Be sure to also check out Atun-Shei's video, which is essential to fill in more information that's not discussed in this episode, here: th-cam.com/video/zyiD6MNIYSg/w-d-xo.html
well...I'm here because of Atun-Shei... so there... and as much as I am a history nerd, I'm not a gun nerd, jessayin, but I'll like, and watch some more of your stuff to think out about subbing
@@averagejoe112 kinda surprised by this colab particularly because of comments Atun-shei has made (such as those about republicans) edit: to Atun-shei's credit he dose really good research the issues tho is his bias's show quite strongly in alot of his content
You're telling me the slave owners and the militia members may have exaggerated how vicious and well-armed their opponents were in order to make their own exploits seem more justified and heroic? *GASP* Yeah, that tracks.
@@SimuLord True. He's one of our only sources for that war. That being said, when you look at his achievements afterwards during the civil war and all the campaigns he won, his reputation is well-earned. Also, while Caesar probably engaged in some embellishment, his book is actually pretty well backed by archaeological finds. And when you consider he was there (unlike ancient Historians writing decades, if not centuries, after something happened) and that he actually beat the Gauls, there are good reasons to consider it an accurate source. I would also add that forging your reputation as a weapon is a Great Skill for a general to have.
@@flacojimenez3017 What do you mean, "Africans"? I mean, exclude Ethiopia and its native literary tradition, the Mahgreb, and a ton of others including further South West and maybe that is accurate. As far as I know, anyway, equally maybe not. As for New Africans (West of the Atlantic), the literature goes way back into the 19th century. Unless you're referring specifically to very early New African history as recorded by New Africans, in which case you have a point. There again history has always been written by the owning classes and so it shouldn't be surprising. There's tragically little white working class/underclass primary recorded history either from that time.
@@jeffslote9671 so in your mind what's wrong with America is recognizing, acknowledging, and shining a light on the atrocities in its past and committed by your ancestors? Is that actually what you're saying here?
@@jeffslote9671 except that the past is still holding them back. If you knew anything about history you'd know how many times attempts at building strong black communities and wealth has been met with actual violence and destruction, how that's made it impossible for them to catch up to white people economically and in terms of other things like education, and how much of the underlying bigotry hasn't gone away but instead gotten more insidious and better at hiding itself from people who never examine your society at anything more than the most superficial of surface levels. Like your understanding of history and modern systems of oppression has to be so deficient to make the statements you have that it's equal parts mind boggling and horrifying. But then it's probably not entirely your fault. America in general, and it's education systems particularly in certain States, have always cared more about hiding American atrocities than about teaching people how your history has shaped the country to this day. You owe it to yourself, your country, and people of colour who are your fellow citizens to educate yourself because this sort of naivety only ensures that things take decades longer to improve than they should.
Alternative theory: the rebels took Andry hostage in order to get him to hand over weapons. They don't tie him up because they need him to take them to where the guns are and potentially unlock the door. Knowing that all the militia's weapons were in members' houses, so he can't give them anything, and fearing that they'll kill him when he admits that, Andry seizes a chance to get away and runs and hides. The rebels take revenge by killing his son, but needing to keep the momentum of the revolution going, they have to leave, allowing Andry to emerge from hiding. Andry then lies about the incident because he knows his actions got his son killed.
Alternative theory: as suggested in the video, they were too humane to kill him when he was defenceless. Even in armed conventional warfare men sometimes struggle to kill.
The revenge killing doesn’t make sense to me but the Hostage/Escape scenario does, as does the hiding. I can see the son getting killed in an ineffective armed rescue attempt, but this idea that the rebels entered that bedroom with intent to murder and then failed to do so seems incredible. They probably beat him up, maybe even cut him as he escaped, but the whole situation screams “failed hostage taking” not “attempted murder”.
Yeah I was thinking like how in the ever loving fuck do you and your armed homies sneak up on a sleeping dude, surround him, and then not kill the dude?
@@striatic I don't think it "screams" anything. I think we have no real way to verify exactly what took place. We have no way to do that at all. It could be either one.
I'm really glad to see you two continue collaborating. On a related note, last time you met up, I posed a question about the access to firearms for former slaves in the Reconstruction-era South. For anyone interested, in the time since then, I found a few articles on the topic which offer a solid introduction to the methods and motivations of disarmament, as well as the sadly deficient countervailing attempts to keep former slaves armed in accordance with their rights: "Freedmen with Firearms: White Terrorism and Black Disarmament During Reconstruction" "The Arming and Disarming of Black America" "The Limits of Incorporation: Violence, Gun Rights, and Gun Regulation in the Reconstruction South" Necessarily a bit legal-heavy, but worth a read! Additionally, the latter of the three opens with reference to the Battle of Liberty Place, an event which could use the InRange treatment.
I also found this article interesting: Mark Anthony Frassetto, The Law and Politics of Firearms Regulation in Reconstruction Texas, 4 Tex. A&M L. Rev. 95 (2016)
Twenty armed slaves, most of whom probably where very strong from a life of hard physical labor, would have no trouble killing one sleeping man in his bed. I think there is no question that they let him go. A more interesting question is why.
I think it far more likely that he was not asleep. Other slave uprisings killed the master. They weren't stupid, they would know he would raise the alarm and he most certainly was the main cause of their suffering. I think he was forewarned or discovered the plot and the slaves were forced into action
Men in uniformed conventional war baulk at killing. Maybe they simply didn't want to, being humane. This would not fit the narrative from a slave owning point of view, which explains the odd escape tale. That said I've seen with my own eyes a man who had been attacked with axe with multiple wounds sauntering casually around. So much so that thanks to a language barrier I didn't know he was in such a bad way and failed to get him assistance as fast as he needed.
I'm going to guess that some started to hack Andrey up and someone said wait we need a hostage and in that pause the son appears with a sword and Andrey was able to escape.
