I owe an additional special thanks to thefifthmatt, who was also partly responsible for the snippet of DarkScript shown in the video. That's not the raw code, it's been compiled in a more accessible manner thanks to Matt's work.
Judging from the amount of coding-related discussion taking place here, i think you should pin this comment, lots of people think what you correct in this comment.
@@ZullietheWitch Hey, while we're looking at this dynamic duo, I wonder if you might be able to answer a related question. If I perform a parry clip into the O&S boss fight, then sit at a bonfire in order to freeze their aggro, something strange can happen. If I kill Ornstein first, then Super Smough appears as normal. However, if I kill Smough first, be it from inside or outside of the arena, Super Ornstein fails to load, leading to a softlock like the one that you show here. Would you happen to know why that might be? I'd post a link for proof, but then TH-cam would flag this comment as spam. Thank you!
Makes sense when you think about it. Smough Is the only real one there. That Ornstein is an illusion, meaning you can imagine the illusion of Ornstien taking the power of Smough who was actually real being the canon second phase of the fight.
@@Xxandrew01 What? Sorry, I haven't played in a while, and been way from lore videos for many years, what's that about Ornstein being an Illusion? By Gwyndolin? Wtf, where can I read that? I don't think it's in the wiki is it? That's some lore I never knew.
@@cheffdonty I mean, it’s not like we know everything about how the illusions work, maybe the soul is an illusion too- and it stays even after you kill gwyndolin because the fight against him isn’t canon
Prod the youtuber has put alot of speed in ds3 mod he can't even move correctly I called it fast motion because not only other are fast but you're fast too
Might actually make the fight easier. Obviously not if you speed him up too much, but a bit of extra speed might make him easier to separate from smough, creating more opportunities to focus just on taking ornstein out while smough is still far away.
I beat Super Ornstein on my first playthrough cuz I really wanted his armor set. Took me 11 tries. Artorias is hardest boss imo, which took me 30+ attempts.
Because Ornstein is so much faster, I always default to killing him first. You can get some swings in on him while staying away from Smough. The reverse is much harder. IMO you have to put in the effort to kill Smough first.
Funny story about this actually, on my first ever playthrough of Dark Souls, I fought these guys a few times and would usually end up dying on the second phase, so I tested myself if I could skip the second phase by killing them both at the same time. I was using a claymore and the swing was wide enough with a 1H attack, just had to lower them both down to low enough then swing at the right time to hit them both. I thought I had outsmarted the system so hard doing this, but alas it didn't work and I got my ass kicked anyways lol. The good ol' days of Dark Souls.
It's actually whoever you kill first and it also changes the type of fighting style as well. The one form usually stays with fire attacks and the other sticks with Malay attacks and lasers
@@abbiehahn9184 yeah, but if both die at the exact same time, who does the Prince spawn from? Does Fire Prince or Lazer Prince prioritise? Or does this Prince spawn with both movesets? Or do we just get two Princes at the same time? Or maybe we get two halves of a Prince? THESE QUESTIONS NEED ANSWERS
I actually expected this to be several years old when I saw it in my recommendations, but I guess no one has tested this (and made a video on it) until now, almost 10 years post-release
@@KratosisGod Wow I never played Demon's Souls, If I ever play, I'll probably just chill at the character creator for awhile like I used to with Dark Souls in my first few files lol.
Very nice!! I remember working on doing this a long time ago, but I had some coding knowledge so I assumed something like this was the case. Very cool to see the details laid out!
Hi, I am currently learning programming... Do you know what language is Dark Souls coded in? 1:31 It looks like PHP but I doubt it is... Is that C language? (the $ declaration of variable) Thanks for your response
@@robinh7745 I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the game is written in C/C++, but then there is some type of higher-level scripting engine built-in, so the designers can control events like this. This is the scripting language. It'd be cool if somebody with more knowledge here can confirm.
As you seem to be a fan of King Crimson, do you -much like myself - also think that "In the Court of the Crimson King" would work BEAUTIFULLY in Dark Souls?
@@chilliam00 No. It's a King Crimson reference. King Crimson was a British band from the 60's. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure made tons of references to bands in the names of its characters.
