@@paulennini3655 a lot of opera singers do imo when they sing pop. obviously they have vocal chops if they can perform full operas, even if in a mediocre fashion, and the requirements for pop are just not as strenuous and challenging as opera so they sound really like the best stars in the world imo when they sing pop
Just goes to show just because you excel in your area of music (singing, piano, organ or instrumental) doesn’t mean you are meant to teach it. I’m a very good musician in my area. I used to be great, but that was when I could practice every single day and had recitals and competitions to prepare for. I don’t teach my main instrument because I suck at it. I’ve seen “voice teachers” screw up teenager voices. Parents signed their child up because the “teacher” had graduated from the local music school. One mutual student (I teach piano) had the most weird sound come out of her mouth and she was 13. When I asked what her teacher’s music degree was in, she told me ACCOMPANYING. (Today it is called collaborative piano - so stupid). I was required to take voice lessons since organ was my main instrument. Complete waste of time. It didn’t do anything except make me so confused as to the terms and how to “sing in your face mask.” Just because someone took some lessons doesn’t mean they can teach. Around here, we have pianists who took a year of organ and they call themselves organists. Nope. You are a ______ (your primary instrument) and took a few required lessons in a minor area.
@@PacketHunter9426the point still applies. Even in her early years of singing she gave problematic advice about singing. There is a clip out there with Sutherland and Pavarotti, she mentions the dangerous weight of the chest voice. This is complete nonsense
the terminology may be iffy at times, but i think the examples and demonstrations are undeniable. I'm no expert, but as a member of the audience and coming from an opera lover family and therefore having heard it and been very exposed since childhood, i can totally hear the difference overall in old vs new singers, and to me the loss is sad.
@@pedrohasallthepower I think there are some HUGE problems with Opera right now and Opera singing. I tend to disagree with the assessments on this channel as they seem really specific and extreme. Pavarotti, Wunderlich, Domingo, Corelli, Te Kanawa, Freni, Sutherland, Berganza, Horne, Price, Caballe, Milnes, Merrill, Etc. are from what I think is a time when singing was still great and recording technology was good enough to give us a decent listening experience. I would recommend that era in general for listening to operas. We still have some good singing now, (not necessarily perfect) but it is harder to find. Leonard, Radvanovsky, Sierra, come to mind as good singers who are currently singing. In between, there were some good singers like Gheorghiu, Sumi Jo, Bonney, Vaness, Borodina, and I’m sure plenty more.
The fact that great bel canto singers of saying this to students suggests that they have a legit pedagogical purpose. Your overall point about strong chest voice is spot on. But I don't think Nilsson just forgot what singing was, I think we are missing context.
By the time I started to listen to opera, I got that opera is different than other ways to sing cause it caught me for those big loud and dark voices. Sadly, now I can see some of those great singers anymore 😕 😪
I've been going to the opera for 40 years. I can confirm that the decline in voices and the corresponding quality began a long time ago. In the meantime, even at the biggest opera houses, you have to fear that you will hear over-sung sopranos, poor tenors and no mezzos at all in the relevant roles. It seems more important that they meet the requirements of crazy directors, roll around half-naked on stage and can sing well at the same time. Granted - singers look better than they used to, but they sing much worse. And anyone who looks at the so-called superstars - Garanca, Netrebko or Kaufmann - knows what I mean.
Absolutely. My friend made his debut at the Met in that dumbass production of Agrippina in 2020 just before the pandemic and I walked out at intermission, pretended I'd seen the entire thing and got roses for him and went backstage to congratulate him. I myself had pursued a career and I was absolutely assured that evening, after 25 years, that I would have hated having to perform in these ridiculous productions where there are dancers onstage distracting the audience from the music. One conductor told me they do this because they think the audience won't buy just the drama of the storyline and the music, they take the audience intelligence for granted.
yeah, they shouldn’t have built theaters the size of the met if they were planning on diminishing the sizes of voices and replacing them with sexy naked, boobs, and legs.😂
I think it's always the case. There are more operas produced than there are great voices. So casts are filled out by who they can get. But if rather hear bad opera than none at all.
The author is making fun of people who are advocating too much chiaro while advocating a purely scuro approach. Basically, it is like saying I only like singers who sing in one imbalanced way and will now make fun of all singers who sing another way.
Marilyn Horne sang with a dark chest voice. So, why is she teaching someone to sing as brightly as she can? To not get into trouble at the conservatory? I don't like how DiDonato is incorporating nasality into that singer's sound. Singing nasality doesn't enable you to project your voice further. Renée Fleming is right that the aria that woman is singing is a more feminine aria than most of the arias. But, she should be covering her sound as she sings the "ee" voice. I actually watched Nilsson teach that person. She sang that this person must sing from the pharynx but should feel the effect of bringing the sound in front of your face because your sound is projected well. So, she's trying to teach projection through the pharynx; but, using an analogy with the mask so that the singer can feel his sound coming out. Joan Sutherland actually said that you have to use all of the resonators to project the sound. So, Nilsson has the right idea; but, she's not totally explaining her way of singing.
Everything you said was Rt on the money, except for Marilyn Horne. She sang w/an extremely mask placed chest voice. Don’t you hear it in her tone? Like she’s forcing the voice through her nose or as if the sound was sort of trapped in her face? When you hear Marilyn Horne singing in modal voice, vs. Ghena Dimitrova, Shirley Verrett, Reneta Tebaldi, Fedora Barbieri, Elena Obratsova, etc. The sound is a far darker, cavernous sound. Way more released & free also.
@geminikid1617 :: With Marilyn Horne, maybe it depends on the operas and the composers. Horne's performance in Rossini's _Semiramide_ ( recording with JS and Bonyne ). Her lower-range in the duet with Rouleau, was very masculine free, powerful, her voice not trapped in "her face". Maybe, also, Bonyne has always appreciated mezzo-sopranos and help Horne to freely release those lower notes ? Help me out here ... I'm not a professional. Thanks !
I so dislike how Fleming and didonato sound themselves that I don’t even want to see how they teach. It would make me too upset to see them passing on their bad habits😢
I feel like "master classes" are not the answer to becoming a great singer. They often impede the potential of a beautiful, unique voice. Just because a method works for one singer does not mean it can be transferred to another in a positive way. In fact, it can ruin the beautiful uniqueness that someone may already possess. Let's not unify voices; let's embrace the beauty in every individual operatic voice.
I've studied voice with many fine teachers. One of whom could have sung at the met. A student must grow from strength to strength .singing is about feel.it's about feeling effortless .
Que falta de inteligencia y de respeto ponerse a discutir y de denigrar a ciertos cantantes simplemente “ porque no me gustan como cantan” No se puede comparar como canta un tenor ligero con un tenor dramático y viceversa .
A lot of this has merit. You’re also showcasing singers with a lot of natural balance and ease in this type of singing. Demonstrating the “small” sound concept, particularly as you ascend, is a healthy approach to understanding how higher notes function. What I heard in the first few minutes are these singers trying to have the student feel or even hear a sound that is smaller in their head which benefits the maximum acoustical benefits of the sound. Fleming’s demonstration sounded the most “on the body” to me to approach the note as a noise rather than a singing sound.
