Dude, this was a legit high quality bike review. You did a hell of a job describing how the behaved in various situations. Sounds like a great bike for less aggressive riding
thanks man... The bike confirmed some of my assumptions of what a plus bike does but what was great was that it also surprised me with things it did very well. It's a pretty interesting bike but yea if you're looking to do some aggressive riding, probably not the bike for you as you'll rip the tire off the rim. I mean there's a reason why DH racers are still running 2.4 tires...
mrpercussive and that’s why I run 2.4’s too... or maybe that’s just what the shop had on hand that day but either way, I’m sold on 2.4’s. They feel more precise to me.
Solid review, very fair! :D Cushcore inserts, DH casing, a smaller frame might overcome some of the challenges, but it certainly is a different "type" of bike with its own quirks. :) I agree with you with "float" on steep loose stuff, where if its just gliding over things the difference in traction is huge especially when compared to the nearly infinite traction on more level ground. Its the biggest difference I noticed when I got my Full Stache after this bike. The FS keeps the tires planted much better on steeper stuff.
Phew! I was kinda worried I'd piss off some Stache riders by not saying that this bike is not the holy grail... HAHA. Yea I bet the Full Stache would be better at the steeper stutter sections. But the tires folding and squirming is probably still a thing I take it?
@@mrpercussive Yeah for the squirm you're likely going to want tire inserts. Maybe SE4 tires instead of XR4s, they are stiffer. I'm not a good or fast enough rider yet that squirm is an issue for me, but I'd look into inserts before going with narrower tires. Narrower tires will drop the BB further and at that point, you might be riding any other hard tail. The 3" tires are what make it a Stache :)
I love this bike!!! I had a trek remedy before and this thing beast over terrain and downhills better than that one! It’s so fun to ride man. I’m 6ft 250lbs so I keep my psi close to 25 and I haven’t experienced tire swarm yet and I ride in pretty rough terrain in Pennsylvania, but maybe if I were to put it at a lower psi I might be able to experience some tire swarm. But around 25 psi feels perfect for my weight anyway. Great review btw! 👍
@@floatstudios1759 I have heard running like a DD or DH casing helps with the squirm with the stiffer sidewall support. That and running a tire insert. I now live on the east coast and i think a lot of it could also be the style of trails. A lot of west coast stuff especially in northern California where i was from has faster and steeper stuff so things can G out pretty hard. Corners can be schlarped pretty hard too especially if there's enough support that you can blow a DH tire off a rim. 10mile rides will get you 3000feet on a mtb ride if that gives you any indicator 😅 But yea i actually had quite a lot of fun on this bike. Wished that seat tube was lower though... I didnt have any room to pump at all and was real hard to sit into the posterior chain and hold the rear axle load
Thanks man! Yea... been very fortunate to have had a lot of bikes to try out these last few months... I'm only going to be posting actual reviews on the ones I've had a significant amount of time on though... Gotta give every bike a chance before i make up my mind
Glad you mentioned the sound. Tie Fighter. Try to get a medium, it would handle (or manhandle) way better for you on the sketchy crap. I’m 6’2 on a medium rigid and it is now my #1 go to bike for everything.
The geo was only part of the problem for me. The biggest part was the tires. Even at 16/18psi and 135lbs, i was still folding the tires off the rim... Just not the bike for me. I could see myself riding it every once in a while for a laugh or if i was doing something like the baja divide, but for most of the stuff i do which freeriding, dj, dh, I'll need a regular sized tire and some travel to go with it... :)
My Growler is 27.5+ and run about 25 in the rear, I'm quite a bit bigger than you though. I can only imagine how heavy those 29+tires get! Especially if you need a tough casing.
i think the casing on the 29+ wasn't a tough one... was flexy and flimsy af... But yea, i think a plus tire could work for me if i had one with tire inserts and stiffer sidewalls for that added support
I'm from the Stache FB group. I think for a heavier weight rider with slightly increased tire pressures the tires might be a bit better. I am right around 200 lbs with gear. I normally ride about 14 psi when muddy and 15-16 in the dry. I've ridden at 12 psi and felt the tires "squirm or fold over", but at 15 psi the tires do much better in my opinion. This is my first year with the Stache. I am running the Bontrager line plus aluminum wheels with the XR4 tires front and rear. I'm not giving you my bike but I do wonder if you would feel different if you weighted more and could increase the pressure a bit. Maybe my wheel and tire setup ride make for a better ride. Who knows. Either way great review and I love the bike.
