@Yakut58 He thinks they could order a million pepsis if "they wanted to" and has no concept of supply and demand. He has no idea how many people want these watches and that the ADs have no control over what they receive and when.
@DocScoot years back was 100% different than what the Rolex market is today. You used to be able to find Rolex sports models sitting in the cases. You would never see that today.
@DocScoot mate back in 2013-2014, you could just walk in without any purchase history and buy the Sub Hulk at retail price, ADs were keen on getting rid of Milgauss and Explorers, you could even get a 10% discount for em. That's all history for the past few years, even for the Explorer 1, I've read reports where people have waited for 18 months and still nothing.
These AD's are digging their own grave... More and more watch brands sell via internet directly and people are willing to buy on the internet... The dishonesty of these AD's will only accelerate their demise...
All dealers are the same. I worked at a Rolex boutique and I can assure you that their is a "candy book" and with names of people and how much they have spent. The wealthiest spenders will always get the sports watches.
And here i am, waiting for that sub for nearly 4 years on these ‘honest’ AD list, and yet every year there are brand new ones selling on the grey market… honest my ass
This video is one of the best arguments for finding another brand to enjoy that I’ve heard. This is not a game we should have to play. I think Rolex is shooting themselves in the foot hard right now, and are probably going to lose a generation of enthusiasts to this kind of silliness.
Their brand recognition is strong enough to play this kind of game. Almost, every people who make it will own/buy a Rolex. Enthusiasts just make a tiny fraction of the customer base.
You are wrong Bruce, all ADs use those practices, there is no way I can get a steel sports model, I am not offered those models even if they have them.
A genuine inquisitive question is how would you suggest that they deal with the problem they face where their demand outweighs their supply up to & over 200% (I have seen my local AD’s “register of interest”) Of course they will have preferred trusted & proven & unfortunately wealthy customers that have built there relationship over many years or purchases & they do not want to be part of the flipping dilemma which is to blame for this hype over unattainable models so I genuinely would like to know how you think or how you would deal with the situation also given that as we know they have to conform to very strict rules from Rolex themselves or risk losing their authorised status that makes them stand out from any other non authorised jewellers in their town/city!?
@@paulw4904 You are just confirming that all Rolex ADs are "bad ADs" (following Bruce's definition), so Bruce is wrong in his video. And, since I only want one Rolex, I cannot buy it and will not be offered it. So, the dealers do not hate the customers offering them to buy several pieces to get a Rolex, it is what they want to hear and some customers try whatever the can to get a piece.
Sorry Bruce, I think the demand for Rolex has turned more ADs into those ‘bad’ ones you referenced at the start. Day after day, week after week, I see the same people flipping new SS Rolex sport models. Yet walked in with cash to buy for your 40th and you’re laughed out of the store. ADs are destroying the Rolex brand.
All bs artists. Cant stand these R AD's. I dont get how they dont sell you a watch if you never bought a watch from them before. How someone can get their foot in the door. Pos
Amen to that. I bought my snowflake 3 years ago at a GS boutique and it was an incredible experience, the only problem they gave me was having to choose between the snowflake and a limited edition whirlpool.
Sorry man, I think you’re off on this one… As much as I want to believe you, the grand game has turned most ADs into bad apples. I walked into my local AD genuinely wanting to pick up my one and done Rolex piece the Explorer 1, and I was told in my face, plain as day, that I stood no chance (zero, nada) without purchasing any of their two-tone pieces. When Random Rob bought his 41mm nd sub in his vid, he mentioned Lucido as being one of those ADs that are “different”, that they’ll help you without you needing to help them offload some of their current stock. My jaded af self doesn’t believe one inch of that story.
I feel the same as you, there’s a reason why he continues to mention Lucido. I’m sure there was an implication that he would lead a good amount of business and consumer traffic their way. No knock, as he’s earned that privilege, but I don’t think the average person is getting it as quickly as he did without 60K subscribers and counting lol
Remember Rob bought off the back of someone else, so anything Rob says is moot, because his experience doesn't reflect what a normal person will expect
While I agree with all you have said I was glad to see that you said “most” which is what I agree with the most but I have been fortunate to have experienced a good AD so can honestly say there are albeit very few from the general consensus some “good” ones around but I guess it’s pot luck depending on where & who your local one happens to be! I wouldn’t suggest being an arse kisser but patience & good nature goes a long way if you don’t have the money to just buy your way in.
Here's my problem with Rolex: I do like their watches. They produce classic, beautiful designs. However, unless I'm wearing a Dior suit every day, everybody who looks at me wearing one is either; 1. Going to assume it's fake. 2. Is going to assume I paid way over what it's actually worth. or 3. Is going to assume I sucked off an AD to get it. It takes everything away from what makes a Rolex cool. So just from a values point of view, I'm sticking with Omega. It's not a lesser choice. I would buy a Rolex in addition to Omega if this nonsense wasn't going on. But I'd be ashamed to have one on my wrist nowadays.
@@Angry_Gnome yep. That’s one of the reasons why I went Tudor as well. I refuse to pay over retail for anything. Got a BB black sitting on my wrist as I type this. Walked in the AD, they had a ton of watches and 30 minutes later walked out with the Black Bay.
I don't know where you find those 'good' ADs you are referring to, but here in Asia they sell everything to flippers (or at least 90% of what they get). Think about it, where do you think all the independent dealers get their brand new Rolex from? They have all the hard to get models, brand new (maybe 1-2 weeks old) and in unlimited numbers. They don't have something you want, tell them and 2-3 days later they have it. Brand new. It's a myth that ADs sell watches to regular clients at retail price without any kickback/benefit.
Rolex has a problem coming in 5 years. Absolutely terrible brand experience and the latest statement - it's not our fault, it's up to the ADs - smacked of laziness.
@@williamcoolidge9884 I get the distinct impression that Rolex likes avoiding responsibility for this situation. So the ADs are a convenient device for them.
@@ianwillo people have been saying that for ages. The thing is people like hard to get products. That's why gold holds value or diamonds or that mona lisa painting. It holds value. Esp with fiat money being printed indiscriminately
I have suggested for the last 5 years that Rolex should take orders direct like Tesla does, and deliver through the AD's. Rolex can also control that customers are not buying to flip since it can store in a database how many models you have bought.
I’ve never asked a Rolex AD about a sports model without having them basically laugh in my face. So honesty gets you nowhere with these people in my personal experience.
Why would they? I mean put yourself in their shoes. If i was working as a sales exe in a Rolex AD, why would I go out of my way to get a rolex sports model for someone who i don't know, probably is a one off buyer or may be a flipper? Might as well sell it to someone i know, has a track record of buying including non sports model and someone i can rely on to help me hit my sales target to move those hard to move pieces in return for 1-2 sports model. Win-win situation for me the sales person, my shop and rolex.
@@xxxcool2565 Good sales people know how to build long-term relationships with new customers. Luxury watches are not just transactional sales. Good businesses always are looking to grow with new customers. My experience is the Rolex AD is just an order taker. The AD uses the excuse "its supply & demand", but I found out through TH-cam that the AD is selling direct to the grey market to make more profit. The point is that every business treats customers as long term relationships and no need to play games. I am not expecting to buy a Daytona, but I am a watch collector and would buy from my local AD if they would have worked with me to get an entry level Oyster Perpetual. Simply put, healthy relationships are two way not one way. I found other great brands and my AD is the grey market.
Says a guy who owns several, would know several ADs and has a huge internet following. Try being a normal and finding a "good" AD haha keep smoking crack bro
It's just unfortunate that Rolex has degenerated their customers and ADs into what is essentially drug dealing. It cheapens the whole process and the brand IMO.
Hard disagree with this video, and I have never flipped a watch in my life. No brand is worth this amount of hassle, and I can't fault consumers for taking advantage of the system, since that's what every AD is doing as well. This video gives me the impression that you chatted with an AD and are just publishing their own take on the matter. I absolutely hate scalpers who take advantage of temporary lapses in supply (i.e. next gen gaming consoles right now), but I feel no animosity toward Rolex flippers. No offense Bruce, but didn't you just make a video talking about how you flipped your Vacheron? I really don't see how flipping it right away vs. 3-6 months later means all that much, you still profit in the end if the piece is desirable enough that the used price is worth more than retail. In the end, salesman should not have to care what you do with the watch after you purchase it. You bought it, it's yours, flip it if you want. I understand that they want to sell to people who will actually wear it, but again, this is Rolex's fault for limiting supply to make their brand seem more exclusive.
Rolex (the manufacturer) does not interact with the end customer (unless the sale takes place via own boutique), hence it is the AD’s job to screen and filter out flippers. If it’s for lack of training - train the seller, if it’s for cooperation in some messed up profit sharing scheme - fire the seller. It’s no rocket science that no customer / watch enthusiast needs 2-3 steel sport watches from the same brand every single year, so in most cases it’s not a lack of training…
I buy a lot so my guy(who sorta rides the line between AD and grey) asks me to not sell the piece for a year. I've never sold one, but I also wouldn't buy as much if I didn't get a kick out of watching the price grow. So everyone actually likes the existing situation, apart from watch nerds.
Yeah its a whole eco-system where everyone is to blame. I saw a watch video with Producer Michael and an AD or grey marked dealer and they talk Patek and Richard Mille plus others. It was the same crazy retail priced watches selling for 2-3-4 times more on grey marked or even used. Mind-boggling 🤯. Who buys these watches, rich athletes, rich Asians, Gulf Arabs or criminals... WHO ???