My 2 cents all that emotion, musicsl expression different colours tessitura, frazing, decibels coming from 2 tiny tiny muscels , the vocal cords. Its quiet a mystery how it works, there isnt a definite recepy as the maker of this video suggests . Talent temperament musicality. Lung capacity, inner ear, physiology. Capacity to concentrate and so on and so on Many reasons also why todays singers sound tired overworked then only a bad technique. Just imagine how much time it took to travel up to 1940. And how much singers sing these days Monday new york wednesday paris and so on A hell of a lot of pressure on 2 tiny muscles.
That's a good point, but how do you explain that the issues are already there even when they're just yet students. To me it seems that it has to do with a general shift in cultural and musical taste. Vocalization in general has degraded with the coming of pop music in the 20th century. Gradually even people's speaking voices deteriorated. Even young people speak with so much fry in their voice, breathiness is a thing.. Listen to recording of interviews with the likes of Birgit Nilsson and Joan Sutherland and many others from that time and earlier - how they speak, how CLEARLY. Their speaking voices had no breathiness, but a lot of vocal strength and purity and musicality. Often children have that naturally, but then it's spoiled by culture and the weird trends in art in general - ugliness over beauty. I feel like in the past part of a woman's beauty was the beauty of her speaking voice and there actually was some value in that due to it being.. well.. just beautiful. Same for a man - a beautiful deep clear and pure speaking voice could really add to a man's attractiveness . Nowadays these attributes are almost seen as detractors! It's not 'in' to vocalize beautifully. You'd be seen as weird talking like that. Listen to today's opera singers in interviews. Ick. They sound like smokers even though they're not. Go figure. In the best case they're straining to talk like that. Whether you're speaking or singing it's not the natural thing anymore, and so it has to be taught, which is somewhat hopeless, because it puts the student way back. They have less physical muscle memory and also mental intuitive comprehension of it to build on, which should have come simply from feeling your great voice and USING it already every day simply from the pleasure and acceptance of producing beautiful sounds, not SEEDY ones.
Already in the seventeeth pupils like Jard van Nes on the KC the Hague let you know, Deutekom could not sing, so we had a fight over it and now it's the end of Opera, there are no real singers anymore, while everywhere peolple are in charge who think Florez or Fleming know it best! Thanks for posting!
It is a misconception that the educators in this video are advocating nasality. They try to get the "student" to use all sound chambers and equalize the voice and at the same time achieve tessiatura with high formants and a timbre that reaches beyond the edge of the stage. This is not achieved by trying to darken the voice and make unnatural widening of the pharynx. The exercises with the aim of getting the student to find sinuses behind the nose and in the forehead can sometimes contain what at the moment is judged nasally. But when you then start with equalization, this is removed while maintaining the head sound.
Sorry, but this doesn't seem to match what Florez said in the end of this video. He clearly said that if the audience doesn't hear you "it's their problem". It seems to me he doesn't actually wants the student to fill up the theater with her voice. Also, I don't know whether you've listened to Florez or not, but his singing sounds really nasal to me. Besides, I can confirm that all of the opera singers I have listened live in the last 15 years at least without amplification are barely audible.
Tone and resonance are important elements when singing opera. Work on developing a clear, ringing tone and a resonant sound that fills the room. It is important to use the resonance spaces the body has and to equalize the voice so that the registers can flow into each other. This can be achieved through exercises such as humming, singing nasals to find the main timbre and then equalizing the voice to give a beautiful and smooth transition between different registers in agreement. Then singing with an open mouth and relaxed throat is a must. On the other hand, I defend against a forced widening of the entire pharynx because it easily creates tension, can cause a lump and a guttural sound.
@@vandersvanders They don’t generally. It is not possible to generalize and lump all younger up-and-coming singers under one roof. But there is, as I see it, a phalanx where acting takes a bigger place in education than singing technique. And then I wonder if the trainers haven't missed that we go to opera and vocal concerts first and foremost for the vocal experience? Otherwise, there are generally better actors in dramatic theaters than on the opera stage. I understand what you mean and believe that there would be room for analysis and reflection in some institutions that train in artistic singing technique.
Nilsson's entire technique was based on this frontal placement so I find her consistent in her teaching. Maybe the creator of this video likes her too much to admit it. As for Callas, she was an exciting singer, but her vocal problems came too soon to make her a good example of technique.
That’s what Nilsson liked to think of her technique. What her technique really was, is another thing. Singers are most of the time absolutely clueless about what they do and how they sound that’s why they used to trust so much in conductors and pianists. Now, when conductors and pianists are even more clueless than them, we are really screwed. Callas was a really good example for good singing at the beggining. Later he acknowledge she got bad habits and was trying to overcome them. The las recordings in her Paris apartment shows the voicegoing back to what it was when she was younger sort of
Callas Vocal problem has nothing to do with her technique, but exssejve amount of performing especially insane repetoire. No matter how good your technique is, *you are still a human* . Your muscle can be tired up and technique wont save that. Take a look at someone like Mariah Carey from pop industry. Her resonance quality is not joke yet she suffered sonmucj because of exscesive tour
@Zeth-x8q that's just Callas fan fiction. There have been other singers who've sung the same repertoire and didn't expire. If you listen carefully to her early recordings, you can hear the flaws that caused the early deterioration. This takes nothing away from her artistry, but technically, it shows that a solid technique is crucial.
@Zeth-x8q her scale was too uneven. You can hear a distinct gear shift when she goes from her low notes to the middle range. Starting from the low notes, they sound throaty (yet exciting), not fully grounded as in the case of Flagstad or Ponselle, for example. Then, the middle was always opaque, it had a hole, the vowels sounded veiled and whenever she added pressure to increase the volume, the vibrato would widen, already in recordings from 1949. The top had a brilliant core early on, but already in 1953/4, it started getting thinner and insecure with a pronounced wobble. It didn't help that she wanted to sing everything, when in fact she was a coloratura. Hence, the problems became more pronounced when she sang verismo and late Verdi, Wagner roles. This repertoire has rich orchestral writing against the voice, so it's easy to fall in the trap of pushing. In bel canto she didn't feel tempted to push as much, and her florid singing training with de Hidalgo was solid, so the runs, trills and roulades were all exceptional. Her problems were all mentioned in early reviews, before she became a star immune to criticism. If you hear her late recitals, the problems are still there, just more obvious. Singers with great techniques lose some notes as they get older but are still able to sing a steady line in the middle, Callas lost that ability. We also have no old-school singers who wobbled. Some authors like Scott have been quite honest about these, without overlooking her fascinating musicianship, exciting voice, professionalism and dedication to the art.
El peor enseñando es Florez, y encima faltándole el respeto a Rossini…madre mía! La Simionato le da tres vueltas…la ópera con buen vibrato, core, acento y expresividad., nada de mosquitos. Muchas gracias ❤❤❤
i generally agree with you about current opera singers lacking chest resonation, but i think you dont know much about the process of LEARNING how to sing. these nasal, pitchy sounds are the BASIS of singing. u first need to open up your nasal resonators to even be able to emit the sound, especially high notes. its the first step. only then u need to learn how to drag chest resonation along with it. always when i warm up i start with pitchy, nasal noises, to open up my nasal cavity resonators. doesnt mean the end result will be the same sound..
You have to understand all this terminology means nothing all that matters to an audience is the results that they hear and that is where the problem lies. You can’t debate somebody into thinking you sound good if you don’t.
