In our fleet we had a 2011 with 65k miles do that as well. Broken crank and spun the bearings. Our dealer wanted oil analysis before Ford would warranty it. We do pm for oil @ 200 hrs Ans fuels @400 hrs. Truck now has 110k on it deleted of course. Ours was stuck in regeneration for whatever reason. Thx bill you guys rock.
You said that you have never seen metal break like that, we'll, you haven't worked on enough engines young man, you hit it right on the head while I was typing this, chalk it up as what you already know, a stress in the metal, a flaw in manufacturing, to bad Ford says stick it, in my day they would have taken care of it, heck, I remember being on the heavy duty line in 73 and we had a few hundred of these come thru on the old 390 engine, cleanest brake in the crank you ever seen, wow, it just came to me, the exact same spot you now have. Man, I sure made a lot of money replacing them things back then.
Aircraft mechanic here. If it simply snapped at idle, not under a load, I would agree that it's simply a bad crank. Seen this before on an aircraft engine that snapped a crank pulled back to idle on a landing approach. Sometimes shit happens. Probably a flaw that simply decided to fail on a cold start. It is odd that there doesn't appear to be any void at the fracture site though. Could use Zy-glow or dye pen it under magnification and see if there's a pattern. (Micro fractures) At least when this happens on a truck, nobody dies. Pilot lost the front of the crank, the prop, stalled the plane, crashed and died. We did find voids at the break though in that failure.
I did a google search on this problem and I guess there were a number of 2011 6.7's that had broken cranks. It must have been a bad batch of crank shafts.
Check the Line Boring for the crank to see if its aligned I came across a few engines that broke cranks because of the bores being a bit off Cummins N14, a few ford blocks and other engines Its something to check.... I seen some cams snap from misaligned bores too. From the misalignment it puts a little wiggle in the shaft making it fatigue and snap in a nice clean break Typical metal fatigue
Balancing, casting flaw, or a sonic boom or noise. I seen that back in 2000 with a big bore Cummins at the dealership. I would also inspect it four beach marks at the break. You can also get it sonically check to see if other areas of that crank it week. I'm just saying. Bill, let us know what you find.
Casting issues...it is what it is. Remember the MD, DC-10 that grenaded the turbine disc on the tail mounted engine and severed the entire hydraulic system causing a very bad day for the souls on that aircraft??? Micro fracture in the titanium during the cool down period after casting at the factory. Lasted Years before it finally failed. This sort of thing happens on rare occasions...If a human made it, it can or will fail.
I had Bill do my truck in 2015. Truck is still running perfectly. Not one single leak or issue. Have about 30k miles on it. I do the recommended maintenance and only use Ford parts. Truck is a gem. Thank you Bill
I've had a truck do this, one main bearing spun when the truck was passing someone on the freeway and broke the crank. The main and rod bearings don't have any retainers so they spin easier. I have a 2016 with 15000 miles that spun a main. I'm waiting on the short block so I can put it back together.
I read somewhere that from time to time, a main bearing would spin on these motors and block off the oil passage keeping oil from getting up where it belongs. Sounds like that’s the issue here.
I bought a 2011 6.7L had the same problem the crank it had broken in three places. It had only 18600 miles on it. Ford really gave me a hard time about it. It took me three months to get my truck back
Ford must've used a Duramax crank in this one. Damn things snap cranks like it's the cool thing to do. It was a problem from the first generation LB7 engine all the way up to the outgoing LML. We'll see if the L5P crank is any better. I have an 06 GMC 2500 with an LBZ Duramax that has 308k miles on it, but the possibility of it snapping the crank or cracking a piston is always a thought in the back of my head. Duramax shortblocks are extremely fragile. To see a Power Stroke, let alone a 6.7 with a broken crank is very surprising.
I have a tuned 6.4 with DPF delete and an aftermarket supercharger. I run it wide open all the time. The fact that it's a ticking time bomb is half the fun!
Not on a 6.7 but on a 6.4 bucket truck I put 3 long blocks in it in 22k miles truck only had 68k. Found the torque converter to be out of balance before I put the 3rd one in it. Changed the converter and 100k later it’s still running.
Both of my neighbors bought 11 model 6.7s and one made it about 20k and broke crank and Ford warranted it for him, the other made it just over 100k and spun front mains and same thing, so idk but there has to be a reason for the early failures like this, I also own a 6.7 but a tad newer 2017 and I tow heavy and run it hard, no issues at all yet, but I'm the only guy to touch my truck too, I'm meticulous, I cut every filter, every time on every thing and inspect, always have. But when I want to really feel my age and drive a man's truck I jump in my 2000 crewcab 6sp 4x4 7.3 powerstroke that I have owned for 16 years and not a single person has touched it but me ! Fully built from the ground up, it is a true work of art ! Btw great job keeping on top of the powerstroke community I love seeing them being repaired instead of being thrown away!
This looks similar to an issue with 6.5l GM's where bad harmonic balancer would cause the crank to break usually in the same spot as the 6.7 in the video...
