Excellent comparison! Like all telescopes, each has its positive and negative aspects, but both the Seestar S50 and Dwarf 3 are amazing pieces of technology. What a wonderful time we live in!
Both devices have different advantages and disadvantages. I ordered a Dwarf 3, but a Seestar 70 or 80 with a newer better sensor with more resolution would be the burner! I would instantly order it! Clear skies are so rare that it is always a good idea to take pictures with several devices simultaniously. Clear skies!
Thanks for the comparison. I already have an S50 and it seems to have the edge in terms of resolution (arc seconds per pixel) but obviously a smaller field of view. There are not a huge number of objects that require a wider field of view, and the forthcoming mosaic mode looks like it will address that, albeit requiring longer exposure time. I’ve been delighted with the results I’ve got so far. As you say, it is early days for smart telescopes in general and it will be most interesting to see how things develop - the competition is bound to continue to drive further improvements!
Beautiful, you see the time you spent on it when you twist the pictures to match them, great job! One point you didn't mention - because you couldn't know: S50 is available, Dwarf 3 has a waiting time of 4 months at the moment ... and children like me (I am 55 ...) just have a hard time waiting 😉!
Great video. For me the most annoying aspect of my S50 is the field rotation on an already tight field of view. It is very obvious very quickly and has to be cropped out. EQ mode on the Dwarf solves that issue. You can mount the S50 to go EQ but that's not for the inexperienced. Neither is really excellent for solar, lunar or planetary, they just don't have the FL. I'd liked to have seen you run the same exposure times for each scope and run identical processing on the DSOs.
I have a lot of money in multiple rigs currently. I’ve seen the Seestar in action and tbh I thought it was very impressive for what it cost. If your just testing the waters ..showing the kids etc these scopes are a great way to start out without spending 20k 😀
Yes, they are excellent for outreach, offering people a view of the universe that goes beyond what can be seen with the naked eye or through a traditional telescope with an eyepiece. Clear skies!
Simple: on sun/moon the Seestar wins due to having 50mm aperture vs 35mm. Aperture is always king for details. With longer exposure and EQ mode the D3 catches up easily to the Seestar's larger aperture, usually 10 second exposure and high rejected frame count with lower resolution on deepsky nebulas. Very impressive Heart nebula image with the Dwarf 3. Of course Seestar is coming out with the S30, still waiting to see what that offers, or maybe a new Seestar S50-2 that also addresses existing issues. Exciting times for the smart telescope astronomers.
S30 new sensor more saturation wider field of range but 150 focal 30 mm lens but wider area. I would of got the s30 but they won't be in my hands till late January or end Feb. Forget it grabbed an s50 for 389.00
Great video! As someone who has only successfully used a tracker twice, this breakdown of auto trackers was invaluable 😊 The Dwarf3 was much better in deep space, but I thought the Seestar did much better on the sun. While the auto-stacking is a timesaver and gave good results, your manual stacking and adjustments were amazing!
Totally agree. As I've always been into deep space and solar so I'll have to buy one of each! LOL I would like to have seen both set to 10s shots for comparison... don't think it's a fair comparison with one at 60s and the other at 10s.
Such test are so common among most telescopes and cameras, and the outcomes are very similar because there are almost no time-limits. What would be interesting to see is how they perform on comet C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan - ATLAS) with comet-tracking.
Great review but the Dwarf 3 being so new, and you covered an early release version, they are still developing and testing a couple key features that are set to be released consecutively starting end of this month. I’d agree with others that each have their niche, but D3 edges out in a couple key categories and the upcoming features will pull it ahead just based on my use of both devices.
Thanks for amazing review. I'll just mention that "M" - is for "Mega", and "m" is for "milli" in SI units system. That's 1'000'000'000 times difference. And amperes sign is "A", not "a". So correct way to write battery's energy capacity is "mAh", not "Mah".
Excellent video. I have a full AP rig and thought that the S50 would be a nice companion scope for easier travel. I ran it in EQ mode and it worked well but the limited FOV was a bit of a drawback, so I sold it off after a few months. I’m really interested in the D3 and may seek to get one, but will likely wait until we see the new S30 coming out and do a comparison.
Thank you for putting these videos together, Wido. They are not only helpful in seeing the differences between the two devices but are very interesting tutorials to help overcome my anxious resistances to the technical learning curves for them. I ordered my D3 in mid September 2024 and was advised that it would be shipped in January, 2025. Winter skies here in Montreal are frequently crystal clear and the density of the freezing air focuses the moon and stars sharply. I would be a little nervous about taking it out in -10C but my Nikon cameras can handle it so I hope the Dwarf 3 will, too. Both telescopes are technological marvels at an affordable cost.
So, the question is for someone wanting to start out in astrophotography do you get a smart telescope which will: minimise learning curve; get results sooner; and give a less frustrating start to the hobby, or do you get a mount that will last you, something like a redcat 51 and a zwo camera but expose yourself to some serious learning and potential early frustration. The way I see it one gives you a taste that you may soon want to move on from but the other comes with a higher risk of failure and desire to give up although the equipment may well serve you longer should you carry on.
Don't take me wrong, 500 is a good chunk of money. But it's a very cheap first step into a hobby - hobbies are generally not cheap but this one is expensive. And if you realized that it's not for you, then that's a 500 well spent.
