Russ, these technical videos have been 🔥🔥🔥! I’m a fan of the flat bar. It’s great for the attack position, but riding 100 miles with one position is getting tougher as I get ‘more mature’, ahem. Thanks for keeping me informed with these videos. Keep them coming, brother!
Carpal tunnel is always going to be an issue with any bar as long as you 'grip' the bars, plus we do a lot of gripping with our hands on a daily basis. But on rides, fingers splayed with relax palms can help (smooth surfaces obviously), along with daily therapy like deep tissue hand & forearm massages, vibrating massager & ice cup massages works wonders too! Anytime you ride you have to do any one of those things afterwards. The pain will subside, but it will take some time..
I've had these on my Ogre for a few months now and absolutely love them. The weight is noticeable I think, but for longer mixed terrain rides it levels out with the comfort. It's currently winter in Australia so grip isn't that much of an issue, but I'm thinking of putting some bar tape where the sweep meets the the rise because like you said, it's good to be able to move your hands in for longer road stretches.
Thanks for moving away from drop bars and reviewing more upright stuff. I can't understand the gravel obsession with drop bars these days. The braking position is less than ideal for really rough or technical stuff, and the bar ends can come back and hit the riders thighs with very technical trail.
I think I must be the yin to your yang Russ...a really tall guy who dislikes drop bars! These look good. But having ridden a lot of flat/swept bars lately, I’m not onboard with the extreme width. A couple centimetres lopped off those would cut out the ‘hulk parachute’ riding stance and also make tight, tree-lined trails easier.
There is some space next to the grips to put some SQLab Inner Bar Ends for some more variety. I have cut down my persuader bar after a while. So far the best setup and I have no problems with my wrists or elbows any longer.
I've found that I actually prefer the forward loop on the Jones bar for mounting bags; it gets the bags away from the cables and gives more clearance for my hands at the controls. The 45 degree sweep is extreme for a dedicated trail bike, but for bike packing I think Jones Loop bars are the king, especially taking into consideration their multiple hand positions.
Maybe you could use longer grips similar to a Jones setup and give yourself an optional hand position, instead of cutting it down. Some handlebar tape from the levers to the first bend might be nice with the togs.
Russ, nice video and similar experiences. Been using the Persuader for about 6 weeks now including just a bunch of use on Utah singletrack (I live in PNW) Had been using a Jones Carbon Loop previously on my Jones spaceframe, but still had issues with numbness and thinking mine was the 45 degree sweep, but 20 degree (a 20/20 answer bar) wasn't enough. The 30 degrees seems to be the sweet spot and like the wide width (easier in the dessert than the NW forests though) for hand positions and have some spirgrips (sorta inner bar ends) mounted at the bend for a inner hand position. Its possible it's the 50mm rise though as well, but either way still using them over the Jones even with the 400-500 g weight penalty. Will have to dial in my bag mounting again (sue a BxB on the Jones that rested on the Truss fork) as I used a loop bag from Broadfork for all my dynamo pieces (cache batter, cables, etc.). Makes me think a Moonmen moon riser might work too, but even pricier!
I bike that's fitted and/or built around a lot of backsweep (i.e. with a longer stem, or reach) would not hinder even the most shredy double black diamond mountain biker. Often times with DH and enduro a lot of comparisons are made back to the moto world and the fact is that in that realm handlebars often have more sweep than a lot of stock bars on mtbs today. I've been riding mtb exclusively for a while and imo 15 degrees of sweep is the minimum. I am riding rigid though so keeping my wrists more comfortable is probably a higher priority than it is for most people.
That nice "flat" upsweep is what I'm missing on my SQ Lab bars. But getting that bar to Europe is more expensive than building a handlebar factory myself and start producing :D Great review though!
