Wado Ryu's Ohtsuka Hironori - The first MMA Karate master!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 69

  • @botanicalbiohacking6065
    @botanicalbiohacking6065 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    hundreds of thousands of karate guys on only a few hundred subscribers? WTAF? This is historic context. This is how you know you aren't training fantasy bullshit and are on the right path.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I know, but that’s okay. I’m just starting out, to quote “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”: If you build it, they will come. I’m glad there are people like yourself who seem to really be passionate about the history behind the mystery 🙇‍♂️

  • @Adam_Le-Roi_Davis.
    @Adam_Le-Roi_Davis. 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I studied Wado Ryu in the mid seventies in Britain and had my BKA licence (British Karate Association), and met Otsuka and Suzuki once when they visited our club, it was a great honour for us to have them there.

  • @leosidharta6723
    @leosidharta6723 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is a gem of Karate History.
    Domo Arigato, Sensei.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you so much for your kind words and for watching the video! I'm honored that you found it to be a valuable resource for learning about the rich history of karate. Ohtsuka Hironori's contributions to the martial art are truly remarkable, and I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to share his story with you.
      The history of karate is filled with so many fascinating stories and characters, and it's always a pleasure to dive deeper into its mystical and transformative power. I hope that you continue to explore and learn more about karate, and that you find inspiration and guidance on your own martial arts journey. Thank you again for watching and for your support. Domo arigato gozaimasu!

    • @leosidharta6723
      @leosidharta6723 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Eventhough we come from different schools of Karate, but i don't think it is a obstacle to be in the brotherhood of Karate - dokas...

  • @ckhthd
    @ckhthd 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    The "falling out" as I understand it was much more between Ohtsuka Sensei and Master Funakoshi's youngest son, Yoshitaka. Following the death of Takeshi Shimoda, he was made the main floor instructor which really should have been Ohtsuka Sensei. The two had very real technical differences. In addition, Mr. Ohtsuka was pressured to make a loan from Shotokai building funds to master Funakoshi's oldest son (not a karate man) to cover gambling debts. The loan was not paid back. Mr. Ohtsuka ended up being held responsible but also did not have that much money. The situation became intolerable and master Ohtsuka left around the end of 1936. The breakup was really a two year affair. Until 1936 the kata were very similar. The real divergence happened in the university clubs. Ironically very similar circumstances led to the breakup of JKF Wadokai in 1979 or 80, with Master Ohtsuka and his son Jiro leaving Wadokai to found Wado Ryu karate Do Renmei.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you for that explanation! May I ask where you got this info? (Not that I doubt you, just hungry for good sources)… it does fit with other things I’ve read though. I hope you enjoyed the video 🙇‍♂️

    • @ckhthd
      @ckhthd 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@timthenunes I think much of this is in Mr. Suzuki's book. Some from my teacher who was a student of Master Funakoshi and Master Ohtsuka, then both still under the Shotokai umbrella at Tokyo Agricultural University (Noh Dai) in the 1930's.

  • @rdwwdr3520
    @rdwwdr3520 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I was a student of Ajari Yoshiaki Sensei in Berkeley CA for many years. He was the North American counterpart to Suzuki sensei. Wish you would have mentioned him.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I apologise, but I have never heard of Ajari Sensei before. There are so many important people in Karate history, and I’m afraid I can’t mention all of them, so I’m starting with those I’ve known of. Thanks for the suggestion

    • @rdwwdr3520
      @rdwwdr3520 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@timthenunes Sure I understand. But Ajari-sensei was pretty big in Wado history specifically. All the film out there on the internet showing Otuska-sensei doing stuff with partners (such as sword defense and kihon kumite), that's almost all Ajari-sensei doing it with him. So since your video was on Wado, he's kinda a big deal. But I understand maybe lesser known in Europe.