You have to take into account their food though. Slaves were generally speaking not as well fed as free men and it's not uncommon for them to be malnourished. It should also be added that fresh meat were for a long time something of a luxury, so protein were more scarce among common people and slaves especially. So in a time when more or less everyone performed some form of physical labour (especially from a modern point of view), only the wealthy few had the diet to grow up into strong, tall people. (Not saying that it means that one free person is stronger than twenty armed slaves, but it's an often overlooked aspect)
@@GR-kt4le I would definitely do a collaboration with the two of them about enjoying lots of local oysters and such a New Orleans. Discussion of history could be incidental. :-)
After hearing the known facts, as a retired CSI, I can see two likely possibilities. 1, The number of active participants in the bedroom were less than reported and many of those were not fully committed. It's also probable the son's intervention diverted the attention of the attackers allowing his injured father to escape. 2, It's possible the true or primary target of their rage was the son. It might have been his treatment of the slaves which sparked the uprising. The fact that he was left pinned to the door suggests great anger and hatred. Don't forget to see things from the the perspective of the time. Multiple slashes from filthy farm empliments could most likely result in death from infection. An individual can be stiched up, return to battle and still die from infection a week later. In this case the use of the words mortally wounded could indicate that the man's life was still in danger at the time the article was written.
@@LunaDevaKitty idk where you grew up, but throughout my schooling in the united states, history regarding slavery was talked about in every year, and only ever with disdain. maybe you grew up somewhere different, but to imply your experiences reflect that of an entire country's and then to write it off as "racist" is just... daft. i am confident that most schools here teach the horrors of slavery
To further corroborate the claim that guns were not kept in the "basement," I doubt that actual Revolutionary War veterans would have bailed on their organizational model so quickly.
Another thought on that front: If that had been the militia's store of arms and they had been taken, where did the militia get the guns they used suppressing the rebellion? The obvious answer is that they didn't get them from some store, but had them ready at their homes. Mind you it's likely the rebels got some guns at the house. He would likely have had his personal weapons.
Yeah, I just don’t see a grass roots local militia having an armory they’d need to arm themselves from. If surplus rifles were so abundant, everybody would have a few anyway thus negating the need for an armory.
As an Aussie who fell in love with New Orleans, anyone who has the ability should absolutely visit. It's an incredible place that no description can quite capture and the history lives there in a very unique way. Plus the mix of cultures means there's endless great food. In fact, the only downside for me was the necessity to exist while breathing low-pressure steam!
@@grmpEqweer 😂 Definitely sounds right! It reminds me of tropical Queensland, except I don't want to avoid it like the plague (that joke played differently the last time I used it!).
VVitchfinder General of Massachusetts Colony, "Thou art a wretched sinner, utterly unworthy of god's love, a fountain of pollution is deep within thy nature, and thou livest as a winter tree, unprofitable, fit only to be hewn down and burned. Steep thy life in prayer, and hope that god sees fit to show mercy on thy corrupted soul."
@@lucassolomon1079 Sorry for the lack of context. The VVitchfinder General of Massachusetts Colony is one of Atun-Shie's characters on his channel. I agree, that quote is really cool in a disturbing manner.
I have held a fascination for this bit of history for some time. My late wife's grandmother was a Trepagnier and descendant of Francois Trepagnier. The first I ever heard of this revolt was in family lore told to me when I married into the family. My parochial education in New Orleans never mentioned it. Thanks for this.
This might be my favorite collaboration effort between two TH-camrs. AtunShei understands the local history and culture and contextualizes it, while Karl understands the military and firearms aspects. And both always question the historical narrative and motivations in how history is recorded. It shows how to people who are specialized in very similar topics, but with different viewpoints, can really uncover the discrepancies the other may have missed and form a more sound understanding of what really may have happened. Really great work! Edit: I think this really shines in the discussion about "why would the guns be stored in the basement?" because that would be something that would easily be missed if you just read it and didn't have both perspectives on the ground. Always question the narrative.
John McCusker's words in the end are so true! You are not your ancestors and you are not responsible for their deeds. But you are obliged to acknowledge their crimes and failures. I'm German and by no means am I responsible for the things that my grandfather and especially his two brothers did during their military service, nor am I accountable for what the entire country did during the second world war. But hell do I have an obligation to prevent that from ever happening again!
I agree. But unfortunately we have seen far too many too times the sons and daughters of the victims try to paint the hang the sins of the father on the fathers descendants. That's how blood fueds start. In the past I've made the statement that the reason that group A hates group B is that 5000 years ago somebody stole* somebody elses sheep. *or other things
@@mpetersen6 the thing is though the sons and daughters of the ones who committed the crime often hear an incorrect version of the truth because those who committed the crime don’t want to be the evil ones. They teach their children that they were the real victims and then the system that allowed those crimes to happen can somewhat continue and the children of the victims are still victimized. For example after the civil war the south really pushed the narrative that they were the victims and that the north waged a war of aggression and were the real evil. And while slavery was no more the former slaves were still victimized by things like Jim Crow laws designed by those who had committed crimes in the first place
As a Brit I feel you, man. As a kid I met an old man who had been in a Boer war concentration camp. He had decided to talk to an Englishman before he died. I listened to what he told me, and as I got older I've tried to understand what happened. It's not a simple truth, but I do make an effort to be better because better is good.
That was the perfect clip to end the video. So many people avoid this topic because they identify so heavily with these past individuals and feel attacked because of this identity. An attack on the slavers is an attack on them. But this isn't an attack on them but solely on the slavers.
Someone needs to make Mr. McCusker's last sentence in this video a meme, t-shirt, go viral etc. because he just said in one sentence the very thing that could have resolved so many current racial issues in our country if more people had just realized it. Well done video Karl and Atun-Shei. Thank you for not just setting the record a little straighter but also bringing this part of the record to light.