I was running 16psi front and 18psi back if i remembered correctly at 130lbs... Been a while since this review, memory is foggy. Tires did not have enough support. As others have suggested, running tire inserts or actual enduro tires with thicker casings while running the same pressures might've helped with my support issue. I would have needed to run even more air pressure for the support i needed but then there would've been the basketball effect and the tire grip wouldn't matter anymore as the bike would've been skipping enough to make the grip negligible. It's definitely a plus tire thing as they're designed to work that way with the thin walls for compliance. But any hard or side loads and the tires will fold. I was also definitely riding it outside of it's intended use though. It's a fun bike and in the right situations, i'm sure it would be amazing. But not for the kind of riding i do 99% of the time... The owner of the bike did offer me his Full Stache to try out and I might give that a go at some point but that's gonna have to take a backseat for a bit. Right now there's a line of bikes in the queue that I have to get through on top of riding my own new build. Also California is burning right now so no riding anyways... Thanks for watching man and glad you're liking your bike! A little "canyon" gap while high posting! :) instagram.com/p/CCAAcQalDrO/
Nice...Braille on a plus bike! I had a Trek Roscoe for a while, which I think might be the same bike only 27.5+. It was a ton of fun on some trails, but a little scary on others. BTW- I've got a Rocky Mountain Altitude C70 loner bike, if you want to connect in Pacifica. HMU!
Wasn't too bad on Braille... we did some stuff in east bay and that's where things got real hairy with the bigger drops and hits. Tire actually folded on me. I'd love to take you up on that Rocky Mountain! Gonna be a while though before I can ride anything techy, dislocated my thumb when tire folded on me last week on a beat up 6footer stepdown to blown out landing. Maybe in a few weeks?
Does real well for the steep tech clmbs. The rollover is amazing with the huge tire radius and tire deforms enough over tech to help you maintain stability and just watt heavy up. The amount of traction you get is also uncanny and you'll never slip even on crazy steep walls. When the climbs are smoother though, regular 29 will climb better as they have less drag. The weight on 29+ tires are actually not noticeable as they usually have real thin sidewalls to help keep the weight down
@@mrpercussive Thanks for the in-depth and prompt reply. I've got a Felt DD fat bike converted to 29+ with Maxxis tyres with EXO sidewall protection. Maybe that's why I don't get much squirm even at 13 psi. On steep non-tech climbs the wheels feel heavy and drag but just about everywhere else I really like them. I was interested in your experience.
@@weeringjohnny Fosho. Yea i feel any tire bigger than 2.6 i have to run pressures low enough for my liking to not get it to feel like a basketball and when the pressures are low, i fold the tires off the rims on hard corners or squirm on hard loads. I definitely ride pretty aggressive though as i come from a downhill background. That said, had fun on the Stache with the 29x3.0 tires. Was very grateful and fortunate to have had the bike for a few weeks to really learn the bike and what a 29+ bike does.
Yes i have heard with plus tires, having a more progressive air spring in the tire with tire inserts helps with the tire squirm issues. I have not tried it so I don't have any experience with that though.
@@mrpercussive , did you ever try running 18-20psi? I bought a stache 7 in May and found what you are describing at a particular trail that happens to be really fast and flowing, and it was noticeable in the turns, but pumped up to 20 psi and sensation was completely gone
@@juansanchez-tr1dq I didnt and probably should have given that a go. All the plus bike stache gurus were telling me to run something dumb like 10psi or something so i was already pushing it i felt. It's part of the design man. Plus tires have those high volume with weak sidewalls so you dont get much support and they will fold or squirm on you with low pressures. In higher pressures, they just act like a basketball... Like i've mentioned before, I'm sure in the right situation, it would be pretty sweet but not for me as most of the stuff i do tend to be pretty aggressive dh/fr/enduro type riding... What tires were you running on your Stache7?
@@mrpercussive it came stock with xr4 front and rear, and for what is worth, i only run then at 20 psi at a specific trail because it's fast and easy to carry goofy speed through bermed corners. Everywhere else, I run them around 16psi.
