Preach what??? That MOFI produced records that analog purists have praised for 10 years and used as an example of how great analog can sound. It’s not MOFI that needs to apologize, it’s the vinyl snobs who continue to promote the fantasy that you can clearly tell the difference between analog and digital. They literally praised digital for 10 years.
@@laurencewhite4809 You seem to be missing the point of frustration, it has nothing to do with how any of the records sound. I recommend watching his video one more time and see if you have the same takeaway.
@@laurencewhite4809 not every one has been praising mofi ,,,alot of us have been sick of the bloated bass and the lifeless blanket over the speaker sound that mofi has been famous for these last 10 years
I think this is the best summary of what we should hope for going forward. I'm taking a break from mofi and music direct for a while, but if they do what you're describing then I could foresee buying from them again.
Thanks for airing what sounds like a proper solution for the Mofi situation. I canceled my pre-orders because I hate being misled and no longer see the value in their products.
Some very good points especially with the limited run as we know there is no limit to digital Lol and of course the heading Original Master Recording. There will be some that say the digital step was necessary to make the highest quality? Some will say if it sounds good that’s all that matters? Regardless your right not the product at a high price point we thought we were getting. For me vinyl is about the experience and Mofi has tarnished that. I don’t want to invite or continue to invite anything tarnished with my sacred vinyl experience. I invest a lot so I can enjoy that experience and that deserves some respect Mofi Thank You
I like great sounding records, whether it is from a digital source or an analog source has never really bothered me. I'm honestly happy that this has come out, it may finally make us average listeners able to afford great sounding records. These "all analog" low production runs have ruined vinyl, and MoFi was the leader of the pack.
And everybody with an Audio channel is jumping on this; I hope at the end we don't end up losing another great source of vinyl because of this. Do I care the source is digital, NO, I care that their records are some of the best sounding records I own.
So let me ask you this? Are you OK with paying $100 plus for a DSD file that you can purchase for $35-$50 on a regular basis? Also just stream the same digital dsd file for free. The fact that they lied! And profit Hugely off of the lie is what most of us are pissed about.
@@hesmellslikerome the enjoyment of playing a record >> the enjoyment of pressing a button to play a digital file. People like yourself seem to be missing that part. Mainly because you forgot what it means to enjoy music.
@@Groover71 Not at all homeboy. I love music. I don’t care what format at all. As long as it sounds good/great. I just don’t like deceitful lying companies. All I ask is to be honest/transparent. So we have the opportunity to choose, if we want that product or not. Let me put it like this. Let’s say I sell you at 10 pound brick of solid gold,$100,000 but instead, you find out it’s 9 pounds of lead covered in 1 pound of gold Worth $10,000? I think you would be pretty pissed. You still got gold! However is not what was promoted or what you paid for furthermore what was promised. On top of all this! They still have not come out and apologize🤣
Great video Chris. As a Canadian, MoFi releases are very expensive to acquire once you figure in the exchange rate, shipping, and custom duties. A $125.00 record can easily end up costing 200 US, which is about 260 CAD. A price drop in light of these revelations should indeed be in order.
The fact that they artificially created a “limited” classification, it being marketed as an analog process, and then justifying a high price is so appalling. And, using DSD allowed them to press even more “limited” copies to make even more money, at the expense of their (many loyal) customers looking for an analog product. It’s just dripping with greed. It’s sickening that the reality is that their records aren’t really any more special than a label’s standard new release. Cut from a digital file, it’s not limited, pressed at a plant along other standard releases, with sometimes questionable cover art quality. I mean bootleg level quality. Touting their production process has been the centerpiece of their existence as a premium reissue label. They KNEW it was wrong because they hid the digital step. And they probably know it doesn’t sound as good, but good enough to make a record people believed was analog. I am done with that company. I take it personally and I hope they get sued so other companies aren’t tempted to do the same.
If it 'sounded good enough to fool people into believing it was analog" then how is it that you think AAA is better than a MOFI One-Step? Just wondering
Oh I don't deny that it was more than bit shady, but I'm not emotionally invested because I have never paid for a One-Step and the majority of my MOFIs come from when I worked at a mom & pop record shop and would get them anywhere from 20-50% off, depending on how long they had been sitting there. I got Miles Davis Bitches Brew for like $35.99+tax, the 2x45 Cheap Thrills was 30% off whatever suggested retail was at the time, so I don't feel gypped at all. Those people that dropped thousands upon thousands tho 🤷
@@drivingwheel9101 it’s not about being the best sound. It’s about the experience of how much quality you can get from the analog format, which has inherent limitations. Analog is a relatively simple technology and it’s a miracle records work as well as they do. If you’re a high end record label, show me what you can do with this format that is difficult to get right. You tell me it’s analog, but you source it from a digital file? You can do practically *anything* to a digital audio file to enhance its sound. It’s like cheating. People love the One Steps because they can’t believe how good they sound. It’s because you can’t make it sound like that without making it digital because of how they processed the sound. Using digital in the analog world is like using steroids to cheat in sports. It’s artificial. I paid extra for ANALOG. I will never give MoFi another dime, even if their releases sound so good they cure cancer.
Well said Chris. Kudos to Michael Ludwig 45 rpm audiophile for starting this whole recent conversation and then Mike Esposito, The InGroove, for following up directly with MoFi. Looking forward to the outcome of all this controversy being a label on the record cover that transparently defines the entire process for how the record was made. Great to hear Chad Kassem, Analog Productions, has agreed to this too.
This is the best summary of this issue I’ve seen. Well done. Personally, I think someone should initiate a class-action lawsuit against Mo-Fi. I will never buy from them again.
Mofi clearly put the "DSD" logo on their SACD's for years.... wonder why that logo never was used on the vinyl version? Yeah we know. Their digital transfer process was the same, they should have been obligated to identify it, instead of the "Gain 2 Ultra Analog" logo on the vinyl. Now we know "ULTRA" was marketing-speak to hide the DXD (or whatever you want to call their 4xDSD transfer)
DXD is PCM while 4x DSD is true DSD. Keep in mind what I think they did is shady but they put the DSD logo on the SACD because that's the SACD native format. That's the encode on the actual SACD. It would be like putting RIAA curve logo on a record.
Well said. Great sounding records were available before the digital revolution and they did not cost the same as the weekly shopping. I have been very concerned by how companies such as MOFI have been creating a false record collecting elite and if some good can come of this, hopefully that trend will now stop.
Your beard is awesome! Plus you have a radio/tv quality voice. Your explanation and visuals really enhanced the argument. You also have a great solution. I really look forward to watching your other content. Thank you so much.
This is 100% how I feel. Many people on the audio forums are dancing around it, saying they didn't lie to us... Let's be real, MoFi put Gain 2 ANALOG on your label marketing. There is no excuse. The Beatles records Wal Mart sells for $22 are cut from high quality DSD files... Basically MoFi duped people into overspending on a product that isn't that unique.
@@Groover71 They use the same vinyl pellets all makers do. They also use the same pressing plants that the rest of the industry uses. It's not like Walmart has their own pressing plants.
I find this hilarious. Do you think they are exactly the same mastering? Maybe they are, but it obvious people making these statement have no clue. If you aren't paying for the mastering, which is far more important than anything else, then you are just spending money to look like an audiophile. It has nothing to do with the music.
