None. I'm Old School enough to want the best players to STAY on their teams, like Bird, Magic, Dirk, and Duncan. I know it's a business, but I root for the TEAM, not the individual player.
Agreed. He is the complete opposite of what the lakers symbolize. It's the glorification of stars in Los Angeles. Jokic is a dedicated athlete who wants to stay in the shadows with his family.
They could look towards Europe. Lonnie Walker IV for example is playing well in Zalgiris right now and he has an opt-out clause in his contract for if an NBA team comes knocking.
I'm ok with that as long as they improve the roster soon. It's not fair to him to be getting 50 point games, averaging a 30 point triple double, and theyre still losing to teams who were on a 16 game losing streak. smh.
@@akeme25Steph isn't close to joker. Steph had everything even Silver ref in his favor. Steph had best roster benches coaches. He's nowhere near joker. Ever
It’s actually funny, because I tried to find him in several other jerseys, like OKC, Boston, Knicks, etc, finally I did the Lakers, and of freakin course they had him in a lakers jersey 🤣🤣
Unfortunately I think that Jokic will be a nugget for a long time. His brothers are certified bandits here in Serbia and I am sure that they will try to milk every single dollar out of his contracts. And I am pretty sure that players can sign a better contracts on a team that drafted them.
As a Luka fan I would love to see the Luka-Jokic Duo. I think the best case would be when Kyrie retires in like 5-6 years, a mid-30s Jokic and a early 30s Luka pairing up for one last push at the trophy in Dallas. What a beautiful sight to imagine
Let's get Ant out of Minnesota asap. No disrespect to the fans, but the franchise has a history of wasting major star talent. Send him to the Rockets (biased), and the team goes from elite defensive squad that needs to get their offense together to legit contenders.
Jimmy Butler should go to Boston and become a 6th man and get a ring like Mitch Richmond and Glen Rice Sr. did at the end of the careers, this from a Lakers fan..
I feel like that Zion move is gonna be happening any minute. It really should. Both sides of that need a fresh start. Get him somewhere where the food sucks. lol
Watching what is happening to Jokic now would be like watching MJ, Magic, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, LeBron, or Kobe only get one ring because of lack of talent around them. I want to see him with a true number two option at some point. My pick would Devin Booker. He is a great all around player that works hard and is still under 30. I bet they could get 2-3 championships together.
Devin Booker or Jayson Tatum would be my pick. Jayson would be better because he has all the positives of D-Book and has the defensive versatility to cover up for Jokic and even switch on to bigs
Mj is probably the best example of why a player shouldn't necessarily be loyal to a franchise. He was the director of operations of the wizards. Agreed to play to help the team and got stabbed in the back for his efforts by ownership
@night6724 he agreed to help the team as a player per the owners request with the agreement to get more control and more ownership. The owner literally stabbed him in the back after he fulfilled his part. Mj wasn't a good owner certainly. But it just goes show you that corporations don't value your loyalty. Down side in the sports world is fans do value loyalty. So it's conflicting in that regard. But if you drop dead today your company will have your job posted tomorrow and won't miss you.
@ that may have been scummy but what does loyalty have to do with it? He was with the wizards as president for one season then unretired. Personally I think he should’ve avoided the court again, but he wasn’t president of the Bulls and they made him do that. Jordan drafted Kwame Brown over future stars Tyson Chandler or Pau Gasol
@night6724 he did was his organization asked. And was betrayed for it. So he showed commitment and loyalty and it was not reciprocated. You could argue the same with the bulls. Little man with power, stated he was going to fire the coach regardless, even if he won 82 games and won a chip. In arguably won it the dumbest gm decisions ever. The bulls were unlikely to win in 99. But firing a coach who delivered results because of your ego is silly. Again showing that teams don't value loyalty to players, coaches or fans for that matter
@ okay but again it wasn’t like he was a wizards legend. Sure it was a scummy thing but he wasn’t Wes Unseld. As for Krause, it could be argued he could’ve stretched the run out, but if you honestly look at those teams, they were running on fumes. Rodman was washed and retaining the bench wasn’t an option. Scottie Pippen also showed to be iffy as a true 1 and Jordan had already retired once. It made some sense to hit the reset even if Krause went about it the wrong way. I mean if you want a more egregious example of a cut throat front office I’d say Ainge is a better example. He traded Garnett and Pierce when it became clear their window was shut in favor of rebuilding the Celtics and then traded IT for Kyrie when IT got hurt and the C’s didn’t disclose the details to him.
Jonny hope you see this, you should do a video about “what if free throws didn’t exist” there has been a lot of narratives told ignoring the impact on refs and I’m curious to see the different outcomes. Doesn’t need to be decades but at least a couple of series to make a 10 minute video and bring up how you feel about the outcome. I know you’re trying to make content that will get you the bread, and I know I’m not always here but if do this I’ll really appreciate it.
Selfishly i like to see players finish their career with the same team, but i understand that owners will give up on them in a heart beat. If it benefits a player to leave and it makes sense, i get it. As a fan i would like to see more loyalty from owners, i think it helps the league when you have rivalries i.e. (Lakers vs Celtics) Magic vs Bird. The argument of the GOAT sometimes comes down to the fact Michael Jordan stayed to win a championship and LeBron James left, over and over again....and yes Jordan did go to Washington, but he stuck it out to win with Chicago.
