“Get home-itis” can be a killer; “The 180 degree turn is a great safety device”…both of these per my Instrument Ground Instructor, Mr. Van Stiffler @ Fort Wayne, Indiana, Baer Field (before it was Fort Wayne International). That “180 degree turn” saved my life one time. Thank you, Van!!!
The previous chief pilot, who was relieved of duty, deserves a medal for not sending others to their death. The genius who relieved him should be relieved of his duty.
It's always sad when desk jockeys don't understand the dangers of the real world, because some chart said it wasn't "profitable" or the risk was "too low a factor". The same almost happend to a buddy of mine who declined to put one of his station's EMT on duty (in replacement of one who called in sick last minute) after that EMT just got off a 24 hour shift. Dispatch reported him (because of the "missing" ambulance on the roster) and his boss (the administrative EMS boss of a city or town, who is not an EMT himself - I don't know the US equivalent of that) put a formal reprimand in his file. Luckily the chief of the fire departement had some sense and struck the reprimand off the record.
@@QemeH i worked in Aussie commonweath govt for 17 years.. Problem I have is this. A system is setup called a framework. It has no tolerance for any variations. Any issues consumers have, get pigeonholed into stats and not individually addressed. For example i recently reported a safety issue with new stairs at train station. Only 3/5 bolts attached to steps, no roughing up of steps. So In Wet, step move and is slippery as ice. This was logged as an "infrsstructure safety issue" and reported as one of 30 safety issues online. The safety team don't see my report so do not get a sense of the problem. They then get pissed off as they are accused of failure all the time but it's not their fault that they have wrong info. So they leave and we lose good people. Fix: everyone should be able to talk to everyone, just like we do here. Imagine how many solutions we as a discussion group could work out if someone took the comments in TH-cam seriously.
@@ChadDidNothingWrong Exactly. People hear one sentence in a TH-cam video and suddenly they're experts in what should and should not have been done. Of course THEY are not being desk jockeys -- the narrator has already said that the conditions were "high-risk", and so they know it was an instadeath to even try. No details are necessary for our stalwart experts.
After significant physical effort, (carrying the girl up the hill), at that altitude, it's likely that pilot was hypoxic, so his judgement might well have been impaired.
At 12,000 feet, the pilot is the one to hike out and then return, carrying the girl uphill. He was already tired before the mission. Add a little hypoxia to the fatigue...not a great combo for good judgment. A shame they didn’t hunker down in the helicopter overnight.
Agreed. Using hindsight, I think the takeaway here would be to land well below the rescue and hike up to do the rescue. Then the hike back with the girl would have been downhill and the takeoff may have been in VFR. Failing that, bring aid and hunker down or just note the location and send that info back to a hiking rescue. Yes, a well considered plan is always the best way to improve results for everyone.
Agree with the original commentor. I was once with search and rescue, we would train at 12k feet and it would be easy to make bad decisions due fatigue, its worst than DWI. We would have a checklist, go no-go, and risk assessments before the flight. You're goin to have all personality types, I believe it's how your organization conducts itself and provides guidance. The failure is really from the call at base that only suggested to stay put. I believe they are at fault, they know how many missions he flew, is now over extended, hiked, and allowed the pilot to take a fourth mission. To place all the blame on the pilot... there's a reason why you have to request special VFR and it's not suggested to pilots. The base made a suggestion it's now their responsibility
Yes. But some people are bad at "do nothing" as the best solution. I've made those calls, spent the night in the desert under an emergency blanket, waiting for sunlight. But some people really have a hard time to let go, and not act.
Any kind of rescue personnel knows that you don’t put yourself at risk even if it’s to save another life, that’s the reason why ambulances go the speed limit and you put your mask first in the airplane and other stuff like that
@@santiagoqr1 that's false lol. Every professional first responder knows there is risk on every call, and it is their job to determine the level of risk and make a decision based on many factors such as potential gain, policy, ethics, etc.
Megumi Yamamoto, a University of New Mexico physics graduate student from Tokyo, was also confirmed dead earlier Thursday after rescuers reached the bodies.The only other person aboard, state police officer Wesley Cox, sustained serious leg injuries but managed to reach safety Wednesday.Rescue efforts had been hampered by snow, low clouds and wind Wednesday. But the weather broke Thursday, allowing Black Hawk helicopters to airlift searchers as close as they could to the wreckage to look for Yamamoto and Tingwall.Just before smashing into the mountain Tuesday night, the sleek police copter, designed for just such high-altitude rescue missions, picked up Yamamoto after she become stranded while hiking.Cox's right leg was crushed, his back injured. Soon, hypothermia set in. He hunkered down for the night inside the downed chopper with his pilot within earshot. Through the night, Tingwall and Cox alternately called out to each other.When daybreak came Wednesday, Cox, badly injured and uncertain where Tingwall was, decided he needed to hike out for help, broken bones and all. He walked less than a mile
Had no idea the pilot was not killed instantly. Hearing each other call out in the night must've been torment. Rest in peace. Hope Officer Cox healed 100%.
These videos are so awesome. It´s one of the things that make internet worthwhile. We all tend to judge the pilot "why did he take off?". It´s so obvious AFTER it happens and when we are away from the problem and situation. So, that final statement "instead of shaking you head you may think "what would lead me to that kind of decision"... whow that was right on the spot. If you are an aviator you certainly, at some point, bent your safety a little due to a factor or another. That kind of reflection is really good.
Analyze this specific incident again. The only conclusion is the pilot was one of the dumbest dirtbags ever to get a pilot’s license. And he had a safe alternative!!!! And he killed two people. Most vfr pilots who find themselves in ifr don’t have a perfectly safe alternative. Our “hero” did. Shaking my head over his stupidity. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I had one of those "high-speed type" pilots in my squadron. I also was relieved from my duties as operations manager and he happily took my place. Now he is dead, his body was never fully recovered, and I'm still alive and flying. Yeah, he had a risky personality. But the real problem is in the organization. An organization which destroys the careers of smart and prudent pilots while rewards the less judicious and riskier pilots, is looking for a disaster. And somebody in the organization should pay for it. This never happens, and the same errors occur again and again. I would like the video had talked about this.
@@OmmerSyssel Says the guy whose name is really just two letters - L R. Left right. Cause that's the only words you're gonna say when I'm doing your mom
Very good contribution. I feel angry at organisations who reward risk takers and make a cautious and situationally aware person feel pressured into doing something they both know is dangerous. At the end of the day, the hiker wasn’t rescued at all, a helicopter was destroyed, the pilot killed and the policeman badly injured. I can see why he felt obliged to help in the search, but if he was only qualified for VFR then he shouldn’t have flown after sunset. Nobody would have thought badly of him. He could have stayed in the helicopter until the morning - if anyone wanted them moved before that, then they needed to work out rescuing the 3 of them. Incidentally, why didn’t the policeman help with the rescue instead of staying in the helicopter? He could have helped to carry the woman up the mountain which must have been a strenuous task for one man.
The first thing you’re taught in EMS is that a dead rescuer rescues no one. It’s a reminder to think it through and not be a hero. I’ve taken that through life with me and have used that saying in many situations that have nothing to do with EMS. It makes me stop and think about what I’m about to do and the consequences of it.
The first thing we always said in class “The scene...is safe” If we are called, there’s already a problem. There was nobody else available, so we show up. If we go down, now you need TWO MORE crews, one for us, and one for the original call. Same thing with EVOC, if we wreck on the way to a wreck, now we have twice the problems, and half the solving.
In wilderness travel, including sea kayaking, we call this type of error a "failure to back off the plan". It's a very common cause of close calls and fatalities. The fact that this type of accident is so common illustrates the fact that we're hard-wired to push on in the face of obstacles. Once the mission or expedition or trip is defined, it's easy to keep on pushing. That isn't a bad thing, but in situations where pausing and reevaluating the situation is required, it can lead to disaster.
Seems if anything.. Dropping the spotter and leaving. The spotter could direct ground crew to the location and provide food water and thermal mylar blankets.
As an old Army Warrant Officer once told me, “fly stupid, die stupid.” Unfortunately, he killed himself and the person they were supposed to be rescuing. Amazing that the spotter survived the crash. Also have to wonder if the spotter told the pilot about the recommendation to shelter in place, or just left it unspoken.
Reminds me of Nevada Barr. She wrote fiction in which people take off into difficult terrain and have trouble where it is almost impossible to send out rescue teams. Four Corners. As I read, I thought "Are there really idiots who do this to the Park Service?" But nothing is too stupid for some human beings. Hey, hikers. You got this one life. Throw it away if it means so little to you.
As a helicopter pilot, a big problem I’ve seen is letting emotions and personality get in the way of safety and unnecessary risks are taken. Pushing VFR minima, fuel, a little faster, a little further a little longer etc..
No, there is no sane reason to take a risk with those high winds at that altitude in the dark with only VFR rating. I don't give a shit what the pilot "wanted" to do. He was a stupid ass that wanted to be a fucking hero.
@@randymaatta8824 And he had a perfectly safe alternative. Pilots who find themselves in ifr conditions made a bad decision, but they didn’t choose to fly into ifr ahead of time.
I've backpacked to lake Katherine and have watched a wall of rain and wind an hail come across the lake right before taking shelter. My first thoughts after he got back from carrying a human uphill off trail in that weather surely would be to embrace that shelter till the storm passed. I'm not a pilot but I can't imagine taking off in weather that severe.
