I believe the difference between you and Ian is the extra box on top of the brood chamber and that you are not feeding now. I've only had problems with Formic Pro if I didn't have the entrance fully open and if I didn't have a honey super or second brood chamber on top. The bees seam to need extra space and ventilation to move the fumes from the Formic around. Excellent video Peter. Thank you!
Peter, another great video. Greetings from New Brunswick. I finished FORMIC Pro treatment of my 5 hives July 22. Three hives new queens got 2 pads 14 day treatments. Last year's queen and 1 new queen got two rounds of the 10 days treatments. Although I did not open my hives early as you have for the study My observations have mirrored your's. A slight brood break with a quick return to laying. All 5 queens survived. NOD clearly recommends NO feeding (pollen/syrup) and installing a honey super for crowded hives to assist in ventilation. I've followed NOD'S instructions. I'll be doing a mite count later this week.
Ha Peter this was really good I have always used formic till this year and I tried Aipguard I always had put it on them after I pulled the honey.n june, it works good Glad you did this video. Have a wonderful week
Excellent video, excellent observations! This is the only TH-cam video series that actually performs citizen science to observe outcomes to the colony with a Formic treatment, What did I do wrong? Maybe a few things, and feeding syrup wasn’t one of them. I believe the main problem was light hungry colonies. There wasn’t enough resources to provide a buffer. Also my patty might of restricted air movement. 3rd, maybe the pads were too old, but they were still within the expiration dates, so I doubt that was an issue.
Thanks Ian, I would agree those were the top most likely factors, that and timing, Spring build-up vrs summer peak for my hives. My next big question is how well it worked as last year a high % of my colonies did not show the expected effectiveness on mites.
Hello Peter, Just an observation I picked up on this video. Both of the stocks you showed in this video, were double brood chamber colonies, and you didn't show the brood in the bottom chamber. I would expect that the state of the damage to the brood in the bottom chambers, would be very much like that seen in Ian's video. I would also very much expect that the second stock you showed, is now Queenless!!!. I certainly will not be using Formic Acid on my bees. Kind regards, Tony Marsh, 60 + years with bees UK.
While a agree that I would expect the lower brood chambers to be more affected the third colony was a single brood chamber and showed exactly the same. None of them were queenless as frames half full of eggs were seen in all three.
@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer Hello Peter, thank you for coming back on my comment. If it works for you, great, I hope your bees do really well for you. It will be very interesting to see whether of not your superceeded queen mates properly, and the stock suvives the winter. Although I agree that superceeded queens are some of the best, I would be very sceptical of the validity of one that has undergone Formic Asid treatment. I will still not follow this treatment. I won't claim that what I do is the answer, but what works for me, is to feed Thymolized syrup in the autumn and then keep a jar of thymolized syrup, at 2-1 on top of the brood chamber insulated to keep it warm, through the winter. The bees will only take it when they need it as brood rearing starts. This ensures that the mite's breeding cycle is disturbed, and no mites get sealed in the cells, which eliminates the mites. I wish you all the very best with your bees, kind regards, Tony.
The earliest goldenrod is just starting here....rarely contibutes to nectar flow but provided pollen Later species of goldenrod can give a great flow but that has been hit and miss for years now,
I can not figure out why Ian Steppler had such a hard time with Formic (temps?). Peter have you done prior knock downs with OA or a post formic dust up with OA? Thank you.
No but these hives got hopguard a couple of months ago. I suspect the problems that Ian had, and I am only guessing here, was he was in the midst of the Spring build up. If a colony gets knocked back during that time, wether with protien or sugar shortage they take a while too recover. I suspect that knockback with Formic Acid does the same thing. These hives were all at peak population time of year and could also cope with the required ventilation.
Thank you for your video, Peter. Your bees seemed quite defensive. Do you think that was because of the Formic Pro? I am now treating with Formic Pro and noticed a lot more activity at the hives and have seen bees flying 3 - 4 feet above ground, left and right as if searching for something IN THE RAIN. Also got stung when I was about 15 feet from hive.
