Sadly, cynicism and pessimism usually wins out on social media. I get enough of that in my life without choosing to indulge in it on TH-cam. I love listening to the Lorecast along with Mastering Dungeons, Sly Flourish, and others that have a less negative slant. Thanks for being here!
I'm running Descent into Avernus, and I get people think it's a bad adventure, but as someone who loved the Hells, and the Blood War in general, I think it's great
BG3 supposedly ended the campaign where they did specifically so you would get spells like Chain Lightning but not things like Limited Wish. As a DM, I'm often looking at the math. You got +1 to hit, or +1 attack, but the average monsters AC or HP just took a corresponding jump as well. It all comes out in the wash, so was there really a point? But most of the people I've played with don't see it that way. To them, it feels like Effort in = Reward out. That feels fair and gives them control over their characters progression, that isn't what loot the DM happens to provide. They like flipping through new spells or new feats to find what they're going to take next, plotting out the advancement all the way to level 20 even if they're only level 5 and it's highly unlikely they're going to get to level 20. Think about things in design terms, you start to think logically about a system and most people just deal with it a feeling level. It doesn't need to make logical sense, if it feels fun. And for many, it's fun to think about what you're going to do when you level up.
One replacement for Stun that I've been thinking of which is similar to Dael's suggestion is to add Clocks to bosses. If the Party stuns the boss, or does any other high level save or die effect that instantly kills, banishes, or defeats the big bad, instead of suffering that effect the Boss Fight Clock loses one tick. The airship carrying the doomsday device stalls and stays on the runway for another round. The shift to Phase 2 of the fight is delayed one round. The summoning ritual that pulls Tiamat into the mortal realms is derailed as one of the human sacrifices gets loose and now there's an NPC running around that the party can protect and delay the cult's plans. If the Players get stunned/paralyzed, they could lose a turn... or they could be selfish and let the Boss Clock go up one tick to end the effect. Or if the player would be stunned in a non boss fight they can choose to not be stunned, and the DM gets to spawn another 1d4 or 1d6 4e/MCDM minions that take one successful attack roll to kill. Edit: For all the Monk/Stunning Strike stans out there I should also noted that I replace Stunning strike and most of the Monk Base Class abilities that cost Ki points with a buffed version of Flurry of Blows that costs more but has the monk roll their Martial Arts die and make that many unarmed strikes against a single adjacent target. Also higher level monks get a bunch of ground pound and ranged abilities based on the Final Fantasy Tactics Monk that let them do ranged spirit punches, deal damage and create difficult terrain in a line, or AOE radius earthquakes centered on them. These later abilities have a range equal to the monk's Unarmored Movement speed bonus. Also the ribbon features Monk gets in the late teen levels that other classes get in tier one are shuffled around so monks get them within a couple levels of the casters getting them. There's no reason to wait for level 13 to get 2nd level non combat spell effects or level 10 to get condition immunities Paladins get a 3.
As someone currently running the alexandrian remix of dragonheist which adds a few more levels onto it and expands it into a medium length campaign and while I think the added depth and more space to more easily implement all the villains makes for a more cohesive campaign, if you want less commitment which can more easily be branched out into sequels if players want to, the original book is much better for that, I do still have plans for my group to have a sequel if they want to keep playing these characters, but I feel that would have been easier if we had played the normal story because if we had we probably would've finished around now.
Your episode got me thinking about engagement during other player's turns. This doesn't address a condition like Stun where a player's turn is lost, but your discussion got me thinking about another way to keep players engaged when it is not their turn. This would be a mechanic in addition to Inspiration called "Amplification" (not a great name, I know, but a placeholder). Amplification would basically be a Reaction to any player or NPC/Monster's action with the goal that players stay engaged during other player turns. Much like Inspiration, a player could cash in their Amplification to add any type of action to "amplify" another player/monster/NPC's action. For example, Player 1 says "I cast Firebolt at the Ogre." Player 2 then may say, "I'd like to use my Amplification to throw a vial of oil at the ogre to create an area that bursts into flames from the Firebolt." Using Amplification doesn't cost Player 2 their turn for the round and is consumed and rewarded in the same way Inspiration is. Me personally, I just grant Inspiration at the start of every session as I'm bad about doing so during the session. If having two mechanics like Inspiration and Amplification are too much, then one could stick with just Inspiration, but make it dual purpose; either used as Inspiration or Amplification. Thoughts?
A possible alternative to Shawn's 25% HP to break stun - spend hit dice. Either make it flat - say 2 HD - or roll HD until you get equal or higher to the DC, so the tougher the stun, the more it takes to break.
My #1 advice to people asking about Princes of the Apocalypse is always start small and stay small. Don't rush into the content trying to cover it all 100%. Focus on the low level stuff and really enjoy it and let the elemental cult stuff develop slowly.
I ran a 2 year weekly campaign of PotA from start to finish. Most important thing to do is make interesting npcs in each town, and then burn those towns. Make the stakes be the Dessarin Valley, rather than the dungeons. Use each cult to make a unique threat to the towns, and constantly have the leaders harass the party.
Heroic Resistance When you fail a saving throw against a condition that doesn't directly deal damage, you can spend a number of hit dice equal to your proficiency bonus to succeed instead. Roll the hit dice spent and take the total rolled as damage. Once you use this ability you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest. (I'm trying to get the wording so that you can use it on a stun or charmed save, but not against a fireball. You wouldn't want to use it to reduce a massive, 60 point hit from a legendary monster and bring it down to to 12 or something. Definitely needs workshopping)
The Cypher System has a lot of interaction between turns. The GM doesn't roll - so, players roll to hit, or they roll to dodge. If you're being attacked, you have a lot of choices to make. There is also a lot of cooperation, because any task that you attempt can be eased if you have allies aiding in that task. Especially if players are inventive and interactive, then there is a lot to think about and do between your specific turn.