@@comment6864 just like you cant debate STUDYING singing without knowing anything about education process. these students here are still learning. u cant expect perfect results. its like mocking a toddler for not knowing quantum physics. and also, dont mock warming up exercises when u dont know their purpose. this channel indeed points out an important issue in current opera singing that is lack of chest resonation in most singers, because teachers dont give a ... about it, they just want u to hit the notes flawlessly and that's it, but mocking warming up exercises is just... no. stop.
I was told i was a leggero tenor, like JDF, thankfully I moved from town; new singers and new teachers, it was a shock for me when I realized I wasn't singing with my natural voice. Long story short: im a baritone. JDF sounded nice in those low notes, wishing him well
@leyvarojasr usually the misdiagnoses goes the other way. Some teacher think any male singer that doesn't have easy high notes is a baritone . This is.determaned at the first lesson. Unethical and lazy
Good lord! No wonder so many promising singers are ruined before they even get started. Such bad advice....and from singers who didn't do what they are advising here. It's sad. truly sad
those conductors that don't know their job are sometimes ruining even a good singers, even the great Monsterrat Calballe had similar experience, but she just asked the conductor : do you think this sounds good? and he replied it is fantastic!!! she said ok, went to the dressing room to pick up her things and went back to Barcelona disappointed in such an ignorance
We have got to stop saying "singing operatically" was just a person specific thing. If people just tried the concepts, and practiced (I have been working on it for years), you can learn a different way of singing without sacfricing anything. From experience, i can tell you it can be learned to sing like that. There are no teachers who teach the classic way, and its been diluted with "placement" singing. Don't let the old art die. Its so important.
When talking about stars, and singers who teach... There are singers who have certain things naturally and do not even know that they are doing it. And they only teach people the thing that they learnt (what was missing from them) and think everyone should sound and learn that missing thing. Without realising that they also need the very thing that that singer acquired naturally
Most of the great teachers could not themselves sing. They were scholars of every aspect of voice production and they loved teaching. So many singers view teaching as what they do in retirement or when they don't make it. They either have faulty techniques or an inability to communicate those things that come naturally to them. Even great singer don't know exactly how it's done. And occasionally jealousy and resentnents cause the teacher to unconsciouly sabotage the student.
The odd comment, taken out of context, is NOT a basis to judge anyone or anything. "Opera should sound dark" is a perfectly ridiculous comment - when taken in isolation and out of context; Well, honestly, I can't really think of any situation where a generalization that broad isn't stoopid.
The tenor voice is can be precarious. You have to allow a much more energized breath connection that is difficult to balance in sweeter belcanto rep. Hadley does a beautiful job of finding the chiaroscuro in his sound. Polenzani has that in droves live, but here you hear much more forward focused projection to help with the passaggio. But there’s a lot of squillo! I haven’t heard Brownlee or javier live.
Doing and teaching are totally different disciplines. Many great singers from the past weren't taught by singers. Great talent cannot be passed to others because it is exclusive to that person. Great teachers don't create the talent, they nurture and develop it. Lots of opera singers like to do master classes to remain in the public eye and, of course, for recompense. I'll go off script and give an example. Some years ago my daughter was a talented violinist. I took her to the Wigmore Hall to see Joshua Bell in concert. After the performance, she managed to get back stage and speak with the virtuoso. She asked him how he did a particular shift. He replied that he didn't know, he just did it.
Start by doing a tenth of the career of these singers you criticize and you will be able to speak. The fact of wanting to impose only one way of doing things on all singers shows that you have very little teaching experience. The vibrational sensations are different depending on where you are in the vocal range of the singer. Imposing an affondo on a singer who swells his voice is madness. Likewise, wanting to forcibly place a voice that is tight in the mask is also madness. Teachers who are gurus and claim to have the absolute truth should be banned from teaching. There are as many vocal particularities as there are students. It is up to the teacher to use all his knowledge and to demonstrate the greatest humility. For my part, I have been singing for 45 years and teaching for 30. The more I advance, the more I doubt.
GLV died in 1979. If you are a credible singer and a teacher, why don't you use your real name? Incredibly enough, GLV stood firm for his technique. See some of his videos critiquing a few singers who came in the 1970s.
The end result that the audience hears is really all that matters. It doesn't help that audiences have become not very discerning and overly conditioned by acceptance of pop music
Definitely no… I think Kraus sounds good if we compare him to the likes of Florez ou Villazon… but as soon as we here Schipa, Valetti or Pavarotti in his brilliant begging days, we can’t really put him amongst the best…
@@drefesou8912Kraus' nasality got visibly worse as he aged too. Here he sounds pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. But as he got later in his career he got worse and worse. I've heard some totally nasal Cs out of his mouth that had me absolutely cringing! Bad enough to deal with that. But the other problem is dealing with people who deny it completely, who tell me that Kraus has NEVER gone nasal, that I don't know what I'm talking about.
@@mickey1849yeah some singer lose projection becuase they are not closing the nose valve behind the nostrils because they get lazy and thats why the sound goes into their nose
@@martinrogan6641 It may be laziness with some. But laziness can be corrected. Most of the problems are people like Kraus, I think. His voice somewhere has an "anatomical flaw." He covers for it through the years. If he gains enough fans to overlook this, and the flaw is not pronounced, then maybe he makes a living as a singer. But for singers not employing/unable to employ proper singing technique, the usual direction the flaw takes over the years is to become worse, more pronounced, and less easy to control. There are many and various reasons for this. But the simplest explanation I suppose, is that the muscles become fatigued over the years. It's not so easy doing it as when one was young. Making allowances for the flaw becomes more and more difficult and stressful, as the voice is not always keen on cooperating.
As a professional working opera singer I just have one question? Is the creator of this channel, an opera singer, a working professional opera singer as opposed to someone who watches masterclasses on TH-cam and obviously doesn’t have a clue about technique? To criticise the teaching of these absolute greats - whose careers speak for themselves - is absolutely astounding. To pick out tiny snippets of a lesson/masterclass and hold it up as poor teaching, is astonishing. These comments make complete sense if one understands everything that makes up vocal technique. An incredibly complex technique to learn and master. Nasal - is trying to get the singer to sing in the ‘mask’ as opposed to an unpleasant ‘covered’ sound in the back. It’s only to learn placement, you are definitely not meant to have any nasal sound/tone when singing. But you start there. If you don’t understand this basic point, please take this down. You’re making yourself the 🤣 - not the singer/s.
Uh.. that's a scary comment, because the real whole point is the end result and that's all that matters. To me the point in the video makes total sense in light of what i hear lately coming from the opera world, as opposed to what it was like before, when i was growing up in a family that was heavily into opera and basically i heard them all.. couldn't help it. The changes in the end result is undeniable. Almost all these current singers have weird characteristics in their singing that makes them just unpleasant and disappointing. That's not how you're supposed to walk away after experiencing supposed masters of the art. It's quite disconcerting. This video is spot on because the proof is in the pudding. I won't even mention when Flores tells someone to sing breathy. mama mia.. 😳😲😱 actually explains a lot about what the problem is
I studied with two true masters of vocal pedagogy. One of which has close ties to Nielson and the Swedish/Italian method. Often, exercises and masterclasses, they have singers exaggerate to get the desired result-example: a singer with too much darkness or have a swallowed sound. The professor would, in the short time try to brighten the sound to balance it. These snippets do not tell the full story. Now, there are places I find that are ridiculous-Florez (in every way) introducing breathiness. There are performers that are not good teachers. I wouldn’t knock Horne or Nilsson, they had technique to burn.
