My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek Buy the ZWO ASI2600MC Air smart camera: tinyurl.com/tr2r3esn (ZWO) or bit.ly/3SV04Co (Agena, placeholder page) or bit.ly/3SZARXx (HPS, placeholder page) Other equipment used in this video: RedCat51: bit.ly/48hyuVx (Agena) or bit.ly/48pTWXW (HPS) Focuser bracket: www.etsy.com/shop/SmartComponents ZWO AM5N Mount: bit.ly/3W3TWKe (Agena) or bit.ly/3A0cO4e (HPS) or tinyurl.com/5ft5n9am (ZWO direct) UMi 17 Lite Mount: www.proxisky.com/ ZWO EAF Focuser: bit.ly/45agP0Z (Agena) or bit.ly/4avCIcE (HPS) or tinyurl.com/nhfyark8 (ZWO) Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/49XTx01 Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R First Light Optics affiliate: tinyurl.com/yxd2jkr2 All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV Astroshop eu Affiliate: tinyurl.com/2vafkax8 My Merch Store: cuiv.myspreadshop.com/
Hey Cuiv! One thing I really like about this ZWO Mc Air 😄is that it allows for a perfect grab and go setup that reduces headaches of having all separate different components. The last time I went to a dark site was a disaster because everything worked but the computer would not boot! Everything worked at home but I guess the humidity prevented the computer from coming on. So even though you are limited to ZWO hardware, for a "just works" setup for taking to a dark site or your backyard. Plus with the cost of $2000, you don't need a separate guide camera, off-axis guider, or even a PC so you save money too. Since it seems like a lot of people have multiple rigs, why not have one that is all ZWO hardware with your own scope and mount? Frustration can cause people to leave the hobby but something like this can make things less frustrating including the spider web of cables that can snag. Thanks for this review as it shows all the benefits and pitfalls of this setup. CS!
Agreed. Cuiv is becoming the go-to guy for everything astro. His reviews are honest and he spends a lot of time producing and reviewing his videos for accuracy.
Just started watching your channel...love the enthusiasm and unabashed presentation! I am a newby to astrophotography, but designed and built a Copper Dobsonian Telescope a few years ago. Keep it up!
Yup. What you said. ASI Air is a great way to get started, but don't box yourself in. I started a year ago with an Air and have out grown it. NINA is awesome. Thanks for the vid.
Currently I have no need for this big setup but anything all-in-one interests me. They are the gateway substance to more advanced photography. Thank you again for detailed review.
As always, such a detailed and informtive review. I saw it at NEAF and thought it was a joke at first. I did see some use cases for it such as a new hobbyist or a grab and go setup. I am always concerned about any one part of that setup going bad and then being without all of your equipment. Honestly just for that reason, this should never be a primary rig. I can't imagine not being able to image for a long time due to one part of my setup being down. Then you have to look at the fact that this will be the only camera you can use due to intergration. What they should do in the future is make it like an attachable add-on (modular system) that links directly to the camera buss, that way you would be able to swap out cameras. Yes, that would make a new ecosystem within ASIAIR, but it would make sense to me and be kinda cool. Thanks Cuiv
My setup has EAF, ASI AIR PLUS, 2 dew heaters, and remote guide scope/auto guider. While this looks like a good idea.... i swap between a 80mm apo refractor and 8" sct/Hyperstar. The camera body diameter size and external antenna would be an issue with Hyperstar I would also want to know if it would be able to guide with Hyperstar.
It does seem like it’s a decent choice for beginners/those looking for a compact travel scope. I love that it has a guide camera built in, I’m not crazy that it’s locked to the ASIAIR system. While convenient to have the software all together, it doesn’t have the power or versatility that outside controllers have. Slow PC connectivity is a real negative to giving it a broader appeal. So basically there’s a time and place for it, but it won’t replace other current traditional setups.
Great video! As still a fan of the ZWO "walled garden" intrigued with this camera so your review really helped. As a tech guy, not really put off by NINA but for the past few years have been almost always pleased by what ZWO puts out with the ASIair and related gear. Being out here in Tucson provides lots of nights and areas for dark sky work and the boys at Starizona have been always helpful for any of the few ZWO questions I've had. All that said to say that I see a lot of value in the new 2600 here, maybe time to sell my MC533. Thanks again, excellent review and channel!!
I think for people like me, that have started off with a smart scope (SeeStar S50), this is the next big step up (cost & image quality). I get there are folks that want to “learn the hobby”, but that person isn’t me. I’m interested in producing quality images that I can print and sell. I’m in the “photography” hobby not “astrophotography”, so my focus is a printable image. I get that this adds risks by reducing components, but my SeeStar is an even more consolidated piece of equipment. The faster I can set up, the less I have to deal with, and the higher the image quality the more interested I am (as well as being within a budget for equipment).
I just pre-ordered one a few minutes before I found your video. My use case is strictly for the simplest portable setup. I have a larger setup with a QHY268 mono that I run with NINA in a semi permanent setup for my more 'serious' imaging. Thanks for this timely review.
Cool set-up for light travel rigs, where integration and simplicity is the main objective. The main drawback is what happens, when a sub-component fails… like the ASIAIR piece
I like the all in one clean look and simplicity. The duo was a little pricey but adding the air for 2k makes it a pretty good deal if you like the features. The PC issue is a bummer.
Thank you! A fascinating product. It may ruffle the feathers of some who may tend to resent ZWO's proprietary business model, while appealing to people like me who are indifferent to that given, and simply enjoy the beauty of simplification and efficiency within a workable budget. I applaud ZWO for its innovations and its obvious business saavy that produces a broad array of such cool products for all customers of myriad different astronomy setups and needs. I appreciate that you maintain an objective, fair, and informative point of view that takes varied customer attitudes and viewpoints into account. That elevates your earned credibility whenever you review any product. Bravo, sir!
Thank you so much! I do my utmost best to be fair and point out both the good and the bad in products (from my point of view), even though sometimes it can ruffle feathers :p
And guess what? I just bought the asi2600mc duo two weeks ago. I love the idea! I’m using all ZWO products anyway. And with Redcat51 it will be a perfect grab-n-go!
Thanks Cuiv, this was the torture test I was waiting for! I hope ZWO do fix the issue with PC control, just to assure that it can be used both ways - PC as well as ASIAir. This would be great as a travel rig or a fuss-free second rig. I will have to check whether the modular Lunt I want to get is capable of illuminating both sensors. If that's the case, I'd strongly consider getting it.
Man the amount of haters on this comment section is crazy. This is an incredibly awesome idea for a portable on-the-go setup. Especially if you use the am5n with the power out on the saddle.
There are so many people who love nothing more than to gatekeep astrophotography, although I do find it to be less prevalent on forums than in TH-cam comment sections.
People get so butthurt over gear. I’m an old school visual observer and for me it’s simply mind blowing how technology has evolved over the last few years. Even 10 years ago astrophotography was a totally different undertaking than it is now. The photos you can take with a relatively small and inexpensive setup are amazing. I’m totally in for it
I was watching this video again as it's still a very fun piece of equipment.. And then you reminded me the 2 reasons why I didn't buy it, even though it's quite tempting: 1) and that's the same issue for the duo : i always use narrowbands except for galaxies and I am very concerned that at 3nm-ish bandpass the guide camera (a 220 !) won't be able to guide properly 2) it's a color version, so less flexibility in the balance of the various signals But otherwise, the idea to have the camera, the guide camera and ASlair in a same tiny package is amazing. I wonder if they would try to release special filters with a clear window for those guide camera.. or possibly even more rectangle / square-ish filters to fit more properly the camera but not the guide camera. The latter is probably easier to do but then you would some sort of guide camera focus adjustment if not covered by the filter glass
Interesting development! Like the idea of less cable. I have a zwo2600mc pro and a zwo2600mc duo The last cs night my duo was tracking with absolute precision at mostly less than .5 total error. Also was running my askar65 with zwo533mc pro and asi air, askar 128 guide scope and zwo174 mini but track on that was mostly 1.0 or less but about twice the error of the duo. Not sure why but I’ve ordered a new usb 3.0 c to a flex cable from L Com and will see if that helps with the error on that setup. Also using a peg Astro rotator 2 or latest model. That runs on WiFi and access it with ms edge for rotational control. Works great for orienting Andromeda to fit nicely in 2600 duo Thanks for another excellent in depth video Cuiv…. CS!
Just to be aware and this is without the air integration - the 26000 duo camera is not really compatible with all telescopes to begin with. I've read some posts on cloudy nights forums how some setups the guide camera can't see the stars, because the focuser tube isn't wide enough. This is especially true for certain cassegrain type scopes and other setups with longer focal lengths. That's unfortunately a full stop for me for any of the duo- line up.