This makes me think even more that super smough was added later in development, the intended phase 2 was super ornstein If we look at it , super smough is just smough but with lighting damage while in super ornstein the fight change a lot and he also gains new attacks thats why I think it was the intended fight
It makes sense considering their fighting styles. Smough rushes in with brute force, but Ornstein stays back/darts in and out, so Smough gets himself killed first.
The music in the background is just beautiful. One of the best tracks in the soulsborne series. Can't wait to play the Demon's Souls Remake so that I can listen to this gem non-stop...wait...something isn't right...
@@trevorveillette8415is it really better? Objectively? Probably. But better music isn't always better. There was a feeling and a mood that the original had which is completely lacking in the new one. The mood matched perfectly. The remake turned it into something else entirely.
Zullie, you are an absolute godsend. Showing all three levels of the code like that, raw, simplified, and more simplified, really nice touch for people at varying depths of knowledge on coding. This was really nice. I always enjoy your videos and appreciate the content.
I guess it's still possible to mod it in a way it would be possible to fight both. Hell it might be even possible to fight all bosses at the same time at this point. And I'd love to see a "no hit boss" video about it
Almost everyone uses english in programming. That way anybody can review the code. Even people from other countries. English is universaly used even for variables, functions,... etc.
From what we know, event scripts aren't coded in English from DS1 onwards. They only exist in the shipped game as a list of bytecode instructions. It's decompiled here using DarkScript3 so that English-speaking modders can edit it. The original Japanese script is probably structured more intelligently, using constants for shared values, but all of that is compiled out. The variables here are not actual variables but special registers called condition groups. As an example, the first line of the script corresponds to the instruction internally named キャラの死亡状態で判定. Setting character immortality is キャラ不死設定. We only know these names, and most things about the format, because of an internal documentation file that was (accidentally?) included in DS1 PTDE. The 王城2ボスが力を受け継ぐ comment is from a separate internal documentation file that provides a description per event. Decompiling their C++ and Lua code does show English variables names, as you'd expect, but most of their custom formats allow them to write Japanese-only scripting and configuration.
my guess is softlock occurred which is why they added the immortality hack, if you know they can't die except on the same frame and the anim is different lengths, you know it can never softlock so the bug is fixed. definitely feels like a fix you'd make in the last month or two of dev
Even the amateur programmers rarely forget to cover every single situation while working with "if" kind of statements. Talking about Fromsoft, I don't even think that they needed to test it.
Not likely. They just had to be written in top-to-bottom order. A softlock or infinite loop might occur only if the cutscene and second phase relied on that boss being alive while it was executing. Super Ornstein is a new object and doesn't "transform" from the previous one, at least from a software perspective.
Hard to say about the softlock but the immortality is probably just to not let the player see a character they are about to fight again die before that
It adds up, DS3 lore has Smough 'the last knight to stand' and in DS1 most enemies dissapear after killing them, wouldn't be farfetched to say Orni left with the others before the game starts
@@TheKing-qz9wd It is unknown what happened to him , really . You could argue that the Ornstein you face in Dark Souls 1 is an illusion created by Gwyndolin but would Smough really be able to absorb an illusion and gain its power ? Also , when you kill him for the first time you still receive Ornstein's soul....would an illusion possess a soul for as powerful as it may be ? In Dark Souls 2 you then come to face the old dragonslayer who is in possession of Ornstein's full armor , of his ring , of his spear and who uses what's more or less his same moveset with some additions . While it's not certain it is likely that he is indeed an older , more worn out Ornstein . He also makes use of dark spells instead of lightning ones which could mean that perhaps he is slowly being corrupted by the Abyss much like Artorias was or maybe he's close to going hollow or , since his soul as the old dragonslayer is still white and not black like Artorias's once you defeat him , he is just choosing to use dark spells on purpose while still being fully conscious . This ofc brings the question "Why would Ornstein