due to this being the final episode of strixhaven, I think they pretty much assume most viewers know all the cards by now. but ya I agree a quick flash of a card they talk about would be a nice touch
@@TP_Gillz You can know the cards (like what they do) but struggle to remember their names. With friends we often refer to cards as "that green 4/5 with trample" for example.
I wish there would have been more talk about mystical archive, kept the format alive for far longer than I thought I would enjoy it. Cards like tendrils and approach were fantastic to experiment with in a format like this
They added some bullshit RNG to draft which shouldn't have more variance. In sealed, whatever, they even kind of reduce the variance as people get more rares so you're less likely to be stuck with 4 trash rares
I'm enjoying relistening to these in preparation for the set coming up again in quick draft, and finding I'm understanding certain points a lot better having grown in my game.
Wish the Mystical Archives got discussed more since it was such an interesting addition to Limited. I mean when's the last time we got to cast Bolt or Swords in draft? I wouldn't mind if there was a Mystical Archive in EVERY set for Limited tbh. Great way to spice up the format without breaking Standard.
On Strixhaven, I really enjoyed this set. I think one of the best things about this set was that it had a competitive BO3 event on arena. Playing in that event really confirmed for me how much more I enjoy having access to sideboard strategies and being able to play around things. I also got to play against LSV in one of those events and that was really cool. Overall agree with their assessment of the format and hope we get more traditional competitive events in the future.
On the D&D die rolling thing. When they add stuff like that to magic I tend to hate it. The flavor of this though I think will bring me a lot of joy. I may not enjoy it if any of the die roll cards are good enough for constructed and this may not end up being my favorite limited set to grind. But getting to play magic with some old D&D friends, relive those memories, and maybe finally get to play the game again is awesome. So if I have to hang up the limited Spike hat for a set but my friends get to enjoy magic more I think that's cool.
Hm, I feel like some of my strongest decks were witherbloom, although that may be because you could easily splash some quandrix, and witherbloom build-arounds were often tabling.
@@rudiboyrip Arena on Android isn't a complete port. IIRC you also don't have the 'hold to float mana' button ("W" by default on PC, I think) and 'float all' ("W" + "W")
Crackle with Power is easily the biggest groaner in the set. What’s that? You’re opponent is hellbent and has an empty board? Oh look, they just ripped a 15 damage burn spell off the top. GG
I drafted an absolutely DISGUSTING deck with both crackle and Urza's rage, as well as an incredibly streamlined curve and the flying 2/4 that reduces costs... Plus two of the 2/2 flyers that reduce cost by 1... My opponents definitely groaned for sure. It was the only run in with the card I had thankfully, but I was the one casting it. And I for sure cast it for 15 at least twice. Killing their two giant creatures AND them is pretty satisfying...
I had the same Harness Infinity experience as LSV. Went 7-x with it in the arena open (which was sealed so obv makes a huge difference) and proceeded to get stomped every time I tried it after.
Is lore hold bad because they decided to split the resources between spirits and exiling spells from graveyard. Would it have been better if they focused on one of the two themes
I think Lorehold was bad ultimately because the common Learn cards in red and white didn't supplement the strategy at all. Study Break and Guiding Voice are more aggro-leaning, and Enthusiastic Study is pretty much a beatdown-only card. First Day of Class also pushed you toward aggression, but it really wasn't good anyway. So in order to execute the Lorehold game plan properly, you had to basically give up on Lesson/Learn, which turned out to be such a powerful and (more importantly, IMO) *reliable* mechanic that Lorehold was sort of in no-man's land.
Why is Relic Sloth, a GOLD 5 mana card, just a 4/4 with random keywords? Why is LOREHOLD pledgemage a random 2/2 first strike? Why is Ageless Guardian a 1/4 VANILLA? Did they really expect people to play Excavated Wall so they could enable their "payoff" of dealing 1 damage to opponent and scrying 1? Is it really surprising their interesting complex mechanic failed when they wasted slots on cards that do LITERALLY NOTHING.
i had a deck with vortex runner and echoing equation and i got there in two games (turning all my creatures in unblockable 3/3) so that probably made me like vortex runner...
I had one draft deck and one draft deck only where I put Excavated Wall in. It was a 2 of and they shined b/c P1p1 was Approach of the Second Sun. P1p2 Professor Onyx. P1p3 Tainted Pact. It was sweet.
