absolutely! We've been currently snowed out over here on the east coast but looking forward to getting back out there once things warm back up and continue riding this groupset. Will be report back later!
so, like you said, i *have* seen all the other review videos on this groupset. the groupset has been swimming in my mind for months now. i will report that your video is the one that made me click on the 'process payment' button. didn't even wait for it to end. here we go...! i will report back. :)
Sick! Yea i was kinda in the same boat and did an impulse buy and so far it's been okay aside from the button thing and that one hotspot on the shifter for the hydraulic hose but that was pretty easily fixed with some well placed bar tape. Looking forward to hearing your experience!
It's started to warm up so i havent had any of the shift button issues come back. That said, they might when winter hits again. I suspect that might be the reason for the updated buttons on the new generation. Aside from that everything is working well and software updates are pretty cool with the latest one having cross chaining protection and such. I did email LTwoo about the buttons a few weeks ago and did not get a response. I just dm'd their IG account today so we'll see if i get one from there
@@mrpercussive The current sale was too good to pass up for the ER9 (around $331 USD before tax). Even with all the quirks, I think I can work my way around the issues since I don't ride in the cold or rain. Hopefully they'll get back to you in regards to your shift issue. I'll be installing this on my back-up bike, I'll be keeping my main bike mechanical for the foreseeable future! 😁
@@jonathan_f2 Fosho! Yea that's how i was thinking too! Yea hopefully i hear back but if you do run into issues, please come back and post a comment here and let me know! Would love to hear about your experience!
@@mrpercussive I installed the ER9 groupset a few weeks ago. It took a few rides to really dial it in, but so far it's been riding without a hitch! I also used the opportunity to upgrade to a lightweight 12 speed cassette which helped offset the weight difference with the carbon ERX. For more extreme weather/travel/long distance riding, I might stick with mechanical. Though that has less to do with LTwoo and just the nature of electronic shifting in general. Overall I can highly recommend the ER9 for those with experience doing their own bike maintenance.👍
That's definitely a warranted concern. I had my doubts as well and that's why i waited quite a while before finally pulling the trigger. For the price i was willing to take the plunge and hopefully i had waited long enough, they would have ironed out the kinks and i would hopefully get the latest iteration. Klein Concept just posted an update on his ERX slapping his bike in the shower to test for water ingress and looks like his is doing alright as well. I got my ER9 a little later than his ERX too so I'm probably alright
Oooo... i haven't even looked into that yet. I was assuming that it's just like Juintecs or something where it's probably based on some Shimano pads or something. I'll pull them out tomorrow to check that out!
You can get after market pads for these calipers. Look for those that are 26 mm wide in total and 30 mm high in total, including the hole for the safety pin. Look for i. E. 'Risk Dust DS-12S'
Had the rear derailleur replaced on warranty because of a phantom power drain issue but since that has happened everything is running great! th-cam.com/video/92x9Z04Dsew/w-d-xo.html
Hello! Do you think you could do a video on the fron derailleur first setting? I can't make my chain to stop rubbing the inside of it. I've tried it manually (with the button on the shifter) and the app (this last one tends to disconect), and it seems like it blocked to move the position in or out... like it has reached the limit... I've seen ALL the youtube videos and no one has covered the front derailleur in detail. It would be very helpful 🙏
Use the app? Set the limit and index in there. Also remember there's the trim function. Shimano has the patent for auto trim so you have to manually trim on the LTwoo just like mechanical groupsets. Click once to shift, click again to trim
The price has come down, £358 now, previously around £420 I think. Competition is coming in fast, Wheeltop EDS TX looks good, and there’s a video showing the RD being jet-washed
That's awesome! Would really love to see more brands come out with stuff. In a sport that should be more inclusive of everyone, people are getting priced out a lot. The more the better as it brings the pricepoint down. Didn't know Wheeltop had released theirs already. Can't wait to check those out!
I have not had that issue with mine. Since taking the spring out of the button and stretching it out i havent had an issue at all. It's been working perfectly
thanks for taking the time to post a review. Batteries are 3.7V lithium, right, you can't put AA batteries in there even if they're technically the same size?
Can it be setup like scram axs.? I should say can you change the button configuration to both sides. All my bikes are 1X, with Shimano I have it setup that all the buttons on right side shift down, and vice versa for the left
No... there are two buttons on each lever. You can however switch the left and right for rear and front derailleurs though and you can do it mid ride in the app so if one of the shifters' battery dies, you're not SOL and can get home.