@@RidwanMarian So the smart scope would be money well spent either way? I’m guessing that if you moved on to bigger rigs you might keep the smart scope as a travel setup.
I think either the S50 or the D3 would be a good way to get your toes wet in the hobby. You can start learning the post-processing right away, and can find out if you will actually enjoy it without a huge outlay. With a bigger, modular rig - sure, you can get higher quality images, but if you never take it out because it's too much of a pain to set up, it's a waste of money.
Both are amazing small telescopes and both have their own pros and cons. I want a Seedwarf with the field of view of the D3, the sharpness of the Seestar, a square fov, a double lens like the Dwarf 3, the gigapixel panorama of the Dwarf 3, the app of the Seestar, and so on. Don’t think it will happen any soon 😂
I wouldn't be so sure it won't come anytime soon. ZWO knows the Dwarf is it's main competition and constantly release new products. The S30 is coming out soon and they will come out with a successor to this before long. I wouldn't be surprised if they release an S70 or S80 sometime either. Not saying tomorrow but even a couple years from now I think smart scopes will have come a very long way.
I know absolutely nothing and am just starting out learning about these devices for point and click astrophotography. But with just the videos I have been watching with comparing the Seestar and D3, it seems like the D3 requires a bit more technical knowledge than the Seestar and the Seestar app appears to be easier to use? Would you say that is accurate. I would love a large field of view (I think that is the term) to be able to see and capture the Milky Way, but I don't know if it's even possible with the D3. But for me, not being a photography type of person to begin with, seems like the Seestar might be a better entry point?
Great videos, i stumbled upon the Dwarf3 Review of yours thanks to the algorithm last night and now need one. Thanks! 💸 By the way, your haircut and that blue/white shirt is as dutch as it gets! 😅
Nice review! Can they also do panorama's? Then the seestrat narrow view can be mitigated. Also can you do landscape astro with the wide angle lens from dwarf? Greetings from Doetinchem
Also from NL (Deventer). I like the Dwarf more due to the wider FOV, but the delivery time is not really appealing. I see people preferring the S50 afer testing both so I want to check what is with that. We had like 1 or 2 clear nights since October so I have time to make a choice until around March.
Very good video. I bought the dwarf 3 a couple of weeks ago and I have to wait for it to arrive at the end of December. It is really quite a challenge to do astrophotography in the Netherlands. I lived in Nijmegen for 4 years and the weather is horrible. Double congratulations for doing astrophotography and for sharing the video. I ask: is it possible to rotate the field of view or is it fixed in both telescopes? Thank you very much. Greetings from Argentina. Javier
Dear Javier, thank you so much for the positive feedback. Nijmegen is a beautiful city, but astrophotography opportunities in Argentina are likely much better. Unfortunately, both telescopes have fixed sensors. It would be great if that changed in future smart scopes. Saludos desde Holanda!
Im from Portugal and apreciate your comment , i have too a dobsonian6 , but the mount and the bortle scale is negative.. so am thinking buy a dwarf3, and do some really exciting photos ;))
Great review! Both scopes are a wonder. I think in absolute terms the image detail is better with the Seestar. But you get much more to work with in terms of FOV and the 8MP files with the Dwarf. For me the EQ mode put the decision over the top and I pre-ordered the Dwarf III for myself. The fact that the Seestar S50 is on sale (and in stock) also made the decision harder. I don't think that in late 2024, you can't go wrong with either.
first steps in computational astrophotography. I think the tech is too young yet for me to take the plunge. Will wait for the next iteration of these models
both look awesome.. the d3 seams a little more techy for a newbie but the seestar software makes it a click and go and your done kind of deal.. shame that it cant capture as much as the d3.. though also a shame they both do not have a way to attach other lenses to them may be harder to do that with the d3.. but the seestar looks like you could easy alter the lens to be able to attach say a wide angle lens etc.. not sure if that would be the best way to go.. i am very new to all this.. as this kind of kit used to be way out of my price range when i was into looking at the stars.. great video.. though would loved to have seen the quality of the day time use of the seestar before you finished the video the dwarf 3 looks awesome and i loved the way it can track items in daytime..
I'm torn, between these and other telescopes. I like these because the photography features are built in. No need to worry about phone mounts or cameras. These are both very cool> Up until earlier today I was set to order the s50 but now I don't know.
Eventually, we will use this technique with our super-duper big rigs. We start the session and don't have to do anything. Life will be easy! Maybe at that time, processing will be done by smart AI processing software. That would be great! ❤
Your videos are extremely helpful. If I understood correctly, that was eye opening what you noted about the S50s smaller 2Mb pixel image sensor not being a factor in the image taken because it has a much larger aperture. As an amateur that would mean I would be fine taking photos with a less expensive 2Mb CCD with my 10” LX200 Classic?
Hi there! Yes, in astrophotography, higher resolution is mainly influenced by the aperture of your telescope. The camera sensor also plays a role-using a camera with more megapixels gives you a larger field of view, which is great for capturing bigger objects in a single shot without needing to create a mosaic. If you're using a 2MP camera with your LX200, the field of view will be quite narrow, which is ideal for capturing planets since they're some of the smallest targets in the night sky.