Also MaRo has said they pretty much divvied up everything these is flavorwise to the top down college/school space in the 5 guilds. There's no second set of guilds to fill with the flavor. I don't expect Marshall and Luis to pay that much attention to what Wizards communicates about the design of the sets, but flavorwise I thought this is the most fundamental thing about the set.
I felt like there were some ways in which this set was filling out the missing colours from Dragons of Tarkir. I guess that set didn't have the same design concept for how the colours interacted in the pairing, but it was the missing ones from here and it did have the other half of the elder dragons.
i feel like most than any other set lately, there has been a lot of polarization on "what colors are good" conversation, here is talked that Lorehold and Witherbloom were the worst... but in other parts is considered Silverquill the worst, and Lorehold a windmill slam. i think no one is wrong here tbh, the set is swingy if you get or not a synergistic deck, and all of the color pairs were able to create a good deck.
I understand the notion that magic is already a high variance game. However, the choices you make with the cards that you have drawn are deterministic. I dont like variance in choices that I have made. These hard choices (your range of options is (mostly) random, but your choices are not) are what makes magic stand out from attention grabbing hearthstone clones IMO. I hope this mechanic will be an isolated incident.
If you look at the cards, aside from the intentionally poorly priced mythicd, all of the D20 allow plenty of strategic room, and none of them are "gotchas".
@@AvalonisHere It's true that the mythic is by far the worst offender but I don't like dice rolling in magic AFTER you've chosen to pay for the effect.
My biggest issue with Strixhaven is the same as with Kaldheim before it: there was basically one actually strong deck and one more decent deck, and everything else you could try to do sucked. If I'm just going to end up Temur every time, that takes out most of the fun of drafting for me.
But BW is better than do nothing temur decks edit: and aggro was the best khm archetype. Snow was a trap unless you got passed the bomb uncos like path to the world tree.
Actually one strong deck and you picked the decent one :D Jokes aside, i think it was possible to win with waaaaay more than only temur, and many good players showed that consistently! I would say that silverquill was the laser focused deck, temur piles on the other hand were kinda durdly but had the craziest mid to lategame BUT there's a lot inbetween :)
Exactly. Marshall, if you're fine drafting the same decks for three months, good for you, but for everybody else this format was more in the B-/C+ range.
Not really true of Strixhaven either but even less true of Kaldheim. RW, 5C/4C Snow, and UR Giants were all tier 1 decks, and then basically every archetype with green in it was at least decent or better. I know LR decided that Selesnya was weak for some reason but it was one of the most consistent archetypes in the format.
Let's not be silly and display some Magic Player Syndrome here, Simic and all the other guilds still are what they are and have not been "replaced" or anything like that. Simic and Quandrix can both exist in the Magic multiverse. It's not like Quandrix erased Simic and those with Simic tattoos are suddenly invalidated or something. They both exist. It's especially bizarre to hear this because there have been faction sets before and after Ravnica, not even counting Strixhaven. We didn't suddenly refer to "Selesnya" as "Dromoka" once Dragons Of Tarkir came out even though they both are the same two color combo. In fact, not only do all these factions still exist within Magic lore-wise, obviously it doesn't make any sense to replace the previous faction names as slang terms for Magic players either. Quandrix coming along does not mean that we all suddenly stop using "Simic" as the slang name for Green + Blue. That's the accepted terminology. Why would we change it now? We didn't before. I don't want to lay it on too thick and I do not intend to be mean, but this is seriously silly and nonsensical and it feels like we're always fighting against strange lack of logic all the time in the Magic community.
I like the die-rolling on big splashy cards like Treasure Chest and Spellbook, but having it on commons makes me unhappy. I'm getting Knife Juggler flashbacks 😢
You absolutely shouldn't be. Knife Juggler was problemagic because the difference between pinging a creature and face was often gamewinning because of hearthstone's cumulative damage and massive snowballiness. The common/uncommon d20 cards are all "Get an effect, OR a slightly better version of the effect." They never "getcha" like Knife Juggler could.