Comme c'est étrange d'isoler 10 secondes d'une consigne, sans savoir ce qui précède ni ce qui suit, sans savoir ce que proposait initialement l'étudiant, sans rien expliquer... et c'est encore plus étrange de se moquer de chanteur.euse.s qui ont fait des carrières longues et brillantes, de prendre une note mal émise pour critiquer l'ensemble d'une pensée musicale. C'est une attitude anti pédagogique, non?
Uh.. didn't Flores tell the student to sing with more breathiness? Absolutely astounding. That's a complete degradation of undersanding what opera is. I think pop singing is the real culprit
On TH-cam I find so many singers' comments to be vicious. I might be more interested in what you were saying if you removed the stupid emojis and derisive tone (and fixed your English).
Fleming, Didonato and Nilsson, what the hell are they even saying??? They make absolutely no sense. Florez is also bullshit. Poor singers... how could they be anything but confused?
It’s not questioning brilliant careers. It’s questioning the technique and teaching of many of these singers, some of whom have no clue how they do what they do. Did you actually listen to the clips of the older singers, who knew what they were doing with open voices?
you don't have to sing dark, ok in this case yes, but generally a lot of compositions would sound poorly is sang only in dark mode :) :) :) But nasal hahahaha duck singing
I can't say I enjoyed Jerry Hadley. American operatic singing is the absolute worst, in general. Except for Barbara Bonney, who worked in another tradition.
I absolutely disagree about Blake. He's probably the best Rossini tenor ever existed. By the way, Ah mes amis is not is best performance, but he remains unmatched in his repertoire. I thought this was a serious channel...
What a dreadful video to make fool of distinguished singers! I’ve had some lessons for La Nilsson in a masterclass and she did really meet us all in the masterclass with various instructions depending in which part of our development we were. The problem today is all the pushing to try to sound more rich in the voice than you are able to. The man that you glorify in this video as a good example - his instructions voile ruin a voice for ever. My wife who studied for the Wagnerian tenor Helge Brillioth can verify the process to go from the small to the big sound! If you can’t sing simple, light tones you probably have a damage on your vocal cords - a checking point in your voice-health. With a great experience in jurywork for operachorus you hear this broken/ruined voices in young ages depending on the singers faulse believe in the way you suggest to work.
What a load of mean spirited rubbish. Everyone's voice is different. You should never try and copy the sound of someone else. All that matters in the end is if the audience likes it.
I dont see much bad teaching here, but whoever made this likes heavy, open, chesty lowered larynx and loud . Above all, loud , it seems. Del Monaco is always a thrill, until the unrelenting loudness and lack of variety grow tiresome. But he did include Schipa, so my theory is not completely true.
This channel is knowingly misrepresenting exercices (both correct and debatable) as on stage practice. It's dishonest and actually feels mean spirited...
Sorry but if youve got no idea about technique you shouldnt insult the professional singers just because you dont like their sound. Especially not with such a bad editing
Whoever made this sounds like one of those old snobs. But despite that, I appreciate it because it's like a window to the old times. It shows me the nuances of different techniques and how human bias plays a part in finding the "correct" sound
No. It’s you who has no idea. If you think Flores’s teachings for example is correct, then you’re the 1 who needs to go back to studying. B/c that goes completely against the way OPERA is supposed to be sung.
@@isntitrich000 How is that author bias? Opera is not subjective because it has it owns standard. A voice should be dark, full, and released. And it's useful because Opera don't use mic amplification. U need those three factors for being able to cut through thick instrument *without sounding like u r screaming or nosiy buzz* If u have neither of it, then u r FAILED as an opera singers. Great voice is not subjective.
Nilson is nobody, she is just a mezzo, what they know about singing? Like mezzo callas. Guelfi? Teaching a screams to be like a bass caruso. "Great" hadley? 5:58 bari forced a top. 7:16 that yells are awful by mezzo. Channels are dont know nothing on timbres, more and more nonsense
Yet your comment is about individual singers. When people make comments like this, I always wonder what YOU sound like since you seem to Be the arbiter.
Oh what an ignorant comment! Who do you really think you are? Birgit Nilsson became court singer in 1954 and received the corresponding title, Kammersängerin, in Austria in 1968 and then also in Bavaria in 1970. She became a member of the Royal Academy of Music in 1960 and was named professor in 1998. And she was in high demand in all the world's opera houses.
You sound like when someone has been drinking and one hears an undisguised burp and a bottle falling over, indicating that nothing good is gonna come from the situation.
The author is making fun of people who are advocating too much chiaro while advocating a purely scuro approach. Basically, it is like saying I only like singers who sing in one imbalanced way and will now make fun of all singers who sing another way.
@@comment6864 In Questa Reggia is a good example, where in the high notes everyone today sound like their tongue is wobbling around in the mouth, they are scooping to the notes and sound like they are pushing with everything they have.
I get the sense that Florez wished he were a pop singer.
Or a broadway singer
Exactly! Your nailed it. JC too. I had the same feeling. It’s a mentality thing.
I wonder if Florez can sing with Il Divo too. Both are my favorites.
I wish Florez was a pop singer, too. I've heard him sing popular songs and he sounds better than he does in opera.
@@paulennini3655 a lot of opera singers do imo when they sing pop. obviously they have vocal chops if they can perform full operas, even if in a mediocre fashion, and the requirements for pop are just not as strenuous and challenging as opera so they sound really like the best stars in the world imo when they sing pop
Just goes to show just because you excel in your area of music (singing, piano, organ or instrumental) doesn’t mean you are meant to teach it. I’m a very good musician in my area. I used to be great, but that was when I could practice every single day and had recitals and competitions to prepare for. I don’t teach my main instrument because I suck at it. I’ve seen “voice teachers” screw up teenager voices. Parents signed their child up because the “teacher” had graduated from the local music school. One mutual student (I teach piano) had the most weird sound come out of her mouth and she was 13. When I asked what her teacher’s music degree was in, she told me ACCOMPANYING. (Today it is called collaborative piano - so stupid). I was required to take voice lessons since organ was my main instrument. Complete waste of time. It didn’t do anything except make me so confused as to the terms and how to “sing in your face mask.” Just because someone took some lessons doesn’t mean they can teach. Around here, we have pianists who took a year of organ and they call themselves organists. Nope. You are a ______ (your primary instrument) and took a few required lessons in a minor area.
I think there’s a difference between a primary/high school singing teacher and ummm….Marilyn Horne. Just saying.
@@PacketHunter9426the point still applies. Even in her early years of singing she gave problematic advice about singing. There is a clip out there with Sutherland and Pavarotti, she mentions the dangerous weight of the chest voice. This is complete nonsense
@@pedrohasallthepower That is misquoted, she is talking about the navigation of the passaggio.
Actually, opera singing should NOT sound dark (ONLY). It is the balance between the dark and the bright. Not only dark and not only bright
I saw Florez in Lucia at La Scala last year, I say "saw" because I barely heard him. Watching him demonstrating here makes me realise why!
😂😂😂😂 LOL
yup, broadway actor..
I think this channel would be more aptly named “This is what I think opera used to be.”