I've had the rule book sat in my desk for over a year. I loved reading it, and got very excited about the flexibility of theme and story, but I'm daunted about running in a game in it. I think I need to play a few games to see the character progression in play. But very keen to play in this system
@@RevocerGM good luck! Like all games, some things just "click" when you have a chance to sit and play it. There are a fair few actual plays of varying types on TH-cam and beyond as well. I recommend Callisto 6 by Geek and Sundry th-cam.com/video/P29D7rkjvk0/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
The best advice I've seen for tier 4 play, is its not about what the players *can* do, it's about what the players *should* do. Tiers 1-3 players are powerful individuals in an area (that expands as they level), but they're still just pieces on the board. In tier 4 they start setting the board.
Shawn makes a good point the top. This issue was super prevalent during the "OGL crisis" (which is a silly name, but that's a different topic for a different day), when quite a few YTs got very rich off posting videos with "inside information" that was clearly never vetted. I'm not accusing them of just making it up, but they sure didn't work very hard to corroborate the information in a rush to get videos out. WotC is an easy target because they constantly shoot themselves in the foot, but that doesn't mean you should just throw out every negative thing possible you can think of as fact and just declare it's true.
To this day, I think the Lorecast is the only place I've heard anyone pointing out that Hasbro/WOTC's decision to cut ties with Penguin had little, if anything, to do with distribution of the rulebooks. Everyone online is acting like that was some big stab at the idea of murdering printed rulebooks, but Penguin (as I heard here) has little to do with those specific distribution agreements anyway. Penguin was basically redundant with their other distribution agreements in place, so it just made sense to stop paying them. Not trying to defend the big bad boogeyman, but it goes to show how people get off on a tangent when they don't actually sit down and research the facts of the matter.
@@stewi009 being accurate should never be thought of as "a defense", which is part of the problem. There are plenty of real problems with WotC/Hasbro that people could be upset about, but instead a good half of the stories from the rage bait creators complain about are made up (either by them or by their "sources" who claim to have inside information). As the Alex Jones trial from last year showed us, once the money/attention starts rolling in, the incentive to continue the story can be incredibly high. What's funny, is those same creators got all upset when not invited to the WotC Social Media events. WotC was pretty clear that they weren't invited because they reported a lot of false information.
I like the way that the DC20 system (being developed by the TH-cam creator TheDungeonCoach) gives you four "action points" that refresh at the end of your turn that you can then choose to use for both reactions and actions. This system essentially lets you choose if you choose if you want to react or if you want to save those points to use on your own turn.
The idea of avoiding player down time is one of the drivers of various systems - Cypher System comes to mind, but there are certainly others - where the GM doesn't roll any dice; everything is done from the player's view. They attack, they roll. They defend, they roll. And, IMO, there's something to be said for that from a fundamental game design perspective: it ensures that everything is about the characters. Which is true of all TTRPGs - the monster only exists to give the players something to deal with - but adds a formalization of the concept that seems useful.
Great start to the year with this episode! Caught parts of the live Twitch streams from both this and the previous episode. I have to commend Dante for the snappy editing on both counts. All the cuts, transitions, intro work and the funny inserts on the Ellie’s best of year memories are masterful. It makes the TH-cam version so enjoyable to watch. Dante truly is the 5th Beatle on the Lorecast. To that end, it seems half the footage from this episode is missing. #ReleaseTheDanteCut. IYKYK. (Ben, Dael and Dante should get kudos and cookies for keeping things going.) Regarding an adventure to start a campaign: a friend is mulling over using the quests and some encounters in the Essentials Kit for her first foray into 5E DMing. I think that’s a solid modular resource that illustrates some fun encounter design while still being approachable and hackable with her own narrative. I’m hopeful it turns out for her.
On the note of campaigns that can start small but can expand out. Phandelver and Below can do this, as you can just play the 1-5 portion (i.e. Lost Mines) of it and then ask if they want to continue on and save Phandelver from further threats.
You can also add this one to the list of episodes in which "the Lorecast wishes D&D had a thing that exists in PF2E," with conditions that are stunned-ish but not as player-fun-ruining.
What an AWESOME conversation! The discussions prompted by the listener questions were amazing. I’ve moved past “10 Ways to Make Combat Run Faster” -type videos and really appreciate these deeper, more “game design-y” conversations. I’m also over “How WotC Screwed Up THIS Week!” videos and channels (I’ve been systematically purging them from my subscriptions and feeds) and that is another reason that I love your podcast. You all approach RPG news in a much more dispassionate way than so many others. I appreciate your much more even-handed approach. Between your podcast, Shawn’s and Teos’s, and Mike Shea’s, I’ve got everything RPG-related I need from this platform.
Wholeheartedly agree. Eldritch Lorecast, Mastering Dungeons, and the Sly Flourish weekly podcast are the main ingredients to a healthy and balanced TTRPG TH-cam.
Lots of good rpg advice here.I love the idea of trading hit points for Biting the Bullet. I wonder, if you do t too much might there be a negative effect like a temporary loss of constitution? I was also thinking, concerning levels, why not level up 1, 3, 5, 7, 11, 15 and have a chart for such things as a bad break or good fortune that takes into consideration those years of adventuring inbetween? This would be the fast track to playing to a capped level in 6 sessions. Thanks for all the good advice.
To riff on Shawn's point on stun and DND being about HP. Stun: your attacks and spells only do half damage next turn. Charmed: the next damage you do to the target that charmed you is also done to yourself.
I do not see a problem with stunned so long as it is not happening over multiple rounds, personally. It is a bigger issue if it is one bbeg vs a party. It is kind of meant to be annoying, and works out the same way as if the wizard manages to nuke an enemy on the first turn or something. I am not that big of a fan of your charmed rule because that has a lot of role playing implications, and it does not prevent you from helping you allies or attacking another enemy. I like to keep it in my back pocket if I need the bad guys to get info from the PC they would not know, have them try to get a PC to heal them, or just lure them into a trap. Sucks if you are that player, but any penalty kind of sucks. I like partial successes with these statuses, though. Beat the DC by 5+ to get no effect, beat the DC by less than 5 and you get a partial effect, lose by 5 and get the status for a round, and failed by 5+ and you get disadvantage on the save next round to do all the same as above. Sucks to lose your turn, but also sucks to spend a spell slot to do nothing; you basically wasted your turn as a caster. At least this way it moves the ball and something happens in most cases.