be in Drangleic ?" and here you could make a lot more theories but still not come to an answer . In the end there's Dark Souls 3's Ornstein . We don't actually find him , we find his armor set , his ring and his spear right after confronting the Nameless King . We get to know from the armor set's description that at some point he left the cathedral he was guarding in search of the Nameless King and from the Leo Ring's description that he was the first knight of the sun's eldest born . So , what happened to Ornstein ? He clearly managed to reach the place where Gwyn's first born still stood and yet there's no trace of him but his armor . There's no body or sign that he's dead and at the same time none that suggests he's alive . Nothing that can tell whether he became a dragon or not , nothing that implies he went hollow . Was Gwyn's first born plotting against his father and used Ornstein as an agent for his scheme ? If so what was his plot ? It doesn't look like he succeeded in accomplishing anything relevant judging by the state of things when the player reaches the Archdragon's peak . Besides...why would Ornstein have waited for so long before leaving the cathedral in search for the Nameless King even after Gwyn linked himself to the first flame ? One more thing that might be relevant to take into account ( or might not ) is the Nameless King's actual aspect when the player confronts him . He is supposed to be a god and yet he resembles a hollow and takes more damage from the hollowslayer greatsword which proves that he is infact one or at least in the process of becoming one....this isn't something which should happen to a god unless they linked themselves to the first flame like Gwyn did...and yet this isn't the case . Maybe Ornstein was looking for the Nameless King in hope that he could re-ignite the first flame much like his father did before him ? Or was he seeking him for some other reason we are not aware of ? Why would a dragonslayer look for a god who allied himself with dragons ? Why did the Nameless King ally himself with dragons in the first place ? As usual , it is all unknown .
This is such a good video, simplifying this down and making it satisfying to watch takes skill (not to mention, its just a cool question to have answered, especially so many years after release)
This is an incredibly interesting video. And you've always gotta love those DeS tracks. I love content like this. Good thing it's at least mildly useful information though, or you might have been receiving a call from Old Man Limit
@@theinternetpeoplesdemocrat2826 A very darksouls thing to say but in truth, God is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29) and Light and in Him is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5): and He is eternal (Heb 9:14, Isaiah 57:15) and never changes (Mal 3:6, Heb 13:8). With Him there is no variableness or shadow of turning (James 1:17). There is Hope for those who turn to Him!
@@doughammond8932 Peace grants men the illusion of life. Shackled by falsehoods, they yearn for love, unaware of its grand illusion. Until, the curse touches their flesh. We are bound by this yoke. As true as the Dark that churns within men. All men trust fully the illusion of life. But is this so wrong? A construction, a facade, and yet... A world full of warmth and resplendence. Young Hollow, are you intent on shattering the yoke, spoiling this wonderful falsehood?- Aldia, Scholar of the first sin.
@@nickzettas5220 In my headcannon I subscribe to the theory that Ornstein not only became dragon boi but became a full dragon and he's the one that the Nameless King rides
Another great job Zullie, this was Really cool! I learned some very interesting things, you, Lance and SanadasK are truly the greatest Souls programmers!! And creds to you, too, thefifthmatt!
Watch you makes me want to be able to understand the technical aspects of what you do, which is honestly the biggest compliment I can conjure. That, and also your content is pogged:)
It’s interesting to see and think about how many fail safes they had to prevent ties first it’s the fight itself then the different animation times then the immortality frames all and all very fascinating
so basically if you want the leo ring and smoughs soul you kill both at the same time, kill big ornstein, quit out and then kill smough last edit: thats impossible though because youd have to kill smough a little bit later than ornstein and hed be immortal
don't they give the item only after dying in the second form? So it would be impossible to get both because the item is given way after they register as defeated i think
"So why is that?" Before seeing the answer, my instant knee jerk reaction is that Ornstein is just flat out cooler. And his second phrase was probably vastly harder to code than it was for Smough, so the devs might have been a tiny bit biased when coding for a simul-kill scenario.