This is so sad. The pilot made a horrible judgement, and the one he was meant to rescue paid for it. It was noble of him to want to rescue the hiker before nightfall, but then they should have stayed put until the weather got better.
Why did she need rescuing. Injury? See, I'm not a fan of "hiking" at all. But if I ever chose to do this thing, it would not lead me to any remote area. So easy to twist a joint and become lame.
I appreciate the hell out of these! Most organizations sound preachy and dumb but when a flick of a switch or slight oversight for a fraction of a second can kill you.....its very sobering to learn from the deaths of fellow pilots.
I hope this gets used for training for all search and rescue pilots, particularly those in the mountains. Hopefully camping out in the chopper until conditions improve will be taught and encouraged.
I want to add I don't mean this as a slight against the pilot. He sounds like a great man, someone who represents the best of what we can strive to be. One night while tired, most likely exhausted and low on oxygen he made a mistake. I am not so holy to claim I have never made a mistake. I don't operate a helicopter but I have made my share of mistakes behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. I try to learn from each and never repeat them. But for the grace of God go I. Just a heartbreaking case any way you look at it. The fact that the severely injured police spotter survived the night brings up that the original call to refuse the mission may well have been the correct one. Hopefully this case is studied and lessons are learned.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but wouldn’t a better decision have been to keep warm inside the helicopter for the night, and only fly it when the weather calmed in the morning?
Or if you have to fly, climb out of the clouds while keeping the helicopter level, once you start seeing where you're going THEN start moving towards the landing site.
@@michaelbuckers The Agusta A109E Power has a service ceiling of 15,000 feet. In bad weather conditions with turbulent air and peaks around at 13,000 feet you would be right on the limits of the helicopter. Also, good luck flying above the clouds when you are already at your limits. You never HAVE to fly. In this case, the only time to fly would be in VFR and calm weather, regardless of IFR rating. Neither of which were the case.
As a military-trained, NVG qualified, and IFR certified pilot I wouldn't have departed that mountain top either unless the hiker's condition required immediate medical care I couldn't provide. But I am also instrument certified and would have climbed up and away, yes through the clouds, to a safe altitude and asked ATC for radar vectors for an instrument approach back to Santa Fe. Easy. I'm always surprised when law enforcement hires pilots who are police officers first and gives them just the basics of flight training and certification rather than hire seasoned pilots, such as military veterans and give them the basics of law enforcement. Aviation is the higher standard. Learning how to chase bad guys is just a variation of military training.
Wow, you sir are a pompous ass. I can let the comment about policing just being a variation of military training go because a lot of soldiers think civilian police are stooges. But when rolling out all your credentials and criticism, I didn't see where you slipped in a dime's worth of sympathy for a guy who was at least trying to save another life. Usually when I speak to someone in the military I thank them for their service. No need to thank you, I'm sure you do that every time you pass a mirror.
ccso414 Proceeds even farther to be an, "Ass." I sometimes wonder if you people have the slightest bit of self-awareness... And never bad mouth my mother, ErikT. She-He deezurvs yer rispekt!
Erik T Couldn’t Agree more. Flown in those mountains a bunch on OAS/FS contracts. ATP CFI-I, A&P and ANVIS IP here. Should have called in location and 180 Out. They were in over their heads before it started. A lot of that mindset (Police/Fire first, then pilot) all over the country. Sadly it continues.....
I fly in Europe. The first rule of a EMS or S&R is not to increase the number of dead or injured. If you’re not 100 pct sure that you can do the victim a service, don’t. If the hiker was not critical, then no need to endanger her life anymore than she already had. You’re not going to get fired for saving three lives and a ship.
@@carey-gregory & DDT Absolutely: I think that was the problem here. The guy thought he was OK to fly west to better weather & visibility. Sad decision. RIP.
@@SamSpade2010 if you are 98% sure you're not a helicopter pilot. its either black or its white. any shade of gray is not for piloting helicopters. 98 pct? you don't motor the turbines. any pilot will tell you. its already potentially risky at 100 why add another 2 pct? helicopters are complex and unstable machines and disasters are always a chain of events that maybe started few days before
Exactly what I thought. Sleeping in the helicopter overnight though wouldn't have changed that though and would've even made for a more heroic rescue. You never know if he simply wanted to be home for the night rather than possibly wasting a day off work returning the next morning, or whatever his personal situation. Tragic story though.
If there were no rescuers that took risks, nobody would ever be rescued. It’s all about calculated risk. His bravery and sheer determination does not make him a poor pilot. However, for what ever reason, he didn’t seem to accurately reassess the situation for the calculated risk AFTER the hiker was secure inside the helo.
This type of scenario was very prevalent when I worked in EMS as a helicopter pilot 🚁. Unfortunately, I read many NTSB reports of cohorts doing this very thing. And when you have some management types that promote risky behavior, it won't be long until your company will experience the same outcome. 😭
Making the go/no go decision is much harder when someone's life is on the line, but they had a well built ready-made shelter right there. Why not sit tight and spend the night on the mountain in the helicopter?
Any pilot that has a hard time making go-no-go decisions based on whether someone's life is on the line needs to get out of the cockpit and into another line of work before they kill someone. Aviation has worked long and hard to get the pilot's head away from the military's "complete the mission" mindset to "can the flight be completed safely" It took years to detach the pilot's decision as to whether to accept a flight or not was based on flight safety criteria and not on the old "the baby will die if you don't go" criteria of early HEMS days. This particular accident was doomed from the start and blame starts at the top trickling down to the lowest level. The flight department needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from the top down.
@@snakechrmr6398 When someone's life on the line you must always make an attempt. But it doesn't mean you have to push it until you die too. Call it quits if it gets far too dangerous, losing one person is better than losing one person plus an experienced pilot plus an extremely expensive aircraft.
reverse thrust yeah, when I started flying in 06 it was preferred, not required but now it seems most places demand Instrument rating, especially medevac.
I'm aware I don't know anything about the subject, but I need to ask, why not get IFR training if you're supposed to be ready to launch anytime in any weather? Maybe this guy was in the process of it or something?
Dennis Kitainik You aren't a pilot are you? Typical IFR conditions are conditions that most pilots avoid. Just because you can fly in the clouds doesn't mean you should. It's your kind of thinking that gets pilots killed. Nice try though.
Noogs YOU are obviously not a pilot -- commercial pilots fly in the clouds all the time! Had everyone been following your way of thinking, we'd have delayed and cancelled flights ALL the time, and nobody would get to their destination on time!
I'm not a pilot. I couldn't possibly comment on flying actions, but I could comment on steps that I might have taken in his position. 1. If everyone was in relatively safe medical condition, and there was no rush to leave - that might have impacted on my decision. 2. The helicopter as mentioned, would have provided adequate shelter for the night for all three occupants. If there was water on board, and comfortable seating for 3 passengers, that's infinitely more acceptable than taking unnecessary risks. Wait it out until the morning, I'm reassess options. Perhaps, if it got very cold, occasionally idling engines during the night providing heat for the cabin might have been a solution as well. 3. He could have stopped just for a moment, and thought "I'm not IFR rated, so therefore flying in mountainous conditions at night, regardless of the want to get home, might be precipitous to a inevitable and holy preventable accident." I don't know what went through his mind that night, or the conditions that he was flying in - but I know that sometimes the need to preserve life, whether in a car, helicopter or in a plane, should outweigh any other factors. Yes, hindsight's a wonderful thing, and it's easy for me to state the fact after. Especially as a non pilot. But I do know, that sometimes, just stopping to think for a few seconds and running through your options is always a good idea. RIP to those involved.
A sad ending to a brave rescue attempt. I am not a pilot of any description but it seems to me that this whole situation began with a hiker in mountainous terrain without sufficient bad weather clothing / emergency kit to survive the conditions. RIP.
I always carry an emergency blanket. Both for visibility in an emergency, and to have an option to wait out unsafe alternatives if needed. I have used it twice in my life. I would have survived without it, probably, but this made it a relatively comfortable option. Sometimes just sit tight and do not act is the best option. I have friends who find that really hard. But I have also taken decisions to just stop a car at the side of the road and wait out bad weather or other circumstances.
I think the mission oriented mindset is the correct mindset for helicopter search and rescue, given that had the pilot not flown the mission the hiker would likely have died of hypothermia. The only real error here was that the pilot seemingly forgot that the mission is to save the hiker, not kill her by hitting a mountain. Camping in the aircraft over night would have prevented that outcome and still completed the mission.
Been Into avionics since the 90s when I attended an airshow and saw the mighty f14, the harrier , the eagle and the blue angels. I've never piloted a plane and suspect I never will. However despite that knowledge I am very intrigued by these videos and have a good understanding of essentially all the slang and procedure and must say I really appreciate the effort and educational aspects these videos offer. I should also mention IM an island boyyyy
This is an amazing lesson for every realm of the human experience. How our personalities can cause us to err greatly in anything. Air flight being perhaps the most unforgiving of these errors.
I camped out in a helicopter many times in the Army. While my situation was better than sleeping in a small tent on the ground in the rain I was in better conditions than the infantry BUT, I can assure you it was no fun.
