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So BAD It KILLED Historical Stories!? - Doctor Who: The Gunfighters (1966) - REVIEW
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2023
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"You can't walk into the middle of a Western town and say that you've come from outer space! Good gracious me, we'd all be arrested on a vagrancy charge!"
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Of course we'll hear from Patrick Troughton again! He was in that 2nd Doctor serial as Salamander. So uncanny they found an actor that looks exactly the 2nd Doctor.
Does Patrick Troughton have a Twin Brother?!!!
@@mandyward5372 *Holding in a Laugh* That's too Good!!!
Yah, he was offered to play Johnny Ringo but was unavailable. I cannot imagine him being Johnny Ringo.
To be fair, the Doctor says the revolver is part of his "favourite collection", which needn't be 100% guns. It could instead be some souvenirs from Earth - perhaps items given to the Doctor by famous people - and this is the only gun in the entire collection. That's how I'm going to head-canon the problem away, at any rate :)
I can imagine the Doctor at this stage of his life keeping a gun as a souvenir, he may very well just appreciate the craftsmanship and historical significance of it, as opposed to its intended purpose. It's same as how a lot of people collect and display swords but they would never think about using them to harm another person.
Yeah. I personally don’t like guns, and I don’t see myself ever getting one *to use as a gun*. But I could see myself owning a historical firearm, and keeping it in a display case with a little tag describing it. I love museums, and that very much includes war museums. The Doctor also strikes me as the type to enjoy a good museum.
Exactly my thought, part of "collection", but not specifically a "gun collection". Myself, I've always wanted a 1918 Thompson sub-machine gun. There's actually a company right now in Finland that makes non-working replicas!
The gun is part of the costume, and we know the Doctor has a fine collection of those.
Honestly, as much as the Doctor would admonish guns, he'd admire the historical nature of it. Probably rationalize it, as a lead throwing catapult, outlogic our logic. If I was the dr. I know I'd collect relics, mementos
Going by the clip, the Doctor only said that the gun was part of his favorite collection, not that it was part of his *gun* collection. It could be something like a collection of "historic objects" or "gifts I've received" or "interesting things I found on the floor".
The Gunfighters and Town Called Mercy surprisingly compliment each other as valid interpretations of the Western - the former as a Doctor Who riff on the studio bound classical Hollywood Westerns with high camp values, the latter a powerful Doctor Who riff on the revisionist Western tropes of old, wounded soldiers and a dark parallel to the slapstick of the past.
I actually like The Gunfighters, ballad and all. Incidentally, I'm almost certain this was inspired by the comedy western "Cat Ballou", which starred Jane Fonda, and was a big hit a year before The Gunfighters was written. Sprinkled through the film, the "Ballad of Cat Ballou" is sung by two singers who provide background info/commentary via the verses of the song. The singers are played by the legendary Nat King Cole and Stubby Kaye, who two decades later would guest star in Doctor Who (Delta & The Bannermen).
HAHAHA!!! I posted a similar comment, before reading yours. CAT BALLOU was 1965, too.
Actually came from High Noon I think.
@@kevingibbons6215 High Noon didn't feature a recurring ballad whose verses told the story and gave commentary on the action.
The gunfighters is one of my favorite classic stories. I went in expecting a trainwreck because I'd heard about how bad it was before I watched through Hartnell's era, but I don't think general impressions about a story have ever been so off base. This is such a fun story that I would absolutely watch many times again.
Agreed. I love The Gunfighters!
They got many of the historical markers incorrect. The big bee's knees is the appearance of Johnny Ringo at Tombstone. In real life, Ringo didn't show up to Tombstone for another month.
Also, Pa Clanton died 11 weeks prior of the OK Corral duel.
@@UnchainedAmericaTo be honest, I really don't care about historical accuracy even in historical episodes. I'm just watching for the fun stories regardless.
The Doctor has a gun collection in this story? Let’s keep that in mind for future stories there’s a particular Davros line from Journey’s End that comes into mind.
“The man who appalls violence. Never carrying a gun.”
Don't forget the doctor daughter the man who never would but I do have a gun collection 😂
@@thomaswhitney123”AH NEVAH WOOD!” The Doctor says, even though there are two gangster rap AMVs on TH-cam that show he would and has actually.
He doesn't carry them! Just collects them.