That's a fair point. What types of opera do you listen to and also recommend. With reasonably good singing
the terminology may be iffy at times, but i think the examples and demonstrations are undeniable. I'm no expert, but as a member of the audience and coming from an opera lover family and therefore having heard it and been very exposed since childhood, i can totally hear the difference overall in old vs new singers, and to me the loss is sad.
@@pedrohasallthepower I think there are some HUGE problems with Opera right now and Opera singing. I tend to disagree with the assessments on this channel as they seem really specific and extreme.
Pavarotti, Wunderlich, Domingo, Corelli, Te Kanawa, Freni, Sutherland, Berganza, Horne, Price, Caballe, Milnes, Merrill, Etc. are from what I think is a time when singing was still great and recording technology was good enough to give us a decent listening experience. I would recommend that era in general for listening to operas. We still have some good singing now, (not necessarily perfect) but it is harder to find. Leonard, Radvanovsky, Sierra, come to mind as good singers who are currently singing. In between, there were some good singers like Gheorghiu, Sumi Jo, Bonney, Vaness, Borodina, and I’m sure plenty more.
The fact that great bel canto singers of saying this to students suggests that they have a legit pedagogical purpose. Your overall point about strong chest voice is spot on. But I don't think Nilsson just forgot what singing was, I think we are missing context.
That's likely. We need the whole clip of the masterclass and an interpreter who also sings
By the time I started to listen to opera, I got that opera is different than other ways to sing cause it caught me for those big loud and dark voices. Sadly, now I can see some of those great singers anymore 😕 😪
I've been going to the opera for 40 years. I can confirm that the decline in voices and the corresponding quality began a long time ago. In the meantime, even at the biggest opera houses, you have to fear that you will hear over-sung sopranos, poor tenors and no mezzos at all in the relevant roles. It seems more important that they meet the requirements of crazy directors, roll around half-naked on stage and can sing well at the same time. Granted - singers look better than they used to, but they sing much worse. And anyone who looks at the so-called superstars - Garanca, Netrebko or Kaufmann - knows what I mean.
Absolutely. My friend made his debut at the Met in that dumbass production of Agrippina in 2020 just before the pandemic and I walked out at intermission, pretended I'd seen the entire thing and got roses for him and went backstage to congratulate him. I myself had pursued a career and I was absolutely assured that evening, after 25 years, that I would have hated having to perform in these ridiculous productions where there are dancers onstage distracting the audience from the music. One conductor told me they do this because they think the audience won't buy just the drama of the storyline and the music, they take the audience intelligence for granted.
yeah, they shouldn’t have built theaters the size of the met if they were planning on diminishing the sizes of voices and replacing them with sexy naked, boobs, and legs.😂
I think it's always the case. There are more operas produced than there are great voices. So casts are filled out by who they can get. But if rather hear bad opera than none at all.
@@Altonahh10 It's really a sad state of things 😐
@@Altonahh10 Netrebko looked passable when her weight was off. But that was a long time ago now.
The author is making fun of people who are advocating too much chiaro while advocating a purely scuro approach.
Basically, it is like saying I only like singers who sing in one imbalanced way and will now make fun of all singers who sing another way.
Marilyn Horne sang with a dark chest voice. So, why is she teaching someone to sing as brightly as she can? To not get into trouble at the conservatory?
I don't like how DiDonato is incorporating nasality into that singer's sound. Singing nasality doesn't enable you to project your voice further.
Renée Fleming is right that the aria that woman is singing is a more feminine aria than most of the arias. But, she should be covering her sound as she sings the "ee" voice.
I actually watched Nilsson teach that person. She sang that this person must sing from the pharynx but should feel the effect of bringing the sound in front of your face because your sound is projected well. So, she's trying to teach projection through the pharynx; but, using an analogy with the mask so that the singer can feel his sound coming out. Joan Sutherland actually said that you have to use all of the resonators to project the sound. So, Nilsson has the right idea; but, she's not totally explaining her way of singing.
What is projection in your opinion?
Everything you said was Rt on the money, except for Marilyn Horne. She sang w/an extremely mask placed chest voice. Don’t you hear it in her tone? Like she’s forcing the voice through her nose or as if the sound was sort of trapped in her face? When you hear Marilyn Horne singing in modal voice, vs. Ghena Dimitrova, Shirley Verrett, Reneta Tebaldi, Fedora Barbieri, Elena Obratsova, etc. The sound is a far darker, cavernous sound. Way more released & free also.
Nilsson was great. I attended a master class in 1985. She was a good psychologist too, adapting her approach to the student
@geminikid1617 ::
With Marilyn Horne, maybe it depends on the operas and the composers. Horne's performance in Rossini's _Semiramide_ ( recording with JS and Bonyne ). Her lower-range in the duet with Rouleau, was very masculine free, powerful, her voice not trapped in "her face".
Maybe, also, Bonyne has always appreciated mezzo-sopranos and help Horne to freely release those lower notes ?
Help me out here ... I'm not a professional.
Thanks !
I so dislike how Fleming and didonato sound themselves that I don’t even want to see how they teach. It would make me too upset to see them passing on their bad habits😢
We don’t care the orchestra??? The. composer did.
Yeah fr though ! 😂
I feel like "master classes" are not the answer to becoming a great singer. They often impede the potential of a beautiful, unique voice. Just because a method works for one singer does not mean it can be transferred to another in a positive way. In fact, it can ruin the beautiful uniqueness that someone may already possess. Let's not unify voices; let's embrace the beauty in every individual operatic voice.
I've studied voice with many fine teachers. One of whom could have sung at the met. A student must grow from strength to strength .singing is about feel.it's about feeling effortless .
Que falta de inteligencia y de respeto ponerse a discutir y de denigrar a ciertos cantantes simplemente “ porque no me gustan como cantan” No se puede comparar como canta un tenor ligero con un tenor dramático y viceversa .
A lot of this has merit. You’re also showcasing singers with a lot of natural balance and ease in this type of singing. Demonstrating the “small” sound concept, particularly as you ascend, is a healthy approach to understanding how higher notes function. What I heard in the first few minutes are these singers trying to have the student feel or even hear a sound that is smaller in their head which benefits the maximum acoustical benefits of the sound. Fleming’s demonstration sounded the most “on the body” to me to approach the note as a noise rather than a singing sound.
but the problem is that some of these teaching singers are of mediocre quality themselves at best. They can't even demonstrate the right way to do it.
Opera is universal it should sound “bright” or “dark” when it needs to be 🤷♀️
My 2 cents all that emotion, musicsl expression different colours tessitura, frazing, decibels coming from 2 tiny tiny muscels , the vocal cords.
Its quiet a mystery how it works, there isnt a definite recepy as the maker of this video suggests .
Talent temperament musicality. Lung capacity, inner ear, physiology. Capacity to concentrate and so on and so on
Many reasons also why todays singers sound tired overworked then only a bad technique.
Just imagine how much time it took to travel up to 1940.
And how much singers sing these days
Monday new york wednesday paris and so on
A hell of a lot of pressure on 2 tiny muscles.
