lol.... v8 sounds like a german car. Had to be a high performance Car, the V8 is actually a highly optimize car for carrying js code to the os and machine code(running js code). Germans and engine. nice synonym.
this course should one of the mandatory courses that a developer should follow to make the code work in very efficient way and give best performance and hardware management .
Sehr interessant, Dankeschön! Would you agree that the statement "From a compiler's perspective, the best thing we can do is to write code that looks like it is statically typed", can be used as an argument in favour of TypeScript, which as I understand it naturally encourages us to write code that looks like it is statically typed. Hence, does writing our code using TypeScript make it more likely that the resulting JavaScript code can be optimised in a way that increases performance? Using that argument, can it therefore be inferred that "using TypeScript makes our apps faster"?
Definitely, also, because TypeScript is great! The "types" in TypeScript are not necessarily the same "types" for V8, but by using TS you're getting automatically more statically types nature, so it's usually better for the engine's speculative optimizations.
The question is: does adding types help us understand the program better, or does it just add noise? Having used around 30 languages, including Javascript since 1996, TypeScript a bit, and a typed version of Javascript for Flash (which I would categorize as the same language in all these cases), I think the type information is mostly useless noise. I also write a lot of C++ (since 1994). It seems to always be moving more toward generics where types are inferred or deduced, so advanced C++ code is extremely noisy, sometimes becoming impossible to understand. All that extra noise merely says "do whatever you want whenever you need to, compiler." That's exactly what JS does ALWAYS and with ZERO noise.
Type refinement in JavaScript is a very cheap operation but it allows the compiler to optimize parts of the code it can be certain about (look at asm.js). Variables not changing their types certainly does help optimization. Also object literals having the same "shape" does help. But what doesn't help are "nullables" (not always the same type), tuples (don't really exist in JS) or tagged unions (while a nice feature of TS, for V8 it would actually be impossible).
Sehr nett Frage :) Theorytically you are right on point.If we discard the indirection stage added to first compile TS to JS, the generated JS is more optimized and hence might run slightly faster. To my observations the performance gains are considerably small for a mid sized app. A con is it increases the build time marginally
Some time ago the Chrom profiler would show you if a function was deoptimized. Unformtunately this "performance debugging" information is no longer available in newer versions of Chrome.
C++ has 'auto' which works similar to 'var' in Js. But, exactly as in Js, you cannot ignore the type. Even assignment does different things, depending on the type of the variable. In Js, primitives will be copied but objects will be a copy of reference, which then refers to the same object.
In C++11, the "auto" keyword was redefined to be a placeholder for a single type deduced from their initializer. For example, "auto x = 42;" is identical to "int x = 42;". Likewise, "auto x = true;" would mean "bool x = true;". The "auto" variable is still bound *permanently* to a type. That's completely different from var, which is a variant. A variant's type can change during its lifetime. C++17 has std::any and std::variant, which are more like var: godbolt.org/z/4926dx
16'33": "this is the optimized code that was generated after we have ..." What does "" mean? Does it mean that the script file contains a similar code pattern repeatedly, or that you have pressed F5 a few times?
great talk! 21:00 is this the reason for the optional variables : testVar?: number etc.. in typescript? will be checking to what it will becompiled now! :D
I like how they changed the names of the processing of the V8 egine to stuff like " ignition" and "turbo fan". its easier to remember because its like a car engine now.
Thanks for the presentation. I'm in a bit over my head, but I was able to follow along. I am uncertain about one point, though. Given two objects {x:"a string", y:5} and {x:"another string", y:7}, would they be of the same type, despite differing string lengths? Is the string value of obj.x stored by reference so that the location of obj.y is always the same, relative to the object?
I maybe late for the party but, according the ECMA-262 3rd Edition Specification, each character represents a single 16-bit unit of UTF-16 text:. Hence both obj will have same types
Today, if a programmer wants to write JS code with high performance, he/she needs to be more under the hood, to be more specific, more about hardware. Although the V8 engine is just a virtual machine, it essentially was designed by people with a good understanding of hardware.
While I'm always amazed at compiler black magic, I'm also confused at why they are even required. I get dynamic types are great for prototyping, that programmer time > cpu time n all such. Sometimes thou I wish we had access stricter typing, pointers, immovable class/struct etc just as an option. Just make it a separate mode or something. Maybe if you set a flag to true, you can no longer dynamically add properties or at least you will get some sort of warning. In exchange you are guaranteed the faster code.
might be because Optimizing Compiler has nothing to optimize and everything is handled by baseline compiler. Happens a lot with short non-repetitive js code
I don't like the encouragement to write more statically typed code to make up for where the JIT is not good at optimizing the dynamically typed language is made for. How about making the engine better at doing that for the programmer, so the programmer does not have to do the engine's job?