@@larsstougaard7097 People with more money than sense. We live in a world, where a lot of people have money to burn and they spend it on certain luxury goods, and it must be certain brands, usually the hype brands, to show off. It is what it is. I would say all of the above, and in general people with money.
@@larsstougaard7097Ver well said. This screws anybody who might have wanted a lower tier Rolex for the specs or heritage, not just as a status symbol. Now it’s spreading to other brands.
There is a jewelry store by me and they sell second hand watches. They had a while dial stainless steel Daytona for $37,500 and a GMT-Master II Pepsi for $22,000. At the end of the day you just have stainless steel watches when you could have either gotten a Patek Philippe Calatrava 5227J yellow gold that retails for $37,850 or get 3 to 5 non-Rolex watches for the same amount. It's just not a good value for money to buy Rolex at a premium. The only people that can get a steel sports Rolex are those who either buy an expensive Rolex that most people can't afford like a Day-Date or a solid gold sports watch like a gold Submariner or GMT-Master II first. I don't want to play that game.
Can't say I struggle to feel sorry for people that sell overpriced and hyped watches. That and the fact Rolex are such an unimaginative choice. "why did you buy that Rolex?" "I bought it cos its a Rolex!" Wow.
Bruce wish this would really work. Been honest with ADs....been told 'no thanks'. While at the same time seen other people walk in and walk out with a nice Rolex bag!! it's depressing
Unfortunately, I wish good AD'S were in the majority, but no, they're definitely in the minority. There's a reason that most of the sought after watches go straight to the grey market. Here's the deal, the AD does a deal with their "customers" to sell it, flip it, share the profits.
Dude I’ve been on a “waitlist” for a Pepsi gmt master 2 since it came out with about 4 ad’s. I’ve told every single one that I want a hot dog engraved on the case back to honor a friend and mentor who is no longer here. Still waiting for a single call. Seen all 4 of them a few times a year to check in. Rolex is a joke, their ad’s are a joke and the whole industry is a joke. Fairly certain that the hot dog on the case back is a pretty good indication that I’d keep it forever but I don’t have deep pockets and I’m not some chump that feels like a watch is something that I should have to spend money on watches I don’t want nor should have to beg to get. Until all this crap blows over and people stop acting like fools for these superfluous material items the average man has a better chance of winning the power ball than getting a popular Rolex.
Mitch, "if I may" mate over here in Australia what's happened is a strange vibe that is (FOMO), all this stems from Covid over the past 2 years and the Boomers or 50s and over having real money to basically burn due a reality check and the fear of death having been put in them. There have been thousands of new cars, 70k caravans, 100k Land Cruisers, Land Rovers, 100k Tesla's bought. These Boomers have knocked the doors off the prestige Jewellery and watch AD here in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne to get their hands on a once in a lifetime piece of jewellery or that special occasion Rolex. Mostly older people are becoming very ill or dieing, thus creating a mental crisis for thousands . not only for the Boomers but also their children for its their inheritance thats disappearing before the eyes. Omega is getting hit too, even Grand Seiko are "taking orders" their only second to Rolex & Omega over here. So in a few years I expect we will see plenty of the VHTF Omega and Rolex pieces available. I love Rolex only for the sum of what one is, and at 58 and after over 4 decades of Swiss Dive Scuba watches, all automatics and all well worn, my view is Rolex in 2022,do have the best built cases, bracelets & engineered "automatic" movements dial materials on the market with GS a close second for pure perfection of function. All I can say is keep the dream alive, be patient. From personal experience we know real lifelong friends are rare. Cheers, Johno. Brisbane down under. :)
I understand that flippers are villains here… but as long as there are people who are willing to pay 200% retail this will always be the case. I’d love to meet someone or hear someone’s thought process on why they can justify paying grey market prices for a Rolex. TBH, I’ve not seen anyone on TH-cam talk about this. Can you look into this? Would be an interesting video!
People paying more for a submariner than a Glashutte SeaQ. Doesn't make any sense to me. You want an investment, buy the stock market. You want a watch, get the best one you can get for your money.
Offer/demand, grey market price is market price. Retail price means nothing. It’s like speaking about the par value of a stock, it is irrelevant. If rationality was involved, people would buy 10 dollars watches that keep better time. This is not about rational value, we re talking about luxury goods
To answer your question, and foster good honest discussion - I purchased my Explorer 124270 grey market. I sold my 126200 DateJust (black dial, smooth bezel, oyster bracelet) and Kurono Tokyo Toki and paid the difference. The difference for my Explorer ended up being about $1,000. I didn’t mind because I didn’t want to wait as I’m impatient, and I have no spend history with any AD, and don’t plan on building one. I understand why folks wouldn’t agree with going grey, but it works for me and I’m blessed to be able to financially.
I was on a list for less than 12months, and my local AD in Birmingham UK called saying he’d got a Rolex that I had showed an interest in. DJ41 black dial, no not a big hitter but I was over the moon with my purchase, and certainly won’t be flipping it. Couple of days later I was in another shopping mall where they had a yacht master in the window, display model only, I asked to try it on as I thought this is the nearest to trying on a submariner, after talking for a while he actually told me he had a sub in the back, no date. I tried it on and loved it. I would have purchased it on the spot, he looked me in the eye and said we,re very selective to who we sell to🤣🤣 the store is actually connected to where I purchased the DJ41🤣🤣 I thanked him and walked out. Hopefully 2022 my original AD will come through with my sub or explorer 2🤞🏽🏴🇬🇧
let me tell you what. They hate when you buy the cheapest datejust and wink them for a daytona... but when you buy 5 unwanted gem set or diamond bezel datejust, they will definitely like you and you are definitely a good customer
So how do the Rolex grey dealers for eg in the Diamond District obtain literally hundreds of brand new hard to get Rolex sports watches? The factory isn't selling it to them, the AD's are. It's a vicious cycle that they created from their own greed. Nothing else.
The "funny" thing is the the Pepsi GMT really is my favorite and grail Rolex. However, since I have no purchase history and will not buy on the Grey market, it is pretty much impossible for me to get one.
I have had 2 ADs, in two different countries who pretty much stated what you said in the intro and it truly appears as Rolex's TTP is to get you to buy 2 to 3 stinkers in their shop so you can buy SS Daytona or Sub, because of these clear tactics, I have given up on Rolex and their corrupt business practices.... bottom line their watches aren't all that and I own a couple
That's the question that gets to the heart of the matter. I think we know. That customer is gonna get played. The AD is not selling a skydweller to a one-off customer.
I think the problem is this. These are luxury items, difficult to to get at MSRP. In the case of the Pepsi and the Panda Daytona, extremely hard (to practically impossible) to get luxury items at MSRP. Even if flippers didn't exist, the demand would still VASTLY outweigh supply. To many people, they think they are entitled to these pieces if they can afford them at MSRP. That has never been the case for luxury items, or high demand items. To me, it makes sense that if a guy has been a customer for 10, 15 years and he wants a Daytona, he is going to get it before a new customer. It makes business sense. It may not SEEM fair, but from a business standpoint, it is. Now add flippers to the equation and the fact that a Pepsi can turn a 10k profit instantly, Daytonas can instantly turns a 18K profit. Yes, the good ADs won't purposely sell to a known flipper, but what's to stop that great customer from saying, I'm going to do it this one time cause I just can't turn down that kind of profit? We knw it's happening cause there are SOOOO many available on grey market. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if at least half of the Pepsis, Batmans, and Daytonas sold at ADs are flipped almost instantly. They aren't watch enthusiasts, they are money enthusiasts.
That customer is told they will be put on a waiting list and the AD has no idea when they will actually get one. It's the only polite way to say GTFO of my store.
You get nothing, thats what happens. I wanted a Sub AD laughed at me I asked if they had Omega had them show me what I wanted to see and them I told them I want to get it. The salesman said ok let me get it ready for you. I told him sorry you misunderstood me I'm buying it but I didn't say I was buy it from you. I walked out I bough the 300Professional at an Omega AD. Yes Mayors here in Tampa will never get my business. Next is a speedy for Christmas and a nice Seiko for my wife along with some diamond studs.
Honestly, this is incredibly naive. The vast majority of AD's feed Rolexes to grey market flippers and get kickbacks in cash. This is known to everyone.
I went to mayors to look at a pelagos. While I was there they had a GMT master ii on display and I loved it. The first time I had actually seen one in person. I asked if they had a waiting list or something and I was flat out told "buy the pelagos and we will talk". They wouldnt even pretend to put me on a list without buying a $4.5 watch. I turned around and walked out.
Paul I've been there at International Plaza. Asked for a steel sub they laughed at me, I asked them to show me 300m Omega. I told them I'm buying it, the salesman said let me get it ready. I replied. I'm buying it today but not from you. I walked out when home and bough it from Omega online store, delivered 3 days later. Until Rolex opens their own boutiques and sales online the only ones getting one will be Bucs, rays and Lightning players and their families.
@@gito4130 yep. I had to go to the mayors in Bradenton to drop of my speedmaster for some warranty service. Asked about the waitlist on a no date sub and a date just 41. Not sure if I’ll get it but she at least took my name and typed something in the computer. They are way friendlier they. Unfortunately they have nowhere near the inventory of the one in Tampa.
You know, I'm really happy I'm not a Rolex fan. I have a Rolex sports model that was a wedding gift. I'm not comfortable wearing it but it does bring me joy to remember the adventure I was on when my wife and I were married. In today's market, I don't think I would be comfortable with a Rolex from any source. I'd always be plagued by some doubt or regret to wear it. Of course, I'm always rooting for the underdog, too. Today, the underdog is anyone except Rolex! Haha!