I'm a Cummins guy all the way. But these new 6.7s are great have 1 at the landscaping I work for and another one at a genral construction company What's weird is the one from the GC has had 3 engines in it 2 of them under 70k the glow plugs snapped off and another for the emissions stuff I forget that was a engine at well. Finally put a new one in it and it's a great truck. But never had a problem with the one it is deleted and it makes a hell of a difference
I'd pull out the crankshaft and see if the mains are straight if it ran hot or something the block may be warped. Or check to see if it had new motor mounts or something maybe someone jacked up the motor by the balancer
this happened to my brother.. same year model at 40ish thousand miles.. was pulling a horse trailer and the crank broke in front of motor and spun a bearing.. before or after idk.. but yea its rare.. my 6.7 is 130k with no problem and i hammer down
I work in the crankshaft industry. Specifically in a Metallurgy lab. We work hand and hand with our fatigue lab. There can be many reasons why a part will fatigue. the surface finish down to the core material reduction rate. that being said, most fatigue failures are caused by heat, surface finish or improper heat treatments. since the part is not discolored it is most likely one of the later two or dirt in the steel. without looking at the part in detail I would make a guess from the fracture pattern that I can see is the fracture started at or near the surface. all else is speculation.
I have felt with harmonic balancer failures in bigger diesel engines - 4000 hp & 20 cylinders - seems the failures manifest themselves in the second main from the rear and the second main from the front - I once had to deal with a harmonic balancer recall because the viscosity fluid in the balancer would solidify- I'd make sure to replace the harmonic balancer on any engine that had a rotating assembly failure... on the practical side I'd be looking at the carbon content of the steal - people want to cause that type of failure a casting flaw when in actuality it was cast with the improper receipy - casting steal is an on the fly procedure that sometimes doesn't work out right ... but that doesn't mean the foundry won't pour the iron anyway -- so it boils down to a quality control issue - I'd send that crank to a Meturlagerist lab and have the casting checked - then when it fails at 60k Ford would be way more friendly about standing behind their product.. crank shaft failures at 60k are unacceptable no matter how much time is involved...
Other than a flaw in the metal I haven't seen anything like this in the dealer life. I have seen high pressure pumps lock engines up and cam shaft failure lock them up too. That's why I tell guys the ford esp is well worth the money.
Had a brand new long throw Crankshaft do this in a small block before... the casting process had included a few grains of errant casting sand into the metal of the crank and caused it to shear at half its rated strength. .. possible a cleanliness issue at the plant that made this crank? It would explain why it isn't a consistent issue with them.....
I got a used 2011 6.7 f350 and think that I have the same problem. I have worked for 20 years to get a truck like this and according to the dealership, I need a new motor. I only put about 6000 miles on it when I was driving home one day and my wife told me she heard a bang. I pulled over and opened the hood. There was a very loud knocking. My heart sank. I knew something was wrong. I shut her down and had her towed( the truck. Not my wife) to the dealership. They pulled the oil pan off and showed me the metal in the bottom and parts of bearings. From what you have explained in this video, it sounds like the same thing. Now I am not a master mechanic by any means. But my life long dream of having this truck just turned into a lawn ornament. I am going to have to pull it apart one day in the distant future to find out for sure if it did the same thing. Then sell the truck for parts just to pay it off.
Raced aluminum version of Chevy v8, also experienced in marine diesels. In racing broken crank seems to be related to spun bearing. Always happens at high rpm. Has to be align bored because bearing supports get moved, beat down. Aluminum block is never reliable again. Backup engine only. The only time I saw it in a marine engine, many years ago, the main bearings were out of align. Always out of align or caused by the break, I don't know. Align boring fixed it and rebuilt engine ran forever. I would align bore main bearings, at least check bearing alignment. I have a 7.3. If the new engine is reliable, maybe it's time for a new truck.
There are metallurgists that can look it over with a microscope and usually figure out the root cause. They have a lot of experience in looking over failed jet turbine parts. It would cost you $$$ though.
I have watched many of your videos, enjoyed them all. Very impressed by the way you asked for viewer feedback on this engine failure. You could have just fixed the truck but because you actually care about what you are doing you want to know more. Some excellent feedback in these comments. Keep up the good work.
My truck started running rough... I turned around drove 72 miles home ...put new starter in and all of a sudden a knocking started sounded like top back ...before I could shut it down it stopped and locked up ....now I'm thinking my crankshaft broke but won't know till I tear into it . I'll keep you informed👍👍
Hi, radiography would reveal defects and that's what this is. Added vehicle cost but worth it. I know a race engine builder that has all cranks and rotating parts radiographed. One engine he was building went through 6 cranks before he found one with no defects. Ah, in a perfect world. We wonder why planes crash and parts fail. Minimum quality assurance inspections equal failure. Look at the US Navy submarine program. ONE sub lost due to mechanical failure. That was more of a design flaw simply put.......... Thanks, Benton
I worked with a guy thay had this same thing happen with about the same amount of miles. 2011 truck bone stock around 60000 miles. Ford investigated and concluded a casting flaw in the crank.
