What Electric Motors Can Be Used In A Go Kart or E Bike; Bench Testing and Recommended Sizing #61
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- I test several motor types to demonstrate which can be used in a Go Kart, electric bike/vehicle application. I show a Washing machine motor, Treadmill motor, scooter and others...
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Notes
1. First video reference to a car starter... (not a recommended motor type. They are designed to run at max for 10-30 seconds not extended periods of time)
• home made electric gok...
2. Second video reference to car alternator
• Converting a Car Alter...
A very well presented Project, but as mentioned above, car alternators aren't designed to be loaded in reverse like that for extended periods of time.
3. The inverter shown is rated at 6000 watts peak, and 3000 continuous according to the paper work. However, this could easily mean 1500 watts per plug. So my first impression in the video is likely wrong.
4. In the US Washing machine motors are usually induction motors, but in other countries they are often universal motors.
5. The Tesla uses a custom three phase AC motor. This type of system cost thousands of dollars to have the right motor, controller, and battery bank to match. There is a reason the Tesla cost so much. This I think is way outside the scope of a backyard go kart project. If you have the budget you can certainly use a AC motor designed for this application. I was focused on Household recycled AC motors when making this video.
6. "Brushless" DC motors are often called AC motors and that is completely appropriate. They are very similar to 3 phase AC motors except the way they are controlled is different. This topic was not covered in this video as I was primarily focused on the question of salvaged motors from household machines like washing machines. But certainly with the correct controller, a Brushless DC motors works with batteries. Many electric karts are powered by this type of motor.
Technical Corrections...
In the video I say "three phase DC" but It is more appropriate to call it a AC motor when referring to "phases". At the time I was thinking in terms of the way the guy was using the alternator. He was controlling it with a Brushless DC controller.
30 kph is 18.6 mph
Someone in the comments suggested that the 3000 watts limit might be 1500 watts per outlet. This is not in the manual anywhere, and when I opened the inverter, both outlets are soldiered to the same pins. If that was true it would be a ridiculous claim by the company. The power available at each outlet must be the same as the max possible power since there is no way for the controller to tell the difference.
Final Note:
PLEASE UNDERSTAND...I receive hundreds of messages on all platforms (email, Facebook, comments etc) asking for advice, and help with projects. At this volume, I simply can't do one on one advice. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
The PRACTICAL Science teacher I never had... There's an entire generation out there hungry for knowledge... Keep teaching them sir
And people are hungry for what satisfies their souls, that is Jesus Christ. We all need Him; engineers, electricians and every human being.
Science teachers don't generally get to pick the topics they teach. They are handed down, often from legislatures. Your science teachers probably cared a lot about how much you learned and were more frustrated than you were. (Sorry, I'm a science teacher.)
@@CurtisDensmore1 That may very well be so, but I feel that more knowledge is conveyed to the student if the teacher shows enthusiasm and a love for their subject. (Sorry, I'm an English teacher.) There is so much more to teaching than just attempting to impart knowledge.
I
@@laenga6044 yeah... No. Science says no.
Very comprehensive Jeremy you answered a few questions that I didn't know
thankyou muchly
Just a random comment here, but I LOVE your videos- I love how you give the reasons, calculations, and technical info BEHIND your comments and decisions- this makes it great practical information that can be reworked to derive info to apply to other applications.. Thank you!
I like how you answered questions that would never cross my mind. Respect.
Very informative as well as easily understood. Its people like you that keeps people like me from burning down the house and myself. Keep up the good work
You did a great job explaining things. This come from someone that spent 14 years R&D for trolling motors. keep up the good work.
This was a good, pragmatic, rational explanation about choosing an electric motor with the constraint of usability.
Thanks for this video! I already built a small electric go kart (350W 36V) for my son, and was just starting to do research on building a second, larger kart for myself. This was extremely useful information.
Heavy diesel truck starter motors are amazing for a kart, they draw up to 2000 amps at 12vdc and when geared properly they will stay cool, they are designed to crank a 12-16 litre extremely high compression engine so they can be a good fit. As a note about them, the starters go bad often and can be gotten cheap or free, but they only go bad because of the throw out section 95% of the time, so the actual motor is still good if you rework it for this application
Thanks evil me
they turn about 2400 to 3600 free wheeling. Now controlling them for a long time and cool would be another story. They have a lot of torque. you have to remember that they are still a starter short running times.
Evil Me (and the others)
Starter motors seem to be good choices, due to their power. The drawback with them is they are designed for short periods of working, turning the engine for seconds, and then resting for much longer time (they can cool down during the resting).
