I see at least some emergences as stemming from exponentials. For instance, the structure of the Earth and similarly sized objects is very different to the structure of asteroids the size of an orange. Likewise, emergent dynamics occur in cities of millions as compared with tribes numbered in dozens. It's seemingly the same with consciousness, and presumably for the same reason, a critical level of interconnections. An exponential jump does not mean so much that something entirely new has been created, but something already in existence has gained extra properties. An extrapolation of pre-existing phenomena. Consciousness presumably was preceded by reflexes - complex mindless responses. So consciousness can be thought of as suites of reflexes that are so complex, that stable feedback loops formed, allowing overarching reflexes to act on the many suites of reflex actions themselves, thus shaping responses. For example, if you are in danger, you might experience a stress response. If you gather your courage, your overarching survival instinct can temper those stress responses, allowing for more controlled action (that may well rely on well-practised muscle memory and/or neural pathways).
What is the difference between a landscape and a painting of a landscape? Why are some configurations perceived as whole and others as partial? That is key to both aesthetic satisfaction and hence judgement. So we need to define our terms. Otherwise aesthetic cognition is just gobbledegook.
A rock exists, does it not? Yet as far as we know, it has no subjective consciousness. When you die, you cease to exist. The matter which makes up your body will still exist, less subjective consciousness. So, consequently, and for give me, I miss entirely, your point.
Still we do not know anything about conciousness , few scientists say it's a illusion but then the question arises who's illusion? Yes , who's illusion? On the otherhand if our free will is just our neural firings then why do we believe this statement that we are nothing but a metrial object? Because it means it is determined to determined!
@@PetraKann Art is things about other things, meaningful, whereas physical properties are only about the objects displaying them. The process of reducing whole objects to component parts discards meanings. Physical theories can't explain art because meanings are deemed unimportant by their reductive method. This flaw in science is related to the problem in mathematics shown by Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems. Explaining reality with a semantic theory avoids this problem by inverting the reduction by treating everything as concepts and reducing detailed parts to abstract wholes. This way objects are symbols of meanings, and meanings are structured in a hierarchy with the absolute truth as the root.
@@cosminvisan520 Consciousness has not even been defined yet Mr Visa. I would start with a definition before even dreaming about putting anything down on paper.
@@mazolab It's not necessary for every piece of art to be meaningful. The fact that any artwork, books, songs, dances, maps, etc., can represent other objects or events defies explanation by physical theory. Instead of trying to reduce concepts to things, meanings can be preserved in a semantic theory by treating things as detailed concepts and reducing them to abstract concepts. This approach is necessary because the definitions of things include abstract concepts, which must therefore be more fundamental.
@@PetraKann The Vedas essentially define consciousness as the ability to choose an object or function. It's "sat" in sat-cit-ānanda, with the various types of objects and activities in cit, and the motivations to choose in ānanda.
One can have “meaning” in life but that has nothing to do with your life having a purpose. Because it doesn’t. We are here by mere chance. Forget the entire theory of the multiverse and eternal inflation, just know that if you were to roll the dice once again beginning with the extinction event 65 million years ago, there would be an entirely different variety of species habitat in Earth that wouldn’t include us. That is a fact.
@@frankkockritz5441 interesting view... My teacher, Jiddu Krishnamurti who I found when I was 12 years old says this; "Die to everything of yesterday so that your mind is always fresh, always young, innocent and full of passion." Also he declared "In oneself lies the whole world and if you know how to look and learn the door is there and the key is in your hand. Nobody on earth can or the door to open except yourself." Have a good day....
@@reaganmcguire3463 also interesting, however, not sure how a person can or even wants to diminish subjective memories of their past life. Each passing moment can and does live in the past, referred to as a Block Universe. So as you can determine I am a materialist, not because I necessarily want to be, but everything I have learned, studied, experienced tells me it’s our reality. Yes, nihilism is somewhat depressing for its inevitable ending, but I have experienced happiness, love and satisfaction ( the “ meaning” part). Take care
@@frankkockritz5441 From my perspective, dying to the past, as he refers to it, doesn't mean not having a past but merely being fully engaged in the present. The mental processes that constantly occupy our mind, which is thought, block us from living in the present.... have a great day.