My AD flat out told me that I have to buy their overpriced jewelry or else they won’t sell me a Rolex. I highly doubt that there is a single honest AD left out there.
Love Rolex. Never owned a Rolex. Never been inside of an official Rolex dealer. But hearing everyone’s horror stories dealing with ADs makes me think that I’ll never set foot in one. Looks like I’ll just have to be happy with Omega & Tudor - both just as beautiful as Rolex.
I learned a lot from this video. I’m new to luxury watches and only own one (Tudor BB GMT) and I had no idea that the market was so complex (in a bad way).
The combination of bad AD’s and bad customers has resulted in a market that discourage so many from having any interest in modern Rolexes. Uncool people on both sides spoil it for everyone.😡
That practice is called "tied-sales" and it is forbidden by competition law. A formal complaint should be filed with Rolex or with the Justice Department. I have a GMT Ceramic that is always in the safebox, but if I was going to buy a Rolex today and they did that to me, I'd completely cancel any intention of buying one.
I went to pick up his and hers for our 12th anniversary and I couldn't believe the BS from an authorized dealer. I thought exactly that, how can Rolex destroy their brand like this. They should sell direct consumer from a website and they would kill it. No way in hell I am paying over msrp for 2 watches from some reseller or putting a used watch on my or the wifeys wrist.
I can understand the frustration of people who can't get their dream watch but I can't fault people for taking free money. Buy a Daytona for 12k, sell it for 30k the same day, 18k free money. Anyone who says they wouldn't do it out of some "watch enthusiast honor code" or whatever ... come on, BS.
I retired from the fire service 8 years ago and wanted to buy a Rolex Explorer as a retirement gift to myself but have not been able to purchase one I've been on so called lists for 8 years but never heard back.
Random Rob: These watches were still coveted years ago. Here is a crazy idea, but what if Rolex just sells direct (boutique or online) to the public and the middle man AD is removed? The shortages would still exist but the middle man is removed and can sell other watches instead of back door selling to grey market. I have purchased a new Rolex in the grey market when it was still reasonable ($2k premium on a Hulk back in 2018). Would not pay today’s premium. I don’t think there is a solution except for Rolex to increase production to feed the masses which they will not.
@@TTwatchnut Well actually, I didn't find them to be clear that's why I asked. You addressed your whole post to Random Rob. This is a Bruce Williams video, not Random Rob's. That's why I asked. Not sure why the animosity for asking a question, but you be you...
@@jimlittle5769 Jim, allow me to clarify. Was agreeing with RR, but that was not my point. Was expressing frustration with ADs. I’m sorry Jim Little. Are you an AD by any chance? Just kidding. Have a good one JL.
Yeah have been going to a handful of ADs over the years and several kept pressuring me to buy other watch brands I didn't want like Panerai, Breitling, etc. Finally ended up going to a Rolex Boutique and hit pay dirt. I have a good relationship with them and now I'm on their unofficial preferred list.
Bruce, while I admire your virtuous philosophical view on this matter, the reality is, whether one is a "flipper" or a person truly seeking their grail, they both have to play the same "ladder" game. If I go into an AD without some kind of "relationship" and ask for the next Daytona that comes in, I'll never get one. At least in this current market supply/demand situation.
Tell them what you’re looking for huh?” So I did this a couple months ago then again last week. 2 diff AD’s……..I got laughed at for asking about a stainless steel Rolex model. At both places. You’re off on this one
I have been collecting watches for over 20 years . Have not watched yt watch videos for about 8 months and can't believe people are still talking about Rolex. I always wanted a Pepsi GMT but obviously can't get it . Got an Omega world timer and love it. Please stop making Rolex videos in 8 months I hope watch channels have something else to talk about.
lol... come back in 8 months and you'll find twice as many videos on YT talking about Rolex in some form or another. I enjoy the brand and will continue to talk about relevant topics on my varied channel which will include a good dose of Rolex
Might be a good time for another brand to step in and take a piece of the market. People will eventually move on if they really can't find the rolex at lower prices. There's a limit to every product's moment in the spotlight.
Omega they have plenty of great models. 300 professional, speedy, Railmaster and Aquaterra, the new NTD Seamster is beautiful. Rolex has become a status symbol game. Most people that own Rolex do not know anything about horology even gray dealers. its all about the profits.
Tourneau one of the biggest AD’s for Rolex in the US and they do typically what you said , they say clearly you must have a purchase history from other brands we sell then we can get you the Rolex you want, and Rolex US knows that well and still keeps their dealership and never intervene and the official answer from Rolex which I got from them over the phone was “Rolex do not interfere in the management policy of our AD’s”!
When I bought mine this February, they kept asking me questions to determine whether I was a reseller. It was annoying. I still have the watch and plan to keep it until I die.
I wanted a steel datejust. I naively thought i could save and buy one from an AD . Nope , put my name down on 4-5 AD list and nothing . I was told might take 6 months. That was over a year ago . So I brought one used paid slightly more than retail and it was 12 months old . Not perfect but otherwise I waste my life not wearing the watch I dreamed of. The AD knows if I really want it and I will say what do I have to do at which point he says well … I wouldn’t do that / couldn’t do that . So look at GS , Omega , Brietling etc for immediate service or look at older / vintage Rolex . If we continue to play this game it will never end .
What an incredibly nieve video .. trying to make out that most Rolex ADs are guardiabs of light and justice who dont give out Rolexs to people who spend the most .. I want some if what you are smoking ..
I have been saving and also selling watches to buy a Rolex datejust 36mm which is not a hot watch. Went to 3 ADs in my city. All Rolex displays were empty. I was directed towards other displays for Shinola, Tudor (there was a wait list for the 58 BTW), and Panerai (which I don't like.) So I took that money and bought two watches online. A Black Bay 58 which I also wanted and a GS. The GS is superior to the Rolex I wanted and the black bay means I don't have to settle for an older used sub with unknown service history. At all ADs I was told to buy watches I have no interest in just to be put on a wait list to maybe one day in a few years get a Rolex.
Sad thing here in the Netherlands is that all the AD's here only sell through the back door. Or they even sell brand new watches to as secondhand straight in the AD.
i bought 1 tudor from an AD years ago. and then i wanted a submariner, the dealer gave it to me. It's actually not as bad as most youtubers make it to be (maybe depending on which city you live in). Because let's not forget those youtubers like nico etc, they're hustlers. they're literally the type of people that AD's don't want to deal with. but unfortunately they're the loudest voice.
And sometimes an AD says they are going to get you the watch you want (which isn't even overly desired watch by most) and that you're first on the list for that piece, and then crickets. In any event, people who buy hard to get pieces (usually Rolex but not always) for the sole purpose to flip for a profit, really make it hard for ADs that WANT to get pieces to honest customers who want them to keep and enjoy.
I was very lucky that: 1. My AD was great. 2. My grail was a Datejust 36. For those stuck in this current mess that I (mostly) managed to avoid, you have my sympathies.
I got a black dial OP, love it and may get a Datejust of a different color to complement it, then may be finished because my obsession with watches has become too much!
Hmm that’s a shame. I currently have an Explorer 124270 as my sole Rolex and don’t desire any other models. I intend for my next purchases to be a Cartier Santos for myself and later on inquire about a Datejust 31 for my wife. I hope they don’t think I’m disingenuous and trying to build some sort of “relationship” for profit. I personally don’t like the larger Rolexes lol 🤷🏽♂️ Great video, and discussion as always!
Don’t do exactly what every single AD suggests you must do. I recently watched a video that exposed the literal criteria for buying high demand Rolex pieces, it was an official document that outlined eligibility and buying history was a key factor.
Highly unlikely ... If I recall, I read that Rolex has zero intentions of going to the boutique or e-commerce direction like other brands. They are a manufacturer and intend to stay that way, they do not want to get into distribution. At current rate too, it would make no difference whatsoever if they sold directly to customers. Imagine we could all go on and place an order for a Daytona... the estimated delivery time would be 5+ years I suspect.
I wouldn't say most because everyone who runs a business knows the inventory needs to move. The only ones that do not operate, imo, as badly as the typical ones are those in boutiques. This is why I'm all for getting rid of AD's that are part of jewelry stores and/or sell other timepieces in favor of Rolex boutique only ADs like Omega has done...
@@bbrebozo6417 well, the one thing good about the "Rolex scarcity" is that it turns many watch and non watch enthusiasts alike onto other watch brands as a viable alternative to scratch the itch imo 😁
I don't agree on this in Bruce. If someone wants to react to a situation that Rolex themselves created it's entirely up to them . Don't we live in a world where if you buy something it's yours?. It's up to the individual to do whatever he wants with something they've bought. It's like Rolex thinks they still own 5O% of the watch. Rolex sucks, they create a bad situation, and if ppl react to that in a way Rolex don't like, then Rolex should sort the situation out. It's all down to them
Pre-pandemic this exact situation happened to me. It put me off at first. So I did end up shopping around to other ADs, found others to be much better.
@@BruceWilliams I find AD in the Big Market like the Major Metropolitan Cities a lot more arrogent, probebly because they have much more demand and lot more money floating around them, when you go to little town (90 - 100K) that have a Rolex AD, they are much more appreciative of your business
Is it actually true or delusional that Rolex ADs care about whether you're a genuine buyer or a flipper? It feels more and more like you have to pass a lie detector if you wanna buy a Rolex.