Anyone else feel like the Hartnell era can just be bizarre, tonally? 😆
That's what being the first ever era of the show means. Throwing everything together to see what works, with some episodes that stand as singular attempts in the show's canon even to this day. It's weird!
That's why we love it
So the man who never would has the gun collection i love it 😂
Doesn't mean he would use them. Like people who have lots of recipe books, but live on takeaways.
For me it makes sense, given the first doctor collects samples of various things throughout his travels it makes sense for an alien to collect - even be fascinated by - weapons of other species.
I mean, he has the De-Mat Gun and the Moment, so having comically devastating weapons while disliking them checks out.
Also in this story playing one of the Clanton Brothers is Shane Rimmer, who famously voiced Scott Tracy in Thunderbirds.
One of my favourite stories. So much so that I've researched the historical side of it. It's tonally all over the place, but it is a damn fine parody of westerns. Even the song makes sense in that capacity. Hartnell's brilliant in it. B
Top five Hartnells, this, I don't care what oldschool fandom thinks. Great review, glad you liked it overall!
I know I'm a little late to bring this up but... The late Lynda Baron would return to DW again 17 years later in Enlightenment, But I'll always remember her in Open all hours and as Aunti Mabel in Come Outside my childhood show.
I think when he said collection i don’t outright think he meant gun collection just a historical collection of items in general
The Gunfighters is one of my favorites to watch, both Ironically and unironically.
Good for you, I personally couldn’t get to the end of it fast enough. No matter how much my buddy warned me away from this episode nothing could’ve prepared me for that obnoxious frackin’ song.
Fun fact: In the Gunfighters, there is a second Thunderbirds actor present alongside David Graham - Seth Harper played by Shane Rimmer (aka Scott Tracy)
You have a point about the multiplicity of accents, since in 1881 about the only native Arizonans would have been Native Americans and Mexicans, with everybody else having drifted in from everywhere else in the US. And while we're on the subject of the Ministry of Silly Accents, didn't David Graham play Kerensky in City of Death?
I love the Gunfighters! "No thanks, I never touch the stuff!" "Well I do!"
I find a lot of people prefer the gritty or epic stories, over the fun or cheesy ones. Personally, I find cheese more appdtitising than grit. This story might have been more a case of fans not wanting a musical story, over an historical story.
Though there is a vast tonal shift between The Massacre and The Gunfighters, perhaps what both have in common, is something you pointed out - the Doctor and companions don’t have an consequential impact or involvement on the main event of the story?
I'm pretty sure that Patrick Troughton was the father of David Troughton who would later go on to play a couple roles on Doctor Who.
He's more than just that, Patrick Troughton played the iconic role of salamander in "enemy of the world" in season 5. Its lucky they managed to find an actor who resembled the 2nd doctor so closely tbh
Honest question for everyone even you Will. Which is the better Doctor Who Western episode, The Gunfighters of A Town Called Mercy?
8:07 - Speaking of Charlie (played by David Graham), one of his roles was one of Gerry Anderson's first productions - Four Feather Falls (probably the first show filmed in Supermarionation), which was set in the Wild West, and David Graham played a number of characters, such as Grandpa Ebenezer Twink, Fernando the Bandit, Big Ben the Horse Rustler Bandit, amongst others
I’ve just discovered MrTARDIS videos, and they have been an absolute joy 😊
To be fair the Doctor having a weapon collection isn't that bad. You could appall violence and at the same time admire a weapon for how it's mechanicly put together, espcially older weapons like Revolvers and Flintlocks. Star Trek did something similair in one of it's older episodes. Ironically it was also about the the gunfight at the ok corral
We also don't actually know it's a weapon collection. It's arguably implied, but all he actually says is that it's "my favourite collection," not specifically, that it's a weapon collection. It could just be a collection of things from the time period and happens to contain at least 1 gun.
For me its another case of a story being two episodes too long. I see lots of potential with this one (seens to be a trend in this leg of the First Doctor series).
I like how adorable Dodo is in her cowgirl outfit, Steven is also really good. Too bad that storywise they had nothing to do that it's meaningful.
I genuinely loved this story it was the first hartnell story I watched in its entirety and it’s got a 60s charm to it, loving the in depth review as per usual Mr Tardis! Johnny Ringo and the western setting was a perfect episode after the celestial toymaker
Has anyone notice that Steven character is wearing a awful Cowboy outfit like that Mcfly character from Back to the future 3?🤔
Peter Pervie dressed as a gay cowboy should surprise no one
Funny thing is that its not just David Graham from Thunderbirds. Seth Harper is played by Shane Rimmer, aka Scott Tracy.