A pivotal event in American history I would have never known about without this series and Atun-Shei's older video, great stuff, hope to see more of you two in the future
Thanks for adding to the narrative of history not taught in public schools, I Thank You for bringing these to light. I have never heard of this confrontation.
It can be hard sometimes to find gun enthusiast and History/Americana content creators to scratch my itch for that without having to wince and ignore a particular type of bullheaded political and historical blindness that hurts my enjoyment of topics I love. Your collaboration with Atun Shei brought one more well armed snowflake history nerd into the fold.
I absolutely love that you guys are doing these history videos. In a time when these perspectives in American History are modern battle grounds I am happy to see one of my favorite channels using their platform to tell uncomfortable stories
The Kid Ory House logo is neat; with the broken chain flag and the trombone. This was a really interesting discussion on the possible historical truth behind the events.
I love the collaboration Karl. I love watching Atun-Shei's videos on his channel (love your videos also. I miss you doing talks with other people like this, like you used to do with Ian regularly).
Eh, I don't know about that theory that it wasn't West African culture to kill the enemy. That's not how things went down in Haiti. Not even close. I think it's more likely that maybe nobody in this small group was ready to cross that line quite yet, especially the leader because he knew the guy. It was also the very first act of the revolt. If none of them had ever killed anyone before, it'd be totally understandable for them to hesitate at that critical turning point.
Yeah the "distinctly European to kill your enemy" just doesn't wash with the history of human warfare. (Which has piles of examples of non European exterminations.)
They didn’t say that it wasn’t in West African culture to kill the enemy, they, as well as the Native Americans, certainly did that. What they were saying is that, unlike in European culture, killing the enemy was not the ONLY approach for West African cultures, they also used shame and humiliation as strategic options, which is likely what happened in this case.
@@asas-mb4wj Well I mean that's a valid point; they weren't killers. Maybe they could've fucked up the hit because they were all decent dudes pushed to the breaking point but then had to defend themselves against the son with a sword while the dad escaped. Who knows, that's why this shit is so fascinating.
@@stelioeffrena1571 Yes, hostage taking seemed like just as viable, or just to keep the enemy alive for public humiliation until he can buy his freedom
This is a wonderful pair of videos. I watched the one on Atun-Shei's channel first and then the Alternative Perspactive as second, that felt like the natural progression. As a non-American, I barely knew more about this event than its name. I'm going to watch Atun-Shei's older video now...
This is the first time I've come across your channel before, and thank you very much for doing this video series! I grew up near Houston, Texas, and the 1811 revolt was NEVER mentioned in any of my history classes. This made me aware that the struggle for civil rights for people of color in particular has a much longer history than the privileged view of history normally tells. I'd also like to thank you for working with Atun Shei Films on this. The interaction and differing perspectives the two of you brought to the subject made it all come to life in ways I wouldn't have expected otherwise. Well deserved kudos to both of you!
If you guys decide to do some more vids in the South - A trip to and a talk about the "Negro Fort" in FL would be something I know I'd enjoy - I feel like a lot of that era of US history is forgotten
Great video, my roots trace right back to the Warrens of the Mayflower and I love watching anything on early American history. Men like you are doing the great service of keeping the real history alive. Unfortunately a lot of our early history has been whitewashed. Thank you gentlemen keep up the great work
I was wondering about the possibility that Andry himself increased the number of people who came to attack him, to make the rebels seem weak and his escape sound more impressive
I really like the video however I feel like some things are shaky. 1. There is NO WAY 500 men faced 80 and failed to inflict a single casualty. I feel like this was glossed over. It ridiculous to say that they just ran out of ammunition and that’s why they lost as most, if not all of them had no firearms and instead were armed with melee weapons. They should have easily been able to overrun the 80 men. Something has been left out 2. There is no was 20 slaves armed with axes couldn’t kill 1 man, just saying he fought his was through them makes no sense. Even if he was hit with 1 axe blow, there is no way he could have got all the way to the city and then led a militia 2 days later. I feel like these things need to be clarified
Some years back there was a documentary about an archeological dig on some slave quarters at a coastal plantation. They found evidence of firearms in a couple of the slave quarters. The supposition was that were they for hunting purposes.
Plantation owners would drop off working parties to clear land, as they would be by themselves for weeks they armed the head man " for hunting " as only given grain to eat. Gun or no gun they hunted anyway.
There might have been different factions within the rebel group, some of whom wanted revenge and to kill Andry and others who sought a moral high ground or to minimize reprisals (or both). Perhaps the latter faction were able to prevent the former from killing Andry, but unable to stop the desecration of his son's body. It strikes me as incongruous that they would allow one to live but impale the other (kill him in seIf defense sure, but not hang him up on the door). If Andry only survived because he was saved by an enslaved person he would probably want to keep that secret. I also imagine some of the rebels may have been younger with few or no attachments to deter from a natural desire for revenge, but other rebels may have had families to worry about (perhaps some on other plantations) which would have caused discord.
And this is why I love this channel. The history we all read, are written by the winners. They dictate their view. Never wrong to tear it apart and look at it from a non bias view :)
Hypothetically speaking it is possible that the militia had some guns stored in his house, as the area wasn't so much of a "frontier" situation anymore. While each man may have had some hunting rifles and shotguns there's really no reason for them to keep a musket(which isn't really an appropriate hunting weapon) at their house. Speaking from another perspective, are you really going to trust all these hundreds of men with muskets they'll use maybe once or twice a year for drill and not let them rust or give them proper maintenance? I think the likely thing is that there probably was a stockpile of muskets, albeit small, at the house. They would have had to have been stored very well, probably wrapped in oil cloths and in some sort of water-tight barrel or sealed crate. These muskets may have even been held in reserve as extra arms in case they needed to arm more men or some weapons broke. Then I think to answer your question about how no whites were killed would be the simple fact that the slaves probably didn't know how to properly load, aim, or fire a musket.
