INTENSE ARGUMENT between ATC and Instructor in Florida!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 เม.ย. 2022
- Your support is really important and appreciated to keep these videos coming! =)
-- / vasaviation
-- paypal.me/VASAviation
Become a VIP member of VASAviation! -- / @vasaviation
Join VASAviation's Discord -- / discord
Twitter/Facebook/Instagram -- @VASAviation
Audio source: www.liveatc.net/
That was absolutely unacceptable from both parties. No matter who is right or wrong, talk it on the ground.
It’d be funny if they actually ran out on the field and threw hands
😹😹😹
ATC: Tower request cross runway 25L for throwing hands with company.
Tower: ATC, hold short runway 25L
Tower: ATC cross runway 25L, cleared for throwing hands.
@@uncle1886 True.
Exactly, that would have been extremely frustrating and distracting to the other pilots on frequency
The most intelligent communication in this whole clip is the third party aircraft saying "we're just finishing our popcorn". Seriously though, this is ridiculous
I think it was a subtle and clever way of saying this argument has gone too long.
HWO is an FCT (Federal Contract Tower). So you're getting the ATC equivalent of Class-A baseball. In the majors we (1) don't behave like that and (2) immediately bitchslap any pilot that talks stupid on the freq.
@@drinksnapple8997 This reply is about as ignorant as they come. Majors? The FAA and the garbage they hire nowadays are an embarrassment to professional controllers.
We’re just finishing our popcorn has me laughing
It was moronic and shouldn’t have seen said it added absolutely nothing
I feel sorry for the poor student spending hard earned money witnessing unprofessional behavior from both parties. In addition, the other aircraft in the pattern were left without control from the tower, very unsafe, VFR notwithstanding.
Actually this was probably a good thing. This incident revealed how they need to switch instructors immediately. Probably saved them a lot of grief and possibly danger in the future.
My guess is the student was female and the instructor felt emasculated in some way. I could be wrong.
@@markmaki4460 the instructor refers to the student as “him” so I think he’s just too proud to accept criticism, male or female
I think the student probably found another instructor after that.
If you are the student on that flight, get another instructor, like NOW. That guy is an accident looking for someplace to happen.
I've been flight instructing for over 36 years, what an embarrassment to the profession.
yeah I'm sure the "profession" is really "embarrassed" lol
@@uy7munirwe wuz kangz. Lol you goof
@@uy7munir What?
You sir now have your 100th like! Thank you for your 36 years of service. :)
Unless you cant think ..or geenalize..no one was thinking this reflects negatively on the entire fligh instructor industry
Hey all, I was the CFI who made a complaint about this guy. The video didn't catch this part but just before we did parallel base turns on 10L (us) and 10R (him). I was a 700 hour instructor at the time and his student, in my opinion, wasn't making a timely turn to final so I went direct the numbers. I wasn't mad and made a cursory comment of "Tower I'm not upset just please advise these guys to keep it a little tighter". Fortunately for me in the video he didn't recognize my voice because I just kept quiet and ATC called out the wrong tail number to advise of the "counter- complaint". In the interest of anonymity, I didn't correct them. But being myself I couldn't help but make the popcorn comment because this guy has a reputation around the airport for acting in the way he does. Just felt like I'd complete the story 1 year later. At 1100 hours I still admit when I don't know something or if I'm wrong or if my power off 180 was sloppy. Accountability makes us all better when we objectively observe our mistakes.
Honestly not surprising that this guy has a reputation for acting that way, it seemed like there was a history between the CFI and the ATC. Your popcorn comment was brilliant
Thanks for the follow-up! I did my primary training at a pretty busy airport (KPDK in Atlanta) and I just can't imagine someone whining on frequency about something so minor.
Well played, airman!
Cancel his license and he can go home!!!! and stay there!!!! period!!!!
You did the right thing, if he made a small mistake someone need to say something because holding up ATC on radio frequency planes are flying kind of blindly. The instructor should have been a man and accepted fault of his SHORT comings.
ATTENTION student in this plane:
You need to drop this instructor
1- this level of belligerence is unacceptable
2- while he’s arguing, he’s not giving full attention to his primary job (instructing/taking your money)
3- Last and most important, he is likely a danger to himself and everyone else. This kind of attitude gives me reason to believe any slight against him could be met with retaliation, in the plane or not.
"This kind of attitude gives me reason to believe any slight against him could be met with retaliation"
Exactly. Something tells me that Crew Resource Management is not this guy's forté. Definitely someone not to learn from.