Bill....great clip as always....just an idea, I know that the Duramax had /has issues with broken crankshaft in higher performance applications. The factory firing is 1-2-7-8-4-5-6-3 (odd on passanger side even on driver's side). The fix was a different cam (plus tuning) to change the firing order to 1-5-6-3-4-2-7-8. Not saying ford needs different cams since the 2011 6.7 powerstroke order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8......but maybe an idea since #6-5-4 are right in order and putting stress on the crank in the same place? Far as harmonics go, i have worked on MANY 6.2 and 6.5 GM engines in the HMMWV where the balancer was junk can caused the crank to fail ALWAYS at the 1st crank bearing. Seen this as well on C7 cats, 903 Cummins and several others. When the crank broke on the front, it was almost ALWAYS a bad harmonic balancer and lets face it, we dont look at the balancer very much, and more often than not only when something like this happens. Was there any damage to this guys balancer?
Hey Bill, I work at our family run business and we had a 2011 come in with a broken crankshaft also. It had broke straight down the middle but like you said, there was a decent dark spot along the crack indicating it’s been like that for some time. Located in Canada, this was sometime ago now but just found the video now. Excellent content! 👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you for your 6.7L autopsy. You are 110% correct about the casting flaw. You can see that clearly. You need to save that and show Ford engineers. We may have a recall issue. Ford should pay for that repair. It is very peculiar as you say. Thanks again for your videos.
My friend had a similar incident with his 2012 6.7. He did however have a fifth wheel that he was towing at the time. He was going onto the freeway when he said the crankshaft broke and sent oil all over the freeway. The truck had 22k miles on it and was covered under warranty.
It broke exactly where a modded duramax breaks, but this crank broke along two axis, gotta be a casting flaw, you would have felt a bad balancer when you took it off, that block and internals look spotless, the only thing that could have broke a stock motor is towing super heavy and getting pushed by super heavy trailer with exhaust breaks on or in low gear but looks like casting flaw to me
Definitely a manufacturing defect of some kind. Not the first time I have heard of or seen with my own 2 eyes a 6.7 with the crank that snapped almost clean off just near the front 2 cylinders. I honestly believe that Ford had a batch of motors...
One of our ambulances (2012) had same thing happen. They were returning from a rescue cruising 55mph and they said same noise. I advised them to turn around and go to Ford dealership. Ford said they drove it in and it lost all gears. After disassembly they found the broken crankshaft and later they found the flexplate had broke as well which is why they lost transmission. They said it was stress from driving and gave similar quote for new/reman engine.
There have been similar failures in Corvair Flat 6 engines modified for homebuilt aircraft. What was found was that the fillet radius on the connecting rod journal was out of specification after the crank had been reground. The radius was insufficient and caused a fatigue failure in a similar fashion.
Hey Bill I have been watching your channels for years and I just seen this video for the first time I just want to say thank you for doing a service to help people out then have spent thousands of dollars on diesel trucks to have nothing but trouble you're a saint and one heck of a diesel mechanic LOL
You have a good job, Own a busy shop, Employe a bunch of great mechanics, and work 60+ hours a week because International/Ford builds diesel engines that break! Yes everybody that I know who own,s a powerstroke from the mid 90s 6 liter or bigger has hade major costy repairs. so far the only diesel that I seen hold up is a old 7.3 liter. I,m sorry but if I was going to buy a used truck, I would buy a Isuzu or a Cummins. PS Is there a good powerstroke and what year?
I had a Ford mechanic at a fleet dealer in 2013 tell me that the earlier 6.7s should be avoided if they had under 100,000 miles. He said they had a metallurgy problem that caused spun bearings and sometimes broken cranks. He said it only affected some trucks so if buying a used one buy it with over 100,000 miles on it because the problem always manifests before 100,000 miles. He had two in his shop with the same issue you are seeing.
I don't know my butt from a hole in the ground, but if the crank wasn't properly tempered, the hardness of the steel could have caused it to be brittle, and then crack / break. See if you can do a rockwell test on the broken area. (a good machine shop should have a rockwell tester. then check it against factory spec, (it's just an idea)
My 2011 did the same thing at 67,xxx dealer replaced it sad they had seen several do it never had any problems after they put the updated engine in sold it at 240,xxx running strong
I've heard of these stories about these yammaha outboard engines where you have to replace the flywheel every 50 engine hours or else the harmonic balancer goes bad and breaks the crank.
I have seen this many times. I have worked on engines for 50 years. I pulled an engine apart that had the crank dropped on the end from a work bench. It was broke in the main journal just like what you see here. I have pulled 3 other engines apart that had impacts on the crank end. All were the same way. One of them was an old 455 olds wildcat engine. The man hit a piece of firewood dead center on the engine and broke the harmonic balancer. He had another one put back on but it started knocking about 1,000 miles later. Broke crank right at the same main.