@@AvalonisHere on second thought, they're not as bad as I thought. Knife Juggler was awful because the difference between "kill an x/1 creature" and "do 1 damage to your opponent" is so huge. That said, there are going to be a lot of situations where rolling high wins the game. A lot of effects are "do something, or do something and draw a card." E.g., the troll that either goes to your hand or the top of your deck, the red guy who exiles one or two cards, the spell that's draw 2 cards or scry 2 draw 2. This'll be especially obvious when you're holding burn and your opponent drains for 2 instead of just dealing 2, or gains 2 life instead of 1. Basically, I was overreacting. It will still come up, just a hell of a lot less than with juggler.
dont let Luis and Marshal's expert analysis divert you from the extrordinary pimple that Luis has in his cheek.. oh man i coudnt stop looking it :) :) :)
I don't like Strixhaven. I enjoyed it for the first 10, 15, maybe 20 drafts but it started to feel very same'y after that. Witherbloom and Lorehold were huge fails, Prismari too to an extent (as a separate deck). Lessons were a great idea with absolutely terrible execution. Making all of the common ones colorless/hybrid was a design failure that made all decks similar to one another.
I enjoyed the episode, but would love to see more of the cards on the overlay as I only recognized the name of about 70% of the cards
due to this being the final episode of strixhaven, I think they pretty much assume most viewers know all the cards by now. but ya I agree a quick flash of a card they talk about would be a nice touch
not to mention it is not super easy to regonize card names when you are not native speaker
@@TP_Gillz You can know the cards (like what they do) but struggle to remember their names. With friends we often refer to cards as "that green 4/5 with trample" for example.
46:30 "Biggest Blank / Most Last Picked" has to go to Dragon's Approach right? That might as well have been an Uno card in the packs. 😛
certainly the card I last picked the most
I wish there would have been more talk about mystical archive, kept the format alive for far longer than I thought I would enjoy it. Cards like tendrils and approach were fantastic to experiment with in a format like this
They added some bullshit RNG to draft which shouldn't have more variance.
In sealed, whatever, they even kind of reduce the variance as people get more rares so you're less likely to be stuck with 4 trash rares
i agree, i think mystical archive was one of the most innovative things in the set
I'm enjoying relistening to these in preparation for the set coming up again in quick draft, and finding I'm understanding certain points a lot better having grown in my game.
Wish the Mystical Archives got discussed more since it was such an interesting addition to Limited. I mean when's the last time we got to cast Bolt or Swords in draft?
I wouldn't mind if there was a Mystical Archive in EVERY set for Limited tbh. Great way to spice up the format without breaking Standard.
On Strixhaven, I really enjoyed this set. I think one of the best things about this set was that it had a competitive BO3 event on arena. Playing in that event really confirmed for me how much more I enjoy having access to sideboard strategies and being able to play around things. I also got to play against LSV in one of those events and that was really cool. Overall agree with their assessment of the format and hope we get more traditional competitive events in the future.
Would have like to hear more about Mystical Archive. To me it was che cherry on top on an already great format
Agreed! those cards made this set so much more fun than I was expecting!
LSV telling it how it is
You should describe or visually show the cards when you talk about them, please
On the D&D die rolling thing. When they add stuff like that to magic I tend to hate it. The flavor of this though I think will bring me a lot of joy. I may not enjoy it if any of the die roll cards are good enough for constructed and this may not end up being my favorite limited set to grind. But getting to play magic with some old D&D friends, relive those memories, and maybe finally get to play the game again is awesome. So if I have to hang up the limited Spike hat for a set but my friends get to enjoy magic more I think that's cool.
Marshall did Tom ever tell you which card he designed that made it into Modern Horizons 2?????
Mmm love the shade LSV is throwing WotC's way. Keep it coming.
Hm, I feel like some of my strongest decks were witherbloom, although that may be because you could easily splash some quandrix, and witherbloom build-arounds were often tabling.
Is there a reason not to have a true auto pass button on arena? It gets really tiring clicking resolve against certain decks... plus the tells
Shift + enter?
I'm on android phone. The auto pass still forces me to click resolve when a spell is cast or an ability is triggered
@@rudiboyrip Arena on Android isn't a complete port. IIRC you also don't have the 'hold to float mana' button ("W" by default on PC, I think) and 'float all' ("W" + "W")
Crackle with Power is easily the biggest groaner in the set.