Congesting an ATC channel for something like that is horrid. That instructor should not have a certificate.
Fire that instructor! Please!!
The ATC was also being a dick
I would have landed the plane, gone into the office and filed a formal complaint with God and everyone down the chain and demanded a full refund if I was that student. I would take my refund and then file every complaint I could think of with the FAA and have that school shut down.
"You're always so defensive"
So, this is a recurring problem, and this person is an instructor?
right?
I’ve heard this guy in our practice area… 😂😂😂
@@maxfrankow1238 I was waiting to hear "Im'a tell my mom on you" 😅 Thought I was watching an AFP95 video.
@@neom0nk The fact that he's still flying is a problem on its own.
@@logicplague2077 he literally just got re-certified in March. he is a ATP/CFI/FE
“Full stop stop taxi back due to uhhh…… due to you” 💀💀💀
I spit out my drink🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I fly out of an airport in NC and I’m friends with one of our tower controllers who used to be a controller at this airport. He told me yesterday that one time he assigned this instructor a certain runway. The guy refused saying he needed a different runway for operational limitations. It was supposedly because winds were too strong (they were at 4 knots). Anyway, the controller couldn’t give it to him because of either some survey or banner work near that side of the airport. The instructor kept arguing and my friend kicked him out of the airspace. The instructor then declared an emergency so he could get the runway he wanted. And my friend said this wasn’t the only incident that guy had. Sounds like he needs his license revoked 🤷🏻♂️
This instructor is setting an awful example to his student. You DO NOT HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS ON FREQUENCY. The distraction creates a safety issue. I hope the FAA investigates this and implements some corrective actions. This cannot happen. I am irate with this pilot. That's an example of how not to resolve conflict.
I'm pissed at the tower controller. There was no reason to argue about it. Tell the instructor to call the tower the first time he talks back.
that is usa culture...
@@evangelgreek6864 what a interesting and insightful comment.
@@dcviper985 Obviously the controller was trying to hold his cool but the idiot instructor must think he is the ultimate authority on flying. I think the controller should have realized you can't argue with a fool.
Probably not a good idea, but can the student file complaints against both the ATC and the instructor?
A perfect example of a disastrous and shitty flight instructor. He clearly has trouble accepting responsibility and admitting to fault. I feel bad for all his students. I would expeditiously
request another CFI if were one of his students.
@Papi Shampoo :
And if he's the only instructor, or the owner of the operation????
@@K7DFA Find another operation. There's tons of them in south Florida. This is instructor is a clown.
A CFI, such as this idiot, is a danger to their students and the airspace, and can potentially set their students up for an accident down the road.
(The following is a generalization, and is not directed at any particular person)
If you're a newby pilot, its not a bad idea to do an "Intro to Flight" with a potential instructor before signing up. It might be a little more expensive, but is well worth it. It at least gives you an opportunity to vet potential instructors.
Stay away from one-person shows (i.e., owner & sole CFI), unless they are highly recommended by other pilots. New, one-person shops are popping up all over, now that Covid has run its course -- I'm all for supporting them, but only if the Owner/CFI has a good reputation.
@@K7DFA go to another flight school. As a student pilot its adviseable to seek references and do some background checking before paying your money.
I agree. Even the instructor admitted in the beginning that he did overshoot by 20'..So just apologize and move on and quit the anti-authority attitude.
It is a serious sin in my book to tie up an active frequency like this. I remember back in the late 90s attempting to get into an airport in Georgia with an active control tower. I had just been handed off from Tracon to the Tower and was seconds from declaring a missed approach and a go-around because the tower controller was doing this exact same thing. I had NO landing clearance. Every time I attempted to contact the tower when I released my PTT I could hear I was being spoken over! This kind of childlike bullshit has NO place in aviation! If you as a pilot don't like the actions or words of a controller, land and contact that ATC facility THEN! I remember speaking to a tower supervisor in the staircase in the control tower at the Ashville NC airport. One of the controllers violated clear set out procedures and I filed a complaint with the FAA over that jackass. STILL, I did it on the ground and did not tie up a vital communications channel!
Agreed. The instructor is definitely in the wrong here but the controller should've given him a number to call about four minutes sooner. There's a time and a place for debating blame but this ain't it.
So true. Very justified anger listening to these two have an Ego war at the expense of safety.
@@lightwalker222 But then we couldn't have a chance to enjoy our popcorn here on youtube :-D
I would’ve landed without the clearance and dealt with the explaining. Their fault.
@@matyxcz True 🍿🍿🤣
It is frightening that we are sharing the sky with this pilot, and it is even scarier that he is instructing other pilots.