Not to diesels but when a crank snaps like that its usually cause by too ignition timing (gas) , bad harmonics/balance job, and or spinning them too hard in the rpm. Seen a lot of guys making 800+hp on turbo stock block ford 351 windsors with a good tune up and low rpms. 2011 was the first year of the 6.7 so we know how first of any engine always isn't the best. Seems to be the same story for the 6.0, 6.4 ect.. First few years suck but I say a lot of 6.4 trucks on the road lately as prices have came down...idk if their 09+ or what. So tempted to buy one myself at the pricing but I wont.
Im not a power stroke owner but have followed your video because I appreciate your experience and knowledge, its good to hear that you say the 6.7 has been a reliable engine, Ford got a bad rap for the Navistar engines and its real hard to beat the reliability of that Cummins that Dodge uses. That is the ONLY good thing about a Dodge. While you were explaining I was saying to myself to replace the harmonic balancer and flywheel just to be sure. Good to hear you are. I agree since there have not been a string of failures like this that is just a fluke. a casting flaw that escaped the inspectors. I have worked in Aerospace for 32 years and shit happens to the best designed part. Keep up the good work Bill, I sure as hell enjoy what you are doing
In fact, at my grand father's shop, we replaced one in an old man's truck that was 100% stock and VERY WELL taken care of. It only had like 65 or 75k on it when it split. And it was the same kind of situation as your customer. Idling to warm it up in the morning then a couple mins later the guys that HORRENDOUS banging noise and ran outside to shut it down.... Had to be a bad batch of cranks
I like the reassurance this just gave me that I did the right thing all these years and kept my 00 7.3. As I have gotten older I hate the noisy thing, but 307,500 miles tells me I did the right thing in popping a new turbo on a few months ago instead of selling it when the turbo failed. I was really leaning towards a 6.7 truck but I have a few family members and friends working at Ford that said don't lol! To date my 7.3 has had three water pumps and a transmission which was my fault. 100HP Program and a 40" gooseneck with anger behind the wheel:) 1 alternator 1 starter at 200+k. Still think the 2015 and up 6.7s are pretty sound motors, but the 2012 and under seem questionable. I left Ford as a tech in 99 so I missed out on the good and the bad inside stuff I used to learn. Thanks Bill. Edit, I am a maintenance junky, but this trucks been to hell and back with me so its been used.
The one thing I learned in engineering school is round corners are good. Is there any notable difference in the radius between the bearing journal and counterweight on the broken crank and the new replacement? Sharp corners make for huge stress risers and with the timing gears on that end if the clearance on them isn't just right it could transfer a lot of extra force. Love the videos even as a Dodge guy. 😎
In our fleet we had a 2011 with 65k miles do that as well. Broken crank and spun the bearings. Our dealer wanted oil analysis before Ford would warranty it. We do pm for oil @ 200 hrs Ans fuels @400 hrs. Truck now has 110k on it deleted of course. Ours was stuck in regeneration for whatever reason. Thx bill you guys rock.
You said that you have never seen metal break like that, we'll, you haven't worked on enough engines young man, you hit it right on the head while I was typing this, chalk it up as what you already know, a stress in the metal, a flaw in manufacturing, to bad Ford says stick it, in my day they would have taken care of it, heck, I remember being on the heavy duty line in 73 and we had a few hundred of these come thru on the old 390 engine, cleanest brake in the crank you ever seen, wow, it just came to me, the exact same spot you now have. Man, I sure made a lot of money replacing them things back then.
I would check the line bore on the crankshaft journals
Ford had a machining problem in 2011 with the main caps. It would cause the caps to twist slightly and bind thus causing the crank to break.
And the crank was the problem. Seen it a couple times. Our customers always say it happens when they first crank in the morning. All 11 models
Aircraft mechanic here. If it simply snapped at idle, not under a load, I would agree that it's simply a bad crank. Seen this before on an aircraft engine that snapped a crank pulled back to idle on a landing approach. Sometimes shit happens. Probably a flaw that simply decided to fail on a cold start. It is odd that there doesn't appear to be any void at the fracture site though. Could use Zy-glow or dye pen it under magnification and see if there's a pattern. (Micro fractures) At least when this happens on a truck, nobody dies. Pilot lost the front of the crank, the prop, stalled the plane, crashed and died. We did find voids at the break though in that failure.
I'm a planer man and Harmonics can be a gremlin that almost always goes to mounting or stress. It always ends up in the finish product.
I did a google search on this problem and I guess there were a number of 2011 6.7's that had broken cranks. It must have been a bad batch of crank shafts.
Folgers can is a must have in any shop.
No powertrain coverage at 64,000 miles? Yeah that wouldn't have fuckin flown with me
Check the Line Boring for the crank to see if its aligned
I came across a few engines that broke cranks because of the bores being a bit off
Cummins N14, a few ford blocks and other engines
Its something to check.... I seen some cams snap from misaligned bores too.