These would have very limited effect on spellcasters, especially support casters. Many Bards would be effectively immune to Stun and Charm. Even Wizards... you might get them switch from Fireball to Slow, Haste, or Web, for this round. Which has value by disrupting their plans, but not nearly the same value as putting it on a martial.
Thank you for advising caution and keeping each other accountable while still having strong opinions and going crazy on the internet. ;) Happy New Year to The Eldritch Lorecast and shout out to Dante'! Your attention, effort, and bits of fun really make the TH-cam experience fun!
Happy New Year Everyone! @31:00 Level Cap Question: I'm good in 5e up to Level 10 but after that things get to weird and I'm not as able to run spells in combat beyond that to be a good challenge to my Players. @33:21 The new Monk agrees with you Dael! I hope everyone gets a good monk in the new book! I just wish we had a Scholar/Diplomat Monk among the subclasses for utility purposes. (Yes, that means Switching out Wis for Int or Cha).
The Dragon of Ice Spire Peak is a chunked campaign. After defeating the Dragon the adventures in Leilon build at 3 2/3 levels with a beginning middle and end for 3 further adventures. Very well done.
Try pre-conditions before full conditions - I have a couple which are "dazed" = a lighter condition of "stunned", and "off-balance" = a lighter condition than "prone". Of course, the original conditions exist but a precondition usually occurs first (with exceptions of course). The lighter conditions are usually easier to overcome on a character's turn but still impose penalties similar to the original condition.
One way I got my players active and reducing the negative feeling in combat. I made a magic item that let player character fuse together gaining access to each others features, which kept them involved as they kept looking at their own sheets and suggesting features the would help the active player. Part of me has considered trying to make feats or similar rules to let my players get active in each others turns to see of it may help
46:31 - (apologies for dragging everything back to BG3 but...) this is literally the reason Swen gave for capping at lvl 12. After this point, there are so many variables it becomes really difficult to write for. Obviously a video game that needs to be coded and designed, voiced and rendered etc, it's more difficult. But even still, an adventure book has to be coherent and clear - and I suppose at a certain point, the party can change the playing field so strongly that writing that is a challenge. Even the latest Planescape Adventure skips over some of these levels to make ultimately make the characters powerful enough to face the finale without them breaking the game first.
Talking about a system where you are not bored when the other players have their turn? When the player make all the rolls? Where it is driven by narrative but has an engaging combat mechanic? Have you tried the Cypher System RPG?
The problem I find with a lot of design in RPGs these days is that the designers are making a lot of the player's choices for them. We know a lot of people like to go over the 10th level, and we know that a lot of people don't, but instead of leaving that up to the players, designers throw on the level limit, and now they automatically limit those people from having an interest in their game. You see it a lot with trends too. Advantage and disadvantage mechanics, for example, were thrown into a lot of games because of their popularity in 5E and not because it was a particularly good fit. The best mechanics are the ones that give the GMs flexibility and don't burden them.
34:56 I would love to see a game that encourages player and GM game design. There is no level cap and it starts to introduce class features that are blank and fill in the blank build the group up to design what happens at high levels themselves.
Been thinking about the whole skipped turn thing. I think this is a matter of perspective. At higher level play, a turn might take as long as 3 rounds of level 1 play. The amount of time waiting is not a problem for the normal play loop; the thing the player hates is the feeling of losing something they would have had. Ie, no one really calls foul if they spend a round removing a status on another player that an enemy just put on; this is a wasted turn, but they feel they did something. Plus a stunned player still has skin in the game; able to take hits. It is only boring if you have 580 hp and the enemy only does 5 damage a round. There is a bigger problem of a round of attacks not mattering in a standard 5e encounter, I think.
Re the discussion at 1:00:00 & systems that encourage engagement off turn, DC20 has a 4 Action system that allows for a Player to take multiple Reactions that can aid allies/hinder attackers. The cost is that any Reactions they take off turn is one less Action they can take during their actual turn, at the end of which, all 4 Actions are refunded.
Going into the new year, the direction my gaming is going to be going in is simple. I'll be adapting all the kickstarted 5e and Cypher System books from the last two years that will start coming in the mail over the next few months for use with Fabula Ultima. I've spent so much time looking up ways to homebrew 5e so that it kind of looks a little like Final Fantasy, and 2023 saw the release of a new rules light system that works just like all the classic Final Fantasy games. Want FFX? Run Fabula Ultima with the Kaiju fight rules from the Ryoko's Guide pdf and whatever stands out in the Aetherial Exspanse book when you guys ship that pdf. Get ready to fight Sin over the swirling mass of souls that is fallen Zanarkand. Want to visit the FFVII Gold Saucer? Run Fabula Ultima with the pro bending, street racing, and mech fighting mini games in the Avatar Legends Republic City book, and the ship rules from Sky Zephyrs. Marching across the blasted wastelands that pop up in every FF game? The Web DM Weird Wastelands book has you covered. There's so many good 5e products from third parties that are full of useful mechanics that can be carried over to great games that don't have the footprint 5e does.
The discussion on level cap was interesting but a small correction, mcdm game will cap at 10, but when compared to 5e levels are truncated, you basically start at level 3 and level 10 is roughly equal to 20
My simple answer to keeping players engaged is by turning the players into my helpers. They roll my monsters, attack rolls, saving throws, etc. They roll my luck rolls, etc. I also use this throughout the game, even outside of combat, but it's a tool I use and assign as I see fit to manage the flow of the game. You cannot code that it into the mechanics, at least not totally. This is why I dislike games that force ad GM to change the mechanics or ignore them to keep the flow of the game going.
this was a great episode! hope more youtubers are held accountable but also viewers stop treating youtubers as journalists when a lot of the time they are not the discussion around levels was really good. im interested in the idea of levels existing but not as a reward. cant get my head around how thatd work so very curious the personal level tiers were interesting. it usually feels like levels 1-3 are one level in most games ive played. theyre either rushed through or the game starts at 3. when stretched out, it's one of my favorite parts of the game, tends to make the party really depend on each other and discover our characters
Have you guys or anyone else for that matter, ever ran a campaign from levels 1-5 and then take a break. Have the players play another mini campaign from level 1-5 but it’s a evil campaign, after the mini campaign is over, the group goes back to its first campaign and the group start to find that out events of the evil campaign have had ramifications and as they level up from 5-10 that the players are actually plotting and planning against the evil campaigns characters and visa versa, the evil group now run by the gm is plotting and planning against them? Seems like a fun idea, and the players could potentially draw an emotional attachment to these evil characters, having known more of their intimate goals and personal motivations that drove them to this conflict.