I briefly had these,(sold and regretting now) The backsweep isn't an issue at all for mtb trails. My Koga denham satori bar has 34° backsweep.(but 710mm) I may buy this bar again or go with the dream riser, which is just a lighter, cheaper version 780mm vs 800 420grams vs 635?ish 25° BS vs 30° Aluminum? Vs cromoly
Next video Russ will be yelling SEND IT! at passing riders. I've been riding these bars on my Timberjack for a few months. I think they are just slightly too wide for my shoulders, but I love the more upright position it puts me it. These bars at a bit more twitchy on technical/steep climbs, but still prove super stable on descents. Also for me they didn't detract from getting rowdy on rough singletrack. I think the steel actually transfers more vibrations into my hands. I started developing more hand numbness on long hard climbs with these bars. Maybe that is down to body position. I switched to Ergon GA3 grips and that helped a bit. The extra weight just helps you go faster on the down hills. Daniel is a rad guy and went out of his way to get me these bars as soon as they were available. I don't think these will be my forever bars but they are pretty great at what they do.
These look interesting but I wish there was a way to try them before committing what borders on $200 CAD (US $ conversion and lousy math 😳). I am considering a rigid flat bar "mountain" bike for gravel/adventure/light touring (eg: Kona Unit X, Karate Monkey, etc) but find flat bars uncomfortable on long rides. Does the sweep and rise help negate some of the single position flat bar effect? They look like bolt on aero bars would fit the flat centre section with possible bar ends to add another position albeit odd looking and wide reach on this bar. By the way, keep up the party pace. At 65 I am not sure I want to scare the neighbourhood much longer by squeezing into Lycra and riding my drop-bar bikes 😳
Those bars look sweet. Thank you for the review . Also , it’s awesome you’re doing some mtb reviews . Do you have any plans to review the Surly Karate Monkey?
The Soma Dream bars are almost identical to these in an aluminum version for half the price if people want to try this setup out without dropping $130.
When did it become OK for a CrMo handlebar, albeit triple-butted and heat-treated, to cost $135? Is it because Tumbleweed is a small company and thus the low production numbers necessitated the higher prices? But look at SimWorks; even their Nitto-made flatish handlebars top out at $120, and CrMo versions are around $70.
@@benzzoy Tumbleweed as far as I know is a one-man company and this is a very niche product. That usually doesn't equal tremendous value, but it seems like a reasonable price to me considering the production runs are probably very small.
@@benzzoy These are expensive bars to produce, made in small batches, are ISO tested for downhill mountain biking, and USA priority shipping is included in the price. It's easy to make a cheap heavy steel bar, but for an 800mm steel bar like this to only weigh 640 grams and pass ISO testing took quite a bit of engineering. We had to retool four times to get it to work!
I’m looking for something just like this for my TimberJack! Maybe closer to 16 degrees of sweep tho…. I’m coming from BikePacking with drops & aerobars. I think I want to continue to have the option of aero bars clipped on to a flat bar. Seem silly? Should I try Moloko instead?
Interesting. I am going to be building up a Surly Ogre pretty soon. That may be a good choice. That's NOT going to be a light bike in any event. But, dang. That bar ain't cheap, is it?
Nice haircut! These bars look a bit wider than normal mountain bike bars. That could be an issue getting through tight places. Not a big deal, probably.
I've been riding a Jones LWB with a truss fork for about a year. I love the bike. Alternate between the 3 inch Maxxis tires and 2.8 Vee Speedster on a second set of wheels to make the swapping easier. While I like the Jones bars, I've been having some wrist issues that seem to be related to the bar angle and I've been thinking of trying something with a more moderate sweep. These might be something to try. I've also been eyeing the Surly Moloko Handlebar - 34 degree sweep, though these are 100 grams heavier than the Tumbleweeds. Just wondering if you have an opinion on the Moloko?
@@408SPLKINGS Thanks. I've made a couple of adjustments in the angle of the bar to the ground(almost flat to slightly angled down) to see if that made a difference. So far nothing I notice. But it's worth a little more tweaking.
