Thunder Offseason Preview | Game Theory Podcast w/ Sam Vecenie
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2024
- Sam Vecenie and Bryce Simon breakdown the Oklahoma City Thunder's offseason.
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Sam Vecenie, a Senior NBA Writer at The Athletic, talks all about basketball. From the NBA, to the NBA Draft, to college hoops and even some high school, Vecenie is has you covered in this show. - กีฬา
Thunder absolutely should not trade for Randle and I’m confident Presti feels the same. Dude is terrible in big games, inconsistent shooting and defense and would demand touches that should be going to JDub and Chet. I agree with you most of time Sam but that sounds bad to me there have to be more reasonable options to get what they need in terms of rebounding and physicality
Also known to pout on the court, bad fit culture wise
If Sam is being true to his word, the thunder won’t be trading for any player that requires a lot of shots, he is focused on allowing the big three to grow and flourish, so players like kuzma, Lauri, Randle, etc wouldn’t fit Sam’s narrative.
Agreed, to me go for Lauri as he fits the timeline gives you a little playmaking gives you some rebounding and keeps the 5 out offense.
They then need to draft that massive player coming out this yr edey or whatever to have a banger for the big c in the league.
I'd then go out and max out my cap on physical or hustle vets with contracts that drop off when it's time to pay chet and jdubb
@@dustinsirois4788 Lauri is a pipe dream. Yall are like Toronto fans who kept saying we should trade them sga.
@MrWesleyton he probs is now ya no point for Utah to trade him even if they offer something like 5 firsts. Still tho a player like him kd would fit if the sun's wanna recoup picks...not ideal but would help
I think they'll probably keep Giddey. None of the options you've put forward fit the Thunder style (outside of Lauri of course).
I think people are underestimating how much the off the court stuff has tanked Giddey's value. Many teams will automatically dismiss the idea of trading for him now.
I think OKC will either trade for Capela or sign Hartenstein. Capela is on an expiring contract and the Hawks are looking to dump salary. So the Thunder may be able to get additional 2nd round picks in the trade. And both players give the Thunder the size they desperately need.
28th for Josh Giddy? Even I, would get more than that .
If either of you really knew or listened to Sam Presti at the end of the season presser, he told you how much they love and value Giddey. He isn’t going anywhere.
The Julius Randle thing has got to be a troll right? 😂
I can’t think of a worse trade. I’d actually rather go thru another year of Centers guarding Giddey than trade for Julius Randle. You gotta be trolling Sam 😂👏
I think you guys heavily undervalued Giddey.
Most people do, other than the man that matters(presti).
Oh wow, the suggestion of Julius Randle surprises me. He doesn't seem to fit OKC at all. As soon as I heard that name, I instinctively went "Ewww." Agreed that Lauri is the perfect guy, but agreed he's not leaving Utah. They won't be interested in Isaiah Stewart because of his contract. But this exercise you guys went through I think landed where I've been: There really aren't many options for what they're looking for. There are some factors that could lead you to believe a Giddey for Kuzma trade could materialize, but I don't really see that happening either. I ultimately don't expect them to focus on rebounding and think they'll focus on shooting and passing.
Isaiah Stewart is making 15 a year. Not cheap but not John Collins making 26.
@@Jaywrites23 It's not about the money, it's about the years. Isaiah Stewart is signed for four more seasons. That takes him well past the point when extensions for Chet and JDub would have kicked in, making the roster very expensive.
John Collins is under contract for two seasons and ends right as Chet and JDub's extensions kick in. I don't think the Thunder would take either guy, but I think they'd be more open to Collins than Stewart. Stewart would be an instant no. Collins could become a yes if the asset cost of getting him was low and the Thunder struck out on other ways to spend their cap space.