  • @davidhinds9816
    @davidhinds9816 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi Tim, I was once a Karateka of Wado Ryu when I was much younger but unfortunately work and relationships made me stray away I wished that I had stayed. I love this video you have true humbleness and knowledge it has been most interesting to watch and to listen to thank you so much for your time and effort it has been well served and appreciated by me.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi David!
      First of all: thank you so much for your comment! I’m always happy to hear from anyone who has found any type of joy or fulfilment in Karate at any point of their lives.
      Secondly, do yourself a favour and try and find a dojo where you can return to Karate, I have a feeling it would do you a lot of good to be in that environment again.
      Thirdly… welcome to the channel, I film new videos every week, almost 100 different videos as I write this (Wednesday I film my 100th video), so no doubt there’s much more for you to explore! 🙇‍♂️

  • @78a67h
    @78a67h 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I already knew most of the history, but it is the absolute first time I see a clip of a very young Otsuka Sensei. Totally amazing!

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the kind words 🙇‍♂️

  • @sheffieldkarateclub
    @sheffieldkarateclub 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very well presented video. I've just subscribed. Thanks for sharing 👍

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you very much! I will try to keep the quality high and improve when i can 🙇‍♂️

    • @sheffieldkarateclub
      @sheffieldkarateclub 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I enjoyed the laid back style and information covered 🙏

  • @tillschaper5809
    @tillschaper5809 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cool thanks

  • @jaronby
    @jaronby 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Nice presentation.
    Some small comments. Othsuka sensei didn't change the original names. Either Nakayama sensei or Keiko Funankoshi did. Ohtsuka sensei stuck to the original names of kata.
    Yakusoku kumite comprises all kumite drills, as yakusoku means to promise, or agree. You know the attack and you know the defense. Both know the drill. You referred to Kihon kumite. These are 10 drills that were derived from the 36 kumite kata.
    You forgot to mention the Shinken Shihara dori. Although for most mortals impossible drills these are the final goal of Wado ryu. Facing a blade and be able to neutralize your opponent.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hi, thanks for the comments! Didn’t know that about Yakusoku specifically, but it makes sense. I didn’t forget Shinken shihara dori though, i forgot to say etc. and maybe i should have made the list shorter... but i really appreciate you taking the time to correct/add to what i say in this video! About the Kata names, again, i think i used the wrong words, “changed them back” instead of “kept the original names”, i can see how that can be interpreted as him changing the names.

    • @ckhthd
      @ckhthd 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The names were changed by master Funakoshi and his son Yoshitaka for the 1936 publication of Karate Do Kyohan. Master Ohtsuka, as you say, simply kept the names he had learned

  • @jvaikido1
    @jvaikido1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hello, Many thanks for your excellent video. Wado ryu is a great style. I trained in the 1970s to early 1980s. I was lucky to trained with sensei Toshio Osaka at the University of Utah in Salt lake city. He was a great fighter and good person. Had a good time practicing the art. I visited hombu dojo in Tokyo Japan in 1999. What I Like in Wado ryu is that you learn a mixed martial art. In it you learn karate, jujutsu, japanese fencing, and other weapons.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you for your comment! That’s what I love about it too, mixing it up, learning different types of martial arts at once. 👍

  • @IsaacLausell
    @IsaacLausell 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent video! Wado is certainly one of the most interesting Karate styles.
    I read an explanation below about the fall out that you mention that seems to make sense. I have heard the issue about not sparring however both Funakoshi’s “Karare Kihoan” and “Karate Jutsu” books talk about free sparring. There are however indicators as one examines the curriculum structure that a great deal of time is spent doing other things than sparring. A lot of this structure takes hold when trying to make Karate more similar to Japanese martial arts. Some ideas translate well but others don’t and in many ways slow down the learning curve.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks!
      Without judging who was right or wrong, it does pay off to look at what Motobu taught and what Funakoshi taught to get an idea about what Otsuka felt missing in Funakoshi’s way. We can’t possibly know what went on in those dojo’s, but we can learn a lot from the minds of all these masters.