Think about the people that are driving on the road. Lol.
Take the correction, even if you disagree. End of conversation. All this "who is this on the frequency" and "did you say something to be on the upwind" garbage, I'm with ATC on this. He might have handled it better, but this pilot shouldn't be instructing anyone.
both of them suck and are clowns imo
No, ATC should have stopped the discussion a long time ago and get to the "pilot deviation, copy the number" stage much sooner. Lack of professionalism from both.
@@tomhejda6450 I agree, but I wonder if the controller has been dealing with this guy’s crap for a while now and finally lost his patience
@@ogalief Yeah, there were many references by the ATC about how the instructor is always defense when a corrective action or instruction is given to him. As bad as the ATC was, my guess is that he finally had enough of this assholes shit.
@@ogalief You can't lose your patience when you're an ATC and controlling. They were both extremely unprofessional, yes the CFI should have his licence taken away but the ATC needs a scolding as well.
He kept arguing saying "no sir i saw you overshoot, you're wrong" when he could have just let it go.
“Finishing our popcorn” What a legend 🤣‼️
Yup...scrolled down looking for this...😄they just got meme'd and didn't catch on lol
I cannot explain why I act up like this. CFI of 76G at the service of the public.
3:30
That instructor is extremely dangerous .. arrogance and ignorance have NO place in the cocpit!
The ATC is extremely dangerous thank goodness he was fired
Bad spelling and grammar have no place in the comments section.
"We're just finishing our popcorn." I LOL'ed.
CFI of 76G and also super late on the engagement. Glad to bring you a smile
I agree fighting isn't good but it sounds like this pilot has a history of this and the ATC just finally had it. Pilot sounds like one of those guys that does whatever he wants and is a danger.
Most likely, you’re right, but this could be a case of an overzealous Traffic controller. Both are wrong.
@@brucecuratola6389 The controller said or did nothing wrong in that whole exchange.
@@kaypie3112 He shouldn’t have entertained the instructors remarks. That creates a dangerous environment for everyone in the airspace
@@mgoblue0970 ehh… no
Considering the instructor teaches out of there it's safe to assume there's some background to this personally. Maybe they just broke up, who knows.
That instructor needs a reality check. Why argue over such petty crap. Bad example to set for student as well.
He should not be an instructor ..maybe not even pilot... Shame...
Especially since it seems it's a regular occurrence for the gut. He needs some basic training and to dump his "precious" ego
@@mmgoodwings3981 yup
Hope it was worth it now the instructor will have it on his record
I've met some instructors with attitude but nothing like this
That "due to you" was brutal
I know these controllers! It’s a high traffic airport. Sometimes the volume is higher than it’s neighbour Miami Opa Locka.
These guys work hard! When they call you on something, it’s about safety and flow. I was at first kinda nervous about these guys but in the end I really appreciated them! Good work, professional and always understanding (did some mistakes too, excused myself after landing when switching over- no harm, controller actually laughed and told me, everything is fine)
Always busier than opa 🙌
This instructor should have his license pulled. He’s arrogant and dangerous. Should not be teaching anyone.
@@jmwhambone6223
Agreed....the controllers already have enough to do without having to put with arrogant ESL-CFI's.
The instructor was ridiculous. So was the tower ATC. Both should be under investigation.
Agreed
Buddy shouldn't be flying if he can't remain succinct and professional on ATC channels. Getting your back up and getting distracted while flying or teaching flying is a possibly fatal mistake.
ATC too
Someone is going to have an accident while the two of you are arguing, this is nonsense.
Tower did ask for silence apart from ATC comms. Instructor refused. Likely the source of pilot deviation
Exactly. It takes _two_ to argue.
Realistically the freq and area was quiet, otherwise the controller would have just ignored him and spoken to others when needed, like he did to popcorn guy.
In a student-rich environment in the pattern it is even more dangerous.
I think the popcorn bit had me, but then tower dropped "Taxi back *due to you.*" and I absolutely lost my shit.
Good afternoon! CFI of 76G here. I like to imagine that if the world ends ill be telling people about memes around a campfire. Thank you for your support!
3:30 "we're just finishing our popcorn" 🤣🤣🤣
CFI of 76G here. Sometimes I get silly on frequency and have no clue why I do it XD XD. Glad to bring some levity your way and thank you for the support :)
@@user-ub3cf5kc5h
That was funny af. Thanks for your reply and keep the blue side up! 🤘
The comment should have been “here is a phone number to call when you land”. The flight school should be reconsidering his employment as an instructor.