I bought er9 version and both derailleurs were working fine. However, after updating the firmware for the rear derailleur, the front derailleur stopped working and could not be updated anymore. I tried all that I could to wake it up but, to no avail.
I just installed my ltwoo R9 hydraulic groupset and I am disappointed. The shifting resistance is appauling. I used ltwoo's supplied cable and a jagwire housing. The cable looks good quality. Copper-colored so maybe it's coated with something. It's definitely polished and smooth so maybe it's the cheap housing or the fact that I routed it on the front side of the handlebar where the horizontal bent is bigger forcing the housing to bent more. The levers have another groove to route the housing on the back side of the handle bar for a less bent of the housing so I must give it a try. But the worst thing is that the left lever bleed port screw is tightened so hard that it won't budge. I stripped and rounded its head trying to loosen it and now it's stuck forever. Suprisingly I was able to bleed the system using just one syringe plugged into the caliper so from top to bottom. But anyway I am waiting for the seller's response and his solution becasue this lever qualifies for a replacement. Other drawbacks: 1. Rubber of the hoods is slippery although it has a matte feel to it and has a texture. Shimano's hoods are way more grippy. 2. To save manufacturing costs, for the left lever they use a lever from a 2x groupset (maybe rx) because it has guiding groves for the shifter housing under the hood. They simply just don't put the cable ratchet pulley and shifitng paddle and trigger. That's ok but without this ratchert, there's a gaping hole underneath the lever where all the gunk and dust may build up. Also while on the hoods having your index and middle fingers wrapped around the hood, you can feel that hole and it's edges under the fingers tips which is uncomfortable. Especially when you grasp firmly while pedalling hard out of the saddle uphill. How much would it cost them to desing a simple plate cover with an i.e. elastic latch similar to those of battery compartments in tv remote controllers? 3. Downshift trigger is in awkward position. Its position and overall lever shape is heavily inspired by Campagnolo Ekar levers which apparently have the same problem which Paul from Mapdec Cycles reported in one of his reels. On the hoods to reach it you have to sort of lift your hand and twist it inwards. also when pressing down the trigger, if you have your fingers wrapped underneath the lever, they are right under the trigger and obstruct its downward travel so you also have to move them away. I would expect the trigger to be place more towards the front of the lever just like it is in ltwoo's mechanical road levers like r9, r7, r5... Also, it offers up to 3-4 downshift with single push. I think this is unnecessary, because it causes excessive unwanted downshifts. It could be justified in the road RX groupset in finish line sprint situations, but this is a gravel groupset so I think it's pointless and useless. On the plus side, the trigger is ergonomic and right were you'd look for it while on the drops. 4. Lever instllation is troublesome. The bolt clamp is located in the center of the lever body so the vertical part with the master cylinder obstructs access to it to an extent. Also, the bolt is very hard to reach becuse the rubber of the hood is very tight and does not peel off enough to expose the bolt. You need to have an extended hex wrench with a ball-head end and prefferably with an attachable handle. With a standard-sized wrench it will be very hard to reach the bolt. For comparison, in Shimano levers the bolt is on the outer side of the lever body and it only takes to slide the wrench under the hood to reach it. 5. The rear derailleur isa bit too big. I've installed it on an Accent Furious Pro frame and noticed that if I loosen the b-tention screw too much, the front of the derailleur where the clutch is located touches the chainstay and wedges on it preventing normal operation. Also, the part of the derailleur with this clutch is visibally made out of some kind of composite material, probably based on nylon. It's definitely not metal. The rest of the parts, like the pantograph, pulley cage are indeed metal. Unless you buy a version with a carbon pulley cage of course. Pros: 1. Overall quality is good. The logo imprints are good. They are thick and have a nice sort of brushed aluminum texture. 2. The shape of the hoods and lever blades is ergonomic. They feel good under the fingers both on the hoods and on the drops. A this point I honestly do not recommend GR9. It's not worth the risk. I can recommend R5 because I have had these levers for two years now and they have not failed so far although the shifting resistance is also quite strong but not as strong as with these GR9 eventough I have the shifting cable routed along the front of the handlebar as well . The overall build quality and shifting is comparable to Shimano Sora.