The ADs are working hand in hand with the grey market in today’s watch economy. In fact, most of these hard to get models change hands between dealers many times before they find a risk of an actual person….a person willing to pay $30k+ for a SS chronograph :)
I am not sure what your experience has been with AD's, but the expectation is that you as a nobody walking in to your local AD that has not spent $250,000+ at the AD are not getting any Rolex sports steel model. I had one AD try to get me to buy a $40,000 JLC watch first to start the relationship. So I do not feel bad for any customer using the same tactics back to the AD. I know there are some exceptions, but the AD gives preference to its large "whale" customers. Therefore, if a customer says I will buy this hard to move piece and expect something in return, that is just good negotiating. AD's owe us nothing, and it truly comes down to what you can negotiate. For the record, it is a proven fact that many AD's are selling steel sports models DIRECT TO THE GREY MARKET. This is confirmed by several grey market channels on TH-cam.
Why would a smart person buy from a company that refuses to produce the products people wants? Asks you to buy a bunch of crap that you don't want in order to maybe have a chance to buy the product you wanted some day.
I just realized, after watching this video, that I have spent $30k at a Rolex AD (2 Rolex, 1 Cartier and 1 Omega) so I guess I don't have to worry about having a poor relationship when I get on a wait list for my Day Date.
you just exposed my strategy, I was planning on telling my AD that I will buy their slow moving Breguet if they will sell me the Cermit... both I will use personally
LOL John Wick, I just posted about Keanu buying 5 Subs 4 for his JW4 Stunt men and one for himself. But I can't get my local dealer to sell me any 1 steel sport model. How Ironic.
I went to an AD a few months ago that I had spent $0 with previously. Talked to them about a Submariner for my covid/divorce/promotion watch and two weeks later they called me with a Sub, which I bought. I've been back a few times (wearing the Sub) and am on the list for the Green OP, but still haven't spent another dime there. I did buy the saleslady a gift card to a spa, but that's just how I roll.
I stopped by my Rolex AD recently and the display cases were nearly empty. The DO NOT engage in marking the prices up, or forcing you to buy something else just to get what you want.
Rolex will probably always be king, but this is why Omega and Grand Seiko have been taking huge chunks of the market recently. Also, why Tudor is making leaps and bounds because they are high quality, well priced, and attainable. A wise man/woman once said, "You buy a Rolex to impress other people. You buy a Grand Seiko to impress yourself."
FYI: AD in Jakarta, Indonesia does bundling and it is a pitty In UK, the AD in Nottingham will hold your warranty card for 1 year to discourage flipping after buying. They also used a wait list and would call you once your turn was up.
One of the rolex sales person in senayan city also sells backdoor directly to their friends who are resellers. i knew this because the sales person offered me his reseller's friend number through Whatsapp for the same model i was waitlisted for but for higher price.
The problem is everyone wants the same thing and there are bunch of other watches that dealer can’t sell. What you expect them to do? With that said, if the manufacturer starts producing bunch of those popular models and customers stop buying because it is “overrated”. Getting the balance right is tougher than you thought 😂
Bruce. You're starting to sound like PaulT. I stopped watching his negative spins on things that are none of his business. If you buy something, a home, a car, or whatever., you own it. if you decide to sell it (for more than you paid or less) it's your choice. You buy and sell watches in your collection and sometimes make money. Are you a flipper? How long does one hold an object before they can sell it according to your standards? (Vacheron Overseas maybe) A week, A month? A year. Get back to watch reviews and get away from the opinion pieces.
You may not be familiar with my channel. I love flipping and never advocate for keepers. But I am not a reseller nor do I try to take advantage of a quick 1000 bucks. I'm going to do more topic videos in relation to my regular reviews. If that bothers you, feel free to unsubscribe. Thanks!
Several months ago I called a local AD that I don’t have any history with about getting on the waitlist for a steel sub and got refused straight away. Last week I walked into the same AD with the intention of just looking at and try on some models and was offered to be put on list for a sub after having a quick conversation about watches with their manager.
I don't think this is unreasonable though. Imagine how many calls these ADs get every day asking the same question as you. I was literally standing with my AD once having a conversation before I bought my Santos off of him and he gets a call from a complete stranger asking if he can buy a steel Daytona ... a STEEL DAYTONA! lol Like come on ... The Daytona is genuinely my grail and I have an outstanding relationship with two Rolex ADs, but even I know that I'm waiting years for that. Bottom line is they will take you much more seriously if you step foot in the store and have a conversation face to face.
Hi Bruce. I am following your channel in youtube and like your videos. I have a question i want to buy a rolex datejust two tone 28 and there are two options unworn 2016 for 10500 and brand new for 12700 which one do you recommend? I appreciate if you can help me.
I have dreamed about owning a Daytona since I was little. My grandpa was a big racing fan (as am I) and near the end of his life, he bought one, wore it for the last 7-8yrs before he died and when he passed, I was young. I said I wanted it, no one took me seriously and my uncle sold it back in 2012 on eBay. Was one of the old zenith powered ones. If I can buy one at retail in the next 3 years, I will be thrilled. There is one AD here and they are very nice but "don't do waiting lists" and go off relationships which I think means I won't get one from them. Still gotta try. I have considered buying other watches, bought other watches and been disappointed. I wish I wanted something else but I have dreamed about one of them being mine for 25yrs, what's another 3-5yrs of waiting to not pay 3x retail. I think they just don't want people buying to flip so I have just gone in and talked to them a bit, bought my wedding ring there, had some work done on my wife's ring and hope that they realize I just love watches and that is the one my heart has been set on for so long.
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Most AD’s are horrible, I don’t feel bad for anything a buyer does to them.
@Yakut58 He thinks they could order a million pepsis if "they wanted to" and has no concept of supply and demand. He has no idea how many people want these watches and that the ADs have no control over what they receive and when.
@DocScoot years back was 100% different than what the Rolex market is today. You used to be able to find Rolex sports models sitting in the cases. You would never see that today.
@DocScoot yes it has gotten wayyy crazier since then!
Ofc, the poster gets 'youtube celebrity treatment' when he walks into an AD. Cant speak or wrap his head around reality of this topic for common folk.
@DocScoot mate back in 2013-2014, you could just walk in without any purchase history and buy the Sub Hulk at retail price, ADs were keen on getting rid of Milgauss and Explorers, you could even get a 10% discount for em. That's all history for the past few years, even for the Explorer 1, I've read reports where people have waited for 18 months and still nothing.
These AD's are digging their own grave... More and more watch brands sell via internet directly and people are willing to buy on the internet... The dishonesty of these AD's will only accelerate their demise...
There’s nothing like an honest Rolex dealer. You’re obviously smoking the good stuff.
All dealers are the same. I worked at a Rolex boutique and I can assure you that their is a "candy book" and with names of people and how much they have spent. The wealthiest spenders will always get the sports watches.
@@leshiro5574 I thought that was common knowledge already lol
And here i am, waiting for that sub for nearly 4 years on these ‘honest’ AD list, and yet every year there are brand new ones selling on the grey market… honest my ass
@@ichimonjee it's time to accept that Rolex is now out of your price range. Look to Tudor.
@@leshiro5574 ha, same story with Tudor in the last 2 years. Gotta be a big spender.
This video is one of the best arguments for finding another brand to enjoy that I’ve heard. This is not a game we should have to play. I think Rolex is shooting themselves in the foot hard right now, and are probably going to lose a generation of enthusiasts to this kind of silliness.
Maybe they don't care, casuals only know Rolex.
Their brand recognition is strong enough to play this kind of game. Almost, every people who make it will own/buy a Rolex. Enthusiasts just make a tiny fraction of the customer base.
Bingo. Like Bose speakers. The uninformed think they’re the best because they advertise the most
tons of great brands in the Rolex price ranges making truly special pieces.
agree, no need for me to buy a Rolex-Prolex
You are wrong Bruce, all ADs use those practices, there is no way I can get a steel sports model, I am not offered those models even if they have them.
A genuine inquisitive question is how would you suggest that they deal with the problem they face where their demand outweighs their supply up to & over 200% (I have seen my local AD’s “register of interest”)
Of course they will have preferred trusted & proven & unfortunately wealthy customers that have built there relationship over many years or purchases & they do not want to be part of the flipping dilemma which is to blame for this hype over unattainable models so I genuinely would like to know how you think or how you would deal with the situation also given that as we know they have to conform to very strict rules from Rolex themselves or risk losing their authorised status that makes them stand out from any other non authorised jewellers in their town/city!?
@@paulw4904 You are just confirming that all Rolex ADs are "bad ADs" (following Bruce's definition), so Bruce is wrong in his video. And, since I only want one Rolex, I cannot buy it and will not be offered it.
So, the dealers do not hate the customers offering them to buy several pieces to get a Rolex, it is what they want to hear and some customers try whatever the can to get a piece.
First come first serve, it's a store.
JAPD, you are 100% correct!
Sorry Bruce, I think the demand for Rolex has turned more ADs into those ‘bad’ ones you referenced at the start. Day after day, week after week, I see the same people flipping new SS Rolex sport models. Yet walked in with cash to buy for your 40th and you’re laughed out of the store. ADs are destroying the Rolex brand.
Absolutely they are. We have 3 in Sydney, Australia and they are all unethical empty vessels.
@@galaga8834 totally agree mate. The Australian ones are horrific.
@@galaga8834 they aren’t empty, they just don’t want to sell to you
@@cartierwatchnerd But they did once.