What am amazing review Wido! Thank you for so much detailed analysis. I was wondering how to get Diffraction Spikes on S50? It's just my personal preference, as I like those star spikes.
Aiaiai, not my favourite...it's a refractor telescope, so the only thing you can do is artificially add them with some kind of post-processing tool or buy a Newtonian telescope with spider vanes 😀.
Hey, I’m looking to get into Astro photography and just viewing so do you know an all in one rig right now? I’m looking at the Seestar and the next star 130 SLT
Good comparison Wido, I don't own a smart telescope as I already have a couple of grab and go set ups based on a Red Cat 51 and a Samyang 135 f2 lens. But if I was to buy one I would go with the Dwarf 3, in fact I might buy one to keep in the car for those times when I find myself under a clear sky, that I didn't expect, for an hour or two.
Is the Dwarf 3 better by daylight? For birds and landscapes? I have heard the seestar can do it too but have not seen one picture ... so I wonder. Can y please test them both in this area too? And have they a modus for star dummies too? So I can point at one star and it tells me its name?😅
s50 is superior in optics, if you notice the arm of the seestar is significant larger scope, like a cell phone camera compared to a DSLR. milkyway shots can be down with your phone,or a DSLR, and also if you don't have neither wait because the second gen is coming
I like D3 over S50 because of wider FOV. But my cheap 90mm Bresser takes better photos of the moon in a single shot and gets Saturn and Jupiter too. Deep sky photos take a bit more work but I'll stick with my telescope for now. As for portability, I can stick my scope and tripod and alt/azi mount in a suitcase if I have too. But yeah, having a travel scope in a handbag would be nice.
Crazy question - looking for something (camera, telescope, whatever) that I can use in flight from a cockpit at 40,000 ft to capture strange lights manuvering I believe are outside our atmosphere. Open to any recommendations. Thanks!
Thanks for the video, for the Sun, I prefer the SeeStar 50 version; I agree also with the Moon, the SeeStar did better. It also looks like the Dwarf takes better photos in the sense you get more stars and not just the core.
I dislike the idea of throwing out the whole scope when a newer model comes out, but I am impressed at the capability for early adopters of this tech. For new or lazy astrophotography, it will be amazing. I will wait 10 years
@alltagswelten2024 Exactly, why have the mindset you have to throw it out like trash? Give it to someone that is interested in space that could possibly start a life passion
Tx for noticing. I'll ask astroshop. It's probably offline because of the long delivery period. Meanwhile, you can order the Dwarf 3 directly via Dwarflab.
I would have loved to see what the Dwarf3 could do without the AI enhancement. The Seestar doesn't seem to use AI enhancement, unless that is the default for Seestar and it automatically just uses AI enhancement? For a complete beginner, would you say that the Seestar app is easier to use? Also seems like the set up polar alignment and calibration is easier with the Seestar.
thx for this good review! edit in pixinsight bring the full potential for old timer astrophotograph who need a telescope for a trip or don't have an observatory. the dwarf 3 will be a good addition to my other reflector and refractor. and wide fields of view is a good option sometimes. Hope that both company and new will bring support and other release on this market. always a good move for inovation , price and new features. 😁
@@sethgardner I saw an ad for the next Seestar somewhere on the net. Can’t remember where. It didn’t mention anything about the scope except that there is a new one coming.
Only turn off for me is the built-in battery.. What if the battery starts to lose charge and there's no way of replacing it?? I just want to replace it myself and not have the extra expense of having to ship it. We all know how ups and fed-ex handle goods, fragile or not! With Framing available in the S50 now, images of M45 can now be captured in its entirety.
The problem with framing the S50 is that a 60 minute recording becomes 20 minutes of usable sub. To take a picture that reveals detail, you need much more time. And then let's not even mention field rotation. And fixing multi-day mosaics is problematic.
Great video. I think you're being very kind to the Dwarf with the moon and sun pictures though. The detail on the Seestar is hell of a lot better. It's obvious in the side by side comparison at 14:22, even without zooming in. The Dwarf is really lacking detail, almost like is has been through a blur filter. What is the pixel count in each of the cropped images? Obviously the Dwarf image has been cropped to appear the same size as the Seestar, so does the 8MP image of the Dwarf become less than 2MP of the Seestar when cropped? Thank you for the comparison. It seems like you really need both in an ideal world.
Dwarf it is. I have absolutely 0 experience with astrophotography, but som limited experience with photography in general. I know photoshop and lightroom well, and it really seems like the dwarf gives you better images to work with as long as you keep in mind to shorten the exposures? Would love to see some short exposure stacked photos from the dwraf, or did i miss something? I guess the APP from seestar would fit me better, but i love steep learningcurves :)
I know nothing. No experience with photography other than an iPhone in night mode. And I think that the D3 looks to have some nice features like that bigger field of view. However, in just the very brief views of the 2 apps along with the setup process, the Seestar looks like it's super beginner oriented whereas the D3 seems to assume a user has at least some type of knowledge of astronomy and/or photography. So maybe D3 is more like Beginner 2.
Seestar needs polar alignment. Will help with longer deep sky imaging. I like the intuitive software operation and ease of use on Seestar. You are not the first to say Seestar produces higher quality images which is nice to hear. If I knew nothing about telescopes and had to chose solely on visual, I do think Seestar would win. The Dwarf name and appearance leans toyish.