I like this kind of content. More specifically: Shows details on edge cases, and tries to explain as simple as possible, but still explaining how you got the information in the first place in order to reach your conclusion. Basically you try to not leave any loose ends, but don't skip important information. (that's how I see it at least) Thanks for the video :D
To people saying there's a lore reason: I believe it's more than likely just an arbitrary decision made by the developers and it doesn't actually have any deeper meaning
Yeah, you right, i think that ornstein survive thanks to the spare energy he took from smough, then after he failed his mission to protect anor londo he left to seek his master in order to become stronger i guess or just wanted to join him as a fellow exilied one. But i wonder where is ornstein in ds3 i mean, he took the way of the dragon but there are no reference just his set and weapon
@@monkeysk8er33 yeah, maybe idk, the lore of ds3 said that smough was the last standing in anor londo but he died for what? I mean aldrinch and sulyvanh assaulted anor londo so i suppose he died beacuse of that and ornstein was gone a long time ago before the arrival of sulyvanh, they could be ilusion but the lore its confusing
@@Franktrigop I'd go watch Vaati's videos on them. It's pretty insinuated that that's the case; and when it comes to Dark Souls lore, insinuations are practically confirmations in canon, ala Nameless King = cast out son of Gwyn.
I don’t understand a thing about programming and the technical parts of game design and you still broke this down well enough it made sense to me right after waking up before eating or having any coffee. Videos breaking stuff down like this rule and make it easier for me to understand what’s going on in the videos where you just show off the weird end result of some behind the scenes code goofiness happening. So yes I learned something and this rules and if you make more of these I will devour them
I have no idea why was this recommended to me but as someone who wants to work programming games one day once you pulled out the code I got instantly hooked, couldnt understand the MultiplayerState parts at first because I forgot theres multiplayer in DarkSouls but then when you did the translation/simplyfication it made sense. Really cool stuff, thanks for the video!
I've been wondering why videos from you were only showing up in my feed recently. I've known your name for a while through the community but had never seen content from you. Turns out you just started (or restarted?) making videos recently... and I've loved every single one of them! As a huge soulsborne fan and an aspiring game designer these bite-sized videos are both fun and interesting to discover what programming tricks were used here or there in my favourite series. Love your work Zullie!
I owe an additional special thanks to thefifthmatt, who was also partly responsible for the snippet of DarkScript shown in the video. That's not the raw code, it's been compiled in a more accessible manner thanks to Matt's work.
Judging from the amount of coding-related discussion taking place here, i think you should pin this comment, lots of people think what you correct in this comment.
@@pinolskun8764 Whoops, I had meant to pin it right after posting it.
@@ZullietheWitch Hey, while we're looking at this dynamic duo, I wonder if you might be able to answer a related question.
If I perform a parry clip into the O&S boss fight, then sit at a bonfire in order to freeze their aggro, something strange can happen. If I kill Ornstein first, then Super Smough appears as normal. However, if I kill Smough first, be it from inside or outside of the arena, Super Ornstein fails to load, leading to a softlock like the one that you show here. Would you happen to know why that might be? I'd post a link for proof, but then TH-cam would flag this comment as spam.
Thank you!
@@pinolskun8764 and what aperfect time
@@walterwhite7310 i'm afraid i didnt get the meaning of this, sorry
So Super Ornstein is canon and Super Smough is fanfiction.
Makes sense when you think about it. Smough Is the only real one there. That Ornstein is an illusion, meaning you can imagine the illusion of Ornstien taking the power of Smough who was actually real being the canon second phase of the fight.
@@Xxandrew01 What? Sorry, I haven't played in a while, and been way from lore videos for many years, what's that about Ornstein being an Illusion? By Gwyndolin? Wtf, where can I read that? I don't think it's in the wiki is it? That's some lore I never knew.
He's out of line but he's right
Pretty sure he's not an illusion... you get his soul from defeating him.
@@cheffdonty I mean, it’s not like we know everything about how the illusions work, maybe the soul is an illusion too- and it stays even after you kill gwyndolin because the fight against him isn’t canon
"what if we made ornstein faster?" i have nightmares now.
Hahahahha i did thought "wtf dont make HIM faster !" xD
Imagine him at 100x speed
Prod the youtuber has put alot of speed in ds3 mod he can't even move correctly
I called it fast motion because not only other are fast but you're fast too
Might actually make the fight easier. Obviously not if you speed him up too much, but a bit of extra speed might make him easier to separate from smough, creating more opportunities to focus just on taking ornstein out while smough is still far away.