I also have a Timberjack with 35mm clamp, but all the bars I'm considering are 31.8. Did you consider switching the stem rather than using a shim? What are the pros and cons?
Hi , I have a surly ogre and I change to Jones bars , I have been doing some gravel but road and trails still main ridding style I. Have arthritis from old fracture and my thumb and next two fingers get numbs, the Jones is good on road , but not so good in gravel , handling the bike has not been easy , do you rec this bars or what other rec you have , thanks
@@PathLessPedaledTV I find that can’t keep bars straight , shift side to side , but that numb if my finger , carpal turnel is the biggest issue , I be posting a video on my Instagram tomorrow from today’s ride , if you could take few minute to see it , you can see @explretheoutdoors
@@mcruzdvm there's a lot of variables. A big one is where your hands are in relation to the steering axis. If they are behind the stem cap this increases steering sensitivity. If your hands are level or ahead of the stem cap (like a road bike) that adds weight and stability to the steering. th-cam.com/video/v78C5Oi7tYk/w-d-xo.html
Stay off the the weed bars and go with the Albatross uprights...and get a Riv! X-gens going retro riding the Rivs! Only way to go! Your neck, shoulders, elbows and wrists will thank you.
nice! A really wide alt bar is unique indeed. My salsa bar bend 2 is nice but too narrow for single track mild aggression. Will look hard at this one thanks!
Yeah, $135 for heavy bars like that seems a bit steep, but I do like the design. See if Tumbleweed can make these in carbon to cut the weight in half :-)
Path Less Pedaled there’s about 6” of flat bar so add in the stem and you’re looking at about 1.75” on either side. I get that they’re different materials and the sweep is slightly different but for the majority of riders, that price will probably be the deciding factor.
Russ, these technical videos have been 🔥🔥🔥! I’m a fan of the flat bar. It’s great for the attack position, but riding 100 miles with one position is getting tougher as I get ‘more mature’, ahem. Thanks for keeping me informed with these videos. Keep them coming, brother!
Carpal tunnel is always going to be an issue with any bar as long as you 'grip' the bars, plus we do a lot of gripping with our hands on a daily basis.
But on rides, fingers splayed with relax palms can help (smooth surfaces obviously), along with daily therapy like deep tissue hand & forearm massages, vibrating massager & ice cup massages works wonders too! Anytime you ride you have to do any one of those things afterwards. The pain will subside, but it will take some time..
I've had these on my Ogre for a few months now and absolutely love them. The weight is noticeable I think, but for longer mixed terrain rides it levels out with the comfort. It's currently winter in Australia so grip isn't that much of an issue, but I'm thinking of putting some bar tape where the sweep meets the the rise because like you said, it's good to be able to move your hands in for longer road stretches.
How are they on dh single track portions?
Thanks for moving away from drop bars and reviewing more upright stuff.
I can't understand the gravel obsession with drop bars these days. The braking position is less than ideal for really rough or technical stuff, and the bar ends can come back and hit the riders thighs with very technical trail.
This looks like a really interesting flat bar! I might get this for my old hybrid.
Also see farr aero flat bars
I think I must be the yin to your yang Russ...a really tall guy who dislikes drop bars! These look good. But having ridden a lot of flat/swept bars lately, I’m not onboard with the extreme width. A couple centimetres lopped off those would cut out the ‘hulk parachute’ riding stance and also make tight, tree-lined trails easier.
Likewise, I'm not comfty with dropbars & prefers my flat or riser bars in the 600-700mm range.
There is some space next to the grips to put some SQLab Inner Bar Ends for some more variety. I have cut down my persuader bar after a while. So far the best setup and I have no problems with my wrists or elbows any longer.
Ive got my old school ritchey bar ends set aside for this purpose. Havent tried it yet, but I do enjoy my velo orange crazy bars.
