Dota 2 But Every Ability Is Special
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Petition for Baumi to never stop playing this game mod until we see every hero's abilities
I usually agree with baumi but i do think that buy back is a good thing. What he said was if your carry die in the late game you should lose, and that doesnt feel good. Thats the main issue why i dont play Lol or ML anymore. Its because when you die or your teamates die you usually lose instantly after. Which doesnt really feel nice, but with buy back it feels like you did something and lost because you died again, and if you managed to defend it " at what cost? Thousands of gold and buy backs long cooldown ". Teams does usually stall right after depending but strategy and the opposing team should pressure more and counter that.
Thats teamgame. Fault of one is fault of entire team. In lol if carry is the only person doing any damage then team will loose anyway- its not hypercarry+4 peelers game anymore
Do you enjoy games where a teammate that you dont know, plays badly and its toooooooo big of a deal. Especially on a 30+ mins game?
Agree. so if your team dies once then you lose. no comeback no second chance. that's just plain stupid. BB is what makes DOTA unique.
What I love about buy back is that it forces people to be more aware of their spendings, players have to decide whether it is better to risk it and cash out on that big item they've been saving or to keep the money for bb just in case things go horribly wrong
It's just another cute strategic factor of the game
DotA2 but pango ult gives him all 7 chaos emeralds
"Oh, he is trying to die"
That's one of the saddest things I've ever heard
Buyback allows you to take risks. Without it, anything even slightly unsafe would be out of the question since death means instalose.
I actually believe that buyback is very healthy for the game. I play both LoL and Dota 2 a lot and in league I feel like after your carry dies everyone just gives up and the game ends, no one actually tries to make a comeback. In Dota I feel that buyback helps make hope for your team that allows you to win. Don’t have to agree, this is just why I believe buyback is good for the game :)
Plus: If your carry uses a buyback that takes a lot of his gold and makes it to where he won’t be able to get another item as quickly, I feel that while you were saying it you made it seem as if buyback was free
A Juicy Tree same here
BB is what keeps a single pick from ending the game
I think he might be referring to super late game when everyone has all their items and they are just saving for BB. I do still think its a good idea though because without it I feel like carries would play too safe and never make big plays.
buyback can't be removed while smoke and ward stock limit exists.
In dota, you can't avoid some death even though you play perfectly just because your vision is not perfect.
and that single unavoidable death costs game if there is no buyback.
@@LittleDanny9899 'smoke' and 'ward stock limit'
english is hard
Danny at which point Dota becomes league
Because that is a real problem there
It’s one of the main reasons I left league
Danny buyback so that when your support gets randomly fivemanned you don’t immediately lose the game
The wards in lol suck ass, they do nothing, the only upside is that they are free for the support
The jungle respawns individually every 2 min and 40seconds so if you fall behind in the jungle and get counter jungle there is no comeback mechanic
The balance is so messed up that a support team was suddenly the best jungler top and mid laner
They broke marksman last year and they still are being smacked on by mages that can’t deal with the Assassins that overkill you by about 700dmg at lvl6
Smoke is also nice as is the runes and frankly it is much easier to play as a team with open coms. Bottom we mustn’t become lol
@@LittleDanny9899 >if you play in a group its nearly impossible to die
>what is enigma or void or magnus?
Baumi: I need to stop using march
Also Baumi 1 sec later: Let me use march real quick
The duality of a man
If there was no buyback then people would be even more scared to leave their base late game cuz they know if they die it's game over.
My solution would be to make buyback be out of stock for the fisrt 45 minutes of the game- to reward those that can finish (or try to finish) the game earlier than late/super lategame
@@markotuna Nonono... wtf? Look at the most epic games - most of them are much longer. Dont reward teams for quick games, quick games are boring.
That is what we want. If you are good enough you know when to get in. Good people won't be feared.
@@IngEyn That's what you weak shit noob wants. Buyback is something good and unique for dota. If buyback doesn't exist then every dota game will just be like LoL, doesn't fucking make sense
Remember when you had infinite buybacks
Honestly if normal tinker had that ult i wouldnt have to feel dirty playing him
but you don't feel dirty playing the normal tinker so you ?
If u remove buyback, camping highground would be the only way to win.
Army should be soo good in mid farming. Straight line farm
It's.. not for free. Assuming you haven't played the game to a full 6 slots, you have to spend money to buy back. it's not free at all lmao.. It's also on like a 10 minute cool down. I think buybacks are just another form of counter play in a way.