New subscriber, found your channel through your outstanding collaborations with Atun Shei Films. I'm addicted to high quality educational entertainment. Thanks for creating my next fix.😁✌🖖
More seriously, it's so frustrating that with enslaved people not being allowed to read or write, plus the fact that any writings wouldn't have been preserved, that we don't have any record of what these rebels were thinking at the time. Endless tomes from presidents and governors, but not a single line of text from any of these men fighting for their lives and their children's lives. Just....uggggghhhh
The limitations of the muskets as force multipliers speaks volumes about their role in how the conquistadores felled the Incas and Aztecs (Triple Alliance). It wasn't so much the guns or the horses or the steel (horses were pretty useless in the mountainous Inca empire, for instance). What mattered was disease crippling large swathes of the population, internal civic divisions that weakened both polities, and the Spanish ability to turn subject populations against their overlords in numbers large enough to sway the course of battle.
I dont think a revolt would have ever have succeeded in the US. If it ever gained ground and success, The Union would have crushed it. That said, it may very well have changed the view of slaves. Though tbh im not sure for the best, Black slaves may have been seen as more a threat. *sigh* the tragedy of slavery.
Europeans are not the only ones that had a penchant for killing. The Mongols if they were defied would wipe out all life including the dogs of a major city. But, yes one should not assume everyone conducts warfare in the same way as the British.
Ya that was kind of naive. There's were many indigenous societies in both south and north America whome which massacred other populations not to mention throughout the history of the African continent too.
So much for the accuracy of this video! The portrait it shows next to the bed where Andre was murdered is of his uncle Andre Deslonde, who lived on a nearby plantation. I own it . Charles Deslonde murdered a Deslonde. Andy's mother was the sister of Andre Deslonde,as in the painting you showed in error.
![ไลฟ์สุ่ม iPhone 295 บาท... โกงมั้ย?[ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.97 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gdstHEE4UUE/mqdefault.jpg)
Be sure to also check out Atun-Shei's video, which is essential to fill in more information that's not discussed in this episode, here:
th-cam.com/video/zyiD6MNIYSg/w-d-xo.html
@@mycosys ditto.
Yah ditto
How accurate is Rasmussen's American Uprising on this event?
Historical themed 2 gun match with Atun Shei when?
well...I'm here because of Atun-Shei... so there...
and as much as I am a history nerd, I'm not a gun nerd, jessayin,
but I'll like, and watch some more of your stuff to think out about subbing
Atun-shei demonstrating his right to bare arms
You have no right to my arms! - a bare, probably.
Checkmate, Lincolnites!!!
@@averagejoe112 kinda surprised by this colab particularly because of comments Atun-shei has made (such as those about republicans)
edit: to Atun-shei's credit he dose really good research the issues tho is his bias's show quite strongly in alot of his content
On a related note, can anyone make out what's the tattoo on his arm or is that a coverup or something? Bothers me unreasonably that I can't tell
@@AB-pp2zy I think it's a cat, but I could be wrong
You're telling me the slave owners and the militia members may have exaggerated how vicious and well-armed their opponents were in order to make their own exploits seem more justified and heroic?
*GASP*
Yeah, that tracks.
@@SimuLord and he cut a lot of Gaulish hands.
@@SimuLord True. He's one of our only sources for that war.
That being said, when you look at his achievements afterwards during the civil war and all the campaigns he won, his reputation is well-earned. Also, while Caesar probably engaged in some embellishment, his book is actually pretty well backed by archaeological finds. And when you consider he was there (unlike ancient Historians writing decades, if not centuries, after something happened) and that he actually beat the Gauls, there are good reasons to consider it an accurate source.
I would also add that forging your reputation as a weapon is a Great Skill for a general to have.
I'm shocked, SHOCKED!
@@flacojimenez3017 What do you mean, "Africans"? I mean, exclude Ethiopia and its native literary tradition, the Mahgreb, and a ton of others including further South West and maybe that is accurate. As far as I know, anyway, equally maybe not. As for New Africans (West of the Atlantic), the literature goes way back into the 19th century. Unless you're referring specifically to very early New African history as recorded by New Africans, in which case you have a point. There again history has always been written by the owning classes and so it shouldn't be surprising. There's tragically little white working class/underclass primary recorded history either from that time.
And had zero casualties.
"...their sin is not mine... unless I fail to acknowledge theirs." Truer words are rarely spoken.
Great quote
It don't fly with me
Had not seen your comment whe I wrote mine, that says the same thing! Amazing quote!
As I saw someone else say before: "If the Germans acknowledge Mozart, then they should acknowledge Hitler even more"
@@teslashark especially as both of the people you mentioned are Austrians not Germans :D
"I'm not responsible for that, and their sin is not mine... Unless I fail to acknowledge theirs." That is one heck of an excellent perspective.
That was very powerful.
It's the only way to look at it that makes sense.
@@jeffslote9671 so in your mind what's wrong with America is recognizing, acknowledging, and shining a light on the atrocities in its past and committed by your ancestors? Is that actually what you're saying here?
@@jeffslote9671 except that the past is still holding them back. If you knew anything about history you'd know how many times attempts at building strong black communities and wealth has been met with actual violence and destruction, how that's made it impossible for them to catch up to white people economically and in terms of other things like education, and how much of the underlying bigotry hasn't gone away but instead gotten more insidious and better at hiding itself from people who never examine your society at anything more than the most superficial of surface levels.
Like your understanding of history and modern systems of oppression has to be so deficient to make the statements you have that it's equal parts mind boggling and horrifying. But then it's probably not entirely your fault. America in general, and it's education systems particularly in certain States, have always cared more about hiding American atrocities than about teaching people how your history has shaped the country to this day.