What’s that? You’re opponent is hellbent and has an empty board? Oh look, they just ripped a 15 damage burn spell off the top. GG
I drafted an absolutely DISGUSTING deck with both crackle and Urza's rage, as well as an incredibly streamlined curve and the flying 2/4 that reduces costs... Plus two of the 2/2 flyers that reduce cost by 1...
My opponents definitely groaned for sure. It was the only run in with the card I had thankfully, but I was the one casting it. And I for sure cast it for 15 at least twice. Killing their two giant creatures AND them is pretty satisfying...
35:15 17lands tracks how many you drafted of each card
17 lands tracks your most drafted cards, Marshall.
I spit my coffee with the Lorehold apprentice comment, it felt like it was randomly generated, really weird text that I’ve never saw being used
I had the same Harness Infinity experience as LSV. Went 7-x with it in the arena open (which was sealed so obv makes a huge difference) and proceeded to get stomped every time I tried it after.
Luis looking good in the yellow hoodie and fresh cut
I thought I'd hate this format cuz I thought the flavor was wack. But I must admit, it was one of the most fun limited formats I've ever played!
Doesn't 17 lands track your most drafted cards? You can check there for letter lol.
Is lore hold bad because they decided to split the resources between spirits and exiling spells from graveyard. Would it have been better if they focused on one of the two themes
I think Lorehold was bad ultimately because the common Learn cards in red and white didn't supplement the strategy at all. Study Break and Guiding Voice are more aggro-leaning, and Enthusiastic Study is pretty much a beatdown-only card. First Day of Class also pushed you toward aggression, but it really wasn't good anyway.
So in order to execute the Lorehold game plan properly, you had to basically give up on Lesson/Learn, which turned out to be such a powerful and (more importantly, IMO) *reliable* mechanic that Lorehold was sort of in no-man's land.
Why is Relic Sloth, a GOLD 5 mana card, just a 4/4 with random keywords? Why is LOREHOLD pledgemage a random 2/2 first strike? Why is Ageless Guardian a 1/4 VANILLA? Did they really expect people to play Excavated Wall so they could enable their "payoff" of dealing 1 damage to opponent and scrying 1? Is it really surprising their interesting complex mechanic failed when they wasted slots on cards that do LITERALLY NOTHING.
I never got draft channel and book wurm :(
i had a deck with vortex runner and echoing equation and i got there in two games (turning all my creatures in unblockable 3/3) so that probably made me like vortex runner...
Sad I never got to open mascots exhibition after hearing you guys rave and rants about it so much
I had one draft deck and one draft deck only where I put Excavated Wall in. It was a 2 of and they shined b/c P1p1 was Approach of the Second Sun. P1p2 Professor Onyx. P1p3 Tainted Pact. It was sweet.
They don't need to make allied coloured colleges, as strixhaven completed the cycle of Dragons of Tarkir clans with elder dragons and commands...
Also MaRo has said they pretty much divvied up everything these is flavorwise to the top down college/school space in the 5 guilds. There's no second set of guilds to fill with the flavor. I don't expect Marshall and Luis to pay that much attention to what Wizards communicates about the design of the sets, but flavorwise I thought this is the most fundamental thing about the set.
I think it is more likely they do an allied color “guild” set in a different flavor/theme
I felt like there were some ways in which this set was filling out the missing colours from Dragons of Tarkir. I guess that set didn't have the same design concept for how the colours interacted in the pairing, but it was the missing ones from here and it did have the other half of the elder dragons.
Did you guys ever mention the 3-4 color control decks because I got 7 wins like every 2nd draft.
i feel like most than any other set lately, there has been a lot of polarization on "what colors are good" conversation, here is talked that Lorehold and Witherbloom were the worst... but in other parts is considered Silverquill the worst, and Lorehold a windmill slam.
i think no one is wrong here tbh, the set is swingy if you get or not a synergistic deck, and all of the color pairs were able to create a good deck.
All the colorless lesson cards made this format incredibly repetitive IMO
I understand the notion that magic is already a high variance game. However, the choices you make with the cards that you have drawn are deterministic. I dont like variance in choices that I have made. These hard choices (your range of options is (mostly) random, but your choices are not) are what makes magic stand out from attention grabbing hearthstone clones IMO. I hope this mechanic will be an isolated incident.
If you look at the cards, aside from the intentionally poorly priced mythicd, all of the D20 allow plenty of strategic room, and none of them are "gotchas".