I think MJ was more competitive than Lebron. MJ wanted to beat people, to win. He stayed with his team, and they brought in some good players and a great coach, but MJ had to make it all work. He had to sacrifice, to lead, to take over, and to hold back, as appropriate. I think Lebron just wants the trappings of success, and there are a lot of players like that in our modern age (Zion, Ben Simmons, etc). We know Lebron tried to get Eric Spoelstra fired. If he had Phil or Pop, it would be the same. He had Ty Lue in Cleveland, who is seen as one of the best coaches now. But Lebron is not coachable, he wants to play his way, he wants control. He didn't just decide to leave Cleveland in 2010. He set up his last Cleveland contract to expire at the same time as Dwade and Bosh's, so they could all sign together. That was in 2007. So even back then he was planning to build a superteam. There's not anything morally wrong with wanting to play on a superteam with your buddies, but excuse us if we don't respect that lack of grind or competitiveness. The GOAT is a matter of respect. It isn't just stats or rings. It is greatness, and greatness comes from respect. And people don't respect Lebron. Because Lebron don't respect the game. He formed superteams, ran when it got hard, flops, stat pads, shows up his teammates, and uses his friends in the media to push his own propaganda. That doesn't make him a criminal, but no one respects that. So that is why he cannot be the GOAT, even if some people call him the GOAT. People respect MJ's legacy, they don't respect Lebron's legacy. Many think Lebron ruined the game, or at least sabotaged it for his own gain. You can even see it when Lebron's friends try to go back and poke holes in MJ's legacy. They know Lebron doesn't measure up. But every nit they pick at MJ, can cut back on Lebron twice as hard, so there is no hope for them.
I wouldn't be shocked if jokic became to denver what kareem was to the bucks. The star that gets you your first championship before going to another team and winning more there. For example if jokic were to make a move to Dallas or even Milwaukee i could see him having more success there and when you see hea a 3 or 4 time champion we have to remind ourselves where his first ring came from
I think Jimmy Butler's on the last year of his contract, so him going to the Warriors could happen. The question is, would the Warriors be able to pay him with a sizable-realistic deal? If he were to go, I'd say that the Warriors should only offer Jimmy a three-year-deal with two years being mandatory and the third being a player option.
I agree that a player should move if their organization "betrays" them and doesn't know how to build a team to achieve something. However, the most legendary players with the biggest legacies are usually the ones who stay true to their organization or at least don't hop around like a bunny and have a very short list of teams where they stayed for a long time. Like Russell, Wilt, West, Kareem, Bird, Magic, MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Steph, and so on. You have to give fans the chance to identify with their "heroes" and that is not done by changing teams every few years. When you think about Shaq, for example, he was a monster at Orlando and with the Lakers. After that his career was like "whatever" and I don't think any of the teams or fanbases that followed have a particular fondness of him. This is also what severely hurts the perception of LeBron for me, he just switched teams too much. If he hadn't won that one insane championship with Cleveland in my mind he would not even be in the conversation for a top 5 player of all time. It doesn't only matter _that_ you win a championship, it also matters how and with whom. For example, that one championship Dirk won with the Mavs will always be way more valuable to the organization and the fans than all the championships LeBron won except for that one with Cleveland. And if let's say Jokic switches teams five times in the next ~10 years to chase better teams and more rings to win like 2-3 more championships with "random" organizations I don't think it would benefit his legacy, I think it would even hurt it. This is also why great players of today and the 2010s who hopped around a lot, like Westbrook, Harden, Leonard, even Durant will eventually not be talked about much anymore, but people will always talk about Bird, Magic, MJ, Dirk, and Steph.
All those players who stayed with their teams and won chips had all star teammates. Jokic has never had an all star teammate. And just because Joker leaves Denver, doesn't mean he will turn into Lebron, jumping from team to team for the best situation. If he was going to leave, he'd probably make sure it was the right place to spend the rest of his career. Players don't get to choose the team they are drafted by. If the team takes him for granted, then he has every right to find a better situation. Joker winning the first and only chip for Denver, without an all star teammate, putting up crazy stats in the playoffs, and sweeping Lebron in the WCF, is on that Dirk level chip. He beat Booker and KD, ANT and the Wolves, and a Himmy led Heat team that beat the Celtics that beat the 76ers. People want to minimize it, but that was a run for the ages. But he has more in him.
Yeah, but they can still wait until their contracts are up, or when they have an option to leave. After all, Jimmy was the only one I said that I wanted to see elsewhere immediately. Jokic and Steph can wait a couple years, and I'd still be getting my wish.
Hartenstein monk maxey bane vando fox knecht lonzo toppin Powell Grady suggs white 3j are all guys I'd like to see paired w joker. Just 2 of them would be scary
Jamal stays catching strays despite him being an absolute stud in his healthy championship run. Shame he's never healthy though and only pulls it together vs the lakers xD
Sure, but the point is about him being a 2. He could be a 3rd best player on a championship team by today's standards. LeBron won with Wade and Kyrie, Durant won with Steph, Tatum won with Brown.... and Jokic won with Murray. It's just not the same.
He was great that run. No one can take that away from him. But if he could play like that every playoffs, then Denver would have not 1, not 2, not 3... The problem is not that run, but that he will never be that guy again.
i think its more fun to think abt players who should retire as “lifers” than ones who should swap teams tatum for example will probably never not be a celtic (cuz kobe was never not a laker) same with victor wembanyama and the spurs (cuz theyre the spurs lol)
@malafakka8530 sports is a very peculiar workplace, it's not a war or a battle in the literal sense but teams are supposed to be competing against each other, that's why I don't like the switching sides thing but hey, fun fact, If I'm not mistaken it was a Greek by the name of Alcibiades, who switches sides in the Peloponnese War three times, he ended up exiled in Persia and dying there soon after.
@@Fixundfertig1 sure, but looking for greener pastures is natural for humans, and sometimes that just can't be done where you add currently. You can't expect a player to stay loyal to a team that would probably trade them I'd the right package came along
@@Fixundfertig1 Sports organizations are corporations. They are godless, anti-human, misery factories. If every owner were good, then I'd say players should stay where they are. But most owners suck, and the Nuggets owner definitely sucks.
@@mr.crispyfriedchicken3946sure but there is a line. Exact Jokic has been loyal to nuggets, won them a ring and has nothing more to prove them. He’s also going to be in the second half of his career and won’t be as effective in a few years Lebron James left Cleveland in his prime and despite the cries of having no help the reality was James’ teams weren’t nearly as bad as people say and ignore how terrible the east was in general.