Good point! The guide sensor needs to have some light falling onto it (both 2600 Duo and Air). They should make a 585 version or 533 version with the guide chip far closer to the center to avoid that
Thanks! Very thorough, and I appreciate your perspective as an experienced astrophotographer. Sure it’s great for newbies, but will I miss NINA? Dunno, but your video will help me decide.
For a few years now I've been wondering if one of these manufacturers would come out with an aa-in-one solution, and we got a few products like the ZWO Seestar 50, but I was thinking something more more serious like a cross of a $2,000 - $5,000 setup with tripod/EQ mount, 80mm or higher optics, finder scope, controller, etc all as one integrated unit. ZWO could team up with someone like Williams Optics and EQ mount (some mounts have been sold under different names), anyway I think you get what I'm talking about. The reason I thought this would be a good idea is my own experience getting into the hobby and the myriad of options, some that work fine together, others that require the user to be their own diagnostic/repairman/designer. That way I could pick a unit within my budget, take it home, quick set up, align to the pole star, fire up software and go. The only thing I'd have to bring to the table is a computer.
I think its pretty awesome and really shocked at the price. Duo has to drop in price. Also think people who have multiple scopes would be interested because they can just easily swap everything from one scope to another with no need for multiple guide scopes or excessive tear down of one system to put on another
I am not on board with this one. ZWO is already trying to lock us in into their ecosystem. This takes this to the highest degree. I want my imaging computer to be used with any camera and any guide camera. Plus, what about the heat from the chip within the onboard AIR. I get it, everyone hates cable management, but it is not an unsurmountable problem.
It's a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. It's purely to increase ZWO's range of products for the sake of it. The astro community in general is *very* brand loyal. Look at Takahashi, Meade, ZWO, Altair etc... they have borderline cult like followings. ZWO can, and will release, basically anything they can to keep pumping the cash flow because people *WILL* buy it because it's a latest shiny red product.
That's fair - but as I say in the video, I feel like this camera is less egregious than the standalone ASIAIR which restricts all of your equipment. This camera restricts "only" EAF, Rotator, EFW... Still not great, but for some it's a fair price to pay for convenience. I'm not a big fan of ecosystems, whether Apple or ZWO, but I know many people were effectively rescued by the ASIAIR/the ASIAIR made the hobby possible for them and I can't ignore that either!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I have the ASI AIR too. I love it. But as I gain more experience in the hobby I am thinking of switching to NINA. I think the AAP is a great getaway drug when it comes to imaging computers. Excellent video, as usual. A long time follower of your channel!
Everything I have is ASI, it’s easy to operate, it’s affordable, it’s reliable, it Runs works with iPad. I will do anything to not drag around a laptop, extra cables, a box, a chair, extra power, noise…nope.
Very good presentation and explanation sir. Now that I am using a vespera 11 smartscope, this camera still looks way too complicated for anyone starting out in astrophotography. I just love the auto stacking and stretching of the images within the Vespera which is good enough for me. But to do better than the smartscopes this camera certainly looks the way to go for those that can afford all that zwo equipment, and a suitable telescope. Keep up the good work.
Hello Lazygeek i think for all who are looking for a new camera the asi 2600 air is a great option when the price range of about 2000$ is ok. For mobile use, there is nothing better, you only need a mount, in my case it is an AM3, this camera and a teleskop with F 7 or faster and you can start - wireless. Even if you plan for a telescope with F8 or slower it is possible, when you buy an extra guidscope plus a zwo guidecamera., many of astrophotographers will have this equipment in storage. You can connect this extra guidscope with this camera an in asiair app you can choose this outside guidscope as your guidscope. And if you want to connect with NINA, then you connect any outside guidscope via usb mit NINA, connect via usb this camera as maincamera with NINA , connect via usb any mount with NINA, and connect via usb any focuser with NINA, you only need an USB Hub. For all these components you can use the DC powerhub of ASI 2600 air camera. In this combination there are no limitations for equipment out of ZWO. Thank you for all your videos, i learned a lot. Wolfgang
The FF65 AM3 bundle and this camera is fantastic option for a beginner, or somebody moving up from a Seestar. I can't think of any easier or more convenient starter rig. But we are still looking at over $5000 when you add in EAF a filter drawer a filter or two and a portable battery.
Seems like it would be good as part of a travel or grab and go set up, or like you say for someone who is just happy to buy into the ZWO universe. There will be a market for this, perhaps people who want to go beyond the Cee Star C50 but don't want to complicate things too much, and I'm sure it will do well in that market. At the end of the day those images looked pretty good, a lot of people, myself included would be very happy with those, which is what it is all about. Nice review Cuiv. ( I won't be buying one as my existing systems do everything I want).
Sorry Cuiv! While I am CONFIDENT that the images from this hardware, PROVIDED one KNOWS how to employ it, is SPECTACULAR I personally am quite satisfied with the images provided by my VERY simple SEESTAR!
People can say what they will about ZWO and this camera. It’s amazing. I’ve used it in a 6” APO, .3 meter truss reflector. The option for wireless directly on the camera is fantastic. The read noise is fantastic for a color camera of crop sensor size. This is an excellent galaxy camera. Now they need to do a full frame mono version and people will have an even more powerful observatory, stationary or not. It absolutely shines in American and Japan made refractors and big reflectors.
@@TheScrvpt it does have this feature. And just like before you can also have it save frames, and even create calibration data with it. The live stack is one of the “smart” functions in addition to autofocus and the really well thought out shoot schedule. Really the major plus of this system is low power consumption of other devices. You can run the entire suite with a phone or tablet that uses significantly less power than a laptop. While it is nice to use a laptop, the wireless connection is the future of these cameras. Would be nice if it was fully supported and compatible with NINA. I’ve been doing AP for so long now the traditional way. I’m a sucker for smooth workflows. Shoot and auto guide using the schedule. Then download my frames onto the computer and boom straight into PixInsight. ZWO has a good beginner setup here I think as well. They do make setup easy. I don’t use ZWO mounts though, or their filter wheel. Just camera and focuser with the temp probe.
@@TheScrvpt sure thing! And really any camera with this sensor is a major step up from mirrorless or dslrs. These cameras are really down to individual preferences now days. I do wish you luck and I hope you get good results.
Forget about the blue thing. I love the idea of this camera, but I've already found reasons not to like my duo if I want to move it around, I end up using it like a non duo. I think you warned us in your duo review. Really cool to have all in one without cables, perhaps especially for remote observing.
Because ZWO kept the price reasonable, I will buy this camera, not just for the cable advantage, but also because it has 256GB vs my ASIAIR mini with only 32GB. That’s a small convenience which might eliminate the use of a thumb drive.
While I'm definitely not in the ZWO ecosystem (one of my scopes has a 533 and an AM5N and that's it), I have to recognize that for people that want to upgrade from a basic DSLR setup or for people that want/like to travel to dark skies this is definitely a good solution and lowers the anxiety of forgetting something. I don't think is a good solution for a backyard especially under Bortle 7+ skies (that would be true for the duo as well) and if any of the three components fails, you lose all three.
Great video as usual! But please be careful when sharing your location info! I hope your comfortable with it :) Also, I love the depth of information you share. I’m a real detail kinda person and the depth of your reviews really speak to me! Thanks :)
You have the rotator now don't you? That smile when you said it doesn't exist yet... Okay okay, maybe just being super hopeful that it'll FINALLY come out but heres to hoping it's soon haha.
Oh man, I wish I could say something like "I can neither confirm nor deny" but no, no unfortunately I don't have the rotator... I think they're hoping to release it this year though... Interesting how long it's taking them
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Haha fair, well thanks for the honesty and I will curb my enthusiasm for a while then. It's very interesting, I am so curious as to why there has been such a delay.
A couple generations later, it should come with an integrated battery, and the EAF at that point should have a separate power input, and BlueTooth connectivity. Then we would be able to run this entirely cable-lessly. At which point this would be a great option, especially for something like HyperStar/RASA.
The EAF used to have power input - and a battery to run the Peltier cooler would either be huge and heavy (completely impractical) or run out after an hour... That said, integrating a microfocuser within the body of the camera should be possible
Personally, I think this is a good idea for a small/median size portable rig. Now if they had just built in a filter ring like the ASI1600GT it would be perfect for an easy portable rig LOL. I can't afford it at the moment but maybe if I can in the future I might think about it.
Sounds great but for use with PC/NINA it is a no-go for me as I do not have/use ASIAIR. I prefer being able to mix gear via NINA/PC.... Like you, NINA is great.
My issue? When something breaks on it what's the point? it will be a very expensive paperweight I'm not a fan of all in one with sensitive equipment like this
@nikaxstrophotography i was just coming to say the same thing, i saw a review on a different channel and started off thinking what a great idea i am going to get one. then someone comment as you have and made me think yeah very good point if it breaks........Not for me anymore.