I've found that I actually prefer the forward loop on the Jones bar for mounting bags; it gets the bags away from the cables and gives more clearance for my hands at the controls. The 45 degree sweep is extreme for a dedicated trail bike, but for bike packing I think Jones Loop bars are the king, especially taking into consideration their multiple hand positions.
Maybe you could use longer grips similar to a Jones setup and give yourself an optional hand position, instead of cutting it down. Some handlebar tape from the levers to the first bend might be nice with the togs.
Alway informational And Laura did a great review on the Ritcheys
Those trails look really nice! Awesome footage :)
That's an interesting bar, thank you for the review.
Russ, nice video and similar experiences. Been using the Persuader for about 6 weeks now including just a bunch of use on Utah singletrack (I live in PNW) Had been using a Jones Carbon Loop previously on my Jones spaceframe, but still had issues with numbness and thinking mine was the 45 degree sweep, but 20 degree (a 20/20 answer bar) wasn't enough. The 30 degrees seems to be the sweet spot and like the wide width (easier in the dessert than the NW forests though) for hand positions and have some spirgrips (sorta inner bar ends) mounted at the bend for a inner hand position. Its possible it's the 50mm rise though as well, but either way still using them over the Jones even with the 400-500 g weight penalty. Will have to dial in my bag mounting again (sue a BxB on the Jones that rested on the Truss fork) as I used a loop bag from Broadfork for all my dynamo pieces (cache batter, cables, etc.). Makes me think a Moonmen moon riser might work too, but even pricier!
I bike that's fitted and/or built around a lot of backsweep (i.e. with a longer stem, or reach) would not hinder even the most shredy double black diamond mountain biker. Often times with DH and enduro a lot of comparisons are made back to the moto world and the fact is that in that realm handlebars often have more sweep than a lot of stock bars on mtbs today. I've been riding mtb exclusively for a while and imo 15 degrees of sweep is the minimum. I am riding rigid though so keeping my wrists more comfortable is probably a higher priority than it is for most people.
That nice "flat" upsweep is what I'm missing on my SQ Lab bars. But getting that bar to Europe is more expensive than building a handlebar factory myself and start producing :D
Great review though!
I just got them sent form the us to EU, and yes, they double in price. SO far though, worth it!
You really need to try a trecking/butterfly handlebar. Almost unlimited hand positions and can be adjusted minutely.
Nice review here of a super bar, Russ. A gent in town has a set so I'll go have a look.
I briefly had these,(sold and regretting now)
The backsweep isn't an issue at all for mtb trails.
My Koga denham satori bar has 34° backsweep.(but 710mm)
I may buy this bar again or go with the dream riser, which is just a lighter, cheaper version
780mm vs 800
420grams vs 635?ish
25° BS vs 30°
Aluminum? Vs cromoly
Next video Russ will be yelling SEND IT! at passing riders. I've been riding these bars on my Timberjack for a few months. I think they are just slightly too wide for my shoulders, but I love the more upright position it puts me it. These bars at a bit more twitchy on technical/steep climbs, but still prove super stable on descents. Also for me they didn't detract from getting rowdy on rough singletrack. I think the steel actually transfers more vibrations into my hands. I started developing more hand numbness on long hard climbs with these bars. Maybe that is down to body position. I switched to Ergon GA3 grips and that helped a bit. The extra weight just helps you go faster on the down hills. Daniel is a rad guy and went out of his way to get me these bars as soon as they were available. I don't think these will be my forever bars but they are pretty great at what they do.
Currently playing around with the grips and planning to put some silicone ESI grips. Should take the bite out.
the bars could be a winner.I have tried the jones bars 660 ml model but hard put stuff on.Thanks for the info.
These look interesting but I wish there was a way to try them before committing what borders on $200 CAD (US $ conversion and lousy math 😳). I am considering a rigid flat bar "mountain" bike for gravel/adventure/light touring (eg: Kona Unit X, Karate Monkey, etc) but find flat bars uncomfortable on long rides. Does the sweep and rise help negate some of the single position flat bar effect? They look like bolt on aero bars would fit the flat centre section with possible bar ends to add another position albeit odd looking and wide reach on this bar.