@@galaga8834 sure but now Rolex are in demand so unless you have a pre existing relationship you won’t get anything.
“Good authorized dealers” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Oxymoron 😂
Yeah, the one the sold a watch to Bruce
Not with Rolex, been to ADs all over the globe and rarely are they even knowledgeable about their product
All bs artists. Cant stand these R AD's. I dont get how they dont sell you a watch if you never bought a watch from them before. How someone can get their foot in the door. Pos
@@Umair23 exactly the brand does it to itself.
My local ad is one of the bad ones. All of these games are the reason I will be buying Grand seiko and others from now on.
Amen to that. I bought my snowflake 3 years ago at a GS boutique and it was an incredible experience, the only problem they gave me was having to choose between the snowflake and a limited edition whirlpool.
@@whereRbearsTeeth their movement is far better than rolex. I'm with you on the bracelets
@@whereRbearsTeeth I think you need to do more research on Japanese watches and their stunning movement
Sorry man, I think you’re off on this one… As much as I want to believe you, the grand game has turned most ADs into bad apples. I walked into my local AD genuinely wanting to pick up my one and done Rolex piece the Explorer 1, and I was told in my face, plain as day, that I stood no chance (zero, nada) without purchasing any of their two-tone pieces.
When Random Rob bought his 41mm nd sub in his vid, he mentioned Lucido as being one of those ADs that are “different”, that they’ll help you without you needing to help them offload some of their current stock. My jaded af self doesn’t believe one inch of that story.
I feel the same as you, there’s a reason why he continues to mention Lucido. I’m sure there was an implication that he would lead a good amount of business and consumer traffic their way. No knock, as he’s earned that privilege, but I don’t think the average person is getting it as quickly as he did without 60K subscribers and counting lol
Remember Rob bought off the back of someone else, so anything Rob says is moot, because his experience doesn't reflect what a normal person will expect
While I agree with all you have said I was glad to see that you said “most” which is what I agree with the most but I have been fortunate to have experienced a good AD so can honestly say there are albeit very few from the general consensus some “good” ones around but I guess it’s pot luck depending on where & who your local one happens to be! I wouldn’t suggest being an arse kisser but patience & good nature goes a long way if you don’t have the money to just buy your way in.
@@cashivan that’s a good point as well.
@@cashivan Great point.
Here's my problem with Rolex: I do like their watches. They produce classic, beautiful designs. However, unless I'm wearing a Dior suit every day, everybody who looks at me wearing one is either; 1. Going to assume it's fake. 2. Is going to assume I paid way over what it's actually worth. or 3. Is going to assume I sucked off an AD to get it. It takes everything away from what makes a Rolex cool. So just from a values point of view, I'm sticking with Omega. It's not a lesser choice. I would buy a Rolex in addition to Omega if this nonsense wasn't going on. But I'd be ashamed to have one on my wrist nowadays.
Exactly, first thing I think when I see someone wearing a Rolex is wanker.
@@Angry_Gnome yep. That’s one of the reasons why I went Tudor as well. I refuse to pay over retail for anything. Got a BB black sitting on my wrist as I type this. Walked in the AD, they had a ton of watches and 30 minutes later walked out with the Black Bay.
@@whereRbearsTeeth Someone's triggered
Ebony Jim. Get off your high horse. Rolex is way better than Omega and you know it. The Speedy is only only Omega worth anything.
@@martymcfly5782 in what universe can any rational person actually claim what you just claimed?
I don't know where you find those 'good' ADs you are referring to, but here in Asia they sell everything to flippers (or at least 90% of what they get). Think about it, where do you think all the independent dealers get their brand new Rolex from? They have all the hard to get models, brand new (maybe 1-2 weeks old) and in unlimited numbers. They don't have something you want, tell them and 2-3 days later they have it. Brand new. It's a myth that ADs sell watches to regular clients at retail price without any kickback/benefit.
Rolex has a problem coming in 5 years. Absolutely terrible brand experience and the latest statement - it's not our fault, it's up to the ADs - smacked of laziness.
Well, there won't be any AD's in 5 years. Problem solved.
@@williamcoolidge9884 I get the distinct impression that Rolex likes avoiding responsibility for this situation. So the ADs are a convenient device for them.
@@ianwillo people have been saying that for ages. The thing is people like hard to get products. That's why gold holds value or diamonds or that mona lisa painting. It holds value. Esp with fiat money being printed indiscriminately
I had a great experience with my AD this weekend
I have suggested for the last 5 years that Rolex should take orders direct like Tesla does, and deliver through the AD's. Rolex can also control that customers are not buying to flip since it can store in a database how many models you have bought.
Rolex Authorized Dealers hate when you do this...
Go in and try to buy a Rolex!
I’ve never asked a Rolex AD about a sports model without having them basically laugh in my face. So honesty gets you nowhere with these people in my personal experience.
Why would they? I mean put yourself in their shoes. If i was working as a sales exe in a Rolex AD, why would I go out of my way to get a rolex sports model for someone who i don't know, probably is a one off buyer or may be a flipper? Might as well sell it to someone i know, has a track record of buying including non sports model and someone i can rely on to help me hit my sales target to move those hard to move pieces in return for 1-2 sports model. Win-win situation for me the sales person, my shop and rolex.
@@xxxcool2565 Good sales people know how to build long-term relationships with new customers. Luxury watches are not just transactional sales. Good businesses always are looking to grow with new customers. My experience is the Rolex AD is just an order taker. The AD uses the excuse "its supply & demand", but I found out through TH-cam that the AD is selling direct to the grey market to make more profit. The point is that every business treats customers as long term relationships and no need to play games. I am not expecting to buy a Daytona, but I am a watch collector and would buy from my local AD if they would have worked with me to get an entry level Oyster Perpetual. Simply put, healthy relationships are two way not one way. I found other great brands and my AD is the grey market.
Pro tip: If you go in with a gun and a ski mask they give you all the watches for free!
Yes and later you even get a very long free holiday in a zero star hotel😉
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bro you’ll still need a purchase history
Thanks i'll def be trying that!
Lol, in reality, they fill the shop with a thick cloud of smoke, auto shut the doors and the cops are there in 3.5 secs!
Just get rid of ADs and sell direct to the consumer. This is why i bought Omega for 1/3 the price
Huh? Customer walks in the store and wants to buy whatever is for sale and that is a problem? Ridiculous....
I really wanted a Rolex, but all the drama in the past couple years has turned me off the brand.
Says a guy who owns several, would know several ADs and has a huge internet following. Try being a normal and finding a "good" AD haha keep smoking crack bro
It's just unfortunate that Rolex has degenerated their customers and ADs into what is essentially drug dealing. It cheapens the whole process and the brand IMO.
You sound like one who doesn’t have the means to purchase a Rolex. 😂😂😂
@@kpcsr415 already owned one. Try again.
Extremely cheap, who has time for that garbage.
I don't think drug dealers put their clients on a wait list.
Drug dealers are way more friendly and open than this, lmao.
Hard disagree with this video, and I have never flipped a watch in my life. No brand is worth this amount of hassle, and I can't fault consumers for taking advantage of the system, since that's what every AD is doing as well. This video gives me the impression that you chatted with an AD and are just publishing their own take on the matter. I absolutely hate scalpers who take advantage of temporary lapses in supply (i.e. next gen gaming consoles right now), but I feel no animosity toward Rolex flippers. No offense Bruce, but didn't you just make a video talking about how you flipped your Vacheron? I really don't see how flipping it right away vs. 3-6 months later means all that much, you still profit in the end if the piece is desirable enough that the used price is worth more than retail. In the end, salesman should not have to care what you do with the watch after you purchase it. You bought it, it's yours, flip it if you want. I understand that they want to sell to people who will actually wear it, but again, this is Rolex's fault for limiting supply to make their brand seem more exclusive.
Rolex (the manufacturer) does not interact with the end customer (unless the sale takes place via own boutique), hence it is the AD’s job to screen and filter out flippers. If it’s for lack of training - train the seller, if it’s for cooperation in some messed up profit sharing scheme - fire the seller. It’s no rocket science that no customer / watch enthusiast needs 2-3 steel sport watches from the same brand every single year, so in most cases it’s not a lack of training…
I buy a lot so my guy(who sorta rides the line between AD and grey) asks me to not sell the piece for a year. I've never sold one, but I also wouldn't buy as much if I didn't get a kick out of watching the price grow. So everyone actually likes the existing situation, apart from watch nerds.
I flip 'em yo!
I think I could agree more with you
Aren’t the people willing to pay $30k for an $15k watch just as much to blame?
Yeah its a whole eco-system where everyone is to blame. I saw a watch video with Producer Michael and an AD or grey marked dealer and they talk Patek and Richard Mille plus others. It was the same crazy retail priced watches selling for 2-3-4 times more on grey marked or even used. Mind-boggling 🤯. Who buys these watches, rich athletes, rich Asians, Gulf Arabs or criminals... WHO ???
@@larsstougaard7097 People with more money than sense. We live in a world, where a lot of people have money to burn and they spend it on certain luxury goods, and it must be certain brands, usually the hype brands, to show off. It is what it is.
I would say all of the above, and in general people with money.
@@larsstougaard7097Ver well said. This screws anybody who might have wanted a lower tier Rolex for the specs or heritage, not just as a status symbol. Now it’s spreading to other brands.