When i try to kill ornstein he Just walks and smough charges at me
Smough is slower, yet he dies faster.
Ornstein is faster, yet he dies slowly.
Ironic...
The Virgin Smough and the Chad Ornstein
@@NetherStray The Chad Omega Buff Smough and the Chad Nameless King-Seeker Ornstein
Also, if you "kill" Ornstein first, he is actually still alive during the phase change cutscene, you'll see one of his hands moving while he's down.
The candle that burns twice as bright lasts twice as long.
Wait no-
Ornstein is a drama queen.
Clever idea for a video, and the perfect person to make it!
Hello Vaati
consistent with the l o r e too
[insert lady Maria prepare to cry joke here]
Tell me a Deepest lore of orstein and smough
Τhe Lore Master himself....
Ornstein is the intended second phase confirmed lol
Hmm... or it is intended to balance out how Solair will default to attacking Ornstein...
I beat Super Ornstein on my first playthrough cuz I really wanted his armor set. Took me 11 tries. Artorias is hardest boss imo, which took me 30+ attempts.
@@crusader1247 I usually beat Ornstein on NG then Smough on NG+, he's much easier even on NG+7. Leo Ring and Ornstein set is worth it.
Because Ornstein is so much faster, I always default to killing him first. You can get some swings in on him while staying away from Smough. The reverse is much harder. IMO you have to put in the effort to kill Smough first.
@@bificommander Smough is easy to dodge and hit though. Ornstein jumps back after lots of his attacks so I'd say it's harder to kill ornstein first.
Funny story about this actually, on my first ever playthrough of Dark Souls, I fought these guys a few times and would usually end up dying on the second phase, so I tested myself if I could skip the second phase by killing them both at the same time. I was using a claymore and the swing was wide enough with a 1H attack, just had to lower them both down to low enough then swing at the right time to hit them both. I thought I had outsmarted the system so hard doing this, but alas it didn't work and I got my ass kicked anyways lol. The good ol' days of Dark Souls.
"The best laid plans of mice and Dark Souls players..."
Love how you did more work than just beating the 2nd phase, like cheating on a exam!
Super Ornstein: "I am... inevitable."
funni superhero movie meme
@@and8091 it do be a funni superhero movie meme
Now do this with DS3's Demon Princes and see who gets to be the new demon king
Now I'm suddenly curious about that as well
Both of them do. Twin Princes Hell Edition
@@ansuz5903 Oh brother...
It's actually whoever you kill first and it also changes the type of fighting style as well. The one form usually stays with fire attacks and the other sticks with Malay attacks and lasers
@@abbiehahn9184 yeah, but if both die at the exact same time, who does the Prince spawn from?
Does Fire Prince or Lazer Prince prioritise?
Or does this Prince spawn with both movesets?
Or do we just get two Princes at the same time?
Or maybe we get two halves of a Prince?
THESE QUESTIONS NEED ANSWERS
I actually expected this to be several years old when I saw it in my recommendations, but I guess no one has tested this (and made a video on it) until now, almost 10 years post-release
There's a 7 year old video that shows the exact same tho, and another one 10 months ago, ahah.
I think limit breakers did a video on this
This was tested in normal gameplay forever ago, but being able to actually read the gameplay scripts is a fairly new thing
Were you expecting Elden Ring to be the secret boss?
Silly you Elden ring is a text based game hidden in ds2
@@shmelvin4659 lol
Nice try, but we all know you can only play Elden Ring after you solve the mystery of why they call him Big Hat Logan
@@SamitadeMilanesa nah Elden ring is actually just illusionary walls
Yes
this music in background gives me conniptions
i like to listen to it at night sometimes
Why, it's si relaxing?
Makes me feel all fuzzy and sleepy.
It's the demon's souls character creator music.
@@KratosisGod Wow I never played Demon's Souls, If I ever play, I'll probably just chill at the character creator for awhile like I used to with Dark Souls in my first few files lol.
Very nice!! I remember working on doing this a long time ago, but I had some coding knowledge so I assumed something like this was the case. Very cool to see the details laid out!