From the misalignment it puts a little wiggle in the shaft making it fatigue and snap in a nice clean break
Typical metal fatigue
Balancing, casting flaw, or a sonic boom or noise. I seen that back in 2000 with a big bore Cummins at the dealership. I would also inspect it four beach marks at the break. You can also get it sonically check to see if other areas of that crank it week. I'm just saying. Bill, let us know what you find.
Casting issues...it is what it is. Remember the MD, DC-10 that grenaded the turbine disc on the tail mounted engine and severed the entire hydraulic system causing a very bad day for the souls on that aircraft???
Micro fracture in the titanium during the cool down period after casting at the factory. Lasted Years before it finally failed. This sort of thing happens on rare occasions...If a human made it, it can or will fail.
Coldsmoke
UA232. Glad I’m not the only one who thought of this.
I had Bill do my truck in 2015. Truck is still running perfectly. Not one single leak or issue. Have about 30k miles on it. I do the recommended maintenance and only use Ford parts. Truck is a gem.
Thank you Bill
I've had a truck do this, one main bearing spun when the truck was passing someone on the freeway and broke the crank. The main and rod bearings don't have any retainers so they spin easier. I have a 2016 with 15000 miles that spun a main. I'm waiting on the short block so I can put it back together.
I read somewhere that from time to time, a main bearing would spin on these motors and block off the oil passage keeping oil from getting up where it belongs. Sounds like that’s the issue here.
I bought a 2011 6.7L had the same problem the crank it had broken in three places. It had only 18600 miles on it. Ford really gave me a hard time about it. It took me three months to get my truck back
harmonic balancer seen it on a lot of the big caterpillars with high hours and some with just bad from the factory
Ford must've used a Duramax crank in this one. Damn things snap cranks like it's the cool thing to do. It was a problem from the first generation LB7 engine all the way up to the outgoing LML. We'll see if the L5P crank is any better. I have an 06 GMC 2500 with an LBZ Duramax that has 308k miles on it, but the possibility of it snapping the crank or cracking a piston is always a thought in the back of my head. Duramax shortblocks are extremely fragile. To see a Power Stroke, let alone a 6.7 with a broken crank is very surprising.
Kinda like the 6.5 turbo diesels when harmonic balancers fail.
I have a tuned 6.4 with DPF delete and an aftermarket supercharger. I run it wide open all the time. The fact that it's a ticking time bomb is half the fun!
Have you considered sending the harmonic balance back to the manufacture?
Not on a 6.7 but on a 6.4 bucket truck I put 3 long blocks in it in 22k miles truck only had 68k. Found the torque converter to be out of balance before I put the 3rd one in it. Changed the converter and 100k later it’s still running.
align bore possibly
Looks like a manufacturing flaw to me. Maybe make the old block/crank into a coffee table for shop?
Cylinder #1 is still on the right side front or passenger side front on the 6.7 powerstroke.
Both of my neighbors bought 11 model 6.7s and one made it about 20k and broke crank and Ford warranted it for him, the other made it just over 100k and spun front mains and same thing, so idk but there has to be a reason for the early failures like this, I also own a 6.7 but a tad newer 2017 and I tow heavy and run it hard, no issues at all yet, but I'm the only guy to touch my truck too, I'm meticulous, I cut every filter, every time on every thing and inspect, always have. But when I want to really feel my age and drive a man's truck I jump in my 2000 crewcab 6sp 4x4 7.3 powerstroke that I have owned for 16 years and not a single person has touched it but me ! Fully built from the ground up, it is a true work of art ! Btw great job keeping on top of the powerstroke community I love seeing them being repaired instead of being thrown away!
2011-2013 had a crank snapping problem, I remember seeing them working at Ford
This looks similar to an issue with 6.5l GM's where bad harmonic balancer would cause the crank to break usually in the same spot as the 6.7 in the video...
I'm a Cummins guy all the way. But these new 6.7s are great have 1 at the landscaping I work for and another one at a genral construction company What's weird is the one from the GC has had 3 engines in it 2 of them under 70k the glow plugs snapped off and another for the emissions stuff I forget that was a engine at well. Finally put a new one in it and it's a great truck. But never had a problem with the one it is deleted and it makes a hell of a difference
I'd pull out the crankshaft and see if the mains are straight if it ran hot or something the block may be warped. Or check to see if it had new motor mounts or something maybe someone jacked up the motor by the balancer
this happened to my brother.. same year model at 40ish thousand miles.. was pulling a horse trailer and the crank broke in front of motor and spun a bearing.. before or after idk.. but yea its rare.. my 6.7 is 130k with no problem and i hammer down
I work in the crankshaft industry. Specifically in a Metallurgy lab. We work hand and hand with our fatigue lab. There can be many reasons why a part will fatigue. the surface finish down to the core material reduction rate. that being said, most fatigue failures are caused by heat, surface finish or improper heat treatments. since the part is not discolored it is most likely one of the later two or dirt in the steel. without looking at the part in detail I would make a guess from the fracture pattern that I can see is the fracture started at or near the surface. all else is speculation.