There is a jewelry store by me and they sell second hand watches. They had a while dial stainless steel Daytona for $37,500 and a GMT-Master II Pepsi for $22,000. At the end of the day you just have stainless steel watches when you could have either gotten a Patek Philippe Calatrava 5227J yellow gold that retails for $37,850 or get 3 to 5 non-Rolex watches for the same amount. It's just not a good value for money to buy Rolex at a premium.
The only people that can get a steel sports Rolex are those who either buy an expensive Rolex that most people can't afford like a Day-Date or a solid gold sports watch like a gold Submariner or GMT-Master II first. I don't want to play that game.
I mean society in the last 2 years has proven how stupid most people have become so, can't say I'm supprised
Can't say I struggle to feel sorry for people that sell overpriced and hyped watches. That and the fact Rolex are such an unimaginative choice. "why did you buy that Rolex?" "I bought it cos its a Rolex!" Wow.
Couldn’t agree more 👍
I have a Rolex bluesy it's a great watch😁😁😁😁😁
@@jameswilson8820 My condolences for you and your watch 🤢
Well, it has worked for over a century so they are doing something right.
@@stevebennett7783 Spoken like a jealous person.
Bruce wish this would really work. Been honest with ADs....been told 'no thanks'. While at the same time seen other people walk in and walk out with a nice Rolex bag!! it's depressing
As long as buyers will continue to buy mass made Rolex watches at ridiculous prices ADs will Continue to take advantage of the situation.
Unfortunately, I wish good AD'S were in the majority, but no, they're definitely in the minority. There's a reason that most of the sought after watches go straight to the grey market. Here's the deal, the AD does a deal with their "customers" to sell it, flip it, share the profits.
Dude I’ve been on a “waitlist” for a Pepsi gmt master 2 since it came out with about 4 ad’s. I’ve told every single one that I want a hot dog engraved on the case back to honor a friend and mentor who is no longer here. Still waiting for a single call. Seen all 4 of them a few times a year to check in. Rolex is a joke, their ad’s are a joke and the whole industry is a joke. Fairly certain that the hot dog on the case back is a pretty good indication that I’d keep it forever but I don’t have deep pockets and I’m not some chump that feels like a watch is something that I should have to spend money on watches I don’t want nor should have to beg to get. Until all this crap blows over and people stop acting like fools for these superfluous material items the average man has a better chance of winning the power ball than getting a popular Rolex.
@r2l100 you are not wrong about that
Mitch, "if I may" mate over here in Australia what's happened is a strange vibe that is (FOMO), all this stems from Covid over the past 2 years and the Boomers or 50s and over having real money to basically burn due a reality check and the fear of death having been put in them. There have been thousands of new cars, 70k caravans, 100k Land Cruisers, Land Rovers, 100k Tesla's bought. These Boomers have knocked the doors off the prestige Jewellery and watch AD here in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne to get their hands on a once in a lifetime piece of jewellery or that special occasion Rolex. Mostly older people are becoming very ill or dieing, thus creating a mental crisis for thousands . not only for the Boomers but also their children for its their inheritance thats disappearing before the eyes. Omega is getting hit too, even Grand Seiko are "taking orders" their only second to Rolex & Omega over here. So in a few years I expect we will see plenty of the VHTF Omega and Rolex pieces available. I love Rolex only for the sum of what one is, and at 58 and after over 4 decades of Swiss Dive Scuba watches, all automatics and all well worn, my view is Rolex in 2022,do have the best built cases, bracelets & engineered "automatic" movements dial materials on the market with GS a close second for pure perfection of function. All I can say is keep the dream alive, be patient. From personal experience we know real lifelong friends are rare. Cheers, Johno. Brisbane down under. :)
I understand that flippers are villains here… but as long as there are people who are willing to pay 200% retail this will always be the case. I’d love to meet someone or hear someone’s thought process on why they can justify paying grey market prices for a Rolex. TBH, I’ve not seen anyone on TH-cam talk about this. Can you look into this? Would be an interesting video!
People paying more for a submariner than a Glashutte SeaQ. Doesn't make any sense to me. You want an investment, buy the stock market. You want a watch, get the best one you can get for your money.
Offer/demand, grey market price is market price. Retail price means nothing. It’s like speaking about the par value of a stock, it is irrelevant. If rationality was involved, people would buy 10 dollars watches that keep better time. This is not about rational value, we re talking about luxury goods
It’s all dealer to dealer
If Rolex could increase production this will be a different story. No matter LUX goods are. My two cents
To answer your question, and foster good honest discussion - I purchased my Explorer 124270 grey market. I sold my 126200 DateJust (black dial, smooth bezel, oyster bracelet) and Kurono Tokyo Toki and paid the difference. The difference for my Explorer ended up being about $1,000. I didn’t mind because I didn’t want to wait as I’m impatient, and I have no spend history with any AD, and don’t plan on building one. I understand why folks wouldn’t agree with going grey, but it works for me and I’m blessed to be able to financially.
I was on a list for less than 12months, and my local AD in Birmingham UK called saying he’d got a Rolex that I had showed an interest in. DJ41 black dial, no not a big hitter but I was over the moon with my purchase, and certainly won’t be flipping it. Couple of days later I was in another shopping mall where they had a yacht master in the window, display model only, I asked to try it on as I thought this is the nearest to trying on a submariner, after talking for a while he actually told me he had a sub in the back, no date. I tried it on and loved it. I would have purchased it on the spot, he looked me in the eye and said we,re very selective to who we sell to🤣🤣 the store is actually connected to where I purchased the DJ41🤣🤣 I thanked him and walked out. Hopefully 2022 my original AD will come through with my sub or explorer 2🤞🏽🏴🇬🇧
let me tell you what. They hate when you buy the cheapest datejust and wink them for a daytona... but when you buy 5 unwanted gem set or diamond bezel datejust, they will definitely like you and you are definitely a good customer
So how do the Rolex grey dealers for eg in the Diamond District obtain literally hundreds of brand new hard to get Rolex sports watches? The factory isn't selling it to them, the AD's are. It's a vicious cycle that they created from their own greed. Nothing else.
The "funny" thing is the the Pepsi GMT really is my favorite and grail Rolex. However, since I have no purchase history and will not buy on the Grey market, it is pretty much impossible for me to get one.
Go grey
@@Make-Asylums-Great-Again once you go grey
, you’ll never go back😳
I have had 2 ADs, in two different countries who pretty much stated what you said in the intro and it truly appears as Rolex's TTP is to get you to buy 2 to 3 stinkers in their shop so you can buy SS Daytona or Sub, because of these clear tactics, I have given up on Rolex and their corrupt business practices.... bottom line their watches aren't all that and I own a couple
Customers turning 'good' ADs bad? What a crock of shit 😂
Soo... what actually happens at "honest" ADs for a new customer that wants a pepsi or panda.
That's the question that gets to the heart of the matter. I think we know. That customer is gonna get played. The AD is not selling a skydweller to a one-off customer.
I think the problem is this. These are luxury items, difficult to to get at MSRP. In the case of the Pepsi and the Panda Daytona, extremely hard (to practically impossible) to get luxury items at MSRP. Even if flippers didn't exist, the demand would still VASTLY outweigh supply. To many people, they think they are entitled to these pieces if they can afford them at MSRP. That has never been the case for luxury items, or high demand items. To me, it makes sense that if a guy has been a customer for 10, 15 years and he wants a Daytona, he is going to get it before a new customer. It makes business sense. It may not SEEM fair, but from a business standpoint, it is. Now add flippers to the equation and the fact that a Pepsi can turn a 10k profit instantly, Daytonas can instantly turns a 18K profit. Yes, the good ADs won't purposely sell to a known flipper, but what's to stop that great customer from saying, I'm going to do it this one time cause I just can't turn down that kind of profit? We knw it's happening cause there are SOOOO many available on grey market. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if at least half of the Pepsis, Batmans, and Daytonas sold at ADs are flipped almost instantly. They aren't watch enthusiasts, they are money enthusiasts.
That customer is told they will be put on a waiting list and the AD has no idea when they will actually get one. It's the only polite way to say GTFO of my store.
You get nothing, thats what happens. I wanted a Sub AD laughed at me I asked if they had Omega had them show me what I wanted to see and them I told them I want to get it. The salesman said ok let me get it ready for you. I told him sorry you misunderstood me I'm buying it but I didn't say I was buy it from you. I walked out I bough the 300Professional at an Omega AD. Yes Mayors here in Tampa will never get my business. Next is a speedy for Christmas and a nice Seiko for my wife along with some diamond studs.
Don't play the game - it's O N L Y a watch!
Honestly, this is incredibly naive. The vast majority of AD's feed Rolexes to grey market flippers and get kickbacks in cash. This is known to everyone.
ur 100percent right
I went to mayors to look at a pelagos. While I was there they had a GMT master ii on display and I loved it. The first time I had actually seen one in person. I asked if they had a waiting list or something and I was flat out told "buy the pelagos and we will talk". They wouldnt even pretend to put me on a list without buying a $4.5 watch. I turned around and walked out.
Paul I've been there at International Plaza. Asked for a steel sub they laughed at me, I asked them to show me 300m Omega. I told them I'm buying it, the salesman said let me get it ready. I replied. I'm buying it today but not from you. I walked out when home and bough it from Omega online store, delivered 3 days later. Until Rolex opens their own boutiques and sales online the only ones getting one will be Bucs, rays and Lightning players and their families.
@@gito4130 yep. I had to go to the mayors in Bradenton to drop of my speedmaster for some warranty service. Asked about the waitlist on a no date sub and a date just 41. Not sure if I’ll get it but she at least took my name and typed something in the computer. They are way friendlier they. Unfortunately they have nowhere near the inventory of the one in Tampa.