Speed runner here
Nice
Love you bobos
Hi, I am currently learning programming... Do you know what language is Dark Souls coded in?
1:31 It looks like PHP but I doubt it is... Is that C language? (the $ declaration of variable)
Thanks for your response
@@robinh7745 I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the game is written in C/C++, but then there is some type of higher-level scripting engine built-in, so the designers can control events like this. This is the scripting language.
It'd be cool if somebody with more knowledge here can confirm.
@@iamamish From my understanding they used Lua for scripting, but that doesn't look like it. 🤔
Viewers: wait, its all Ornstein?
Zullie: always has been.
i still can't believe people are still experimenting with the game, it's a nice cozy community in here.
It is
Dark Souls cozy community.., That's an interesting idea, that doesn't exist. ;-)
As you seem to be a fan of King Crimson, do you -much like myself - also think that "In the Court of the Crimson King" would work BEAUTIFULLY in Dark Souls?
@@sozaj Is this a JoJo reference?
@@chilliam00 No. It's a King Crimson reference. King Crimson was a British band from the 60's. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure made tons of references to bands in the names of its characters.
The "layman" programming simplifications (both stages of it) are really really cool.
This makes me think even more that super smough was added later in development, the intended phase 2 was super ornstein
If we look at it , super smough is just smough but with lighting damage while in super ornstein the fight change a lot and he also gains new attacks thats why I think it was the intended fight
Also in terms of reward you get more from 2nd phase Ornstein
I like to imagine it's still Ornstein inside Super Smough's armor.
He was too spicy to absorb
It makes sense considering their fighting styles.
Smough rushes in with brute force, but Ornstein stays back/darts in and out, so Smough gets himself killed first.
The music in the background is just beautiful. One of the best tracks in the soulsborne series.
Can't wait to play the Demon's Souls Remake so that I can listen to this gem non-stop...wait...something isn't right...
Yeah, it's really sad how the remake totally disregarded and altered everything that was amazing about the original game's soundtrack.
@@MarkHogan994 maiden astrea is way better in the remake than the original at least. It sounds amaaaazing
@@trevorveillette8415is it really better? Objectively? Probably. But better music isn't always better. There was a feeling and a mood that the original had which is completely lacking in the new one. The mood matched perfectly. The remake turned it into something else entirely.
Zullie, you are an absolute godsend. Showing all three levels of the code like that, raw, simplified, and more simplified, really nice touch for people at varying depths of knowledge on coding. This was really nice. I always enjoy your videos and appreciate the content.
well at least we don’t have to fight super ornstine and super smough at the same time
I guess it's still possible to mod it in a way it would be possible to fight both. Hell it might be even possible to fight all bosses at the same time at this point. And I'd love to see a "no hit boss" video about it
@@nomecognome6713
It's possible but whoever does is a maniac to me
the biggest shock for me is Dark souls is coded in English
Wouldn't that be hell for the devs
In general JP devs use english and romaji for some variable names
Almost everyone uses english in programming. That way anybody can review the code. Even people from other countries. English is universaly used even for variables, functions,... etc.
From what we know, event scripts aren't coded in English from DS1 onwards. They only exist in the shipped game as a list of bytecode instructions. It's decompiled here using DarkScript3 so that English-speaking modders can edit it. The original Japanese script is probably structured more intelligently, using constants for shared values, but all of that is compiled out. The variables here are not actual variables but special registers called condition groups.
As an example, the first line of the script corresponds to the instruction internally named キャラの死亡状態で判定. Setting character immortality is キャラ不死設定. We only know these names, and most things about the format, because of an internal documentation file that was (accidentally?) included in DS1 PTDE. The 王城2ボスが力を受け継ぐ comment is from a separate internal documentation file that provides a description per event.
Decompiling their C++ and Lua code does show English variables names, as you'd expect, but most of their custom formats allow them to write Japanese-only scripting and configuration.