Their bronze or graphite brushes can wear out very quickly if they work continuously (due to the friction and the heat generated while conducting), and overheating seems to be a big issue. But they put out huge torque.
I think the heat issue can be solved partially, by modifying the case and cooling them with fans.
The friction between the brushes and the rotor also can be lowered, but not too much. This can be the biggest issue with them.
With Pulse Width Modulation controllers, their speed and torque can be controlled easily, but it needs huge MOSFETs, a lot. It's very easy to build a controller with NE555 or NE556 ICs, the H-bridge for the motor is simple, but it needs to be designed and built carefully.
I say the best choice for the job should be a 3-phase induction motor with a frequency modulation controller, which is the most difficult part of the contraption. The controller can be built at home too with some knowledge, and there are well-designed ones available to buy, newly or used. They are not cheap.
Just a silly question, but wouldn't you use a starter motor and then a regular DC motor? Have the Starter work primarily when starting from stop and then having the regular DC motor kick in once you get to speed?
Sounds like an added level of complexity not to mention weight. But I like the way you think. I have a friend who has a hybrid. Fast as hell. I guess this is the way it works. I think it's strange that the IC motor shuts off at stop signs and then restarts when you start driving. And it's also strange to me that the batteries only charge when the car is driving. There is no way to plug it in. I've looked under the hood, its a complicated very sophisticated piece of machinery.....
The best explanations so far that I have from utube. As a maintenance technician, without a degree, this has expanded my education x 2.
Vital information taught very well. I appreciate these videos
Kerageous 1 what do you do maintenance on?
Another industrial maintenance technician watching your videos! Steel industry
Jeremy, you are a pleasure to listen to. You are very gifted in this. You are a teacher. You give very clear guidance, instruction as should be. This is not common. It takes a person with a heart to care for the students learning number 1. You do. Thank you, John from Noblesville.
You're one of the greats, Jeremy. I love what you do.
Please read the description! There are technical corrections including comments on the use of Brushless DC or three phase AC motors there.
Jeremy Fielding , I have a 100 volt dc treadmill motor sitting in my shed that I want to use for a project like this...
I'm glad you saved me some time. I won't be using it
My job here is done 👍🏽
Jeremy Fielding can you use a light dimmer switch for the speed controller for the AC washing machine motor?
I made a whole video on that. Search my channel for dimmer switch
Thanks, Jeremy. This was very informative.
Awesome and informative video, Jeremy - thank you for taking the time to make it and post it for everyone!
Perfectly presented sir, thank you for investing your time in helping others and very skillful in presentation as well!
I've been an electrician at a steel mill for 33 years. We work on just about everything you can imagine.... I just want to say I really enjoy your channel. When I'm talking to younger guys that aren't sure what to do with their lives. You're channel is one I'll tell them to check out. You keep it interesting and you show how you can have fun, learn, and do it for as cheap as possible. Well done! 👍🏼
Ty kindness prevails
23 years at my mill, till Corp decommissioned the site. It's never the same day twice when supporting a mill with an EAF, Baghouse, Reheat furnace and Rolling Mill (simplified). Cheers
The best motor I found was a starter from a Ford Power-Stroke® diesel engine, the one that is "in-line" having a planetary reduction gear setup internally. It has tire "burn out" torque and goes pretty fast when driving the wheel/tire directly. Those are 4KW motors (5+ HP) and aux cooling is required! I used 3/8" thinwall copper tubing to wrap the motor and a water pump and car heater core as a radiator. Use Thermon® T-85 graphite paste when wrapping the motor with the tubing for good heat transfer and aluminum sheeting to finally cover the tubing and motor. Do this and be sure to wear a helmet!
Great tips
Thanks for your time Jeremy. You are a great teacher.
Nice. Very educated man. Love when I get to watch someone who can teach me. Thank you.
This was great, thank you! Very clearly presented; I'm thinking this could make for an interesting project!
Holy crap. I've been waiting for this. My inner child just let loose and ran around the room from excitement!!!!
I can learn more about electric motor's from you in 20 minutes than l have learned on my own in my 58 year's, I wish kid's today could all have a teacher like you.
Thank you for all your work, experience and information. Awesome!
For a variable speed controller up to 40 volts I use a cordless drill trigger and it hasn't failed me yet. Food for thought. Great videos
Ty for sharing
Thanks for the awesome videos.
Very informative! As someone who is new to all the different kinds of motors out there, I appreciate you taking the time to show the reasons why some motors are and are not ideal for different applications.
Hello Jeremy,
very easy explanation...now we all know how it should be done....thanks for the input...... and thanks for sharing.
You ruined my plans on runing my washing machine go cart with an extension cord.