Jokic needs to stay with the Denver Nuggets. To much jumpin-around in NBA. Better he plays an entire career with the team that drafted him and become the face of the franchise long after his career is over. But the Nuggets could invest more in him by aquiring support players that can maintain the team. Super teams is not what is needed, but solid players that can get the Nuggets to be a championship team for some time. They will never get a franchise player again like Jokic so investing in there team would now be the time.
I never thought I’d see a situation where Steph is being surrounded by a bad Front Office. The 2023 and 2024 season had some really bad decisions by GSW GMs.
Steph? STEPH??? Steph and Draymond are the last vestiges of my generation of basketball players... The Star that gets drafted by his team, wins there and retires there... Magic, Bird, Kobe, Timmy, even MJ technically failed the test, no way.
Nah, allow Curry, Luka, and the Joker to cement their legacies with 1 team. They are always respected more that way, and I don't Jokic needs more championships to be taken more seriously in the GOAT conversation, not when everyone is clear he has zero All Star help in Denver. It would be another thing if he was constantly pairing up with other superstars like Lebron and Durant have done, but that isn't the case.
1:16 that's not fun. What is fun is seeing them in completely different situations than they had prior. Like kobe wo Shaq. We never saw prime mj wo pip. Curry wo a stacked deck or superteams. That's why Kobe was way more fun to watch hes more definite.
The only ones that actually matter is jokic, giannis, butler, mitchell, luka, ant, tatum or brown, fox or sabonis. Any of these guys traded to a new team can make instant contenders. If the stay they may never win a ring and if they have 1 already they might never reach the finals again
Yeah, I get that. I said 5 or 6 years ago that Paul George might end up becoming an Adrian Dantley, Alex English or Mark Aguire type of player, in the sense that he was a legitimate star, but he'll almost never be talked about 30 years later because he didn't win anything. Currently I'm loving the way that one is aging.
Sure, but I would argue that most guys at that age are defensively liabilities. It would take an adjustment for him for sure. Ray Allen had to adjust too... the question is if Steph can.
Sorry Jonny, I disagree. Loyalty is (good) for the league as a fan. You go to watch two teams versus one another in the eighties and nineties. You knew who the stars were. Besides Jokic and Gianni's. It's not like that anymore.
Unfortunately, Jimmy is in ring chasing territory now. Winning a ring with Miami means way more than one with GS or Denver. He also only really fits with Houston, but he won’t put them over the top
he can still play as a 2nd or 3rd star, the ring is still valuable. It's not like he's Gary Payton in Heat or Glen Rice in LA type of old and low production.
@owensmith2137 I deleted the previous comment. I typed that all out without realizing I was responding to the wrong comment. lol. The comment I meant to send that to was about Anthony Edwards and the TWolves.
I think even LeBron fans might admit that their guy aint worth that at this stage. lol. Only way that could happen is if Jokic DEMANDED a trade, and the Lakers would still have to send Bron and AD. lol I would selfishly love Jokic in the purple and gold though....
@jonnyarnett haha I'm with you on that. Although I sometimes wonder Bron's value for the simplistic reason of marketing. I wonder how much a franchise is willing to tank their chances at a title just to get the Kardashian of the nba
4:34 that's your problem w how you perceive him 4:47 this right here is a you problem. I'd love a simple comparison of value on the court between him and curry. You onow joker is universes ahead but you keep falling back on rings lol. Was tatum better than everyone last year?? Gl bro. Steph was never best player any ring season either or most impressive player. Again just watch your kg Timmy video
@@malafakka8530 Because they should have enough self respect and loyalty to try and win where they are and not be a coward like Lebron or Kevin Durant. They owe it to the fans and themselves. The worst part of the modern NBA are these childish, entitled, weak-minded players.
@clevisbernier8973 That's the ideal, nothing more. The possibility exists, and therefore, it is only logical that players will eventually make use of it. It's been a reality in European football for decades. I am honestly amazed that it took the US this long to have something similar happen. I understand the idea of competitiveness, but it is what it is.
@@malafakka8530 It's what men with good character do. Jokic is staying because he is a man of good character and not an entitled brat like these american kids. The NBA has a serious immaturity problem. The players are immature and so are the fans. The opinion of this video is a prime example of this. WE don't want weak minded quitters as pro athletes. We want strong minded men.
2:50 this guy deserves nothing. He's a silver spoon baby that had literally everything 2:58 he got outplayed by harden shcroeder Powell all while having vastly better rosters lmao. Always sugarcoating this guy
3:49 ofc lol. Only curry fans glaze hypothetical insane help for him like this lol. Nvm his historic benches and 12 deep rosters his entire prime. Imagine joker or Luka w 5 legit starters just chilling on their benches lol
I'd like to see LeBron play for a prison basketball team. After all, he's cheated the game almost his whole career and, well, he does love a "diddy party".
Jokic in his Luka phase lmao Putting up amazing numbers for close wins or losses. Nuggets need to get it together to sustain their window especially with how much the west improved again.
Tatum should go to the Lakers once Bron retires. Trae should go to San Antonio once Chris Paul retires. Ant should go to Miami once Jimmy retires. And last but not least, Luka needs to go to Denver.