Good point! If any of the internal components break it's going to be painful. I've had one piece of electronics break on me in the hobby and it was a ZWO camera main board after many years (1600MC Cool 1st version, with the ST-4 port), they changed it for $100 - here I assume the cost would be higher. Convenience (assuming you use the internal ASIAIR) vs compromises...!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Fair reply, i am just trying to get back into my Astrophotography and my cable management sucks so thought this would be good as as per the reasons above not for me, but like you said i guess ZWO would fix it....i guess...😁
Kinda like it.. I mean, it makes sense and puts a lot into one unit.. great for a travel rig! honestly might get one eventually to make the portable setup even simpler.. as I was considering a 2600MC(possibly duo) for that already anyway.. and the price is similar enough The only thing I somewhat don't like about this, is that it is 3 units in one. Great for traveling, but for home use, the modularity is probably preferred. - I doubt that there is much need for it; but you can't upgrade any of the bits, which makes this setup somewhat bad for future proofing. And if one of the 3 fails, the whole thing fails.. As for the ecosystem complaints.. yes, you're locked in into ZWO, but I guess that upset some.. But who probably have 90% ZWO products anyway.. most likely with their ZWO camera, ZWO focuser, ZWO filterwheel, on their ZWO AM5, and ASIAIR, complaining that they can't use your QHY guide camera with that set up..? Is it so bad to be "locked" in a brand that honestly is one of the few to still innovate and bring out new products that actually make sense and do actually work?.. and work really well together? - I mean.. what has Skywatcher done since the EQ6-r? other than releasing the EQ8 beyond a normal budget and a strain wave mount about 3 years after ZWO brought an affordable one to the table?.. what has Celestron done other than riding their Schmidt C8-11 train? what has William optics done other than just releasing the same scope with 4 or 5 lenses? I'd understand the ecosystem complaints a little more if the products were actually bad, and you were forced into using a guide camera or focuser or filterwheel that was actually bad.. the only things ZWO is bad at in my eyes is proper remote imaging (although it is possibly through vpns), and dual setups.. I'd love to connect 2 ZWO's together and have them talk to each other for a Frankenstein setup.
Good points! And yes it's great for a travel rig! As for the lock-in, it's less of an issue for this camera, it becomes more of an issue with the standalone ASIAIR (where ZWO cameras tend to be more expensive than equally capable ones from Touptek for instance, and so the ASIAIR prevents you from saving literally hundreds of dollars on some models). And of course there's the stuff ZWO doesn't offer (rotator, flat panel/dust cap combo, etc.) that the ASIAIR doesn't support - there are clear disadvantages for the consumer with a lock-in, and clear advantages of such an ecosystem at the same time.
Great video. Thank u for all the NINA guidance!!! Does the new integrated camera ASI2600 MC AIR require a ZWO mount??? Would it work with skywatcher EQ6R pro?????? Thanks again
It is not a revolution but sooooo convenient. Especially if you want to build a small travel setup that also minimises the power usage. Marketing wise it is brilliant and I hope that the competition is able to respond in time. Because a world with only ZWO is not what I want.
Great video Cuiv, I have never got caught into the ZWO eco system, but would it not be a good idea to have a PC version of the ASIair software, so people could use it on a mini PC over Wi-Fi if required…as we do with NINA, or can that be done using Remote Desktop into the ASIair and get it displayed on a PC screen..? for me using a smart phone or tablet, would just not be feasible
I just realized that besides camera and asi air, your rig is literally the same as mine with the misplaced touptek guide camera connected to the svbony guidescope 😂
I love ZWO, because I *am* lazy. I will certainly buy this when available. I see the point in "open source" and "diversity", the possibility to use different hw handled by (good) sw, but I don't care anymore. Kudos to all you Astro nerds that keep on fiddling with NINA , KSTARS/EKOS/Indy/"whatever", and pointing out the bad guy (ZWO). If cost is the issue, use a phone. Oh, that cost more than this thingy. 🤪 (Can't understand the cost argument, as I am *sure* those bringing that to the table have used thousands of $ on astrogear)
I really like the idea of having everything in one system. This camera is on the top of my list of Astro purchases. Just wish they made a mono version.
I think they will if the OSC version is successful! I think this AIO approach has its merits (and drawbacks as shown in the video!), will be interesting to see how successful ZWO is!
Thanks again for showing us your videos, they are always super interesting and I always learn something new. I use N.I.N.A. also thanks to your tutorials. I would like to photograph the Pleiades next winter but I would have to use the panels and I don't know how to merge them in the processing phase. Could you show us various methods please with Pixinsight or Photoshop please? Thanks again for everything.
Would be good for a compact grab and go setup. Originally i thought would be good for a beginner but a cheaper camera like the 533 would have been better for that sense.
Greattttttt video as per usual! As a beginner, and using the SeestarS50 at the moment, ZWO is getting kinda familiar! How Will the setup work in Southern Hemisphere, without north star?
The polar alignment would work in the Southern Hemisphere, the ASIAIR algorithm (which they really took from NINA) doesn't rely on any given star or asterism, you can even polar align without a view of the celestial pole! But of course besides this camera you'd need a scope and mount, so things definitely get more complex than the Seestar!
I could see this as a great super light and super portable solution along with a small ASI Mount and a scope with ASI auto focuser, but don't like that the air does not support much other equipment making it not flexible, at least from my understanding about the air is that it does not support non-asi focusers, filter wheels and non-asi mounts - if the air software does support those now then I think this is great, otherwise I think it's great for an AIO portable setup but not necessarily for those who already have mixed equipment.
It would make sooo much more sense to put the asi air into the mount and have the ports come out of the mounting plate.I mean you might want to change cameras but the mount pretty much stays the same
I am a nature photographer and use my Sony A7RIII + Canon 600/4 for astrophotography, on an unguided SWSAGTI. I simply don't have room for all the additional gear necessary to enable guiding when traveling, but this might be the solution I have been waiting for. It would require purchasing the astromechanics eos adapter, and then I would probably switch to a ZWO AM5N mount. The only question is if enough light would reach the guide camera since the astromechanics adapter cutout is rectangular shaped to allow fullframe exposure whereas telescope tubes are generally completely round. Since the main camera is APS-C I am guessing/hoping that at least some of the light should fall on the guide camera. Would you care to make an educated guess?
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I think it should be ok, as long as I get some light on the guide camera. I shoot wide open but the lens needs power even to focus manually which is why I need the astromechanics adapter, and I have seen that it is possible to focus a Canon telephoto lens with the ZWO EAF using a belt.
I used to think so, but I'm not so sure anymore... I don't feel like I want to have the mount completely dependent on an internal ASIAIR (as this camera is)
IMHO, we are now at a point where price is a bigger barrier - not complexity. We need a lower cost of entry with a SeeStar V2 vs a fully integrated 2600. As the demographic of astro imaging shifts from mid 50-60 year olds down to 18-24 year olds, cost is a waaaaay bigger factor.
Yeah I see what you're saying! The Seestar and the Dwarf to me are the lowest cost entry points that provide decent simplicity and automation - and I think this camera has its niche. It will be interesting to see how popular it is!
ZWO is a great ecosystem. Analogous to the Ford ecosystem, its great variety and quality. Some people thrive on complexity and fiddling with a boat load of software and drivers and nearly incompatible Frankenstein systems....have a nice life. The only downside I see with this multi-component device is that, if one part craps out, it takes down the other parts.
Nice setup. Now you have to shop for a bit shorter cables. I wish ZWO would offer a saddle plate upgrade for my “old” AM5. Can you please suggest this to them for me?
Thank you for teling us from this fascinating product. One downside for me is the lack of a lan port. Can you tell me, what is the range of the wifi hotspot? Thanks a lot!
Hi Cuiv another very informative vidio. I would much rather it was done with the single MC & not the Duo the the filter wheel with nano filters is much better. PS. Is the guied in the camera comparable to PHD2
Initially, I found the product interesting as a nice all in one solution for a travelling setup, but sadly there are for me 2 deal breakers: - the lack of a proper PC connection. ZWO could have implemented through the USB-C port but chose not to do so, possibly to lock you in completely in their ecosystem - the absence of micro SD slot. For me, the preferred way to transfer pictures after a session is to remove the SD card and plug it into my Mac. By the way Cuiv, have you been in touch with Touptek to review their coming competitor to the AsiAir ? I would really like to have more information on this product
Yep I fully understand those can be dealbreakers, it really depends on each! Yes, I'm looking forward to the Touptek AstroStation! I don't have it on hand yet...
20 years ago, I had an SBIG mono camera with integrated guide chip. I’m almost positive that SBIG had a patent, which is now finally expired. BTW, that camera’s software could also align and stack the subframes as each subframe came in. I don’t know if they had a patent on that too - maybe.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Yes, that is why I mentioned it. SBIG was a leader in their day. I had their ST-2000XM with filter wheel. I could only afford the 2Mp sensor in those days.