And the controller needs to review procedures as well.
It seems that he is owner of it.
That tail number comes back to an individual, and (complete assumption) based on the accent, I suspect the owner of the plane is the one instructing. May be that he is working for himself giving flight instruction. (EDIT) The name also comes back to manager of a flight school. Seems to be the guy
@@davidfrench5407 If it's the same guy, he's been a flight instructor at North Perry Airport since at least 1993. I can only imagine what ATC has dealt with over the last 28 years.
He was demanding the option, and refused to stop arguing when told radio silence but for flight operations. You can argue the first point, but I think the second qualifies for possible pilot deviation.
This would definetly my last flight as a student with this teacher
I agree
Teacher i bet u overshot the rw in your young life.u r human too.just my opinion
"Full stop, taxi back due to...due to you." LOL hahahaha
I’m an instructor and things can go slightly awry especially (though not exclusively) when the student is flying, and ATC will pull me up on it. My reply is invariably to thank them, and apologise; always grateful for their assistance. We’re in this together
I'm with ATC on this one. This clown is an instructor? Absolutely ridiculous. I feel bad for his student.
The tower was just adding more fuel to the fire. As soon as the rant started he should have said to only do traffic safety messaging on the frequency and this would be continued on the ground.
Me too. The ATC is 100% right in this. Instructor should be, well, not an instructor.
@@kpg-uo1tm ATC may have been correct, but was still 100% unprofessional. They should be under investigation also.
ATC is 100% right!? Lol what???? He was clogging his own frequency by trying to string an argument along. Regardless of who's right or wrong, argue on the phone not on the radio.
Wow
I feel sorry for that poor student 😂
I'd be very nervous in a situation like that. I recently started my PPL lessons (finally!), and I'm glad the instructor is always paying close attention to what I'm doing, and is ready to correct my mistakes either with an explanation or by taking action. If he'd be dicking around on the radio, he wouldn't be able to do that and it'd be just me flying the plane. Not a comforting thought, especially in a somewhat busy airspace.
He probably wishes it was a sky diving plane so he could just jump out of it. "See ya! Wouldn't wanna be ya!"
For better or worse, I highly doubt he will overshoot ever again.
1:16 TWR wasn’t playing around. The didgeridoo blasting in the background made it sound like he was summoning a spirit to strike down the offending pilot
"North Perry" tells me everything I needed to know
I was already uncomfortable in the first 30 seconds of arguing, can't believe they kept with this for that much longer
@MeandMyStaffy tell us the issue
Classic pissing contest/chest-beating behavior. It happens.
Holy moly. I had just landed on runway 10L at North Perry while we were hearing this! I looked over to my instructor and said I recognise that voice and my instructor said “yeah that person sucks”
That instructor doesn’t realize that aviation is a small world and that he is burning many bridges.
Sounds like this pilot is famous for all the wrong reasons.
@@something7239 I think we will be reading about him when he crashes and kills someone with that arrogance. Clearly the ATC has had to deal with him before.
That clown (SELIM SHAHIR) needs to be sent back to Egypt, permanently. He is a long history of complaints & being a professional PIA.
Did he say he wanted to pull the tape of the guy saying he just finished his popcorn? Lmao
Yep but i know better than to respond to silly geese like that on a recorded line. CFI of 76G at your service
Instructor sounds like those scammer guys that call you and pester you.
He was going to tell the tower about their extended car warranty
Pro tip for instructor: Just accept it and worry about who’s right and who’s wrong on the ground. The instructor definitely was adding fuel to the fire, and could’ve diffused it by accepting what happened, and leaving it for the ground.
What a you-know-what swinging contest! Egos on both sides just would not let it go. I'm with the blue-font guy, *"Just finishing my popcorn."* LOL!
This instructor turned an simple fix & forget situation into a major big deal.
Grab and pen and paper, I have a phone number for you to copy. busted.
I think the big deal was just the argument. The “possible pilot deviation” at the end was just the original overshoot complaint and the ATC’s way of killing the radio talk (about 5 minutes too late), no?
Well said King
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference"
- Mark Twain
"uhhh... do to you." I'm fucking dead.
Reminds me of a certain N1NR who also didn't know when to shut it.
Pilots under towered airports usually have radars & conversations which are all recorded.
The controller should've issued a "Possible pilot deviation" much earlier on as this guy was simply not going to quit.
To the student reading this, I hope you dropped this terrible instructor as his distraction could've easily caused tragedy plus their focus isn't on instructing you.
