The past, current state & future of JavaScript frameworks
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- JavaScript has come a long way! It's a crucial language for modern web development, especially for frontend web development.
Over all those years, we've seen many JavaScript language features, libraries and frameworks - some stuck around, some didn't.
Are we now in the last phase of JavaScript framework evolution?
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I dont know if this is going to be read but ever since I started my last year in computer science, right before graduating, I jumped into self-teaching because I felt school wasnt teaching me enough. I went on Udemy and found Max. Finally I actually understood something about web dev, front-back and full stack, all the theory I learnt really put into practice. Eventually I landed a job in a Vue/Nuxt based company this late summer. Thanks a lot Max
This is inspiring. Congrats on your progress.
Before jQuery, there was Prototype and Scriptaculous. I'm old and lived through the entire JavaScript evolution.
and coffescript before es6 .
@@nikoszervo And mootools.
Hey hey hey you're not alone guys. I lived through all of that too 😂🤦😂
I might be wrong, Moo tools as well right? Im a 2017 developer, hearing these ancient technologies sounds like medieval shit
And Dojo Toolkit
I feel very safe when i hear Max’s opinions
Max isn’t just a smart , kind and expert man
Max is a very logical man
Thank you for everything max ❤️🙏🏻
Wish you the best ❤️🙏🏻
true, I heard about this opinion that it all went backwards by using more backend, but now I understand that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing.
I can't believe, that svelte and sveltekit was missed :(
Fun for side projects and independent devs. Not really widely used in enterprise or big companies from what I find
@@kimbapslayer1995 Let's change that. Rebel against the managers that keep using React for no reason
@@kimbapslayer1995 ok, but from this perspective solid shouldn't be mentioned as well. Pretty sure analog also don't used widely
Also it good to mention monorepos, e.g. turborepo and nx. Nx could be be very helpful for react, it have great generating tool
Because he doesn't sell those courses of Sveltekit
What about svelte and sveltekit ?
@Academind Hi Max! Investing in your courses has been one of the best decisions I've made to date. One thing I would like to congratulate you on, is the quality of your English and how you have progressed in articulating yourself over the years. I would argue that you are effectively a native speaker now. That in itself is a superb achievement. 👏
No mention of Svelte ? That's the only tech i'd like to use out of Angular.
personally I like svelte. React dyed for me ages ago... its just layers on top of layers to make one thing work right.
Java developer here. I am comfortable with C/C++/C#/Java. But when I look at JavaScript, I feel like someone was drunk when they came up with JavaScript. I can not wrap around myself with JavaScript. I am not trying to be little JavaScript developers. It is just the way I feel.
With so much efforts invested in JavaScript, why can't the browser lords just agree to use strong type and OOP C++/Java/C# to drive everything in browsers. You don't have to stay with a scripting language like JavaScript forever. So much energy is piling up JavaScript ... so much ...
If you prefer C#, you may consider Blazor, which make the SPA development much easier for the developers who familiar .NET tech stack.
They are using Typescript
I’m just going to add to the chorus of people who noticed Svelte was conspicuously absent. No, you can’t list all frameworks, but it’s hugely popular and very much fits the next step in the evolutionary progression you listed.
Actually there are only six meta frameworks out there~ Sveltekit, Next, Nuxt, Remix, SolidStart, QwikCity and Sveltekit is missing, it is quite interesting that Max ignore it 😅😅😅
"hugely popular" - in the YT tutorial world, I guess
I would say the next evolution is compiling and getting rid of virtual DOM as Solid and Svelte do.
Can you please explain compiling. How does Svelte and Solid update the Dom without a virtual DOM?
I'm shocked you managed this video without saying Typescript at least once 😮
Not a single word of Svelte in this overview ? Astonishing. I'm wondering if it's not part of a contract with Meta (and related to your React book) because it looks very much intentional. I think it is crazy to not even have a word about Svelte and Sveltekit, specially after StateOfJS2022 which clearly showed that Svelte is on top and growing.
bruh moment, get out with these conspiracy theories
@@YuriG03042 Anybody can give his opinion, it's why comments exist; If you don't like a comment, downvote it, if you don't agree and have arguments you want to share, you are free as well, but telling people to not say what they think because you don't think like them doesn't seem very smart.