Bro come on now u used 3 hof players past their prime start of video make a case for leaving their teams jordan Nash Hakeem past primes no one would complain about them leaving teams after what all 3 did for organizations
Freaking Jamal Murray averaged 32ppg on 50/40/90 making all the biggest shots bar one. The disrespect to freaking Jamal Murray and Khris Middleton from these nba channels is sickening
If Murray kept playing like that nobody would say a thing. He had that good run and they won the championship, since then he hasn't been good. He's making 52mil a year and averaging 18ppg on 40% shooting this year, that's not a second option for a championship team
@leptonparticle238 yep, what's Kyrie's numbers? Murray is injured so is Middleton. These team doctors ruined them by rushing them back so they can go b2b championships. Therefore, ruining them. Kyrie has never dropped in a series 32ppg on 50/40/90 with 10 assists in any series or throughout the playoffs. What more help does Jokic need? Mind you Kyrie has yet to be an Allstar in the West. Jamal would have been a multiple allstar in the East. I think, a lot of people don't understand regular season is different from postseason. Jokic couldn't win without Murray 2 years in a row. Jamal hits the biggest of shots more than Jokic that's why you see end of games it's between the two and they deliver
@@jonnyarnett the premise of your video. Which I think you do great work, not a dig on your content. I think star hopping can be fun but I think legacy players should stay put. We’ve added enough fun wacky stuff to the league as is, it isnt always greener grass. Lets uphold some tradition in a few players at least.
I respect that, but for me it depends on the context. IMO it's the responsibility of the General Manager to provide a supporting cast thats capable of competing with their star player.... and if they can't do that, and a star is wasting years of his greatness away, then I think he should have every right to find a better situation.
@@jonnyarnett I agree. I can speak from this perspective - I grew up on MJ being the 🐐 and Kobe becoming the 2nd coming. Kobe is my favorite (Lakers fan) I’ve taken a liking to Steph, I regard him very high. My favorite current star by far. Lebron is a player I’ve never seen as the bestq although he is great and its because (his antics), he’s yet to organically harvest a team and get them to the finish line, and his game just was never appealing to me on the eyes. That aside we’ve seen some fun trades since he’s become the face, but we’ve also witnessed some teams that had no business ever being constructed. The idea of him teaming up with Steph is laughable and disrespectful to the fans, whether they realize or not We’ve sacrificed the soul and essence of the game that makes it most competitive and traded it for “entertainment” for casuals at that. Savants of the game are in limbo right now watching the failing product. Players should have the freedom to move around for sure because thats fair, the organization doesnt stay loyal forever for some players and neither should they. However players like Steph and even Jokic should keep their asses still. Jimmy Butler’s already on his 4th team so who cares lol (Sorry for the long response my guy, im passionate) 😆
Who is a star player that you’d like to see in a different jersey before he retires?
Tyler Herro
GIANNIS playing A.GORDON role with JOKIC
None. I'm Old School enough to want the best players to STAY on their teams, like Bird, Magic, Dirk, and Duncan.
I know it's a business, but I root for the TEAM, not the individual player.
If SGA doesn't establish a dynasty at OKC, would love to see him play in a bigger market and get a ring or two in a place like NY or Miami
Luka with our Lakers 🙏🏼
😂 I don't ever want to see a Lakers jersey on Jokic. Ever.
A laker fan?
@@leptonparticle238 No, I hate the Lakers. I like Jokic though.
Agreed. He is the complete opposite of what the lakers symbolize. It's the glorification of stars in Los Angeles. Jokic is a dedicated athlete who wants to stay in the shadows with his family.
I just hate Lakers so I agree
Lakers fan joker fan. Agreed
Jokic in lakers gear is a cursed image considering their history
Jokic joining LeBron to form the 2nd father-son duo in nba history
@@chrilpy😂😂😂
Joker already owns the Lakers, so it's a possibility. :D
I hope the Nuggets find a way to get Jokic a solid bench. Their bench is god awful.
Right, when you have a 36 yr old as your best bench player that’s a problem.
They could look towards Europe. Lonnie Walker IV for example is playing well in Zalgiris right now and he has an opt-out clause in his contract for if an NBA team comes knocking.
They won’t with Calvin Booth as their GM
@@chrilpy He is super incompetent
@@chrilpyFire the guy and bring back Tim Connelly
Late 30s Jokic pairing up with a mid 30s Luka for one last run would be amazing to watch
Just a reminder that Jokic is in his 10th season and still never had an all star teammate.
Steph curry and LeBron real quiet whenever we bring this up
That’s crazy at this point he’s right there with Hakeem, this guy is incredible.
Nah Jokic needs to stay in Denver imo, one of those entire career with the team that drafted him kinda guys.
I'm ok with that as long as they improve the roster soon. It's not fair to him to be getting 50 point games, averaging a 30 point triple double, and theyre still losing to teams who were on a 16 game losing streak. smh.
Him and Steph Curry
@@jonnyarnett If they don't improve the Roster, I definitely support him leaving in FA.
@@akeme25Steph isn't close to joker. Steph had everything even Silver ref in his favor. Steph had best roster benches coaches. He's nowhere near joker. Ever
@@rockysalvatore435 Yeah but he’s still one of those players that stayed on the same team he’s drafted. That’s what the OP was talking about.
As a Nuggets fan, I don’t want Jokic to EVER leave. Just send him help, that’s all.
Tell that to the Owners.
Get jokic on the Portland blazers (biased)
Biased too, but that actually might work. With Joker guys like Anferney, Sharp, and Grant may become so much better
Absolutely diabolical putting Jokic in a Lakers jersey lol
It’s actually funny, because I tried to find him in several other jerseys, like OKC, Boston, Knicks, etc, finally I did the Lakers, and of freakin course they had him in a lakers jersey 🤣🤣
One of my favorite youtubers hands down keep up the content...great to listen to after revising 💪💪
Unfortunately I think that Jokic will be a nugget for a long time. His brothers are certified bandits here in Serbia and I am sure that they will try to milk every single dollar out of his contracts. And I am pretty sure that players can sign a better contracts on a team that drafted them.
As a Luka fan I would love to see the Luka-Jokic Duo. I think the best case would be when Kyrie retires in like 5-6 years, a mid-30s Jokic and a early 30s Luka pairing up for one last push at the trophy in Dallas. What a beautiful sight to imagine
Let's get Ant out of Minnesota asap. No disrespect to the fans, but the franchise has a history of wasting major star talent. Send him to the Rockets (biased), and the team goes from elite defensive squad that needs to get their offense together to legit contenders.