@David Assébof I am...bilingual...and..I'm not American I just think it'll be easier for the devs to code in their own language
Makes we wonder if they programmed this event from the beginning or if the softlock occurred during testing.
my guess is softlock occurred which is why they added the immortality hack, if you know they can't die except on the same frame and the anim is different lengths, you know it can never softlock so the bug is fixed. definitely feels like a fix you'd make in the last month or two of dev
Even the amateur programmers rarely forget to cover every single situation while working with "if" kind of statements. Talking about Fromsoft, I don't even think that they needed to test it.
Not likely. They just had to be written in top-to-bottom order. A softlock or infinite loop might occur only if the cutscene and second phase relied on that boss being alive while it was executing. Super Ornstein is a new object and doesn't "transform" from the previous one, at least from a software perspective.
Hard to say about the softlock but the immortality is probably just to not let the player see a character they are about to fight again die before that
Wish Code Vein had discovered the softlock mechanic. Happened me in the Canoneer fight and oh boy way is it frustrating
Given this, Old Dragonslayer in Dark Souls 2 and Ornstein's travel to Archdragon Peak in DS3 (but no trace of Smough) do make some vague sense.
Ornstein is undead and only Hollowed after he met back up with NK.
It adds up, DS3 lore has Smough 'the last knight to stand' and in DS1 most enemies dissapear after killing them, wouldn't be farfetched to say Orni left with the others before the game starts
@@TheKing-qz9wd It is unknown what happened to him , really .
You could argue that the Ornstein you face in Dark Souls 1 is an illusion created by Gwyndolin but would Smough really be able to absorb an illusion and gain its power ? Also , when you kill him for the first time you still receive Ornstein's soul....would an illusion possess a soul for as powerful as it may be ?
In Dark Souls 2 you then come to face the old dragonslayer who is in possession of Ornstein's full armor , of his ring , of his spear and who uses what's more or less his same moveset with some additions . While it's not certain it is likely that he is indeed an older , more worn out Ornstein . He also makes use of dark spells instead of lightning ones which could mean that perhaps he is slowly being corrupted by the Abyss much like Artorias was or maybe he's close to going hollow or , since his soul as the old dragonslayer is still white and not black like Artorias's once you defeat him , he is just choosing to use dark spells on purpose while still being fully conscious .
This ofc brings the question "Why would Ornstein be in Drangleic ?" and here you could make a lot more theories but still not come to an answer .
In the end there's Dark Souls 3's Ornstein . We don't actually find him , we find his armor set , his ring and his spear right after confronting the Nameless King . We get to know from the armor set's description that at some point he left the cathedral he was guarding in search of the Nameless King and from the Leo Ring's description that he was the first knight of the sun's eldest born .
So , what happened to Ornstein ? He clearly managed to reach the place where Gwyn's first born still stood and yet there's no trace of him but his armor . There's no body or sign that he's dead and at the same time none that suggests he's alive . Nothing that can tell whether he became a dragon or not , nothing that implies he went hollow .
Was Gwyn's first born plotting against his father and used Ornstein as an agent for his scheme ? If so what was his plot ? It doesn't look like he succeeded in accomplishing anything relevant judging by the state of things when the player reaches the Archdragon's peak . Besides...why would Ornstein have waited for so long before leaving the cathedral in search for the Nameless King even after Gwyn linked himself to the first flame ?
One more thing that might be relevant to take into account ( or might not ) is the Nameless King's actual aspect when the player confronts him . He is supposed to be a god and yet he resembles a hollow and takes more damage from the hollowslayer greatsword which proves that he is infact one or at least in the process of becoming one....this isn't something which should happen to a god unless they linked themselves to the first flame like Gwyn did...and yet this isn't the case . Maybe Ornstein was looking for the Nameless King in hope that he could re-ignite the first flame much like his father did before him ? Or was he seeking him for some other reason we are not aware of ? Why would a dragonslayer look for a god who allied himself with dragons ? Why did the Nameless King ally himself with dragons in the first place ? As usual , it is all unknown .
@@kasumi2173
Exactly. Just another rabbit hole in Dark Souls that'll actually drive me to Hollowing if I prattle about it for hours.
I don't think you can use how an if statement works in programming to justify lore, lol
Real fucking nice. Came in expecting some surface level half assed testing, but you satisfied my curiosity completely.