Of course what I say in the video also applies to / includes Svelte. My goal was not to drop as many framework names as possible but to share my view on the overall landscape - that of course includes ALL frameworks
Agreed. Svelte was conspicuously absent, given it’s popularity and the fact that it’s already implementing something much closer to the envisioned “next step”…I actually thought the whole video was setting up to highlight it at the end.
very suspicious indeed
I was there since HTML 1.0 and I still got IE scar to prove it. I feel web has finally stabilized and I don’t expect another revolutionary to happen anytime soon. My guess is that browser will simply be a streaming software. We no longer need to ensure browser compatibility and can use much more efficient tool than HTML,css, JS.
I supose Svelte and Sveltekit are missing from the list because they are so good that this is the future?
It’s not a list. The goal was not to squeeze as many names as possible into the video. It’s a video with some general thoughts about the landscape - which obviously includes svelte
@@academind Difficult to understand you mentions Solid and not SvelteKit.
@@academind I understand that video format is not a list, but this word is quite useful when you want to emphasize that something is missing.
Otherwise, your content is great 😉👍
You forgot to mention Svelte and SvelteKit, 2nd most loved JS framework.
The video was not about squeezing as many framework names as possible into it but to share some general thoughts on the overall landscape - that obviously includes svelte
yeah its most loved but not most used! I see frequently Svlete users pop up in the chat and reminding everyone to use Svelte but until its secure a job opportunity like Angular or React most people won't care imo
There are only seven meta frameworks out there~ Sveltekit, Next, Nuxt, Angular Unuversal, Remix, SolidStart, QwickCity, and Sveltekit is missing... The No.1 framework is not getting attention from Max, very interesting 😅
@@maskman4821 that's not even close to naming all the meta-frameworks. And with tools like vite-plugin-ssr, you could write your own fairly easily.
If someone has love for another framework/meta-framework, by all means, give it a shoutout, but no reason to criticise this excellent video because something else didn't get a mention (not directed at you on particular)
You’re missing out the « back to basics » movement started by HTMX. A JS library write less JS by extending HTML.
It’s really taking off on the Django world as it brings back django as a proper fullstack framework.
odd you didn't mention Svelte and Sveltekit
Svelte out of beta not even for 2 months! why compare it to a Frameworks like React and Angular which is in the game for around 10 years. can Svelte stay same for the next 10 years without breaking anything? if then, it will be outdated, or if they introduce new features or architecture then it will break things and the Developer Experience aspect will be gone!
@@nivethan_me Svelte is 3 years old.
@@SilvestreVivo read my comments again, it doesn't matter when it started, its just 2 month old
@@nivethan_me svelte is 3 years old.
@@nivethan_me 🤦♂
I personally prefer Net Core , view components and ajax. Strange combo, but gets the job done nicely imho with easy structure/models and api. But again I am weird ....
Thanks a lot Max for your amazing courses and I am glad to have purchased most of them. You are doing a commendable job by creating content based on lastest technologies in web development. I enjoyed your latest React course update and indeed it's the best.
Can you please also update your CSS course wherein you explain concepts with demo projects similar to your React course?
Thanks again and keep up the good work!
The jump to the angularjs stage was absolutely giant. Suddenly the UI had its own build tools, package management, etc. You could no longer just drop `app.js` into a lib folder.
@@kishirisu1268 React is compiled. If you don't believe me, ask an actual engineer.
We started with backend rendered pages and now more than a decade later we're on the same point again. We should stop following big tech decisions and start being real with the problems we have, not them.
Really enjoying learning Remix JS at the moment. One of the reasons is that it sticks very closely to standard web APIs so you're also learning stuff which is common and will always be of benefit, like request and response objects etc.
I have been building apps with meta frameworks such as Sveltekit, Next, Nuxt these days, I havent tried SolidStart, QwikCity and Remix yet, but I found out Sveltekit provides the best DX and overall the best SSR, with Next we cant write client side javascript in server component, but with Sveltekit we dont have such issue because different architecture, Nuxt is cool too but I personally think Sveltekit is the best meta framework and it is a master piece from Rich Harris which is a reality you have to face, just give it a try and you will definitely fall in love with Sveltekit, the no.1 meta framework 💪💪💪
I tried nextjs nuxt3 sveltekit and solidstart and i really like sveltekit.