Was waiting for this as want 1 but could not find a comparison, now i have to wait again to see what the S30 brings to the table, will it be better than both!!!!
Yes the lack of aperture really hurts it. At 100% resolution after stacking it's decent, but as soon as you zoom in you notice the issue. The Dwarf is not super suitable for these objects due to the magnification factor. More like a gimmick, easy to add to add to the list of features.
Dwarf3 delayed another month here in the uk. now its dec 6 2024. maybe lol. Update, had an email from Dwarflab, it's now Jan 2025. I cancelled and bought an S50
Not gonna lie, I already have a Seestar and was looking for a second smart scope. But looking at those deformed stars from the Dwarf3 has really put me off and I got a second seestar instead for the money. How is nobody mentioning the weird stars on the Dwarf 3?
'KC and the Sunshine Band!' Sorry, I'm a child. Anyway, what the 'UK citizen's normal day' has happened to your poor little S50? Was that the scope that was taken up to the ISS for use on board during its R&D? And then dropped from that great height only to fortunately land in your back garden? Lol. Oh, if only I was able to have so much astronomy equipment just lying around that I can treat them like the long suffering spouse of an abusive & mysogonistic cult follower. I can but dream!?! A great and really informative upload. Standard!
You can take images of the sun every day if you want, it only takes 5 minutes, but it gets a bit 'same-same' after a while. Only when big sunspots arise I do it usually.
At 59 seconds you say that the Dwarf 3 is compatible with a standard “One and a quarter inch screw”. That should be “one quarter inch screw”, about 6mm in diameter (or more technically a ¼-20 screw) (FWIW a “One and a quarter inch screw” would be about 32 mm in diameter 😅😅)
Thanks for the report and I looked at the blog and especially looked at the pictures from PixInsight and the star image is bad, really bad. You can only wish for the EQ mode for the Seestar Sxx because the mosaic mode is already available in the beta. With two sea stars in overlapping mosaic mode, you are definitely the favorite with APP, Siril and PIX, especially since the material seems to be much better.
This type of equipment, which cannot be upgraded, is very limited, and does not accept a Barlow lens or have a cooled camera, is designed for casual observation
Excellent comparison! Like all telescopes, each has its positive and negative aspects, but both the Seestar S50 and Dwarf 3 are amazing pieces of technology. What a wonderful time we live in!
I agree! I love living in the future.
Both devices have different advantages and disadvantages.
I ordered a Dwarf 3, but a Seestar 70 or 80 with a newer better sensor with more resolution would be the burner! I would instantly order it!
Clear skies are so rare that it is always a good idea to take pictures with several devices simultaniously.
Clear skies!
I was so upset they are releasing a smaller version first. Do they not realize how many want a slightly larger scope?
Thanks for the comparison. I already have an S50 and it seems to have the edge in terms of resolution (arc seconds per pixel) but obviously a smaller field of view. There are not a huge number of objects that require a wider field of view, and the forthcoming mosaic mode looks like it will address that, albeit requiring longer exposure time. I’ve been delighted with the results I’ve got so far. As you say, it is early days for smart telescopes in general and it will be most interesting to see how things develop - the competition is bound to continue to drive further improvements!
Beautiful, you see the time you spent on it when you twist the pictures to match them, great job! One point you didn't mention - because you couldn't know: S50 is available, Dwarf 3 has a waiting time of 4 months at the moment ... and children like me (I am 55 ...) just have a hard time waiting 😉!
Telescopes have had their drone moment.
Ordered a Seestar S50.
Great video. For me the most annoying aspect of my S50 is the field rotation on an already tight field of view. It is very obvious very quickly and has to be cropped out. EQ mode on the Dwarf solves that issue. You can mount the S50 to go EQ but that's not for the inexperienced. Neither is really excellent for solar, lunar or planetary, they just don't have the FL. I'd liked to have seen you run the same exposure times for each scope and run identical processing on the DSOs.
I have a lot of money in multiple rigs currently. I’ve seen the Seestar in action and tbh I thought it was very impressive for what it cost.
If your just testing the waters ..showing the kids etc these scopes are a great way to start out without spending 20k 😀
Yes, they are excellent for outreach, offering people a view of the universe that goes beyond what can be seen with the naked eye or through a traditional telescope with an eyepiece. Clear skies!
How did you make this video exactly when I needed it that's crazy 😭😭😭
Don't worry, the delivery time for the Dwarf3 is january 2025, if you order now. 😜Time to watch plenty of videos!
Same here. I was just thinking of this comparison for the past few days, and boom I see this video suggested!
Seriously I'm just past the moon in the video but I'm up in the air between the two
Simple: on sun/moon the Seestar wins due to having 50mm aperture vs 35mm. Aperture is always king for details.
With longer exposure and EQ mode the D3 catches up easily to the Seestar's larger aperture, usually 10 second exposure and high rejected frame count with lower resolution on deepsky nebulas.
Very impressive Heart nebula image with the Dwarf 3.
Of course Seestar is coming out with the S30, still waiting to see what that offers, or maybe a new Seestar S50-2 that also addresses existing issues. Exciting times for the smart telescope astronomers.