He also did the audiobook of the novelisation.
I want to get the DVD of this story even more now!
It's not specified to B a GUN collection, just a collection that has a gun IN it.
"Charlie" was played by David Graham, the voice of the Daleks. he played his role very well.
That moment we all collectively stopped and looked when the gun collection line came up.
Re: the gun collection - There is another reference point for the Doctor admiring gunsmithery - his comments in The Talons of Weng Chiang about the blunderbuss being good quality because it was made in Birmingham.
It's weird seeing Doc Holliday being portrayed as a villain here especially after seeing Val Kilmer's performance in Tombstone (1993)
To be fair, I don’t think the doctor ever states that it’s specifically from a “gun” collection. It could just be part of a collection of historical artefacts and that gun is the only firearm in the collection.
But it is funnier to imagine the famous time travelling pacifist have an entire rack of guns in the tardis in case he ever needs to pull a hot fuzz
Calling a war criminal a pasafist is rediculus
Laurence Payne who played Johnny Ringo ended up losing his left eye in a sword fight in another TV show. his doctor advised him to lay still for a month to let his retina healed, he refused and got into a fist fight on-screen permanently damaging his eye.
And the Doctors gun collection....
Toy Cap Guns!
I really love the idea of the Doctor getting a toothache and deciding to get it fixed in the time and place where “bite the bullet” was coined to describe the closest thing they had to anesthesia.
Man, wait a little, next episode is set in the far future.
It's so silly and fun, I can't help but have a good time watching it!. And "Last Chance Saloon" is a bop of a song even though it's played a bit *too* much
I mentioned the Dirk Bogarde Spanish shot Western 'The Singer Not the Song' as somewhat analogous to the Sergio Leone Dollars Trilogy in an earlier post. A detail that Who fans might enjoy is the fact that Roger Delgado appeared in the movie as the heroine's father (sporting a particularly sinister goatee).
Honestly for what it is, a piece of unique music made for a low budgets 60's BBC show, the song is actually pretty good.
Overkill is right though. At some point in this production someone really should have said "wait hold on a moment, do we really need to put a line of this thing in every single time the scene changes?"
Hands down one of my favorite stories ever, absolutely tragic that some people can't see how fantastic it is.
Please see the movie High Noon. The music narrates the move and is where this episode was inspired. There is an incredible book about the history of this movie which interlaces with the history of Hollywood and the McCarthy Hearings. Get the audio book for this.
15:50 Wyatt was in reality the ONLY person not dead or wounded at the end of the Gunfight At (near) The OK Corral. 😉 Wyatt never was injured in a gun battle for his entire life.
I agree with the thrust of your argument except for a couple of caveats. The most high profile and respectable movie Westerns at the time weren't Leone's Dollars Trilogy. Apart from a young audience most people would have thought of Western movie stars as John Wayne, James Stewart or Henry Fonda (who later appeared in Leone's 'Once Upon a Time in the West') and of major Western movie directors as John Ford (who reinvented the genre with 'Stagecoach' in 1939), John Sturges or Anthony Mann. At the time Clint Eastwood was still mostly thought of as a TV Western star (from 'Rawhide'). 'Proper' movie Westerns were still seen as hailing from the US. Leone's Italian-Spanish movies were initially thought of as no more authentic than British made Westerns like 'The Singer Not the Song' (in which Dirk Bogarde played a Mexican bandido, I kid ye not). Things changed quickly as the incontestable quality of Leone's films and their fresh aesthetic made them a feature of the mainstream. But it didn't happen overnight.
On my John Alderton?… Sergeant Bullock from Boots & Saddles as Wyat Earp…memories
👵🇦🇺🇺🇸
What sort of gunfighter can't even put his gun in his holster? The guy at 3.44 needed better aim.
Nice to see the Doctor use Dr Calligari as a pseudonym. This reference to the original silent classic horror film was no more distant in time then than the original 'Star Wars' movie is now.
Hartnell was unintendedly funny throughout the serial. "Mr. Werp" LOL
The Doctor calling himself Dr. Caligari was probably the best part.
It's a very fun serial especially after the last two miss fires, this season is just all over the place.
