its always a tough debate the one about what could make a proper necromancy experience, personally i believe that the one earned from arcane arts, developed by research and by paying its cost (which generally is one's sanity) tends to be the most fitting. I specially like when the use of such dark arts also corrupts the area around the caster, leaving a stench of rot and decay on its way.
I like the idea that controlling your minions is basically about mind control, which is easy because your basic skeleton and zombie are dumb as hell, but if you have a lot of them it starts to add up, and eventually you might lose control and now they turn hostile towards you, as they are towards all living things. A more powerful necromancer can control more because they are stronger mentally, and a lich or vampire can control even more since the fact that they too are undead means their minions aren't inately hostile towards them, which means they offer less resistance.
Yeah this is kind of like the puppet master approach. Minions beyond the master's active awareness either do their own thing, do nothing, or are hostile
On the topic of a mana bar, there is this one lit rpg book i read where spells are using mana but mages themselves don't have mana. They instead have a mental fatigue bar. Spells have high mental costs but the bar would regen very fast, to counter that every time you use a whole bar you get mental fatigue which reduces maximum mental fatigue by a certain amount. And you have to rest to get that back and if you sue too much your mind gets foggy head ache and lost of conciseness and it would take days of rest to get back to full.
5:18 Why aren't zombies doing work? 1. If you put a wizard at equal power of that hypothetical necromancer, they would just do the same stuff with magic or using magic tools. It is like comparing a businessman harnessing many workers vs a businessman using machines. 2. Wizards can create golems to do task.
So how do you stop magic users in general from doing a sort of magical industrial revolution, leading to a weird scifi setting rather than a typical fantasy one?
@@chebgonaz They tend to revolutionize using a magic source that only they can use. How would a medieval person use a smart phone if he doesn't have the power to turn it on? Second, most settings don't have numerous magic users. So there aren't much sweatshop mages that can power up a country. But magicless humanoids are everywhere using primitive tools. Thirdly, most settings magic cities are very advanced. They may not have the aesthetic of a sci-fi, but they have the advanced devices to make it one. Fourthly, most mages aren't that strong. If we nerf the army summoning level necromancer to a typical mage, the necro would probably be at the level of summoning a skeleton or two.
Also fifthly, there are advanced civilizations that looks sci-fi in some fantasy settings. But they got hit with some calamity that regresses technology to where it is now. Like how the classical era turned medieval or the modern era turn into a post apocalypse.
@@goruu Good ideas & points, thanks. What seems right to me is that a necromancer beginner can only command a single minion decently, or a few basic minions at most. Whereas a competent necromancer could command your typical Elderscrolls necromancer cave's worth (something like 50 minions). A very skilled/practiced necromancer like a Master Necromancer, Lich, or Vampire Lord could command somewhere between a few hundred to a few thousand. Basically Total War Warhammer 2 or Dominions 5 necromancer style. But it may be taxing to do that, so they'd still delegate where possible. So an undead army is probably looking like a Master Necromancer (or Lich/Vampire Lord) leading a few hundred undead, supported by a dozen or so necromancers each with 50-100 or so minions under their control. For other kinds of minionmancers (eg. golem makers, demonologists, druids, etc.) it would be a similar type of situation. Minions could be stashed away in the keep/lair or whatever in a passive kind of guard-only mode, where they cost no mental energy but also can't be lead into battle or perform tasks beyond just standing around and attacking if attacked or pursuing enemies in sight. These are basic, instinctive/non-intelligent actions/responses. Generic/mundane troops would still be valuable supplements to these magical armies because they have no mental overhead/upkeep costs. For my fantasy worlds this is the type of numbers & constraints I'd be aiming for. It permits the lone necromancer to have a decent lair but also means a magician can't get carried away. The mental upkeep required to actively lead/command minions means that using them as a kind of factory wouldn't be so viable because it'd require constant concentration on the necromancer/mage's part. Performing factory tasks like knitting or assembling things are not basic/instinctive actions and thus would require concentration - fatiguing the magician considerably. TL;DR: A necromancer can't have an undead factory due to the mental overhead of having to command the minions. They could do it for a few hours a day, while awake, though.
@@chebgonaz I am assuming your fantasy worlds have every race being tolerant to necromancers. If not, don't forget culture and politics(Don't know a better word). Like, if your neighbor is raising corpses, their best way to procure more corpses would be attack neighbors. If you let them attack neighbors, they will get stronger, so it is better to band together, summon the hero of light and defeat the evil. You yourself could raise corpses yourself, but your culture says raising zombies are icky, disgusting and most of all importantly, a blasphemy. If they are tolerant, a mental upkeep like you said would probably stop necromancers from ruling the world. If the mental upkeep is gone, it would probably look like Dark Souls.
5:27 The Sorcerer King Ainz Ooal Gown approves.