Well, I fly both fixed and rotor wing, I am also, instrument rated in both. There is a couple of problems, first of which there is really very few instruments certified and equipped helicopters on the civil side of things. Single Pilot IFR in a helicopter can be done if so equipped and you are trained and current and very proficient at instrument flying. Night in the Mountains, with Snow, and Icing conditions in the clouds, better to just sit it out, I done that more that a few times in my 42 years of flying. Keeping a sleeping bag or two in the aircraft and something to eat along with a couple of blankets. that stuff don't weigh much. It's a high price to pay. I don't know what the internal politics within that aviation unit were or are or the other pressures that was on the pilot. I been there, one of the hardest things I had to learn was to say No, and saying no aways came with a price, mostly being fired on the spot. No job is worth the price this fellow and that lady paid.
+George Semel Being an S&R helicopter I would expect them to be carrying several drop bags of basic survival supplies, as they can buy vital hours for ground teams to reach the persons in distress in the event that the conditions or environment preclude an actual landing. It makes sense to think about adding a survival bag in your own private aircraft too of course just that given the nature of this helicopters role it would have been shocking if that wasn't part of it's standard payload.
This is a great video for teaching people that find themselves in tricky situations, to not make it worse by refusing to change their original plans and course of action but instead always error on the side of safety even if it results in inconvenience, lost comfort or someone’s disapproval or unhappiness. This clearly is often not an easy thing to do. I learned my lesson and luckily got away with it, but at least I realized how it could have gone very wrong. I always listen to the advice of the most qualified person, take the safest course of action even if it means there will be a few unhappy, grumpy but very much ALIVE people in my group. You might get away with complacency once in awhile, but... you better smarten up eventually.
I am wondering why a SAR pilot wouldn't be IFR qualified. Is it because flying in IMC is different from a fixed wing aircraft? I imagine that instrumentation differs since a fixed wing doesn't hover and the rotary craft is dealing with an additional axis that doesn't come into play quite as much in forward flight, but I don't know. Seems more challenging than fixed wing. Do helicopters have radio altimeters for IFR conditions?
The guy can only fly visual and decides to take off in poor weather by night. My course of action: *"Hi, honey we're stuck here in the mountain because I can't see shit, we might even have to spend the night here but I'm not taking any chances, are the kinds in bed already?"*
I really am so lost on that, I've flown about 500 hours now at night and still to this day, if there's clouds or any weather at night especially high overcast and I'm gonna be flying VFR over a pitch black dark desert, screw the trip, not worth it. Not to mention the terrain isn't lit, highways are dark, maybe few headlights if you're lucky. Single engine? Helicopter? You're playing russian roulette now. Seriously, even with the mission mindset I don't understand why waiting it out inside the helicopter while the weather passed wasn't an option for him.
It was likely he was hypoxic, at 12,000 feet and after physical exertion. 12,000 feet is only 500 feet below where supplemental oxygen is required for unpressurised flights.
Even worse about this accident is that it might also have been prevented by simply getting a Japanese translator on the phone in a 3-way conference call.
Too bad for pilot Tingwall. I can hear the formerly relieved chief of pilots justifiably saying "I warned you guys about this". An odd twist to this case is that the stranded woman had called 911 7 times and the call was redirected to the actual sheriff's office desk. Not 911 services. Very odd. Very sad.
Very sad outcome. I regularly walk and climb in remote places, I fell once and broke my ankle, but was rescued by a team who walked in with a stretcher, I would hate to think my rescue could cause the death of the rescuer. These videos are amazing, well structured and very informative, and I only pilot a laptop.
I agree with the first comment. It is easy to get in to the mindset that the hard part is done and that there is somehow a "safe zone" that radiates around your home base. "I'll be fine, it's a short flight and have done it 100's of times" I agree with others that hypoxia had set in and clouded his judgement. Seems to me the pilot should have stayed with the plane and let the State Policeman go get the hiker. The call to "stay put" or whatever came in while the pilot was getting the hiker. We don't know if the Policeman relayed that to the pilot or not. It is easy in hindsight for us all to say "He should have stayed on the mountain." He made one bad decision and there is no record of anyone trying to stop him. I assume there was radio contact made before taking off? If so I wonder why no one pointed out "You are VFR rated and it is dark. Stay put."
"The previous chief pilot was relieved of his duties after refusing to send pilots on a high risk mission."It sounds like the person in upper management over the deceased pilot had the most poor judgment. I hope he got disciplined for his contribution to the accident.
This is a very important point. Culture has such a great influence on these types of decisions. It totally makes sense why he took the risk in light of this culture. Probably felt that he had no other choice.
To play devil's advocate, they could have gotten flak from the public who accused them of ignoring victims in the past. People get fired all the time for making their department "look bad".
It is always hard to make decisions in rescue operations. Taking risks kind of comes with the job, as you need to weigh them against saving someone's life. I bet most people do that job because they think it is the right thing to do and cannot really turn down mission if there is no one else to go and it is not clear it would be suicide. Anyway I think that rescue pilot should have just one job only and that is flying. Others should be employed to carry out the rest of the rescue operation, because especially in rescue operations pilots need to risk and they better focus on their job and do not get distracted with other things or it can lead to disaster. IFR rating helps but IMC can be deadly even if you are rated.
This isn’t something you aren’t trained for. He, more than anyone, should make great decisions. He had a perfectly safe alternative. And he chose to fly into ifr conditions. Let’s go over that again. 1. He chose to fly into ifr conditions. Non rated pilots end up in ifr conditions got there through a bad decision, but they didn’t decide to fly there. This clown did. 2. He had a perfectly safe alternative. Non rated pilots who find themselves in ifr conditions don’t. He killed himself and Megumi, and SERIOUSLY injured his partner. How stupid can one be?
You people do an outstanding job with these recreations. Graphics and explanations are awesome. That being said, after watching dozens of these, my only takeaway is pilot arrogance and ego- every time !
That can certainly be a factor, but I don't see arrogance or ego here. I see that mission hyperfocus they described. I also see a worldwide problem - the attitude of air rescue pilots, fed by us, that they are the only ones standing between someone in need and death. That's often the reality of it too. (That's why we have rescue pilots.) They feel a calling, a sense of duty to use their unusual skills, to take risks in order to save lives. It's hard for them to say no, and it's hard for us not to ask that of them. (If I had a daughter who was lost and freezing to death on a remote mountain, my perspective about rescue pilots taking risks would certainly be different.) It's a matter of the degree of risk and likelihood of success. We expect our soldiers, police, firefighters, and other rescue workers to take risks too. We honor people who answer those callings. Sometimes they find themselves on their own, and they don't get it right. They make bad mistakes, and people die. Humans do that. All we can do at that point is learn from them, but it seems a shame to write them off as arrogant or egotistical. One solution, regardless of what drives that thinking (arrogance or something more noble), was proposed by the UK to the EU before Brexit - mandate two pilots on all air ambulance flights. They can act as a check on each other if one wants to take senseless risks. They can work as a team, which helps to combat fatigue and widens tunnel vision. Air ambulance and air mountain rescue operations are obviously different, but they both share that same vulnerability - the unchecked desire of a single pilot to save someone's life, and their willingness to operate at a higher level of risk to accomplish that goal. Just add a second pilot. They jointly assess the situation and share the risk. It'll cost more up front, but fewer dead pilots and rescuees and fewer bent aircraft would probably offset that.
@@tyroniousyrownshoolacez2347 Ego and arrogance can be demonstrated by referring to your own opinion as fact. It's ok for you to stick to your opinion, but it will by no means make your opinion rational. I've done a fair bit of reading and research on this topic, particularly involving two air ambulance crashes in the UK, and if you write off such complex tragedies with such a simplistic response, you're only inviting more of the same tragedies. Pilots are people, and they will act as people predictably act. That's what human factors analysis is all about, and it an extremely important component in any air crash investigation. Our goal should not be assigning blame, but saving lives, and there are lessons we can learn from tragedies like this that WILL save lives. I am grateful that those responsible for such investigations appreciate the importance of human factors analysis. You are of course free to disagree. Your ignorance in this area won't endanger anyone.
Yeah, that is what I do not understand either. The pilot clearly wanted to help, and I can kind of see why. However this is exactly the situation where the pilot should stay in the aircraft and plan safe way home and ponder how bad weather is bad enough for him to stay. And he needs to keep all his energy for the safe flight back, because during flight no one else will fly the helicopter. Pilot has to focus on piloting during search of rescue, because well, when saving someone else's life usually goes against the safety of the crew and the pilot need to make the right calls how much risk is worth continuing the mission. When the pilot is tired and exhausted it is more than likely it will lead to poor judgement and disaster.
"Along the way there are any number of places to rethink things, modify the plan, turn around - wait long enough though, and there eventually comes a point of no return - choose poorly then and all is lost." - @11:05
There was no risk to the hiker. Hiker was tired, a bit cold but very lost. No medical emergency. And the helicopter should have some first aid anyway. I think it was much safer to stay in the helicopter until daylight. The pilot was only VFR certified. He isn't legally allowed to fly at night. He was already worried about the wind and needing a second rescue. I think after fetching the hiker he got hypoxia. If the police spotter only knew anything about pilots and hypoxia, he/she would have stopped the pilot. A person who's afflicted by hypoxia cannot think properly and the brain defaults to it's last instructions. The person will appear normal with a bit of slow response and zombie type of movements. You can still talk to them they'll just look a bit dazed. The spotter probably deferred to the judgment of the hypoxic pilot who couldn't process the situation and decided to use his default decision of flying out despite the risks. When you see symptoms of a hypoxic pilot, you must take action. They cannot make decisions and will fly themselves to death.