If you represent the same type of objects by having all the abcd properties for everything is like highlighting the advantages of a class based programming and emphasizing the cons of a dynamically type language, isn't it? lol
An excellent way to spend 25 minutes. Thank you!
Indeed
Very interesting stuff. It's always nice to know a little more about what goes on under the hood.
This is very useful for understanding javascript internals. Thank you Franziska for the clear talk!👏
Amazing presentation. It explained everything really well and even taught me a few tricks.
Thanks much Franziska. Would love to see more of such stuff. Help us work better with the JavaScript engine
Awesome Presentation !!! This definitely Demystified some of the Inner workings of V8 for me. Kudos !
No wonder they names it V8, they made it in germany.
Actually it was initially created in Denmark by Lars Bak.
@@dealloc #totallyNotRelated
@@dealloc oh wow, really lol
why? i cant get it.
lol.... v8 sounds like a german car. Had to be a high performance Car, the V8 is actually a highly optimize car for carrying js code to the os and machine code(running js code). Germans and engine. nice synonym.
this course should one of the mandatory courses that a developer should follow to make the code work in very efficient way and give best performance and hardware management .
cool talk, i learned a lot :) i wish there were more accessible talks like this that talk about JS performance
An excellent way to spend 25 minutes. Thank you! really amazing :)
Started out a bit slow, but then this talk became very interesting indeed, and this will help us write better, faster code. Awesome!
Simple but useful presentation
I love listening to smart people.
- thanks!!
The intro jingle is cool!
Sehr interessant, Dankeschön!
Would you agree that the statement "From a compiler's perspective, the best thing we can do is to write code that looks like it is statically typed", can be used as an argument in favour of TypeScript, which as I understand it naturally encourages us to write code that looks like it is statically typed. Hence, does writing our code using TypeScript make it more likely that the resulting JavaScript code can be optimised in a way that increases performance?
Using that argument, can it therefore be inferred that "using TypeScript makes our apps faster"?
Definitely, also, because TypeScript is great! The "types" in TypeScript are not necessarily the same "types" for V8, but by using TS you're getting automatically more statically types nature, so it's usually better for the engine's speculative optimizations.
Hence even after being dynamic type language, the performance increases by statically typing. Is this same under the hood of python?
The question is: does adding types help us understand the program better, or does it just add noise? Having used around 30 languages, including Javascript since 1996, TypeScript a bit, and a typed version of Javascript for Flash (which I would categorize as the same language in all these cases), I think the type information is mostly useless noise. I also write a lot of C++ (since 1994). It seems to always be moving more toward generics where types are inferred or deduced, so advanced C++ code is extremely noisy, sometimes becoming impossible to understand. All that extra noise merely says "do whatever you want whenever you need to, compiler." That's exactly what JS does ALWAYS and with ZERO noise.
Type refinement in JavaScript is a very cheap operation but it allows the compiler to optimize parts of the code it can be certain about (look at asm.js). Variables not changing their types certainly does help optimization. Also object literals having the same "shape" does help. But what doesn't help are "nullables" (not always the same type), tuples (don't really exist in JS) or tagged unions (while a nice feature of TS, for V8 it would actually be impossible).
Sehr nett Frage :)
Theorytically you are right on point.If we discard the indirection stage added to first compile TS to JS, the generated JS is more optimized and hence might run slightly faster. To my observations the performance gains are considerably small for a mid sized app.
A con is it increases the build time marginally
can the engine not be modified to take typescript raw and use the types for increased speed??
Lots of knowledgeable insights thanks
Interesting stuff, thanks for the explaination!
Some time ago the Chrom profiler would show you if a function was deoptimized. Unformtunately this "performance debugging" information is no longer available in newer versions of Chrome.
Very nice video. At 22:15, isn't the "let" keyword part of ES6 and not ES5?
you are right. let is ES6 specification
C++ has 'auto' which works similar to 'var' in Js. But, exactly as in Js, you cannot ignore the type. Even assignment does different things, depending on the type of the variable. In Js, primitives will be copied but objects will be a copy of reference, which then refers to the same object.
In C++11, the "auto" keyword was redefined to be a placeholder for a single type deduced from their initializer. For example, "auto x = 42;" is identical to "int x = 42;". Likewise, "auto x = true;" would mean "bool x = true;". The "auto" variable is still bound *permanently* to a type. That's completely different from var, which is a variant. A variant's type can change during its lifetime. C++17 has std::any and std::variant, which are more like var:
godbolt.org/z/4926dx
ES6 and ES.Next are really far apart by now, everyone's having a hard time keeping up :/
Now we have ES11!!!