You know, I'm really happy I'm not a Rolex fan. I have a Rolex sports model that was a wedding gift. I'm not comfortable wearing it but it does bring me joy to remember the adventure I was on when my wife and I were married. In today's market, I don't think I would be comfortable with a Rolex from any source. I'd always be plagued by some doubt or regret to wear it.
Of course, I'm always rooting for the underdog, too. Today, the underdog is anyone except Rolex! Haha!
My AD flat out told me that I have to buy their overpriced jewelry or else they won’t sell me a Rolex. I highly doubt that there is a single honest AD left out there.
I’d say your AD is being honest.
Why are you complaining about dishonesty, when your AD is about as honest and upfront as they can be.
@@JamesIdentity It's called Extortion, Mafia been doing it for years, but a Store is suppose to sell product.
Rolex AD's have the business "ethics" of Payday Loan shops!
Love Rolex. Never owned a Rolex. Never been inside of an official Rolex dealer. But hearing everyone’s horror stories dealing with ADs makes me think that I’ll never set foot in one. Looks like I’ll just have to be happy with Omega & Tudor - both just as beautiful as Rolex.
I learned a lot from this video. I’m new to luxury watches and only own one (Tudor BB GMT) and I had no idea that the market was so complex (in a bad way).
The combination of bad AD’s and bad customers has resulted in a market that discourage so many from having any interest in modern Rolexes. Uncool people on both sides spoil it for everyone.😡
So if someone has the opportunity to buy a Cartier Santos and Kermit, they should not go for it if they like both watches?
If the market was “‘discouraged” prices would drop. They don’t drop, so you’re clearly wrong.
That practice is called "tied-sales" and it is forbidden by competition law. A formal complaint should be filed with Rolex or with the Justice Department. I have a GMT Ceramic that is always in the safebox, but if I was going to buy a Rolex today and they did that to me, I'd completely cancel any intention of buying one.
I went to pick up his and hers for our 12th anniversary and I couldn't believe the BS from an authorized dealer. I thought exactly that, how can Rolex destroy their brand like this. They should sell direct consumer from a website and they would kill it. No way in hell I am paying over msrp for 2 watches from some reseller or putting a used watch on my or the wifeys wrist.
What makes you think that everyone who wants to bundle is a flipper though? Sure sounds like that’s what you’re assuming
I can understand the frustration of people who can't get their dream watch but I can't fault people for taking free money. Buy a Daytona for 12k, sell it for 30k the same day, 18k free money. Anyone who says they wouldn't do it out of some "watch enthusiast honor code" or whatever ... come on, BS.
I retired from the fire service 8 years ago and wanted to buy a Rolex Explorer as a retirement gift to myself but have not been able to purchase one I've been on so called lists for 8 years but never heard back.
You deserve better than that 👍
@@ianwillo Thank you 👍
I feel you Retired Marine here wanted to do the same had to get me an Omega. Rolex is dead to me.
Dang..where do you live. Buying a rolex at MSRP was easy 8 years ago.
Random Rob: These watches were still coveted years ago. Here is a crazy idea, but what if Rolex just sells direct (boutique or online) to the public and the middle man AD is removed? The shortages would still exist but the middle man is removed and can sell other watches instead of back door selling to grey market. I have purchased a new Rolex in the grey market when it was still reasonable ($2k premium on a Hulk back in 2018). Would not pay today’s premium. I don’t think there is a solution except for Rolex to increase production to feed the masses which they will not.
Are you hoping Random Rob will come read the comments for Bruce's video here, or are you summarizing Random Rob's thoughts for others?
@@jimlittle5769My thoughts were clear Jim. Can I help you?
@@TTwatchnut Well actually, I didn't find them to be clear that's why I asked. You addressed your whole post to Random Rob. This is a Bruce Williams video, not Random Rob's. That's why I asked. Not sure why the animosity for asking a question, but you be you...
@@jimlittle5769 Jim, allow me to clarify. Was agreeing with RR, but that was not my point. Was expressing frustration with ADs. I’m sorry Jim Little. Are you an AD by any chance? Just kidding. Have a good one JL.
@@TTwatchnut It's all good. Thanks for clarifying. Have a good one.
Yeah have been going to a handful of ADs over the years and several kept pressuring me to buy other watch brands I didn't want like Panerai, Breitling, etc. Finally ended up going to a Rolex Boutique and hit pay dirt. I have a good relationship with them and now I'm on their unofficial preferred list.
Bruce, while I admire your virtuous philosophical view on this matter, the reality is, whether one is a "flipper" or a person truly seeking their grail, they both have to play the same "ladder" game. If I go into an AD without some kind of "relationship" and ask for the next Daytona that comes in, I'll never get one. At least in this current market supply/demand situation.
Wait you actually have to build a relationship with a Rolex dealer to get offered a certain watch? that's pretty exclusive
Tell them what you’re looking for huh?”
So I did this a couple months ago then again last week. 2 diff AD’s……..I got laughed at for asking about a stainless steel Rolex model. At both places.
You’re off on this one
Rolex is trying to prohibit me to sell my property? What a nonsense!
I have been collecting watches for over 20 years . Have not watched yt watch videos for about 8 months and can't believe people are still talking about Rolex. I always wanted a Pepsi GMT but obviously can't get it . Got an Omega world timer and love it. Please stop making Rolex videos in 8 months I hope watch channels have something else to talk about.
Why would watch TH-camrs not talk about the hottest watch brand? The one that gets them the most views. That would be stupid.
lol... come back in 8 months and you'll find twice as many videos on YT talking about Rolex in some form or another. I enjoy the brand and will continue to talk about relevant topics on my varied channel which will include a good dose of Rolex
Might be a good time for another brand to step in and take a piece of the market. People will eventually move on if they really can't find the rolex at lower prices. There's a limit to every product's moment in the spotlight.
Omega they have plenty of great models. 300 professional, speedy, Railmaster and Aquaterra, the new NTD Seamster is beautiful. Rolex has become a status symbol game. Most people that own Rolex do not know anything about horology even gray dealers. its all about the profits.
Breitling is doing pretty well lately... the B01 or B09 is actually designed by the previous Rolex movement guy.
If you can’t get Rolex just get Tudor🤣🤣🤣
Yeah go for Tudor or Omega
I agree with you but... "they don't want to sell those watches to flippers"... And you are one. So explain to me how you got a hulk, hmm?
Tourneau one of the biggest AD’s for Rolex in the US and they do typically what you said , they say clearly you must have a purchase history from other brands we sell then we can get you the Rolex you want, and Rolex US knows that well and still keeps their dealership and never intervene and the official answer from Rolex which I got from them over the phone was “Rolex do not interfere in the management policy of our AD’s”!
When I bought mine this February, they kept asking me questions to determine whether I was a reseller. It was annoying. I still have the watch and plan to keep it until I die.
I wanted a steel datejust. I naively thought i could save and buy one from an AD . Nope , put my name down on 4-5 AD list and nothing . I was told might take 6 months. That was over a year ago . So I brought one used paid slightly more than retail and it was 12 months old . Not perfect but otherwise I waste my life not wearing the watch I dreamed of. The AD knows if I really want it and I will say what do I have to do at which point he says well …
I wouldn’t do that / couldn’t do that . So look at GS , Omega , Brietling etc for immediate service or look at older / vintage Rolex . If we continue to play this game it will never end .
What an incredibly nieve video .. trying to make out that most Rolex ADs are guardiabs of light and justice who dont give out Rolexs to people who spend the most .. I want some if what you are smoking ..
I have been saving and also selling watches to buy a Rolex datejust 36mm which is not a hot watch. Went to 3 ADs in my city. All Rolex displays were empty. I was directed towards other displays for Shinola, Tudor (there was a wait list for the 58 BTW), and Panerai (which I don't like.) So I took that money and bought two watches online. A Black Bay 58 which I also wanted and a GS. The GS is superior to the Rolex I wanted and the black bay means I don't have to settle for an older used sub with unknown service history. At all ADs I was told to buy watches I have no interest in just to be put on a wait list to maybe one day in a few years get a Rolex.
Sad thing here in the Netherlands is that all the AD's here only sell through the back door. Or they even sell brand new watches to as secondhand straight in the AD.
That’s wild! I never thought about them selling new as “used” so they can adjust for the “market” right in the store. Wow
@@Wooooosaaaaaa yup , Gassan diamonds and Schaap & Citroen are both guilty of this. Rolex was even informed but no action was taken.
@@Wooooosaaaaaa they are the two biggest jewelery businesses in the whole of the Netherlands. Locations in airports ect. All with marked up prices.
i bought 1 tudor from an AD years ago. and then i wanted a submariner, the dealer gave it to me. It's actually not as bad as most youtubers make it to be (maybe depending on which city you live in). Because let's not forget those youtubers like nico etc, they're hustlers. they're literally the type of people that AD's don't want to deal with. but unfortunately they're the loudest voice.
People just need an attitude adjustment. Rolex is a brand, not The Brand.
And sometimes an AD says they are going to get you the watch you want (which isn't even overly desired watch by most) and that you're first on the list for that piece, and then crickets. In any event, people who buy hard to get pieces (usually Rolex but not always) for the sole purpose to flip for a profit, really make it hard for ADs that WANT to get pieces to honest customers who want them to keep and enjoy.