Wait, it is requested that the pilot also goes out his chopper and go physically search and take the hiker ? IS he alone in this kind of missions ? What set of rules approve this kind of shady ops ?
This video is very well done and the point is very well taken...I am a GA pilot. As an aside question, with a gas turbine powered helicopter why did he not just go to 15000 feet? In other words isn't Vx = 0? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
The strangest thing in that case (maybe apart from lacking IFR training) is why the heck the pilot was the person to do all the job. Even in normal weather conditions at lower altitude, you wouldn't have been able to think clearly. In other episodes, you seem to repeat that pilots must be concentrated on their job even while in toilet taking s^%^ so am I missing something or there was some lack of procedures or they just cut corners on expenses not hiring a rescuer.
So many accidents of VFR pilots flying into IMC. As far as I'm concerned, every single pilot should recieve mandatory IFR training. I don't understand why VFR licences are still a thing.
Wow. He made some initial errors, but should have realized he was in over his head and waited out the night on the ridge. The irony is that the hiker would (obviously) have had a better chance riding out the storm on her own.
I am IFR rated in fixed wing but VFR only in rotorcraft. I was suprised that this pilot was not IFR rated. I remember reading that most pilots hand flying a helicopter that went into instrument conditions would lose control in about 8 seconds. Obviously a good autopilot might get a VFR pilot out of a jam. The conditions this pilot tried to fly in were not condusive to any type of flight even if he was instrument rated. Was this get homeitis? So close yet so far. I wonder if they had the capability of turning on the engine to generate some heat and survive the night. Did they have equipment to survive without engine heat? Very sad story as are most of these videos.
Pretty astonishing that the pilot would get out and go search for the girl while the spotter remains behind. Potential for so many complications from him leaving besides being exhausted. I didn't think they'd actually do that beyond going more than a few feet away let alone searching a mountain slope in the dark for over an hour. What would happen if he couldn't make it back, that would make 3 people who need rescue.
Very sad. This brings to mind something often said in skydiving but which is apropos in aviation as well (I'll replace the word skydivers with pilots): There are old pilots, and then there are bold pilots. But there are no old bold pilots.
Comments here mostly miss the point. Yes, we all know he shouldn't have taken off; it was a lapse in judgement. But he didn't really decide to take-off -- it was just the next step in the mission. The lesson is that you should always consider an alternative to 'the next step' in 'the mission' when things have become more dangerous than you anticipated. Make an active decision.
I’m completely confused here. A rescue pilot who is not IFR rated? But he was trained to use night vision glasses while piloting? What am I missing here? Is this common?
Too bad the spotter didn’t talk some sense into him. I understand though, cold, tired, has a pitiful hiker girl he carried, 15 min from a warm shelter. You don’t PLAN on dying, you never see it coming.
It's a tough decision, when you think you're close. I have found that it helps, if you are prepared for plan B. I always carry a safety blanket with me. I've used it twice. Not in life-or-death situations, but it made it much easier to make the decision to just stop and wait for dawn.
Failure of Crew Resource Management. Another mission error that wasn't mentioned in the video. It is REALLY easy to make incremental small errors that lead up to an accident like this. I have lost friends in this fashion. Breaking the chain of errors can save lives.
My thinking was that if you feel like you can get there but darkness and risky weather are closing in then just take a survival kit- sleeping bag, fire starter, food, hand warmers, signal flares and such and drop them for the hiker. That way the hiker is secure and then she could be recovered the next day. That's what they've done for downed military pilots who couldn't be extracted right away and it seems like it would have been a no-brainer for this scenario.
The previous pilot was relieved of duty for refusing a mission that he felt was too risky. The commander who relieved that pilot of duty is partly responsible for this tragedy. Rescue pilots, like politicians, should follow their truth. Job and reelection be damned. Don't let your paycheck cloud your judgment. If you work for an outfit that compromised pilots, blow the whistle on them. You can always get a new job, possibly as a commander. Especially when this commander loses his job, as he should for pressuring pilots to press on beyond the capabilities of the equipment and pilot skill and qualifications. In situations like this, an 'I-told-you-so moment' is almost guaranteed.
I don't think so, the heat usually runs off of bleed air from the engine's compressor section, and the 'sprague clutch' will allow the rotor to turn while the engine does not, but not the other way around.
Question from a non pilot: Could they not have spent the night in the helicopter and tried to leave in the morning? Does a helicopter have to be tied/secured down in such high winds?
Pre-planning and pre-written protocols are very important for air SAR and other rescues. You need to have protocols in place, and the crews need to be familiar with them, and be willing to follow them, such as "If the visibility and or weather conditions are X and proper equipment is not onboard, then the crew shall remain in place until more favorable conditions arise." When decisions are affected by emotion than having rules and standards to fall back on is the answer. Cowboys are for westerns and heroes are for deli orders. We want to help others, and we do, but if difference between a dead hiker and a dead hiker and a dead crew, you know what the answer is.
“Get home-itis” can be a killer; “The 180 degree turn is a great safety device”…both of these per my Instrument Ground Instructor, Mr. Van Stiffler @ Fort Wayne, Indiana, Baer Field (before it was Fort Wayne International). That “180 degree turn” saved my life one time. Thank you, Van!!!
The previous chief pilot, who was relieved of duty, deserves a medal for not sending others to their death. The genius who relieved him should be relieved of his duty.
It's always sad when desk jockeys don't understand the dangers of the real world, because some chart said it wasn't "profitable" or the risk was "too low a factor". The same almost happend to a buddy of mine who declined to put one of his station's EMT on duty (in replacement of one who called in sick last minute) after that EMT just got off a 24 hour shift. Dispatch reported him (because of the "missing" ambulance on the roster) and his boss (the administrative EMS boss of a city or town, who is not an EMT himself - I don't know the US equivalent of that) put a formal reprimand in his file. Luckily the chief of the fire departement had some sense and struck the reprimand off the record.
QemeH Bloody Admin Staff .. worse than the Devil.
@@QemeH i worked in Aussie commonweath govt for 17 years.. Problem I have is this. A system is setup called a framework. It has no tolerance for any variations. Any issues consumers have, get pigeonholed into stats and not individually addressed. For example i recently reported a safety issue with new stairs at train station. Only 3/5 bolts attached to steps, no roughing up of steps. So In Wet, step move and is slippery as ice. This was logged as an "infrsstructure safety issue" and reported as one of 30 safety issues online. The safety team don't see my report so do not get a sense of the problem. They then get pissed off as they are accused of failure all the time but it's not their fault that they have wrong info. So they leave and we lose good people.
Fix: everyone should be able to talk to everyone, just like we do here. Imagine how many solutions we as a discussion group could work out if someone took the comments in TH-cam seriously.
There's probably a little more to that.
@@ChadDidNothingWrong Exactly. People hear one sentence in a TH-cam video and suddenly they're experts in what should and should not have been done. Of course THEY are not being desk jockeys -- the narrator has already said that the conditions were "high-risk", and so they know it was an instadeath to even try. No details are necessary for our stalwart experts.
After significant physical effort, (carrying the girl up the hill), at that altitude, it's likely that pilot was hypoxic, so his judgement might well have been impaired.
And at night, and already tired.
Good point; probably adding get-home-itis to the balance.
I was expecting police spotter to come and get the girl while pilot kept helicopter running. What was he doing all that time?
Excellent observation!
avro549B h
At 12,000 feet, the pilot is the one to hike out and then return, carrying the girl uphill. He was already tired before the mission. Add a little hypoxia to the fatigue...not a great combo for good judgment. A shame they didn’t hunker down in the helicopter overnight.
I feel so bad for the pilot.
@@blackhawkorg I feel so bad for all of them.
Agreed. Using hindsight, I think the takeaway here would be to land well below the rescue and hike up to do the rescue.
Then the hike back with the girl would have been downhill and the takeoff may have been in VFR. Failing that, bring aid and hunker down or just note the location and send that info back to a hiking rescue.
Yes, a well considered plan is always the best way to improve results for everyone.
Agree with the original commentor. I was once with search and rescue, we would train at 12k feet and it would be easy to make bad decisions due fatigue, its worst than DWI. We would have a checklist, go no-go, and risk assessments before the flight.
You're goin to have all personality types, I believe it's how your organization conducts itself and provides guidance.
The failure is really from the call at base that only suggested to stay put. I believe they are at fault, they know how many missions he flew, is now over extended, hiked, and allowed the pilot to take a fourth mission.
To place all the blame on the pilot... there's a reason why you have to request special VFR and it's not suggested to pilots. The base made a suggestion it's now their responsibility
Yes. But some people are bad at "do nothing" as the best solution.
I've made those calls, spent the night in the desert under an emergency blanket, waiting for sunlight.
But some people really have a hard time to let go, and not act.
As a former military guy, the pilot should have known that although the goal of missions never change, the timetable for missions quite often do..
Yea I was a back seater. (Flight medic) Seems like they didn’t have the equipment, training or manpower to complete this mission.
Any kind of rescue personnel knows that you don’t put yourself at risk even if it’s to save another life, that’s the reason why ambulances go the speed limit and you put your mask first in the airplane and other stuff like that
@@santiagoqr1 that's false lol. Every professional first responder knows there is risk on every call, and it is their job to determine the level of risk and make a decision based on many factors such as potential gain, policy, ethics, etc.
He did know, but that wasn't the issue. The issue was the human factor.
He did it for the money..$400 an hour is hard to pass up.