Thank you so much for sharing such a great information. Very informative 25 minutes👍🏻😇🙌🏻🙋🏻♂️
Excellent talk. Thank you!
is the intro supposed to sound like the zelda theme?
I didn't get
"Baseline compiler is an interpreter"
I am beginner and as per my knowledge interpretation is different than compilation i guess ??
16'33": "this is the optimized code that was generated after we have ..." What does "" mean? Does it mean that the script file contains a similar code pattern repeatedly, or that you have pressed F5 a few times?
great talk!
21:00 is this the reason for the optional variables : testVar?: number etc.. in typescript?
will be checking to what it will becompiled now! :D
What happened after your test?
Brilliant talk,
Thanks for sharing
I like how they changed the names of the processing of the V8 egine to stuff like " ignition" and "turbo fan". its easier to remember because its like a car engine now.
Is there a record of tech talk by her co-worker Maria speaking about JavaScript parsing she mentioned on 11:30 ?
th-cam.com/video/Fg7niTmNNLg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the presentation. I'm in a bit over my head, but I was able to follow along. I am uncertain about one point, though.
Given two objects {x:"a string", y:5} and {x:"another string", y:7}, would they be of the same type, despite differing string lengths? Is the string value of obj.x stored by reference so that the location of obj.y is always the same, relative to the object?
Yes they would be considered to be the same type by the compiler.
Strings are the same type. The length of a string is part of the type. Strings in js and most languages are a length/address pair.
I maybe late for the party but, according the ECMA-262 3rd Edition Specification, each character represents a single 16-bit unit of UTF-16 text:. Hence both obj will have same types
Intro was a variation of Zelda fountian/file select music.
Also the beginning of Scott Pilgrim.
Thanks a lot😄 this was a great video.
Excellent presentation
super interesting. great presentation
Amazing talk! Thanks!
Awesome explanation.
Interesting !!! Nice explanation ...thank you !!
If websites provided v8 bytecode instead of js to skip parsing, how much quicker would it be?
Quicker x0 when it's ran on another engine and crashes
i dont claim to understand it but i've heard of webassembly recently... which might be the missing interface required in this case... Good Discussion.
Very nice ... interesting .... I code while I listen .... nice
Excellent subject matter
Can someone help me identify if two types are the same?! I want to make use of "hot functions". {a: [obj1]} vs {a:[obj2]}?
Not the same as obj1 could be very different from obj2
they are the same type
finally some one to explain the core to an extent .. time consuming though.
So wait...do they call it fau 8?
I'd love to study this in more depth. Anyone can recommend some book?
would also like to know.
She has a medium post on v8 that includes references to books etc.
Today, if a programmer wants to write JS code with high performance, he/she needs to be more under the hood, to be more specific, more about hardware. Although the V8 engine is just a virtual machine, it essentially was designed by people with a good understanding of hardware.
Thank you for sharing !!
I'm not in in development jet, more than webdesgin at least, but it what intresting to here because i will learn javascript in neaer future.
Awesome! 👏👏
Great talk.
While I'm always amazed at compiler black magic, I'm also confused at why they are even required.
I get dynamic types are great for prototyping, that programmer time > cpu time n all such. Sometimes thou I wish we had access stricter typing, pointers, immovable class/struct etc just as an option. Just make it a separate mode or something. Maybe if you set a flag to true, you can no longer dynamically add properties or at least you will get some sort of warning. In exchange you are guaranteed the faster code.
amazing, thank you!! :)
the first flag and the third flag does not work with chrome
And that's how TypeScript was invented
Why doesn't --print-opt-code work for me?
might be because Optimizing Compiler has nothing to optimize and everything is handled by baseline compiler. Happens a lot with short non-repetitive js code
I don't like the encouragement to write more statically typed code to make up for where the JIT is not good at optimizing the dynamically typed language is made for. How about making the engine better at doing that for the programmer, so the programmer does not have to do the engine's job?
8;30 is where the beef is at
I love them V8s
Just like we coding DB III program long time ago.
Cool thank you
loved it...
Thank you mam
I LOVE JAVASCRIPT
why does every talk here have that one awkward meme at the start?????
Thanks for gift
If you represent the same type of objects by having all the abcd properties for everything is like highlighting the advantages of a class based programming and emphasizing the cons of a dynamically type language, isn't it? lol
Cool T Shirt😘
good shit
😍
I should learn assembly, not JS
duktape vs jerryscript
Noice
ajalas que pro
Make python plz
Bun is coming
Great Smart Women !
Typescript to the rescue