Lol! A solar sail maybe!
put it on a tether and do donuts...🤓
Bungee cords and a generator in the passenger seat
@@axlegrind4212 AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Use a cordless cord..
Hi. Love your videos. I read through the comments and no one said this so I'm going to. In my experience with inverters, the lead acid battery can not handle loads above around 800 watts for more than a short duration. I think your inverter may have been working fine, but pulled the voltage below the inverter cutoff safety setting. Then when the voltage came back up in the battery, the inverter started again. You probably needed 3 or 4 batteries in parallel the size of the one you were using to reliably use that inverter at its max rated wattage. 3,000 wats is 250 Amps at 12 volts. Way more than a single car battery can handle.
How does a car battery start a car if it can't handle more than 800watts? And how do you know what kind of battery this is and the amps it can handle, batteries vary greatly. There are little 5ah RC batteries that can put out 6000+ watts
@@pdub422 judging by d size of it, it'll hardly exceed 100Ah. yes, it'll handle even 2000W, but more than 30seconds continously will already be pushing it. and while cranking d V will drop
The single car battery CAN deliver a few hundred amps for a few seconds - which is enough generally to crank a car engine. Use golf cart batteries for more continuous power.
@@KarlsLabReport I tried running my electric chainsaw with a 3000 watt inverter hooked directly to the installed battery on my Ford Ranger with the engine running and the saw started and almost immediately the engine died on the pickup and the saw started running slow then the undervoltage protection on the inverter shut it down. The alternator and the battery combined couldn't keep the tiny electric chainsaw running. A single battery is not able to pack much of an electrical load for more than 5 seconds, but 4 will be able to run a decent load for one to a few hours, but doesn't have enough power to reliably run a washing machine reliably or a standard fridge and freezer reliably. Lithium ion baterys are many times better for any high load (example cordless power tools)
brilliant, well-done thanks i am slowly getting my dyslexic head round it thanks to clear well-demonstrated videos like yours jeremy fielding, thanks again
I can listen to your knowledgeable mind through your voice forever .
You can use auxiliary electromagnets on permanent magnet DC motors for field weakening or amplifying for adjusting torque-speed characteristics and current consumption.
I hope you consider a career as a teacher: feels like you'd be fantastic!
500 000 vs 30 students
@@AllanLaal exactly
He'd be the Bruce yeany of engineering
I just found your channel and I'm instant subscription brother your explanation style is extremely easy to understand. Thank you for your time and the effort you put into making these videos they are very helpful for someone interested in getting into electric motors and how to understand the rating information.
Man.. I love this channel. I just finished watching your CNC video (really nice work btw) and completing handful of repairs on a 20 year old Manco go kart which now runs like a top! I may never build an electric go kart, but that was still a super informative and interesting video.
One thing you might have forgot to mention.... Inverter would better be a Pure Sine wave to drive inductive load. Also the inverter might have cut out due to excessive battery voltage drop... in which case 2 batteries in patallel might help - making such motor/inverter setup even more impratical. Another alternative is to use a 24 volt inverter and 2 batteries in series.
hahaa a great vid JF! keep em rollin my friend .. God Bless : )
Excellent! Clear and in layman terms, giving practical and useful information. Thank you.
Thank you for your videos. THIS is my kind of channel. Quick easy to understand information. Not the long and drawn out videos where they leave out critical information that makes you google for an hour or until you understand what they did.
Lol. That extension cord is such a pain on my commute. Always have to come home the same way
Get a longer cord silly
@Explodingtraps it don't matter how long the cord is. he'll still have to come back the same way
Everyone: Go Kart
Me: Ultralight aircraft
That's where I'm at
Excellent analysis while not getting boring. Thanks.
Hey Jeremy, I just wanted to say thank you. You have taught and inspired me. With some tips from you, I created an electric go kart for my daughter and we have started our own fun little channel. The whole learning process has been a blast and now we have a kart to race around our neighborhood. All the best, thanks again Jeremy!
Possible patreon availability
Maybe the meter you're using measures only the active power while the current is tremendous with an inductive load and reached the max output current of the inverter? But 150W with lo load it's way too much for the active power so you must be right.
I saw that on an rv air conditioner starter kit. They had to have a faster meter. My 2kw inverter needs 2awg short wires to make max output.
Will the colour change involve "Fielding Blue" {Tm} ?????
Blue sounds like a good choice thank you 😀
Very nice video and clarifying comments in your description. Definitely helpful and educational.
Jeremy ; Great video even tho I'm not much on electronics. I admire guys like you who aren't afraid to get right into it on their own. Keep on trucking.