What's really funny about this, is now you have me wondering about the albums I bought new in the mid Nineties. I really haven't bought much from them recently (last 10 years or so) as something about their product seemed off to me, the quantity of their "limited editions" to be exact. I actually reached out wanting to know how limited they were and, surprisingly, they responded with something along the line of, "we don't divulge that information, but please know that you are getting the highest possible quality product available". After which I just stopped focusing on their catalog. Thank you for being the first (to me) to bring this to light. Oh and on a side note, my father in law had been jonesing for the Santana One Step and we were talking about possibly getting it for him for Christmas. Yeah, not now. Take care!
I don’t know enough about this situation but I do enjoy watching all the vids out there regarding this issue, very interesting and I believe I am learning more about it. The point you brought up about in regards to placing some type of wording on the packaging of the recorded product stating its original source is a very good one.
I’m sure there are going to be lawsuits on the way and that may be why they aren’t saying anything from a corporate perspective. Likely their attorneys freaked out at the engineers letting Mike in and saying what they did.
Nice to see you back. After taking a big loss on a Feickert Volare when its junky Orgin arm wouldn't stay p, then asking/begging them to put a cutout in the opening of their record sleeves so they wouldn't be so darn hard to open, to now having issues with the HiFi Rose 150, I see a common thread - all were distributed or mfg by MoFi. They don't seem interested in feedback from customers meant to fix problems or improve the products they distribute or manufacture.
This is the most well argued stance I’ve heard on this. It covers every angle. These records are without real rarity. They’re an inherently inferior product to a $30 sacd from a fidelity standpoint, yet a superior product to a standard $30 vinyl reissue. The $125 price tag is robbery only backed by consumer ignorance that they intentionally fostered.
I sent them an email early last week, as I preordered the Thriller 1 Step. I wanted them to explain the process to me as a customer. Haven’t yet received a reply, so they have until next week or I’m cancelling the order. I will however put in the email that if they are willing to lower the price, I will consider not cancelling - otherwise I’m done. I’m not paying an all-analogue-chain price for something that can be easily mass produced. We all know that Mofi won’t be lowering their prices….
@@380stroker Yeah I did. Had to make a PayPal claim as they ignored 2 emails requesting the refund. That was the absolute nail in the coffin - never again.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. MoFi still make some of the best sounding vinyl releases. So to me it doesn’t matter if it was cut from Analog of DSD. But as a buyer, we need (should) know exactly which it was.
@@audioguy67 On some I would agree. But from what I have read. MoFi’s release of Santana’ Abraxax is regarded as the best sounding & no one thought for a second it wasn’t fully Analog. But we all now know it was cut from digital DSD.
Outstanding as always and I've been waiting for this video to hear your opinion on this $hit storm. You POV on it is spot on and makes perfect sense. Let's see how MoFi responds, the whole vinyl world is watching. Thank you and keep up the great work.
So glad to see you Chris! Your points are dead on. They didn't even have to lie for this to be shady. They knew what customers were assuming and let them continue in their error. Sad to say but they probably knew if they were to actually make a statement of clarification it would hurt business.
I'm glad I only bought their "zero step" products: SACD. And yes they need to come up clean and clearly state what their products are. And most importantly, as you said, they need to stop with the limited pressings. It doesn't serve them well as they don't benefit of the crazy prices that happen on the resale market anyway. If they sell 10x or 100x more products at half the price, they'll make more money and we'll get rid of flippers in the same process (I know we won't but that will seriously reduce their numbers) Oh why did I buy the SACDs in the first place? because 1. they were available while the LPs were out and going for crazy prices and 2. if I'm going to spend a decent amount of money on an album, I prefer a more durable medium, as good as the record can be, any little thing happens and then the sound quality can be damaged. I can transfer my SACD to DSD file and store them on a server for safe keeping and streaming in full resolution. I also owns several SACD players so if one was to fail, I have backup. All this system didn't cost me as much as 3 "one step" releases ($75 for 3 SACD players, $25 for the Sony bluray/sacd player used for DSD encoding (which can be another backup player if needed), software is free, I don't count the cost of my NAS because it is used for lots of other purposes, but say that represent 20% of the use, it cost me $800 so $160 so total $260 for eveything). I have done several A-B tests in the past and the DSD sound is so close to the analog that I prefer it that way. I prefer to buy 3 MoFi SACD than just 1 One Step LP (and remember as we now know it's the same source). I love records but I'm not filthy rich and I prefer to put my money where it is more worth it. PS: when I'm comparing values I stick to MoFi MSRP not what is available on the market.
The 4x DSD copy is still down sampled to 1x DSD for the SACD. Also they still apply their mastering in the analog domain. So its really 4x DSD -> Analog -> 1x DSD SACD.
And are you sure the SACD and the Vinyl editions have exactly the same mastering? That is unlikely. The master tapes are not what was used to cut records in the past.
@@robertt7238 The mastering is going to be different in general due to the requirements of vinyl. There has to be an EQ RIAA curve applied to what is cut. From a Master to product perspective its going to be something like 4x DSD -> Analog -> 1x DSD SACD for the SACD release and 4x DSD -> Analog -> Lacquer for the vinyl. The analog equitation section will have different settings based on medium.
Yea, people are not super upset about the way they make the records... it's the fact that they have been doing it behind a veil of smoke and mirrors, so to speak. I still love my MoFis, but it certainly hurts a bit.
nicely done clear and concise.i personally do not care about the source as long as the end game is excellent but to ask folks to pay a premium and deceive them is a another matter,i can certainly empathise!
MoFI LP values definitely gonna plummet. Case in point, been waiting years for the eventual refreshing of Natalie Merchant's Tigerlily. It's finally available again recently and I found myself holding back. Mofi prices have always been steep for me, but I justified it with being that their stuff are "all analog". Can't justify their current prices anymore.
You explained that very well. Thank you. I, too, do not buy records because they will increase in value. I buy records because I like them -- sometimes expensive ones. And, if I were to spend $150 on something, I would expect that everything was produced as described.
Also on this subject is an excellent video from TH-camr TJR. He discusses the topic in a calm and objective manner. And he goes into a dialog about how and where many audio engineers now use digital technology to enhance the backing vocals and many other aspects found on the original master tapes. It's a very well done and informative video. The Vinyl Attack brought this issue to my attention, maybe yours too. TJR offers us a deeper dive into the matter.
Welcome back! I agree with every point what’s stopping them like you said from dropping a batch of 20,000 new Santana records like you said make my 3000 copy a 120 copy overnight ( I don’t really have it just making a point).
You hit a point that I think has been overlooked in this chain of deception. The limited quantity run on the One Steps was also a factor in fooling us to believe these records were all analog (and therefore commanding a premium price). With DSD in the chain, they can knock these records out for the next 100 years if they wanted to.