Megumi Yamamoto, a University of New Mexico physics graduate student from Tokyo, was also confirmed dead earlier Thursday after rescuers reached the bodies.The only other person aboard, state police officer Wesley Cox, sustained serious leg injuries but managed to reach safety Wednesday.Rescue efforts had been hampered by snow, low clouds and wind Wednesday. But the weather broke Thursday, allowing Black Hawk helicopters to airlift searchers as close as they could to the wreckage to look for Yamamoto and Tingwall.Just before smashing into the mountain Tuesday night, the sleek police copter, designed for just such high-altitude rescue missions, picked up Yamamoto after she become stranded while hiking.Cox's right leg was crushed, his back injured. Soon, hypothermia set in. He hunkered down for the night inside the downed chopper with his pilot within earshot. Through the night, Tingwall and Cox alternately called out to each other.When daybreak came Wednesday, Cox, badly injured and uncertain where Tingwall was, decided he needed to hike out for help, broken bones and all. He walked less than a mile
Had no idea the pilot was not killed instantly. Hearing each other call out in the night must've been torment.
Rest in peace. Hope Officer Cox healed 100%.
You should not be admitted into grad school if your english is that bad
@@mortalclown3812sounds comforting to me. Who would want to be alone in such circumstances?
These videos are so awesome. It´s one of the things that make internet worthwhile. We all tend to judge the pilot "why did he take off?". It´s so obvious AFTER it happens and when we are away from the problem and situation. So, that final statement "instead of shaking you head you may think "what would lead me to that kind of decision"... whow that was right on the spot. If you are an aviator you certainly, at some point, bent your safety a little due to a factor or another. That kind of reflection is really good.
Analyze this specific incident again.
The only conclusion is the pilot was one of the dumbest dirtbags ever to get a pilot’s license.
And he had a safe alternative!!!!
And he killed two people.
Most vfr pilots who find themselves in ifr don’t have a perfectly safe alternative. Our “hero” did.
Shaking my head over his stupidity. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I had one of those "high-speed type" pilots in my squadron. I also was relieved from my duties as operations manager and he happily took my place. Now he is dead, his body was never fully recovered, and I'm still alive and flying. Yeah, he had a risky personality. But the real problem is in the organization. An organization which destroys the careers of smart and prudent pilots while rewards the less judicious and riskier pilots, is looking for a disaster. And somebody in the organization should pay for it. This never happens, and the same errors occur again and again. I would like the video had talked about this.
Now he is become death.
he "is death"?
@@windowsxseven guess so.. Great contribution, btw 👍
@@OmmerSyssel Says the guy whose name is really just two letters - L R. Left right. Cause that's the only words you're gonna say when I'm doing your mom
Very good contribution. I feel angry at organisations who reward risk takers and make a cautious and situationally aware person feel pressured into doing something they both know is dangerous. At the end of the day, the hiker wasn’t rescued at all, a helicopter was destroyed, the pilot killed and the policeman badly injured. I can see why he felt obliged to help in the search, but if he was only qualified for VFR then he shouldn’t have flown after sunset. Nobody would have thought badly of him. He could have stayed in the helicopter until the morning - if anyone wanted them moved before that, then they needed to work out rescuing the 3 of them.
Incidentally, why didn’t the policeman help with the rescue instead of staying in the helicopter? He could have helped to carry the woman up the mountain which must have been a strenuous task for one man.
The first thing you’re taught in EMS is that a dead rescuer rescues no one. It’s a reminder to think it through and not be a hero. I’ve taken that through life with me and have used that saying in many situations that have nothing to do with EMS. It makes me stop and think about what I’m about to do and the consequences of it.
The first thing we always said in class
“The scene...is safe”
If we are called, there’s already a problem. There was nobody else available, so we show up. If we go down, now you need TWO MORE crews, one for us, and one for the original call. Same thing with EVOC, if we wreck on the way to a wreck, now we have twice the problems, and half the solving.
Same with search in rescue in the backcountry, or mountains. Don't be part of the rescue.
@@jaysmith1408 Same thing with search and rescue. There's a saying taken from firefighters, "there's no such thing as a 'routine' rescue (fire)."
Good motto.
In wilderness travel, including sea kayaking, we call this type of error a "failure to back off the plan". It's a very common cause of close calls and fatalities. The fact that this type of accident is so common illustrates the fact that we're hard-wired to push on in the face of obstacles. Once the mission or expedition or trip is defined, it's easy to keep on pushing. That isn't a bad thing, but in situations where pausing and reevaluating the situation is required, it can lead to disaster.
Seems if anything.. Dropping the spotter and leaving. The spotter could direct ground crew to the location and provide food water and thermal mylar blankets.
I lived in New Mexico over 20 years and its so true how quickly the weather changes. Especially in the Santa Fe and Gila Mountains.
As an old Army Warrant Officer once told me, “fly stupid, die stupid.”
Unfortunately, he killed himself and the person they were supposed to be rescuing. Amazing that the spotter survived the crash. Also have to wonder if the spotter told the pilot about the recommendation to shelter in place, or just left it unspoken.
You got to wonder what input the rescued hiker had, if she felt they should stay, or go. Sad outcome for what was prob a "target fixation" mindset
Reminds me of Nevada Barr. She wrote fiction in which people take off into difficult terrain and have trouble where it is almost impossible to send out rescue teams. Four Corners. As I read, I thought "Are there really idiots who do this to the Park Service?" But nothing is too stupid for some human beings. Hey, hikers. You got this one life. Throw it away if it means so little to you.
As a helicopter pilot, a big problem I’ve seen is letting emotions and personality get in the way of safety and unnecessary risks are taken. Pushing VFR minima, fuel, a little faster, a little further a little longer etc..
What would Animal Chin have done though?
No, there is no sane reason to take a risk with those high winds at that altitude in the dark with only VFR rating. I don't give a shit what the pilot "wanted" to do. He was a stupid ass that wanted to be a fucking hero.
@@randymaatta8824 And he had a perfectly safe alternative. Pilots who find themselves in ifr conditions made a bad decision, but they didn’t choose to fly into ifr ahead of time.
Stop bragging about yourself, the video is nothing to do with you 🙄🙄
@@AwesomeAngryBiker not sure where I was bragging but you can show everyone one the doll where you were hurt.
I've backpacked to lake Katherine and have watched a wall of rain and wind an hail come across the lake right before taking shelter. My first thoughts after he got back from carrying a human uphill off trail in that weather surely would be to embrace that shelter till the storm passed. I'm not a pilot but I can't imagine taking off in weather that severe.
Another terrific video. Educational for pilots and non-pilots (like me) alike.
A tragic loss, condolences to the families of the souls lost. Great vid ASI.
I’m super grateful for this channel..
This is so sad. The pilot made a horrible judgement, and the one he was meant to rescue paid for it. It was noble of him to want to rescue the hiker before nightfall, but then they should have stayed put until the weather got better.
Yes, they should have stayed put in the clearing after picking up the hiker -- they would all have been safe there.
Why did she need rescuing. Injury? See, I'm not a fan of "hiking" at all. But if I ever chose to do this thing, it would not lead me to any remote area. So easy to twist a joint and become lame.
@@JimMork, cold. It was wet and snowing. She was not prepared for staying there overnight.
I appreciate the hell out of these! Most organizations sound preachy and dumb but when a flick of a switch or slight oversight for a fraction of a second can kill you.....its very sobering to learn from the deaths of fellow pilots.
I hope this gets used for training for all search and rescue pilots, particularly those in the mountains.
Hopefully camping out in the chopper until conditions improve will be taught and encouraged.
Does sound like a good idea.
I want to add I don't mean this as a slight against the pilot.
He sounds like a great man, someone who represents the best of what we can strive to be.
One night while tired, most likely exhausted and low on oxygen he made a mistake.
I am not so holy to claim I have never made a mistake.
I don't operate a helicopter but I have made my share of mistakes behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.
I try to learn from each and never repeat them.
But for the grace of God go I.
Just a heartbreaking case any way you look at it.
The fact that the severely injured police spotter survived the night brings up that the original call to refuse the mission may well have been the correct one.
Hopefully this case is studied and lessons are learned.
@@1978garfield Sad reality. Warriors don't quit battles.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but wouldn’t a better decision have been to keep warm inside the helicopter for the night, and only fly it when the weather calmed in the morning?
Or if you have to fly, climb out of the clouds while keeping the helicopter level, once you start seeing where you're going THEN start moving towards the landing site.
@@michaelbuckers The Agusta A109E Power has a service ceiling of 15,000 feet.
In bad weather conditions with turbulent air and peaks around at 13,000 feet you would be right on the limits of the helicopter.
Also, good luck flying above the clouds when you are already at your limits.
You never HAVE to fly. In this case, the only time to fly would be in VFR and calm weather, regardless of IFR rating. Neither of which were the case.
almost certainly.
1000%.
As a military-trained, NVG qualified, and IFR certified pilot I wouldn't have departed that mountain top either unless the hiker's condition required immediate medical care I couldn't provide. But I am also instrument certified and would have climbed up and away, yes through the clouds, to a safe altitude and asked ATC for radar vectors for an instrument approach back to Santa Fe. Easy. I'm always surprised when law enforcement hires pilots who are police officers first and gives them just the basics of flight training and certification rather than hire seasoned pilots, such as military veterans and give them the basics of law enforcement. Aviation is the higher standard. Learning how to chase bad guys is just a variation of military training.