Not quite. There were at least two historicals after this one: "The Smugglers" and "The Highlanders", the latter introducing one of the most iconic companions ever, Jamie McCrimmon.
I've always liked this story! You're right it drags just a little in the middle, but it's a good romp. The novelisation is a laugh too :)
I actually kind of like this one for the atmosphere and hilarious lines. But what I don't like is how the Doctor is portrayed as so naive, oblivious, and ineffective for the first half. It's interesting to see him as a fish out of water, but he's also not stupid like the script made his character out to be. And then for some reason he recognizes Johnny Ringo and knows who he is immediately...
Anthony Jacobs is amazing and really sells his character.
Crazy but true: my first "Wyatt Earp" story was the one on STAR TREK: "Spectre of the Gun", where the Earps were portrayed as psychopathic murderers. Somewhere along the line, I saw both "MY DARLING CLEMENTINE" with Henry Fonda & Victor Mature, and "GUNFIGHT AT THE O.K. CORRAL" with Burt Lancaster & Kirk Douglas. I suspect the latter was the main inspiration for "The Gunfighters". As it happens, Johnny Ringo is in both films.
Also crazy but true: I'm pretty sure I read about "The Gunfighters" being ranked as the "worst" story before I saw it, in the mid-80s. Despite this, "The Gunfighters" has become my FAVORITE William Hartnell story, and the only one I've pulled out to watch separate from the rest of the series-- and, more than once! Hartnell had a real knack for comedy, and it's shame there was so little of that during his 3 years on the show.
My favorite scenes include when he's confronted by the Clantons ("Oh dear, I mean, what a pleasure!"), when Dodo gets the drop on Doc (he agrees to take her back, then reveals he had his hand on his OWN gun, but just decided not to shoot her), when Steven hands the Doctor a gun, which he twirls right in front of Wyatt, who doesn't seem as disturbed as he should be, before The Doctor hands it over. I also love when someone shows up, and Wyatt says, "Oh, that's right, you haven't met POP here!" "Would you mind NOT calling me that??" (It reminds me of him objecting to Ace calling him "Professor".)
It's nuts, I know, but this has actually become my FAVORITE version of the Wyatt Earp story. It's just so FUNNY! (until the gunfight) About a year later, John Alderson played "Little John" on THE TIME TUNNEL! He was terrific in that, too. TT did multiple episodes that covered the same stories WHO had: The French Revolution, The Trojan War, "The Chase" (no kidding!), "The Time Meddler" (see "The Death Merchant" with Malachi Throne as Machiavelli, who has no business interfering in the American Civil War), even "The Space Museum" (see "The Kidnappers"). I wish that show had gone on longer than 1 season.
"CAT BALLOU" (1965) with Jane Fonda also had an ongoing musical accompanyment, provided by Nat King Cole and Stubby Kaye (who later turned up in "Delta and the Bannermen"). When I saw that film, I KNEW it had to be the inspiration for "The Ballad of the Last Chance Salloon".
I love this one, yes the song can get annoying but is bearable enough.
It’s crazy to think that responders in the Audience Research Reports were already saying the show needs a rest “as clearly ideas were running out”.
I'm glad you enjoyed this story, it is a lot of fun and much misunderstood.
It's so charming. Wonderfuly done!
Did the Dr introduce himself as Dr Caligari?
The TARDIS is his cabinet!
Lol I think if they give this the Daleks in colour treatment (as in cutting it into a movie-length product) it'd be far more well received.
The last pour historical was The Highlanders.
I hope we get the animation of Underwater Menace before Mr Tardis gets to that review.
Honestly, if you know the history of cowboys, you’ll realize why they didn’t need to cast American actors.
The stereotypical cowboy accent you hear in movies is known as the “southern draw”, which originated in the South Eastern United States. This southern accent (and southerners in general) originated and developed from English aristocratic accents, meaning that most British people who speak with a posh accent (i.e. BBC actors) can learn the cowboy accent pretty easily.
Personally, I loved this serial, was very fun and enjoyable
So Dodo's surname was just laziness and not to imply "Anne" from the Massacre lived - which of course it wouldn't actually as surnames didn't pass down the female line in France or England. The fact that Steven's home era was 400 odd years into the future and a space pilot makes me feel it unlikely that he'd be so into the "old West"
Aunty Mable on piano
i just watched this story for the first time, unaware it wasn't well regarded by fans. I enjoyed it quite a bit, it's a lot of fun.