A FB comment from Seestar acknowledged they are creating a larger scope but will need much more time.
S30 new sensor more saturation wider field of range but 150 focal 30 mm lens but wider area. I would of got the s30 but they won't be in my hands till late January or end Feb. Forget it grabbed an s50 for 389.00
Great video! As someone who has only successfully used a tracker twice, this breakdown of auto trackers was invaluable 😊
The Dwarf3 was much better in deep space, but I thought the Seestar did much better on the sun. While the auto-stacking is a timesaver and gave good results, your manual stacking and adjustments were amazing!
Totally agree. As I've always been into deep space and solar so I'll have to buy one of each! LOL I would like to have seen both set to 10s shots for comparison... don't think it's a fair comparison with one at 60s and the other at 10s.
Awesome work and details you did! I was sold on Seestar until you showed EQ and wider view on Dwarf. Very hard to choose, but i will get the Dwarf 3
Such test are so common among most telescopes and cameras, and the outcomes are very similar because there are almost no time-limits. What would be interesting to see is how they perform on comet C/2023 A3 (Tsuchinshan - ATLAS) with comet-tracking.
Great review but the Dwarf 3 being so new, and you covered an early release version, they are still developing and testing a couple key features that are set to be released consecutively starting end of this month. I’d agree with others that each have their niche, but D3 edges out in a couple key categories and the upcoming features will pull it ahead just based on my use of both devices.
Thanks for amazing review.
I'll just mention that "M" - is for "Mega", and "m" is for "milli" in SI units system. That's 1'000'000'000 times difference. And amperes sign is "A", not "a". So correct way to write battery's energy capacity is "mAh", not "Mah".
Excellent video. I have a full AP rig and thought that the S50 would be a nice companion scope for easier travel. I ran it in EQ mode and it worked well but the limited FOV was a bit of a drawback, so I sold it off after a few months. I’m really interested in the D3 and may seek to get one, but will likely wait until we see the new S30 coming out and do a comparison.
Thank you for putting these videos together, Wido. They are not only helpful in seeing the differences between the two devices but are very interesting tutorials to help overcome my anxious resistances to the technical learning curves for them. I ordered my D3 in mid September 2024 and was advised that it would be shipped in January, 2025. Winter skies here in Montreal are frequently crystal clear and the density of the freezing air focuses the moon and stars sharply. I would be a little nervous about taking it out in -10C but my Nikon cameras can handle it so I hope the Dwarf 3 will, too. Both telescopes are technological marvels at an affordable cost.
So, the question is for someone wanting to start out in astrophotography do you get a smart telescope which will: minimise learning curve; get results sooner; and give a less frustrating start to the hobby, or do you get a mount that will last you, something like a redcat 51 and a zwo camera but expose yourself to some serious learning and potential early frustration.
The way I see it one gives you a taste that you may soon want to move on from but the other comes with a higher risk of failure and desire to give up although the equipment may well serve you longer should you carry on.
Don't take me wrong, 500 is a good chunk of money. But it's a very cheap first step into a hobby - hobbies are generally not cheap but this one is expensive.
And if you realized that it's not for you, then that's a 500 well spent.
@@RidwanMarian So the smart scope would be money well spent either way? I’m guessing that if you moved on to bigger rigs you might keep the smart scope as a travel setup.
I think either the S50 or the D3 would be a good way to get your toes wet in the hobby. You can start learning the post-processing right away, and can find out if you will actually enjoy it without a huge outlay. With a bigger, modular rig - sure, you can get higher quality images, but if you never take it out because it's too much of a pain to set up, it's a waste of money.
21:54 This is solved partially with the newly released mosaic mode on the SeeStar.
Both are amazing small telescopes and both have their own pros and cons. I want a Seedwarf with the field of view of the D3, the sharpness of the Seestar, a square fov, a double lens like the Dwarf 3, the gigapixel panorama of the Dwarf 3, the app of the Seestar, and so on. Don’t think it will happen any soon 😂
I wouldn't be so sure it won't come anytime soon. ZWO knows the Dwarf is it's main competition and constantly release new products. The S30 is coming out soon and they will come out with a successor to this before long. I wouldn't be surprised if they release an S70 or S80 sometime either. Not saying tomorrow but even a couple years from now I think smart scopes will have come a very long way.
And the quick set-up of the Seestar!
I know absolutely nothing and am just starting out learning about these devices for point and click astrophotography. But with just the videos I have been watching with comparing the Seestar and D3, it seems like the D3 requires a bit more technical knowledge than the Seestar and the Seestar app appears to be easier to use? Would you say that is accurate. I would love a large field of view (I think that is the term) to be able to see and capture the Milky Way, but I don't know if it's even possible with the D3. But for me, not being a photography type of person to begin with, seems like the Seestar might be a better entry point?
Great videos, i stumbled upon the Dwarf3 Review of yours thanks to the algorithm last night and now need one. Thanks! 💸
By the way, your haircut and that blue/white shirt is as dutch as it gets! 😅
Thank you! Great video but please use a sturdier tripod for the DWARF 3. One can see how wobbly it is and makes the DWARF 3 shake in the wind.
How are they operate in cold temperature?