That's a good point, but how do you explain that the issues are already there even when they're just yet students. To me it seems that it has to do with a general shift in cultural and musical taste. Vocalization in general has degraded with the coming of pop music in the 20th century. Gradually even people's speaking voices deteriorated. Even young people speak with so much fry in their voice, breathiness is a thing.. Listen to recording of interviews with the likes of Birgit Nilsson and Joan Sutherland and many others from that time and earlier - how they speak, how CLEARLY. Their speaking voices had no breathiness, but a lot of vocal strength and purity and musicality. Often children have that naturally, but then it's spoiled by culture and the weird trends in art in general - ugliness over beauty. I feel like in the past part of a woman's beauty was the beauty of her speaking voice and there actually was some value in that due to it being.. well.. just beautiful. Same for a man - a beautiful deep clear and pure speaking voice could really add to a man's attractiveness . Nowadays these attributes are almost seen as detractors! It's not 'in' to vocalize beautifully. You'd be seen as weird talking like that. Listen to today's opera singers in interviews. Ick. They sound like smokers even though they're not. Go figure. In the best case they're straining to talk like that. Whether you're speaking or singing it's not the natural thing anymore, and so it has to be taught, which is somewhat hopeless, because it puts the student way back. They have less physical muscle memory and also mental intuitive comprehension of it to build on, which should have come simply from feeling your great voice and USING it already every day simply from the pleasure and acceptance of producing beautiful sounds, not SEEDY ones.
Already in the seventeeth pupils like Jard van Nes on the KC the Hague let you know, Deutekom could not sing, so we had a fight over it and now it's the end of Opera, there are no real singers anymore, while everywhere peolple are in charge who think Florez or Fleming know it best!
Thanks for posting!
It is a misconception that the educators in this video are advocating nasality. They try to get the "student" to use all sound chambers and equalize the voice and at the same time achieve tessiatura with high formants and a timbre that reaches beyond the edge of the stage. This is not achieved by trying to darken the voice and make unnatural widening of the pharynx. The exercises with the aim of getting the student to find sinuses behind the nose and in the forehead can sometimes contain what at the moment is judged nasally. But when you then start with equalization, this is removed while maintaining the head sound.
Sorry, but this doesn't seem to match what Florez said in the end of this video. He clearly said that if the audience doesn't hear you "it's their problem". It seems to me he doesn't actually wants the student to fill up the theater with her voice. Also, I don't know whether you've listened to Florez or not, but his singing sounds really nasal to me. Besides, I can confirm that all of the opera singers I have listened live in the last 15 years at least without amplification are barely audible.
Tone and resonance are important elements when singing opera. Work on developing a clear, ringing tone and a resonant sound that fills the room. It is important to use the resonance spaces the body has and to equalize the voice so that the registers can flow into each other. This can be achieved through exercises such as humming, singing nasals to find the main timbre and then equalizing the voice to give a beautiful and smooth transition between different registers in agreement. Then singing with an open mouth and relaxed throat is a must. On the other hand, I defend against a forced widening of the entire pharynx because it easily creates tension, can cause a lump and a guttural sound.
@@tommyekman7922 why do modern opera singers have small voices, in your opinion?
@@vandersvanders They don’t generally. It is not possible to generalize and lump all younger up-and-coming singers under one roof. But there is, as I see it, a phalanx where acting takes a bigger place in education than singing technique. And then I wonder if the trainers haven't missed that we go to opera and vocal concerts first and foremost for the vocal experience? Otherwise, there are generally better actors in dramatic theaters than on the opera stage. I understand what you mean and believe that there would be room for analysis and reflection in some institutions that train in artistic singing technique.
All that gibberish means aboslutely nothing. For starters, sinuses are full of mucus. The sound doesn’t resonate there.
Guelfi 😍, Hadley 😍 & Nilsson 😍
Nilsson's entire technique was based on this frontal placement so I find her consistent in her teaching. Maybe the creator of this video likes her too much to admit it. As for Callas, she was an exciting singer, but her vocal problems came too soon to make her a good example of technique.
That’s what Nilsson liked to think of her technique. What her technique really was, is another thing. Singers are most of the time absolutely clueless about what they do and how they sound that’s why they used to trust so much in conductors and pianists. Now, when conductors and pianists are even more clueless than them, we are really screwed. Callas was a really good example for good singing at the beggining. Later he acknowledge she got bad habits and was trying to overcome them. The las recordings in her Paris apartment shows the voicegoing back to what it was when she was younger sort of
Callas Vocal problem has nothing to do with her technique, but exssejve amount of performing especially insane repetoire.
No matter how good your technique is, *you are still a human* . Your muscle can be tired up and technique wont save that.
Take a look at someone like Mariah Carey from pop industry. Her resonance quality is not joke yet she suffered sonmucj because of exscesive tour
@Zeth-x8q that's just Callas fan fiction. There have been other singers who've sung the same repertoire and didn't expire. If you listen carefully to her early recordings, you can hear the flaws that caused the early deterioration. This takes nothing away from her artistry, but technically, it shows that a solid technique is crucial.
@@Orfeus80 can u point out what is her weakness and her flaws? Maybe I can' learn something from that
@Zeth-x8q her scale was too uneven. You can hear a distinct gear shift when she goes from her low notes to the middle range. Starting from the low notes, they sound throaty (yet exciting), not fully grounded as in the case of Flagstad or Ponselle, for example. Then, the middle was always opaque, it had a hole, the vowels sounded veiled and whenever she added pressure to increase the volume, the vibrato would widen, already in recordings from 1949. The top had a brilliant core early on, but already in 1953/4, it started getting thinner and insecure with a pronounced wobble. It didn't help that she wanted to sing everything, when in fact she was a coloratura. Hence, the problems became more pronounced when she sang verismo and late Verdi, Wagner roles. This repertoire has rich orchestral writing against the voice, so it's easy to fall in the trap of pushing. In bel canto she didn't feel tempted to push as much, and her florid singing training with de Hidalgo was solid, so the runs, trills and roulades were all exceptional. Her problems were all mentioned in early reviews, before she became a star immune to criticism. If you hear her late recitals, the problems are still there, just more obvious. Singers with great techniques lose some notes as they get older but are still able to sing a steady line in the middle, Callas lost that ability. We also have no old-school singers who wobbled. Some authors like Scott have been quite honest about these, without overlooking her fascinating musicianship, exciting voice, professionalism and dedication to the art.
El peor enseñando es Florez, y encima faltándole el respeto a Rossini…madre mía! La Simionato le da tres vueltas…la ópera con buen vibrato, core, acento y expresividad., nada de mosquitos. Muchas gracias ❤❤❤
to me the telltale sign that he doesn't know what he's talking about is when says to sing more breathy 😳😱😥 That's when you know opera is in trouble
@@comment6864cierto. Saludos cordiales ❤❤❤
i generally agree with you about current opera singers lacking chest resonation, but i think you dont know much about the process of LEARNING how to sing. these nasal, pitchy sounds are the BASIS of singing. u first need to open up your nasal resonators to even be able to emit the sound, especially high notes. its the first step. only then u need to learn how to drag chest resonation along with it.
always when i warm up i start with pitchy, nasal noises, to open up my nasal cavity resonators. doesnt mean the end result will be the same sound..
Thank you.
Great!
You have to understand all this terminology means nothing all that matters to an audience is the results that they hear and that is where the problem lies. You can’t debate somebody into thinking you sound good if you don’t.