If I was thinking of getting an APC size sensor camera then in this enjoyable video you sold it to me, but I don’t really need that huge FOV at the moment. M27 was detailed but tiny. Have you ever used the Bluestacks emulator to run your ASIAIR from? I think it’s good but have struggled to update the ASIAIR app to the latest version in it. Would you possibly make a video using and updating within this emulator please. Thanks as always. Great video, super content.
Hey Cuiv, do you recall if there was an option in the power section to control the power going to the two DC output ports? I received mine this week and just went through some system checks. This feature is missing for me; therefore, I can not manage the power going to my dew strips. I'm new to the Zwo platform, so maybe I'm just missing something. A quick Google search tells me this was a feature included in the Plus version but not the Mini. I'm disappointed.
All-in-one is handy if you are entirely in their system. However, the DUO is an special usage function. I bought the 2600MM Duo, and use it with 3nm filters on a f3.8 scope, and I have to use 3 second guide exposures for guiding to function. Luckily my mount behaves well, but I can't use it on my harmonic drive mount that does better at .5-1.0 second guide impulses. . I wonder why ZWO doesn't allow us to set the Offset in the ASIAIR?
Yep, 3nm filters will be too much for the guide sensor, forcing long guide exposures. I've seen that the WD20 seems to be fine with those longish exposures, but still.. As for the Offset, they set a value high enough that it's never going to be an issue, although it does sacrifice a tiny bit of dynamic range...
I just received my 2600MC AIR & I’m confused about selecting the proper power out for my dew heater & mount. I want to select a lower power (say 40%) for the dew heater. How do I know that I’m selecting the right one? And, even though everything is working properly, I don’t see any output voltage for the mount. Any thoughts?
I am likely missing something in the how to use this new camera. Is it possible to use it with the laptop? or is it limited to the ipad and iphone. Second, does it do live stacking?
Looks like a great product. But my greatest concern will be if one part goes bad then technically 3 parts will have to be shipped for service. And wait…it doesn’t come in a carry pouch?!
I remember laughing at this when it was first announced, but now I'm really seeing the appeal. I'm constantly packing 40-ish items into a hiking backpack every time I go out to image, and dropping two devices and three cords really would be a great advantage for my use case. If I do decide to upgrade from my asi533mc Pro, this will definitely be on my radar. The main limitation for me would be that restriction for narrowband filters, as I am using a strainwave mount and I'd feel iffy about short guide exposures on the Optolong l-ultimate I've had my eye on.
My only concern would be the reliability of the Air component of the camera system. I'm on my second ASI AIR Plus because the first one bricked. What is the alternative?
Interesting! The Mini for me has been very stable (and uses a completely different processor and board than the RPi-based ASIAIR Plus), but it's a good point!
Have you done a video comparing why NINA is more useful to you vs the way ASI Air eco system does it ? For me les steps and less configuration leads to more imaging given the short amount of clear sky time I can get. Still would love to hear your thoughts on this
Addressed it in some live streams but basically: - have my sequence templates saved, so I can just click the play button to image (far fewer steps than ASIAir, where I have to fiddle with the app quite a bit before I'm imaging) - auto-copying my images over network, so they're always available on my processing computer - dithering every x frames is a per template/sequence setting I have in NINA, no risk of forgetting to change it when switching from broadband to narrowband and vice versa (unlike ASIAir, where I have forgotten to switch that setting, leading to huge imaging time loss or inability to drizzle) - I can set autofocus exposure length per filter in NINA, in ASIAir it's another easy to forget centralized setting (when switching from broadband to narrowband) - for mono: filter offsets. Allows saving a huge amount of imaging time by looping through filters without having to refocus (it's not available in ASIAir because it only supports overshoot backlash as part of its AF routine and not as part of focuser movements, where it only supports absolute backlash) - Better handling of multiple targets per night in NINA (image X until Y is above 30 degrees altitude for instance), also saved in my templates Overall, for me NINA is just faster, lazier, and less error-prone (because I have set it up properly :) )! The ASIAir is slower and more cumbersome, but far, far easier to do the initial setup!
Hello again, I am running into some interesting problems. One, after taking images for about 30 minutes the screen goes dark and does not show any more images!! Two, If I focus the 2600 vamera the guider gets off focus, if I focus the guider, the main camera goes out of focus!! so, i can not guide!!
Hi Cuiv! I'm wondering if the following setup is viable - ZWO ASI2600MC Air on a RASA/Hyperstar, wirelessly connected to an AM3/5. I haven't seen this mentioned in the cloudy nights or any of the reviews so far. p.s. I realized a power cable is still required... Surely someone could fix up a puck shaped power bank directly connected to the back of the ASI2600MC Air?
Ah, the old phrase of 'don't put all your eggs in one basket' comes to mind. No one at ZWO thought, I know... lets not put the ASI Air into a camera... lets put it in the mount! Or better yet, let's not integrate everything into one system :DD. Seriously the actual market for this is incredibly tiny, you really are better off getting the Air and 2600 separately as you say. I do like ZWO's demonstration of what they *can* do, but sometimes I feel like it should stay in the demo side of things lol. I definitely don't like their direction as a company and haven't for quite a few years now, but we have more competition than ever, so it could be worse ... :D
Completely understand! Actually I thought the same about the mount but I really wouldn't like a mount that depends on an internal ASIAIR! At the same time there's a lot of people I talk to who are really considering this camera as they like the AIO approach! Maybe the market is larger than we think?
I agree completely. I have so much ZWO equipment, including the duo and air. But I personally think putting all of this equipment into one unit is destined to be obsolete quickly. How many versions of the air have there already been? If one part of the system fails, the rest of it becomes an expensive doorstop, or you will need to send it back to ZWO for repairs. When next year ZWO comes out with another version of the air, this unit will start to look like a questionable purchase. Again, I love ZWO equipment. I just don't understand why ZWO is wasting resources making a unit like this when there is so much demand for a rotator. But that is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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Hey Cuiv! One thing I really like about this ZWO Mc Air 😄is that it allows for a perfect grab and go setup that reduces headaches of having all separate different components. The last time I went to a dark site was a disaster because everything worked but the computer would not boot! Everything worked at home but I guess the humidity prevented the computer from coming on. So even though you are limited to ZWO hardware, for a "just works" setup for taking to a dark site or your backyard. Plus with the cost of $2000, you don't need a separate guide camera, off-axis guider, or even a PC so you save money too. Since it seems like a lot of people have multiple rigs, why not have one that is all ZWO hardware with your own scope and mount? Frustration can cause people to leave the hobby but something like this can make things less frustrating including the spider web of cables that can snag. Thanks for this review as it shows all the benefits and pitfalls of this setup. CS!
It's indeed great for a second rig or a grab and go setup (main use case in my opinion)!
I would like to know if this product can Word with the Celestron AVX mount?
Cuiv, your videos are getting better and better. Excellent job. That rig is a perfect travel package. Great review. I learned a lot. All the best.
Thanks Rick! I do my best to present all sides :)
Agreed. Cuiv is becoming the go-to guy for everything astro. His reviews are honest and he spends a lot of time producing and reviewing his videos for accuracy.
As usual a brilliant well balanced and honest review. All my questions answered perfectly, including cooling performance. Thanks Cuiv!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the feedback!
Just started watching your channel...love the enthusiasm and unabashed presentation! I am a newby to astrophotography, but designed and built a Copper Dobsonian Telescope a few years ago. Keep it up!
Thanks so much for your support and your feedback Ted! And wow, designing and building a Copper Dob must have been such a fun project!!
Yup. What you said. ASI Air is a great way to get started, but don't box yourself in. I started a year ago with an Air and have out grown it. NINA is awesome. Thanks for the vid.
What exactly does NINA do better than an ASIAIR? Genuinely curious.
So you are locked in to NINA then?
@@himalaYAK1983 It allows you to use non ZWO equipment.
@@sammadonline Only if I want to be... I also use Sequence Generator Pro... what is the real question?
How have you “out grown” it after only a year?
Currently I have no need for this big setup but anything all-in-one interests me. They are the gateway substance to more advanced photography. Thank you again for detailed review.
My pleasure, thanks for watching!
As always, such a detailed and informtive review. I saw it at NEAF and thought it was a joke at first. I did see some use cases for it such as a new hobbyist or a grab and go setup. I am always concerned about any one part of that setup going bad and then being without all of your equipment. Honestly just for that reason, this should never be a primary rig. I can't imagine not being able to image for a long time due to one part of my setup being down.
Then you have to look at the fact that this will be the only camera you can use due to intergration. What they should do in the future is make it like an attachable add-on (modular system) that links directly to the camera buss, that way you would be able to swap out cameras. Yes, that would make a new ecosystem within ASIAIR, but it would make sense to me and be kinda cool.
Thanks Cuiv
The modular system idea is really good, it would solve a lot of the worries for this camera!