Never argue in the radio. Solve your problems on the ground.
Sometimes, you're never going to see that person again, so, unfortunately, getting your licks in immediately on frequency is the only way.....
... and at the car park :D
Yeah, make an appointment for a fistfight.
Just last week I (PPL student) made a small mistake during climbout myself and instructor didn't notice at the time. ATC called us and asked what happened and my instructor immediately apologized; the whole dialog took about 10 seconds. We reviewed the tracklog later on the ground to figure out how we both missed it.
.... or I could have had this instructor.
I could tell by the way the instructor acted this wasn't his 1st time acting a fool
These two have a grudge that obviously goes way back.
Based on towers comment near the start about this guy seemingly always being like this, if he is in fact like this, I’d honestly just say take his license away. Sure the tower wasn’t in the right either, but suspend him or make him redo some training as punishment. The pilot however is just too far gone if he continually does stuff like this. He’s a danger to everyone.
What license? Driver license?
The controller should have shut down the conversation earlier, but may have felt it was safer to engage this guy, letting him vent, before shutting him down. When the controller did try, more than once, to shut him down the pilot disregarded it. If I had been the controller (btw I am not a controllerl) I would have had it front and center in my mind that there was a student aboard, and the possible risk posed by the instructor if didn't get to vent.
The bigger worry is this person instructing, setting the worst possible example
I worked there for several years, that pilot is an absolute nightmare. This is far from the first incident with him.
The controller on finally reached his tipping point.
@@robertm7624 I keep telling these people that the FAA doesn't issue Licenses!!!
That instructor should absolutely have his licenses revoked. That was absolutely crazy and ridiculous.
Angle of Attack
Mr. Palmer in the house 🙌
Get him Chris lol.. I’m sat here thinking this douche has just set a seriously unforgettable for all the wrong reasons example of how to behave in the cockpit.. he seriously needs to understand radio phraseology as well. A simple yeah twr we are sorry about that but nope..
Dude, so unprofessional. I hope the tower controller filed a report with the FAA and the FCC. Deviate the hell out of that clown
Anyway he is good grandpa!
I love how the argument ends when ATC tells him to call the tower 🤣
He doesn't have to call the tower at all
Welcome to South Florida. The macho-man is always in charge, and you are not. Oh, and he's NEVER wrong. This level of arrogance is also on full display in cars on the streets, in stores, at sports events, etc. This one's a danger to others and especially the aviation community.
That instructor is ridiculous, how unprofessional and the resultant frequency congestion is simply unacceptable, this was literally the kind of thing that could have caused an accident/incident.
Especially at HWO... That airport is insane.
This pilot must have some interesting interactions at the McDonald's drive thru window too!
I don’t know why but this cracked me up
Yeah... I bet! Well...he is a 🤡
(from the loudspeaker) Ronald, is that you?
(from the loudspeaker) Sir, I have a phone number for you to write down...
“Sir I cannot hand you your French fries, you overshot the drive through window.”
“NO I DID NOT, PULL THE TAPE, WHAT DID THAT GUY LAUGHING AT THE GRILL JUST SAY”
😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
That was the most insane ATC communication ever haha
He's argumentative by nature and leave it at that. These types rarely if ever admit their own mistakes.
Good lord.... Every time I thought the instructor was done... He just kept going!
Yup
3:30 "We're just finishing our popcorn" Goddamn roasted 😂
CFI of 76G here. My motto for instruction is "There's no reason we can't be safe, follow the rules and have fun at the same time". I appreciate you chief
That has to be the most unprofessional ATCs I've ever heard. You told him what you needed to, don't argue, if he isn't doing what he should then you write up the report on him, you don't argue.
I work for a festival where we use radios all day. Even we wouldn't broadcast an argument like this on an open frequency. Holy smokes!
As the ATC, I'd have started filing an incident report after the second round of talkback. Then given him a number to call after the flight.
As the ATC, I wouldn't even engage in any of this. You pass on the complaint and if he goes "but I was just 20 feet over", you don't argue. You say: "Just passing on the report, Sir. Happy to give you details after your arrival." and end it. Both were massively unprofessional and ego-driven - but you're right, the instructor was the worse of the two and the one keeping it going.
@@QemeH "Advise when ready to copy a number to call"...
Well .. know that we are all thrilled that you are not an ATC
Don't argue. If tower asks about overshoting the runway just apologize and continue. This is dangerous and petty any he turned what was a simple request into a major incident that could get the FAA involved. From tower's reaction this guy has done things like this before so in a way maybe this is good, now the FAA can order remedial training if they think it is bad enough
There is a cultural inability for some to show even a modicum of humility, a personal inability for others, and both for yet others. I suspect this fellow had something more immediate to his ego to prove, therefore i suspect the poor student is family or unrelated female.