The alternator is just a 6-pole (3-pole pair) 3-phase motor with an externally DC-excited rotor field wired in a wye configuration. When generating power, the output is controlled by regulating the field strength.
To use it as a motor, you need to generate 3 phase AC with, say, the secondary of a VFD or have brushless DC motor controller. Problem is, the alternator is not designed to run full field for a long duty cycle.
Of course, the devil and a lot of the cost is in the motor controller.
well said.
Ya that hundred or so dollars really hits hard on the pocket book not to mention the 2+ hours of jerking around modifying something to perform the exact opposite of its intended purpose.
Not every alternator is a 6-pole, or delta configuration. Problem is , the alternator is designed to run at a specified output with a given demand for the duration of it's rotation.
Of course, the devil and a lot of the time wasted is in the work put in.
Even at a "hundred or so dollars" you could just get a predator 212 and easily go twice as fast. It doesnt make any sense other than experimentation.
@@adubs. predator 212 is only 6.5hp, an alternator can easily get over 10hp and being an electric motor would have torque all across the room range, your predator would NOT be anywhere near as fast as an alternator properly setup for about the same price.
Why run it at full field strength? All that does us limit your upper room limit due to back emf. An ideal value I've found, if you don't want to make a controller that will vary the field based on load and rpm, is about 5 volts.
Am I the only one sketched out by that aluminum bodied alternator chilling tightly between those terminals on the battery around 1min in?
do you mean inverter?
This video was really informative! I'm really looking forward to watching your other content! Thanks man!
Take this for what you will, this is one of the most exciting videos I've seen in years
i picked up a 24v 36amp dc electric pallet jack motor im considering making an electric cart with. salvaged controller, motor, charger. the original set up in the pallet jack two gear but large reduction. i figure less reduction will get more speed, and the motor should be torquey enough with 2 to 4 24v deep cycle marine lead acid marine battery's. if necessary i can add a flywheel clutch to let the motor get to a reasonable speed before engaging the load of moving the vehicle. like a commen gas powered go-cart. any thoughts on this endeavor?
Your motor is about 1hp output. I would recommend 4 golf cart batteries in series, if the size and weight isn't objectionable. They are 6 volts each, and a true deep cycle battery, with thicker plates than the deep cycle marine batteries, so you can discharge them farther without shortening their life. Deep cycle marine type is good, but the plates are a compromise between a starting battery (thin plates) and a true deep cycle battery (thick plates).
@@solarfluxman8810 Who sells true deep cycle batteries?
I was also going to say that's about 1 hp, after subtracting losses.
@@MultiPleaser - I've seen 6 volt golf cart deep cycle batteries for sale at Costco. Deep cycle is the type used in electric pallet jacks. You should look online also.
The motor from a rechargeable electric lawnmower is a good choice. They're usually 3-4 HP, 24 volt.
@Gabriel Derada depends on your setup. Need specifics of what you're trying to achieve otherwise a proper answer to such a vague question could fill a small book.
Thank you for taking the time to make a very informative video. Nice work!
Very well explained. Great collection of information that is difficult to find for a novice builder. Keep up the good work.
I'm thinking treadmill motor on skateboard
Please stop thinking
The only way I’d try it would be wearing an inflatable bubble boy suit and a nascar helmet!...lol
When I do my projects I'm not the one testing so I'm good
@@michaeld954 until you get charged with atempted murder lmao
I have an electronic motor from a giant conveyer belt. I mounted it on my dirt bike that I converted into a 3 wheeler. My speed controller failed in the freeway. I got my speed up to 65mph and smelled smoke and plastic as the speed controller was melting. My speed kept increasing as I passed cars trying to apply the brakes. They to melted. The next thing I saw was my speedometer still increasing past 88mph. I realized that if I didn't bail now that it would be worse the faster I went. I decided to jump fir my life. As I jumped to the asphalt at 93 miles per hour my shoelace was pulled into the sprocket and it drug me 300 ft over-the-shoulder through a ditch and into a swamp. Highway Patrol found me lying unconscious with two broken legs and the throttle grip still in my hand
I feel for you man. Just spent two weeks in bed recovering from bike accident. I'm building my own ebike as well. Never thought of a kill switch and I'm no electrical genius. So thanx for your story and sorry about your accident but 90mph is awesome for a diy ebike. I always told my kids when learning to drive" that speed is fun for sure and that driving too fast is fine. UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS. then it becomes deadly." I'm going for 40 or 50 kph max but man hitting a 100 once would be cool.
Wow that is horrible!!
When you said that you reached 88mph, I was expecting you to say that you'd gone back in time 😂
Cool story, bro.