The DX, ssr and reactivity is amazing.
I think solidstart is very promising but there’s alot of work to do for the DX.
You should try it out if you like react. It doesn’t use a virtual dom. Instead you subscribe to certain states.
the actually reality facing part is you have much better chance of getting a job with React or Angular than Sveltekit,
a new framework can do lots of things without thinking about breaking changes(compatibility) but React, Angular, Vue are in the game for a long time. we can only see how Sveltekit gonna handle that after some time
If looking for a job there are tons for React and none I see is hiring "svelte" developers. It's not there yet and most companies have already built on React / Angular / Vue.
Only chance for svelte are super startups and hobby projects for now. Give it a year or two. 😆
@@nivethan_me @Nivethan Dude, we are not talking about job opportunities, we are talking about meta frameworks, Sveltekit is No.1 but not even mentioned among seven existed competitors and that confused many people you know 🤔
SolidStart is still in beta, but it will be sick once it passes 1.0
brother thaks you a lot because of you react js coursing i got job in a software company love form pakistan
Congrats
Wouldn't this direction make PHP gain relevance again? I've recently explored Symfony 6 and I was surprised of how close the dev experience is to a node-based framework but then the 'modules' are much easier to obtain and use. I feel like it has gone under the radar while everybody was looking solely to JS, but I bet any JS framework fan would get second thoughts if they tried sf.
Symfony is the complete and utter opposite of anything NodeJS: super opinionated, bulky, slow to develop in and a pretty-looking tool aimed mostly at impressing clueless clients.
Check Laravel too
@@nordicnomad5473 Will do.
I used Max's course when I started to learn React. I recognize the voice anywhere. Gigachad Max 🙏
Thanks your Udemy courses are amazing. I learn react with your course!!!
Would have loved to hear your take on web assembly and MS Blazor, which, with the combination of Blazor client and server side options, gives you that next gen option you see us going in.
This kinda completes the cycle. But with new tools and modelling it's always interesting to work.
Hello Max, I'm working through your Remix class. Great stuff. Thanks.
What about web assembly
Honestly, this video sums up the problem with JavaScript and why the Vanilla.js website is so important. You forgot to mention that we also got evergreen browsers in this time and better native apis. ... But the video makes sense if you make all your money selling courses for JavaScript frameworks.
Even when you use "vanilla" js, eventually when your app grows, you will create templates, wrappers and utilities for readability, composition and consistency. Essentially you created your own framework that only you understand
@@aquaductape There are standards, patterns, and conventions you can follow. So "no" to what you said.
What is your thoughts on the Qwik framework? From what I've seen so far, it is quite a paradigm shift from other frameworks.
Astro can do similar thing, with providers, but at the end everything is new and better paradigm, until, the project gets messy.
Astro Qwik and all of the other island architecture frameworks are interesting, but I think the jury is still out any will take off or it's just a passing fad. Personally, I can't let go of NextJS 13 until I see some convincing reasons to drop it. SolidStart is the only newer framework that I have interest in.
@@coherentpanda7115 Looks like crap about to fail, i don't see what brings to the table, qwik i astro really push forward FE frameworks...
Weird that you didn't mention svelte which compiles your code to js so you don't ship a framework to the browser.
Or qwik with it's innovative resumable feature which gets rid of hydration.
Qwik and Astro should have been mentioned, but the "compiled" frameworks were covered as an aspect with the inclusion of Solid (basically what Svelte does for "Vue-ish" code, Solid does for React)
You only ship JS with Angular too.
I've been coding JS for 20 years and love knockout. The biggest plus is the mindset where the js knows nothing about the html. The HTML binds itself to the JS. Knockout is more of a utility, but the mvvc mindset is the the most important part.
What's your take on Svelte + Svelte Kit?
Thanks for putting this together. It's helpful for a guy who has been primarily backend development and needing to move to modern stack dev. Great overview!