Too early he has a good team rn
Also dillon brooks should have gotten a tech against okc for almost potentially starting something with shai
Fr man and right when they made the wcf for the second time in history they trade their 2nd best player.
Ant is overrated
@@montyFRExactly I used to fill sorry for them but naw
As a die hard, lifelong Suns fan, I would love to see Bradley Beal off my team.
LOL
Thank you Jonny!
Jimmy Butler should go to Boston and become a 6th man and get a ring like Mitch Richmond and Glen Rice Sr. did at the end of the careers, this from a Lakers fan..
What about Jokic on Golden State?? That season could be the last year of my life and I’d be happy 😅
Nope
Curry fans always trying to associate w him superior players 😂😂😂 you guys know joker is 10 x better w 10x worse help and privilege
Joker doesn't need to carry thos superteam divas
The Editing is 🔥🔥🔥
Don’t ever put Jokic in a damn Lakers jersey again.
Other than that, I your content.
You’re the GOAT of basketball breakdown’s.
Deuces!
I’d agree with Jimmy butler, but I’d also go with Donovan Mitchell, Lebron James, and Zion Williamson.
I feel like that Zion move is gonna be happening any minute. It really should. Both sides of that need a fresh start. Get him somewhere where the food sucks. lol
@ maybe a team like charlotte that wants to accelerate their rebuild like the Chicago bulls did in 2022.
I’d like to see Devin Booker in San Antonio!! 🤛🏽
Luka jokic would be unhinged
Watching what is happening to Jokic now would be like watching MJ, Magic, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, LeBron, or Kobe only get one ring because of lack of talent around them. I want to see him with a true number two option at some point. My pick would Devin Booker. He is a great all around player that works hard and is still under 30. I bet they could get 2-3 championships together.
Devin Booker or Jayson Tatum would be my pick. Jayson would be better because he has all the positives of D-Book and has the defensive versatility to cover up for Jokic and even switch on to bigs
Have a great morning!!
Mj is probably the best example of why a player shouldn't necessarily be loyal to a franchise. He was the director of operations of the wizards. Agreed to play to help the team and got stabbed in the back for his efforts by ownership
Why? First off he was over 40 and secondly he was a mediocre executive and his tenure as the Hornets owners further proved.
@night6724 he agreed to help the team as a player per the owners request with the agreement to get more control and more ownership. The owner literally stabbed him in the back after he fulfilled his part. Mj wasn't a good owner certainly. But it just goes show you that corporations don't value your loyalty. Down side in the sports world is fans do value loyalty. So it's conflicting in that regard. But if you drop dead today your company will have your job posted tomorrow and won't miss you.
@ that may have been scummy but what does loyalty have to do with it? He was with the wizards as president for one season then unretired. Personally I think he should’ve avoided the court again, but he wasn’t president of the Bulls and they made him do that. Jordan drafted Kwame Brown over future stars Tyson Chandler or Pau Gasol
@night6724 he did was his organization asked. And was betrayed for it. So he showed commitment and loyalty and it was not reciprocated. You could argue the same with the bulls. Little man with power, stated he was going to fire the coach regardless, even if he won 82 games and won a chip. In arguably won it the dumbest gm decisions ever. The bulls were unlikely to win in 99. But firing a coach who delivered results because of your ego is silly. Again showing that teams don't value loyalty to players, coaches or fans for that matter
@ okay but again it wasn’t like he was a wizards legend. Sure it was a scummy thing but he wasn’t Wes Unseld. As for Krause, it could be argued he could’ve stretched the run out, but if you honestly look at those teams, they were running on fumes. Rodman was washed and retaining the bench wasn’t an option. Scottie Pippen also showed to be iffy as a true 1 and Jordan had already retired once. It made some sense to hit the reset even if Krause went about it the wrong way.
I mean if you want a more egregious example of a cut throat front office I’d say Ainge is a better example. He traded Garnett and Pierce when it became clear their window was shut in favor of rebuilding the Celtics and then traded IT for Kyrie when IT got hurt and the C’s didn’t disclose the details to him.
Jonny hope you see this, you should do a video about “what if free throws didn’t exist” there has been a lot of narratives told ignoring the impact on refs and I’m curious to see the different outcomes.
Doesn’t need to be decades but at least a couple of series to make a 10 minute video and bring up how you feel about the outcome.
I know you’re trying to make content that will get you the bread, and I know I’m not always here but if do this I’ll really appreciate it.
Selfishly i like to see players finish their career with the same team, but i understand that owners will give up on them in a heart beat. If it benefits a player to leave and it makes sense, i get it. As a fan i would like to see more loyalty from owners, i think it helps the league when you have rivalries i.e. (Lakers vs Celtics)
Magic vs Bird. The argument of the GOAT sometimes comes down to the fact Michael Jordan stayed to win a championship and LeBron James left, over and over again....and yes Jordan did go to Washington, but he stuck it out to win with Chicago.
I think MJ was more competitive than Lebron. MJ wanted to beat people, to win. He stayed with his team, and they brought in some good players and a great coach, but MJ had to make it all work. He had to sacrifice, to lead, to take over, and to hold back, as appropriate.
I think Lebron just wants the trappings of success, and there are a lot of players like that in our modern age (Zion, Ben Simmons, etc). We know Lebron tried to get Eric Spoelstra fired. If he had Phil or Pop, it would be the same. He had Ty Lue in Cleveland, who is seen as one of the best coaches now. But Lebron is not coachable, he wants to play his way, he wants control.
He didn't just decide to leave Cleveland in 2010. He set up his last Cleveland contract to expire at the same time as Dwade and Bosh's, so they could all sign together. That was in 2007. So even back then he was planning to build a superteam. There's not anything morally wrong with wanting to play on a superteam with your buddies, but excuse us if we don't respect that lack of grind or competitiveness.