Hi Great video. Please could you tell me how much storage I would need on iPhone to download a stacked photo? Thanks
Nice review! Can they also do panorama's? Then the seestrat narrow view can be mitigated. Also can you do landscape astro with the wide angle lens from dwarf? Greetings from Doetinchem
I would like to see a comparison between the Dwarf 3 and S50 where the S50 images are scaled up to 4K to match the Dwarf 3 resolution.
Also from NL (Deventer). I like the Dwarf more due to the wider FOV, but the delivery time is not really appealing. I see people preferring the S50 afer testing both so I want to check what is with that. We had like 1 or 2 clear nights since October so I have time to make a choice until around March.
Very good video. I bought the dwarf 3 a couple of weeks ago and I have to wait for it to arrive at the end of December. It is really quite a challenge to do astrophotography in the Netherlands. I lived in Nijmegen for 4 years and the weather is horrible. Double congratulations for doing astrophotography and for sharing the video. I ask: is it possible to rotate the field of view or is it fixed in both telescopes? Thank you very much. Greetings from Argentina. Javier
Dear Javier, thank you so much for the positive feedback. Nijmegen is a beautiful city, but astrophotography opportunities in Argentina are likely much better. Unfortunately, both telescopes have fixed sensors. It would be great if that changed in future smart scopes. Saludos desde Holanda!
Im from Portugal and apreciate your comment , i have too a dobsonian6 , but the mount and the bortle scale is negative.. so am thinking buy a dwarf3, and do some really exciting photos ;))
Great review! Both scopes are a wonder. I think in absolute terms the image detail is better with the Seestar. But you get much more to work with in terms of FOV and the 8MP files with the Dwarf. For me the EQ mode put the decision over the top and I pre-ordered the Dwarf III for myself. The fact that the Seestar S50 is on sale (and in stock) also made the decision harder. I don't think that in late 2024, you can't go wrong with either.
Thanks Wido! What an excellent breakdown of these two awesome scopes.
What about capturing pictures of mars? How does these work in areas that have a good amount of light pollution?
Thank you so much for your video, complete and very interesting. It helps me to decide what to buy and begin in astrophotography!
GREAT video again! Thank you for all your good work and info Wido
Is there are a cover/bag for the S50? That way we dont have to take it in and out of the travel box.
Much appreciated for your time effort and skill.
I appreciate that!
I have the Dwarf 3 on order. But a long waiting list, maybe I will get it this year. Hope so. Thanks for the video.
first steps in computational astrophotography. I think the tech is too young yet for me to take the plunge. Will wait for the next iteration of these models
The tripod used for the dwarf was very shaky during the experiment
both look awesome.. the d3 seams a little more techy for a newbie but the seestar software makes it a click and go and your done kind of deal.. shame that it cant capture as much as the d3.. though also a shame they both do not have a way to attach other lenses to them may be harder to do that with the d3.. but the seestar looks like you could easy alter the lens to be able to attach say a wide angle lens etc.. not sure if that would be the best way to go.. i am very new to all this.. as this kind of kit used to be way out of my price range when i was into looking at the stars.. great video.. though would loved to have seen the quality of the day time use of the seestar before you finished the video the dwarf 3 looks awesome and i loved the way it can track items in daytime..
so in a nutshell, which is better as of now? I plan to buy one immediately (dwarf3 has 18 week lead time though)
I'm in the same position
I'm not sure what to do. S30 s50 or dwarf3
why are there zero reviews on the vespera pro?
I'm torn, between these and other telescopes. I like these because the photography features are built in. No need to worry about phone mounts or cameras. These are both very cool> Up until earlier today I was set to order the s50 but now I don't know.
Dwarf has hard block on turning (big fault} , his about Seestar?
Would the Dwarf 3 have better pictures if you also calibrated on Darks ? Just curious ... (as almost every review I've seen skips that step ...)
Really well done.
Eventually, we will use this technique with our super-duper big rigs. We start the session and don't have to do anything. Life will be easy! Maybe at that time, processing will be done by smart AI processing software. That would be great! ❤
Your videos are extremely helpful. If I understood correctly, that was eye opening what you noted about the S50s smaller 2Mb pixel image sensor not being a factor in the image taken because it has a much larger aperture. As an amateur that would mean I would be fine taking photos with a less expensive 2Mb CCD with my 10” LX200 Classic?
Hi there! Yes, in astrophotography, higher resolution is mainly influenced by the aperture of your telescope. The camera sensor also plays a role-using a camera with more megapixels gives you a larger field of view, which is great for capturing bigger objects in a single shot without needing to create a mosaic. If you're using a 2MP camera with your LX200, the field of view will be quite narrow, which is ideal for capturing planets since they're some of the smallest targets in the night sky.
What am amazing review Wido! Thank you for so much detailed analysis. I was wondering how to get Diffraction Spikes on S50? It's just my personal preference, as I like those star spikes.
Aiaiai, not my favourite...it's a refractor telescope, so the only thing you can do is artificially add them with some kind of post-processing tool or buy a Newtonian telescope with spider vanes 😀.
Hey, I’m looking to get into Astro photography and just viewing so do you know an all in one rig right now? I’m looking at the Seestar and the next star 130 SLT
The SeeStar 30 is coming out on November 1st.
Thank you very much for this nice video. It helps me a lot, thanks again.