@@mrpercussive I know, still I wanted to give this opinion because in terms of the ergonomics, the potential problems with the bleed port, one may experience this with any other hydraulic groupset from ltwoo. All the more in none of the reviews of these groupsets that I found on yt, including GR9 (which are not that much and all of them are russian), somehow none of the reviewrs reported these issues. I fell kind of a duped, especially considering ltwoo comolete lack od technical support.
@@qwertyazerty2137 Fosho... yea I had mentioned my issues with the ergonomics on mine like the hotspot on where the hydraulic hose pops out. Bleed port on mine is pretty interesting with the dual ports. I've pretty much done a full bleed once and then have also done the lazy man half bleed like how i've done Shimano and it's been pretty solid. It's been pretty solid overall minus a few quirks here and there. Seems like they're constantly updating the groupsets even after official release so I can only see improvements being exponential with ever new release
@@mrpercussivetoo bad that in order to get these Improvements you will have to cash out for a new entire groupset or conponent. This is like rushing to roll out an unfinished product and from the earnings funding its final finish. By the way, I bought mine from the same seller - 80 Designer Store - who now claims that I damaged the bolt by using improper tools and he offers only a replacement bolt. I was afraid that warranty for anything from ali is fictional. I hope your set will not turn out to be faulty forcing you to deal with this seller. I concated ltwoo directly, but I suppose it's a fool's errand...
It's been going pretty good. As mentioned before in possibly this or other videos, i did have a sticky button but that was easy enough to fix. Just two screws if i remember correctly and stretched out the spring. Funny is that same thing happened to my buddy's di2 105 so it's not just L-Twoo. However I did have some water ingress issues. Got caught in some real heavy rain and my battery wouldn't hold charge for longer than a day. It got warrantied though and a new one was sent out and i'm all good again. Here's a clip update i made a few weeks back. th-cam.com/video/92x9Z04Dsew/w-d-xo.html
@@mrpercussivei’ve read some stuff on the chinertown forums that putting some dielectric around the wires plug helps with the water problems, and to just keep the charge port clean to avoid charge problems. Still on the fence for buying it
@@XXXENOWRAITHXX Yea i read that too. I haven't done any of that and just riding it the way it is with the new rear derailleur that 80 Designer Store sent me and probably going keep doing so. We'll see if the new ones that are being sent out have the problem fixed or not. I can't say enough good things about the customer service though. They got me taken cared of pretty quickly!
No idea... i think Joe from China Cycling said he's the only person with it right now so probably going to be a while. Think they might've learned from early preleasing
@@mrpercussive Cool thanx, gonna keep my eye open,wanna get this group for one of my roadbikes aliexpress looks like all the gold label groups & not the new silver logo,the Er9(alum lever) set sale starts the 18th for $416 which is incredible,ooh theres a comparo by China Cycling youtuber that shows the difference
@@mrpercussive I ordered the er9 & got a great price because they have a sale all month $379 cant be beat,they raised the price overnight but I had the price in the cart b4 they upped it ,way to get around them
Nice!!! Yea i got mine for real cheap too as there were some coupon codes with some sale thing going on. For the price it's hard to beat!@@joehiatt1992
Thank you for posting this video and giving us all an update on this groupset.
absolutely! We've been currently snowed out over here on the east coast but looking forward to getting back out there once things warm back up and continue riding this groupset. Will be report back later!
Appreciate the run down!
Absolutely!!!
so, like you said, i *have* seen all the other review videos on this groupset. the groupset has been swimming in my mind for months now. i will report that your video is the one that made me click on the 'process payment' button. didn't even wait for it to end. here we go...! i will report back. :)
Sick! Yea i was kinda in the same boat and did an impulse buy and so far it's been okay aside from the button thing and that one hotspot on the shifter for the hydraulic hose but that was pretty easily fixed with some well placed bar tape. Looking forward to hearing your experience!
you'll be the first to know, @@mrpercussive . :)
nice review and NOW you got me thinking on road whips for a budget ..... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Road bikes are fun... save the money where you can. Spend it on a frameset and wheels and get a good fit and have some fun! :)
Curious what's the long term feedback on the ER9? How are the shift buttons and front/rear derailleurs holding up? Thanks!