I have felt with harmonic balancer failures in bigger diesel engines - 4000 hp & 20 cylinders - seems the failures manifest themselves in the second main from the rear and the second main from the front - I once had to deal with a harmonic balancer recall because the viscosity fluid in the balancer would solidify- I'd make sure to replace the harmonic balancer on any engine that had a rotating assembly failure... on the practical side I'd be looking at the carbon content of the steal - people want to cause that type of failure a casting flaw when in actuality it was cast with the improper receipy - casting steal is an on the fly procedure that sometimes doesn't work out right ... but that doesn't mean the foundry won't pour the iron anyway -- so it boils down to a quality control issue - I'd send that crank to a Meturlagerist lab and have the casting checked - then when it fails at 60k Ford would be way more friendly about standing behind their product.. crank shaft failures at 60k are unacceptable no matter how much time is involved...
Yes they are Bill
Other than a flaw in the metal I haven't seen anything like this in the dealer life. I have seen high pressure pumps lock engines up and cam shaft failure lock them up too. That's why I tell guys the ford esp is well worth the money.
Had a brand new long throw Crankshaft do this in a small block before... the casting process had included a few grains of errant casting sand into the metal of the crank and caused it to shear at half its rated strength. .. possible a cleanliness issue at the plant that made this crank? It would explain why it isn't a consistent issue with them.....
I got a used 2011 6.7 f350 and think that I have the same problem. I have worked for 20 years to get a truck like this and according to the dealership, I need a new motor. I only put about 6000 miles on it when I was driving home one day and my wife told me she heard a bang. I pulled over and opened the hood. There was a very loud knocking. My heart sank. I knew something was wrong. I shut her down and had her towed( the truck. Not my wife) to the dealership. They pulled the oil pan off and showed me the metal in the bottom and parts of bearings. From what you have explained in this video, it sounds like the same thing. Now I am not a master mechanic by any means. But my life long dream of having this truck just turned into a lawn ornament. I am going to have to pull it apart one day in the distant future to find out for sure if it did the same thing. Then sell the truck for parts just to pay it off.
By the way, I work well over 100 hours a week. I know of what you speak.
Well bill, if you don't know, not sure anyone does
out of balance flywheel...reverse torque the bolts off to make sure they wernt loose
Raced aluminum version of Chevy v8, also experienced in marine diesels. In racing broken crank seems to be related to spun bearing. Always happens at high rpm. Has to be align bored because bearing supports get moved, beat down. Aluminum block is never reliable again. Backup engine only. The only time I saw it in a marine engine, many years ago, the main bearings were out of align. Always out of align or caused by the break, I don't know. Align boring fixed it and rebuilt engine ran forever.
I would align bore main bearings, at least check bearing alignment.
I have a 7.3. If the new engine is reliable, maybe it's time for a new truck.
Metallurgy - inclusion in the steel led to a shear failure.
There are metallurgists that can look it over with a microscope and usually figure out the root cause. They have a lot of experience in looking over failed jet turbine parts. It would cost you $$$ though.
It broke right at the radial fillet. So it may have been a machining error. Did you take the time to check the alignment of the mains?
I work at a ford dealer, I've had 2 completely stock trucks do that. They both seemed to break just behind cylinder 2. It's a weak casting.
Why have you not looked at the front two pistons for signs of improper combustion from say a leaking injector ?
Line bore the block
I have watched many of your videos, enjoyed them all. Very impressed by the way you asked for viewer feedback on this engine failure. You could have just fixed the truck but because you actually care about what you are doing you want to know more. Some excellent feedback in these comments. Keep up the good work.
If I owned a Powerstroke, I'd have Bill do my work for sure. I bet he could put toothpaste back in a tube.
Robert Davis Archoil can put toothpaste back in a tube, then put the tube back in the box, and put the box back on the shelf at the store.
You said the 6.7 changed their firing order to #1 on the drivers side. If you meant that, that’s insanely incorrect.
My truck started running rough... I turned around drove 72 miles home ...put new starter in and all of a sudden a knocking started sounded like top back ...before I could shut it down it stopped and locked up ....now I'm thinking my crankshaft broke but won't know till I tear into it . I'll keep you informed👍👍
Hi, radiography would reveal defects and that's what this is. Added vehicle cost but worth it. I know a race engine builder that has all cranks and rotating parts radiographed.
One engine he was building went through 6 cranks before he found one with no defects.
Ah, in a perfect world. We wonder why planes crash and parts fail. Minimum quality assurance inspections equal failure. Look at the US Navy submarine program. ONE sub lost due to mechanical failure. That was more of a design flaw simply put..........
Thanks, Benton
Pay extra for diesel and pay extra for ever!
I see this hapened in ford transit 2014 2.2l engine,same thing,probbly production problem
had a 4.3 GM do the same thing in the same place. so it may be harmonic.
David Mcgregor I broke a 4.3 crank also
or belts to tight had 3 of these back in the 80s that the belts were over tightened
My buddies 2011 with 116k broke in the same spot
Watching 1am. Dad's been in surgery since 4pm. Thanks Bill for taking the edge off
Peace bro
Should this not be covered under Ford Warranty?