The GOAT is a matter of respect. It isn't just stats or rings. It is greatness, and greatness comes from respect. And people don't respect Lebron. Because Lebron don't respect the game. He formed superteams, ran when it got hard, flops, stat pads, shows up his teammates, and uses his friends in the media to push his own propaganda. That doesn't make him a criminal, but no one respects that. So that is why he cannot be the GOAT, even if some people call him the GOAT.
People respect MJ's legacy, they don't respect Lebron's legacy. Many think Lebron ruined the game, or at least sabotaged it for his own gain. You can even see it when Lebron's friends try to go back and poke holes in MJ's legacy. They know Lebron doesn't measure up. But every nit they pick at MJ, can cut back on Lebron twice as hard, so there is no hope for them.
@@shorewallI agree with you
Seeing Tatum somewhere else would be actually really fun to watch
Jokic in a Celtics jersey looks incredibly ILLEGAL.
That would need to be nullified under anti-trust law. :D
I wouldn't be shocked if jokic became to denver what kareem was to the bucks. The star that gets you your first championship before going to another team and winning more there. For example if jokic were to make a move to Dallas or even Milwaukee i could see him having more success there and when you see hea a 3 or 4 time champion we have to remind ourselves where his first ring came from
Yeah, there are a lot of similarities between Joker and Kareem.
I think Jimmy Butler's on the last year of his contract, so him going to the Warriors could happen. The question is, would the Warriors be able to pay him with a sizable-realistic deal? If he were to go, I'd say that the Warriors should only offer Jimmy a three-year-deal with two years being mandatory and the third being a player option.
I agree that a player should move if their organization "betrays" them and doesn't know how to build a team to achieve something. However, the most legendary players with the biggest legacies are usually the ones who stay true to their organization or at least don't hop around like a bunny and have a very short list of teams where they stayed for a long time. Like Russell, Wilt, West, Kareem, Bird, Magic, MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Steph, and so on. You have to give fans the chance to identify with their "heroes" and that is not done by changing teams every few years.
When you think about Shaq, for example, he was a monster at Orlando and with the Lakers. After that his career was like "whatever" and I don't think any of the teams or fanbases that followed have a particular fondness of him. This is also what severely hurts the perception of LeBron for me, he just switched teams too much. If he hadn't won that one insane championship with Cleveland in my mind he would not even be in the conversation for a top 5 player of all time.
It doesn't only matter _that_ you win a championship, it also matters how and with whom. For example, that one championship Dirk won with the Mavs will always be way more valuable to the organization and the fans than all the championships LeBron won except for that one with Cleveland. And if let's say Jokic switches teams five times in the next ~10 years to chase better teams and more rings to win like 2-3 more championships with "random" organizations I don't think it would benefit his legacy, I think it would even hurt it.
This is also why great players of today and the 2010s who hopped around a lot, like Westbrook, Harden, Leonard, even Durant will eventually not be talked about much anymore, but people will always talk about Bird, Magic, MJ, Dirk, and Steph.
All those players who stayed with their teams and won chips had all star teammates. Jokic has never had an all star teammate. And just because Joker leaves Denver, doesn't mean he will turn into Lebron, jumping from team to team for the best situation. If he was going to leave, he'd probably make sure it was the right place to spend the rest of his career. Players don't get to choose the team they are drafted by. If the team takes him for granted, then he has every right to find a better situation.
Joker winning the first and only chip for Denver, without an all star teammate, putting up crazy stats in the playoffs, and sweeping Lebron in the WCF, is on that Dirk level chip. He beat Booker and KD, ANT and the Wolves, and a Himmy led Heat team that beat the Celtics that beat the 76ers. People want to minimize it, but that was a run for the ages. But he has more in him.
Giannis to GSW would be FIRE!!
I honestly would love to see Embiid and Dlo play together…..for the Shanghai Sharks
Only one maybe I see likely is Butler, majority of the guys here can't be traded since their $$$ are too big in the current CBA.
Yeah, but they can still wait until their contracts are up, or when they have an option to leave. After all, Jimmy was the only one I said that I wanted to see elsewhere immediately. Jokic and Steph can wait a couple years, and I'd still be getting my wish.
I would kind of love to see jaylen brown in golden state, he's like a younger jimmy butler and is a good defender
Hartenstein monk maxey bane vando fox knecht lonzo toppin Powell Grady suggs white 3j are all guys I'd like to see paired w joker. Just 2 of them would be scary
Jamal stays catching strays despite him being an absolute stud in his healthy championship run. Shame he's never healthy though and only pulls it together vs the lakers xD
Sure, but the point is about him being a 2. He could be a 3rd best player on a championship team by today's standards. LeBron won with Wade and Kyrie, Durant won with Steph, Tatum won with Brown.... and Jokic won with Murray. It's just not the same.
😂😂😂Man that one run.
@@Bigedub101 Jamal literally just hates the Lakers
@@mr.crispyfriedchicken3946 had us thinking he was kobe 2002
He was great that run. No one can take that away from him. But if he could play like that every playoffs, then Denver would have not 1, not 2, not 3... The problem is not that run, but that he will never be that guy again.
Jokers 1 ring is worth 10 x all of LBJs rings combined
i think its more fun to think abt players who should retire as “lifers” than ones who should swap teams
tatum for example will probably never not be a celtic (cuz kobe was never not a laker)
same with victor wembanyama and the spurs (cuz theyre the spurs lol)
I'd say the opposite is true, loyalty is underappreciated, fans, true fans, can't change they beloved franchise so why would do their players do?
Do you not have the freedom to change your workplace? It's normal.
@malafakka8530 sports is a very peculiar workplace, it's not a war or a battle in the literal sense but teams are supposed to be competing against each other, that's why I don't like the switching sides thing but hey, fun fact, If I'm not mistaken it was a Greek by the name of Alcibiades, who switches sides in the Peloponnese War three times, he ended up exiled in Persia and dying there soon after.