It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I own Abraxas(uds1), Bill Evans(uds2), Donald Fagen(uds3) (didn't he record in digital?), and like five more but I preordered all of those purchases and paid sticker. I stopped purchasing them b-4 this story blew up in their face because I got tired of getting up every few minutes to change a side. I get titred of paying these prices also and how companies gouge in different ways. I remember wanting a copy of Acoustic Sounds "Kind Of Blue" pressing limited to 25,000 copies. Not so limited but what angered me was that they were not waving the shipping fee which they're supposed to do on orders over $49.00 right there on the website. They had some stupid reason for not waving the shipping and I just thought, screw it. They'll sell it(sold out) anyways was their attitude and it suddenly occurred to me I don't need another $100.00 plus Lp. I probably have close to a dozen Kind Of Blues(mofi included. Hmmm.). I bought better digital equipment and will not miss the lp's
Love your channel. Love your ballsy straightforwardness. I agree with everything you said, but I also think they should offer those customers the choice of a financial credit towards future purchases or a partial refund. Think of this; If they continue, but lower their price, then those first fleeced customers get a double slap in the face as they watch others purchase at a corrected price. When you do wrong, you make it equitably right, period.
Yep - totally agree. Issue partial refunds to bring the price down to more of a standard pressing price, and they probably won’t get an influx of full refund requests like the one I will be making next week if they refuse to budge..
Most vinyl collectors do not realize one thing. The digital signal needs to be converted to analog through DAC (digital to analog converter) and they all sound different! It's not like you take one-to-one bits and put the into grooves. It's more like putting microphone next to a speaker and record signal. Digital signal has no analog representation. Different DACs means different sound.
Summer of 2020, I get a call from a dear friend that worked at a buy/sell/trade shop for all kinds of stuff. One of them being records, and says I should get there asap, without telling me why. I show up, and there sits a complete Beatles mofi box set from 1982, near mint. Needless to say, that didn't make the showroom floor, and came home with me. Is my crown jewel, for sure.
Anyone, anyone who paid $2000+ for a new record deserves what they get. Great video and the point about the limited runs is well made, truly awful manipulation.
The credit for the invention of the digital recording is not given to a person but to a company. The first digital recording was publicly launched in Japan during the 60s but at that time, digital audios were still stored in magnetic tapes. Finally, in 1977, the Sony PCM-1 of the Sony company was released and it became the first commercially distributed digital audio recorder that would later on convert analog audio to digital medium and be stored on VHS tapes. From here, digital mastering existed and in the late 1970s, Sony and Panasonic collaborated to introduce the first compact disk (CD) for greater digital storage.
MoFi engineers were trying to explain that 4xDSD resolution is so exponentially greater than what can be contained on 30ips tape, so they consider the result of that transfer to be effectively equivalent to the Original Master Recording. Like carefully pouring liquid from a pint sized container to a fancy high quality quart sized container.
I think a more realistic scenario here, from a strictly business perspective is: the current owners of MoFi sell the company and take a huge loss on their investment before the company becomes completely worthless. Then new owners find whoever was at the spearhead of misleading the public about what was being sold and publicly fire that person, and maybe some of the high up people who collaborated on the dishonest, and I believe frankly illegal marketing. Apologize on behalf of the previous owners. Apologize to staff that don't have ownership stakes in the company for dragging them into this unethical mess. Actually refund or offer vouchers to anyone who can prove they paid top dollar for products that were clearly misrepresented, and then roll up their sleeves to make MoFi the best vinyl and digital collector edition publisher they can be. That's about the only scenario in which I can imagine the company retaining any kind of value in. It's harsh, but why would anyone buy another high priced collectors'release from them? As for future releases, it's pretty simple. Just write down as much detail as you can about the chain for everything you issue. If it's a third generation analog tape copy as master, fine - just say so. That's still all analog. Disclose all of the steps. Be extra careful not to use marketing spin to make any stereo sound like it might be something it's not. Oh, and you'd think this last part doesn't need to be said, but in their case: and don't lie about anything from now on. Sadly in this case I think we can't take that last part for granted. Dear MoFi, don't lie to your customers. It's REALLY bad for business when they catch you. I'm not an analog purity guy. I fully expect high end digital to be able to fully capture everything that was ever on an analog tape. But that's not the key business problem here. If I were a major shareholder in that company I'd be calling for the head (s) of whoever was responsible for this dishonest sales strategy. I'm being hard on MoFi, but that's because they deserve it. I'm actually just explaining what I see in front of me. In their defense though, and it's really a separate conversation that I think is worth having, I sympathize with their engineers. On the one hand they want to make the best possible records they can, and they think the best way to do that is with digital master copies. But the public, who are not actually audio engineers for the most part, clamor for pure analog. The team at MoFi is guilty of telling the public that they're giving them what they want while actually giving them what they think is best. It's not a position I envy being in. The problem here is that someone tells you their allergic to boysenberries, you think their neurotic and just being paranoid. You tell them there are no boysenberries in the pie because you figure they'll be just fine, and the next think you know they're gasping for air. Oops! Well the big oops is on MoFi now and I don't see realistically how their friend with an EpiPen in their arm is ever going to trust them again, unless as I said, they just sell it so someone else can run the kitchen from now on. (The kitchen is the marketing department, not the mastering studio which by all accounts is both excellent and has at least a modicum of honesty, seeing as how they're the ones who actually blew this open.)
"Mofi isn't doing exactly what they seem." TRUE. "Issue isn't the sound of the records." TRUE. "The issue here is ethics." TRUE. Which brings me to my point. It's about the "One-Step" process. "Yes, One-Steps cost more money." I will agree with this, that it cost more money to the consumer. But the consumer can buy Mofi records that are not using the "One-Step" process. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this as I do not have any Mofi records.) The One-Step process removes steps in creating the stamper, this is true if you believe Mofi's documentation. Logically thinking the removal of those steps to create a stamper should reduce the cost of creating the final stamper. If, IF, my logic is sound and true then Mofi has a less expensive and better process to create stampers known as One-step. And we know now that they have a digital master that will never degrade. We also know that Mofi is lacking in ethics. So, if the One-step process is less expense to Mofi and produces a superior product, there is no way in hell that Mofi would ever use any other process to create their stampers. So I believe Mofi is charging a massive premium for products they are labeling as One-step, when in reality all their stampers are created by the One-step process. I definitely could be wrong, but given the lack of ethics shown by Mofi, I think this is another deception they're pushing onto the vinyl community. So if you have any Mofi records that aren't One-steps, I bet they actually are and you're getting them without the premium. Thoughts??
I still can't believe that in this an age we are paying 50+ USD per album while with streaming it's more like 1/5 or even sometimes 1/10 or 1/20 of the price. Yes of course the quality is perhaps different. But we need to make it possible for regular people to own a couple of hundred records without them having to use 1 years worth of their salary. I am a bit surprised in the age of 3d printing that we have not invented like a local printing plant in our community that can make this a lot cheaper. Back in the 80's and 90's they were only like 15 USD for a new album and in bargain bin they then were 1-6 dollars. Nowadays Vinyl is so expensive that it just doesn't make any sense. I even remember buying a Joe Bonamassa record recently in 200gr version, and every time you had to take it in and out of the sleeve the record got scratched. I got no reply from them about this, not very nice when you just forked over 35 USD which to me was my most expensive record that I bought. When I see people using 50-500 USD on records, that just blows my mind!
Wow man thanks for the information. I did not even think about the website promoting the idea that they were waiting fake repressof there analog pressings. And to even take it further! Stating that on some of the albums they offer, are out of print! So that is a complete lie! Because it’s cut from a digital source Aka DSD.