My setup has EAF, ASI AIR PLUS, 2 dew heaters, and remote guide scope/auto guider. While this looks like a good idea.... i swap between a 80mm apo refractor and 8" sct/Hyperstar. The camera body diameter size and external antenna would be an issue with Hyperstar I would also want to know if it would be able to guide with Hyperstar.
It does seem like it’s a decent choice for beginners/those looking for a compact travel scope. I love that it has a guide camera built in, I’m not crazy that it’s locked to the ASIAIR system. While convenient to have the software all together, it doesn’t have the power or versatility that outside controllers have. Slow PC connectivity is a real negative to giving it a broader appeal.
So basically there’s a time and place for it, but it won’t replace other current traditional setups.
Finally a good reason to upgrade from my mirrorless unguided, an ASIAIR + autoguiding setup + cooled cam :D
Nice! ;)
Great video! As still a fan of the ZWO "walled garden" intrigued with this camera so your review really helped. As a tech guy, not really put off by NINA but for the past few years have been almost always pleased by what ZWO puts out with the ASIair and related gear. Being out here in Tucson provides lots of nights and areas for dark sky work and the boys at Starizona have been always helpful for any of the few ZWO questions I've had. All that said to say that I see a lot of value in the new 2600 here, maybe time to sell my MC533. Thanks again, excellent review and channel!!
I think for people like me, that have started off with a smart scope (SeeStar S50), this is the next big step up (cost & image quality). I get there are folks that want to “learn the hobby”, but that person isn’t me. I’m interested in producing quality images that I can print and sell. I’m in the “photography” hobby not “astrophotography”, so my focus is a printable image. I get that this adds risks by reducing components, but my SeeStar is an even more consolidated piece of equipment. The faster I can set up, the less I have to deal with, and the higher the image quality the more interested I am (as well as being within a budget for equipment).
ahhhhh, found it, the button!! thanks, and I also I found the staking function!
I just pre-ordered one a few minutes before I found your video. My use case is strictly for the simplest portable setup. I have a larger setup with a QHY268 mono that I run with NINA in a semi permanent setup for my more 'serious' imaging. Thanks for this timely review.
My pleasure, I hope the review made you confident in your choice!
Just found your channel a few days ago. So much awesome information
Welcome to the channel! Glad it is helpful :)
Cool set-up for light travel rigs, where integration and simplicity is the main objective. The main drawback is what happens, when a sub-component fails… like the ASIAIR piece
Yep. Then it's a paperweight until it's repaired...
I like the all in one clean look and simplicity. The duo was a little pricey but adding the air for 2k makes it a pretty good deal if you like the features. The PC issue is a bummer.
I hope they can improve the PC connectivity
Thank you! A fascinating product. It may ruffle the feathers of some who may tend to resent ZWO's proprietary business model, while appealing to people like me who are indifferent to that given, and simply enjoy the beauty of simplification and efficiency within a workable budget. I applaud ZWO for its innovations and its obvious business saavy that produces a broad array of such cool products for all customers of myriad different astronomy setups and needs. I appreciate that you maintain an objective, fair, and informative point of view that takes varied customer attitudes and viewpoints into account. That elevates your earned credibility whenever you review any product. Bravo, sir!
Thank you so much! I do my utmost best to be fair and point out both the good and the bad in products (from my point of view), even though sometimes it can ruffle feathers :p
And guess what? I just bought the asi2600mc duo two weeks ago. I love the idea! I’m using all ZWO products anyway. And with Redcat51 it will be a perfect grab-n-go!
Thanks Cuiv, this was the torture test I was waiting for! I hope ZWO do fix the issue with PC control, just to assure that it can be used both ways - PC as well as ASIAir. This would be great as a travel rig or a fuss-free second rig. I will have to check whether the modular Lunt I want to get is capable of illuminating both sensors. If that's the case, I'd strongly consider getting it.
It's a good option for a travel rig/second rig!
Man the amount of haters on this comment section is crazy. This is an incredibly awesome idea for a portable on-the-go setup. Especially if you use the am5n with the power out on the saddle.
I think I've managed to annoy some people on both "sides" - I just show the positives and the negatives, then everyone can make up their mind :)
There are so many people who love nothing more than to gatekeep astrophotography, although I do find it to be less prevalent on forums than in TH-cam comment sections.
People get so butthurt over gear. I’m an old school visual observer and for me it’s simply mind blowing how technology has evolved over the last few years. Even 10 years ago astrophotography was a totally different undertaking than it is now. The photos you can take with a relatively small and inexpensive setup are amazing. I’m totally in for it
I was watching this video again as it's still a very fun piece of equipment.. And then you reminded me the 2 reasons why I didn't buy it, even though it's quite tempting:
1) and that's the same issue for the duo : i always use narrowbands except for galaxies and I am very concerned that at 3nm-ish bandpass the guide camera (a 220 !) won't be able to guide properly
2) it's a color version, so less flexibility in the balance of the various signals
But otherwise, the idea to have the camera, the guide camera and ASlair in a same tiny package is amazing. I wonder if they would try to release special filters with a clear window for those guide camera.. or possibly even more rectangle / square-ish filters to fit more properly the camera but not the guide camera. The latter is probably easier to do but then you would some sort of guide camera focus adjustment if not covered by the filter glass
Interesting development!
Like the idea of less cable.
I have a zwo2600mc pro and a zwo2600mc duo
The last cs night my duo was tracking with absolute precision at mostly less than .5 total error. Also was running my askar65 with zwo533mc pro and asi air, askar 128 guide scope and zwo174 mini but track on that was mostly 1.0 or less but about twice the error of the duo. Not sure why but I’ve ordered a new usb 3.0 c to a flex cable from L Com and will see if that helps with the error on that setup.
Also using a peg Astro rotator 2 or latest model. That runs on WiFi and access it with ms edge for rotational control. Works great for orienting Andromeda to fit nicely in 2600 duo
Thanks for another excellent in depth video Cuiv….
CS!
Hope you can get to the bottom of that guiding with the 174!
Just to be aware and this is without the air integration - the 26000 duo camera is not really compatible with all telescopes to begin with. I've read some posts on cloudy nights forums how some setups the guide camera can't see the stars, because the focuser tube isn't wide enough. This is especially true for certain cassegrain type scopes and other setups with longer focal lengths. That's unfortunately a full stop for me for any of the duo- line up.
Good point! The guide sensor needs to have some light falling onto it (both 2600 Duo and Air). They should make a 585 version or 533 version with the guide chip far closer to the center to avoid that
Hopefully they get shipped out quickly. Ordered my yesterday for my ZWO FF80 on AM5N mount.
Interesting. Definitely out of my budget but I might look into this if I build a second rig.
Definitely interesting but with limitations (such as price...)
Thanks! Very thorough, and I appreciate your perspective as an experienced astrophotographer. Sure it’s great for newbies, but will I miss NINA? Dunno, but your video will help me decide.
Thank you for your support! I really try my best :)
For a few years now I've been wondering if one of these manufacturers would come out with an aa-in-one solution, and we got a few products like the ZWO Seestar 50, but I was thinking something more more serious like a cross of a $2,000 - $5,000 setup with tripod/EQ mount, 80mm or higher optics, finder scope, controller, etc all as one integrated unit. ZWO could team up with someone like Williams Optics and EQ mount (some mounts have been sold under different names), anyway I think you get what I'm talking about. The reason I thought this would be a good idea is my own experience getting into the hobby and the myriad of options, some that work fine together, others that require the user to be their own diagnostic/repairman/designer. That way I could pick a unit within my budget, take it home, quick set up, align to the pole star, fire up software and go. The only thing I'd have to bring to the table is a computer.
youre getting quite popular cuiv! good on you mate =p
Thanks!
I think its pretty awesome and really shocked at the price. Duo has to drop in price. Also think people who have multiple scopes would be interested because they can just easily swap everything from one scope to another with no need for multiple guide scopes or excessive tear down of one system to put on another
I hope the Duo drops in price by like $100 or so, would be nice! Good point on the switching rigs part!
Very interesting content, very well explained! Thanks as usual for your excellent videos.
I am not on board with this one. ZWO is already trying to lock us in into their ecosystem. This takes this to the highest degree. I want my imaging computer to be used with any camera and any guide camera. Plus, what about the heat from the chip within the onboard AIR. I get it, everyone hates cable management, but it is not an unsurmountable problem.
It's a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. It's purely to increase ZWO's range of products for the sake of it. The astro community in general is *very* brand loyal. Look at Takahashi, Meade, ZWO, Altair etc... they have borderline cult like followings. ZWO can, and will release, basically anything they can to keep pumping the cash flow because people *WILL* buy it because it's a latest shiny red product.
That's fair - but as I say in the video, I feel like this camera is less egregious than the standalone ASIAIR which restricts all of your equipment. This camera restricts "only" EAF, Rotator, EFW... Still not great, but for some it's a fair price to pay for convenience.