I would personally keep buyback in the game since it prevents teams from playing less lame/campy. This is because if one person gets caught, then the game is likely over. The problem with buyback is that if one team wins a fight, then they lose their fighting advantage if the other team all buys back. I think this can be fixed by making so only 1 hero can buy back at a time. In other words, have a cooldown between buybacks for each team.
Thats a good suggestion. I think you're right about the game being more campy if there was no bb since everyone would play scared all the time
At which point we become league
>then they lose their fighting advantage if the other team all buys back.
So what? The other team is set back on what? 10k gold? and if the winning team gets a pick off in the next 5 minutes they've won.
@@nick7072 Depends on the situation. Say you initiated on them and used all of your initiating spells, usually ultimates, and now they have a long cooldown. Now you cannot fight, while the other team, who got obliterated early because of a good initiation, have not used all of their ultimates. They buyback, and if you do not back up, they will initiate on you, while you cannot really do anything because all of your game-changing skills are on cooldown. So the team who initiated first _do_ lose their fighting advantage.
@@figofernandogunawan6818 sorry but no
Baumi podcast is why I click your videos, your rants are 10/10 content 😂
You have a one sided perspective on buyback argument that it feels like you didnt consider the counter arguments:
Buyback isn't a dumb button you press to undo your mistakes, it comes with its drawbacks. Whether you press it or not is a decision that might win or lose you the game. Thus it adds another layer of decision making(skill?) to the game.
When you are criticising buyback, it feels like you are comparing dota to some other game. I don't know if this statement is true but your arguments are mostly like hey this grenade throw velocity is bad design, no-one would put this into the game have they program it again. Can it be because everyone does it their own way? A game's different elements are balanced around each other and here is why buyback is not a standalone element.
There are other mobas and they are mostly on the fast side of the spectrum compared to dota. In dota, you can disengage almost every situation as a team if that is what was on your mind in the first place. You can literally defend forever with proper setup. It becomes a patience game at that point. So you gotta give people something to work with when they are planning a highground siege or roshan fight or whatever. If I fuck this one up, I will respawn 90 seconds later. They can end the game. Fuck Roshan. I don't need aegis. Lets throw some wards there and wait for them to make that mistake. Buyback comes to play in these scenarios which isn't that uncommon now that game is more focused on resource and map control. You want to have their ancient side of the jungle but if you lose that fight, they can instead take over your jungle and that mostly stays that way even with a buyback mechanic in place.
Removing buyback would be a dumb dumb mistake and it is not just about some ancient dota player tears and 15 years of attachment. I fucking suck at making bb decisions but I can see why it is there.
My writing is all over the place sorry. I would stay and format and proof read it but gotta go now.
Also I would generally not comment on your videos and instead go ahead and discuss your points with my inner gaming circle but gotta keep the channel alive. Keep up the good work my man.
Sceptical Throw issue is the way lower mmr people look at buyback :p like you said, buying back comes with its drawbacks, however it doesn’t undo your mistakes, once you buyback, then the enemy knows ‘if I kill this person the game is over’ and you suddenly have a target on your head, clearly bc they don’t see it that way or don’t realise there’s an 8 min cd they forget & don’t realise^
Only poor game designers or whatever thinks that BB should be removed. It is a comeback mechanic. So if you die then you just watch your team die? 8 min cd is a long cd, every second counts in dota every 1 second stun counts. And to think that there is an idea of 1 BB pero player per game, then that's just idiotic. The idea is totally one sided. So if you win 1 critical clash then you win because of the reason "Why was the carry caught out".
Also, did you forget the ultimate defense in upper bracket final of ti8? OG vs LGD game 3? Those are the conditions when buyback don't exist, and existing buyback don't even matter. LGD buyback on all 5 and they still lost, OG has no buyback and proceed to won the game. It all comes down to how you use your buyback. In pros, idk why but I think you forgot about this, but buyback must come with payback. Without payback, buyback is wasted and the enemy will take the advantage of that.
Oh and Dota 2 is not an easy game to play, so some leeway to turn the difficulty down a bit is not something big
Buyback is fine~ 8 minute cooldown, high prices, and added respawn time. If you wanna make it fairer just bring back the gold earning reducer.
Maybe buyback has a time debt cost. You bb as normal but you know have "owed time" which you can either clear by basically stunning yourself in fountain (in one go, no burning it off whenever you pop by the fountain), or have the leftover duration added to next respawn. (The duration is equal to death time saved on bb).