8:35 I saw this unfold and called out said content creator in their comments. I don't generally favor their content because their disposition is naturally ragey and I'm not sure how self aware they or other contet creators are.
On the level 1 hit point thing. There's a strong reason why I started giving all my players an extra 4hp at character creation. Let's them take an entire extra small to medium hit before they start worrying
I saw a home rule for 0 level play if you want to run a death funnel that reminds me of; roll 4 characters with 3 hp, 3d6 for stats, a background, and just the race with a few random peices of equipment and go on a basic adventure with the point of deciding who you will play by killing off the other 3 characters you are running. If you do that, you start off with 3+con more hp and get to do goofy things since you have 4 characters. Also if any survive besides the one you want, they become npc's your party knows and can call in favors for since they went through this situation together. Personally, I do not think death on a crit is that bad at level 1 because you do not have a huge investment in them and making another character can be beneficial as it is meant to be the "training level" so it is meant for new players to be able to fix mistakes; ie, "huh, I did not know I need perception to see traps; thought my thrives tools covered everything.... naybe I should bring up my wsd and take that as a proficiency."
Level Cap: the number used seems arbitrary. That is, D&D 5e goes to lvl 20, and Cypher System goes to tier 6. But a lvl 20 character is about equal in power to a tier 6 character. So in most cypher campaigns it takes longer to tier up than it does in D&D to level up.
Just did a puzzle monster in D&D, terrible results. 1 character died, almost total tpk, and everyone cried. Turns out that if your players aren't inclined to investigate what the enemy's weakness is, even if it is actually very obvious if they stop and think, they will just feel like the difficult fight is punishing them for wrong play.
Speaking of clickbaity, jaded ex girlfriend energy... dungeons and discource is just the worst but their channel seems to be doing well. Negitive videos seem to get more traction on youtube than positive. Thats just so disappointing. Even channels i used to enjoy like professor dungeon master has given in to the "screw dnd" bandwagon. The good news is ive started watching mastering dungeons and deficient master and they have been incredibly fun and knowledgeable. Never miss an episode of of the realms #1 podcast, keep up the great work! New year, new campaign! Im running dragonlance: shadow of the dragon queen this year.
BECMI is pronounced "Beck-me." Never heard it called b-e-c-m-i. Ad&d had the same structure as there was name level, domain level, and demi god level. It was all just in the same book, and most rules were in the dmg.
As someone who makes TH-cam videos about dnd weekly, I hate seeing people who’ve made the entire careers just making videos being negative and seeming to revel in their hopeful downfall of dnd/wotc. I’m not going to lie and say I haven’t tried to gain views off the hate train, but that equals less than 5% of what I’ve made , and it’s only been when I really feel passionate about the topic. I couldn’t imagine sitting down at my computer and having to find a new reason to be negative each week. I wish these people stopped focusing so much on the game they don’t like, and showed off the games they like more instead.
The ridiculous thing about those types of videos and “content creators” is that they literally could not exist or pull the kinds of numbers and revenue they do without D&D being as popular as it is. Many of them literally owe their existence on this platform to the very thing and the very company that they try to shred and tear down every week. If they were to succeed in what their goal seems to be - destroy Hasbro/WotC/5th Edition - their numbers would eventually dry up. I also love the hypocrisy of the TH-camrs that put out their anti-D&D videos and then include a blurb about their 5E compatible splat book or Kickstarter. Hilarious! I have been systematically deleting and hiding hose channels from my subscriptions and feeds since the OGL crisis.
the good news is that the ACCUSER has since apologized and promised to do a better job, and feels terrible the problems this this has caused the artist. and will refrain from tryin to be a reporter.
My issue with the level cap in DND is that although the game goes to 20 they (wizards) they do not support they game. They only have 1 adventure that they have published that goes that high in the life time of 5th edition and thats just sad. I think thats why people want to see higher level play. i could be wrong though, just my thoughts.
Ngl the segment about the controversy of WotC using AI art did not age well because the very next day WotC got caught using promotional AI art, lying, and attacking fans.... ouch
I think people who get bored, pout, etc because their character is out of the fight for 5-10 minutes is a selfish player. There have been several times I've been down for a few rounds, but I was still invested in the story and still very much interested in what the rest of my party was doing.
@@paulunderhill550 okay, replace my phrasing with selfish. I don't think people are necessarily being selfish when games are boring and they're bored as a result.
Sadly, cynicism and pessimism usually wins out on social media. I get enough of that in my life without choosing to indulge in it on TH-cam. I love listening to the Lorecast along with Mastering Dungeons, Sly Flourish, and others that have a less negative slant. Thanks for being here!
The wise old owl sat in an oak.
The more he saw, the less he spoke.
The less he spoke, the more he heard,
Why can't we all be like that wise old bird?
I'm running Descent into Avernus, and I get people think it's a bad adventure, but as someone who loved the Hells, and the Blood War in general, I think it's great
BG3 supposedly ended the campaign where they did specifically so you would get spells like Chain Lightning but not things like Limited Wish.
As a DM, I'm often looking at the math. You got +1 to hit, or +1 attack, but the average monsters AC or HP just took a corresponding jump as well. It all comes out in the wash, so was there really a point?
But most of the people I've played with don't see it that way. To them, it feels like Effort in = Reward out. That feels fair and gives them control over their characters progression, that isn't what loot the DM happens to provide. They like flipping through new spells or new feats to find what they're going to take next, plotting out the advancement all the way to level 20 even if they're only level 5 and it's highly unlikely they're going to get to level 20.