Wow, you sir are a pompous ass. I can let the comment about policing just being a variation of military training go because a lot of soldiers think civilian police are stooges. But when rolling out all your credentials and criticism, I didn't see where you slipped in a dime's worth of sympathy for a guy who was at least trying to save another life. Usually when I speak to someone in the military I thank them for their service. No need to thank you, I'm sure you do that every time you pass a mirror.
I'm sorry Racinzilla. Didn't know ErikT was your mother.
ccso414 Proceeds even farther to be an, "Ass."
I sometimes wonder if you people have the slightest bit of self-awareness... And never bad mouth my mother, ErikT. She-He deezurvs yer rispekt!
Erik T Couldn’t Agree more. Flown in those mountains a bunch on OAS/FS contracts. ATP CFI-I, A&P and ANVIS IP here. Should have called in location and 180 Out. They were in over their heads before it started. A lot of that mindset (Police/Fire first, then pilot) all over the country. Sadly it continues.....
Erik T please email me when you can I am interested in learning about S.A.R and aerophlix@gmail.com
I fly in Europe. The first rule of a EMS or S&R is not to increase the number of dead or injured. If you’re not 100 pct sure that you can do the victim a service, don’t. If the hiker was not critical, then no need to endanger her life anymore than she already had. You’re not going to get fired for saving three lives and a ship.
That's the first rule in the US too. Being a cop rather than EMS or S&R probably had a lot to do with this. Different mindset.
@@carey-gregory & DDT Absolutely: I think that was the problem here.
The guy thought he was OK to fly west to better weather & visibility.
Sad decision. RIP.
So even if you're 98% sure you can help, you shouldn't help.
@@SamSpade2010 if you are 98% sure you're not a helicopter pilot. its either black or its white. any shade of gray is not for piloting helicopters.
98 pct?
you don't motor the turbines.
any pilot will tell you.
its already potentially risky at 100 why add another 2 pct?
helicopters are complex and unstable machines and disasters are always a chain of events that maybe started few days before
@@ddtddt8493 The essence of risk is that it's *not* black and white. Risk is uncertainty.
I've been watching hours of these, and it's nice to get a survivor for once!
These videos are chilling, "Choose poorly, and all is lost..."
The desire to be the hero who accomplished what others might not attempt is an insidious motivation to take risks.
Exactly what I thought. Sleeping in the helicopter overnight though wouldn't have changed that though and would've even made for a more heroic rescue. You never know if he simply wanted to be home for the night rather than possibly wasting a day off work returning the next morning, or whatever his personal situation. Tragic story though.
Not being funny, but isn’t that kinda an important characteristic for a cop?
If there were no rescuers that took risks, nobody would ever be rescued. It’s all about calculated risk. His bravery and sheer determination does not make him a poor pilot. However, for what ever reason, he didn’t seem to accurately reassess the situation for the calculated risk AFTER the hiker was secure inside the helo.
@@lauran3244
This is not about cops. But if it were, I’d vote no. Cops are heroes sometimes, of course, but mostly they are about power, not heroism.
We weren’t there, our opinion on motivation is irrelevant and there’s nothing to learn from it. I appreciate those who try for those who can’t.
Not a pilot , but I still enoy watching this videos , they are really educational
This type of scenario was very prevalent when I worked in EMS as a helicopter pilot 🚁. Unfortunately, I read many NTSB reports of cohorts doing this very thing. And when you have some management types that promote risky behavior, it won't be long until your company will experience the same outcome. 😭
This channel is incredibly well done. I sincerely thank the TH-cam algorithm for brining me here! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Santa Fe baldy is a tough hike but with a well defined path. Hikers could have gotten to her in two hours.
We all need these constant reminders. We face circumstances where rushed decisions could lead to disaster on a regular basis. Be safe everyone.
Making the go/no go decision is much harder when someone's life is on the line, but they had a well built ready-made shelter right there. Why not sit tight and spend the night on the mountain in the helicopter?
Any pilot that has a hard time making go-no-go decisions based on whether someone's life is on the line needs to get out of the cockpit and into another line of work before they kill someone. Aviation has worked long and hard to get the pilot's head away from the military's "complete the mission" mindset to "can the flight be completed safely"
It took years to detach the pilot's decision as to whether to accept a flight or not was based on flight safety criteria and not on the old "the baby will die if you don't go" criteria of early HEMS days.
This particular accident was doomed from the start and blame starts at the top trickling down to the lowest level. The flight department needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from the top down.
@@snakechrmr6398 When someone's life on the line you must always make an attempt. But it doesn't mean you have to push it until you die too. Call it quits if it gets far too dangerous, losing one person is better than losing one person plus an experienced pilot plus an extremely expensive aircraft.
Wait wait wait....a rescue pilot that's not instrument rated?
CorollaNut68 n
Right? You gotta be instrument rated and current for like 75% of jobs these days. Even ENG pilots needs IFR ratings for insurance reasons.
reverse thrust yeah, when I started flying in 06 it was preferred, not required but now it seems most places demand Instrument rating, especially medevac.
ghey
@M Detlef - But is he IFR rated?
Just the fact that a non-IFR pilot took off in IMC was a clear violation of FARs.
I'm aware I don't know anything about the subject, but I need to ask, why not get IFR training if you're supposed to be ready to launch anytime in any weather?
Maybe this guy was in the process of it or something?
Good point! A rescue pilot should be skilled in instrument flying as well as night flying!
Dennis Kitainik If the conditions are IFR it likely means you shouldn't be flying in it regardless of your IFR endorsement.
Noogs Isn't the VERY POINT of an IFR rating to allow a pilot to fly in IFR conditions? What a moronic statement!
Dennis Kitainik You aren't a pilot are you? Typical IFR conditions are conditions that most pilots avoid. Just because you can fly in the clouds doesn't mean you should. It's your kind of thinking that gets pilots killed. Nice try though.
Noogs YOU are obviously not a pilot -- commercial pilots fly in the clouds all the time! Had everyone been following your way of thinking, we'd have delayed and cancelled flights ALL the time, and nobody would get to their destination on time!
Great video! Great lesson for all of us, even though I’m not a pilot. Thanks!
I'm not a pilot. I couldn't possibly comment on flying actions, but I could comment on steps that I might have taken in his position.
1. If everyone was in relatively safe medical condition, and there was no rush to leave - that might have impacted on my decision.
2. The helicopter as mentioned, would have provided adequate shelter for the night for all three occupants. If there was water on board, and comfortable seating for 3 passengers, that's infinitely more acceptable than taking unnecessary risks. Wait it out until the morning, I'm reassess options. Perhaps, if it got very cold, occasionally idling engines during the night providing heat for the cabin might have been a solution as well.
3. He could have stopped just for a moment, and thought "I'm not IFR rated, so therefore flying in mountainous conditions at night, regardless of the want to get home, might be precipitous to a inevitable and holy preventable accident."
I don't know what went through his mind that night, or the conditions that he was flying in - but I know that sometimes the need to preserve life, whether in a car, helicopter or in a plane, should outweigh any other factors.
Yes, hindsight's a wonderful thing, and it's easy for me to state the fact after. Especially as a non pilot. But I do know, that sometimes, just stopping to think for a few seconds and running through your options is always a good idea.
RIP to those involved.
6:51 If the hiker couldn't walk half a mile up hill to the chopper are they really in that good of a condition?
everyone knows a girl who skinned her knee and is cold can't be expected to aid in her own rescue /s
@@LtRiot *Triggered Feminist entered chat*
A sad ending to a brave rescue attempt.
I am not a pilot of any description but it seems to me that this whole situation began with a hiker in mountainous terrain without sufficient bad weather clothing / emergency kit to survive the conditions.
RIP.
localbod So it’s the hikers fault? What about the trained professionals who get paid to think about these scenarios 8 hours a day?
So blame the hiker in other words... this channel is not about hiking training, it is about pilot training.
I always carry an emergency blanket.
Both for visibility in an emergency, and to have an option to wait out unsafe alternatives if needed.
I have used it twice in my life. I would have survived without it, probably, but this made it a relatively comfortable option.
Sometimes just sit tight and do not act is the best option. I have friends who find that really hard.
But I have also taken decisions to just stop a car at the side of the road and wait out bad weather or other circumstances.
How we miss them retired Vietnam vets trained chopper pilot's. Best I ever seen. Ones made it home sure had the experience.
I think the mission oriented mindset is the correct mindset for helicopter search and rescue, given that had the pilot not flown the mission the hiker would likely have died of hypothermia. The only real error here was that the pilot seemingly forgot that the mission is to save the hiker, not kill her by hitting a mountain. Camping in the aircraft over night would have prevented that outcome and still completed the mission.
Been Into avionics since the 90s when I attended an airshow and saw the mighty f14, the harrier , the eagle and the blue angels.
I've never piloted a plane and suspect I never will. However despite that knowledge I am very intrigued by these videos and have a good understanding of essentially all the slang and procedure and must say I really appreciate the effort and educational aspects these videos offer.
I should also mention IM an island boyyyy
Good you found the hiker. Now just sit and wait for the conditions to improve.
This is an amazing lesson for every realm of the human experience. How our personalities can cause us to err greatly in anything. Air flight being perhaps the most unforgiving of these errors.
He should have stayed in the chopper.
After all. camping out in a helicopter seems like fun! :D
Learn some Japanese in the meantime, too! ;-)
Gung-Ho Stooge... probably on Steroids
Not with that girl...