I wonder about Django and specifically Django Templates for front-ends. Is it even a thing nowadays or are the JS frameworks the way to go?
We are also in the next evolution of Max's TH-cam production value
now we are going to populate new frameworks in the backend!
Could you please make a separate video on AnalogJs please 🥰
And there is still no built-in package manager in browsers with cloud storage so that all sites use the same sources for libraries, and do not load everything in own bundles or from different cdns.
Wow max..!
It's always soo good to hear youu
Thank you for this video, nice summary and thoughts! What I got from it though, is that you are soon going to lunch a SolidJS course. Awesome!
Can't believe he didn't mention Svelte.
Yes. I agree with where Javascript is going.
express.js is used more than next.js in back-end development
Incredible, ignoring Svelte and SvelteKit.
just like how the job market does 🤣
@@nivethan_me like solidjs ?
@@SilvestreVivo anything except React Angular Vue 🤷♂
Hot take: All these frameworks move to backend because they can provide server infrastructure for hosting (e.g. Vercel) which they charge a shit ton of money for.
You didn't talk about Qwik which I'm much more interested in, I'm planning to build my next app with it.
He focused on the "big 3" frameworks, which ate the most important for getting a job at the moment
A lesson I learned, you need to make money so you are not dependent on something you can't control.
Thanks man, its like having an European Seth Rogen explaining me this.
So basically, we are moving more and more towards what Rich Harris coined as "Transitional Apps" in this great talk right here: th-cam.com/video/860d8usGC0o/w-d-xo.html
I'd actually like it if that term would become the official name in the long run, it is very fitting. Maybe you could help that along Max, by adopting the term to use wherever it fits.
And speaking of Rich Harris: I also hope that you will announce a new course about SvelteKit soon, it certainly deserved one. Or, even better, update your Udemy Svelte course and replace the whole part that covers Sapper (which is basically officially dead now) with SvelteKit lessons instead. I would certainly pay for such an extensive update.
I would say, never change a running system. I am stuck with my Laravel Vue application combo and I can do build any kind of application with it, compared with a overall framework like quasar or build by your own wrapper this can be adapted as an Desktop Application, Hybrid Smartphone App or even a super dynamic Website. Don't change to much of you will never have time to do some productive work at all. My PS4 Package Sender v2 is a great example for this and not only it's one of the best of it's kind, it just works perfectly.
The way forward is likely NOT JavaScript. WASM and Blazor - especially webpage launched native Blazor point the way (it may/probably won't be Blazor but some other environment with similar functionality).
Blazor is not really for public websites but for internal use because of its slow loading start
@@bswill5077 It can be installed on windows linux or ios
@@bswill5077 Blazor MAUI Hybrid
Never ended to use Php and it payed off
Max please can you update your nextjs course. Thank you sir.
Thank you for the video! So are we moving to the fact that web developers should know and use both frontend and backend?
MAX will do course on sveltekit and then he will add it in the list. Until no word about svelte or sveltekit
JavaScript Universe (JSU) Phase 7 it began
I bought 8 courses over the years from your courses max, and I will continue to buy more because you are an awesome instructor!!!
I hope you do an extensive course on GraphQL.
and I'm asking one more thing if you could give me your python course 2023 for free, I would really appreciate it.
I looked up for a python course in Udemy, I even searched in your account in Udemy for python course, and I didn't find it, then I proceeded to buy python course from another instructor, I tried to request a refund so I can buy your python course, and they didn't refused to do so, little I know that there is another account for you, there I found python course 2023, but I'm short on money 😣.
thank you for this video 🌹
@academind Can you do a separate video for AnalogJS ?
Love your content, thanks for sharing!!
You didn't mention the last phase... The death of all the frameworks courtesy of Svelte.
Is Node Express framework not an alterntive to these upcoming meta frameworks?
Hey Max. Thanks for this video. I was expecting you to mention NestJS too. Don't you think it has a future combined with Angular?
For someone who started out with free or dirt cheap shared php hosting and hasn't touched web code in 10 years, what is the simplest and CHEAPEST way to do server side JS today?
What about Svelte?