Good comparison Wido, I don't own a smart telescope as I already have a couple of grab and go set ups based on a Red Cat 51 and a Samyang 135 f2 lens. But if I was to buy one I would go with the Dwarf 3, in fact I might buy one to keep in the car for those times when I find myself under a clear sky, that I didn't expect, for an hour or two.
Is the Dwarf 3 better by daylight? For birds and landscapes? I have heard the seestar can do it too but have not seen one picture ... so I wonder. Can y please test them both in this area too? And have they a modus for star dummies too? So I can point at one star and it tells me its name?😅
Dawrf 3 can take milk way pic..wile s50 can't dawrf 3 also have EQ mode
s50 is superior in optics, if you notice the arm of the seestar is significant larger scope, like a cell phone camera compared to a DSLR. milkyway shots can be down with your phone,or a DSLR, and also if you don't have neither wait because the second gen is coming
Thanks Wido another great video from you.
I like D3 over S50 because of wider FOV. But my cheap 90mm Bresser takes better photos of the moon in a single shot and gets Saturn and Jupiter too. Deep sky photos take a bit more work but I'll stick with my telescope for now. As for portability, I can stick my scope and tripod and alt/azi mount in a suitcase if I have too. But yeah, having a travel scope in a handbag would be nice.
Can it use your phone wifi hotspot?
You connect to it via a WiFi signal that is broadcast directly by the telescope.
The dwarf just added a ufo mode 🛸 👽
Have you used it? I want to buy it so I can get images of uap
Crazy question - looking for something (camera, telescope, whatever) that I can use in flight from a cockpit at 40,000 ft to capture strange lights manuvering I believe are outside our atmosphere. Open to any recommendations. Thanks!
Canon G9 works for me. Photos only, not video. Don’t know what they are. We call them ‘Dancing Lights’ - openly discussed on ATC frequencies
Thanks for the video, for the Sun, I prefer the SeeStar 50 version; I agree also with the Moon, the SeeStar did better. It also looks like the Dwarf takes better photos in the sense you get more stars and not just the core.
I dislike the idea of throwing out the whole scope when a newer model comes out, but I am impressed at the capability for early adopters of this tech. For new or lazy astrophotography, it will be amazing. I will wait 10 years
Well, don't you know a child who needs a birthday gift?
@alltagswelten2024 Exactly, why have the mindset you have to throw it out like trash? Give it to someone that is interested in space that could possibly start a life passion
Great video! Way more informative than the Kawasaki geek. Peace!
The link to the EU website for the Dwarf III redirects you to the Dwarf II, has the Dwarf III already been removed from the Astroshop website?
Tx for noticing. I'll ask astroshop. It's probably offline because of the long delivery period. Meanwhile, you can order the Dwarf 3 directly via Dwarflab.
I would have loved to see what the Dwarf3 could do without the AI enhancement. The Seestar doesn't seem to use AI enhancement, unless that is the default for Seestar and it automatically just uses AI enhancement?
For a complete beginner, would you say that the Seestar app is easier to use? Also seems like the set up polar alignment and calibration is easier with the Seestar.
Agreed. The setup seemed daunting on the Dwarf 3, but the deep sky results were so much better than on the Seestar
@@montanalife3530 Ordered the Dwarf3 tonight. Now I just have to wait and wait and wait for it to ship.
Did you see the spider in minute 7:28 which started to build its web on your new DWARF3 telescope? 😛
Of course with the new mosaic mode the Seestar can now capture more of the heart nebula and Andromeda. Time to update the video!
I hope Seestar software update adds the EQ mode in the near future. Without it, it is artificially limited in its performance
And waiting for the Seestar S30 review….lol
what program are you using to stack the images? I cant seem to catch the full name with your accent - sorry. I'm very interested!
thx for this good review! edit in pixinsight bring the full potential for old timer astrophotograph who need a telescope for a trip or don't have an observatory. the dwarf 3 will be a good addition to my other reflector and refractor. and wide fields of view is a good option sometimes. Hope that both company and new will bring support and other release on this market. always a good move for inovation , price and new features. 😁
Wonderful and informative video!
Thanks so much 🙏!
What features are still upcoming for the Dwarf 3?
Great review!
But with the new app/firmware update the Dwarf2 is still good enough for me. Just wait and see how smart scopes evolve…..
so which one should I buy?
Wait for the new Seestar coming out this year and go from there.
@@KingepticonIs it confirmed a better seestar is coming out this year?
@@sethgardner I saw an ad for the next Seestar somewhere on the net. Can’t remember where. It didn’t mention anything about the scope except that there is a new one coming.
You guys aren’t telling me one thing properly. Do they require internet or can run offline.
They can run offline
I think you need glasses if you think sun and moon pictures are "just slightly" different!
I want the D3 and the S30 now.
Only turn off for me is the built-in battery.. What if the battery starts to lose charge and there's no way of replacing it?? I just want to replace it myself and not have the extra expense of having to ship it. We all know how ups and fed-ex handle goods, fragile or not! With Framing available in the S50 now, images of M45 can now be captured in its entirety.
The problem with framing the S50 is that a 60 minute recording becomes 20 minutes of usable sub. To take a picture that reveals detail, you need much more time. And then let's not even mention field rotation. And fixing multi-day mosaics is problematic.