I camped out in a helicopter many times in the Army. While my situation was better than sleeping in a small tent on the ground in the rain I was in better conditions than the infantry BUT, I can assure you it was no fun.
@@snakechrmr6398 Only because your crew didn't know how to play sheepshead. ;-)
Well, I fly both fixed and rotor wing, I am also, instrument rated in both. There is a couple of problems, first of which there is really very few instruments certified and equipped helicopters on the civil side of things. Single Pilot IFR in a helicopter can be done if so equipped and you are trained and current and very proficient at instrument flying. Night in the Mountains, with Snow, and Icing conditions in the clouds, better to just sit it out, I done that more that a few times in my 42 years of flying. Keeping a sleeping bag or two in the aircraft and something to eat along with a couple of blankets. that stuff don't weigh much. It's a high price to pay. I don't know what the internal politics within that aviation unit were or are or the other pressures that was on the pilot. I been there, one of the hardest things I had to learn was to say No, and saying no aways came with a price, mostly being fired on the spot. No job is worth the price this fellow and that lady paid.
+George Semel Being an S&R helicopter I would expect them to be carrying several drop bags of basic survival supplies, as they can buy vital hours for ground teams to reach the persons in distress in the event that the conditions or environment preclude an actual landing. It makes sense to think about adding a survival bag in your own private aircraft too of course just that given the nature of this helicopters role it would have been shocking if that wasn't part of it's standard payload.
EGO
George: you're exactly right. Saying 'No' always comes with a price.
This is a great video for teaching people that find themselves in tricky situations, to not make it worse by refusing to change their original plans and course of action but instead always error on the side of safety even if it results in inconvenience, lost comfort or someone’s disapproval or unhappiness. This clearly is often not an easy thing to do. I learned my lesson and luckily got away with it, but at least I realized how it could have gone very wrong. I always listen to the advice of the most qualified person, take the safest course of action even if it means there will be a few unhappy, grumpy but very much ALIVE people in my group. You might get away with complacency once in awhile, but... you better smarten up eventually.
I worked in EMS and there is a hero factor that you must suppress. It's best to keep asking yourself "is the scene safe?" (or my next move).
I am wondering why a SAR pilot wouldn't be IFR qualified. Is it because flying in IMC is different from a fixed wing aircraft? I imagine that instrumentation differs since a fixed wing doesn't hover and the rotary craft is dealing with an additional axis that doesn't come into play quite as much in forward flight, but I don't know. Seems more challenging than fixed wing. Do helicopters have radio altimeters for IFR conditions?
The guy can only fly visual and decides to take off in poor weather by night.
My course of action: *"Hi, honey we're stuck here in the mountain because I can't see shit, we might even have to spend the night here but I'm not taking any chances, are the kinds in bed already?"*
+John Wilkinson Spot on, bud:)
I really am so lost on that, I've flown about 500 hours now at night and still to this day, if there's clouds or any weather at night especially high overcast and I'm gonna be flying VFR over a pitch black dark desert, screw the trip, not worth it. Not to mention the terrain isn't lit, highways are dark, maybe few headlights if you're lucky. Single engine? Helicopter? You're playing russian roulette now. Seriously, even with the mission mindset I don't understand why waiting it out inside the helicopter while the weather passed wasn't an option for him.
It was likely he was hypoxic, at 12,000 feet and after physical exertion. 12,000 feet is only 500 feet below where supplemental oxygen is required for unpressurised flights.
You are very right on that brilliant observation. No mention of this, in the video.
Even worse about this accident is that it might also have been prevented by simply getting a Japanese translator on the phone in a 3-way conference call.
Too bad for pilot Tingwall. I can hear the formerly relieved chief of pilots justifiably saying "I warned you guys about this".
An odd twist to this case is that the stranded woman had called 911 7 times and the call was redirected to the actual sheriff's office desk. Not 911 services. Very odd. Very sad.
How unfortunate. A good guy that made one bad decision.
Not really. He should have never left. He had a history of doing stupid shit.
Agree...
Why not just stay there waiting for VFR conditions?
Very sad outcome. I regularly walk and climb in remote places, I fell once and broke my ankle, but was rescued by a team who walked in with a stretcher, I would hate to think my rescue could cause the death of the rescuer.
These videos are amazing, well structured and very informative, and I only pilot a laptop.
I agree with the first comment.
It is easy to get in to the mindset that the hard part is done and that there is somehow a "safe zone" that radiates around your home base.
"I'll be fine, it's a short flight and have done it 100's of times"
I agree with others that hypoxia had set in and clouded his judgement.
Seems to me the pilot should have stayed with the plane and let the State Policeman go get the hiker.
The call to "stay put" or whatever came in while the pilot was getting the hiker.
We don't know if the Policeman relayed that to the pilot or not.
It is easy in hindsight for us all to say "He should have stayed on the mountain."
He made one bad decision and there is no record of anyone trying to stop him.
I assume there was radio contact made before taking off?
If so I wonder why no one pointed out "You are VFR rated and it is dark. Stay put."
Sad the hero pilot took off after a great rescue. Waiting for daylight would have been an operation success story.
He wasn’t legally allowed to fly that chopper when he did.
That poor hiker. She must have thought she was finally going to be safe.
"The previous chief pilot was relieved of his duties after refusing to send pilots on a high risk mission."It sounds like the person in upper management over the deceased pilot had the most poor judgment. I hope he got disciplined for his contribution to the accident.
This is a very important point. Culture has such a great influence on these types of decisions. It totally makes sense why he took the risk in light of this culture. Probably felt that he had no other choice.
probably why he did it he probably felt "if i dont do this there goes my job" s*** management strikes again
To play devil's advocate, they could have gotten flak from the public who accused them of ignoring victims in the past. People get fired all the time for making their department "look bad".
Mission mindset doesn't just kill pilots, it kills drivers and boat captains as well.
And divers
And their passengers.
And refinery workers, and electricians, and EOD specialists, and occasionally train engineers too!
It is always hard to make decisions in rescue operations. Taking risks kind of comes with the job, as you need to weigh them against saving someone's life. I bet most people do that job because they think it is the right thing to do and cannot really turn down mission if there is no one else to go and it is not clear it would be suicide.
Anyway I think that rescue pilot should have just one job only and that is flying. Others should be employed to carry out the rest of the rescue operation, because especially in rescue operations pilots need to risk and they better focus on their job and do not get distracted with other things or it can lead to disaster. IFR rating helps but IMC can be deadly even if you are rated.
This isn’t something you aren’t trained for.
He, more than anyone, should make great decisions.
He had a perfectly safe alternative. And he chose to fly into ifr conditions.
Let’s go over that again.
1. He chose to fly into ifr conditions. Non rated pilots end up in ifr conditions got there through a bad decision, but they didn’t decide to fly there. This clown did.
2. He had a perfectly safe alternative. Non rated pilots who find themselves in ifr conditions don’t.
He killed himself and Megumi, and SERIOUSLY injured his partner. How stupid can one be?
Any ideas why the spotter stayed in the aircraft while the pilot went?
Perhaps the pilot was the S&R expert??
You people do an outstanding job with these recreations. Graphics and explanations are awesome. That being said, after watching dozens of these, my only takeaway is pilot arrogance and ego- every time !
That can certainly be a factor, but I don't see arrogance or ego here. I see that mission hyperfocus they described. I also see a worldwide problem - the attitude of air rescue pilots, fed by us, that they are the only ones standing between someone in need and death. That's often the reality of it too. (That's why we have rescue pilots.) They feel a calling, a sense of duty to use their unusual skills, to take risks in order to save lives. It's hard for them to say no, and it's hard for us not to ask that of them. (If I had a daughter who was lost and freezing to death on a remote mountain, my perspective about rescue pilots taking risks would certainly be different.) It's a matter of the degree of risk and likelihood of success. We expect our soldiers, police, firefighters, and other rescue workers to take risks too. We honor people who answer those callings. Sometimes they find themselves on their own, and they don't get it right. They make bad mistakes, and people die. Humans do that. All we can do at that point is learn from them, but it seems a shame to write them off as arrogant or egotistical.
One solution, regardless of what drives that thinking (arrogance or something more noble), was proposed by the UK to the EU before Brexit - mandate two pilots on all air ambulance flights. They can act as a check on each other if one wants to take senseless risks. They can work as a team, which helps to combat fatigue and widens tunnel vision. Air ambulance and air mountain rescue operations are obviously different, but they both share that same vulnerability - the unchecked desire of a single pilot to save someone's life, and their willingness to operate at a higher level of risk to accomplish that goal. Just add a second pilot. They jointly assess the situation and share the risk. It'll cost more up front, but fewer dead pilots and rescuees and fewer bent aircraft would probably offset that.
@@beenaplumber8379 Ego and arrogance every time. Fact.
@@tyroniousyrownshoolacez2347 Ego and arrogance can be demonstrated by referring to your own opinion as fact. It's ok for you to stick to your opinion, but it will by no means make your opinion rational. I've done a fair bit of reading and research on this topic, particularly involving two air ambulance crashes in the UK, and if you write off such complex tragedies with such a simplistic response, you're only inviting more of the same tragedies. Pilots are people, and they will act as people predictably act. That's what human factors analysis is all about, and it an extremely important component in any air crash investigation. Our goal should not be assigning blame, but saving lives, and there are lessons we can learn from tragedies like this that WILL save lives. I am grateful that those responsible for such investigations appreciate the importance of human factors analysis. You are of course free to disagree. Your ignorance in this area won't endanger anyone.
why was the pilot sent on the 1 mile hike to get the hiker instead of the police spotter?!