@@coreydemoss4781 that’s a good point, fair enough
Don’t think at all they are moving Giddy … only 21 & does so so many things very well !! I believe they will keep him & allow him to adjust his game to the 4th offensive option !! Call me crazy .. but think Jeng will gain more minutes & at 6-10 ….he might be their guy that’s already on the roster
I keep thinking about a Detroit trade. Let's say Sheppard falls to 5. He'd probably be the right pick in Detroit, but not perfect. So instead, what if the Thunder call. They offer 12, Joe, and a future first.
Detroit gets a known elite shooter. Joe isn't that big, but he can legitimately play next to both Cade and Ivey (Reed probably can't play next to Ivey). They get back to neutral on picks in/out. And, they still have a shot at 12 to get a quality piece.
OKC gets the premier dribble, pass, shoot guy in the draft. Sheppard provides more shot creation off the bench and he essentially resets the Joe slot for another 4 years. And, unlike Detroit, Sheppard lands in a system with teammates who can protect him on defense.
I'm not sure if this is too much or too little. But there's a lot of adjustment that can be made in the quality of that future pick OKC sends out.
As a Detroit fan I would absolutely do that for all the reasons you mentioned .
Although it probably needs to be a good first -- basically a lottery pick -- considering guys like the Gary's (Trent Jr and Harris) are similar players and cost nothing.
Although I think Presti would probably take Salaun there over Reed given his track record
Why would okc give up joe,12 and future 1st in a weak draft just to draft Sheppard when they can just draft McCain at 12 the 5th pick is no that valuable okc can get a established role player for joe and 12
@Wrestle_Kingdom Continued flexibility plus slightly better fit is my reasoning. Joe likely commands 20M+ per year. An equally established role player is going to be close to that. Sheppard would cost around 6.5M, and brings more playmaking skillet.
Obviously this depends a lot on OKC's evaluation of Sheppard. But there is a decent chance Giddey isn't long for OKC, and Reed helps shore up some of that skillset.
@@Wrestle_Kingdom Sheppard is probably that much better. Better athlete, more creation upside, and his feel on offense -- when to pass, when to shoot, when to relocate -- is so good. He'd be a perfect fit in OKC. Plus he's better on defense. He's a Derrick White/TJ McConnell type who just makes winning plays over and over.
McCain would be a solid Joe replacement but Sheppard would be an upgrade.
Trading Joe and 12 .... no contender is gonna trade someone better than Joe to get a pick but maybe Bogdanovic from Atlanta. Idk if Brooklyn would do DFS. Brogdan but that's really just for 12. You could probably have Keldon Johnson if that interests you. Maybe Sochan even depending on who SA drafts which is interesting.
Or perhaps most exciting, Brandon Clark from Memphis -- who could be OKC's Aaron Gordon. Would Memphis do that so they could package Kennard and both picks to make sure they get Clingan? Although BC has medical concerns that could be red flag
Did you have anyone particular in mind?
@@michaelahurt Sheppard fits what okc likes the problem is trading joe,and 12 and another first for him shepphard is good but not worth trading that much I don’t have any players in mind that would be traded for joe specifically but I think okc can just get something else that more of a priority than a guard
It would make more sense if okc did this to try to get a wing instead it not about getting the better player it about a player that helps Shepard would be fine but okc can just get McCain,dalton,or Carlton at 12 and be fine and make trades for an established player with their picks and add joe or giddey in package with picks
Patrick Williams is another Williams added to our 3 other Williams and if we draft Cody then we'd have 5🤣🤣🤣
Bringing in Randle would be a huge mistake.
Any plans of doing one of these for the Spurs?
They did it weeks ago. They're going in order of elimination.
Get Patrick Williams from the Bulls and then trade Giddey. Last three spots would be pick 12, whoever we sign with the MLE, and should have about 20 M or so depending on what Patrick Williams would cost (come on bulls, leave us Patrick Williams)
deni avdija seems like a good option
I thought of Randle but I'd be afraid he'd take too many shots. I love Bobby Portis. Maybe trade for Patrick Williams. Sign Bol Bol & draft Da'Ron Holmes. I think they'd sign Hartenstein if he'd take 2yrs 38mil.