Think about things in design terms, you start to think logically about a system and most people just deal with it a feeling level. It doesn't need to make logical sense, if it feels fun. And for many, it's fun to think about what you're going to do when you level up.
One replacement for Stun that I've been thinking of which is similar to Dael's suggestion is to add Clocks to bosses.
If the Party stuns the boss, or does any other high level save or die effect that instantly kills, banishes, or defeats the big bad, instead of suffering that effect the Boss Fight Clock loses one tick.
The airship carrying the doomsday device stalls and stays on the runway for another round.
The shift to Phase 2 of the fight is delayed one round.
The summoning ritual that pulls Tiamat into the mortal realms is derailed as one of the human sacrifices gets loose and now there's an NPC running around that the party can protect and delay the cult's plans.
If the Players get stunned/paralyzed, they could lose a turn... or they could be selfish and let the Boss Clock go up one tick to end the effect. Or if the player would be stunned in a non boss fight they can choose to not be stunned, and the DM gets to spawn another 1d4 or 1d6 4e/MCDM minions that take one successful attack roll to kill.
Edit: For all the Monk/Stunning Strike stans out there I should also noted that I replace Stunning strike and most of the Monk Base Class abilities that cost Ki points with a buffed version of Flurry of Blows that costs more but has the monk roll their Martial Arts die and make that many unarmed strikes against a single adjacent target. Also higher level monks get a bunch of ground pound and ranged abilities based on the Final Fantasy Tactics Monk that let them do ranged spirit punches, deal damage and create difficult terrain in a line, or AOE radius earthquakes centered on them. These later abilities have a range equal to the monk's Unarmored Movement speed bonus.
Also the ribbon features Monk gets in the late teen levels that other classes get in tier one are shuffled around so monks get them within a couple levels of the casters getting them. There's no reason to wait for level 13 to get 2nd level non combat spell effects or level 10 to get condition immunities Paladins get a 3.
As someone currently running the alexandrian remix of dragonheist which adds a few more levels onto it and expands it into a medium length campaign and while I think the added depth and more space to more easily implement all the villains makes for a more cohesive campaign, if you want less commitment which can more easily be branched out into sequels if players want to, the original book is much better for that, I do still have plans for my group to have a sequel if they want to keep playing these characters, but I feel that would have been easier if we had played the normal story because if we had we probably would've finished around now.
Your episode got me thinking about engagement during other player's turns. This doesn't address a condition like Stun where a player's turn is lost, but your discussion got me thinking about another way to keep players engaged when it is not their turn. This would be a mechanic in addition to Inspiration called "Amplification" (not a great name, I know, but a placeholder). Amplification would basically be a Reaction to any player or NPC/Monster's action with the goal that players stay engaged during other player turns. Much like Inspiration, a player could cash in their Amplification to add any type of action to "amplify" another player/monster/NPC's action. For example, Player 1 says "I cast Firebolt at the Ogre." Player 2 then may say, "I'd like to use my Amplification to throw a vial of oil at the ogre to create an area that bursts into flames from the Firebolt." Using Amplification doesn't cost Player 2 their turn for the round and is consumed and rewarded in the same way Inspiration is. Me personally, I just grant Inspiration at the start of every session as I'm bad about doing so during the session. If having two mechanics like Inspiration and Amplification are too much, then one could stick with just Inspiration, but make it dual purpose; either used as Inspiration or Amplification. Thoughts?
Red hand of Doom is my favourite adventure to run and converts to 5e with so few changes.
I ran it in 3.5, and it was SO amazing
A possible alternative to Shawn's 25% HP to break stun - spend hit dice. Either make it flat - say 2 HD - or roll HD until you get equal or higher to the DC, so the tougher the stun, the more it takes to break.
51:29 - THE JUDGE: No weapon forged can harm me.
BUFFY: That was then. This is now.
THE JUDGE: What does that do?
😂
My #1 advice to people asking about Princes of the Apocalypse is always start small and stay small. Don't rush into the content trying to cover it all 100%. Focus on the low level stuff and really enjoy it and let the elemental cult stuff develop slowly.
I ran a 2 year weekly campaign of PotA from start to finish. Most important thing to do is make interesting npcs in each town, and then burn those towns. Make the stakes be the Dessarin Valley, rather than the dungeons. Use each cult to make a unique threat to the towns, and constantly have the leaders harass the party.
Heroic Resistance
When you fail a saving throw against a condition that doesn't directly deal damage, you can spend a number of hit dice equal to your proficiency bonus to succeed instead. Roll the hit dice spent and take the total rolled as damage. Once you use this ability you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
(I'm trying to get the wording so that you can use it on a stun or charmed save, but not against a fireball. You wouldn't want to use it to reduce a massive, 60 point hit from a legendary monster and bring it down to to 12 or something. Definitely needs workshopping)
The Cypher System has a lot of interaction between turns. The GM doesn't roll - so, players roll to hit, or they roll to dodge. If you're being attacked, you have a lot of choices to make. There is also a lot of cooperation, because any task that you attempt can be eased if you have allies aiding in that task. Especially if players are inventive and interactive, then there is a lot to think about and do between your specific turn.
I've had the rule book sat in my desk for over a year. I loved reading it, and got very excited about the flexibility of theme and story, but I'm daunted about running in a game in it. I think I need to play a few games to see the character progression in play. But very keen to play in this system
@@RevocerGM good luck! Like all games, some things just "click" when you have a chance to sit and play it. There are a fair few actual plays of varying types on TH-cam and beyond as well. I recommend Callisto 6 by Geek and Sundry th-cam.com/video/P29D7rkjvk0/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
The best advice I've seen for tier 4 play, is its not about what the players *can* do, it's about what the players *should* do.
Tiers 1-3 players are powerful individuals in an area (that expands as they level), but they're still just pieces on the board. In tier 4 they start setting the board.
Shawn makes a good point the top. This issue was super prevalent during the "OGL crisis" (which is a silly name, but that's a different topic for a different day), when quite a few YTs got very rich off posting videos with "inside information" that was clearly never vetted. I'm not accusing them of just making it up, but they sure didn't work very hard to corroborate the information in a rush to get videos out.