It's started to warm up so i havent had any of the shift button issues come back. That said, they might when winter hits again. I suspect that might be the reason for the updated buttons on the new generation. Aside from that everything is working well and software updates are pretty cool with the latest one having cross chaining protection and such. I did email LTwoo about the buttons a few weeks ago and did not get a response. I just dm'd their IG account today so we'll see if i get one from there
@@mrpercussive The current sale was too good to pass up for the ER9 (around $331 USD before tax). Even with all the quirks, I think I can work my way around the issues since I don't ride in the cold or rain. Hopefully they'll get back to you in regards to your shift issue. I'll be installing this on my back-up bike, I'll be keeping my main bike mechanical for the foreseeable future! 😁
@@jonathan_f2 Fosho! Yea that's how i was thinking too! Yea hopefully i hear back but if you do run into issues, please come back and post a comment here and let me know! Would love to hear about your experience!
@@mrpercussive I installed the ER9 groupset a few weeks ago. It took a few rides to really dial it in, but so far it's been riding without a hitch! I also used the opportunity to upgrade to a lightweight 12 speed cassette which helped offset the weight difference with the carbon ERX.
For more extreme weather/travel/long distance riding, I might stick with mechanical. Though that has less to do with LTwoo and just the nature of electronic shifting in general. Overall I can highly recommend the ER9 for those with experience doing their own bike maintenance.👍
@@jonathan_f2 thanks for coming back and sharing your experience!
Lindo video informativo,estoy esperando que llegue mi Erx ,por el momento uso el Rx y por ahora funciona muy bien
Had to use google translate for this one... yea man, let us know how the ERX treats you when it gets in!!!
I want to buy them, almost bought them er9 on AliExpress but still have trust issue due to waterproof of rear derailleur 😂
That's definitely a warranted concern. I had my doubts as well and that's why i waited quite a while before finally pulling the trigger. For the price i was willing to take the plunge and hopefully i had waited long enough, they would have ironed out the kinks and i would hopefully get the latest iteration. Klein Concept just posted an update on his ERX slapping his bike in the shower to test for water ingress and looks like his is doing alright as well. I got my ER9 a little later than his ERX too so I'm probably alright
Great content ❤ thank you
🤙
nice video mate!!!!!! in my opinion. ltwoo should change the disc brake calipers, in order to install other brands of brake pads. Grettings from chile
Oooo... i haven't even looked into that yet. I was assuming that it's just like Juintecs or something where it's probably based on some Shimano pads or something. I'll pull them out tomorrow to check that out!
You can get after market pads for these calipers. Look for those that are 26 mm wide in total and 30 mm high in total, including the hole for the safety pin. Look for i. E. 'Risk Dust DS-12S'
A nice addition.
Thanks!!!
hi! was wondering if u had any updates a year later :)
Had the rear derailleur replaced on warranty because of a phantom power drain issue but since that has happened everything is running great!
th-cam.com/video/92x9Z04Dsew/w-d-xo.html
Hello! Do you think you could do a video on the fron derailleur first setting? I can't make my chain to stop rubbing the inside of it. I've tried it manually (with the button on the shifter) and the app (this last one tends to disconect), and it seems like it blocked to move the position in or out... like it has reached the limit... I've seen ALL the youtube videos and no one has covered the front derailleur in detail. It would be very helpful 🙏
Use the app? Set the limit and index in there. Also remember there's the trim function. Shimano has the patent for auto trim so you have to manually trim on the LTwoo just like mechanical groupsets. Click once to shift, click again to trim
The price has come down, £358 now, previously around £420 I think.
Competition is coming in fast, Wheeltop EDS TX looks good, and there’s a video showing the RD being jet-washed
That's awesome! Would really love to see more brands come out with stuff. In a sport that should be more inclusive of everyone, people are getting priced out a lot. The more the better as it brings the pricepoint down. Didn't know Wheeltop had released theirs already. Can't wait to check those out!
great review . today i receive mine. coin battery are preintalled. where are they? inside of shifter? can i replace them?
They're on the side of the shifter. You'll need a small phillips screw driver to remove the cover.
Hi, have someone simillar problem. When move at FD from 1 to 2 sometimes all system go off. To wake it up i need to plug charger.
I have not had that issue with mine. Since taking the spring out of the button and stretching it out i havent had an issue at all. It's been working perfectly
thanks for taking the time to post a review. Batteries are 3.7V lithium, right, you can't put AA batteries in there even if they're technically the same size?