    • @IsaacLausell
      @IsaacLausell 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@timthenunes I agree, after all it is said that when Funakoshi Sensei and Motubu Sensei fought Motubu prevailed. I don't relate this to undermine Funakoshi but to share information.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      As do we all! Personally, I wouldn’t bet on Funakoshi to win a fight against Motobu anyway, I don’t think that would even be a fair fight… in the end it was Funakoshi who won by becoming the man known as the father of modern Karate, this kind of immortalised him…

  • @combatsportsarchive7632
    @combatsportsarchive7632 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A modern equivalent of Ohtsuka Hironori is Yoshiji Soeno who is the founder of Shidokan Karate. Like him, Soeno explored different styles of fighting arts such as Muay Thai and Judo to enhance his eclectic form of full contact Karate (based on traditional styles of Karate and Kyokushin Karate). If you watch a video called "Shidokan Highlights", you will see those influences in their freestyle format.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for that piece of information. I did not know this of the Shidokan founder, although it does make sense. I will take a look at those highlights 👍

  • @jaswest
    @jaswest 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great Video!

  • @pawned79
    @pawned79 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you for the concise but thorough video! Please, would do you a video on why there are two different schools: Wado Ryu and Wado Kai? I have been having difficulty finding a straight answer.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you for your kind words! I’ll have to look into that, I have some ideas why it is, but I’ll have to get my facts straight.

    • @78a67h
      @78a67h 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The culprit is politics as usual. I think one follows the teachings of T. Suzuki who was Otsuka's favourite student and assistant instructor and the highest graded student by Otsuka himself. The other follows the teachings of Jiro Otsuka the son.

    • @lincolnkarateschool-suzuki9383
      @lincolnkarateschool-suzuki9383 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@timthenunes If it helps you could discuss this with the wife of T.Suzuki, there are many interpretations of what happened but you could hear it from her perspective. Feel free to get in touch to arrange

  • @peterflashman8100
    @peterflashman8100 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent video and well researched! I had heard of many of the terms used before, such as Meikyo meaning teacher but did not understand their meaning. In the UK there are a lot of Wado Ryu schools, the Keon and Kata remain the same but the Ipponnme, syllabus and pairwork can greatly vary.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you for your comment! It’s true that many terms are used without knowing what they mean, to take your example, Meikyo means “Bright mirror”. Furthermore, there are words that are used in Japanese and in Okinawan with drastically different meanings (in Japanese Uchi is house, whereas in Okinawan Uchi means something like attack)

    • @jamesdoyle1984
      @jamesdoyle1984 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      True, we had Tatsuo Suzuki. He loved England!

  • @jacesmith9342
    @jacesmith9342 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is pretty good. Wado-Kai here. The only thing I’d actually correct, is that Ohtsuka didn’t want to be a jujutsu instructor. He wanted to open a chiropractor’s clinic. But in order to do so, you needed a teaching license in jujutsu. So he went to one of his instructors who wrote him a menkyo kaiden for the sole purpose of opening his clinic. If you contact Tobin Threadgill, head instructor for Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin ryu, he can confirm this.
    But I did like the rest of the video. Great job. 👍

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you for the addition! Yeah, that is a small correction, but significant towards his motivation in his younger days. There is a lot more we can tell about him, but i think i would have to change my format for that 😅 i like that my videos inform, but i love that they get people to inform me 😉

    • @jacesmith9342
      @jacesmith9342 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@timthenunes right. I didn’t expect to change your format or anything, but it’s a piece of information that can lead to heated conversations. Cuz only one person in Shindo Yoshin can have the head teacher license. And when people claim Ohtsuka what’s one, they also try to say he THE head instructor. But then the jujutsu guys start arguing that that’s impossible because there was already a head instructor. It’s a small, barely known caveat of information that clears that whole issue up. But your stuff is great man.

  • @gavinletford1539
    @gavinletford1539 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I came 2 nd in the Sussex national as a teenager. I wish I carried it on . Probably would of gone somewhere. Now iam 43 years old . Kids take note .

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  ปีที่แล้ว

      It's never too late to pick up martial arts again! Your experience and age can actually be an asset on the mat. Who knows, maybe you have a second chance at becoming a national champion or even discovering a new passion. Don't let age hold you back from chasing your goals and dreams. And if competition isn't your thing, there are plenty of other benefits to martial arts training, such as improving physical fitness, discipline, and confidence. So go ahead, put on that gi and get back on the mat. You've got this!