MoFi apologizing won't get in front of this, and neither will future stickers disclosing their sources. That ship has sailed. This is a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen.
Perfect summation - it’s not about the how good they sound. It’s about getting what you think you paid for. The “limited” runs are also a good observation - What BS!
No more MoFi for me. Liars and cheats are always liars and cheats. Thank you for offering them a compromise...but dishonesty doesn't budge. They do not deserve anything less than restitution.
Well said, brother. I don’t agree with those that are of the opinion that this is no big deal because MoFi records sounds great. That’s not the point, here.
Totally agree with your perspective and a legitimate path forward for MOFI. However..... I think this also does a service to exposing the "cork-sniffery" of the audiophile market. Seriously, it shows that people just couldn't tell the difference between digital and analogue mastering. Frankly, this super of the market is truly crazy to me....it's the definition of separating music appreciation to using audio as an "investment."
It doesn't say anything about people telling the difference in my opinion. The vinyl is so superior on something like a one step, that it will probably always sound better than an original pressing.
@@thevinylattack Agreed, however....I'm referencing the "purity" of the source audio. While we all know that some pressings are better than others, it's becoming a little ridiculous (a big pet peeve if mine if you can't tell) how the price of certain albums has gotten crazy because of the provenance of a certain pressing being "superior" for marginal-at-best reasons. I just hate to see investment level collectors ruin it for the music appreciators.
Short, succinct and right on point. Unfortunately I don’t think MoFi will be seeing the error of their ways. I’m not talking about the recording engineers, but the business owners. The only thing that will make them change their behavior is their bottom line. So I suspect it’ll be same prices, same artificial scarcity, no apology, but at least they should now be declaring dxd when it’s used.
I totally agree. MoFi must apologize and adjust the prices to what they are really selling. But… Another topic arise with this… many people claimed the quality of these recordings due the complete analogue process… and it isn’t. That means that to take a good digital copy from the original master is a great way to preserve it and to get a high quality records, in any format you want. I never thought that analogue is superior to digital when the source is the same quality, now I hope other people admit it, and has less problems with digital mastering.
"Using a hi-res audio, you're going to hit a lot more points on the analog wave, that makes it sound that much better." That's not how the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem works. What hi-res audio does is enable sampling of frequencies above the range of human hearing.
Just to echo what others have said, this - along with @poetryonplastic - is one of the best responses I’ve seen. Personally, I don’t intend to support MoFi or MD in the future. Were they to take the steps you describe, I would potentially reconsider. However, I would also want to see some corporate accountability. Because we are talking records (which is low consequence in terms of harm/detriment) it’s easy to overlook the sheer breathtaking scope of this: MoFi committed consumer fraud on a massive scale for over a decade. There needs to be corporate accountability for that. But thank you for the video.
It is an analog sound because its a record played with analog equipment, but it's not analog sourced. I also don't know a single person who felt bad about not recognizing the digital source. I know I don't.
When I initially heard about this we all thought that this started in 2015 but we have now found out that Santana Abraxas also has a digital chain so how far does this go back? I also think they need to take out a full-page ad in NYT apologizing to all of us and from now on be transparent about their process and lower their prices on everything, not just the one steps
I agree with your suggestions. Although I still think my MoFis are superb records, the lack of rarity of source devalues them. I buy to play, not collect, so it matters less to me than others, but I now think these MoFi releases are woth less than the ask.
@@thevinylattack Disagree. The value will go down only if MOFi repress these records OR if another label represses them at a similar or better quality. The fact MOFi can repress them, doesn’t mean they will. But one thing is 100% certain: MOFi has lost its mystique, it’s magic, and the trust informed consumers had vis à vis the company. And that will impact their records’ future value.
There comes a time when original source tapes are physically impossible to do. They won't last forever. So a digital source will be necessary. So preserve them now and go from there.
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Preach it.
Tryin' like hell...
Preach what??? That MOFI produced records that analog purists have praised for 10 years and used as an example of how great analog can sound.
It’s not MOFI that needs to apologize, it’s the vinyl snobs who continue to promote the fantasy that you can clearly tell the difference between analog and digital.
They literally praised digital for 10 years.
@Fletcher Fortune Tell that to the analog snobs who praised the “analog sound” of the digital MOFI records for 10 years.
@@laurencewhite4809 You seem to be missing the point of frustration, it has nothing to do with how any of the records sound. I recommend watching his video one more time and see if you have the same takeaway.
@@laurencewhite4809 not every one has been praising mofi ,,,alot of us have been sick of the bloated bass and the lifeless blanket over the speaker sound that mofi has been famous for these last 10 years
I think this is the best summary of what we should hope for going forward. I'm taking a break from mofi and music direct for a while, but if they do what you're describing then I could foresee buying from them again.
1000% agree.
the odds of any company voluntarily slashing their retail prices by 50% is zero
That's pretty much where I'm at.
And where would you turned too, may I ask?
You nailed every important point in this debacle. MoFi charging a premium and creating FOMO with made up limited run numbers is what really gets me.
It pisses me off too.
Limited to 10,000 copies 😂😂😂
Thanks for airing what sounds like a proper solution for the Mofi situation. I canceled my pre-orders because I hate being misled and no longer see the value in their products.
I'm hearing that more and more.
The most concise rendering of the situation I have heard. Finally someone mentions the price issues too.
I've mentioned all along. But people are blind.
It helps to have a public channel for people to hear those opinions I'd think.
I'm glad you liked it.
Some very good points especially with the limited run as we know there is no limit to digital Lol and of course the heading Original Master Recording. There will be some that say the digital step was necessary to make the highest quality? Some will say if it sounds good that’s all that matters? Regardless your right not the product at a high price point we thought we were getting. For me vinyl is about the experience and Mofi has tarnished that. I don’t want to invite or continue to invite anything tarnished with my sacred vinyl experience. I invest a lot so I can enjoy that experience and that deserves some respect Mofi Thank You
I like great sounding records, whether it is from a digital source or an analog source has never really bothered me. I'm honestly happy that this has come out, it may finally make us average listeners able to afford great sounding records. These "all analog" low production runs have ruined vinyl, and MoFi was the leader of the pack.
And everybody with an Audio channel is jumping on this; I hope at the end we don't end up losing another great source of vinyl because of this. Do I care the source is digital, NO, I care that their records are some of the best sounding records I own.
So let me ask you this? Are you OK with paying $100 plus for a DSD file that you can purchase for $35-$50 on a regular basis? Also just stream the same digital dsd file for free. The fact that they lied! And profit Hugely off of the lie is what most of us are pissed about.
@@hesmellslikerome the enjoyment of playing a record >> the enjoyment of pressing a button to play a digital file. People like yourself seem to be missing that part. Mainly because you forgot what it means to enjoy music.
@@Groover71 Not at all homeboy. I love music. I don’t care what format at all. As long as it sounds good/great. I just don’t like deceitful lying companies. All I ask is to be honest/transparent. So we have the opportunity to choose, if we want that product or not. Let me put it like this. Let’s say I sell you at 10 pound brick of solid gold,$100,000 but instead, you find out it’s 9 pounds of lead covered in 1 pound of gold Worth $10,000? I think you would be pretty pissed. You still got gold! However is not what was promoted or what you paid for furthermore what was promised.