@@juansanchez-tr1dq fosho! Yea I like higher pressures in general. Keep in mind I"m only 130lbs so running 16/18 is already high for my weight and they still folded. For trail bikes with regular exo casing and no inserts, 27.5X2.4 I run 25/28... So yea I'm accustomed to more supportive tires for sure as well... the low psi grip of the plus tires really are kinda useless imo. You need the grip to be there when you need it. At speed, the tire is just unpredictable and thus rendering it dangerous imo. The only time the tire performed every single time without fail is in sprint...
As mentioned in the video and in the last comment... Not a fan of plus tires in general. Even if the frame itself rides differently, there's a reason why we still race 2.5 tires and even try and reduce the volume for a more progressive spring with inserts for downhill and enduro. That said, I do like the DHF/DHR2 combo on the Motobecane. As for getting bikes to review, i just don't have the money to buy bikes to try and review. I'm also not a pro youtuber with enough subscribers to warrant any company sending me stuff to review. All bikes I've been reviewing have been loaner bikes from people who've offered them to me or my own personal bikes. Also when I do a bike review, it's usually when i have the bike for at least a few weeks if not months riding it on a vast varied range of things before i feel comfortable making my mind on it. So a demo day doesn't cut it either... That's also a reason why I did not post a review on the Santa Cruz Bronso CC, Yeti SB130LR, Claymore, Trek Remedy, Intense Tracer, etc that I've ridden for the last few months even though I've had a few rides each on them...
Dude, this was a legit high quality bike review. You did a hell of a job describing how the behaved in various situations.
Sounds like a great bike for less aggressive riding
thanks man... The bike confirmed some of my assumptions of what a plus bike does but what was great was that it also surprised me with things it did very well. It's a pretty interesting bike but yea if you're looking to do some aggressive riding, probably not the bike for you as you'll rip the tire off the rim. I mean there's a reason why DH racers are still running 2.4 tires...
mrpercussive and that’s why I run 2.4’s too... or maybe that’s just what the shop had on hand that day but either way, I’m sold on 2.4’s. They feel more precise to me.
That's what I run on my trail bike as well... :)
Solid review, very fair! :D
Cushcore inserts, DH casing, a smaller frame might overcome some of the challenges, but it certainly is a different "type" of bike with its own quirks. :)
I agree with you with "float" on steep loose stuff, where if its just gliding over things the difference in traction is huge especially when compared to the nearly infinite traction on more level ground. Its the biggest difference I noticed when I got my Full Stache after this bike. The FS keeps the tires planted much better on steeper stuff.
Phew! I was kinda worried I'd piss off some Stache riders by not saying that this bike is not the holy grail... HAHA. Yea I bet the Full Stache would be better at the steeper stutter sections. But the tires folding and squirming is probably still a thing I take it?
@@mrpercussive Yeah for the squirm you're likely going to want tire inserts. Maybe SE4 tires instead of XR4s, they are stiffer. I'm not a good or fast enough rider yet that squirm is an issue for me, but I'd look into inserts before going with narrower tires. Narrower tires will drop the BB further and at that point, you might be riding any other hard tail. The 3" tires are what make it a Stache :)
Awesome review dude! You're making great content!
Thanks man! Just trying to get more of these learning experiences in and have fun vlogging them... :)
cushcore fixes the tire squirm. I notice a huge difference.
I love this bike!!! I had a trek remedy before and this thing beast over terrain and downhills better than that one! It’s so fun to ride man. I’m 6ft 250lbs so I keep my psi close to 25 and I haven’t experienced tire swarm yet and I ride in pretty rough terrain in Pennsylvania, but maybe if I were to put it at a lower psi I might be able to experience some tire swarm. But around 25 psi feels perfect for my weight anyway. Great review btw! 👍
I got the maxxas minion for my tires btw so I think that might make a difference for tire swarm
@@floatstudios1759 I have heard running like a DD or DH casing helps with the squirm with the stiffer sidewall support. That and running a tire insert. I now live on the east coast and i think a lot of it could also be the style of trails. A lot of west coast stuff especially in northern California where i was from has faster and steeper stuff so things can G out pretty hard. Corners can be schlarped pretty hard too especially if there's enough support that you can blow a DH tire off a rim. 10mile rides will get you 3000feet on a mtb ride if that gives you any indicator 😅
But yea i actually had quite a lot of fun on this bike. Wished that seat tube was lower though... I didnt have any room to pump at all and was real hard to sit into the posterior chain and hold the rear axle load
@@mrpercussivegood to know, thanks!