This clown has no business being near a plane let alone being a instructor
Idk. If this incident were to be flagged by the FAA, it wouldn't be because of the dangerous overshooting-the-runway maneuver, or due to the pilot arguing with ATC.
Both the pilot and the controller engaged in a verbal dispute, over the air & during flight operations, about something not worthy of discussion on frequency. The ATC controller chose to fully engage in the non-ATC approved dialogue over the air, when he should have shut it down after the pilot initially voiced his disagreement about the controller's request/instruction. Give the pilot a phone number and say it can be discussed on the ground, not OTA (and don't engage the pilot again afterward!!).
Having a dispute is not always a bad thing; however, disregarding the "when, where, and how" that argument occurs IS, EVERY time.
That pilot wasss soooo annoying. Dangerous attitude, hope he gets remedial training for everyone's safety.
We distinctly heard the controller tell this guy he is ALWAYS defensive. Reminds me of #45. Never wrong.
“My fault, won’t happen again”
Wouldn’t that have been wild to hear
OMG! If I was that guy's student' I'd have jumped out of the plane! What a gaslighter.
The instructor was in the wrong here. I’ve flown general aviation for over 20 years and occasionally you get a hot headed controller who may even be 100% in the wrong. The correct response is to Deescalate the situation: simply say “ thank you and I’m sorry”. End of conversation. Getting into an argument only adds stressTo every other plane of the channel and stress makes accidents more likely.
Agreed. It’s just like getting chewed out by a superior in the military. Arguing your point is only going to make things worse. Just give them the old “yessir, sorry sir,” and move on.
Agreed, but the ATC could have chosen to feed slate as well. Classic example of a argument between two type A personalities , neither of which giving an inch to improve flight safety.
I feel like the tower had to be the authority. He did try to stop it but the instructor kept coming back and I don't think the tower could have just let it go and not responded. I don't know. Maybe at first the instructor felt he was defending his student, still no excuse though.
I was flying out of KAHN to Laurens, SC KLUX. ATC apparently heard Lawrenceville KLZU on my initial call. When I made my turn out ATC requested an on-course heading since LZU and LUX are opposite directions and in ATC's opinion I had done something totally unexpected. I got chewed on by ATC for giving the wrong identifier. I knew I had given the correct airport because I was a brand new private pilot and I had everything written down for my initial call. I was told during my training not to argue with ATC so I simply said "My apologies, it should be LUX". I was fuming mad because I felt like it was ATC's fault and I was embarrassed on the radio at my home airport. I had all intentions of confronting ATC when I got back... But by the time I got back I wasn't nearly as upset and the controller didn't seem to be holding a grunge and that was the end of it. If I had tried to argue it could have escalated very easily and at the end all I would be able to do is pat myself on the back and tell myself that "I was right".
sounds like the one plane who chimed in enjoyed. sounds like it buoyed the mood in the cockpit. dont want to have depressed pilots. we will need a study to see if this was in fact invigorating to the listeners and increased their job engagement at the time.
Anyone who has done any FAA ground school will recognise this as Anti-Authority
I believe we all did.
In the Advanced Ground Instructor training and written exam -- the personality traits including this were covered. Anti-Authority is a good way to get someone killed. There is another video here of a Centurion pilot busting Las Vegas Class B and basically told ATC everything up to but short of "Go F#%k Yourself". His kid was sick in the back seat behind him, apparently however no emergency was declared and he did not have an IFR clearance nor flight plan into McCarren (which would have solved everything from the get-go). Commercial rated pilot but flying under VFR ; apparently forgot that Class B means stay out until cleared by ATC to enter!
@@pittiuomo123 Right. Like 99% of the people here are pilots.
@@ra2186 Yes, I'd imagine most of the viewers on an ATC video would be Pilots or ATC.
I never ever in the last 5 years had to laugh so unexpectedly and hard, like when he said, due to you hahahaha
lol "76G, we're just finishing our popcorn" XD best thing I heard
CFI of 76G here. Too bad i didn't actually have any. Thank you for your support and hope you have a wonderful day!
4:00 "full stop, taxi back due to .. er... due to you!" LOL WTF! Instructor was laughing in his response as well. Proper comedy.