This allows you to make plays, but you'll either dieback and be out for much longer, or you can't make use of the turnaround because you need to clear the debt. Also you can't bb with existing debt.
Welp, buyback is a comeback mechanic. Did you see LoL championship and how unfun their games are? Like, I tried watching at skt vs whatever the enemy team is at 2017, when skt dynasty fall. And I, I just can't. I can't watch farmfest and 10 sec teamfight where 8 secs of that teamfight dedicated to losing team retreating. Where's the hype and fun on that?
What if rather than buyback, there was a mechanic where you can use 1 free revive per game per hero that would allow for those turning plays but keeps people from farming for buyback. Revive would become a strategic mechanic that players would have to choose the opportune moment to use.
A way to counter buyback
Grant some ability old Necro ult debuff on some execute abilities or some hero in their base kit
Like no buyback on axe and Necro ult.
anti mage agh partially counter buyback
Hell yeah, just finished the previous video and a new one come out
The marching robots are kinda cute actually.
Forcing an enemy buyback is a good thing cuz if their core heck even supps die and bb's you can just go RS then you will have an advantage especially the 3rd roshan kill because of refresher or an aghs, then you can win the game. Forcing a buyback means forcing them to play safer means more map control as they are afraid to take a risk. And BB's gives the core a mental burden forcing them to retreat instead of fighting a winnable fight. I've seen these mistakes in some games which forces their entire team to lose the clash because of the core retreating.
Having just 1 buyback sounds so good honestly. Whenever i play my games as pos 4 or 5 and try really hard to herd my team into actually being active and fighting and taking objectives, it never works cause most of the carry players i see are like "I see creep, I hit creep. I see hero, I go to jungle." For 40 mins straight. In the end their hero is fully farmed but our team is not because they have been creating so much space for an antimage that he should actually be an astronaut by now. If he comes in and participates in 1 good teamfight, it still doesn't matter because they keep buybacks and our carry spends money on his 2nd butterfly, they kill him and end the game.
That's awfully specific
Idea: BB costs twice as much, add a half-back button that has 1/3 of new buyback’s cost that halves spawn time.
buyback is one fo thsoe essential points in decision making in dota. as it can be used as turnarounds and saftey nets if you get caught out in some way, it can also be punished just as badly as it can save games. for instnace the example of" we just killed a guy wait it doesnt matter" instead of , "lets go back to farming" how about you activley search for him, kill him again via smoke or ordinary gank, then you guaruntee that they are dead for x amount of time AND have wasted their gold. often times i see the opposite in games, where my own team buybacks and then die back. all in all, i believe the meta and nature of dota has shifted with this in mind so taking it out would really effect certain strats and playstyles, pretty much coaxing the meta into the death ball era again. overall there could be a better way of creating incentive or risk/rewawrd for buy back like a higher gold bounty for killing them; but i think that its fine as it is.
Imo buy back can be a good mechanic if it was changed. Make it cheaper but not accessible right after you die(so you can't get back to the same teamfight right away and so your death actually makes your team weaker) but after say half of the time you are dead
sniper is really fun in this mode, active of 'Take Aim' ability allows him to have 69x attack range for one instance of attack, with a daedalus and 5 rapiers, you can get kills or 3-4 hit towers from base
also headshot has %4 chance to deal something like 1000 more damage.
There was a post regarding a rumoured item, "Greed" - Unlocks at 40 mins and what it does is permanently unlocks the 3 backpack slots and disables BB. Costs 4k. Any thoughts?
What do you mean by stall game? Most of the LoL games are over by 30minutes. Some came close to 50 but thats really rare. Dota2 is only moba I've played so far that have games so long. 40 minutes in dota? WHAT A QUICK MATCH! LoL had mechanic similar to buyback- it was summoners spell Revive. It was deleted FOR THE SAME REASON BAUMI BROUGHT UP! It simply wasn't healthy for the game! Imagine game where you need entire team to put down beefest tank to sleep. If you dont focus him he will slaughter your carry and nuker. And what he does after being defeated? HE REVIVES. WITH BONUS HP. Just simply delete buyback- just like Baumi said- its outdated
That is why there are counterpicks. Not many tanks in Dota 2 can easily obliterate your carry or nuker - it's the other way around. Also, what do you mean by "bonus hp"? Buyback gives you debuffs. Imo, one of the charms of playing Dota 2 is you feel satisfaction when you win that long game in which you worked hard to get that win. Quick games are, personally, boring to me.
i knew normal dota was too Good to be true
Buyback is ok, but it should be reworked (for CM only, it would be mess in pubs :D) - instead buyback tied to hero, it should be tied to team (like glyph or scan)... for example 3 charges with 10 minutes of recharge time and max 10 buybacks per team/game. It would cost no gold, but you really need to think who/when will buyback.
