the constant clogs? Yeah, that's probably thanks to the AC motor being so weak.
That's odd, I've used the AC motor version in 9-5 duty with no major issues. I use genuine Hakko filters though (for both the gun and the station), to avoid flux clogging the pump. Then again, you never know what you get with these chinesium products.
FFcossag Well, after no improvement from cleaning the internals of the pump I took the lid off again and brought it back to the workstation to see what is happening when I press the trigger. That was when I noticed that you could see light coming out of the hole thanks to the clear tubing, but I also noticed that it was a tiny pinhole. Despite the tubing being clean and clear, the plastic adapter/nipple was constricted at the very back (impossible to see without light coming from the other side). Shoving a multimeter probe in there cleared it right up!
Looks like you were right about the reliability all along. :) I think I downplayed how much use the motor had because I was only thinking of how infrequently I used it for desoldering but I did use the soldering iron with fume extractor a lot more (uses the same motor).
Yeah, the AC motor is pretty weak but I can probably live with this. :) Thanks!
...oh yeah: there doesn’t seem to be a filter in the iron-mounted fume extractor so the little bit of fluff behind the hose connection nipple is all there is. It’s not nearly dense enough to filter flux fumes.
Emmett Turner, my Int701A++ has been working well 5 days a week for 3 years, now that I have figured out how to tweak the tip-to-heating-element interface and modify the filter assembly. The air pump, however, has never given me any problems. I don't use the fume sucker attachment, but you could probably add another filter inline with the air hose easily enough, similar to the one used on some older Hakko units.
@@FFcossag Another reason for poor performance is that the AC motor can’t spool up fast enough to clear a plated thru-hole before you lose thermal conductivity to the other side and it solidifies, especially on power and ground connections. It removes the solder closest to the tip first, obviously, but this means you lose thermal conductivity to the other side. If it can’t pull the solder from the other side right away it will solidify while the pump is still spooling up, and then it’s too late.
Because you need to dwell long enough for the other side to melt before you pull the trigger you can’t just pull the trigger before applying heat. That will only suck away the solder on one side as it melts and then the other side will never melt (no solder to conduct heat). The trick is to apply heat, melt both sides, pinch the hose, pull the trigger and hold to achieve max vacuum, then pull the hose straight to let air through while at maximum vacuum. I plan to add a trigger-controlled solenoid to do this with the trigger (no hose pinching) while the soldering station’s fume extractor function maintains vacuum, but the Int423 will need a mod more like KainkaLabs’ delay circuit (used with his modified ZD-whatever desolder station).
Thanks for your comparison these two modification, but unfortunately I don't know what model will be better. I have just bought new model, but weren't doing anything except cover off and look inside it. Yes, it's a new model with DC pump.
I'll appreciate anyone, who has new model and tell us how it works.
I've used both a lot since this video, and the DC pump is much nicer to work with.
Thanks for your answer, so new model works well, or maybe change this DC pump to something familiary this, but made in Japan?
Any chance you can show us how you modified the board? I saw your reply below, but I'm just not positive I know exactly what you mean, though I'd understand just fine with a quick drawing. I'm going to get one of these, and if I get the new model as I assume I will, I want to make the same change to mine based on your recommendation. Might even see about finding a better quality pump down the road to boot.
I don't think I documented it more than with what I did in this video - sorry.
Aww, it's ok. Thanks. I'm gonna try to understand better what you did, and if I can, maybe even take up the task of learning how to design an all in one replacement board that I can put up on OSHPark or something for folks to just get and solder up. I hope I can do it, it'd be nice to contribute to the community.
Good luck - we still don't know if what you'll get today is the same as what I reviewed, though.
That's ok! I'll explore it when I get it, perhaps even film it. If I do, I'll report back here with a link for you. If not, maybe I'll just take pics and see about sending them your way. :)
Could I get the schematics of that board you added onto the new unit?
I never made a schematic, it's such a simple circuit. Sorry.