@HectikkStudios I just saw Matthew Jacobs tell the US Gov via documentary camera crew that he was in the country illegally. I'm sure no one will notice, no one other than INS. Yeah, it'll be fine.
So I looked it up Patrick Troughton never worked television ever again I know this is true because I found the information on Wikipedia
In his defence, the gun in the Doctors collection probably isn't loaded
This is one of the GOAT stories and I'll here no word otherwise (even picked it as my profile pic!!)
I can’t agree but I love your enthusiasm!
sounds like they mixed up warren for Morgan Earp, honest mistake for 1960's England tbf. Honestly I, as a born and raised American, dont think this one is all that bad, especially given the time period
I enjoy how fun this serial is. Peter singing makes me love it.
I love this story, it's the first one i ever watched from Hartnell's era. I just can't fucking stand the main song that's played on repeat. Makes me wanna rip my ears off by the end of the Story 😭😭😭😭😭😭
I think the gunfighters should’ve been a single episode
All the best moments happen in part 1 so i agree
I think the gunfighters was like a simulation or something odd like that, maybe a celestial of film like we have the maestro, toymaker idk. Especially with the terminator immortal scene and the historical inaccuracies. Also, I think the music is absolutely horrible and repetitive to death. I loved the episode though.
The Gunfighters is a cheesy story and not even that faithful of a historical by Doctor Who standards but it is a guilty pleasure for me and I do like most of the classic historicals. It’s a shame that between The Highlander in 1966 and Black Orchid in 1982, there would be no more purely historical episodes and that’s a shame because some of my favourite episodes are the historicals. I do miss each episode part with the own tittle. It adds more layer to them.
Carry On Cowboy was released in 1966 so another influence 😁
I like The Gunfighters
I gotta admit that I wasn’t very focused while watching this story but it wasn’t for lack of trying. It was so dull. It never hooked me. I feel like I’ve watched several stories so far and thought “that wasn’t very good but I had a good time.” Boy I did not have a good time with this one.
It's a great story!
As at the time a Western hat & boots wearing and (occassional) horse-riding Texan who grew up when Westerns were on every channel, in multiple comic titles, novels and the movies, and major fan of it all, while I love the idea of the Doctor embracing the genre, man oh man did I have trouble getting into this story arc. Such awful South Western or even simple American accents. But it was meant for Brits to enjoy, so I'm sure they sounded better to y'all, the way lousy English accent sounded believable enough to us (except for Dick Van Dyke; even we know that that chimney sweep sounds dodgy). Probably also it having so much comedy, just one level away from F-Troop. The big shame is that this was my introduction to the 1st Doctor (except for the stand in from 5 Doctors) and so set me off from watching any more of his run for years to come.
If im correct they didnt another western themed story until Matt Smith
I always imagined the collection as weapons confiscated from violent, dangerous people and kept safely in the TARDIS where they wouldn’t be used.
I didn't hate this story but that song played way too many times
Killjoys can hate this episode all they want! I love it! Such a fun and goofy story.
I agree with you. First time I watched was hard. Can't explain it but the first time wasn't easy. I don't know if it was the song or what but It wasn't my favorite at that moment. Later on when I came back to it while watching the whole series from scratch, I warmed up to it. I think it is very funny. It was often the song that grated on me I think. But it was far more fun a romp the second round over.
No I did not the Highlands did
The most underrated Hartnell story!
Nice
Patrick Troughton is the father of the professor in Midnight. 😊
Also, the king in Curse of Peladon.
I almost read this as "So bad, it nearly killed Horrible Histories"
As someone who was born in Arizona.... no one speaks anything like that
The Doctor's gun collection? Damn he was really trying to blend in with the average person in a western 😂😂😂 he was dreaming of this lol
This is clearly so good that it killed other historical stories. Why would you try and one up this masterpiece?
Other than the ballad being used too much, I didn't think it was all that bad.
Look honestly I can't say if this is a good or bad story. I don't know, because that bloody song playing every scene change is so torturous I was losing my damn mind.
What's funny is the dramatic irony of Dodo and Steven being blind to the squalor and danger they're in, because they are wrapped up in the romanticised theme park image of the wild west.
The Gunfighters sounds more like a parody of American westerns than an actual historical meant to be taken seriously.