@@Fixundfertig1 sure, but looking for greener pastures is natural for humans, and sometimes that just can't be done where you add currently. You can't expect a player to stay loyal to a team that would probably trade them I'd the right package came along
@@Fixundfertig1 Sports organizations are corporations. They are godless, anti-human, misery factories. If every owner were good, then I'd say players should stay where they are. But most owners suck, and the Nuggets owner definitely sucks.
@@mr.crispyfriedchicken3946sure but there is a line. Exact Jokic has been loyal to nuggets, won them a ring and has nothing more to prove them. He’s also going to be in the second half of his career and won’t be as effective in a few years
Lebron James left Cleveland in his prime and despite the cries of having no help the reality was James’ teams weren’t nearly as bad as people say and ignore how terrible the east was in general.
Jokic needs to stay with the Denver Nuggets. To much jumpin-around in NBA. Better he plays an entire career with the team that drafted him and become the face of the franchise long after his career is over. But the Nuggets could invest more in him by aquiring support players that can maintain the team. Super teams is not what is needed, but solid players that can get the Nuggets to be a championship team for some time. They will never get a franchise player again like Jokic so investing in there team would now be the time.
I don't want to see superstars on superteams anymore.
The Celtics selling a Celtic champ for a rebuild to The Nets ......
Nets fans: PTSD
🏀
I never thought I’d see a situation where Steph is being surrounded by a bad Front Office. The 2023 and 2024 season had some really bad decisions by GSW GMs.
Imagine if they included Podz and got the deal for Lauri.
LeBron and Steff together in the same NBA team.
Steph? STEPH??? Steph and Draymond are the last vestiges of my generation of basketball players... The Star that gets drafted by his team, wins there and retires there... Magic, Bird, Kobe, Timmy, even MJ technically failed the test, no way.
Nah, allow Curry, Luka, and the Joker to cement their legacies with 1 team. They are always respected more that way, and I don't Jokic needs more championships to be taken more seriously in the GOAT conversation, not when everyone is clear he has zero All Star help in Denver. It would be another thing if he was constantly pairing up with other superstars like Lebron and Durant have done, but that isn't the case.
1:16 that's not fun. What is fun is seeing them in completely different situations than they had prior. Like kobe wo Shaq. We never saw prime mj wo pip. Curry wo a stacked deck or superteams. That's why Kobe was way more fun to watch hes more definite.
I’d like to see Lebron in a jersey other than the Lakers.
🎉❤
Embid in Washington Wizards
The only ones that actually matter is jokic, giannis, butler, mitchell, luka, ant, tatum or brown, fox or sabonis. Any of these guys traded to a new team can make instant contenders. If the stay they may never win a ring and if they have 1 already they might never reach the finals again
Saying if Tatum and Brown stay they won't reach the finals again is an absolutely insane take
Get Jokic on Partizan (biased)
LeBron, anywhere other than the Lakers. Ideally the Celtics.
LeBron in Boston would be funny as shit 😂
Jokic to the Lakers is setting him free? WTF?
Not Jokic, please.
Nuggets fan?
Paul George
Yeah, I get that. I said 5 or 6 years ago that Paul George might end up becoming an Adrian Dantley, Alex English or Mark Aguire type of player, in the sense that he was a legitimate star, but he'll almost never be talked about 30 years later because he didn't win anything. Currently I'm loving the way that one is aging.
Joker in any other jersey is a blasphemy.
~ I'm not even a Nugget's fan.
Get one of the top bois in Toronto or Detroit😂🙏🙏
When you have been on 4 different teams it must be you that’s the problem
LeBron in China? 😂 Just kidding...
I dont think curry will be as effective as you think as an offball shooter also his defense by that point might be an huge problem..
Sure, but I would argue that most guys at that age are defensively liabilities. It would take an adjustment for him for sure. Ray Allen had to adjust too... the question is if Steph can.
Whats that start with jordan. Hahahhaha or Hakeem
Ah, so Divine Right because of their careers. Nah, that's called being a moocher.
Sorry Jonny, I disagree. Loyalty is (good) for the league as a fan. You go to watch two teams versus one another in the eighties and nineties. You knew who the stars were. Besides Jokic and Gianni's. It's not like that anymore.
Sorry Johnny Jokic will keep owning your lakers till hes 40, whether on Nuggets jersey or some other one.
Bro u start of wrong, when u mentioned MJ put in proper context why he went elsewhere,
Unfortunately, Jimmy is in ring chasing territory now. Winning a ring with Miami means way more than one with GS or Denver. He also only really fits with Houston, but he won’t put them over the top
@@jonnyarnett Jimmy is 35?
he can still play as a 2nd or 3rd star, the ring is still valuable. It's not like he's Gary Payton in Heat or Glen Rice in LA type of old and low production.
@owensmith2137 I deleted the previous comment. I typed that all out without realizing I was responding to the wrong comment. lol. The comment I meant to send that to was about Anthony Edwards and the TWolves.
@jonnyarnett Definitely looking forward to that 200k part 2!
2:30 ah yes bc this bum needs even more help. Hilarious
Giving this a dislike just because I saw Jokic on a lakers jersey. I need some eyebleach.
LEBRON without 2 stars.
TATUM on a bad team probably wont even make the play.offs.
Curry on CHARLOTE HORNETS without S.KERR system...
Jokic in a Lakers jersery made me physically sick. Please
never do this again
Honestly I think Steph is too much of a legend to play a late Ray Allen type of roll IMHO 🤔
I'm sure Ray Allen fans thought the same of Ray Allen in all fairness
@mr.crispyfriedchicken3946 Ray wasn't 2 time MVP face of the League
@@davincerica7232 you're right he was still a legend in his time though
Joker maxey 3j grady vando would break the league lol. He doesn't need much unlike all these guys.
Or imagine him w hartenstein maxey monk. Over lol
why the hell would joker team up w lebum🥴fake as goat
Trade Jokic for bron, and move AD to the 4. We'll see how lebron actually does with no help and how Jokic does with actual help
I think even LeBron fans might admit that their guy aint worth that at this stage. lol. Only way that could happen is if Jokic DEMANDED a trade, and the Lakers would still have to send Bron and AD. lol
I would selfishly love Jokic in the purple and gold though....