Haha :D
its always a tough debate the one about what could make a proper necromancy experience, personally i believe that the one earned from arcane arts, developed by research and by paying its cost (which generally is one's sanity) tends to be the most fitting. I specially like when the use of such dark arts also corrupts the area around the caster, leaving a stench of rot and decay on its way.
Yeah I think everyone on the podcast likes the corruption idea.
I like the idea that controlling your minions is basically about mind control, which is easy because your basic skeleton and zombie are dumb as hell, but if you have a lot of them it starts to add up, and eventually you might lose control and now they turn hostile towards you, as they are towards all living things. A more powerful necromancer can control more because they are stronger mentally, and a lich or vampire can control even more since the fact that they too are undead means their minions aren't inately hostile towards them, which means they offer less resistance.
Yeah this is kind of like the puppet master approach. Minions beyond the master's active awareness either do their own thing, do nothing, or are hostile
On the topic of a mana bar, there is this one lit rpg book i read where spells are using mana but mages themselves don't have mana. They instead have a mental fatigue bar. Spells have high mental costs but the bar would regen very fast, to counter that every time you use a whole bar you get mental fatigue which reduces maximum mental fatigue by a certain amount. And you have to rest to get that back and if you sue too much your mind gets foggy head ache and lost of conciseness and it would take days of rest to get back to full.
That's an interesting system. I'm all for fresh ideas regarding mana
5:18 Why aren't zombies doing work?
1. If you put a wizard at equal power of that hypothetical necromancer, they would just do the same stuff with magic or using magic tools. It is like comparing a businessman harnessing many workers vs a businessman using machines.
2. Wizards can create golems to do task.
So how do you stop magic users in general from doing a sort of magical industrial revolution, leading to a weird scifi setting rather than a typical fantasy one?
@@chebgonaz They tend to revolutionize using a magic source that only they can use. How would a medieval person use a smart phone if he doesn't have the power to turn it on?
Second, most settings don't have numerous magic users. So there aren't much sweatshop mages that can power up a country. But magicless humanoids are everywhere using primitive tools.
Thirdly, most settings magic cities are very advanced. They may not have the aesthetic of a sci-fi, but they have the advanced devices to make it one.
Fourthly, most mages aren't that strong. If we nerf the army summoning level necromancer to a typical mage, the necro would probably be at the level of summoning a skeleton or two.
Also fifthly, there are advanced civilizations that looks sci-fi in some fantasy settings. But they got hit with some calamity that regresses technology to where it is now.
Like how the classical era turned medieval or the modern era turn into a post apocalypse.
@@goruu Good ideas & points, thanks. What seems right to me is that a necromancer beginner can only command a single minion decently, or a few basic minions at most. Whereas a competent necromancer could command your typical Elderscrolls necromancer cave's worth (something like 50 minions). A very skilled/practiced necromancer like a Master Necromancer, Lich, or Vampire Lord could command somewhere between a few hundred to a few thousand. Basically Total War Warhammer 2 or Dominions 5 necromancer style. But it may be taxing to do that, so they'd still delegate where possible.
So an undead army is probably looking like a Master Necromancer (or Lich/Vampire Lord) leading a few hundred undead, supported by a dozen or so necromancers each with 50-100 or so minions under their control. For other kinds of minionmancers (eg. golem makers, demonologists, druids, etc.) it would be a similar type of situation. Minions could be stashed away in the keep/lair or whatever in a passive kind of guard-only mode, where they cost no mental energy but also can't be lead into battle or perform tasks beyond just standing around and attacking if attacked or pursuing enemies in sight. These are basic, instinctive/non-intelligent actions/responses.
Generic/mundane troops would still be valuable supplements to these magical armies because they have no mental overhead/upkeep costs.
For my fantasy worlds this is the type of numbers & constraints I'd be aiming for. It permits the lone necromancer to have a decent lair but also means a magician can't get carried away. The mental upkeep required to actively lead/command minions means that using them as a kind of factory wouldn't be so viable because it'd require constant concentration on the necromancer/mage's part. Performing factory tasks like knitting or assembling things are not basic/instinctive actions and thus would require concentration - fatiguing the magician considerably.
TL;DR: A necromancer can't have an undead factory due to the mental overhead of having to command the minions. They could do it for a few hours a day, while awake, though.
@@chebgonaz I am assuming your fantasy worlds have every race being tolerant to necromancers.
If not, don't forget culture and politics(Don't know a better word).
Like, if your neighbor is raising corpses, their best way to procure more corpses would be attack neighbors. If you let them attack neighbors, they will get stronger, so it is better to band together, summon the hero of light and defeat the evil.
You yourself could raise corpses yourself, but your culture says raising zombies are icky, disgusting and most of all importantly, a blasphemy.
If they are tolerant, a mental upkeep like you said would probably stop necromancers from ruling the world. If the mental upkeep is gone, it would probably look like Dark Souls.
Can vampires use blood magic to resurrect their minions
that'd be cool