On top of all this! They still have not come out and apologize🤣
@@veteq101 Seems to me that someone enjoys paying $100+ for a easily recycled digital file. Plain stupidity. You prove the stupidity. 😂
Chris, brilliantly stated, concise and to the point. I'm in total agreement.
Great video Chris. As a Canadian, MoFi releases are very expensive to acquire once you figure in the exchange rate, shipping, and custom duties. A $125.00 record can easily end up costing 200 US, which is about 260 CAD. A price drop in light of these revelations should indeed be in order.
I hadn't even thought about that. A very good point indeed.
This is why I only buy European pressings. I've avoided MOFI and Analogue Productions all the time.
Try $299 in Australia and even more in NZ
@@ozeskiman
Yep, I've pretty much stopped buying vinyl, prices for shipping are outrageous
@@rabarebra Why have you avoided Analogue Productions specifically? Has there been an issue previously I’m unaware of?
Totally agree with you. MoFi have been deceptively dishonest with their customers, and worst of all has been their deafening silence.
The fact that they artificially created a “limited” classification, it being marketed as an analog process, and then justifying a high price is so appalling. And, using DSD allowed them to press even more “limited” copies to make even more money, at the expense of their (many loyal) customers looking for an analog product. It’s just dripping with greed. It’s sickening that the reality is that their records aren’t really any more special than a label’s standard new release. Cut from a digital file, it’s not limited, pressed at a plant along other standard releases, with sometimes questionable cover art quality. I mean bootleg level quality.
Touting their production process has been the centerpiece of their existence as a premium reissue label. They KNEW it was wrong because they hid the digital step. And they probably know it doesn’t sound as good, but good enough to make a record people believed was analog. I am done with that company. I take it personally and I hope they get sued so other companies aren’t tempted to do the same.
The false air of limited copies bothers me too.
If it 'sounded good enough to fool people into believing it was analog" then how is it that you think AAA is better than a MOFI One-Step? Just wondering
Bootleg nailed it for me spot on fkkin scam
Oh I don't deny that it was more than bit shady, but I'm not emotionally invested because I have never paid for a One-Step and the majority of my MOFIs come from when I worked at a mom & pop record shop and would get them anywhere from 20-50% off, depending on how long they had been sitting there. I got Miles Davis Bitches Brew for like $35.99+tax, the 2x45 Cheap Thrills was 30% off whatever suggested retail was at the time, so I don't feel gypped at all. Those people that dropped thousands upon thousands tho 🤷
@@drivingwheel9101 it’s not about being the best sound. It’s about the experience of how much quality you can get from the analog format, which has inherent limitations. Analog is a relatively simple technology and it’s a miracle records work as well as they do. If you’re a high end record label, show me what you can do with this format that is difficult to get right. You tell me it’s analog, but you source it from a digital file? You can do practically *anything* to a digital audio file to enhance its sound. It’s like cheating. People love the One Steps because they can’t believe how good they sound. It’s because you can’t make it sound like that without making it digital because of how they processed the sound. Using digital in the analog world is like using steroids to cheat in sports. It’s artificial. I paid extra for ANALOG. I will never give MoFi another dime, even if their releases sound so good they cure cancer.
THIS! The Vinyl Attack! youtube channel has nailed this perfectly. I hope this video becomes a top recomendation on this topic. Good Job.
Thank you.
Well said Chris. Kudos to Michael Ludwig 45 rpm audiophile for starting this whole recent conversation and then Mike Esposito, The InGroove, for following up directly with MoFi. Looking forward to the outcome of all this controversy being a label on the record cover that transparently defines the entire process for how the record was made. Great to hear Chad Kassem, Analog Productions, has agreed to this too.
This is the best summary of this issue I’ve seen. Well done. Personally, I think someone should initiate a class-action lawsuit against Mo-Fi. I will never buy from them again.
Did they straight up lie?
Mofi clearly put the "DSD" logo on their SACD's for years.... wonder why that logo never was used on the vinyl version? Yeah we know. Their digital transfer process was the same, they should have been obligated to identify it, instead of the "Gain 2 Ultra Analog" logo on the vinyl. Now we know "ULTRA" was marketing-speak to hide the DXD (or whatever you want to call their 4xDSD transfer)
Pretty much.
DXD is PCM while 4x DSD is true DSD. Keep in mind what I think they did is shady but they put the DSD logo on the SACD because that's the SACD native format. That's the encode on the actual SACD. It would be like putting RIAA curve logo on a record.
Well said. Great sounding records were available before the digital revolution and they did not cost the same as the weekly shopping. I have been very concerned by how companies such as MOFI have been creating a false record collecting elite and if some good can come of this, hopefully that trend will now stop.
Yep, this has put me off record collecting, the manufactured scarcity is putrid imo
Thank you. This is the sanest response I've seen to this controversey.
I'm glad to hear that.
Your beard is awesome! Plus you have a radio/tv quality voice. Your explanation and visuals really enhanced the argument. You also have a great solution. I really look forward to watching your other content. Thank you so much.
Welcome aboard!
This is 100% how I feel. Many people on the audio forums are dancing around it, saying they didn't lie to us... Let's be real, MoFi put Gain 2 ANALOG on your label marketing. There is no excuse. The Beatles records Wal Mart sells for $22 are cut from high quality DSD files... Basically MoFi duped people into overspending on a product that isn't that unique.
The vinyl on the one steps are fairly unique, but you're 100% correct on the rest.
On cheap vinyl. Promise you it doesn’t sound the same.
@@Groover71 They use the same vinyl pellets all makers do. They also use the same pressing plants that the rest of the industry uses. It's not like Walmart has their own pressing plants.
Precisely, Cliff! Well said.
I find this hilarious. Do you think they are exactly the same mastering? Maybe they are, but it obvious people making these statement have no clue. If you aren't paying for the mastering, which is far more important than anything else, then you are just spending money to look like an audiophile. It has nothing to do with the music.
What's really funny about this, is now you have me wondering about the albums I bought new in the mid Nineties. I really haven't bought much from them recently (last 10 years or so) as something about their product seemed off to me, the quantity of their "limited editions" to be exact. I actually reached out wanting to know how limited they were and, surprisingly, they responded with something along the line of, "we don't divulge that information, but please know that you are getting the highest possible quality product available". After which I just stopped focusing on their catalog. Thank you for being the first (to me) to bring this to light. Oh and on a side note, my father in law had been jonesing for the Santana One Step and we were talking about possibly getting it for him for Christmas. Yeah, not now. Take care!
I don’t know enough about this situation but I do enjoy watching all the vids out there regarding this issue, very interesting and I believe I am learning more about it. The point you brought up about in regards to placing some type of wording on the packaging of the recorded product stating its original source is a very good one.
Thanks. I hope they listen.
I’m sure there are going to be lawsuits on the way and that may be why they aren’t saying anything from a corporate perspective.
Likely their attorneys freaked out at the engineers letting Mike in and saying what they did.
Hope this happens.
I sincerely doubt it.
Uh, no, the engineers did not hold that meeting without the approval of their corporate overlords, guranteed.
I suspect the engineers were told, play down the tech chain and play up the great sound. Didn't quite solve the problem, though!
At least the Honey Nut Cheerios I have every morning are lowering my cholesterol. I mean, the box says says.