You owe it to yourself, your country, and people of colour who are your fellow citizens to educate yourself because this sort of naivety only ensures that things take decades longer to improve than they should.
@@jeffslote9671 So I should hold a young German person accountable for my grandfather working as a forced labour in the war?
Alternative theory: the rebels took Andry hostage in order to get him to hand over weapons. They don't tie him up because they need him to take them to where the guns are and potentially unlock the door. Knowing that all the militia's weapons were in members' houses, so he can't give them anything, and fearing that they'll kill him when he admits that, Andry seizes a chance to get away and runs and hides. The rebels take revenge by killing his son, but needing to keep the momentum of the revolution going, they have to leave, allowing Andry to emerge from hiding. Andry then lies about the incident because he knows his actions got his son killed.
Sounds plausible tbh
Alternative theory: as suggested in the video, they were too humane to kill him when he was defenceless. Even in armed conventional warfare men sometimes struggle to kill.
The revenge killing doesn’t make sense to me but the Hostage/Escape scenario does, as does the hiding. I can see the son getting killed in an ineffective armed rescue attempt, but this idea that the rebels entered that bedroom with intent to murder and then failed to do so seems incredible. They probably beat him up, maybe even cut him as he escaped, but the whole situation screams “failed hostage taking” not “attempted murder”.
Yeah I was thinking like how in the ever loving fuck do you and your armed homies sneak up on a sleeping dude, surround him, and then not kill the dude?
@@striatic I don't think it "screams" anything. I think we have no real way to verify exactly what took place. We have no way to do that at all. It could be either one.
Atun Shei has done stellar work in all manner of fields including making me want to visit New Orleans.
You should go. It's one of the most unique interesting cities in the US.
It seems to me as an european like the only major center in the US that is even remotely organic and livable.
I'm really glad to see you two continue collaborating. On a related note, last time you met up, I posed a question about the access to firearms for former slaves in the Reconstruction-era South.
For anyone interested, in the time since then, I found a few articles on the topic which offer a solid introduction to the methods and motivations of disarmament, as well as the sadly deficient countervailing attempts to keep former slaves armed in accordance with their rights:
"Freedmen with Firearms: White Terrorism and Black Disarmament During Reconstruction"
"The Arming and Disarming of Black America"
"The Limits of Incorporation: Violence, Gun Rights, and Gun Regulation in the Reconstruction South"
Necessarily a bit legal-heavy, but worth a read!
Additionally, the latter of the three opens with reference to the Battle of Liberty Place, an event which could use the InRange treatment.
May have something for you on that. Contact me at 1811 Kid Ory Historic House
Gun control has always been racist.
I also found this article interesting:
Mark Anthony Frassetto, The Law and Politics of Firearms Regulation in Reconstruction Texas, 4 Tex. A&M L. Rev. 95 (2016)
Twenty armed slaves, most of whom probably where very strong from a life of hard physical labor, would have no trouble killing one sleeping man in his bed. I think there is no question that they let him go. A more interesting question is why.
Yeah. Exactly.
I think it far more likely that he was not asleep. Other slave uprisings killed the master. They weren't stupid, they would know he would raise the alarm and he most certainly was the main cause of their suffering. I think he was forewarned or discovered the plot and the slaves were forced into action
Men in uniformed conventional war baulk at killing. Maybe they simply didn't want to, being humane. This would not fit the narrative from a slave owning point of view, which explains the odd escape tale.
That said I've seen with my own eyes a man who had been attacked with axe with multiple wounds sauntering casually around. So much so that thanks to a language barrier I didn't know he was in such a bad way and failed to get him assistance as fast as he needed.
I'm going to guess that some started to hack Andrey up and someone said wait we need a hostage and in that pause the son appears with a sword and Andrey was able to escape.
You have to take into account their food though. Slaves were generally speaking not as well fed as free men and it's not uncommon for them to be malnourished. It should also be added that fresh meat were for a long time something of a luxury, so protein were more scarce among common people and slaves especially.
So in a time when more or less everyone performed some form of physical labour (especially from a modern point of view), only the wealthy few had the diet to grow up into strong, tall people.
(Not saying that it means that one free person is stronger than twenty armed slaves, but it's an often overlooked aspect)
You two are so awesome and I love your delivery style, both of you.
The three of you should do a collaboration. Locks and security of early American armoires, or something
@@GR-kt4le I would definitely do a collaboration with the two of them about enjoying lots of local oysters and such a New Orleans. Discussion of history could be incidental. :-)
After hearing the known facts, as a retired CSI, I can see two likely possibilities.
1, The number of active participants in the bedroom were less than reported and many of those were not fully committed. It's also probable the son's intervention diverted the attention of the attackers allowing his injured father to escape.
2, It's possible the true or primary target of their rage was the son. It might have been his treatment of the slaves which sparked the uprising. The fact that he was left pinned to the door suggests great anger and hatred.
Don't forget to see things from the the perspective of the time. Multiple slashes from filthy farm empliments could most likely result in death from infection. An individual can be stiched up, return to battle and still die from infection a week later. In this case the use of the words mortally wounded could indicate that the man's life was still in danger at the time the article was written.
Lou£
This was the largest slave revolt in American history and it happened in my backyard. Yet I didn't even know about it until I was in graduate school.
On purpose, of course.
It's because the US school system is racist.
you two go troll somewhere else pls
@@Spunney Not trolling, telling the truth.
@@LunaDevaKitty idk where you grew up, but throughout my schooling in the united states, history regarding slavery was talked about in every year, and only ever with disdain. maybe you grew up somewhere different, but to imply your experiences reflect that of an entire country's and then to write it off as "racist" is just... daft. i am confident that most schools here teach the horrors of slavery
I really appreciate these looks into facets of American history I would normally hear nothing about, thanks for the video!