@@reaganmcguire3463 of course I get it. Enjoy the moment. So what? It’s still all comes to an end and sorry, just as you consciously aware that the sun sets this evening, that realization is also a reality that any thinking human cannot cover up. If you can, then indeed, congrats is in order. I mean that sincerely.
The point to which you are attempting to make, would suggest on its face value, to appear in nature to be ape like. Thus, just what is your point, if not pointless to human intellect?
don’t interfere in what you don't understand! it is about thieves have stolen what I have written before on this TH-cam channel, it was a message intended future generations, it is essential for them to survive. It's my responsibility to help, warn and protect my kind, Idid my best but I have to admit that the sick irrational thief apes have won as usual, congratulations, no surprise, it is already the planet of the apes, they speak the same language . running after thief apes was a very bad idea., I had to in hope to keep my messages clean not polluted by the defective logic of the thief apes but of no avail. I don’t get any benefits from all that it’s only cause more suffering because of principles and values those don’t work among the thief apes.
This was a great conversation.
I see at least some emergences as stemming from exponentials. For instance, the structure of the Earth and similarly sized objects is very different to the structure of asteroids the size of an orange. Likewise, emergent dynamics occur in cities of millions as compared with tribes numbered in dozens. It's seemingly the same with consciousness, and presumably for the same reason, a critical level of interconnections.
An exponential jump does not mean so much that something entirely new has been created, but something already in existence has gained extra properties. An extrapolation of pre-existing phenomena. Consciousness presumably was preceded by reflexes - complex mindless responses. So consciousness can be thought of as suites of reflexes that are so complex, that stable feedback loops formed, allowing overarching reflexes to act on the many suites of reflex actions themselves, thus shaping responses.
For example, if you are in danger, you might experience a stress response. If you gather your courage, your overarching survival instinct can temper those stress responses, allowing for more controlled action (that may well rely on well-practised muscle memory and/or neural pathways).
What is the difference between a landscape and a painting of a landscape? Why are some configurations perceived as whole and others as partial? That is key to both aesthetic satisfaction and hence judgement. So we need to define our terms. Otherwise aesthetic cognition is just gobbledegook.
Principles and values among apes, what an idea !
What is the name of his book that they are referring to?
Advaita vedanta says that consciousness=existence, and is a pure subject that gives existence to all objects,space and time.
A rock exists, does it not? Yet as far as we know, it has no subjective consciousness. When you die, you cease to exist. The matter which makes up your body will still exist, less subjective consciousness. So, consequently, and for give me, I miss entirely, your point.
Don't let other people define reality for you ;)
You don’t have a girlfriend.
might aesthetic cognitivism and art be experiencing energy inside the brain and externally in the environment?
What do you mean?
Huh?
So strange!
I knew that from the beginning but how to send a message to future generations without being passed through the thief apes!
It is a real Dilemma.
The irrational senile is a new thief for sure! running after the thief apes is a very hard work! Unbelievable!
That accent and long history of theft and living on the tragedy of others.
It is a culture.
Still we do not know anything about conciousness , few scientists say it's a illusion but then the question arises who's illusion? Yes , who's illusion? On the otherhand if our free will is just our neural firings then why do we believe this statement that we are nothing but a metrial object? Because it means it is determined to determined!
th-cam.com/video/uh6_TeQB5Aw/w-d-xo.html
Guys determinism m
Keep out reality sense show absurd hipotesy. Lack Science standard his concept NEVER picuret reality though conscieness.
@@maxwellsimoes238 there is plenty of science behid ALL THIS MAXWELL 👨⚖️
Art can't be explained by physical theories. Art is possible because reality is semantic.
What do you mean?