Edit: Or what could be fun, no recharge time... just 3 buybacks for team. BUT reset back to 3 buybacks (for both teams) when Roshan dies (or respawns, dunno what is better). So if you want to finish, you dont want enemy to have buyback, you just ignore Rosh - if you need buybacks you try to kill Rosh. Its easy to track enemy buybacks betwen Roshan kills and it forces teams to fight more.
You could have skilled march early, and if lined up proper, he could have farmed lane and woods at the same time. Also your rearm still rearms, so you can have out waay more than 2 of them.
And i agree on buyback. It just makes so you have to win a game twice in a row to actualy win it.
Some1 should make a dota butt instead of uphill miss there is a downhill miss as one of the features
I really don't like buyback either. Later in the game instead of getting your important extension items it turns into "save for buyback or lose". To me, it isn't fun to sit on several thousand gold that I'm not allowed to spend on important items. Winning teamfights when you've been at a disadvantage also don't feel like very much because the enemy is already rich at that point so you have to win 2 teamfights to get anything done and now your big stuff got spent in the first fight.
0:04 lycan skill but the howl "UwU"?? hmm interesting ^^
Only problem with buyback is that when team that has advantages is waiting for cd for their buyback so they have one when they die (happenes rarely in average games).
Everything else is OK and without buyback it would mean - no second chance, short games where when you die once it is gg because only you can do is watch your base die.
In other words without buyback it is worse than with buyback.
Dunno what this does, but just throwing out ideas. Maybe having like 3 buybacks shared between the team with a longer cd. So the entire team can't bb and the carries can't bb if the supports already have or vice versa. Just puts restrictions on it.
I think buyback is very healthy for the game
you know, i was thinking about it and 46 min late game without buybakcs could be better
also not sure
Yeah....this Tinker should be in the game. unlimited Laser seem annoying but still way more fun to fight than no cd tinker.
Baumi first 20 mins "i dont do buyback"
Baumi 50 mins later. spaming laser, died, BuyBack, easily kill venom
What about this for buyback..
8-10 mins cooldown, you can buyback only after 25% - 40% of you respawn time?
Dota 2 but baumi want dota to become lol
also on the loosing .... i was so happy to see the big update for underlords. until i realized its actually the best to go for loosing streak until round 15 and then win the game from there. because you can do that 80-90% of the time if you get just a bit of good rng on incoming heroes..
everyone else: nerf ana heroes to nerf ana
baumi 9000 iq: remove buyback, destroy OG
Can someone please make a "Dota 2 But Every Ability is Special, But Its Ability Draft"??
Wonder when he realize Laser is global
buyback makes dota2 thrilling and exciting, the power of uncertainty in of the game makes it unique.
44:06 Golem aura is pretty good
leaving a comment so this awesome channel ive been watching for 7 years survive. nice game!
regarding the buyback
i kinda agree with baumi but no entirely because i don't want buyback remove
it needs a major nerf for example make it 15min long cd
or still the same 5 min cd but make it so that all buyback on a team share the same cooldown
means that if 2 die only 1 can buyback within 5 mins
this will realy change how dota late game works
since you would want to reserve buyback for the core yet you guys need to be complete
Try Pudge in this game, but pick the +3 sec dismember talent. (600 x 4 DPS)
Does it make a difference for him if I whacth the whole add ?
Or doesn't matter if I skip?
Plenty of vids, great stuff mate!
Buy back makes comebacks harder
takes 5 heros to kill the spectre only 3 survive
3
2
1
boom spec is back and the game is over
I liked the old necro ult more
Also bkb is anti fun
Remember when we used to freak out cuz baumi played tinker?
Buy back has strategic uses, and removing it would mean you need to remove aegis also.
Get refresher? Ultimate refreshes it? Then refresher gets ultimate off CD, loop complete?
when you're so early the like and dislike are on perfect balance
cooking lobsters, hoping to get 70 soon so I can do RFD. Always love watching your long vids while chilling!
Baumi turned into something he hated so much.
Also, what if you buyback but if you die, the next respawn time is increased by 50%. That'll do.
@@zohran5281 is it always increasing by 50% everytime we buyback? I never really paying attention to my death timer 😂
you can rearm tp scrolls
I like your idea on getting rid for buy back.