Same. 💙
To further corroborate the claim that guns were not kept in the "basement," I doubt that actual Revolutionary War veterans would have bailed on their organizational model so quickly.
And they probably didn’t have basements, on account of the water table
@@trevorcorey7910 Absolutely, in this area almost all houses are on raised foundations and cellars and basements simply don't exist.
Another thought on that front: If that had been the militia's store of arms and they had been taken, where did the militia get the guns they used suppressing the rebellion?
The obvious answer is that they didn't get them from some store, but had them ready at their homes.
Mind you it's likely the rebels got some guns at the house. He would likely have had his personal weapons.
Yeah, I just don’t see a grass roots local militia having an armory they’d need to arm themselves from. If surplus rifles were so abundant, everybody would have a few anyway thus negating the need for an armory.
As an Aussie who fell in love with New Orleans, anyone who has the ability should absolutely visit. It's an incredible place that no description can quite capture and the history lives there in a very unique way. Plus the mix of cultures means there's endless great food. In fact, the only downside for me was the necessity to exist while breathing low-pressure steam!
It is an amazing place.
...I seem to remember a blog kept by a resident of New Orleans called "Humid Beings." 😁
Cool place, sometimes smells like piss.
@@grmpEqweer 😂 Definitely sounds right! It reminds me of tropical Queensland, except I don't want to avoid it like the plague (that joke played differently the last time I used it!).
That’s the rustiest roof I’ve seen in a while.
....not rust...patina
Yah old metal is sometimes known to do that.
In the North the cars rust. In the South the cars stay solid but everything else rusts to death!
"Love Shack"
Pretty common here.
You helped me discover Atun-Shei and I've binged watched all his videos - Checkmate Lincolnites!!
VVitchfinder General of Massachusetts Colony, "Thou art a wretched sinner, utterly unworthy of god's love, a fountain of pollution is deep within thy nature, and thou livest as a winter tree, unprofitable, fit only to be hewn down and burned. Steep thy life in prayer, and hope that god sees fit to show mercy on thy corrupted soul."
welcome to the gang
I shall heed the Witch-finder General's advise and deliver you unto the magistrate in the shire in which you dwell!
@@euansmith3699 I don't know what was said, but thanks for this quote. I'm a fan.
@@lucassolomon1079 Sorry for the lack of context. The VVitchfinder General of Massachusetts Colony is one of Atun-Shie's characters on his channel. I agree, that quote is really cool in a disturbing manner.
I have held a fascination for this bit of history for some time. My late wife's grandmother was a Trepagnier and descendant of Francois Trepagnier. The first I ever heard of this revolt was in family lore told to me when I married into the family. My parochial education in New Orleans never mentioned it.
Thanks for this.
This might be my favorite collaboration effort between two TH-camrs. AtunShei understands the local history and culture and contextualizes it, while Karl understands the military and firearms aspects. And both always question the historical narrative and motivations in how history is recorded. It shows how to people who are specialized in very similar topics, but with different viewpoints, can really uncover the discrepancies the other may have missed and form a more sound understanding of what really may have happened. Really great work!
Edit: I think this really shines in the discussion about "why would the guns be stored in the basement?" because that would be something that would easily be missed if you just read it and didn't have both perspectives on the ground. Always question the narrative.
Just a gentle reminder that this channel, supporting thoughtful discourse on heavy topics is shadowbanned from TH-cam.
Yep. :(
What does that mean?
It is heavily or completely suppressed in the recommendations and notifications arbitrarily @@PaulSullivan828
@@PaulSullivan828 It means a channel can be tough to pull up in a search, and is never recommended by the algorithm
John McCusker's words in the end are so true! You are not your ancestors and you are not responsible for their deeds. But you are obliged to acknowledge their crimes and failures.
I'm German and by no means am I responsible for the things that my grandfather and especially his two brothers did during their military service, nor am I accountable for what the entire country did during the second world war. But hell do I have an obligation to prevent that from ever happening again!
I agree. But unfortunately we have seen far too many too times the sons and daughters of the victims try to paint the hang the sins of the father on the fathers descendants. That's how blood fueds start. In the past I've made the statement that the reason that group A hates group B is that 5000 years ago somebody stole* somebody elses sheep.
*or other things
@@mpetersen6 the thing is though the sons and daughters of the ones who committed the crime often hear an incorrect version of the truth because those who committed the crime don’t want to be the evil ones. They teach their children that they were the real victims and then the system that allowed those crimes to happen can somewhat continue and the children of the victims are still victimized. For example after the civil war the south really pushed the narrative that they were the victims and that the north waged a war of aggression and were the real evil. And while slavery was no more the former slaves were still victimized by things like Jim Crow laws designed by those who had committed crimes in the first place
As a Brit I feel you, man. As a kid I met an old man who had been in a Boer war concentration camp. He had decided to talk to an Englishman before he died. I listened to what he told me, and as I got older I've tried to understand what happened. It's not a simple truth, but I do make an effort to be better because better is good.
A piece of advice shared with me by a Marine, “if the enemy is in range; so are you”.
That piece at the end was profound. “Their sin isn’t mine, unless I fail to acknowledge it”
That was the perfect clip to end the video. So many people avoid this topic because they identify so heavily with these past individuals and feel attacked because of this identity. An attack on the slavers is an attack on them. But this isn't an attack on them but solely on the slavers.
Someone needs to make Mr. McCusker's last sentence in this video a meme, t-shirt, go viral etc. because he just said in one sentence the very thing that could have resolved so many current racial issues in our country if more people had just realized it. Well done video Karl and Atun-Shei. Thank you for not just setting the record a little straighter but also bringing this part of the record to light.