By the way, keep up the party pace. At 65 I am not sure I want to scare the neighbourhood much longer by squeezing into Lycra and riding my drop-bar bikes 😳
Thank you for sharing!
Those bars look sweet. Thank you for the review . Also , it’s awesome you’re doing some mtb reviews . Do you have any plans to review the Surly Karate Monkey?
Second this, would love to see a Karate Monkey review!
I own a Karate Monkey. I’d love to see that review.
Just got a wet clay
The Soma Dream bars are almost identical to these in an aluminum version for half the price if people want to try this setup out without dropping $130.
When did it become OK for a CrMo handlebar, albeit triple-butted and heat-treated, to cost $135? Is it because Tumbleweed is a small company and thus the low production numbers necessitated the higher prices? But look at SimWorks; even their Nitto-made flatish handlebars top out at $120, and CrMo versions are around $70.
Ohh indeed they look similar, but a bit shorter. Thanks for the heads up
@@benzzoy Tumbleweed as far as I know is a one-man company and this is a very niche product. That usually doesn't equal tremendous value, but it seems like a reasonable price to me considering the production runs are probably very small.
@@benzzoy These are expensive bars to produce, made in small batches, are ISO tested for downhill mountain biking, and USA priority shipping is included in the price. It's easy to make a cheap heavy steel bar, but for an 800mm steel bar like this to only weigh 640 grams and pass ISO testing took quite a bit of engineering. We had to retool four times to get it to work!
I was gonna say the exact same thing. I have them on my Surly Wednesday and love them for singletrack.
I’m looking for something just like this for my TimberJack! Maybe closer to 16 degrees of sweep tho…. I’m coming from BikePacking with drops & aerobars. I think I want to continue to have the option of aero bars clipped on to a flat bar. Seem silly? Should I try Moloko instead?
Yessss i love those bars, i really want some but the price & shipping is just insane (245$cad). Do you know of a close alternative?
Soma Dream riser bar.
They sure look nice...Great review!!
Interesting.
I am going to be building up a Surly Ogre pretty soon. That may be a good choice. That's NOT going to be a light bike in any event. But, dang. That bar ain't cheap, is it?
Nope.
They make a alloy version now 👍👍
Nice haircut!
These bars look a bit wider than normal mountain bike bars. That could be an issue getting through tight places. Not a big deal, probably.
I've been riding a Jones LWB with a truss fork for about a year. I love the bike. Alternate between the 3 inch Maxxis tires and 2.8 Vee Speedster on a second set of wheels to make the swapping easier. While I like the Jones bars, I've been having some wrist issues that seem to be related to the bar angle and I've been thinking of trying something with a more moderate sweep. These might be something to try. I've also been eyeing the Surly Moloko Handlebar - 34 degree sweep, though these are 100 grams heavier than the Tumbleweeds. Just wondering if you have an opinion on the Moloko?
Haven’t had a chance to try the Moloko bar in person. It looks like a lot of bar!
@@408SPLKINGS Thanks. I've made a couple of adjustments in the angle of the bar to the ground(almost flat to slightly angled down) to see if that made a difference. So far nothing I notice. But it's worth a little more tweaking.
Any plan for review surly’s sunrise bars? They are similar but with a bit more rise.
Like them more than the jones bars?
I also have a Timberjack with 35mm clamp, but all the bars I'm considering are 31.8. Did you consider switching the stem rather than using a shim? What are the pros and cons?
Yes. Eventually just changed the stem.
Ritchey Kyote bars are worth a look
Can someone tell which bar is used at 0:19 ?
What's the reason for this bar not being a good choice for rough, technical downhill trail riding? Or technical uphill, too for that matter?