Great vids this guy on the videos seems honest and to the point in every vid good job and thank u
I worked with a guy thay had this same thing happen with about the same amount of miles. 2011 truck bone stock around 60000 miles. Ford investigated and concluded a casting flaw in the crank.
Bryan Kerns was it covered under warranty?
His truck was covered under warranty. This happend in 2012.
Same thing happened to a friend's truck. Same conclusion. It was also a 2011.
I freaking knew it. Damn flaws like that are hard to spot on the production line
Bryan: So these are cast crankshafts, not forged ?
Could also be a bad block. Check the bore alignment or at the least plastigauge the mains.
Better safe than sorry
Appears to be a casting flaw from 11-13 year model 6.7 fixed for 2014 and up models generally 6.7 are extremely reliable engine and trucks
Bill....great clip as always....just an idea, I know that the Duramax had /has issues with broken crankshaft in higher performance applications. The factory firing is 1-2-7-8-4-5-6-3 (odd on passanger side even on driver's side). The fix was a different cam (plus tuning) to change the firing order to 1-5-6-3-4-2-7-8. Not saying ford needs different cams since the 2011 6.7 powerstroke order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8......but maybe an idea since #6-5-4 are right in order and putting stress on the crank in the same place? Far as harmonics go, i have worked on MANY 6.2 and 6.5 GM engines in the HMMWV where the balancer was junk can caused the crank to fail ALWAYS at the 1st crank bearing. Seen this as well on C7 cats, 903 Cummins and several others. When the crank broke on the front, it was almost ALWAYS a bad harmonic balancer and lets face it, we dont look at the balancer very much, and more often than not only when something like this happens. Was there any damage to this guys balancer?
Or balancer full of dirt, grease or other material?
a few years ago we had a big rig snap the crankshaft and it still ran it was rebuilt not long before.
Are there different part numbers for the early 6.7L cranks? How about the harmonic balancer?
Hey Bill, I work at our family run business and we had a 2011 come in with a broken crankshaft also. It had broke straight down the middle but like you said, there was a decent dark spot along the crack indicating it’s been like that for some time. Located in Canada, this was sometime ago now but just found the video now. Excellent content! 👍🏻👍🏻
You're wrong, the number one cylinder location never moved, the others did. Right side 1234 left side 5678. Navistar was 1357 2468
Thank you for your 6.7L autopsy. You are 110% correct about the casting flaw. You can see that clearly. You need to save that and show Ford engineers. We may have a recall issue. Ford should pay for that repair. It is very peculiar as you say. Thanks again for your videos.
The old gm 6.5 diesels would rarely have that same problem. A balancer would fail and snap that crank right half in two.
Sounds like is a manufactures defect. Was it covered under warranty? You need to send it to a metallurgist.
I feel your pain with the Saturday is the only day I can get something done without people asking questions or customers calling.
My friend had a similar incident with his 2012 6.7. He did however have a fifth wheel that he was towing at the time. He was going onto the freeway when he said the crankshaft broke and sent oil all over the freeway. The truck had 22k miles on it and was covered under warranty.
It broke exactly where a modded duramax breaks, but this crank broke along two axis, gotta be a casting flaw, you would have felt a bad balancer when you took it off, that block and internals look spotless, the only thing that could have broke a stock motor is towing super heavy and getting pushed by super heavy trailer with exhaust breaks on or in low gear but looks like casting flaw to me
Definitely a manufacturing defect of some kind. Not the first time I have heard of or seen with my own 2 eyes a 6.7 with the crank that snapped almost clean off just near the front 2 cylinders. I honestly believe that Ford had a batch of motors...
Seen a 6.7 with a broke crank as Russ Milne Ford here in Detroit. The tech said it is a more common issue than you would think.
One of our ambulances (2012) had same thing happen. They were returning from a rescue cruising 55mph and they said same noise. I advised them to turn around and go to Ford dealership. Ford said they drove it in and it lost all gears. After disassembly they found the broken crankshaft and later they found the flexplate had broke as well which is why they lost transmission. They said it was stress from driving and gave similar quote for new/reman engine.
There have been similar failures in Corvair Flat 6 engines modified for homebuilt aircraft. What was found was that the fillet radius on the connecting rod journal was out of specification after the crank had been reground. The radius was insufficient and caused a fatigue failure in a similar fashion.
Not saying it a casting flaw but if it was a harmonic issue wouldn't there be evidence of that in the bearings?