This has confused me more dwarf3 or s50??? Help
I am buying one or the other. I had decided the dwarf for wider range but the s50 update has rocked me
Thanks for the perfect joyful comprasion
Great video. I think you're being very kind to the Dwarf with the moon and sun pictures though. The detail on the Seestar is hell of a lot better. It's obvious in the side by side comparison at 14:22, even without zooming in. The Dwarf is really lacking detail, almost like is has been through a blur filter. What is the pixel count in each of the cropped images? Obviously the Dwarf image has been cropped to appear the same size as the Seestar, so does the 8MP image of the Dwarf become less than 2MP of the Seestar when cropped? Thank you for the comparison. It seems like you really need both in an ideal world.
I prolly would make 2 sessions of nebula - one with short and one with longer exposure and combine them.
Dwarf it is. I have absolutely 0 experience with astrophotography, but som limited experience with photography in general. I know photoshop and lightroom well, and it really seems like the dwarf gives you better images to work with as long as you keep in mind to shorten the exposures?
Would love to see some short exposure stacked photos from the dwraf, or did i miss something?
I guess the APP from seestar would fit me better, but i love steep learningcurves :)
I know nothing. No experience with photography other than an iPhone in night mode. And I think that the D3 looks to have some nice features like that bigger field of view. However, in just the very brief views of the 2 apps along with the setup process, the Seestar looks like it's super beginner oriented whereas the D3 seems to assume a user has at least some type of knowledge of astronomy and/or photography. So maybe D3 is more like Beginner 2.
Seestar needs polar alignment. Will help with longer deep sky imaging. I like the intuitive software operation and ease of use on Seestar. You are not the first to say Seestar produces higher quality images which is nice to hear. If I knew nothing about telescopes and had to chose solely on visual, I do think Seestar would win. The Dwarf name and appearance leans toyish.
Quite a lot Seestar customers asked Zwo for the EQ feature in their forum. Several times. They refused.
Thank you.
Was waiting for this as want 1 but could not find a comparison, now i have to wait again to see what the S30 brings to the table, will it be better than both!!!!
Has anyone tried tracking moving objects like rocket launches?
For a completely beginner, dwarf 3 eq mode seems too difficult to use
I feel that the Dwarf 3 was quite soft in the sun and moon photos. Rather disappointing.
I thought so too.
Was thinking it may have had to do with seeing conditions, but in that case the Seestar would have had to deal with that as well.
Yes the lack of aperture really hurts it. At 100% resolution after stacking it's decent, but as soon as you zoom in you notice the issue. The Dwarf is not super suitable for these objects due to the magnification factor. More like a gimmick, easy to add to add to the list of features.
Dwarf3 delayed another month here in the uk. now its dec 6 2024. maybe lol.
Update, had an email from Dwarflab, it's now Jan 2025.
I cancelled and bought an S50
I notice the D3 standard stacking is noiser than Seestar
1 and a quarter inch screw ?? It uses a 1/4 20 screw on the mount. I'm glad that I opted for the Seestar.
Haha. I wondered about that too.
New need unlocked
Not gonna lie, I already have a Seestar and was looking for a second smart scope. But looking at those deformed stars from the Dwarf3 has really put me off and I got a second seestar instead for the money. How is nobody mentioning the weird stars on the Dwarf 3?
'KC and the Sunshine Band!' Sorry, I'm a child. Anyway, what the 'UK citizen's normal day' has happened to your poor little S50? Was that the scope that was taken up to the ISS for use on board during its R&D? And then dropped from that great height only to fortunately land in your back garden? Lol. Oh, if only I was able to have so much astronomy equipment just lying around that I can treat them like the long suffering spouse of an abusive & mysogonistic cult follower. I can but dream!?! A great and really informative upload. Standard!
Imagine what Galileo would think of all this,man,incedible you can spend 500 quid and get a prestacked picture of andromeda
He would likely find ways to improve it - that's what he did with telescopes in his day
Sd50 still the king. Pics are better than dwarf. Much clear. Shorter exposures are better sometimes.
Mosaic mode comes to s50
How ofter will you take a photo of the sun and moon anyway? Both arent planetary scopes. So the Dwarf 3 will be much more useful.
You can take images of the sun every day if you want, it only takes 5 minutes, but it gets a bit 'same-same' after a while. Only when big sunspots arise I do it usually.
See star S50 out does the Dwarf 3 by a mile
I love the video, very informative. After watching I like the look of the dwarf 3. Would that one be better for planets too?
At 59 seconds you say that the Dwarf 3 is compatible with a standard “One and a quarter inch screw”.
That should be “one quarter inch screw”, about 6mm in diameter (or more technically a ¼-20 screw)
(FWIW a “One and a quarter inch screw” would be about 32 mm in diameter 😅😅)
Thanks for the report and I looked at the blog and especially looked at the pictures from PixInsight and the star image is bad, really bad.
You can only wish for the EQ mode for the Seestar Sxx because the mosaic mode is already available in the beta. With two sea stars in overlapping mosaic mode, you are definitely the favorite with APP, Siril and PIX, especially since the material seems to be much better.
This type of equipment, which cannot be upgraded, is very limited, and does not accept a Barlow lens or have a cooled camera, is designed for casual observation