@@PetraKann Art is things about other things, meaningful, whereas physical properties are only about the objects displaying them. The process of reducing whole objects to component parts discards meanings. Physical theories can't explain art because meanings are deemed unimportant by their reductive method. This flaw in science is related to the problem in mathematics shown by Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems.
Explaining reality with a semantic theory avoids this problem by inverting the reduction by treating everything as concepts and reducing detailed parts to abstract wholes. This way objects are symbols of meanings, and meanings are structured in a hierarchy with the absolute truth as the root.
@@cosminvisan520 Consciousness has not even been defined yet Mr Visa.
I would start with a definition before even dreaming about putting anything down on paper.
@@mazolab It's not necessary for every piece of art to be meaningful. The fact that any artwork, books, songs, dances, maps, etc., can represent other objects or events defies explanation by physical theory. Instead of trying to reduce concepts to things, meanings can be preserved in a semantic theory by treating things as detailed concepts and reducing them to abstract concepts. This approach is necessary because the definitions of things include abstract concepts, which must therefore be more fundamental.
@@PetraKann The Vedas essentially define consciousness as the ability to choose an object or function. It's "sat" in sat-cit-ānanda, with the various types of objects and activities in cit, and the motivations to choose in ānanda.
It is a real punishment being imprisoned among the apes!
double punishment!
The meaning of life is not as important as being alive in this world
One can have “meaning” in life but that has nothing to do with your life having a purpose. Because it doesn’t. We are here by mere chance. Forget the entire theory of the multiverse and eternal inflation, just know that if you were to roll the dice once again beginning with the extinction event 65 million years ago, there would be an entirely different variety of species habitat in Earth that wouldn’t include us. That is a fact.
@@frankkockritz5441 interesting view... My teacher, Jiddu Krishnamurti who I found when I was 12 years old says this; "Die to everything of yesterday so that your mind is always fresh, always young, innocent and full of passion." Also he declared "In oneself lies the whole world and if you know how to look and learn the door is there and the key is in your hand. Nobody on earth can or the door to open except yourself." Have a good day....
@@reaganmcguire3463 also interesting, however, not sure how a person can or even wants to diminish subjective memories of their past life. Each passing moment can and does live in the past, referred to as a Block Universe. So as you can determine I am a materialist, not because I necessarily want to be, but everything I have learned, studied, experienced tells me it’s our reality. Yes, nihilism is somewhat depressing for its inevitable ending, but I have experienced happiness, love and satisfaction ( the “ meaning” part). Take care
@@frankkockritz5441 From my perspective, dying to the past, as he refers to it, doesn't mean not having a past but merely being fully engaged in the present. The mental processes that constantly occupy our mind, which is thought, block us from living in the present.... have a great day.
@@reaganmcguire3463 of course I get it. Enjoy the moment. So what? It’s still all comes to an end and sorry, just as you consciously aware that the sun sets this evening, that realization is also a reality that any thinking human cannot cover up. If you can, then indeed, congrats is in order. I mean that sincerely.
Yeah sure, most of the thieves speak a specific accent!
So strange! Human thoughts polluted with the defective logic of the apes, the result is something so ugly!
Apes are just an apes, it is useless to argue with apes.
The point to which you are attempting to make, would suggest on its face value, to appear in nature to be ape like. Thus, just what is your point, if not pointless to human intellect?
don’t interfere in what you don't understand!
it is about thieves have stolen what I have written before on this TH-cam channel, it was a message intended future generations, it is essential for them to survive.
It's my responsibility to help, warn and protect my kind, Idid my best but I have to admit that the sick irrational thief apes have won as usual, congratulations, no surprise, it is already the planet of the apes, they speak the same language .
running after thief apes was a very bad idea., I had to in hope to keep my messages clean not polluted by the defective logic of the thief apes but of no avail. I don’t get any benefits from all that it’s only cause more suffering because of principles and values those don’t work among the thief apes.
Humans are an advanced species of apes