This buyback discussion reminds me the one about unit selection limit in WC3.
The community is hellbent on having a classic mechanic, even if the game isn't getting much from it.
Buyback is fine, But its your opinion nothing to argue
@@anri688 The used skills, items and gold spent for the buyback is quite a lot of resource actually, If they add more penalty it will make the game interesting or maybe not. Last patch on buyback is they remove the gold reduced after buyback.
Dota 2 but baumi's back again
I didn't know that's how Jex's name was spelled. Assumed it was Jix or Jyx based on Dark Wiillow's pronunciation
Dota 2 but getting rooted is being gnomed
just sayin that,forcing a person to buyback,is a very huge advantage,and it changes thr game more than u think
DOTA 2 but baumi hates buyback but he doesn't want to talk about it because it's a toxic subject but let's talk about it anyway.
i mean buyback late game on AM is basically OP
oh you can't 5v1 AM? try to do it twice, with his teammates hold the space
buyback should get limited
DOTA 2 but there is no buyback, but respawn is faster ?
Life's about second chances from time to time... it's real life decisions but in a different scenario
I agree with you on buyback. Let's say I'm playing enigma, I get a sick 5 man black hole, my team combos in and we wipe the enemy team. Entire enemy team buys back, we now can't fight them because we're down on ultimates. We have to play around ultimate timing, so they can farm and aggress.
Sabaan nga baboy, yawa ka baumi
That ember though
where is your "YO"?! =)
Baumi thanks for the great videos!
buyback is actually a relic from wc3 i think. Back there you could rebuy a hero immediately at a tavern after he died, instead of building him again in the altar, but the hero then comes back with no mana and reduced health. Guess the original dota creators liked that idea, but I agree with your points. It seems tedious that both sides have to farm up buybacks and both sides have to break through the enemy buybacks first to finish, so that lategame, you basically just have to do twice as much work as before compared to the rest of the game.
How about buyback not costing money at all, but introducing a cool down penalty, any spell you use in the next minute has double CD or something
Buyback also is better for the winning team.
Even if the losing team wins a fight or gets a pickoff, it doesn't matter...
I mean the asymmetry on its own isn't a reason to get rid of it
@@tomjackal5708 But why is there a mechanic in the game that stops comebacks.
Because if you're ahead and you play well you shouldn't get knocked out by something for no good reason? I admit that comeback mechanics are definitely something that can make games more interesting but not everything needs to be one
@@tomjackal5708 Buyback saves the winning team IF they did something wrong...
Not if they play it right.
So they should be pushed....
@@tomjackal5708 If you are ahead and you screw you probly have buyback. So you have second chance to win. How is it comeback mechanic? Dota is a game where one person can carry games(bkbull****). Remove buyback
If you remove buyback from the game both teams would be scared to play aggressive and that will cause a long drawout game.
Baumi have you ever though that the reason alot of people play techies in your game is because alot of techies players watch your videos because techies players dont take Dota too seriously and you rarely play dota
Like techies is alot of fun for the guy playing techies ( maby not for the scrubbs agains him ) almost like playing a broken dota but game
i play this every day but never been in same lobby with u baumi sad
at 1st i heared tinker as ' stinker"
i think no buyback makes push strats way to good where they are always relatively good already. Catch somebody after minute 20 and end game with lycan. disgusting.
regardless of whether bb is good or bad, at least be coherent.
"buyback allows people to be reckless and that's bad", "people play conservatively to save their buyback and that's bad" are both points you made. In total that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. What you want man?
And I mean, if they already 9-slotted, which is something that bound to happen in both pro and casual games, why they need to spend resource on not used stuffs? Like, this argument of yours is actually just stupid. I get the "mistakes don't matter" part but what matters when you already get what you need to end the game? Like, think about it. Late game, 9-slotted, and with no buyback. Where you spend your resources? Where will you ACTUALLY USE your "keep stacking as the game goes" resources? I hope you have answer for this Baumi. Also wards and such, someone already handles it in a good team and even if someone not, you can buy them for very cheap and cost one jungle camp.
I am with him on the BB matter, make it once per game and i would at that it is free. So no saving gold no discrimination agist supports.
Stinker be nasty
This wasnt the new dota patch?
Make Dota 2 but you only have one buyback
Alive alive alive
"Leave a rating on the video"
Something i think I might point out about a recent(ish) champion rework in league. They actually buffed it because it was geared around late game. but these days if your late game, game is over
What if you can buy back until 40 minutes into the game