@jonnyarnett haha I'm with you on that. Although I sometimes wonder Bron's value for the simplistic reason of marketing. I wonder how much a franchise is willing to tank their chances at a title just to get the Kardashian of the nba
4:34 that's your problem w how you perceive him 4:47 this right here is a you problem. I'd love a simple comparison of value on the court between him and curry. You onow joker is universes ahead but you keep falling back on rings lol. Was tatum better than everyone last year?? Gl bro. Steph was never best player any ring season either or most impressive player. Again just watch your kg Timmy video
Ewww dude, seriously please never hint at Jokic going to the lakers ever again. Or Atleast not until the princess is long gone.
i would like to see lebron retire
"I'm not saying I necessarily want to see him leave because Steph's beloved in Golden State"..
Huh? Jonny Wordsalad strikes again..
The players are too entitles. They should try to win where they are and not move to a better team.
Why? Do you not change work whenever you want to?
@@malafakka8530 Because they should have enough self respect and loyalty to try and win where they are and not be a coward like Lebron or Kevin Durant. They owe it to the fans and themselves. The worst part of the modern NBA are these childish, entitled, weak-minded players.
@clevisbernier8973 That's the ideal, nothing more. The possibility exists, and therefore, it is only logical that players will eventually make use of it. It's been a reality in European football for decades. I am honestly amazed that it took the US this long to have something similar happen. I understand the idea of competitiveness, but it is what it is.
@@malafakka8530 It's what men with good character do. Jokic is staying because he is a man of good character and not an entitled brat like these american kids. The NBA has a serious immaturity problem. The players are immature and so are the fans. The opinion of this video is a prime example of this. WE don't want weak minded quitters as pro athletes. We want strong minded men.
@@malafakka8530 Only the weak do this. This men with character try to win wherever they are. We needs less weak players and less of their weak fans.
2:50 this guy deserves nothing. He's a silver spoon baby that had literally everything 2:58 he got outplayed by harden shcroeder Powell all while having vastly better rosters lmao. Always sugarcoating this guy
3:49 ofc lol. Only curry fans glaze hypothetical insane help for him like this lol. Nvm his historic benches and 12 deep rosters his entire prime. Imagine joker or Luka w 5 legit starters just chilling on their benches lol
I'd like to see LeBron play for a prison basketball team. After all, he's cheated the game almost his whole career and, well, he does love a "diddy party".
Lebron and retired.
Jokic in his Luka phase lmao
Putting up amazing numbers for close wins or losses. Nuggets need to get it together to sustain their window especially with how much the west improved again.
Tatum should go to the Lakers once Bron retires. Trae should go to San Antonio once Chris Paul retires. Ant should go to Miami once Jimmy retires. And last but not least, Luka needs to go to Denver.
You get a down vote for the abomination of having Jokic in a Lakers jersey in your thumbnail!
Bro come on now u used 3 hof players past their prime start of video make a case for leaving their teams jordan Nash Hakeem past primes no one would complain about them leaving teams after what all 3 did for organizations
Freaking Jamal Murray averaged 32ppg on 50/40/90 making all the biggest shots bar one.
The disrespect to freaking Jamal Murray and Khris Middleton from these nba channels is sickening
If Murray kept playing like that nobody would say a thing. He had that good run and they won the championship, since then he hasn't been good. He's making 52mil a year and averaging 18ppg on 40% shooting this year, that's not a second option for a championship team
@leptonparticle238 yep, what's Kyrie's numbers?
Murray is injured so is Middleton. These team doctors ruined them by rushing them back so they can go b2b championships. Therefore, ruining them.
Kyrie has never dropped in a series 32ppg on 50/40/90 with 10 assists in any series or throughout the playoffs.
What more help does Jokic need? Mind you Kyrie has yet to be an Allstar in the West. Jamal would have been a multiple allstar in the East.
I think, a lot of people don't understand regular season is different from postseason.
Jokic couldn't win without Murray 2 years in a row. Jamal hits the biggest of shots more than Jokic that's why you see end of games it's between the two and they deliver
Saying Jordan didn’t spend all of his time on chicago as if he retired and then played for the sub .500 wizards team to win a championship is wild 😭
Strong disagree.
Which one?
@@jonnyarnett the premise of your video. Which I think you do great work, not a dig on your content.
I think star hopping can be fun but I think legacy players should stay put. We’ve added enough fun wacky stuff to the league as is, it isnt always greener grass.
Lets uphold some tradition in a few players at least.
I respect that, but for me it depends on the context. IMO it's the responsibility of the General Manager to provide a supporting cast thats capable of competing with their star player.... and if they can't do that, and a star is wasting years of his greatness away, then I think he should have every right to find a better situation.
@@jonnyarnett I agree. I can speak from this perspective - I grew up on MJ being the 🐐 and Kobe becoming the 2nd coming. Kobe is my favorite (Lakers fan)
I’ve taken a liking to Steph, I regard him very high. My favorite current star by far. Lebron is a player I’ve never seen as the bestq although he is great and its because (his antics), he’s yet to organically harvest a team and get them to the finish line, and his game just was never appealing to me on the eyes.
That aside we’ve seen some fun trades since he’s become the face, but we’ve also witnessed some teams that had no business ever being constructed. The idea of him teaming up with Steph is laughable and disrespectful to the fans, whether they realize or not
We’ve sacrificed the soul and essence of the game that makes it most competitive and traded it for “entertainment” for casuals at that. Savants of the game are in limbo right now watching the failing product.
Players should have the freedom to move around for sure because thats fair, the organization doesnt stay loyal forever for some players and neither should they. However players like Steph and even Jokic should keep their asses still. Jimmy Butler’s already on his 4th team so who cares lol
(Sorry for the long response my guy, im passionate) 😆