I'm not a big fan of ecosystems, whether Apple or ZWO, but I know many people were effectively rescued by the ASIAIR/the ASIAIR made the hobby possible for them and I can't ignore that either!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I have the ASI AIR too. I love it. But as I gain more experience in the hobby I am thinking of switching to NINA. I think the AAP is a great getaway drug when it comes to imaging computers. Excellent video, as usual. A long time follower of your channel!
It's not like they are getting rid of their other cameras. You can always just buy the normal cameras if you'd like.
Everything I have is ASI, it’s easy to operate, it’s affordable, it’s reliable, it Runs works with iPad. I will do anything to not drag around a laptop, extra cables, a box, a chair, extra power, noise…nope.
Very good presentation and explanation sir. Now that I am using a vespera 11 smartscope, this camera still looks way too complicated for anyone starting out in astrophotography. I just love the auto stacking and stretching of the images within the Vespera which is good enough for me. But to do better than the smartscopes this camera certainly looks the way to go for those that can afford all that zwo equipment, and a suitable telescope. Keep up the good work.
Hello Lazygeek
i think for all who are looking for a new camera the asi 2600 air is a great option when the price range of about 2000$ is ok.
For mobile use, there is nothing better, you only need a mount, in my case it is an AM3, this camera and a teleskop with F 7 or faster and you can start - wireless.
Even if you plan for a telescope with F8 or slower it is possible, when you buy an extra guidscope plus a zwo guidecamera., many of astrophotographers will have this equipment in storage.
You can connect this extra guidscope with this camera an in asiair app you can choose this outside guidscope as your guidscope.
And if you want to connect with NINA, then you connect any outside guidscope via usb mit NINA, connect via usb this camera as maincamera with NINA , connect via usb any mount with NINA, and connect via usb any focuser with NINA, you only need an USB Hub. For all these components you can use the DC powerhub of ASI 2600 air camera.
In this combination there are no limitations for equipment out of ZWO.
Thank you for all your videos, i learned a lot.
Wolfgang
Great review, thank you! Actually you can use it from PC with ASI Studio.
The FF65 AM3 bundle and this camera is fantastic option for a beginner, or somebody moving up from a Seestar. I can't think of any easier or more convenient starter rig. But we are still looking at over $5000 when you add in EAF a filter drawer a filter or two and a portable battery.
Seems like it would be good as part of a travel or grab and go set up, or like you say for someone who is just happy to buy into the ZWO universe. There will be a market for this, perhaps people who want to go beyond the Cee Star C50 but don't want to complicate things too much, and I'm sure it will do well in that market. At the end of the day those images looked pretty good, a lot of people, myself included would be very happy with those, which is what it is all about. Nice review Cuiv. ( I won't be buying one as my existing systems do everything I want).
Thanks for the feedback! I think you hit the nail on the head here!
This would be great for a short FL travel rig if your budget was endless. Thank you, Cuiv.
Yep!
Sorry Cuiv! While I am CONFIDENT that the images from this hardware, PROVIDED one KNOWS how to employ it, is SPECTACULAR I personally am quite satisfied with the images provided by my VERY simple SEESTAR!
Hey that works! The Seestar is an excellent system!
People can say what they will about ZWO and this camera. It’s amazing. I’ve used it in a 6” APO, .3 meter truss reflector. The option for wireless directly on the camera is fantastic. The read noise is fantastic for a color camera of crop sensor size. This is an excellent galaxy camera. Now they need to do a full frame mono version and people will have an even more powerful observatory, stationary or not. It absolutely shines in American and Japan made refractors and big reflectors.
Dumb question, but does it live stack on your phone to get the final image?
@@TheScrvpt it does have this feature. And just like before you can also have it save frames, and even create calibration data with it. The live stack is one of the “smart” functions in addition to autofocus and the really well thought out shoot schedule. Really the major plus of this system is low power consumption of other devices. You can run the entire suite with a phone or tablet that uses significantly less power than a laptop. While it is nice to use a laptop, the wireless connection is the future of these cameras. Would be nice if it was fully supported and compatible with NINA. I’ve been doing AP for so long now the traditional way. I’m a sucker for smooth workflows. Shoot and auto guide using the schedule. Then download my frames onto the computer and boom straight into PixInsight. ZWO has a good beginner setup here I think as well. They do make setup easy. I don’t use ZWO mounts though, or their filter wheel. Just camera and focuser with the temp probe.
@@jameskirk172 nice! Thank you for the reply. I’ve been studying ap and I’m going to buy once cry once since I’ve been saving up for it. Wish me luck!
@@TheScrvpt sure thing! And really any camera with this sensor is a major step up from mirrorless or dslrs. These cameras are really down to individual preferences now days. I do wish you luck and I hope you get good results.
Forget about the blue thing. I love the idea of this camera, but I've already found reasons not to like my duo if I want to move it around, I end up using it like a non duo. I think you warned us in your duo review. Really cool to have all in one without cables, perhaps especially for remote observing.
Yep I understand what you mean! It's a cool concept for sure!
Because ZWO kept the price reasonable, I will buy this camera, not just for the cable advantage, but also because it has 256GB vs my ASIAIR mini with only 32GB. That’s a small convenience which might eliminate the use of a thumb drive.
Sounds good!
While I'm definitely not in the ZWO ecosystem (one of my scopes has a 533 and an AM5N and that's it), I have to recognize that for people that want to upgrade from a basic DSLR setup or for people that want/like to travel to dark skies this is definitely a good solution and lowers the anxiety of forgetting something.
I don't think is a good solution for a backyard especially under Bortle 7+ skies (that would be true for the duo as well) and if any of the three components fails, you lose all three.
Yep, I agree!
Thanks for this video. Hello from France
My pleasure! Hope you have clear skies in France!
@@CuivTheLazyGeeknot really unfortunately 😢
Cuiv! Big fan here! Have you heard if/when ZWO plans to release a monochrome version of this product?
No word yet...!
Hey Cuiv, a favor to ask. Will you post a notification when T CrB goes nova? I check it visually often. Thank you for all your content, Bill.
Great video as usual! But please be careful when sharing your location info! I hope your comfortable with it :)
Also, I love the depth of information you share. I’m a real detail kinda person and the depth of your reviews really speak to me! Thanks :)
Thank you!! Don't worry, the location info shown is moved from my real location!
You have the rotator now don't you? That smile when you said it doesn't exist yet... Okay okay, maybe just being super hopeful that it'll FINALLY come out but heres to hoping it's soon haha.
Oh man, I wish I could say something like "I can neither confirm nor deny" but no, no unfortunately I don't have the rotator... I think they're hoping to release it this year though... Interesting how long it's taking them
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Haha fair, well thanks for the honesty and I will curb my enthusiasm for a while then. It's very interesting, I am so curious as to why there has been such a delay.
A couple generations later, it should come with an integrated battery, and the EAF at that point should have a separate power input, and BlueTooth connectivity. Then we would be able to run this entirely cable-lessly. At which point this would be a great option, especially for something like HyperStar/RASA.
The EAF used to have power input - and a battery to run the Peltier cooler would either be huge and heavy (completely impractical) or run out after an hour...
That said, integrating a microfocuser within the body of the camera should be possible
Thanks!
Personally, I think this is a good idea for a small/median size portable rig. Now if they had just built in a filter ring like the ASI1600GT it would be perfect for an easy portable rig LOL. I can't afford it at the moment but maybe if I can in the future I might think about it.
I'd prefer an in-body microfocuser that moves the sensor assembly back and forth :p The Filter wheel is less useful than for a monochrome camera!
Sounds great but for use with PC/NINA it is a no-go for me as I do not have/use ASIAIR. I prefer being able to mix gear via NINA/PC.... Like you, NINA is great.
Yep, not for PC/NINA users, unless you want it for a separate portable rig for instance
My issue? When something breaks on it what's the point? it will be a very expensive paperweight I'm not a fan of all in one with sensitive equipment like this
@nikaxstrophotography i was just coming to say the same thing, i saw a review on a different channel and started off thinking what a great idea i am going to get one. then someone comment as you have and made me think yeah very good point if it breaks........Not for me anymore.
@@craigyboy542 Don't get me wrong it's a great innovation but too risky for such sensitive equipment.
Good point! If any of the internal components break it's going to be painful. I've had one piece of electronics break on me in the hobby and it was a ZWO camera main board after many years (1600MC Cool 1st version, with the ST-4 port), they changed it for $100 - here I assume the cost would be higher.
Convenience (assuming you use the internal ASIAIR) vs compromises...!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Fair reply, i am just trying to get back into my Astrophotography and my cable management sucks so thought this would be good as as per the reasons above not for me, but like you said i guess ZWO would fix it....i guess...😁
Kinda like it.. I mean, it makes sense and puts a lot into one unit.. great for a travel rig!
honestly might get one eventually to make the portable setup even simpler.. as I was considering a 2600MC(possibly duo) for that already anyway.. and the price is similar enough
The only thing I somewhat don't like about this, is that it is 3 units in one. Great for traveling, but for home use, the modularity is probably preferred. - I doubt that there is much need for it; but you can't upgrade any of the bits, which makes this setup somewhat bad for future proofing. And if one of the 3 fails, the whole thing fails..