Nice Trek bike as well the others, awesome video man 💪
Thanks man! Yea... been very fortunate to have had a lot of bikes to try out these last few months... I'm only going to be posting actual reviews on the ones I've had a significant amount of time on though... Gotta give every bike a chance before i make up my mind
Glad you mentioned the sound. Tie Fighter. Try to get a medium, it would handle (or manhandle) way better for you on the sketchy crap. I’m 6’2 on a medium rigid and it is now my #1 go to bike for everything.
The geo was only part of the problem for me. The biggest part was the tires. Even at 16/18psi and 135lbs, i was still folding the tires off the rim... Just not the bike for me. I could see myself riding it every once in a while for a laugh or if i was doing something like the baja divide, but for most of the stuff i do which freeriding, dj, dh, I'll need a regular sized tire and some travel to go with it... :)
I got a 2018 Stache 7. I'm 240lbs. Looking forward to it in 2021!
Bummer that Trek has discontinued this model. Should I splurge for carbon rims?
if you've got the disposable income, why not? Hahaha!
My Growler is 27.5+ and run about 25 in the rear, I'm quite a bit bigger than you though. I can only imagine how heavy those 29+tires get! Especially if you need a tough casing.
i think the casing on the 29+ wasn't a tough one... was flexy and flimsy af... But yea, i think a plus tire could work for me if i had one with tire inserts and stiffer sidewalls for that added support
I'm from the Stache FB group. I think for a heavier weight rider with slightly increased tire pressures the tires might be a bit better. I am right around 200 lbs with gear. I normally ride about 14 psi when muddy and 15-16 in the dry. I've ridden at 12 psi and felt the tires "squirm or fold over", but at 15 psi the tires do much better in my opinion. This is my first year with the Stache. I am running the Bontrager line plus aluminum wheels with the XR4 tires front and rear. I'm not giving you my bike but I do wonder if you would feel different if you weighted more and could increase the pressure a bit. Maybe my wheel and tire setup ride make for a better ride. Who knows. Either way great review and I love the bike.
I was running 16psi front and 18psi back if i remembered correctly at 130lbs... Been a while since this review, memory is foggy. Tires did not have enough support. As others have suggested, running tire inserts or actual enduro tires with thicker casings while running the same pressures might've helped with my support issue. I would have needed to run even more air pressure for the support i needed but then there would've been the basketball effect and the tire grip wouldn't matter anymore as the bike would've been skipping enough to make the grip negligible.
It's definitely a plus tire thing as they're designed to work that way with the thin walls for compliance. But any hard or side loads and the tires will fold. I was also definitely riding it outside of it's intended use though. It's a fun bike and in the right situations, i'm sure it would be amazing. But not for the kind of riding i do 99% of the time...
The owner of the bike did offer me his Full Stache to try out and I might give that a go at some point but that's gonna have to take a backseat for a bit. Right now there's a line of bikes in the queue that I have to get through on top of riding my own new build. Also California is burning right now so no riding anyways...
Thanks for watching man and glad you're liking your bike!
A little "canyon" gap while high posting! :)
instagram.com/p/CCAAcQalDrO/
Tire squirm is because the XR2 tire is horribly thin.Put a wtb or maxxis tire on the rear and it will not squirm nearly as easy.
Nice...Braille on a plus bike! I had a Trek Roscoe for a while, which I think might be the same bike only 27.5+. It was a ton of fun on some trails, but a little scary on others. BTW- I've got a Rocky Mountain Altitude C70 loner bike, if you want to connect in Pacifica. HMU!
Wasn't too bad on Braille... we did some stuff in east bay and that's where things got real hairy with the bigger drops and hits. Tire actually folded on me.
I'd love to take you up on that Rocky Mountain! Gonna be a while though before I can ride anything techy, dislocated my thumb when tire folded on me last week on a beat up 6footer stepdown to blown out landing. Maybe in a few weeks?