Due to, well who you are as a person… 🤣
I bet ATC has better chances to explain himself later that he meant "due to unsafe behavior of instructor and him ignoring the rules of what should be transmitted to frequency and the fact that his flood was placing in danger others as well (there were clearly a few overlapping attempts on the frequency to vector other planes). While I doubt that instructor would have some reasonable basis for his flood.
Although there definitely something going between those two beyond the chat we hear here. I bet any other ATC would just immediately drop him a number to call much earlier than that.
While the Instructor was absolutely in the wrong, so wat the tower. When the tower got into the argument with the instructor, the tower lost control of the situation. He should have said after the second exchange, "We're not continuing this over the radio. Please let me know when you have pen and paper to copy a number down." That's it.
"possible pilot deviation" Seriously? This guy needs to have his medical pulled!
I remember very vividly the first time I flew in Miami airspace. Seneca II. We crossed the Caribbean and entered the USA at FXE. After the mandatory stroll by Banyan’s FBO we set up everything for the plane’s final stop, HWO North Perry. The attendant at Banyan was a pilot himself and gave us a couple of tips for the short hop to HWO. We came into FXE IFR so we were guided by ATC on the way in. We decided to make the hop VFR. I. Was. Amazed. Everything on the flight happened so fast and the amount of traffic was so crazy I didn’t feel like I had time to look at the chart on my iPad.
We leveled at 1000’ on the departure downwind behind a Skyhawk Which I swear I could have read it’s tail number if I tried. Probably we had a line of planes behind us at a similar separation… then we turned south to follow the city grid until we were supposed to be abeam North Perry. Not gonna lie we overshot the airport completely and almost got into Opa-Locka but ATC quickly gave us a hand and redirected us towards the airport. Being in the soup for the first time really did change my perspective on my own skills and that short flight replays like a tape on my mind very, very often.
On the ground taxiing to Bobby’s there was some guy on the radios making his date? Girlfriend? Have a go at the radios. She couldn’t stop laughing and GND just transmitted “are you flying with a comedian or something?” Lol
Gotta love Florida I’m looking forward to going back to the states, nothing like it…
Best part about FLL/MIA is how close you are to the United States. Can confirm.
@@Minijuice24 Underrated comment.
Deal with it on the ground. I may not have flown as many hours as most pilots, but I spent a decade working for three different airlines in Alaska on the ground. Sometimes an emergency call is only a few seconds or a broken snippet (speaking from personal experience listening to a friend fly into a mountain) and this kind of BS would have caused the transmission to be lost. As a student or instructor, take the correction and deal with it. As a controller, don't let your ego dictate your behavior. A much more experienced pilot once told me "You can be right, but you can also be DEAD right......."
Arguing over the radio and stepping on other aircraft? Unacceptable. If there’s a dispute, settle it on the ground.
You mean jiu-jitsu?
@@ElephantRage sure
Unacceptable, CFI literally started so much out of a small complaint
I couldn't even finish listening to this. Too painful.
The instructor's response should have been a very unemphatic, "Roger."
Exactly years from now we will hear some story about him piloting and causing a collision
This ATC facility has one of the most HELPFUL human beings in the planet. Specially for the amount of student pilots and the surroundings of the airport. My hats off to KHWO TOWER.
If I was the student, I would have terminated the flight and refused to fly with this instructor ever again. Unacceptable and unsafe.
"Full stop and taxi back due to ah... due to you." Tower, you spoke for everyone when you said that
My father was an ATCO at the airfield my mother flew from as a commercial pilot. Even they would NOT argue that much on the frequency, though my father sometimes didn´t get a warm meal in the evening if he vectored my mum as number 2 or 3....
Just for my own sanity I'm gonna assume that this flight instructor was off his meds. And the tower went into it knowing full well this was what was going to happen.
"76G, Roger, we're just finishing our popcorn" 🤣🤣🤣
CFI of 76G here. Sometimes i speak without totally thinking and it bites me in the buns sometimes. Glad i could make you laugh and thank you for the support.
Finally gave him a deviation at the end, he earned that one. This is a great teaching tool for students on how not to behave on frequency.
I wonder if he did a touch and go after being asked for full stop multiple times. I think that might be what the deviation call was about.
So with the "possible deviation" recorded - someone has to review it other than those involved, correct?
I can’t believe he didn’t give the “possible pilot deviation” spiel earlier, immediately after the FI tried to complain about the other plane.
If I was any other pilot in the pattern that day I would file a complaint on both of them.
I hope several did.