Certainly all treatments tick off the bees. But It was just that one (second) hive which was really bitchy. I think it was mainly variation in temerment, one or two of my Italians id that way.
Interesting.. My results were the same as Ian, same climate and a week before him. Possibly it's the ratio of nurse bees to foragers or the volume of in and out activities... Idk I just know I'm not risking using it Again.
Ian's were bone dry pretty sure that's the mistake he made. How we learn unfortunately.. Ian trained me to watch the drones to judge virus levels . You have no drones and probably half those bees have some form of k wing and deformed wing virus.. 70% of the mites live in the drone brood and there's a migration happening towards Aug . For whatever reason yours stopped at least 26 days ago.. I was never happy with my chemical treatments until I started doing drone removal.. by adding med frame to the brood nest that gives me two treatments cost nothing. Simple cut out the drones but not all need to leave some open drone brood so that 30% lands in the drone brood.. I would back that up with a apivar treatment lots of open feed and pollen sub hopefully can breed that out of them. .. you were running those vp VSH wouldn't see the virus they drag everything looks different out the front door.. problem is they eat twice as much over winter. Drone brood removal is effective if not more effective than chemicals done right imo ... Doesn't take long for viruses to take hold once that migration starts. Greatful for all the great research fine tuning this method.. done wrong can cause problems as well..
I believe the difference between you and Ian is the extra box on top of the brood chamber and that you are not feeding now. I've only had problems with Formic Pro if I didn't have the entrance fully open and if I didn't have a honey super or second brood chamber on top. The bees seam to need extra space and ventilation to move the fumes from the Formic around. Excellent video Peter. Thank you!
That was indeed one of the biggest differences, that and timing.
Love your channel btw. You are polite, gentle an very informative. I watch you when I find myself frustrsted after a bad bee day!
So nice of you
Peter, another great video. Greetings from New Brunswick. I finished FORMIC Pro treatment of my 5 hives July 22. Three hives new queens got 2 pads 14 day treatments. Last year's queen and 1 new queen got two rounds of the 10 days treatments. Although I did not open my hives early as you have for the study My observations have mirrored your's. A slight brood break with a quick return to laying. All 5 queens survived.
NOD clearly recommends NO feeding (pollen/syrup) and installing a honey super for crowded hives to assist in ventilation. I've followed NOD'S instructions. I'll be doing a mite count later this week.
Ha Peter this was really good I have always used formic till this year and I tried Aipguard I always had put it on them after I pulled the honey.n june, it works good Glad you did this video. Have a wonderful week
Excellent video, excellent observations!
This is the only TH-cam video series that actually performs citizen science to observe outcomes to the colony with a Formic treatment,
What did I do wrong? Maybe a few things, and feeding syrup wasn’t one of them. I believe the main problem was light hungry colonies. There wasn’t enough resources to provide a buffer. Also my patty might of restricted air movement. 3rd, maybe the pads were too old, but they were still within the expiration dates, so I doubt that was an issue.
Thanks Ian, I would agree those were the top most likely factors, that and timing, Spring build-up vrs summer peak for my hives. My next big question is how well it worked as last year a high % of my colonies did not show the expected effectiveness on mites.
Hello Peter, Just an observation I picked up on this video.
Both of the stocks you showed in this video, were double brood chamber colonies, and you didn't show the brood in the bottom chamber. I would expect that the state of the damage to the brood in the bottom chambers, would be very much like that seen in Ian's video.
I would also very much expect that the second stock you showed, is now Queenless!!!. I certainly will not be using Formic Acid on my bees. Kind regards,
Tony Marsh, 60 + years with bees UK.
While a agree that I would expect the lower brood chambers to be more affected the third colony was a single brood chamber and showed exactly the same. None of them were queenless as frames half full of eggs were seen in all three.
@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer Hello Peter, thank you for coming back on my comment.
If it works for you, great, I hope your bees do really well for you. It will be very interesting to see whether of not your superceeded queen mates properly, and the stock suvives the winter.