@@comment6864 just like you cant debate STUDYING singing without knowing anything about education process. these students here are still learning. u cant expect perfect results. its like mocking a toddler for not knowing quantum physics. and also, dont mock warming up exercises when u dont know their purpose.
this channel indeed points out an important issue in current opera singing that is lack of chest resonation in most singers, because teachers dont give a ... about it, they just want u to hit the notes flawlessly and that's it, but mocking warming up exercises is just... no. stop.
and no good sound - only nasal mosquito
I was told i was a leggero tenor, like JDF, thankfully I moved from town; new singers and new teachers, it was a shock for me when I realized I wasn't singing with my natural voice. Long story short: im a baritone. JDF sounded nice in those low notes, wishing him well
@leyvarojasr usually the misdiagnoses goes the other way. Some teacher think any male singer that doesn't have easy high notes is a baritone . This is.determaned at the first lesson. Unethical and lazy
@@jefolson6989 Actually you should be able to tell from a person's speaking voice, so it seems like a case of the listener missing the obvious
@@comment6864 Speaking voice can be deceiving. Some were happy to classify me as a baritone for speaking around C3 (low C for tenor).
@@comment6864 i spoke very high and falcettish before studying singing, people aren't always speaking with their actual voice
One question: Is Luciana Serra a good singer??! I love her coloratura.
''like pop music a little bit''???? what?????????
Good lord! No wonder so many promising singers are ruined before they even get started. Such bad advice....and from singers who didn't do what they are advising here. It's sad. truly sad
those conductors that don't know their job are sometimes ruining even a good singers, even the great Monsterrat Calballe had similar experience, but she just asked the conductor : do you think this sounds good? and he replied it is fantastic!!! she said ok, went to the dressing room to pick up her things and went back to Barcelona disappointed in such an ignorance
@@aleksandartanackov716 Wow that's quite a story.. good for her!
We have got to stop saying "singing operatically" was just a person specific thing. If people just tried the concepts, and practiced (I have been working on it for years), you can learn a different way of singing without sacfricing anything. From experience, i can tell you it can be learned to sing like that. There are no teachers who teach the classic way, and its been diluted with "placement" singing. Don't let the old art die. Its so important.
Crazy take on Larry Brownlee...one of the greatest of our time
Hmm i disagree, and totally get what was meant
When talking about stars, and singers who teach... There are singers who have certain things naturally and do not even know that they are doing it. And they only teach people the thing that they learnt (what was missing from them) and think everyone should sound and learn that missing thing. Without realising that they also need the very thing that that singer acquired naturally
Or what they feel when they do a skill. In many ways, that's useless
Or they're just not good singers 😂
@@comment6864 That can't be the case. If they have had that long a career, they can't be bad singers. A bad singer does not last
Most of the great teachers could not themselves sing. They were scholars of every aspect of voice production and they loved teaching. So many singers view teaching as what they do in retirement or when they don't make it. They either have faulty techniques or an inability to communicate those things that come naturally to them. Even great singer don't know exactly how it's done. And occasionally jealousy and resentnents cause the teacher to unconsciouly sabotage the student.
Queen Jeremey at its finest
About Horne. Its a means to a finished product....
E's and oo's are closed vowels
The odd comment, taken out of context, is NOT a basis to judge anyone or anything. "Opera should sound dark" is a perfectly ridiculous comment - when taken in isolation and out of context; Well, honestly, I can't really think of any situation where a generalization that broad isn't stoopid.
The tenor voice is can be precarious. You have to allow a much more energized breath connection that is difficult to balance in sweeter belcanto rep. Hadley does a beautiful job of finding the chiaroscuro in his sound. Polenzani has that in droves live, but here you hear much more forward focused projection to help with the passaggio. But there’s a lot of squillo! I haven’t heard Brownlee or javier live.
Doing and teaching are totally different disciplines. Many great singers from the past weren't taught by singers. Great talent cannot be passed to others because it is exclusive to that person. Great teachers don't create the talent, they nurture and develop it. Lots of opera singers like to do master classes to remain in the public eye and, of course, for recompense.
I'll go off script and give an example. Some years ago my daughter was a talented violinist. I took her to the Wigmore Hall to see Joshua Bell in concert. After the performance, she managed to get back stage and speak with the virtuoso. She asked him how he did a particular shift. He replied that he didn't know, he just did it.
I think master classes are terribly detrimental and just a very bad idea for a whle bunch of reasons. I wish they would just go away.
Start by doing a tenth of the career of these singers you criticize and you will be able to speak. The fact of wanting to impose only one way of doing things on all singers shows that you have very little teaching experience. The vibrational sensations are different depending on where you are in the vocal range of the singer. Imposing an affondo on a singer who swells his voice is madness. Likewise, wanting to forcibly place a voice that is tight in the mask is also madness. Teachers who are gurus and claim to have the absolute truth should be banned from teaching. There are as many vocal particularities as there are students. It is up to the teacher to use all his knowledge and to demonstrate the greatest humility. For my part, I have been singing for 45 years and teaching for 30. The more I advance, the more I doubt.
The singing technique is always the same. Or it should be at least.
So u should be a singer to pointed out what is right or wrong? Your logic is funny.
GLV died in 1979. If you are a credible singer and a teacher, why don't you use your real name? Incredibly enough, GLV stood firm for his technique. See some of his videos critiquing a few singers who came in the 1970s.
The end result that the audience hears is really all that matters. It doesn't help that audiences have become not very discerning and overly conditioned by acceptance of pop music
Kraus sounds good here, but what about his nasality? Could we compare him to Schipa or Valetti?
Definitely no… I think Kraus sounds good if we compare him to the likes of Florez ou Villazon… but as soon as we here Schipa, Valetti or Pavarotti in his brilliant begging days, we can’t really put him amongst the best…
@@drefesou8912Kraus' nasality got visibly worse as he aged too. Here he sounds pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. But as he got later in his career he got worse and worse. I've heard some totally nasal Cs out of his mouth that had me absolutely cringing! Bad enough to deal with that. But the other problem is dealing with people who deny it completely, who tell me that Kraus has NEVER gone nasal, that I don't know what I'm talking about.
@@mickey1849yeah some singer lose projection becuase they are not closing the nose valve behind the nostrils because they get lazy and thats why the sound goes into their nose
@@drefesou8912 Pavarotti's "brilliant begging days." Well put! I love it!!!!!!!! 🌺
@@martinrogan6641 It may be laziness with some. But laziness can be corrected. Most of the problems are people like Kraus, I think. His voice somewhere has an "anatomical flaw." He covers for it through the years. If he gains enough fans to overlook this, and the flaw is not pronounced, then maybe he makes a living as a singer. But for singers not employing/unable to employ proper singing technique, the usual direction the flaw takes over the years is to become worse, more pronounced, and less easy to control. There are many and various reasons for this. But the simplest explanation I suppose, is that the muscles become fatigued over the years. It's not so easy doing it as when one was young. Making allowances for the flaw becomes more and more difficult and stressful, as the voice is not always keen on cooperating.
As a professional working opera singer I just have one question? Is the creator of this channel, an opera singer, a working professional opera singer as opposed to someone who watches masterclasses on TH-cam and obviously doesn’t have a clue about technique? To criticise the teaching of these absolute greats - whose careers speak for themselves - is absolutely astounding. To pick out tiny snippets of a lesson/masterclass and hold it up as poor teaching, is astonishing.
These comments make complete sense if one understands everything that makes up vocal technique. An incredibly complex technique to learn and master. Nasal - is trying to get the singer to sing in the ‘mask’ as opposed to an unpleasant ‘covered’ sound in the back. It’s only to learn placement, you are definitely not meant to have any nasal sound/tone when singing. But you start there. If you don’t understand this basic point, please take this down. You’re making yourself the 🤣 - not the singer/s.