As for the ecosystem complaints.. yes, you're locked in into ZWO, but I guess that upset some.. But who probably have 90% ZWO products anyway.. most likely with their ZWO camera, ZWO focuser, ZWO filterwheel, on their ZWO AM5, and ASIAIR, complaining that they can't use your QHY guide camera with that set up..?
Is it so bad to be "locked" in a brand that honestly is one of the few to still innovate and bring out new products that actually make sense and do actually work?.. and work really well together? - I mean.. what has Skywatcher done since the EQ6-r? other than releasing the EQ8 beyond a normal budget and a strain wave mount about 3 years after ZWO brought an affordable one to the table?.. what has Celestron done other than riding their Schmidt C8-11 train? what has William optics done other than just releasing the same scope with 4 or 5 lenses?
I'd understand the ecosystem complaints a little more if the products were actually bad, and you were forced into using a guide camera or focuser or filterwheel that was actually bad.. the only things ZWO is bad at in my eyes is proper remote imaging (although it is possibly through vpns), and dual setups.. I'd love to connect 2 ZWO's together and have them talk to each other for a Frankenstein setup.
Good points! And yes it's great for a travel rig!
As for the lock-in, it's less of an issue for this camera, it becomes more of an issue with the standalone ASIAIR (where ZWO cameras tend to be more expensive than equally capable ones from Touptek for instance, and so the ASIAIR prevents you from saving literally hundreds of dollars on some models). And of course there's the stuff ZWO doesn't offer (rotator, flat panel/dust cap combo, etc.) that the ASIAIR doesn't support - there are clear disadvantages for the consumer with a lock-in, and clear advantages of such an ecosystem at the same time.
Great video. Thank u for all the NINA guidance!!! Does the new integrated camera ASI2600 MC AIR require a ZWO mount??? Would it work with skywatcher EQ6R pro?????? Thanks again
I would work with the EQ6R Pro, and I use it in the video with a non ZWO mount (UMi 17 Lite)!
Super review. Curious how the ASIAIR WiFi connected to the mount to eliminate the old cable. Thanks again
Oh that's true! You can actually connect from the camera to the mount wirelessly to remove one additional cable
It is not a revolution but sooooo convenient. Especially if you want to build a small travel setup that also minimises the power usage. Marketing wise it is brilliant and I hope that the competition is able to respond in time. Because a world with only ZWO is not what I want.
Yep, really, really convenient! I've seen Touptek do more and more strides in the hobby and I hope they can catch up with ZWO!
Great video Cuiv, I have never got caught into the ZWO eco system, but would it not be a good idea to have a PC version of the ASIair software, so people could use it on a mini PC over Wi-Fi if required…as we do with NINA, or can that be done using Remote Desktop into the ASIair and get it displayed on a PC screen..? for me using a smart phone or tablet, would just not be feasible
Yes I would love that - it can work on Android simulators like BlueStacks, but a native PC app would be nice.
I just realized that besides camera and asi air, your rig is literally the same as mine with the misplaced touptek guide
camera connected to the svbony guidescope 😂
I love ZWO, because I *am* lazy. I will certainly buy this when available. I see the point in "open source" and "diversity", the possibility to use different hw handled by (good) sw, but I don't care anymore. Kudos to all you Astro nerds that keep on fiddling with NINA , KSTARS/EKOS/Indy/"whatever", and pointing out the bad guy (ZWO). If cost is the issue, use a phone. Oh, that cost more than this thingy. 🤪 (Can't understand the cost argument, as I am *sure* those bringing that to the table have used thousands of $ on astrogear)
Yep, fully understood! And I tried to present this camera to both sides in the video (hopefully I don't end up annoying everyone 🤣)
I really like the idea of having everything in one system. This camera is on the top of my list of Astro purchases. Just wish they made a mono version.
I think they will if the OSC version is successful! I think this AIO approach has its merits (and drawbacks as shown in the video!), will be interesting to see how successful ZWO is!
zwo love the idea of it too, especially after one of the parts stops working in a few years...
Thanks again for showing us your videos, they are always super interesting and I always learn something new.
I use N.I.N.A. also thanks to your tutorials.
I would like to photograph the Pleiades next winter but I would have to use the panels and I don't know how to merge them in the processing phase. Could you show us various methods please with Pixinsight or Photoshop please? Thanks again for everything.
Would be good for a compact grab and go setup. Originally i thought would be good for a beginner but a cheaper camera like the 533 would have been better for that sense.
True, or a 585!
It all sounds good. ❤
Greattttttt video as per usual! As a beginner, and using the SeestarS50 at the moment, ZWO is getting kinda familiar! How Will the setup work in Southern Hemisphere, without north star?
The polar alignment would work in the Southern Hemisphere, the ASIAIR algorithm (which they really took from NINA) doesn't rely on any given star or asterism, you can even polar align without a view of the celestial pole! But of course besides this camera you'd need a scope and mount, so things definitely get more complex than the Seestar!
I could see this as a great super light and super portable solution along with a small ASI Mount and a scope with ASI auto focuser, but don't like that the air does not support much other equipment making it not flexible, at least from my understanding about the air is that it does not support non-asi focusers, filter wheels and non-asi mounts - if the air software does support those now then I think this is great, otherwise I think it's great for an AIO portable setup but not necessarily for those who already have mixed equipment.
Yep, that's exactly right - this supports non-ZWO mounts, but only supports ZWO EAF and EFW for instance
Samyang 135 2600mc air sky watch star adventurer GTI. L-extreme. ZWO EAF. I’m happy
That's a great use case!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I’m going to try retro fit it to my rasa 11 and have the antenna straight
It would make sooo much more sense to put the asi air into the mount and have the ports come out of the mounting plate.I mean you might want to change cameras but the mount pretty much stays the same
I used to think that as well, but I don't think I'd be comfortable with my mount requiring the internal ASIAIR to work :p
I love seeing the high end gear, but I'm curious how budget and hyper-budget compares.
In the end when it comes to cameras, a cheap(er) 585 sensor will perform just as well, you'll just have a smaller field of view!
I am a nature photographer and use my Sony A7RIII + Canon 600/4 for astrophotography, on an unguided SWSAGTI. I simply don't have room for all the additional gear necessary to enable guiding when traveling, but this might be the solution I have been waiting for. It would require purchasing the astromechanics eos adapter, and then I would probably switch to a ZWO AM5N mount. The only question is if enough light would reach the guide camera since the astromechanics adapter cutout is rectangular shaped to allow fullframe exposure whereas telescope tubes are generally completely round. Since the main camera is APS-C I am guessing/hoping that at least some of the light should fall on the guide camera. Would you care to make an educated guess?
There's one problem with this: the ASIAir/camera can't control the Astromechanics adapter...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I think it should be ok, as long as I get some light on the guide camera. I shoot wide open but the lens needs power even to focus manually which is why I need the astromechanics adapter, and I have seen that it is possible to focus a Canon telephoto lens with the ZWO EAF using a belt.
They should have put it in the mount!
I used to think so, but I'm not so sure anymore... I don't feel like I want to have the mount completely dependent on an internal ASIAIR (as this camera is)
IMHO, we are now at a point where price is a bigger barrier - not complexity. We need a lower cost of entry with a SeeStar V2 vs a fully integrated 2600. As the demographic of astro imaging shifts from mid 50-60 year olds down to 18-24 year olds, cost is a waaaaay bigger factor.
Yeah I see what you're saying! The Seestar and the Dwarf to me are the lowest cost entry points that provide decent simplicity and automation - and I think this camera has its niche. It will be interesting to see how popular it is!
ZWO is a great ecosystem. Analogous to the Ford ecosystem, its great variety and quality. Some people thrive on complexity and fiddling with a boat load of software and drivers and nearly incompatible Frankenstein systems....have a nice life. The only downside I see with this multi-component device is that, if one part craps out, it takes down the other parts.
It's a very good ecosystem for sure! I find NINA simpler for me than the ASIAIR as I have everything dialed down but to each their own!
I have 2 rigs with 2600's and im thinking of going back to PC. Hate being locked in to ZWO!
Enjoy the journey back to PC (and hopefully NINA!)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks C 🤞
Nice setup. Now you have to shop for a bit shorter cables. I wish ZWO would offer a saddle plate upgrade for my “old” AM5. Can you please suggest this to them for me?
It would be nice if they offered a retrofit, but I don't think they have the proper cabling in place for the original AM5
Thank you for teling us from this fascinating product. One downside for me is the lack of a lan port. Can you tell me, what is the range of the wifi hotspot? Thanks a lot!