Such a lie
You answered a lot of questions I was wondering and saved me a ton of trial and error, thanks!
Videos like these was what made me want to become an engineer when I was a kid. Thank you!!!
Thorough coverage of the subject. Thank you.
Great video you answered so many of my questions saved me a bunch of money and time doing it trial and error thanks Dale
Being totally new to this, I do have a new clothes dryer motor which I ended up not needing. After finding lint out of sight jamming the back area of the spindle while trying to remove the motor, I just needed to get it clean. Now still running strong 3 years. No one's vid on youtube suggested anything other than installing a new motor, based on my search for the symptoms, so I bought one. Love what you do, my wife has joined me watching you. Excellent work.
Great video and mentoring! You answered a lot of questions and help save a lot time experimenting!
Your brilliant Jeremy! keep up your cranial exercises!!! THANKS JEREMY!
Thank you so much.... That saved a lot of time for so many out there!
These videos are excellent. Thank you for creating them.
Wow GOD bless you brother. What a gift you have for teaching. I would love to see a couple million subs on your channel. And thank you for sharing your gifts with all of us nuts out here!
You Sir, are a fountain of knowledge. An excellent, thorough and edifying video. Thanks, keep up the great work! Subscribed a longtime ago!
Really excellent presentation full of practical info..thanks
I've been wondering about this lately. Super useful information - subbed. Thanks!
Lots of info and very well presented, thanks a lot.
Well researched practicality. Very impressive. Keeps my attention totally.
Great video! Hard to find a good logical detailed video like yours(like and subscribed)
Great and useful video...I am making a powered yard cart out of a quad frame so this helped me understand that a converted alternator might not be the most practical solution for higher torque at a crawl speed which is all I need.
Very nicely done and simple to understand terms and analogies.
I'm only 3 minutes in and it's already excellent! I like the way you test with the locking pliers, because definitely, that AC motor is going to run into those type of challenges. It is something I have to admit I wouldn't have thought of.
I'm so glad I found you channel because I've been working on making an electric bike and needed to know everything you just covered .. thank you so much
The hunt for the perfect motor is half the fun! Experiments are the learning curve that leads us to dump the dc motors and all the heavy wires and batteries. And replace it with a VFD. You now have. 100% Tourqe at 0 rpm 3 time plate rpm. Pot speed control. Just add a transformer to your inverter to get the 220 volts to run the vfd. And have fun.
Hi I have always wanted to say hi and thank you explaining things in a much more visual way over the years. Calm and cool thank you.
Awesome channel. Glad I found it. Well spoken and explained.
Very practical information, excellent presentation format.
Can fully resonate with your instruction..Top stuff. Best you tube chanel yet
very informative you answer all the questions everyone would ask good job God bless
You have answered some questions for me. Thank you very much.
You are by far the best one out there making content like this!!! Absolutely amazing job! # dream job
Dude very well explained in easy to understand terms thank you and keep the vid's coming 🙏🙏🙏
Great job brother. U rock. Thank u for great info and teaching!! I appreciate all the details u give I learn from u all the time.thanh Man
Excellent educational video for the lay person not understanding how electric motors work.
I totally get everything you explain so you've earned my following!
Awesome video, very clear and helpful!
You are far and away more helpful than anything I have found. The forums are full of toxic, condescending individuals. Thank you so much.
Thank you Jeremy!!!
I love your videos, man...
So good
You make good videos, always learn something. . .Thank You
best electrical engineering motor tutorials.. i subscribed you and now will make my entire class to do
Well done. Excellent communication on electric motors.
Love watching Jeremy’s videos
Thank you Jeremy. That's a lot of things I just learned.
Always fun watching your videos.
Thank you for this very informative video!
I liked your video. Great information. I remember something from several years ago about "overspeeding" a brush type DC motor. Once a DC motor like this is up to its full speed, the field winding acts as a speed control through the strong magnetic field it produces. If the current is then reduced to the field, the motor will increase in speed, above its rated speed. Another thing I remember about DC motors used in old Trolley cars (aka street cars) is that the car had only 4 speed positions, and not an infinitely variable speed control. In the first position of the controller, the motor is in a 6 pole and series wound mode where the field and armature windings are wired in series. This gives maximum torque, and a lower speed to start the trolley moving. The next position is 4 field poles and also wired in series. The torque is reduced some, but the speed increases. The third position on the controller engages 6 field coils, but wired so that the field coils and rotor coils are in parallel. This allows for more speed, but again reduces torque, however the trolley has increased speed, so not as much torque is needed. The 4th position engages 4 field coils, and the field and rotor windings are in parallel for maximum speed.