WotC is an easy target because they constantly shoot themselves in the foot, but that doesn't mean you should just throw out every negative thing possible you can think of as fact and just declare it's true.
To this day, I think the Lorecast is the only place I've heard anyone pointing out that Hasbro/WOTC's decision to cut ties with Penguin had little, if anything, to do with distribution of the rulebooks. Everyone online is acting like that was some big stab at the idea of murdering printed rulebooks, but Penguin (as I heard here) has little to do with those specific distribution agreements anyway. Penguin was basically redundant with their other distribution agreements in place, so it just made sense to stop paying them.
Not trying to defend the big bad boogeyman, but it goes to show how people get off on a tangent when they don't actually sit down and research the facts of the matter.
@@stewi009 being accurate should never be thought of as "a defense", which is part of the problem. There are plenty of real problems with WotC/Hasbro that people could be upset about, but instead a good half of the stories from the rage bait creators complain about are made up (either by them or by their "sources" who claim to have inside information). As the Alex Jones trial from last year showed us, once the money/attention starts rolling in, the incentive to continue the story can be incredibly high.
What's funny, is those same creators got all upset when not invited to the WotC Social Media events. WotC was pretty clear that they weren't invited because they reported a lot of false information.
After the SRD entering Creative Commons, the best outcome from the OGL fiasco was pruning so many RPG TH-camrs from my Recommended list.
I like the way that the DC20 system (being developed by the TH-cam creator TheDungeonCoach) gives you four "action points" that refresh at the end of your turn that you can then choose to use for both reactions and actions. This system essentially lets you choose if you choose if you want to react or if you want to save those points to use on your own turn.
The idea of avoiding player down time is one of the drivers of various systems - Cypher System comes to mind, but there are certainly others - where the GM doesn't roll any dice; everything is done from the player's view. They attack, they roll. They defend, they roll. And, IMO, there's something to be said for that from a fundamental game design perspective: it ensures that everything is about the characters. Which is true of all TTRPGs - the monster only exists to give the players something to deal with - but adds a formalization of the concept that seems useful.
Great start to the year with this episode!
Caught parts of the live Twitch streams from both this and the previous episode. I have to commend Dante for the snappy editing on both counts. All the cuts, transitions, intro work and the funny inserts on the Ellie’s best of year memories are masterful. It makes the TH-cam version so enjoyable to watch. Dante truly is the 5th Beatle on the Lorecast.
To that end, it seems half the footage from this episode is missing. #ReleaseTheDanteCut. IYKYK. (Ben, Dael and Dante should get kudos and cookies for keeping things going.)
Regarding an adventure to start a campaign: a friend is mulling over using the quests and some encounters in the Essentials Kit for her first foray into 5E DMing. I think that’s a solid modular resource that illustrates some fun encounter design while still being approachable and hackable with her own narrative. I’m hopeful it turns out for her.
On the note of campaigns that can start small but can expand out.
Phandelver and Below can do this, as you can just play the 1-5 portion (i.e. Lost Mines) of it and then ask if they want to continue on and save Phandelver from further threats.
You can also add this one to the list of episodes in which "the Lorecast wishes D&D had a thing that exists in PF2E," with conditions that are stunned-ish but not as player-fun-ruining.
From the mighty mouth of Merwin, "If you don't know what you're talking about, STFU!" Just. Perfect.
Dragon Heist was the first ever campaign I DM’d!! Gonna definitely do it again, so we can stream it!
I start running Ghosts of Saltmarsh TONIGHT.
What an AWESOME conversation! The discussions prompted by the listener questions were amazing. I’ve moved past “10 Ways to Make Combat Run Faster” -type videos and really appreciate these deeper, more “game design-y” conversations. I’m also over “How WotC Screwed Up THIS Week!” videos and channels (I’ve been systematically purging them from my subscriptions and feeds) and that is another reason that I love your podcast. You all approach RPG news in a much more dispassionate way than so many others. I appreciate your much more even-handed approach. Between your podcast, Shawn’s and Teos’s, and Mike Shea’s, I’ve got everything RPG-related I need from this platform.
Wholeheartedly agree. Eldritch Lorecast, Mastering Dungeons, and the Sly Flourish weekly podcast are the main ingredients to a healthy and balanced TTRPG TH-cam.
Lots of good rpg advice here.I love the idea of trading hit points for Biting the Bullet. I wonder, if you do t too much might there be a negative effect like a temporary loss of constitution? I was also thinking, concerning levels, why not level up 1, 3, 5, 7, 11, 15 and have a chart for such things as a bad break or good fortune that takes into consideration those years of adventuring inbetween? This would be the fast track to playing to a capped level in 6 sessions. Thanks for all the good advice.
To riff on Shawn's point on stun and DND being about HP. Stun: your attacks and spells only do half damage next turn. Charmed: the next damage you do to the target that charmed you is also done to yourself.
I do not see a problem with stunned so long as it is not happening over multiple rounds, personally. It is a bigger issue if it is one bbeg vs a party. It is kind of meant to be annoying, and works out the same way as if the wizard manages to nuke an enemy on the first turn or something.
I am not that big of a fan of your charmed rule because that has a lot of role playing implications, and it does not prevent you from helping you allies or attacking another enemy. I like to keep it in my back pocket if I need the bad guys to get info from the PC they would not know, have them try to get a PC to heal them, or just lure them into a trap. Sucks if you are that player, but any penalty kind of sucks.
I like partial successes with these statuses, though. Beat the DC by 5+ to get no effect, beat the DC by less than 5 and you get a partial effect, lose by 5 and get the status for a round, and failed by 5+ and you get disadvantage on the save next round to do all the same as above. Sucks to lose your turn, but also sucks to spend a spell slot to do nothing; you basically wasted your turn as a caster. At least this way it moves the ball and something happens in most cases.
These would have very limited effect on spellcasters, especially support casters. Many Bards would be effectively immune to Stun and Charm.
Even Wizards... you might get them switch from Fireball to Slow, Haste, or Web, for this round. Which has value by disrupting their plans, but not nearly the same value as putting it on a martial.