Doubt the pilot who was finishing his popcorn would. Sounded like he was enjoying it. 😁😁
Billy bad ass over here 🙄
I honestly felt bad causing the issue in the first place, didn't know he would go off like this XD@@mikejohnson55281
WTF?!? How is it possible to keep arguing so long on a tower frequency?? Incredible.
We've reached levels of heterodyne previously unheard of...
Seriously, this is ridiculous. ATC should've shut the argument down immediately. The pilot is being an absolute jackass, but ATC is feeding into it and exacerbating the issue as well.
100% agree
He really pulled off the "how do I know you're actually the tower", lol.
These are the people in charge of your lives at 600 MPH.
Florida’s finest humans
Both parties are absolutely in the wrong for arguing on the frequency. There were plenty of times that they were stepping on other pilots as they tried to transmit. Imagine a Mayday going out while they are bickering.
True. This argument could easily happen on the ground. ATC could politely ask him to come talk.
Uhh well if a mayday goes out I garuantee both will drop whatever they are arguing about immediately... whats your point?
@Tarik St Patrick there was one time, but I think they were just stepping on each other
This is 100% the instructors fault, ATC just relayed a complaint to him from another pilot and the instructor took it personally.
@Tarik St Patrick I dunno, it sounded like there were at least two times to me. As the controller might say, that's two too many...
“The other aircraft is complaining about your complaint so don’t overshoot the runway”
*intense screaming noise on frequency*
“97 Gulf, Rodger, we’re just finishing our popcorn” fucking golden
CFI of 76G here, Glad I could give you a chuckle. Thank you for your support
This instructor, is the answer to the question, 'what is a narcissist'.
This has gone way past the point of: "N1393U I have a number for you to copy. Stop tying up the frequency with your arguing."
And this is both a pilot and controller issue. Both need a controller supervisor to talk to them.
the controller did order him politely to stop, its the pilot who wasn't stopping and kept bringing it up
I learned to fly at this airport many years ago. Controllers were known for screaming at everyone and on a short fuse 24/7 (or during operating hours for those of you). I flew here for 2 years, and it was the most unpleasant airport I ever flew in. With that out of the way, I'm lucky that I never once deviated, never once got yelled at, and never once argued with anyone over radios. It's a busy airport with 4 runways and a lot of flight schools and a lot of congestion for C,B,D airspace in the immediate vicinity. Nonsterile chatter is unacceptable in this environment. I heard a lot of yelling from ground/tower to pilots all the time though. I honestly believe both parties were wrong to extend this argument, but as a PILOT myself, I would never argue with a controller in such a manner, or argue at ALL. That was not intelligent at all. From the controller side, he should have shut down that argument way sooner.
I also learned to fly at this airport, ATA Flight School, and I never had a bad experience with any of the controllers there, when I screwed up, which I don't believe you never did, they just did their job and told me, I just never took it personally, learned from it and moved on. Controllers are responsible for safety in their airspace, and if someone needs to be yelled at when putting everyone at risk, then so be it.
Sounds like the WalMart of airports.
@@VNCoops333 Clean up on Runway two please.
I soloed there twice and i got chastised once for calling too many times when waiting to take off, but they were very helpful the same day when i overheated & was blocked in on the taxiway. I don't think their curtness is out of malice, rather, everything is tight and rather dangerous, especially with people like this clown and the people at Wayman. Miami App/Dep is similar.
The controller never screamed at anyone in this clip.
Well _THAT_ was an accident waiting to happen! Arguing here on the ground is bad enough, but in the air? That is completely incomprehensible.
Overshooting base leg at an airport with parallel runways is a major hazard. Not too long ago a Cirrus had a mid-air with a Metroliner; thankfully the Cirrus was able to evolve to it's final and inevitable form and land under parachute, and the San Antonio Sewerpipe full of freight was landed safely without the pilot even becoming aware that another plane had quite literally flown through his. Most any other plane than that old Fairchild would've lost its tail and gone down hard.
I recall waiting to turn onto the runway, but a plane was approaching. the tower was having a protracted conversation with another airplane, something like this one. The plane on the approach was an amphibian and his wheels were up. I was trying to call a warning, but could not get through the chatter. Chatter is dangerous.
I guess in such a situation I might declare an emergency to try and clear the airwaves, then tell the approaching plane to go around. Explanations could wait until later.
Landing without gear deployed = peoples' health or even lives at stake = emergency. Simple as that.
@@CLipka2373 Good idea. Mayday! would probably stop the chatter.
That instructor sounds like he's one of those people who only admit fault if they think it was a problem.
I once had an employer who was like that.
Dangerous attitude to have in aviation - and really anywhere human lives are at stake.