Someone else pointed out already that it was probably the "hero mindset." He wasn't sent, he did that of his own free will.
Yeah, that is what I do not understand either. The pilot clearly wanted to help, and I can kind of see why. However this is exactly the situation where the pilot should stay in the aircraft and plan safe way home and ponder how bad weather is bad enough for him to stay. And he needs to keep all his energy for the safe flight back, because during flight no one else will fly the helicopter. Pilot has to focus on piloting during search of rescue, because well, when saving someone else's life usually goes against the safety of the crew and the pilot need to make the right calls how much risk is worth continuing the mission. When the pilot is tired and exhausted it is more than likely it will lead to poor judgement and disaster.
I'm betting that the spotter was a fat cop. Too fat to hike.
That is odd - agreed.
TC Fenstermaker a lot of this makes zero sense. Of course I have the benefit of hindsight
A rescue Chopper has blankets, Meds, water and food packages stored in it. He should have stayed the night..So sad.
"Along the way there are any number of places to rethink things, modify the plan, turn around - wait long enough though, and there eventually comes a point of no return - choose poorly then and all is lost." - @11:05
Is there a reason that the pilot and his passengers couldn't have just taken shelter overnight in the helicopter and fly home the next morning?
Nope, there is not a reason.
There was no risk to the hiker. Hiker was tired, a bit cold but very lost. No medical emergency. And the helicopter should have some first aid anyway.
I think it was much safer to stay in the helicopter until daylight. The pilot was only VFR certified. He isn't legally allowed to fly at night. He was already worried about the wind and needing a second rescue.
I think after fetching the hiker he got hypoxia. If the police spotter only knew anything about pilots and hypoxia, he/she would have stopped the pilot. A person who's afflicted by hypoxia cannot think properly and the brain defaults to it's last instructions. The person will appear normal with a bit of slow response and zombie type of movements. You can still talk to them they'll just look a bit dazed. The spotter probably deferred to the judgment of the hypoxic pilot who couldn't process the situation and decided to use his default decision of flying out despite the risks.
When you see symptoms of a hypoxic pilot, you must take action. They cannot make decisions and will fly themselves to death.
Wait, it is requested that the pilot also goes out his chopper and go physically search and take the hiker ? IS he alone in this kind of missions ? What set of rules approve this kind of shady ops ?
This video is very well done and the point is very well taken...I am a GA pilot. As an aside question, with a gas turbine powered helicopter why did he not just go to 15000 feet? In other words isn't Vx = 0? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
No, at THIS altitude, V(x) is DEFINITELY =/= 0, even in a chopper! (See "service ceiling for hover out of ground effect"!)
The strangest thing in that case (maybe apart from lacking IFR training) is why the heck the pilot was the person to do all the job. Even in normal weather conditions at lower altitude, you wouldn't have been able to think clearly. In other episodes, you seem to repeat that pilots must be concentrated on their job even while in toilet taking s^%^ so am I missing something or there was some lack of procedures or they just cut corners on expenses not hiring a rescuer.
Such an uneasy feeling as the video keeps going
So many accidents of VFR pilots flying into IMC. As far as I'm concerned, every single pilot should recieve mandatory IFR training. I don't understand why VFR licences are still a thing.
VFR at night in the mountains is recipe for disaster! They should have camped out overnight inside the helicopter.
In the list at 9:33 what does "soud running" mean ?
Wow. He made some initial errors, but should have realized he was in over his head and waited out the night on the ridge. The irony is that the hiker would (obviously) have had a better chance riding out the storm on her own.
ehhh depends on the conditions
its a cliche that pilots use that "takeoffs are optional, landings are mandatory". such a shame!
I am IFR rated in fixed wing but VFR only in rotorcraft. I was suprised that this pilot was not IFR rated. I remember reading that most pilots hand flying a helicopter that went into instrument conditions would lose control in about 8 seconds. Obviously a good autopilot might get a VFR pilot out of a jam. The conditions this pilot tried to fly in were not condusive to any type of flight even if he was instrument rated. Was this get homeitis? So close yet so far. I wonder if they had the capability of turning on the engine to generate some heat and survive the night. Did they have equipment to survive without engine heat? Very sad story as are most of these videos.
When lost in the woods: Uphill to get line-of-sight to a cell tower. Downhill to a road if there isn't one on the ridge line.
Stay where you are and start a fire.If you get too cold, your fingers/hands won't work properly and you will not be able to start one.
Downhill to water
Downhill to city
Downhill to warmth
how did she get separated from partner in the first place?
Thanks for this contribution to flight safety. Amaizing
This is so true. Just like in the military, you have to complete your mission no matter how suicidal it is.
More unnecessary blackout. Pilot Sgt. Andy Tingwall and hiker Megumi Yamamoto, 26, were killed. The police spotter, Wesley Cox, was injured.
Pretty astonishing that the pilot would get out and go search for the girl while the spotter remains behind. Potential for so many complications from him leaving besides being exhausted. I didn't think they'd actually do that beyond going more than a few feet away let alone searching a mountain slope in the dark for over an hour. What would happen if he couldn't make it back, that would make 3 people who need rescue.
Fired for refusing to send pilots into a high risk mission??
That’s unbelievable...
Probably a little more to the story...
Very sad. This brings to mind something often said in skydiving but which is apropos in aviation as well (I'll replace the word skydivers with pilots): There are old pilots, and then there are bold pilots. But there are no old bold pilots.
ChristianSky what does your statement mean
No instrument rating? Pickings must have been slim.
An excellent precis! Don't be a hero being a hero!
Comments here mostly miss the point. Yes, we all know he shouldn't have taken off; it was a lapse in judgement. But he didn't really decide to take-off -- it was just the next step in the mission. The lesson is that you should always consider an alternative to 'the next step' in 'the mission' when things have become more dangerous than you anticipated. Make an active decision.
Always have a plan B.
I always carry an emergency blanket, just to give me a plan B.
I have used it twice in my life.
How is a search and rescue pilot not ifr certified?
I wonder what the pilot whom was fired for not taking risks thought when they heard about this
Dumb Cop Egos...
Vindicated.
I’m completely confused here.
A rescue pilot who is not IFR rated? But he was trained to use night vision glasses while piloting? What am I missing here? Is this common?
Why not wait out the wx/night in the chopper on the ground?
What a shame. He could have sheltered for the night, the APU run up intermittently through the night would have kept them warm enough. Damn shame.
Too bad the spotter didn’t talk some sense into him. I understand though, cold, tired, has a pitiful hiker girl he carried, 15 min from a warm shelter. You don’t PLAN on dying, you never see it coming.
It's a tough decision, when you think you're close.
I have found that it helps, if you are prepared for plan B.
I always carry a safety blanket with me. I've used it twice.
Not in life-or-death situations, but it made it much easier to make the decision to just stop and wait for dawn.
Why did the spotter allow him to take off, he was just told to shelter in the helicopter
Failure of Crew Resource Management. Another mission error that wasn't mentioned in the video. It is REALLY easy to make incremental small errors that lead up to an accident like this.
I have lost friends in this fashion. Breaking the chain of errors can save lives.
"Mission Mindset" seems to be a frequent contributor to crashes!
My thinking was that if you feel like you can get there but darkness and risky weather are closing in then just take a survival kit- sleeping bag, fire starter, food, hand warmers, signal flares and such and drop them for the hiker. That way the hiker is secure and then she could be recovered the next day. That's what they've done for downed military pilots who couldn't be extracted right away and it seems like it would have been a no-brainer for this scenario.
A survival kit should be a permanent part of any rescue aircraft's equipment -- simple as that!
The previous pilot was relieved of duty for refusing a mission that he felt was too risky. The commander who relieved that pilot of duty is partly responsible for this tragedy.
Rescue pilots, like politicians, should follow their truth. Job and reelection be damned. Don't let your paycheck cloud your judgment. If you work for an outfit that compromised pilots, blow the whistle on them. You can always get a new job, possibly as a commander. Especially when this commander loses his job, as he should for pressuring pilots to press on beyond the capabilities of the equipment and pilot skill and qualifications.
In situations like this, an 'I-told-you-so moment' is almost guaranteed.
Cant you run the turbine w/o spinning the rotors? Heater?
I don't think so, the heat usually runs off of bleed air from the engine's compressor section, and the 'sprague clutch' will allow the rotor to turn while the engine does not, but not the other way around.
fadedflage thanks for the info... i did not know
@@fadedflage Isn't there a way to manually disengage the clutch?
What an incredible channel.
Question from a non pilot: Could they not have spent the night in the helicopter and tried to leave in the morning? Does a helicopter have to be tied/secured down in such high winds?
Pre-planning and pre-written protocols are very important for air SAR and other rescues. You need to have protocols in place, and the crews need to be familiar with them, and be willing to follow them, such as "If the visibility and or weather conditions are X and proper equipment is not onboard, then the crew shall remain in place until more favorable conditions arise." When decisions are affected by emotion than having rules and standards to fall back on is the answer. Cowboys are for westerns and heroes are for deli orders. We want to help others, and we do, but if difference between a dead hiker and a dead hiker and a dead crew, you know what the answer is.