Thank you for advising caution and keeping each other accountable while still having strong opinions and going crazy on the internet. ;)
Happy New Year to The Eldritch Lorecast and shout out to Dante'! Your attention, effort, and bits of fun really make the TH-cam experience fun!
I love the discussion in this one! Thank you so much!
Thanks for listening, Angela!
Saga of Seasons--Stardew Valley with vikings!
Happy New Year Everyone!
@31:00 Level Cap Question: I'm good in 5e up to Level 10 but after that things get to weird and I'm not as able to run spells in combat beyond that to be a good challenge to my Players.
@33:21 The new Monk agrees with you Dael! I hope everyone gets a good monk in the new book! I just wish we had a Scholar/Diplomat Monk among the subclasses for utility purposes. (Yes, that means Switching out Wis for Int or Cha).
The Dragon of Ice Spire Peak is a chunked campaign. After defeating the Dragon the adventures in Leilon build at 3 2/3 levels with a beginning middle and end for 3 further adventures. Very well done.
Try pre-conditions before full conditions - I have a couple which are "dazed" = a lighter condition of "stunned", and "off-balance" = a lighter condition than "prone". Of course, the original conditions exist but a precondition usually occurs first (with exceptions of course). The lighter conditions are usually easier to overcome on a character's turn but still impose penalties similar to the original condition.
One way I got my players active and reducing the negative feeling in combat.
I made a magic item that let player character fuse together gaining access to each others features, which kept them involved as they kept looking at their own sheets and suggesting features the would help the active player.
Part of me has considered trying to make feats or similar rules to let my players get active in each others turns to see of it may help
46:31 - (apologies for dragging everything back to BG3 but...) this is literally the reason Swen gave for capping at lvl 12. After this point, there are so many variables it becomes really difficult to write for. Obviously a video game that needs to be coded and designed, voiced and rendered etc, it's more difficult. But even still, an adventure book has to be coherent and clear - and I suppose at a certain point, the party can change the playing field so strongly that writing that is a challenge. Even the latest Planescape Adventure skips over some of these levels to make ultimately make the characters powerful enough to face the finale without them breaking the game first.
James got absolutely no representation in the 'This year on the Lorecast' segment so I had assumed they were absent this episode!
Happy New Year, Lorecast crew! Looking forward to 2024 with the greatest TTRPG podcast ever.
Talking about a system where you are not bored when the other players have their turn? When the player make all the rolls? Where it is driven by narrative but has an engaging combat mechanic? Have you tried the Cypher System RPG?
The problem I find with a lot of design in RPGs these days is that the designers are making a lot of the player's choices for them. We know a lot of people like to go over the 10th level, and we know that a lot of people don't, but instead of leaving that up to the players, designers throw on the level limit, and now they automatically limit those people from having an interest in their game. You see it a lot with trends too. Advantage and disadvantage mechanics, for example, were thrown into a lot of games because of their popularity in 5E and not because it was a particularly good fit. The best mechanics are the ones that give the GMs flexibility and don't burden them.
34:56 I would love to see a game that encourages player and GM game design. There is no level cap and it starts to introduce class features that are blank and fill in the blank build the group up to design what happens at high levels themselves.
Been thinking about the whole skipped turn thing. I think this is a matter of perspective. At higher level play, a turn might take as long as 3 rounds of level 1 play. The amount of time waiting is not a problem for the normal play loop; the thing the player hates is the feeling of losing something they would have had. Ie, no one really calls foul if they spend a round removing a status on another player that an enemy just put on; this is a wasted turn, but they feel they did something.
Plus a stunned player still has skin in the game; able to take hits. It is only boring if you have 580 hp and the enemy only does 5 damage a round. There is a bigger problem of a round of attacks not mattering in a standard 5e encounter, I think.
Re the discussion at 1:00:00 & systems that encourage engagement off turn,
DC20 has a 4 Action system that allows for a Player to take multiple Reactions that can aid allies/hinder attackers.
The cost is that any Reactions they take off turn is one less Action they can take during their actual turn, at the end of which, all 4 Actions are refunded.
It seems like an oversight that lesser restoration ends paralyzed but not stunned.
Going into the new year, the direction my gaming is going to be going in is simple. I'll be adapting all the kickstarted 5e and Cypher System books from the last two years that will start coming in the mail over the next few months for use with Fabula Ultima.
I've spent so much time looking up ways to homebrew 5e so that it kind of looks a little like Final Fantasy, and 2023 saw the release of a new rules light system that works just like all the classic Final Fantasy games.
Want FFX? Run Fabula Ultima with the Kaiju fight rules from the Ryoko's Guide pdf and whatever stands out in the Aetherial Exspanse book when you guys ship that pdf. Get ready to fight Sin over the swirling mass of souls that is fallen Zanarkand.
Want to visit the FFVII Gold Saucer? Run Fabula Ultima with the pro bending, street racing, and mech fighting mini games in the Avatar Legends Republic City book, and the ship rules from Sky Zephyrs.
Marching across the blasted wastelands that pop up in every FF game? The Web DM Weird Wastelands book has you covered.
There's so many good 5e products from third parties that are full of useful mechanics that can be carried over to great games that don't have the footprint 5e does.
The discussion on level cap was interesting but a small correction, mcdm game will cap at 10, but when compared to 5e levels are truncated, you basically start at level 3 and level 10 is roughly equal to 20
Flippin' great podcast! Happy New Year!
I think the new MCDM RPG does a great job of maintaining interest and tension between turns with their initiative system.
Happy New Year, Lorecast crew!
My simple answer to keeping players engaged is by turning the players into my helpers. They roll my monsters, attack rolls, saving throws, etc. They roll my luck rolls, etc. I also use this throughout the game, even outside of combat, but it's a tool I use and assign as I see fit to manage the flow of the game. You cannot code that it into the mechanics, at least not totally. This is why I dislike games that force ad GM to change the mechanics or ignore them to keep the flow of the game going.
I've run Dragon Heist three times. I could not recommend this adventure more.