@@AvalonisHere It's true that the mythic is by far the worst offender but I don't like dice rolling in magic AFTER you've chosen to pay for the effect.
My biggest issue with Strixhaven is the same as with Kaldheim before it: there was basically one actually strong deck and one more decent deck, and everything else you could try to do sucked. If I'm just going to end up Temur every time, that takes out most of the fun of drafting for me.
But BW is better than do nothing temur decks
edit: and aggro was the best khm archetype. Snow was a trap unless you got passed the bomb uncos like path to the world tree.
Actually one strong deck and you picked the decent one :D
Jokes aside, i think it was possible to win with waaaaay more than only temur, and many good players showed that consistently!
I would say that silverquill was the laser focused deck, temur piles on the other hand were kinda durdly but had the craziest mid to lategame BUT there's a lot inbetween :)
Exactly. Marshall, if you're fine drafting the same decks for three months, good for you, but for everybody else this format was more in the B-/C+ range.
Not really true of Strixhaven either but even less true of Kaldheim. RW, 5C/4C Snow, and UR Giants were all tier 1 decks, and then basically every archetype with green in it was at least decent or better. I know LR decided that Selesnya was weak for some reason but it was one of the most consistent archetypes in the format.
That's a you issue, not a Stryx issue. Look at Sam Black!
Let's not be silly and display some Magic Player Syndrome here, Simic and all the other guilds still are what they are and have not been "replaced" or anything like that. Simic and Quandrix can both exist in the Magic multiverse. It's not like Quandrix erased Simic and those with Simic tattoos are suddenly invalidated or something. They both exist. It's especially bizarre to hear this because there have been faction sets before and after Ravnica, not even counting Strixhaven. We didn't suddenly refer to "Selesnya" as "Dromoka" once Dragons Of Tarkir came out even though they both are the same two color combo.
In fact, not only do all these factions still exist within Magic lore-wise, obviously it doesn't make any sense to replace the previous faction names as slang terms for Magic players either. Quandrix coming along does not mean that we all suddenly stop using "Simic" as the slang name for Green + Blue. That's the accepted terminology. Why would we change it now? We didn't before. I don't want to lay it on too thick and I do not intend to be mean, but this is seriously silly and nonsensical and it feels like we're always fighting against strange lack of logic all the time in the Magic community.
Marshall, you've gotta look at the camera more, buddy! Address the audience!
I like the die-rolling on big splashy cards like Treasure Chest and Spellbook, but having it on commons makes me unhappy.
I'm getting Knife Juggler flashbacks 😢
You absolutely shouldn't be. Knife Juggler was problemagic because the difference between pinging a creature and face was often gamewinning because of hearthstone's cumulative damage and massive snowballiness.
The common/uncommon d20 cards are all "Get an effect, OR a slightly better version of the effect." They never "getcha" like Knife Juggler could.
@@AvalonisHere on second thought, they're not as bad as I thought. Knife Juggler was awful because the difference between "kill an x/1 creature" and "do 1 damage to your opponent" is so huge.
That said, there are going to be a lot of situations where rolling high wins the game. A lot of effects are "do something, or do something and draw a card." E.g., the troll that either goes to your hand or the top of your deck, the red guy who exiles one or two cards, the spell that's draw 2 cards or scry 2 draw 2.
This'll be especially obvious when you're holding burn and your opponent drains for 2 instead of just dealing 2, or gains 2 life instead of 1.
Basically, I was overreacting. It will still come up, just a hell of a lot less than with juggler.
dont let Luis and Marshal's expert analysis divert you from the extrordinary pimple that Luis has in his cheek.. oh man i coudnt stop looking it :) :) :)
Thats kinda mean. But very fitting for the overweight greasy magic player
I'm not sure how I feel about "The Long Groan" as a phrase having anything to do with Magic....just sayin.
I don't like Strixhaven. I enjoyed it for the first 10, 15, maybe 20 drafts but it started to feel very same'y after that. Witherbloom and Lorehold were huge fails, Prismari too to an extent (as a separate deck). Lessons were a great idea with absolutely terrible execution. Making all of the common ones colorless/hybrid was a design failure that made all decks similar to one another.
Don't tell me to retire. I'll loose on purpose