The inward sweep when going down steep terrain isn't as comfortable or as stable than something with less sweep.
I've had these bars for a while but I am I may be having wrist pain with the 30*. It could be other setup issues though. Anybody have any fit tips?
Hey if they don’t work out for you I’d be happy to take them off your hands haha
Tweaking the tilt of this bar has a big effect, I’ve done lots of adjusting the angle to get it perfect for my fit.
@@danielmolloy5776 Thanks!
ERGON GC1 GRIPS
Wow awesome video great job 👍😎🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
Aren't those bars hard to get through a door like an apartment or a house or storm door or patio door
That’s why you can cut them.
What are Bar choices like this for 26mm clamp? Please help - I'm stuck in the past.
None that I know of.
Hi , I have a surly ogre and I change to Jones bars , I have been doing some gravel but road and trails still main ridding style
I. Have arthritis from old fracture and my thumb and next two fingers get numbs, the Jones is good on road , but not so good in gravel , handling the bike has not been easy , do you rec this bars or what other rec you have , thanks
It depends. What's the problem in handling on gravel?
@@PathLessPedaledTV I find that can’t keep bars straight , shift side to side , but that numb if my finger , carpal turnel is the biggest issue , I be posting a video on my Instagram tomorrow from today’s ride , if you could take few minute to see it , you can see @explretheoutdoors
@@mcruzdvm there's a lot of variables. A big one is where your hands are in relation to the steering axis. If they are behind the stem cap this increases steering sensitivity. If your hands are level or ahead of the stem cap (like a road bike) that adds weight and stability to the steering. th-cam.com/video/v78C5Oi7tYk/w-d-xo.html
Sim Works Fun 3 handlebar for more hand positioning options.
Is that why did put in the extra bends?
Did you find the bar to vibrate you're hands allot compared to other bars
That was my experience
Not with ESI grips.
@@PathLessPedaledTV good deal, they vibrated horribly with ergon grips
Stay off the the weed bars and go with the Albatross uprights...and get a Riv! X-gens going retro riding the Rivs! Only way to go! Your neck, shoulders, elbows and wrists will thank you.
I like the albatross bars for road and gravel but not for lots of trail riding.
nice! A really wide alt bar is unique indeed. My salsa bar bend 2 is nice but too narrow for single track mild aggression. Will look hard at this one thanks!
Yeah, $135 for heavy bars like that seems a bit steep, but I do like the design. See if Tumbleweed can make these in carbon to cut the weight in half :-)
Wrist and neck problems? There is a lot to be explored with that. That said I would take drops over these.
Look at the Soma Dream Bar. It’s even better.
Have you compared it?
Russ must be trying to bridge the gap between cycle touring and bikepacking.
haircut! Yeah!
Now in alloy. And those sold out fast!
These look nice for long road or gravel rides, but I imagine I wouldn't feel very confident using them on rougher singletrack.
I’ve got them on my Surly Krampus and they’re great for trail riding!
Don't cut too much off at once, maybe no more than a half inch off each end until you find what you're comfortable with.
Yeah or just wrap with bar tape 🤣
Salsa Bend is a cheaper alternative if you dont need the rise.
Muy bueno
Looks remarkably similar to the Stooge Moto bar...
Not as much sweep or rise tho.
Or you could go for the Soma Dream riser for half the price and at a lighter weight.
Similar but not the same. Curious how much flat bar mounting real estate it has in comparison.
Path Less Pedaled there’s about 6” of flat bar so add in the stem and you’re looking at about 1.75” on either side. I get that they’re different materials and the sweep is slightly different but for the majority of riders, that price will probably be the deciding factor.
@@Angdvl089 I list the SOMA as an alternative in the video description FWIW.
@@PathLessPedaledTV And you're doing great work. Keep it up!
@@Angdvl089 yeah 6.5inches before bend, than 10 inches after bend
check out the Stooge Moto Bars for half the price