A pivotal event in American history I would have never known about without this series and Atun-Shei's older video, great stuff, hope to see more of you two in the future
Thanks for adding to the narrative of history not taught in public schools, I Thank You for bringing these to light. I have never heard of this confrontation.
If you two get along and start doing historical road trips - I'm in! Let's go!
I am totally down with this idea! We could be like Phish fans and just follow them around the country for weeks at a time...
It can be hard sometimes to find gun enthusiast and History/Americana content creators to scratch my itch for that without having to wince and ignore a particular type of bullheaded political and historical blindness that hurts my enjoyment of topics I love.
Your collaboration with Atun Shei brought one more well armed snowflake history nerd into the fold.
I have a very similar problem. Karls part of the problem
I absolutely love that you guys are doing these history videos. In a time when these perspectives in American History are modern battle grounds I am happy to see one of my favorite channels using their platform to tell uncomfortable stories
Two of my favorite TH-cam channels collaborating! Great stuff! Great video!
These are by far some of the best content and the reason I'm a patreon! Please keep this type of video going!
The Kid Ory House logo is neat; with the broken chain flag and the trombone.
This was a really interesting discussion on the possible historical truth behind the events.
I love the collaboration Karl. I love watching Atun-Shei's videos on his channel (love your videos also. I miss you doing talks with other people like this, like you used to do with Ian regularly).
Eh, I don't know about that theory that it wasn't West African culture to kill the enemy. That's not how things went down in Haiti. Not even close. I think it's more likely that maybe nobody in this small group was ready to cross that line quite yet, especially the leader because he knew the guy. It was also the very first act of the revolt. If none of them had ever killed anyone before, it'd be totally understandable for them to hesitate at that critical turning point.
Why does everyone seem like they want to rewrite history?
Yeah the "distinctly European to kill your enemy" just doesn't wash with the history of human warfare. (Which has piles of examples of non European exterminations.)
They didn’t say that it wasn’t in West African culture to kill the enemy, they, as well as the Native Americans, certainly did that. What they were saying is that, unlike in European culture, killing the enemy was not the ONLY approach for West African cultures, they also used shame and humiliation as strategic options, which is likely what happened in this case.
@@asas-mb4wj Well I mean that's a valid point; they weren't killers. Maybe they could've fucked up the hit because they were all decent dudes pushed to the breaking point but then had to defend themselves against the son with a sword while the dad escaped. Who knows, that's why this shit is so fascinating.
@@stelioeffrena1571 Yes, hostage taking seemed like just as viable, or just to keep the enemy alive for public humiliation until he can buy his freedom
I loved that bit at the end about acknowledging the bad parts of your history
Thanks, Karl, for bringing attention to oft forgotten and purposefully overlooked fights for freedom. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the great content, Karl!
Glad you enjoy it!
guys, another excellent segment and i really enjoy your historic deep dives, thanks jj
This is a wonderful pair of videos. I watched the one on Atun-Shei's channel first and then the Alternative Perspactive as second, that felt like the natural progression.
As a non-American, I barely knew more about this event than its name. I'm going to watch Atun-Shei's older video now...
Awesome, didn't realize this was a colab but luckily youtube put it up, love this stuff and great video!!
I've enjoyed both parts of this project. I'm glad you paired up to tell different parts of the story. There's so much to learn.
Thanks for keeping us informed Karl. Glad you directed us to Atun!
Here from Athunshei’s channel - loving this!
This is the first time I've come across your channel before, and thank you very much for doing this video series! I grew up near Houston, Texas, and the 1811 revolt was NEVER mentioned in any of my history classes. This made me aware that the struggle for civil rights for people of color in particular has a much longer history than the privileged view of history normally tells.
I'd also like to thank you for working with Atun Shei Films on this. The interaction and differing perspectives the two of you brought to the subject made it all come to life in ways I wouldn't have expected otherwise. Well deserved kudos to both of you!
Loving this variety of Atun-Shei collabs, giving me a bunch of fun history channels to follow. You have yourself a subscription, sir!
If you guys decide to do some more vids in the South - A trip to and a talk about the "Negro Fort" in FL would be something I know I'd enjoy - I feel like a lot of that era of US history is forgotten
I love the history crossover between film and firearm.
Great video, my roots trace right back to the Warrens of the Mayflower and I love watching anything on early American history. Men like you are doing the great service of keeping the real history alive. Unfortunately a lot of our early history has been whitewashed. Thank you gentlemen keep up the great work
Hands-On History: I always look forward to these additions
Excellent video. I’ve honestly never heard of this event. Thank you both for educating me.
I've been hoping for this crossover for ever. Love both of your channels.
I love these historical videos. Great job and keep up the good work!
I'm 68 , and I learned about this in 7th grade . Thank you for the gift of history Mr.Hall .
I was wondering about the possibility that Andry himself increased the number of people who came to attack him, to make the rebels seem weak and his escape sound more impressive
Good video Karl, always enjoy your collaborations with Atun-Shei. You work really well off each other.
I really like the video however I feel like some things are shaky.
1. There is NO WAY 500 men faced 80 and failed to inflict a single casualty. I feel like this was glossed over. It ridiculous to say that they just ran out of ammunition and that’s why they lost as most, if not all of them had no firearms and instead were armed with melee weapons. They should have easily been able to overrun the 80 men. Something has been left out
2. There is no was 20 slaves armed with axes couldn’t kill 1 man, just saying he fought his was through them makes no sense. Even if he was hit with 1 axe blow, there is no way he could have got all the way to the city and then led a militia 2 days later.
I feel like these things need to be clarified
Some years back there was a documentary about an archeological dig on some slave quarters at a coastal plantation. They found evidence of firearms in a couple of the slave quarters. The supposition was that were they for hunting purposes.