Although I agree that superceeded queens are some of the best, I would be very sceptical of the validity of one that has undergone Formic Asid treatment. I will still not follow this treatment.
I won't claim that what I do is the answer, but what works for me, is to feed Thymolized syrup in the autumn and then keep a jar of thymolized syrup, at 2-1 on top of the brood chamber insulated to keep it warm, through the winter. The bees will only take it when they need it as brood rearing starts. This ensures that the mite's breeding cycle is disturbed, and no mites get sealed in the cells, which eliminates the mites. I wish you all the very best with your bees, kind regards,
Tony.
Could you pull out the bottom board so we can see how many dead mites there are?
I was at open hive at Shaker Village with state inspector. She said mite drop count after Formic Pro was best a week after treatment.
As brood with dead mites emerges.
what are the yellow weed flowers in the background? goldenrod, ironweed, wingstem?
The earliest goldenrod is just starting here....rarely contibutes to nectar flow but provided pollen Later species of goldenrod can give a great flow but that has been hit and miss for years now,
I can not figure out why Ian Steppler had such a hard time with Formic (temps?). Peter have you done prior knock downs with OA or a post formic dust up with OA? Thank you.
No but these hives got hopguard a couple of months ago. I suspect the problems that Ian had, and I am only guessing here, was he was in the midst of the Spring build up. If a colony gets knocked back during that time, wether with protien or sugar shortage they take a while too recover. I suspect that knockback with Formic Acid does the same thing. These hives were all at peak population time of year and could also cope with the required ventilation.
Thank you for your video, Peter. Your bees seemed quite defensive. Do you think that was because of the Formic Pro? I am now treating with Formic Pro and noticed a lot more activity at the hives and have seen bees flying 3 - 4 feet above ground, left and right as if searching for something IN THE RAIN. Also got stung when I was about 15 feet from hive.
Certainly all treatments tick off the bees. But It was just that one (second) hive which was really bitchy. I think it was mainly variation in temerment, one or two of my Italians id that way.
Peter a question what type of bee suit do you recommend?
I have tripple layered suits made for my store, They are great.
Hi Peter. Does Ian stepper have some connection to formic pro performance? I'm not sure what the connection is.
?
Ian did a great series of videos this Spring following what happened in his brood chambers. Scared the crap out of me! Fortunately not repeted here!
Interesting.. My results were the same as Ian, same climate and a week before him. Possibly it's the ratio of nurse bees to foragers or the volume of in and out activities... Idk I just know I'm not risking using it Again.
Perhaps try is as a lated season treatment?
@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer I'm too scared haha. I was surprised to see you didn't have dead brood and larvae..
Shouldn't the formic pro been on top of the top brood box?
Only in single brood chambers,it should be in the middle of double brood chambers
I see goldenrod a month early I'm the background.
We rarely get nectar from the first 2 weeks of goldenrod bloom but the species that blooms in mid August can give us a good flow but not very often
Ian's were bone dry pretty sure that's the mistake he made. How we learn unfortunately.. Ian trained me to watch the drones to judge virus levels . You have no drones and probably half those bees have some form of k wing and deformed wing virus.. 70% of the mites live in the drone brood and there's a migration happening towards Aug . For whatever reason yours stopped at least 26 days ago.. I was never happy with my chemical treatments until I started doing drone removal.. by adding med frame to the brood nest that gives me two treatments cost nothing. Simple cut out the drones but not all need to leave some open drone brood so that 30% lands in the drone brood.. I would back that up with a apivar treatment lots of open feed and pollen sub hopefully can breed that out of them. .. you were running those vp VSH wouldn't see the virus they drag everything looks different out the front door.. problem is they eat twice as much over winter. Drone brood removal is effective if not more effective than chemicals done right imo ... Doesn't take long for viruses to take hold once that migration starts. Greatful for all the great research fine tuning this method.. done wrong can cause problems as well..
The general condenses is that drone brood removal is not effective as acids or thymol. Where are you getting that information from? Thank you.