I wish I seen this video before I bough the NEW model, its JUNK! Its a piece of useless JUNK, 3 days waited on it, I tough it was some "linear learning curve", but no, the PUMP is Garbage, I had the solder melted and I could tell it turned into "molten" looking liquid - then turned onto the PUMP and it sucked half of the solder, the worst part is the half left is unreachable, meaning its behind the joint, meaning it didn't do its job to suck all out.
I must say that I am a beginner but I tried all kind of combinations, different solder to re-flow, temperatures, then different flux, even got the best quality and still. The problem is that once you get the solder in molten form and suck it out half cools down and turns back into solid. BUUUUU! I have returned this NEW model back.
FYI: I used 400C - 450C on the unit , is that too much ?
No desoldering pump on the market is good at doing heavy multi-layer boards. You need to use a separate iron to add extra heat if you're working on anything with a lot of copper in it. It also takes quite a while to heat through a multi layer board, and lead-free solder flows poorly. PC motherboards are a no-go all together.
Did you do any mods are you still using it as is?
Beyond what's seen here, I'm using both units bone stock. They're still working very well.
Good review except this station has expensive consumables. Like nozzle is 6eur when SOLDER PEAK SP-1010DR a ZD915 clone is 1Eur for a nozzle.
I would be crude and use a D.P.D.T relay for both functions, im nasty that way lol.
FFcossag, I bought one off these newer model Aoyue 474A++ and I like your modification. Would you mind sharing you modification with me? Please send me the schematic for the modification. Thanks you for this informative video.
I never made a schematic, sorry.
Thumbs up :)
Alex
my god i tried to ask Witec if they have any models left that use a dual diaphragm AC pump.
but it's like pulling teeth..pfff can't get a straight answer from them really annoying.
Unloaded transformer has always higher voltage output than properly loaded.
+DjResR Yes, however transformers are usually rated for a certain voltage under a certain load; a 14 V, 30 W transformer should normally provide 14 V at 30 W, and probably closer to 20 V at no load. In the case of the DC pump power supply, the transformer is putting out about 9 V under load, so it's likely being severely overloaded.
***** Yep, that's how they're getting away with it.
i seem to have noted the amount of items that have finnish written on them so you from Finland too :D Edit: removed a text that is not needed
+thecow275 I'm Finnish by birth place and bloodline, but I don't actually speak Finnish, I'm afraid; I live on Åland.
+FFcossag i saw that language pack of a windows computer in a video about updating that oscilloscope firmware but didn't go back in the video comments of this video to edit that comment :I Åland is a nice island group and i know that inside it only 5% speak Finnish and I live on the area of Norra Österbotten im sad about that i can only speak simply put the worst Swedish/Åland so i dont even try that because some simple words can go tok(crazily) out of ordning (order) Jag tala det värsta svenska (i speak bad swedish)
+thecow275 Mun suomen kieli en ole hyvä, sun ruotsi probably better.
is this better than aoyue 8800?
+Jin I can't say for sure, but probably; the 474 seems to have more adjustment options and it obviously has a much bigger pump.
+FFcossag oh okey thankyou for fast reply i might buy this soon
+FFcossag oh okey thankyou for fast reply i might buy this soon
ooooo
is better the old one, ;)
hooray for finger hickies!
On a properly rated and sized transformer you would get DC voltage of about 1.25 times AC. On this one you are getting 12VDC because the transformer is grossly overrated. From the looks of it that is really a 50W transformer. Chinese are notorious for overrating their transformers.
+Dragan Milivojević Yep - I suppose they have a pretty good excuse in this case, since the transformer should definitely never run continuously at its full rated power in a desoldering pump. That SAID, they should have just used an adequately sized winding for the pump. It's another argument in favour of turning it into a battery powered unit, I suppose. ;)
FFcossag
You have plenty of batteries so that should not be a problem ;)
Hi Sorry for using the comments section as youtube doesn't allow DMs do you have any email that I can contact you with for product reviews? Thank you.
Oh sorry forgot to say my email and facebook contacts are in my channel info. Tnx
You can contact me at ffcossag@gmail.com, though I don't often do product reviews.