I was very lucky that:
1. My AD was great.
2. My grail was a Datejust 36.
For those stuck in this current mess that I (mostly) managed to avoid, you have my sympathies.
I got a black dial OP, love it and may get a Datejust of a different color to complement it, then may be finished because my obsession with watches has become too much!
Date just not hard to get. Try to get a Sub or GMT as your first watch even an Explorer.
Hmm that’s a shame. I currently have an Explorer 124270 as my sole Rolex and don’t desire any other models. I intend for my next purchases to be a Cartier Santos for myself and later on inquire about a Datejust 31 for my wife. I hope they don’t think I’m disingenuous and trying to build some sort of “relationship” for profit. I personally don’t like the larger Rolexes lol 🤷🏽♂️
Great video, and discussion as always!
Don’t do exactly what every single AD suggests you must do. I recently watched a video that exposed the literal criteria for buying high demand Rolex pieces, it was an official document that outlined eligibility and buying history was a key factor.
Wait, you are just describing what all Rolex ADs are doing to their customers, but somehow got it all confused.
How many Rolex sport models have you bought and flipped for a massive profit in the last few years ?
Rolex doesn't need AD's. That's why they will be moving to a boutique business model.
Highly unlikely ... If I recall, I read that Rolex has zero intentions of going to the boutique or e-commerce direction like other brands. They are a manufacturer and intend to stay that way, they do not want to get into distribution. At current rate too, it would make no difference whatsoever if they sold directly to customers. Imagine we could all go on and place an order for a Daytona... the estimated delivery time would be 5+ years I suspect.
I can't find a straight answer to this question; why do A.Ds. care if you resell the Rolex they sold to you?
It is not the dealers business what someone wants to do with a watch that they buy. It is only there business to sell the watch.
One of those bad ADs you mentioned in the early part of your video, Cortina Watches in Singapore does this.
I wouldn't say most because everyone who runs a business knows the inventory needs to move. The only ones that do not operate, imo, as badly as the typical ones are those in boutiques. This is why I'm all for getting rid of AD's that are part of jewelry stores and/or sell other timepieces in favor of Rolex boutique only ADs like Omega has done...
@@bbrebozo6417 well, the one thing good about the "Rolex scarcity" is that it turns many watch and non watch enthusiasts alike onto other watch brands as a viable alternative to scratch the itch imo 😁
I don't agree on this in Bruce. If someone wants to react to a situation that Rolex themselves created it's entirely up to them . Don't we live in a world where if you buy something it's yours?. It's up to the individual to do whatever he wants with something they've bought. It's like Rolex thinks they still own 5O% of the watch. Rolex sucks, they create a bad situation, and if ppl react to that in a way Rolex don't like, then Rolex should sort the situation out. It's all down to them
Pre-pandemic this exact situation happened to me. It put me off at first. So I did end up shopping around to other ADs, found others to be much better.
There are good and bad ones out there. Most of them are good
@@BruceWilliams I find AD in the Big Market like the Major Metropolitan Cities a lot more arrogent, probebly because they have much more demand and lot more money floating around them, when you go to little town (90 - 100K) that have a Rolex AD, they are much more appreciative of your business
Is it actually true or delusional that Rolex ADs care about whether you're a genuine buyer or a flipper? It feels more and more like you have to pass a lie detector if you wanna buy a Rolex.
The ADs are working hand in hand with the grey market in today’s watch economy. In fact, most of these hard to get models change hands between dealers many times before they find a risk of an actual person….a person willing to pay $30k+ for a SS chronograph :)
I dont understand why its so bad to get a discount for buying multiple watches
I am not sure what your experience has been with AD's, but the expectation is that you as a nobody walking in to your local AD that has not spent $250,000+ at the AD are not getting any Rolex sports steel model. I had one AD try to get me to buy a $40,000 JLC watch first to start the relationship. So I do not feel bad for any customer using the same tactics back to the AD.
I know there are some exceptions, but the AD gives preference to its large "whale" customers. Therefore, if a customer says I will buy this hard to move piece and expect something in return, that is just good negotiating. AD's owe us nothing, and it truly comes down to what you can negotiate. For the record, it is a proven fact that many AD's are selling steel sports models DIRECT TO THE GREY MARKET. This is confirmed by several grey market channels on TH-cam.
Why would a smart person buy from a company that refuses to produce the products people wants? Asks you to buy a bunch of crap that you don't want in order to maybe have a chance to buy the product you wanted some day.
To be honest, almost all AD requires you to buy 2 to 3 watches before you can actually get your hands on the Rolex watch that you want. 👎
jump through all the hoops, play the game, overpay and someone glances at your wrist and says - "That is probably a fake"
I just realized, after watching this video, that I have spent $30k at a Rolex AD (2 Rolex, 1 Cartier and 1 Omega) so I guess I don't have to worry about having a poor relationship when I get on a wait list for my Day Date.
Summary: Rolexes aren't watches, but commodities.
When the Shit hits the proverbial Fan they will be worth nothing except for gold and gems in them.
you just exposed my strategy, I was planning on telling my AD that I will buy their slow moving Breguet if they will sell me the Cermit... both I will use personally
LOL John Wick, I just posted about Keanu buying 5 Subs 4 for his JW4 Stunt men and one for himself. But I can't get my local dealer to sell me any 1 steel sport model. How Ironic.
I went to an AD a few months ago that I had spent $0 with previously. Talked to them about a Submariner for my covid/divorce/promotion watch and two weeks later they called me with a Sub, which I bought. I've been back a few times (wearing the Sub) and am on the list for the Green OP, but still haven't spent another dime there. I did buy the saleslady a gift card to a spa, but that's just how I roll.
I stopped by my Rolex AD recently and the display cases were nearly empty. The DO NOT engage in marking the prices up, or forcing you to buy something else just to get what you want.
You surely have retail watch sellers in a pedestal
Rolex will probably always be king, but this is why Omega and Grand Seiko have been taking huge chunks of the market recently. Also, why Tudor is making leaps and bounds because they are high quality, well priced, and attainable.
A wise man/woman once said, "You buy a Rolex to impress other people. You buy a Grand Seiko to impress yourself."
Bravo…..well said
Tudor is what Rolex used to be affordable quality blue collar worker watch.
FYI: AD in Jakarta, Indonesia does bundling and it is a pitty
In UK, the AD in Nottingham will hold your warranty card for 1 year to discourage flipping after buying. They also used a wait list and would call you once your turn was up.
One of the rolex sales person in senayan city also sells backdoor directly to their friends who are resellers. i knew this because the sales person offered me his reseller's friend number through Whatsapp for the same model i was waitlisted for but for higher price.
The problem is everyone wants the same thing and there are bunch of other watches that dealer can’t sell. What you expect them to do? With that said, if the manufacturer starts producing bunch of those popular models and customers stop buying because it is “overrated”. Getting the balance right is tougher than you thought 😂
So what, if someone buys a watch, so what if someone sells that watch. It's theirs. 🤷🏾♂️
Yeah? where are those good ADs; I'd like to know about. I haven't found one in my 20yrs as a watch collector.
Bruce. You're starting to sound like PaulT. I stopped watching his negative spins on things that are none of his business. If you buy something, a home, a car, or whatever., you own it. if you decide to sell it (for more than you paid or less) it's your choice. You buy and sell watches in your collection and sometimes make money. Are you a flipper? How long does one hold an object before they can sell it according to your standards? (Vacheron Overseas maybe) A week, A month? A year. Get back to watch reviews and get away from the opinion pieces.
You may not be familiar with my channel. I love flipping and never advocate for keepers. But I am not a reseller nor do I try to take advantage of a quick 1000 bucks. I'm going to do more topic videos in relation to my regular reviews. If that bothers you, feel free to unsubscribe. Thanks!
Several months ago I called a local AD that I don’t have any history with about getting on the waitlist for a steel sub and got refused straight away. Last week I walked into the same AD with the intention of just looking at and try on some models and was offered to be put on list for a sub after having a quick conversation about watches with their manager.
I don't think this is unreasonable though. Imagine how many calls these ADs get every day asking the same question as you. I was literally standing with my AD once having a conversation before I bought my Santos off of him and he gets a call from a complete stranger asking if he can buy a steel Daytona ... a STEEL DAYTONA! lol Like come on ... The Daytona is genuinely my grail and I have an outstanding relationship with two Rolex ADs, but even I know that I'm waiting years for that.
Bottom line is they will take you much more seriously if you step foot in the store and have a conversation face to face.
Hi Bruce. I am following your channel in youtube and like your videos. I have a question i want to buy a rolex datejust two tone 28 and there are two options unworn 2016 for 10500 and brand new for 12700 which one do you recommend? I appreciate if you can help me.
I have dreamed about owning a Daytona since I was little. My grandpa was a big racing fan (as am I) and near the end of his life, he bought one, wore it for the last 7-8yrs before he died and when he passed, I was young. I said I wanted it, no one took me seriously and my uncle sold it back in 2012 on eBay. Was one of the old zenith powered ones.
If I can buy one at retail in the next 3 years, I will be thrilled. There is one AD here and they are very nice but "don't do waiting lists" and go off relationships which I think means I won't get one from them. Still gotta try. I have considered buying other watches, bought other watches and been disappointed. I wish I wanted something else but I have dreamed about one of them being mine for 25yrs, what's another 3-5yrs of waiting to not pay 3x retail. I think they just don't want people buying to flip so I have just gone in and talked to them a bit, bought my wedding ring there, had some work done on my wife's ring and hope that they realize I just love watches and that is the one my heart has been set on for so long.