@@mrpercussive Heal up quick! Send me a DM when you're ready.
@@kevinkmiller Thanks! Will do!
Great video. Can you tell us how the 29+ climbs? Do you feel the weight of those tyres?
Does real well for the steep tech clmbs. The rollover is amazing with the huge tire radius and tire deforms enough over tech to help you maintain stability and just watt heavy up. The amount of traction you get is also uncanny and you'll never slip even on crazy steep walls. When the climbs are smoother though, regular 29 will climb better as they have less drag. The weight on 29+ tires are actually not noticeable as they usually have real thin sidewalls to help keep the weight down
@@mrpercussive Thanks for the in-depth and prompt reply. I've got a Felt DD fat bike converted to 29+ with Maxxis tyres with EXO sidewall protection. Maybe that's why I don't get much squirm even at 13 psi. On steep non-tech climbs the wheels feel heavy and drag but just about everywhere else I really like them. I was interested in your experience.
@@weeringjohnny Fosho. Yea i feel any tire bigger than 2.6 i have to run pressures low enough for my liking to not get it to feel like a basketball and when the pressures are low, i fold the tires off the rims on hard corners or squirm on hard loads. I definitely ride pretty aggressive though as i come from a downhill background. That said, had fun on the Stache with the 29x3.0 tires. Was very grateful and fortunate to have had the bike for a few weeks to really learn the bike and what a 29+ bike does.
Do you think that cushcore will stop the tier problems ?
Yes i have heard with plus tires, having a more progressive air spring in the tire with tire inserts helps with the tire squirm issues. I have not tried it so I don't have any experience with that though.
Would you buy a Stache 7, your size?
Nope... not because of the Stache but towards plus bikes in general. I need more support than low psi plus bikes can give me
@@mrpercussive , did you ever try running 18-20psi? I bought a stache 7 in May and found what you are describing at a particular trail that happens to be really fast and flowing, and it was noticeable in the turns, but pumped up to 20 psi and sensation was completely gone
@@juansanchez-tr1dq I didnt and probably should have given that a go. All the plus bike stache gurus were telling me to run something dumb like 10psi or something so i was already pushing it i felt. It's part of the design man. Plus tires have those high volume with weak sidewalls so you dont get much support and they will fold or squirm on you with low pressures. In higher pressures, they just act like a basketball... Like i've mentioned before, I'm sure in the right situation, it would be pretty sweet but not for me as most of the stuff i do tend to be pretty aggressive dh/fr/enduro type riding...
What tires were you running on your Stache7?
@@mrpercussive it came stock with xr4 front and rear, and for what is worth, i only run then at 20 psi at a specific trail because it's fast and easy to carry goofy speed through bermed corners. Everywhere else, I run them around 16psi.
@@juansanchez-tr1dq fosho! Yea I like higher pressures in general. Keep in mind I"m only 130lbs so running 16/18 is already high for my weight and they still folded. For trail bikes with regular exo casing and no inserts, 27.5X2.4 I run 25/28... So yea I'm accustomed to more supportive tires for sure as well... the low psi grip of the plus tires really are kinda useless imo. You need the grip to be there when you need it. At speed, the tire is just unpredictable and thus rendering it dangerous imo. The only time the tire performed every single time without fail is in sprint...
Look at Motobecane NEW TAZ3 COMP 29er PLUS, and review it.
As mentioned in the video and in the last comment... Not a fan of plus tires in general. Even if the frame itself rides differently, there's a reason why we still race 2.5 tires and even try and reduce the volume for a more progressive spring with inserts for downhill and enduro. That said, I do like the DHF/DHR2 combo on the Motobecane.
As for getting bikes to review, i just don't have the money to buy bikes to try and review. I'm also not a pro youtuber with enough subscribers to warrant any company sending me stuff to review. All bikes I've been reviewing have been loaner bikes from people who've offered them to me or my own personal bikes. Also when I do a bike review, it's usually when i have the bike for at least a few weeks if not months riding it on a vast varied range of things before i feel comfortable making my mind on it. So a demo day doesn't cut it either... That's also a reason why I did not post a review on the Santa Cruz Bronso CC, Yeti SB130LR, Claymore, Trek Remedy, Intense Tracer, etc that I've ridden for the last few months even though I've had a few rides each on them...