Plantation owners would drop off working parties to clear land, as they would be by themselves for weeks they armed the head man " for hunting " as only given grain to eat. Gun or no gun they hunted anyway.
Outstanding video! Thank you both!!
So happy to see this video done
Excellent colaboration
There might have been different factions within the rebel group, some of whom wanted revenge and to kill Andry and others who sought a moral high ground or to minimize reprisals (or both). Perhaps the latter faction were able to prevent the former from killing Andry, but unable to stop the desecration of his son's body. It strikes me as incongruous that they would allow one to live but impale the other (kill him in seIf defense sure, but not hang him up on the door). If Andry only survived because he was saved by an enslaved person he would probably want to keep that secret. I also imagine some of the rebels may have been younger with few or no attachments to deter from a natural desire for revenge, but other rebels may have had families to worry about (perhaps some on other plantations) which would have caused discord.
And this is why I love this channel. The history we all read, are written by the winners. They dictate their view. Never wrong to tear it apart and look at it from a non bias view :)
"Their sins are not mine. Unless I fail to acknowledge theirs" Truer words are hard to come by. Love your videos Carl! Keep up the great work!
Awesome- another collab from two of my favs 🤘🏻
Hypothetically speaking it is possible that the militia had some guns stored in his house, as the area wasn't so much of a "frontier" situation anymore. While each man may have had some hunting rifles and shotguns there's really no reason for them to keep a musket(which isn't really an appropriate hunting weapon) at their house. Speaking from another perspective, are you really going to trust all these hundreds of men with muskets they'll use maybe once or twice a year for drill and not let them rust or give them proper maintenance? I think the likely thing is that there probably was a stockpile of muskets, albeit small, at the house. They would have had to have been stored very well, probably wrapped in oil cloths and in some sort of water-tight barrel or sealed crate. These muskets may have even been held in reserve as extra arms in case they needed to arm more men or some weapons broke. Then I think to answer your question about how no whites were killed would be the simple fact that the slaves probably didn't know how to properly load, aim, or fire a musket.
Atun-shei brought me here. I appreciate your work gave you a sub.
Another great video, keep exposing the selectively forgotten history that doesn’t get taught.
Powerful conclusion for a very instructive and important content ❤
Love to see collabs with two of my favorite creators
The true American ideal, fighting for freedom. Wish this was held up as an example of American revolutionary activity opposed to the footnote it is.
At no point were americans ever fighting for freedom. The slaves werent america and americans always fought for land
Just come over from atun shei. Really enjoyed this. New subscriber.
New subscriber, found your channel through your outstanding collaborations with Atun Shei Films. I'm addicted to high quality educational entertainment. Thanks for creating my next fix.😁✌🖖
More seriously, it's so frustrating that with enslaved people not being allowed to read or write, plus the fact that any writings wouldn't have been preserved, that we don't have any record of what these rebels were thinking at the time. Endless tomes from presidents and governors, but not a single line of text from any of these men fighting for their lives and their children's lives. Just....uggggghhhh
The limitations of the muskets as force multipliers speaks volumes about their role in how the conquistadores felled the Incas and Aztecs (Triple Alliance). It wasn't so much the guns or the horses or the steel (horses were pretty useless in the mountainous Inca empire, for instance). What mattered was disease crippling large swathes of the population, internal civic divisions that weakened both polities, and the Spanish ability to turn subject populations against their overlords in numbers large enough to sway the course of battle.
Fantastic video. Love both channels, and I really enjoy the crossover. These history videos are awesome
Magnificent. Simply magnificent. Both of you. I've watched you guys individually but great idea coming together on this one.
Fascinating video as always
An impressive take on this incident! Really enjoy these historical breakdowns.
What words of wisdom that should be universal. “Their sins are not my sins unless I refuse to acknowledge theirs”
Great video guys! A much needed spotlight on forgotten history.
Excellent Collab. The Bad Religion name drop was the cherry on top.
The slave rebellion was my favorite part of middle school history.
Thanks for teaching me something new and awesome as always!
Wow its Atun-Shei with Karl! Two top blokes!
I dont think a revolt would have ever have succeeded in the US. If it ever gained ground and success, The Union would have crushed it. That said, it may very well have changed the view of slaves. Though tbh im not sure for the best, Black slaves may have been seen as more a threat.
*sigh* the tragedy of slavery.
Yup
Youre probably right, but even a quashed revolt can win political concessions
Even more tragic the slaves who believe they are free.
The Nat Turner revolt was far worse in terms of savagery on both sides and loss of life.
Just subscribed. Great video, and I was lucky to find you on Atun-Shei. Can't wait to watch more of your stuff
I enjoyed the video, and I learned something too.
I love the softer more speculative but very sensible history bit here. Well done!
Europeans are not the only ones that had a penchant for killing. The Mongols if they were defied would wipe out all life including the dogs of a major city. But, yes one should not assume everyone conducts warfare in the same way as the British.
Ya that was kind of naive. There's were many indigenous societies in both south and north America whome which massacred other populations not to mention throughout the history of the African continent too.
I hoped you'd get around to more collabs, it's great to hear more about the less well known segments of history.
thanks for making this video
This is why I love yall!
Very interesting video. I also enjoyed the Bad Religion quotation.
Atun-Shei collabs are always awesome
So much for the accuracy of this video! The portrait it shows next to the bed where Andre was murdered is of his uncle Andre Deslonde, who lived on a nearby plantation. I own it . Charles Deslonde murdered a Deslonde. Andy's mother was the sister of Andre Deslonde,as in the painting you showed in error.
"...unless I fail to acknowledge theirs."
Atun -shei is starting to looking like a freed POW.
Hell yeah Atun shei and InRange what a collab
Holy crap I only realized who you were in his video when I clicked this one just now, I knew I seen you, turns out I’m subscribed! ♥️
3:59 🤩