  • @steve00alt70
    @steve00alt70 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Full contact sparring is fundamentally essential in praticising karate. I could see why they parted ways now.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree completely with that statement! One can not be done without the other in my opinion 🙇‍♂️

  • @chinolatino9663
    @chinolatino9663 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Problems between Othsuka and Funakoshi arised when Funakoshis oldest son lost too much money to gambling and kept lending from Othsuka creating a debt he woudnt pay, when Othsuka finally complained in middle of an argument where Yoshitaka and Funakoshi were present Funakoshi senior felt so offended that everything started to change. One day Funakoshi said: theres people who try to put together difrent martial arts like karate and jujutsu and what they create is a nonsense that cant be called either one. (Was he referring to Othsuka?...

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  ปีที่แล้ว

      I’m not aware of this story, but I believe there must have been differences in opinion between Ohtsuka and Funakoshi sr.

  • @carlpf5505
    @carlpf5505 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hello, I practice the wadokan karaté currently called the wadoshin karate since 8 years, it is the form of karate closest to the original wado ruy taught by master otsuka. It has been found by a certain Master Renaud a French karate 9 Dan and he was the oldest French karatéka before his death, he had the master otsuka meikio keiden. However my teacher, his students, Thold me that he was like the truth spiritual son of master otsuka but in internet he only find information about master Suzuki. So if you know more information about Master Renaud and my karate answer me please 🙏 thanks for this beautiful video ! 👍

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hello, thanks for your comment. I have personally never heard of Master Renaud as the “spiritual son” of Otsuka, but that doesn’t necessarily mean much, as there is so much knowledge out there and I am just one humble (but passionate) karateka. My idea is always this: “be patient with those who are looking for the truth, but be weary for those who claim they’ve found it” 🙇‍♂️

    • @carlpf5505
      @carlpf5505 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@timthenunes thanks a lot for your answers and your humility ! 😁 It is a beautiful precept but my teacher are very humble and teaches good Martial arts so I trust them. I will continue to try to found the truth 😉 bye !

  • @tengu190
    @tengu190 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There is also Yoseikan Budo and Shindo jinen-ryu which are hybrid karate arts

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You should watch my video on karate styles 😁 there’s many MANY styles, hybrids, etc th-cam.com/video/rLwyBdQPZ-U/w-d-xo.html

  • @stewartratcliffe8907
    @stewartratcliffe8907 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice little video, however I have to mention that ohyo kumite were developed by Suzuki sensei not ohtuska meiji

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the addition 👍

    • @richardford713
      @richardford713 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Different sensei can develop their own ohyo,

  • @addeside
    @addeside 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice video.
    As Wadoka I already knew Otsuka's history.
    Yes, he replaced the okinawan names, but written in katakana, becoming just a kata name without a specific meaning.
    Nowadays in kata competitions all kata are written in katakana.
    About suparinpei, do you have some news about it? Everybody knows it was included in the 2nd release of the style, but there are no documentation about it from the founder, no pictures or film.
    In Japan they told me Otsuka trained for a while before abandoning...
    Here in Italy there are some club that teach it, but at my eyes it's a fake copy of the shito's.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I don’t have news on it, but my idea is that it just doesn’t fit with the others. Just look at how different Wado’s Seishan is compared to that of other styles! Thanks for your comments 👍

    • @addeside
      @addeside 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      This should (maybe, perhaps, who knows) be the Otsuka version. Obviously not recognized by no one, neither Wadokai or Renmei.
      A mix of Seishan and Niseishi passages in the traditional Suparinpei enbusen.
      th-cam.com/video/zQGv7Z9nOOU/w-d-xo.html

    • @casperwb
      @casperwb 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      He didn't change the names. Funakoshi changed them, Otsuka kept the original names.

  • @Warpriest77
    @Warpriest77 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Not the first actually.

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I know he wasn’t, but you know naming videos has to draw in an audience, and this title does seem to make people want to watch 😅

    • @Warpriest77
      @Warpriest77 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@timthenunes yes, we live in the clickbait era lol

    • @timthenunes
      @timthenunes  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You have no idea! I actually have to come up with a good title before I even write my script! And I try to take extra care not to make it empty clickbait

  • @vittoriocecchet2187
    @vittoriocecchet2187 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video!