I love the wall art in the background: !FALSE -- It's funny because it's true 🤣
I see Maximillian also reads and listens to Swyx.
I hope you will create a next13 tutorial
Next phase will be back to vanilla js
Later JS adopt all required features into the core.
Similar we will no longer required any CSS preprocessors
The lack of a framework is NOT the cause of bad code. You can write beautiful code without a framework, and awful code with one.
This is the first I've heard of Analogjs lol. It's very interesting because the recent livestreams from the Angular team have had the creator of Analogjs (Brandon), and other angular team members, talking about the work they will put into ngUniversal to adopt the metaframework features. That seems to contradict the work that Brandon is doing on his own. Very interesting situation. My suspicion is that he was working on it since last year and it wasn't until more recently that the angular team decided internally to add these features to the monolithic angular way as opposed to metaframework approach.
Angular will not support vite but custom esbuild, I think analog will be more lightweight but as a result will be able to adopt new technology without waiting for Angular team, analog just uses vite, also has file-based routing.
Max you are amazing!! Love you♥
What is the difference between Analog.js and Angular Universal? I thought Angular Universal is like next.js for react?
Yes, Universal for SSR (Server Side Rendering)
@@brahmharsh24 but what is the difference between Analog.js and Angular Universal?
Always used good old PHP for full stack, and with Symfony, Laravel or CakePHP developing a full stack app never been easier. Never could understand dudes bushing PHP and using JSX along with JS to render HTML where you could just do that on the server and pass the results, this is what for HTML was created back then. And now with modern JS that has Service workers, PWA developing SPA with PHP and some JS makes it perfect. This way heavy-lifting is always done on the server with some little JS to make it nice.
The blissful ignorance in comments like the above is making me so envious.
@@maelstrom-qw1jl Yeah especially when you live in parallel universe where PHP does not exist. And is not a major web programming language which runs a lot of big projects and virtually is a backbone of the web. It is so cool to only learn JS and some framework and reinvent the wheel called server rendering and then call yourself a software engineer 😉
Agreed, don't use the axe to cut the cake or the knife to chop the wood !
JavaScript is great at the client side , let it stay there
would love to see a solidjs course this year
The fact he name dropped it multiple times gives us hope.
That would be solid
i'm not into svelte right now, but i think is the future, is probably the most disruptive framework i've seen in several years or even a decade
What JavaScript framework would you recommend for a project that needs to be highly stable over a two-year period of inactivity? Ideally, it should require minimal to no updates for the framework itself and its dependencies during this time. Is there any particular framework known for its long-term support and stability? lol
I am watching about JavaScript in a Web application build on JS...
Could you please update VueJS course to use Vite, Pinia and Volar
The elioWay is the future. Frameworks will keep evolving. But if we stick to the same patterns and data models anything written in any framework is reusable.
I like this kind of content, thanks Max!
Next phase is emscripten and webassembly
Why you didnt mention svelte?
thanks for the video, what do you think about laravel?
It’s tiring to see JS evolve.
JS devs should give Blazor a try.
PHP to JS:
You Couldn't Live with Your Own Failure, Where Did that Bring You? Back to Me
And as an artist side of things I am quite f*c*** up :( I tried to look for frontend since I am really bad at backend and coding generally... but seems like there wont be any place for artists...
Lets keep going
Saying that Angular is more important than Svelte is like saying that Ford is more important than Tesla
To all the React developers, I highly recommend you to try out SolidJS. It's just like React, but better 😂
everything is better than React cancer, youngsters just dont know what is what, and get recomenced into cancer cult. thats how they grow
@@Eldalion99999 the market already opted of React vdom 😆 you can choose whatever you want just make sure you'll find a job. Personally all those fw look alike on the long run, but none is sufficient to do different app paradigms, SPA? SSR? That's the issue IMO
Teacher Max apparently and definitely is a fan of React.
Why do i prefer Vue instead of React and Angular.
Wow, I’ve watched a lot of your videos in the past, and I have liked them, but now I have to question everything you say going forward because you didn’t think it was worthwhile to even mention Svelte!
SolidJS is solid
Android: Well, its been a few years time to change everything
Web: Hold my framework
What about dotNET world??