I dont know about the AA. Didnt try it that way. It would be way of a hassle to swap those out all the time though even if they worked
AA batteries are 1.5 volt, they just won't work.
Can it be setup like scram axs.? I should say can you change the button configuration to both sides. All my bikes are 1X, with Shimano I have it setup that all the buttons on right side shift down, and vice versa for the left
No... there are two buttons on each lever. You can however switch the left and right for rear and front derailleurs though and you can do it mid ride in the app so if one of the shifters' battery dies, you're not SOL and can get home.
I enjoyed the video. Front crank tooth? Rear sprocket teeth?
48/31x11-34
11s?12s?@@mrpercussive
@@이창훈-b7i I have mine setup for 12 but it can do 11 as well
I bought er9 version and both derailleurs were working fine. However, after updating the firmware for the rear derailleur, the front derailleur stopped working and could not be updated anymore. I tried all that I could to wake it up but, to no avail.
That's weird. Has the issue been resolved with further updates? Mine's still going good even with the updates
@@mrpercussive yes. Issue resolved. Good thing.
I just installed my ltwoo R9 hydraulic groupset and I am disappointed. The shifting resistance is appauling. I used ltwoo's supplied cable and a jagwire housing. The cable looks good quality. Copper-colored so maybe it's coated with something. It's definitely polished and smooth so maybe it's the cheap housing or the fact that I routed it on the front side of the handlebar where the horizontal bent is bigger forcing the housing to bent more. The levers have another groove to route the housing on the back side of the handle bar for a less bent of the housing so I must give it a try.
But the worst thing is that the left lever bleed port screw is tightened so hard that it won't budge. I stripped and rounded its head trying to loosen it and now it's stuck forever. Suprisingly I was able to bleed the system using just one syringe plugged into the caliper so from top to bottom. But anyway I am waiting for the seller's response and his solution becasue this lever qualifies for a replacement.
Other drawbacks:
1. Rubber of the hoods is slippery although it has a matte feel to it and has a texture. Shimano's hoods are way more grippy.
2. To save manufacturing costs, for the left lever they use a lever from a 2x groupset (maybe rx) because it has guiding groves for the shifter housing under the hood. They simply just don't put the cable ratchet pulley and shifitng paddle and trigger. That's ok but without this ratchert, there's a gaping hole underneath the lever where all the gunk and dust may build up. Also while on the hoods having your index and middle fingers wrapped around the hood, you can feel that hole and it's edges under the fingers tips which is uncomfortable. Especially when you grasp firmly while pedalling hard out of the saddle uphill. How much would it cost them to desing a simple plate cover with an i.e. elastic latch similar to those of battery compartments in tv remote controllers?
3. Downshift trigger is in awkward position. Its position and overall lever shape is heavily inspired by Campagnolo Ekar levers which apparently have the same problem which Paul from Mapdec Cycles reported in one of his reels. On the hoods to reach it you have to sort of lift your hand and twist it inwards. also when pressing down the trigger, if you have your fingers wrapped underneath the lever, they are right under the trigger and obstruct its downward travel so you also have to move them away. I would expect the trigger to be place more towards the front of the lever just like it is in ltwoo's mechanical road levers like r9, r7, r5... Also, it offers up to 3-4 downshift with single push. I think this is unnecessary, because it causes excessive unwanted downshifts. It could be justified in the road RX groupset in finish line sprint situations, but this is a gravel groupset so I think it's pointless and useless. On the plus side, the trigger is ergonomic and right were you'd look for it while on the drops.
4. Lever instllation is troublesome. The bolt clamp is located in the center of the lever body so the vertical part with the master cylinder obstructs access to it to an extent. Also, the bolt is very hard to reach becuse the rubber of the hood is very tight and does not peel off enough to expose the bolt. You need to have an extended hex wrench with a ball-head end and prefferably with an attachable handle. With a standard-sized wrench it will be very hard to reach the bolt. For comparison, in Shimano levers the bolt is on the outer side of the lever body and it only takes to slide the wrench under the hood to reach it.
5. The rear derailleur isa bit too big. I've installed it on an Accent Furious Pro frame and noticed that if I loosen the b-tention screw too much, the front of the derailleur where the clutch is located touches the chainstay and wedges on it preventing normal operation. Also, the part of the derailleur with this clutch is visibally made out of some kind of composite material, probably based on nylon. It's definitely not metal. The rest of the parts, like the pantograph, pulley cage are indeed metal. Unless you buy a version with a carbon pulley cage of course.