Nice to see you back.
After taking a big loss on a Feickert Volare when its junky Orgin arm wouldn't stay p, then asking/begging them to put a cutout in the opening of their record sleeves so they wouldn't be so darn hard to open, to now having issues with the HiFi Rose 150, I see a common thread - all were distributed or mfg by MoFi. They don't seem interested in feedback from customers meant to fix problems or improve the products they distribute or manufacture.
This is the most well argued stance I’ve heard on this. It covers every angle. These records are without real rarity. They’re an inherently inferior product to a $30 sacd from a fidelity standpoint, yet a superior product to a standard $30 vinyl reissue. The $125 price tag is robbery only backed by consumer ignorance that they intentionally fostered.
I sent them an email early last week, as I preordered the Thriller 1 Step. I wanted them to explain the process to me as a customer. Haven’t yet received a reply, so they have until next week or I’m cancelling the order. I will however put in the email that if they are willing to lower the price, I will consider not cancelling - otherwise I’m done. I’m not paying an all-analogue-chain price for something that can be easily mass produced.
We all know that Mofi won’t be lowering their prices….
You might as well cancel that order. I don't see them explaining anything to you, sadly.
Do you think that the sacd of this reissue will sound better or at least the same as the 4xdsd of the Thriller One Step?
Did you cancell your order?
@@380stroker Yeah I did. Had to make a PayPal claim as they ignored 2 emails requesting the refund. That was the absolute nail in the coffin - never again.
@@danrosewarne6986 I think they're about to lose tons of money. Protesting with your wallet works.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. MoFi still make some of the best sounding vinyl releases.
So to me it doesn’t matter if it was cut from Analog of DSD. But as a buyer, we need (should) know exactly which it was.
Yep.
really wrong my friend there is digitizing step involved which for sure is affecting original sound
@@audioguy67 On some I would agree. But from what I have read. MoFi’s release of Santana’ Abraxax is regarded as the best sounding & no one thought for a second it wasn’t fully Analog. But we all now know it was cut from digital DSD.
WB!!!!!....glad to see you again....YEA!!!...great episode.
I'm glad you liked it.
Outstanding as always and I've been waiting for this video to hear your opinion on this $hit storm. You POV on it is spot on and makes perfect sense. Let's see how MoFi responds, the whole vinyl world is watching. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Glad you enjoyed it.
So glad to see you Chris! Your points are dead on. They didn't even have to lie for this to be shady. They knew what customers were assuming and let them continue in their error. Sad to say but they probably knew if they were to actually make a statement of clarification it would hurt business.
It's going to hurt more if they don't make a statement.
Short and professional. Good job.
Thank you.
I'm glad I only bought their "zero step" products: SACD.
And yes they need to come up clean and clearly state what their products are.
And most importantly, as you said, they need to stop with the limited pressings.
It doesn't serve them well as they don't benefit of the crazy prices that happen on the resale market anyway.
If they sell 10x or 100x more products at half the price, they'll make more money and we'll get rid of flippers in the same process (I know we won't but that will seriously reduce their numbers)
Oh why did I buy the SACDs in the first place? because
1. they were available while the LPs were out and going for crazy prices and
2. if I'm going to spend a decent amount of money on an album, I prefer a more durable medium, as good as the record can be, any little thing happens and then the sound quality can be damaged.
I can transfer my SACD to DSD file and store them on a server for safe keeping and streaming in full resolution. I also owns several SACD players so if one was to fail, I have backup. All this system didn't cost me as much as 3 "one step" releases ($75 for 3 SACD players, $25 for the Sony bluray/sacd player used for DSD encoding (which can be another backup player if needed), software is free, I don't count the cost of my NAS because it is used for lots of other purposes, but say that represent 20% of the use, it cost me $800 so $160 so total $260 for eveything).
I have done several A-B tests in the past and the DSD sound is so close to the analog that I prefer it that way.
I prefer to buy 3 MoFi SACD than just 1 One Step LP (and remember as we now know it's the same source).
I love records but I'm not filthy rich and I prefer to put my money where it is more worth it.
PS: when I'm comparing values I stick to MoFi MSRP not what is available on the market.
The 4x DSD copy is still down sampled to 1x DSD for the SACD. Also they still apply their mastering in the analog domain. So its really 4x DSD -> Analog -> 1x DSD SACD.
And are you sure the SACD and the Vinyl editions have exactly the same mastering? That is unlikely. The master tapes are not what was used to cut records in the past.
@@robertt7238 The mastering is going to be different in general due to the requirements of vinyl. There has to be an EQ RIAA curve applied to what is cut. From a Master to product perspective its going to be something like 4x DSD -> Analog -> 1x DSD SACD for the SACD release and 4x DSD -> Analog -> Lacquer for the vinyl. The analog equitation section will have different settings based on medium.
Short, concise, accurate and all good points. Goo job.
Thanks.
Bird Wax, tweet, tweet! Great video as always Chris.
Thank you.
Sounds like a real mess for the faithful vinyl followers. Great explanation, now I understand the situation. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful.
Yea, people are not super upset about the way they make the records... it's the fact that they have been doing it behind a veil of smoke and mirrors, so to speak. I still love my MoFis, but it certainly hurts a bit.
%100 correct.
Ah guy that actually gets it. Short and sweet.
Thank you for a concise and honest explanation of this issue
My pleasure.
nicely done clear and concise.i personally do not care about the source as long as the end game is excellent but to ask folks to pay a premium and deceive them is a another matter,i can certainly empathise!
That's the crux of it.
thx for info, nice your back on , we missed you
:-)
will you ever review amps/preamps that are realistic in price ?
How about a video highlighting the various LP companies and their standards? Which ones can we trust, who labels their sleeves, most transparent etc.
If I had any information on that, I'd certainly share it with you.
MoFI LP values definitely gonna plummet. Case in point, been waiting years for the eventual refreshing of Natalie Merchant's Tigerlily. It's finally available again recently and I found myself holding back. Mofi prices have always been steep for me, but I justified it with being that their stuff are "all analog". Can't justify their current prices anymore.
I hear you.
Amen....they need to slash the prices for starters
Agreed.
You explained that very well. Thank you. I, too, do not buy records because they will increase in value. I buy records because I like them -- sometimes expensive ones. And, if I were to spend $150 on something, I would expect that everything was produced as described.
It's basic marketing courtesy.
Finally, a reviewer that understands the issue and who can express it well.
Thanks.
Also on this subject is an excellent video from TH-camr TJR. He discusses the topic in a calm and objective manner. And he goes into a dialog about how and where many audio engineers now use digital technology to enhance the backing vocals and many other aspects found on the original master tapes. It's a very well done and informative video.
The Vinyl Attack brought this issue to my attention, maybe yours too. TJR offers us a deeper dive into the matter.
Best summary out there, thank you.
Thanks for watching.
Well said.
Welcome back! I agree with every point what’s stopping them like you said from dropping a batch of 20,000 new Santana records like you said make my 3000 copy a 120 copy overnight ( I don’t really have it just making a point).
It may happen in the future, now that the cat is out of the bag.
You hit a point that I think has been overlooked in this chain of deception. The limited quantity run on the One Steps was also a factor in fooling us to believe these records were all analog (and therefore commanding a premium price). With DSD in the chain, they can knock these records out for the next 100 years if they wanted to.