I hope with three different groups
this was a great episode!
hope more youtubers are held accountable but also viewers stop treating youtubers as journalists when a lot of the time they are not
the discussion around levels was really good. im interested in the idea of levels existing but not as a reward. cant get my head around how thatd work so very curious
the personal level tiers were interesting. it usually feels like levels 1-3 are one level in most games ive played. theyre either rushed through or the game starts at 3. when stretched out, it's one of my favorite parts of the game, tends to make the party really depend on each other and discover our characters
Shadowrun does the active defense rolls, in a few different ways, depending on edition. Still sometimes have to deal with disengaged players though.
Have you guys or anyone else for that matter, ever ran a campaign from levels 1-5 and then take a break. Have the players play another mini campaign from level 1-5 but it’s a evil campaign, after the mini campaign is over, the group goes back to its first campaign and the group start to find that out events of the evil campaign have had ramifications and as they level up from 5-10 that the players are actually plotting and planning against the evil campaigns characters and visa versa, the evil group now run by the gm is plotting and planning against them? Seems like a fun idea, and the players could potentially draw an emotional attachment to these evil characters, having known more of their intimate goals and personal motivations that drove them to this conflict.
8:35 I saw this unfold and called out said content creator in their comments. I don't generally favor their content because their disposition is naturally ragey and I'm not sure how self aware they or other contet creators are.
On the level 1 hit point thing. There's a strong reason why I started giving all my players an extra 4hp at character creation. Let's them take an entire extra small to medium hit before they start worrying
I saw a home rule for 0 level play if you want to run a death funnel that reminds me of; roll 4 characters with 3 hp, 3d6 for stats, a background, and just the race with a few random peices of equipment and go on a basic adventure with the point of deciding who you will play by killing off the other 3 characters you are running. If you do that, you start off with 3+con more hp and get to do goofy things since you have 4 characters. Also if any survive besides the one you want, they become npc's your party knows and can call in favors for since they went through this situation together.
Personally, I do not think death on a crit is that bad at level 1 because you do not have a huge investment in them and making another character can be beneficial as it is meant to be the "training level" so it is meant for new players to be able to fix mistakes; ie, "huh, I did not know I need perception to see traps; thought my thrives tools covered everything.... naybe I should bring up my wsd and take that as a proficiency."
Level Cap: the number used seems arbitrary. That is, D&D 5e goes to lvl 20, and Cypher System goes to tier 6. But a lvl 20 character is about equal in power to a tier 6 character. So in most cypher campaigns it takes longer to tier up than it does in D&D to level up.
I ran dragon heist for 3.5 years from lvl 1 to 12
Just did a puzzle monster in D&D, terrible results. 1 character died, almost total tpk, and everyone cried. Turns out that if your players aren't inclined to investigate what the enemy's weakness is, even if it is actually very obvious if they stop and think, they will just feel like the difficult fight is punishing them for wrong play.
Speaking of clickbaity, jaded ex girlfriend energy... dungeons and discource is just the worst but their channel seems to be doing well. Negitive videos seem to get more traction on youtube than positive. Thats just so disappointing.
Even channels i used to enjoy like professor dungeon master has given in to the "screw dnd" bandwagon. The good news is ive started watching mastering dungeons and deficient master and they have been incredibly fun and knowledgeable. Never miss an episode of of the realms #1 podcast, keep up the great work!
New year, new campaign! Im running dragonlance: shadow of the dragon queen this year.
I watched PDM make two “this is my last wotc clickbait” videos in two weeks. Unsubbed and do not recommend as soon as the third one appeared.
BECMI is pronounced "Beck-me." Never heard it called b-e-c-m-i.
Ad&d had the same structure as there was name level, domain level, and demi god level. It was all just in the same book, and most rules were in the dmg.
ok hear me out. a giff sorcerer that uses a gun to shoot their spells
As someone who makes TH-cam videos about dnd weekly, I hate seeing people who’ve made the entire careers just making videos being negative and seeming to revel in their hopeful downfall of dnd/wotc.
I’m not going to lie and say I haven’t tried to gain views off the hate train, but that equals less than 5% of what I’ve made , and it’s only been when I really feel passionate about the topic. I couldn’t imagine sitting down at my computer and having to find a new reason to be negative each week.
I wish these people stopped focusing so much on the game they don’t like, and showed off the games they like more instead.
The ridiculous thing about those types of videos and “content creators” is that they literally could not exist or pull the kinds of numbers and revenue they do without D&D being as popular as it is. Many of them literally owe their existence on this platform to the very thing and the very company that they try to shred and tear down every week. If they were to succeed in what their goal seems to be - destroy Hasbro/WotC/5th Edition - their numbers would eventually dry up. I also love the hypocrisy of the TH-camrs that put out their anti-D&D videos and then include a blurb about their 5E compatible splat book or Kickstarter. Hilarious! I have been systematically deleting and hiding hose channels from my subscriptions and feeds since the OGL crisis.
the good news is that the ACCUSER has since apologized and promised to do a better job, and feels terrible the problems this this has caused the artist. and will refrain from tryin to be a reporter.
12:24 Not talking is hard
My issue with the level cap in DND is that although the game goes to 20 they (wizards) they do not support they game. They only have 1 adventure that they have published that goes that high in the life time of 5th edition and thats just sad. I think thats why people want to see higher level play. i could be wrong though, just my thoughts.
I prefer systems with no levels. Genesys is a good example.
Ngl the segment about the controversy of WotC using AI art did not age well because the very next day WotC got caught using promotional AI art, lying, and attacking fans.... ouch
I think people who get bored, pout, etc because their character is out of the fight for 5-10 minutes is a selfish player. There have been several times I've been down for a few rounds, but I was still invested in the story and still very much interested in what the rest of my party was doing.
Good games facilitate engagement imo. I don't think it's fair to put it all on poor players.
@@SeldonnHari I didn't say poor players. I said selfish players
@@paulunderhill550 okay, replace my phrasing with selfish. I don't think people are necessarily being selfish when games are boring and they're bored as a result.
@@SeldonnHari I'll put some blame on the DM if he's running a boring game.
It seems like Shawn really wanted to say more about the AI art discussion.