The wifi range seems to be on par with the ASIAIR mini - it's difficult for me to test without going into the field though!
Hi Cuiv another very informative vidio.
I would much rather it was done with the single MC & not the Duo the the filter wheel with nano filters is much better.
PS. Is the guied in the camera comparable to PHD2
Yep, completely get it! Or with a 585 or 533 sensor for much cheaper. The ASIAIR system uses a light version of PHD2 for guiding
Initially, I found the product interesting as a nice all in one solution for a travelling setup, but sadly there are for me 2 deal breakers:
- the lack of a proper PC connection. ZWO could have implemented through the USB-C port but chose not to do so, possibly to lock you in completely in their ecosystem
- the absence of micro SD slot. For me, the preferred way to transfer pictures after a session is to remove the SD card and plug it into my Mac.
By the way Cuiv, have you been in touch with Touptek to review their coming competitor to the AsiAir ? I would really like to have more information on this product
Yep I fully understand those can be dealbreakers, it really depends on each!
Yes, I'm looking forward to the Touptek AstroStation! I don't have it on hand yet...
If they want to catch the beginners, they should do this with the 585 sensor. That sensor is a killer and would be more affordable
That would be cool! A $1000 version with the 585, and can still use M42
20 years ago, I had an SBIG mono camera with integrated guide chip. I’m almost positive that SBIG had a patent, which is now finally expired. BTW, that camera’s software could also align and stack the subframes as each subframe came in. I don’t know if they had a patent on that too - maybe.
Interesting! This camera can also do the live stacking (because ASIAIR)!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Yes, that is why I mentioned it. SBIG was a leader in their day. I had their ST-2000XM with filter wheel. I could only afford the 2Mp sensor in those days.
If I was thinking of getting an APC size sensor camera then in this enjoyable video you sold it to me, but I don’t really need that huge FOV at the moment. M27 was detailed but tiny. Have you ever used the Bluestacks emulator to run your ASIAIR from? I think it’s good but have struggled to update the ASIAIR app to the latest version in it. Would you possibly make a video using and updating within this emulator please. Thanks as always. Great video, super content.
I haven't used Bluestacks much for this, no...
You can use Nina with asi2600mc air…??
Also do we need to replace the fan. ..??
I have a Mead ACF SCT on a Skywatcher EQr pro mount with a ASI 120 mini guide scope Do you think this would be a good choice for me.
Greetings from NYC! HEY would this work with my EQ6R PRO mount?? Thanks.
Yes, it should! You will need to right cable though (check on ZWO website)
Hey Cuiv, do you recall if there was an option in the power section to control the power going to the two DC output ports? I received mine this week and just went through some system checks. This feature is missing for me; therefore, I can not manage the power going to my dew strips. I'm new to the Zwo platform, so maybe I'm just missing something. A quick Google search tells me this was a feature included in the Plus version but not the Mini. I'm disappointed.
All-in-one is handy if you are entirely in their system. However, the DUO is an special usage function. I bought the 2600MM Duo, and use it with 3nm filters on a f3.8 scope, and I have to use 3 second guide exposures for guiding to function. Luckily my mount behaves well, but I can't use it on my harmonic drive mount that does better at .5-1.0 second guide impulses. . I wonder why ZWO doesn't allow us to set the Offset in the ASIAIR?
Yep, 3nm filters will be too much for the guide sensor, forcing long guide exposures. I've seen that the WD20 seems to be fine with those longish exposures, but still..
As for the Offset, they set a value high enough that it's never going to be an issue, although it does sacrifice a tiny bit of dynamic range...
I just received my 2600MC AIR & I’m confused about selecting the proper power out for my dew heater & mount. I want to select a lower power (say 40%) for the dew heater. How do I know that I’m selecting the right one? And, even though everything is working properly, I don’t see any output voltage for the mount. Any thoughts?
Can I use all the functions with the camera and a skywatcher eq6-r pro as shown in the videos with the zwo mount
Yes it should support the EQ6R Pro
I am likely missing something in the how to use this new camera. Is it possible to use it with the laptop? or is it limited to the ipad and iphone. Second, does it do live stacking?
Looks like a great product. But my greatest concern will be if one part goes bad then technically 3 parts will have to be shipped for service.
And wait…it doesn’t come in a carry pouch?!
Yep, that's definitely a risk - and yes, no carry pouch for this one!
How will this work if, due to filtering, the guide stars do not appear on the guiding chip or only appear weakly?
You'd have too many cables with an AM5N! The ASI2600MC Air has Bluetooth,
so you can use Bluetooth to control the mount.
Yay, one less cable!
Can you use dewheating cables on the camera or must you use it separtley?
I remember laughing at this when it was first announced, but now I'm really seeing the appeal. I'm constantly packing 40-ish items into a hiking backpack every time I go out to image, and dropping two devices and three cords really would be a great advantage for my use case. If I do decide to upgrade from my asi533mc Pro, this will definitely be on my radar. The main limitation for me would be that restriction for narrowband filters, as I am using a strainwave mount and I'd feel iffy about short guide exposures on the Optolong l-ultimate I've had my eye on.
It's also pretty good at avoiding forgetting a piece of equipment before driving to a dark zone!
My only concern would be the reliability of the Air component of the camera system. I'm on my second ASI AIR Plus because the first one bricked. What is the alternative?
Interesting! The Mini for me has been very stable (and uses a completely different processor and board than the RPi-based ASIAIR Plus), but it's a good point!
Have you done a video comparing why NINA is more useful to you vs the way ASI Air eco system does it ? For me les steps and less configuration leads to more imaging given the short amount of clear sky time I can get. Still would love to hear your thoughts on this
Addressed it in some live streams but basically:
- have my sequence templates saved, so I can just click the play button to image (far fewer steps than ASIAir, where I have to fiddle with the app quite a bit before I'm imaging)
- auto-copying my images over network, so they're always available on my processing computer
- dithering every x frames is a per template/sequence setting I have in NINA, no risk of forgetting to change it when switching from broadband to narrowband and vice versa (unlike ASIAir, where I have forgotten to switch that setting, leading to huge imaging time loss or inability to drizzle)
- I can set autofocus exposure length per filter in NINA, in ASIAir it's another easy to forget centralized setting (when switching from broadband to narrowband)
- for mono: filter offsets. Allows saving a huge amount of imaging time by looping through filters without having to refocus (it's not available in ASIAir because it only supports overshoot backlash as part of its AF routine and not as part of focuser movements, where it only supports absolute backlash)
- Better handling of multiple targets per night in NINA (image X until Y is above 30 degrees altitude for instance), also saved in my templates
Overall, for me NINA is just faster, lazier, and less error-prone (because I have set it up properly :) )! The ASIAir is slower and more cumbersome, but far, far easier to do the initial setup!
Hello again, I am running into some interesting problems. One, after taking images for about 30 minutes the screen goes dark and does not show any more images!! Two, If I focus the 2600 vamera the guider gets off focus, if I focus the guider, the main camera goes out of focus!! so, i can not guide!!
My concern would be of failure in one part. Can you get access to the asiair for when upgrades fail and you need to reset?
Hi Cuiv! I'm wondering if the following setup is viable - ZWO ASI2600MC Air on a RASA/Hyperstar, wirelessly connected to an AM3/5. I haven't seen this mentioned in the cloudy nights or any of the reviews so far.
p.s. I realized a power cable is still required... Surely someone could fix up a puck shaped power bank directly connected to the back of the ASI2600MC Air?
Ah, the old phrase of 'don't put all your eggs in one basket' comes to mind. No one at ZWO thought, I know... lets not put the ASI Air into a camera... lets put it in the mount! Or better yet, let's not integrate everything into one system :DD. Seriously the actual market for this is incredibly tiny, you really are better off getting the Air and 2600 separately as you say. I do like ZWO's demonstration of what they *can* do, but sometimes I feel like it should stay in the demo side of things lol. I definitely don't like their direction as a company and haven't for quite a few years now, but we have more competition than ever, so it could be worse ... :D
Completely understand! Actually I thought the same about the mount but I really wouldn't like a mount that depends on an internal ASIAIR!
At the same time there's a lot of people I talk to who are really considering this camera as they like the AIO approach! Maybe the market is larger than we think?
You mean like Apple gear 🙄
I agree completely. I have so much ZWO equipment, including the duo and air. But I personally think putting all of this equipment into one unit is destined to be obsolete quickly. How many versions of the air have there already been? If one part of the system fails, the rest of it becomes an expensive doorstop, or you will need to send it back to ZWO for repairs. When next year ZWO comes out with another version of the air, this unit will start to look like a questionable purchase. Again, I love ZWO equipment. I just don't understand why ZWO is wasting resources making a unit like this when there is so much demand for a rotator. But that is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Well let's be honest it started as an April fools joke and it is just that 😂