Pros:
1. Overall quality is good. The logo imprints are good. They are thick and have a nice sort of brushed aluminum texture.
2. The shape of the hoods and lever blades is ergonomic. They feel good under the fingers both on the hoods and on the drops.
A this point I honestly do not recommend GR9. It's not worth the risk. I can recommend R5 because I have had these levers for two years now and they have not failed so far although the shifting resistance is also quite strong but not as strong as with these GR9 eventough I have the shifting cable routed along the front of the handlebar as well . The overall build quality and shifting is comparable to Shimano Sora.
Sorry you're having a not so great experience. That said, you do realize we're talking about different groupsets here right? The one I got is the ER9
@@mrpercussive I know, still I wanted to give this opinion because in terms of the ergonomics, the potential problems with the bleed port, one may experience this with any other hydraulic groupset from ltwoo. All the more in none of the reviews of these groupsets that I found on yt, including GR9 (which are not that much and all of them are russian), somehow none of the reviewrs reported these issues. I fell kind of a duped, especially considering ltwoo comolete lack od technical support.
@@qwertyazerty2137 Fosho... yea I had mentioned my issues with the ergonomics on mine like the hotspot on where the hydraulic hose pops out. Bleed port on mine is pretty interesting with the dual ports. I've pretty much done a full bleed once and then have also done the lazy man half bleed like how i've done Shimano and it's been pretty solid. It's been pretty solid overall minus a few quirks here and there. Seems like they're constantly updating the groupsets even after official release so I can only see improvements being exponential with ever new release
@@mrpercussivetoo bad that in order to get these Improvements you will have to cash out for a new entire groupset or conponent. This is like rushing to roll out an unfinished product and from the earnings funding its final finish.
By the way, I bought mine from the same seller - 80 Designer Store - who now claims that I damaged the bolt by using improper tools and he offers only a replacement bolt. I was afraid that warranty for anything from ali is fictional. I hope your set will not turn out to be faulty forcing you to deal with this seller. I concated ltwoo directly, but I suppose it's a fool's errand...
Have you adjusted the chain length?
what do you mean?
these levers stick outside so much... i wonder what happens to them when you fall
Dunno and hope i never find out. My bike did drop the other day on the floor from not leaning it on the wall properly the other day. No visible damage
How is it going? Thanks
It's been going pretty good. As mentioned before in possibly this or other videos, i did have a sticky button but that was easy enough to fix. Just two screws if i remember correctly and stretched out the spring. Funny is that same thing happened to my buddy's di2 105 so it's not just L-Twoo. However I did have some water ingress issues. Got caught in some real heavy rain and my battery wouldn't hold charge for longer than a day. It got warrantied though and a new one was sent out and i'm all good again.
Here's a clip update i made a few weeks back.
th-cam.com/video/92x9Z04Dsew/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the response
@@mrpercussivei’ve read some stuff on the chinertown forums that putting some dielectric around the wires plug helps with the water problems, and to just keep the charge port clean to avoid charge problems. Still on the fence for buying it
@@XXXENOWRAITHXX Yea i read that too. I haven't done any of that and just riding it the way it is with the new rear derailleur that 80 Designer Store sent me and probably going keep doing so. We'll see if the new ones that are being sent out have the problem fixed or not. I can't say enough good things about the customer service though. They got me taken cared of pretty quickly!
Anyone know when the Updated version will be sold,theres another new vid
No idea... i think Joe from China Cycling said he's the only person with it right now so probably going to be a while. Think they might've learned from early preleasing
@@mrpercussive Cool thanx, gonna keep my eye open,wanna get this group for one of my roadbikes aliexpress looks like all the gold label groups & not the new silver logo,the Er9(alum lever) set sale starts the 18th for $416 which is incredible,ooh theres a comparo by China Cycling youtuber that shows the difference
@@mrpercussive I ordered the er9 & got a great price because they have a sale all month $379 cant be beat,they raised the price overnight but I had the price in the cart b4 they upped it ,way to get around them
Nice!!! Yea i got mine for real cheap too as there were some coupon codes with some sale thing going on. For the price it's hard to beat!@@joehiatt1992