Uh.. that's a scary comment, because the real whole point is the end result and that's all that matters. To me the point in the video makes total sense in light of what i hear lately coming from the opera world, as opposed to what it was like before, when i was growing up in a family that was heavily into opera and basically i heard them all.. couldn't help it. The changes in the end result is undeniable. Almost all these current singers have weird characteristics in their singing that makes them just unpleasant and disappointing. That's not how you're supposed to walk away after experiencing supposed masters of the art. It's quite disconcerting. This video is spot on because the proof is in the pudding. I won't even mention when Flores tells someone to sing breathy. mama mia.. 😳😲😱 actually explains a lot about what the problem is
Well said!
I studied with two true masters of vocal pedagogy. One of which has close ties to Nielson and the Swedish/Italian method. Often, exercises and masterclasses, they have singers exaggerate to get the desired result-example: a singer with too much darkness or have a swallowed sound. The professor would, in the short time try to brighten the sound to balance it. These snippets do not tell the full story. Now, there are places I find that are ridiculous-Florez (in every way) introducing breathiness. There are performers that are not good teachers. I wouldn’t knock Horne or Nilsson, they had technique to burn.
This person definitely didn't ever sing but he has some points.
6:05 you see how he closes his muscle behind the nose thats how you get projected squillo and true voice of the person.
Simionato was great
Comme c'est étrange d'isoler 10 secondes d'une consigne, sans savoir ce qui précède ni ce qui suit, sans savoir ce que proposait initialement l'étudiant, sans rien expliquer... et c'est encore plus étrange de se moquer de chanteur.euse.s qui ont fait des carrières longues et brillantes, de prendre une note mal émise pour critiquer l'ensemble d'une pensée musicale. C'est une attitude anti pédagogique, non?
Uh.. didn't Flores tell the student to sing with more breathiness? Absolutely astounding. That's a complete degradation of undersanding what opera is. I think pop singing is the real culprit
Di Dinato and her student are making the sort of noises you hear about 4 in th morning with the neighbourhood cats.
so true!
On TH-cam I find so many singers' comments to be vicious. I might be more interested in what you were saying if you removed the stupid emojis and derisive tone (and fixed your English).
Wait, doesn't this video belong to Barone Scarpia? :/
Fleming, Didonato and Nilsson, what the hell are they even saying??? They make absolutely no sense. Florez is also bullshit. Poor singers... how could they be anything but confused?
Totally disagree with Florez!
Que tontisimo comentario poner en duda brillantes carreras como Horne, Flórez, gente que solo canta en la ducha.
It’s not questioning brilliant careers. It’s questioning the technique and teaching of many of these singers, some of whom have no clue how they do what they do. Did you actually listen to the clips of the older singers, who knew what they were doing with open voices?
А что Каллас она пела тремя не сглаженными регистрами
Not all singers are good teachers and some good teachers dont sing well! Go figure
you don't have to sing dark, ok in this case yes, but generally a lot of compositions would sound poorly is sang only in dark mode :) :) :) But nasal hahahaha duck singing
I can't say I enjoyed Jerry Hadley.
American operatic singing is the absolute worst, in general.
Except for Barbara Bonney, who worked in another tradition.
I absolutely disagree about Blake. He's probably the best Rossini tenor ever existed. By the way, Ah mes amis is not is best performance, but he remains unmatched in his repertoire. I thought this was a serious channel...
What a dreadful video to make fool of distinguished singers!
I’ve had some lessons for La Nilsson in a masterclass and she did really meet us all in the masterclass with various instructions depending in which part of our development we were. The problem today is all the pushing to try to sound more rich in the voice than you are able to. The man that you glorify in this video as a good example - his instructions voile ruin a voice for ever.
My wife who studied for the Wagnerian tenor Helge Brillioth can verify the process to go from the small to the big sound!
If you can’t sing simple, light tones you probably have a damage on your vocal cords - a checking point in your voice-health.
With a great experience in jurywork for operachorus you hear this broken/ruined voices in young ages depending on the singers faulse believe in the way you suggest to work.
What a load of mean spirited rubbish. Everyone's voice is different. You should never try and copy the sound of someone else. All that matters in the end is if the audience likes it.
I dont see much bad teaching here, but whoever made this likes heavy, open, chesty lowered larynx and loud . Above all, loud , it seems. Del Monaco is always a thrill, until the unrelenting loudness and lack of variety grow tiresome. But he did include Schipa, so my theory is not completely true.
This channel is knowingly misrepresenting exercices (both correct and debatable) as on stage practice. It's dishonest and actually feels mean spirited...
Sorry but if youve got no idea about technique you shouldnt insult the professional singers just because you dont like their sound. Especially not with such a bad editing
This. Exactly.
Whoever made this sounds like one of those old snobs. But despite that, I appreciate it because it's like a window to the old times. It shows me the nuances of different techniques and how human bias plays a part in finding the "correct" sound
I agree about being disrespectful but they do make really good poibts. Besides the belittling.
No. It’s you who has no idea. If you think Flores’s teachings for example is correct, then you’re the 1 who needs to go back to studying. B/c that goes completely against the way OPERA is supposed to be sung.
@@isntitrich000 How is that author bias? Opera is not subjective because it has it owns standard.
A voice should be dark, full, and released. And it's useful because Opera don't use mic amplification. U need those three factors for being able to cut through thick instrument *without sounding like u r screaming or nosiy buzz*
If u have neither of it, then u r FAILED as an opera singers.
Great voice is not subjective.
Offensive, unprofessional video!
Someone who probably hasn't had a career himself is defaming great artists in the cheapest possible way.
Pure crap.
Silly opera;who told you that opera should sound dark?Methinks you`re deluded.
Your knowledge about singing and understanding of the coaching process is totally lacking.
Nilson is nobody, she is just a mezzo, what they know about singing? Like mezzo callas.
Guelfi? Teaching a screams to be like a bass caruso.
"Great" hadley? 5:58 bari forced a top.
7:16 that yells are awful by mezzo.
Channels are dont know nothing on timbres, more and more nonsense
I see you're from the "most singers are baritone and mezzo" camp who then leave the rest of us wondering "where did all the big voices go?"
Yet your comment is about individual singers. When people make comments like this, I always wonder what YOU sound like since you seem to
Be the arbiter.
Oh what an ignorant comment! Who do you really think you are? Birgit Nilsson became court singer in 1954 and received the corresponding title, Kammersängerin, in Austria in 1968 and then also in Bavaria in 1970. She became a member of the Royal Academy of Music in 1960 and was named professor in 1998. And she was in high demand in all the world's opera houses.
You sound like when someone has been drinking and one hears an undisguised burp and a bottle falling over, indicating that nothing good is gonna come from the situation.
The author is making fun of people who are advocating too much chiaro while advocating a purely scuro approach.
Basically, it is like saying I only like singers who sing in one imbalanced way and will now make fun of all singers who sing another way.
Can you explain to me what chiaroscuro means? Sounds like it could be a problematic term.
@@comment6864 In Questa Reggia is a good example, where in the high notes everyone today sound like their tongue is wobbling around in the mouth, they are scooping to the notes and sound like they are pushing with everything they have.