#AlGoerLIED he said Florida would be under water by now. That's why they changed it from #globalwarming
Hey Bill I have been watching your channels for years and I just seen this video for the first time I just want to say thank you for doing a service to help people out then have spent thousands of dollars on diesel trucks to have nothing but trouble you're a saint and one heck of a diesel mechanic LOL
reminds me of my old 6.5 harmonic went bad and snaped like that
My brother had a drag car that did that once and it turned out to be a bad torque converter
You have a good job, Own a busy shop, Employe a bunch of great mechanics, and work 60+ hours a week because International/Ford builds diesel engines that break! Yes everybody that I know who own,s a powerstroke from the mid 90s 6 liter or bigger has hade major costy repairs. so far the only diesel that I seen hold up is a old 7.3 liter. I,m sorry but if I was going to buy a used truck, I would buy a Isuzu or a Cummins. PS Is there a good powerstroke and what year?
I had a Ford mechanic at a fleet dealer in 2013 tell me that the earlier 6.7s should be avoided if they had under 100,000 miles. He said they had a metallurgy problem that caused spun bearings and sometimes broken cranks. He said it only affected some trucks so if buying a used one buy it with over 100,000 miles on it because the problem always manifests before 100,000 miles. He had two in his shop with the same issue you are seeing.
I don't know my butt from a hole in the ground, but if the crank wasn't properly tempered, the hardness of the steel could have caused it to be brittle, and then crack / break. See if you can do a rockwell test on the broken area. (a good machine shop should have a rockwell tester. then check it against factory spec, (it's just an idea)
Must have been a Friday truck
My 2011 did the same thing at 67,xxx dealer replaced it sad they had seen several do it never had any problems after they put the updated engine in sold it at 240,xxx running strong
I've heard of these stories about these yammaha outboard engines where you have to replace the flywheel every 50 engine hours or else the harmonic balancer goes bad and breaks the crank.
Just on the 350's.. It's every 80 hours that are within the 3800-4200 rpm range.
recall or class action suite.
@ kleetus92 ... Exactly, I'm glad someone on here said it before me.
if i had to guess i would say it could be a poor tolerance on the engine or the crank.
also if you can i would send it to an automotive machinist before reassembly
I'd venture a guess at improperly forged.
Bad line bore?
I have seen this many times. I have worked on engines for 50 years. I pulled an engine apart that had the crank dropped on the end from a work bench. It was broke in the main journal just like what you see here. I have pulled 3 other engines apart that had impacts on the crank end. All were the same way. One of them was an old 455 olds wildcat engine. The man hit a piece of firewood dead center on the engine and broke the harmonic balancer. He had another one put back on but it started knocking about 1,000 miles later. Broke crank right at the same main.
It happened during start up and was idling, that says there was a low pressure, no pressure situation, that caused that.
Not to diesels but when a crank snaps like that its usually cause by too ignition timing (gas) , bad harmonics/balance job, and or spinning them too hard in the rpm. Seen a lot of guys making 800+hp on turbo stock block ford 351 windsors with a good tune up and low rpms. 2011 was the first year of the 6.7 so we know how first of any engine always isn't the best. Seems to be the same story for the 6.0, 6.4 ect.. First few years suck but I say a lot of 6.4 trucks on the road lately as prices have came down...idk if their 09+ or what. So tempted to buy one myself at the pricing but I wont.
Im not a power stroke owner but have followed your video because I appreciate your experience and knowledge, its good to hear that you say the 6.7 has been a reliable engine, Ford got a bad rap for the Navistar engines and its real hard to beat the reliability of that Cummins that Dodge uses. That is the ONLY good thing about a Dodge. While you were explaining I was saying to myself to replace the harmonic balancer and flywheel just to be sure. Good to hear you are. I agree since there have not been a string of failures like this that is just a fluke. a casting flaw that escaped the inspectors. I have worked in Aerospace for 32 years and shit happens to the best designed part.
Keep up the good work Bill, I sure as hell enjoy what you are doing
In fact, at my grand father's shop, we replaced one in an old man's truck that was 100% stock and VERY WELL taken care of. It only had like 65 or 75k on it when it split. And it was the same kind of situation as your customer. Idling to warm it up in the morning then a couple mins later the guys that HORRENDOUS banging noise and ran outside to shut it down.... Had to be a bad batch of cranks
I like the reassurance this just gave me that I did the right thing all these years and kept my 00 7.3. As I have gotten older I hate the noisy thing, but 307,500 miles tells me I did the right thing in popping a new turbo on a few months ago instead of selling it when the turbo failed. I was really leaning towards a 6.7 truck but I have a few family members and friends working at Ford that said don't lol! To date my 7.3 has had three water pumps and a transmission which was my fault. 100HP Program and a 40" gooseneck with anger behind the wheel:) 1 alternator 1 starter at 200+k.
Still think the 2015 and up 6.7s are pretty sound motors, but the 2012 and under seem questionable. I left Ford as a tech in 99 so I missed out on the good and the bad inside stuff I used to learn. Thanks Bill. Edit, I am a maintenance junky, but this trucks been to hell and back with me so its been used.
The one thing I learned in engineering school is round corners are good. Is there any notable difference in the radius between the bearing journal and counterweight on the broken crank and the new replacement? Sharp corners make for huge stress risers and with the timing gears on that end if the clearance on them isn't just right it could transfer a lot of extra force. Love the videos even as a Dodge guy. 😎