If OKC trades Giddey, I feel like you need 3 positions; starting PF, a bench creator (unless Cason can develop into that), another bench big. They have 3 tradable 1st's for 2025 in Philly/Miami/Utah (probably keep their own that has Clipper/Rockets swaps) that they probably don't need/want. Unless Cody Williams is available at 12, I think they should consider trading Giddey and #12 for Deni Avdija, even if you have to throw one of those other picks in as well. If Washington takes Risacher, it seems like they could move off Avdija. Then if you could figure out how to pry Jonathan Isaac from Orlando, or Bobby Portis from Milwaukee, I'd rather trade Dieng than Kenrich, but you could easily move either of those guys in that deal and a 1st. If you can't get those guys, you might be better trying to trade back in just before 20 and pick up 1 of Filipowski/Holmes/Smith, but I like the idea better of known quantities for OKC, but really like Holmes. For the creator, you could trade back in the lower 20's for someone like Tyler Kolek, or if you have the cap space after other trades, go for a Brogdon like salary dump from Portland for a 1st. I'd also love if they could extend at least Joe for something around the MLE for 4 years flat, it in essence would be a 3yr $16m extension, but for OKC he's only $12.8m going forward. Try to do similar for Wiggins if they have the extra cap space, $8-10m flat for 4 years.
You dont move off of the 2025 picks. There is so much talent in that draft and you could get lucky. Even increase the chance of moving up if you have a lot of picks
@@soggybread749 The guys you are talking about won't be in range for OKCs tradable picks I mentioned (Philly/Miami), which have heavy protections and are for good teams. Nobody is trading out of Flag, Harper, Bailey, and Johnson if they are as good as they appear now for 3 picks between 11-25. The pick you try to hold onto most of those is Utah, but at best it ends up 11-14, and you run the risk of it turning into 2nd's after 2026 if it doesn't convey. If using those assets returns you talent to win now I'd do it gladly. If the Clippers lose PG and have Warriors type season, they could fall into the lottery and OKC could hit the jackpot, or the Rockets could be a play-in type team, so I agree you keep that pick. The others just aren't useful to OKC except as trade chips now.
My thoughts:
- With so much draft capital and flexibility, they can afford and need to be aggressive now as they will still have draft capital and flexibility to make more moves if necessary. Think this is something that should be learned from the Hayward trade.
- That big 4 seems to be the perfect archetype to complete the starting 5. Naz Reid and Lauri are best options but likely unattainable. Portis, Avdija, Carter Jr, Finney-Smith I think are good options. Kuzma and Pat Williams I don't think would buy into the role, same probably with Randle also a bit of a low Basketball IQ player and don't trust him as a shooter, same with Stewart.
- Also need some size on the bench. I think Dieng gets the chance in the preseason to prove he should get minutes, will see how that goes.
- Unfortunately I think Wiggins might be traded. He's a good player but backup guard spots already taken by Wallace and Joe and as I said I think they might look to add size on the bench.
- Giddey most likely moved as could be moved to a bench spot but I imagine him and his agent would prefer him to go somewhere he can start, get more minutes and be on the ball more.
- Giddey could be used to move up in the draft to get Cody Williams although did see that they have potentially given a promise to DeRon Holmes.
Trade idea:
Giddey to Washington for #26 and like 2 future 2nds. Those picks go to Bucks along with Kenrich Williams and maybe some more seconds or a worst of first in a future year for Portis
Isiah Stewart would be a great fit. Toughness.
I’d prioritize Wiggins over Zay Joe as crazy as that sounds
I could see that. Wiggins is a more well rounded player. Joe is a better shooter, but that's all he is. A nice shooter off the bench
And also… Kuzma, Sochan, Randle etc… aren’t a mental, nor cultural fit with this team. Presti looks for “team” fit, not the most talented player available.
My money is on Isaiah Hartenstein