They sure could.
It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I own Abraxas(uds1), Bill Evans(uds2), Donald Fagen(uds3) (didn't he record in digital?), and like five more but I preordered all of those purchases and paid sticker. I stopped purchasing them b-4 this story blew up in their face because I got tired of getting up every few minutes to change a side. I get titred of paying these prices also and how companies gouge in different ways. I remember wanting a copy of Acoustic Sounds "Kind Of Blue" pressing limited to 25,000 copies. Not so limited but what angered me was that they were not waving the shipping fee which they're supposed to do on orders over $49.00 right there on the website. They had some stupid reason for not waving the shipping and I just thought, screw it. They'll sell it(sold out) anyways was their attitude and it suddenly occurred to me I don't need another $100.00 plus Lp. I probably have close to a dozen Kind Of Blues(mofi included. Hmmm.). I bought better digital equipment and will not miss the lp's
Spot on, Chris. Everything you said. 👍
Thanks.
I meant to say your channel keeps me inspired excuse the adhd
Perfectly put! Thank you
Thanks for watching.
thank you
Love your channel. Love your ballsy straightforwardness. I agree with everything you said, but I also think they should offer those customers the choice of a financial credit towards future purchases or a partial refund. Think of this; If they continue, but lower their price, then those first fleeced customers get a double slap in the face as they watch others purchase at a corrected price. When you do wrong, you make it equitably right, period.
Yep - totally agree. Issue partial refunds to bring the price down to more of a standard pressing price, and they probably won’t get an influx of full refund requests like the one I will be making next week if they refuse to budge..
I don't see any feasible way for them to offer a credit. There's just no way to track down all the original buyers.
Most vinyl collectors do not realize one thing. The digital signal needs to be converted to analog through DAC (digital to analog converter) and they all sound different! It's not like you take one-to-one bits and put the into grooves. It's more like putting microphone next to a speaker and record signal. Digital signal has no analog representation. Different DACs means different sound.
Very true.
Summer of 2020, I get a call from a dear friend that worked at a buy/sell/trade shop for all kinds of stuff. One of them being records, and says I should get there asap, without telling me why. I show up, and there sits a complete Beatles mofi box set from 1982, near mint. Needless to say, that didn't make the showroom floor, and came home with me. Is my crown jewel, for sure.
That's a nice grab.
Anyone, anyone who paid $2000+ for a new record deserves what they get. Great video and the point about the limited runs is well made, truly awful manipulation.
They deserve to get the record they paid for.
@@thevinylattack agreed
The credit for the invention of the digital recording is not given to a person but to a company.
The first digital recording was publicly launched in Japan during the 60s but at that time, digital audios were still stored in magnetic tapes.
Finally, in 1977, the Sony PCM-1 of the Sony company was released and it became the first commercially distributed digital audio recorder that would later on convert analog audio to digital medium and be stored on VHS tapes. From here, digital mastering existed and in the late 1970s, Sony and Panasonic collaborated to introduce the first compact disk (CD) for greater digital storage.
MoFi engineers were trying to explain that 4xDSD resolution is so exponentially greater than what can be contained on 30ips tape, so they consider the result of that transfer to be effectively equivalent to the Original Master Recording. Like carefully pouring liquid from a pint sized container to a fancy high quality quart sized container.
I'm sure they're right. That isn't the issue though. It's how it was marketed to us.
Love the beard! There’s nothing like the truth! Thank you!
Excellent point!
All they need to put is AAA for an all analog path or AAD etc for digital. The spar code used for CDs
I think a more realistic scenario here, from a strictly business perspective is: the current owners of MoFi sell the company and take a huge loss on their investment before the company becomes completely worthless. Then new owners find whoever was at the spearhead of misleading the public about what was being sold and publicly fire that person, and maybe some of the high up people who collaborated on the dishonest, and I believe frankly illegal marketing. Apologize on behalf of the previous owners. Apologize to staff that don't have ownership stakes in the company for dragging them into this unethical mess. Actually refund or offer vouchers to anyone who can prove they paid top dollar for products that were clearly misrepresented, and then roll up their sleeves to make MoFi the best vinyl and digital collector edition publisher they can be. That's about the only scenario in which I can imagine the company retaining any kind of value in. It's harsh, but why would anyone buy another high priced collectors'release from them?
As for future releases, it's pretty simple. Just write down as much detail as you can about the chain for everything you issue. If it's a third generation analog tape copy as master, fine - just say so. That's still all analog. Disclose all of the steps. Be extra careful not to use marketing spin to make any stereo sound like it might be something it's not. Oh, and you'd think this last part doesn't need to be said, but in their case: and don't lie about anything from now on. Sadly in this case I think we can't take that last part for granted. Dear MoFi, don't lie to your customers. It's REALLY bad for business when they catch you.
I'm not an analog purity guy. I fully expect high end digital to be able to fully capture everything that was ever on an analog tape. But that's not the key business problem here. If I were a major shareholder in that company I'd be calling for the head (s) of whoever was responsible for this dishonest sales strategy.
I'm being hard on MoFi, but that's because they deserve it. I'm actually just explaining what I see in front of me. In their defense though, and it's really a separate conversation that I think is worth having, I sympathize with their engineers. On the one hand they want to make the best possible records they can, and they think the best way to do that is with digital master copies. But the public, who are not actually audio engineers for the most part, clamor for pure analog. The team at MoFi is guilty of telling the public that they're giving them what they want while actually giving them what they think is best. It's not a position I envy being in. The problem here is that someone tells you their allergic to boysenberries, you think their neurotic and just being paranoid. You tell them there are no boysenberries in the pie because you figure they'll be just fine, and the next think you know they're gasping for air. Oops! Well the big oops is on MoFi now and I don't see realistically how their friend with an EpiPen in their arm is ever going to trust them again, unless as I said, they just sell it so someone else can run the kitchen from now on. (The kitchen is the marketing department, not the mastering studio which by all accounts is both excellent and has at least a modicum of honesty, seeing as how they're the ones who actually blew this open.)
Music Direct owns Mofi, so that sale isn't going to happen. Music Direct makes money hand over fist even if Mofi folds completely.
I think MOFI saw a group of people they could take advantage of so they did.
It sure seems that way.
I like the way you Explained it, and I agree with you wholeheartedly 👍
They were not being Honest....
I'm still hoping for a price drop, but I'm not holding my breath.
Very interesting I totally agree with you.
"Mofi isn't doing exactly what they seem." TRUE. "Issue isn't the sound of the records." TRUE. "The issue here is ethics." TRUE. Which brings me to my point. It's about the "One-Step" process. "Yes, One-Steps cost more money." I will agree with this, that it cost more money to the consumer. But the consumer can buy Mofi records that are not using the "One-Step" process. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this as I do not have any Mofi records.) The One-Step process removes steps in creating the stamper, this is true if you believe Mofi's documentation. Logically thinking the removal of those steps to create a stamper should reduce the cost of creating the final stamper. If, IF, my logic is sound and true then Mofi has a less expensive and better process to create stampers known as One-step. And we know now that they have a digital master that will never degrade. We also know that Mofi is lacking in ethics. So, if the One-step process is less expense to Mofi and produces a superior product, there is no way in hell that Mofi would ever use any other process to create their stampers. So I believe Mofi is charging a massive premium for products they are labeling as One-step, when in reality all their stampers are created by the One-step process. I definitely could be wrong, but given the lack of ethics shown by Mofi, I think this is another deception they're pushing onto the vinyl community. So if you have any Mofi records that aren't One-steps, I bet they actually are and you're getting them without the premium. Thoughts??
Mofi cds sound great..I'm still happy
I still can't believe that in this an age we are paying 50+ USD per album while with streaming it's more like 1/5 or even sometimes 1/10 or 1/20 of the price. Yes of course the quality is perhaps different. But we need to make it possible for regular people to own a couple of hundred records without them having to use 1 years worth of their salary.
I am a bit surprised in the age of 3d printing that we have not invented like a local printing plant in our community that can make this a lot cheaper.
Back in the 80's and 90's they were only like 15 USD for a new album and in bargain bin they then were 1-6 dollars. Nowadays Vinyl is so expensive that it just doesn't make any sense.
I even remember buying a Joe Bonamassa record recently in 200gr version, and every time you had to take it in and out of the sleeve the record got scratched. I got no reply from them about this, not very nice when you just forked over 35 USD which to me was my most expensive record that I bought. When I see people using 50-500 USD on records, that just blows my mind!
Dude you do realize that literally everything is more expensive now than in the 80s/90s? Like, come on.
Also, get new sleeves. Preferably MoFi 😉
@@Groover71 Of course, but not relative to inflation.
Excellent thoughts. That last point was one I keyed into immediately. If it’s digital there should be no issue giving us more abraxas. A holes.
Well put, sir.
Thanks.
Wow man thanks for the information. I did not even think about the website promoting the idea that they were waiting fake repressof there analog pressings. And to even take it further! Stating that on some of the albums they offer, are out of print! So that is a complete lie! Because it’s cut from a digital source Aka DSD.
I agree with everything you said.
MoFi apologizing won't get in front of this, and neither will future stickers disclosing their sources. That ship has sailed. This is a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen.
Perfect summation - it’s not about the how good they sound. It’s about getting what you think you paid for. The “limited” runs are also a good observation - What BS!
If it walks like a duck and is digital like a duck(daffy).... its a digital duck!
No more MoFi for me. Liars and cheats are always liars and cheats. Thank you for offering them a compromise...but dishonesty doesn't budge. They do not deserve anything less than restitution.
Amen to that. You summarised the issue succinctly. Maybe they should start by re pressing Abraxas one step so that we mere mortals can get a copy.
I'd be good with that.
Well said, brother. I don’t agree with those that are of the opinion that this is no big deal because MoFi records sounds great. That’s not the point, here.
Totally agree with your perspective and a legitimate path forward for MOFI. However.....
I think this also does a service to exposing the "cork-sniffery" of the audiophile market. Seriously, it shows that people just couldn't tell the difference between digital and analogue mastering. Frankly, this super of the market is truly crazy to me....it's the definition of separating music appreciation to using audio as an "investment."
It doesn't say anything about people telling the difference in my opinion. The vinyl is so superior on something like a one step, that it will probably always sound better than an original pressing.
@@thevinylattack Agreed, however....I'm referencing the "purity" of the source audio. While we all know that some pressings are better than others, it's becoming a little ridiculous (a big pet peeve if mine if you can't tell) how the price of certain albums has gotten crazy because of the provenance of a certain pressing being "superior" for marginal-at-best reasons.
I just hate to see investment level collectors ruin it for the music appreciators.
Short, succinct and right on point. Unfortunately I don’t think MoFi will be seeing the error of their ways. I’m not talking about the recording engineers, but the business owners. The only thing that will make them change their behavior is their bottom line. So I suspect it’ll be same prices, same artificial scarcity, no apology, but at least they should now be declaring dxd when it’s used.
I don't know about that. I think there's enough heat on this to bring about change.
Best believe there has been a lot of meetings over the last week at MFSL. They can't go on like this, that's for sure.
Good video and good points, totally agree man 🙌🎶
Thank you.
I totally agree.
MoFi must apologize and adjust the prices to what they are really selling.
But…
Another topic arise with this… many people claimed the quality of these recordings due the complete analogue process… and it isn’t.
That means that to take a good digital copy from the original master is a great way to preserve it and to get a high quality records, in any format you want.
I never thought that analogue is superior to digital when the source is the same quality, now I hope other people admit it, and has less problems with digital mastering.
Them, along with thousands of other companies, this isn't a surprise
"Using a hi-res audio, you're going to hit a lot more points on the analog wave, that makes it sound that much better." That's not how the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem works. What hi-res audio does is enable sampling of frequencies above the range of human hearing.
Proverb: If it aint broke, don't fix it
Mofi: We're going to fix vinyl, but keep it all under your hat
Thanks Chris….
Great points and suggested remedy.
Thanks.
The German Stockfish label sell specific DSD to Vinyl records, at about 30 $.
Totally agree , well put.
Just to echo what others have said, this - along with @poetryonplastic - is one of the best responses I’ve seen. Personally, I don’t intend to support MoFi or MD in the future. Were they to take the steps you describe, I would potentially reconsider. However, I would also want to see some corporate accountability. Because we are talking records (which is low consequence in terms of harm/detriment) it’s easy to overlook the sheer breathtaking scope of this: MoFi committed consumer fraud on a massive scale for over a decade. There needs to be corporate accountability for that. But thank you for the video.
Well said.
Well said sir
Agreed! And all the more reason to appreciate Chad and Analog Productions. Most AP products are 100% analog records for $38
People will still buy no matter what it is. Alot are mad because they got called out about hearing analog sound when it wasn't.
It is an analog sound because its a record played with analog equipment, but it's not analog sourced. I also don't know a single person who felt bad about not recognizing the digital source. I know I don't.
I 100% agree with this video - well said.
Thanks.
When I initially heard about this we all thought that this started in 2015 but we have now found out that Santana Abraxas also has a digital chain so how far does this go back? I also think they need to take out a full-page ad in NYT apologizing to all of us and from now on be transparent about their process and lower their prices on everything, not just the one steps
Great video and I fully agree re the future of MoFi.
Keep up the great work
Thanks, will do!
This and Micheal’s @poetryonplastic videos are the best videos coming out of this whole shit show. Thank you!
Thanks for tuning in.
Agree. and poetryonplastic had the Britton interview at the end, where Britton said that their vinyl LP mastering method is all analog.
I agree with your suggestions. Although I still think my MoFis are superb records, the lack of rarity of source devalues them. I buy to play, not collect, so it matters less to me than others, but I now think these MoFi releases are woth less than the ask.
I'd say you're completely correct.
@@thevinylattack Disagree. The value will go down only if MOFi repress these records OR if another label represses them at a similar or better quality. The fact MOFi can repress them, doesn’t mean they will. But one thing is 100% certain: MOFi has lost its mystique, it’s magic, and the trust informed consumers had vis à vis the company. And that will impact their records’ future value.
There comes a time when original source tapes are physically impossible to do. They won't last forever. So a digital source will be necessary. So preserve them now and go from there.
That's great. Just as long as that's included in the marketing.