Thank you Zullie, very cool!
This is such a good video, simplifying this down and making it satisfying to watch takes skill
(not to mention, its just a cool question to have answered, especially so many years after release)
This style of video was amazing. Loved the break down of your hypothesis, testing, and conclusions
Honestly I'm glad you're uploading more, I enjoy the type of content you make.
This is an incredibly interesting video. And you've always gotta love those DeS tracks. I love content like this. Good thing it's at least mildly useful information though, or you might have been receiving a call from Old Man Limit
11 years later, we still got that dark souls fever burning bright. May it's light never fade.
No flame, however brilliant, does not one day splutter and fade.
@@theinternetpeoplesdemocrat2826 A very darksouls thing to say but in truth, God is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29) and Light and in Him is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5): and He is eternal (Heb 9:14, Isaiah 57:15) and never changes (Mal 3:6, Heb 13:8). With Him there is no variableness or shadow of turning (James 1:17). There is Hope for those who turn to Him!
@@doughammond8932 Peace grants men the illusion of life.
Shackled by falsehoods, they yearn for love, unaware of its grand illusion.
Until, the curse touches their flesh.
We are bound by this yoke.
As true as the Dark that churns within men.
All men trust fully the illusion of life.
But is this so wrong?
A construction, a facade, and yet...
A world full of warmth and resplendence.
Young Hollow, are you intent on shattering the yoke, spoiling this wonderful falsehood?- Aldia, Scholar of the first sin.
I never thought I'd be interested in something like this, but after a couple videos you've gotten my sub. Keep up this great work.
I truly love your video ideas. They are always so unique
The music you put behind this video made it 1000x more enthralling
Ornstein has to become dragon boi in DS3 before he carks it, giving him priority
It would actually be great if a dragonboi named Ornstein, or Old Dragonslayer or something, would invade in Archdragon Peak.
@@nickzettas5220 In my headcannon I subscribe to the theory that Ornstein not only became dragon boi but became a full dragon and he's the one that the Nameless King rides
Another great job Zullie, this was Really cool! I learned some very interesting things, you, Lance and SanadasK are truly the greatest Souls programmers!! And creds to you, too, thefifthmatt!
Watch you makes me want to be able to understand the technical aspects of what you do, which is honestly the biggest compliment I can conjure. That, and also your content is pogged:)
I was expecting both of them to go into phase 2 and then you’d have to deal with both of them at the same time
It’s interesting to see and think about how many fail safes they had to prevent ties first it’s the fight itself then the different animation times then the immortality frames all and all very fascinating
Ah, it's been a while since I subbed to a channel because I genuinely enjoyed the content, the editing and the atmosphere of it. Thanks, Zullie.
haven’t seen so much effort put in a video this short in a long time, good job
The code part is fascinating
Thanks Zullie, you answered a question that was on my mind for years.
This stuff is so amazing. I really love your channel, Zullie ^_^
This was short, sweet, to-the- point type of videos that I love. You earned a sub from me.
I was hoping for a hidden ornstein/smough hybrid boss fight
If I remember right it defaults to smough’s death because he has a shorter death animation
that's quite literally stated in the video, no?
@@Willie6785 it was before I watched the video
The comment, that is
Now this is the kind of content I was looking for. Thanks for sharing!
dude, thank you for making this. it scratched an itch I've wanted scratched for a long time. perfect.
so basically if you want the leo ring and smoughs soul you kill both at the same time, kill big ornstein, quit out and then kill smough last
edit: thats impossible though because youd have to kill smough a little bit later than ornstein and hed be immortal
don't they give the item only after dying in the second form? So it would be impossible to get both because the item is given way after they register as defeated i think
@@pinolskun8764 2:34
@@topichu970 not sure what you want me to see, that you only get the leo ring?
@@pinolskun8764 you get the leo ring but the fight doesnt end, meaning that you can quit out and start the fight again
@@topichu970 if the items save when the game softlocks, yes. But that cant happen with the normal game so
I was kind hoping for big boy smough and ornstein
The little drawings add so much to the video. I love them.
This is WAY more in-depth than I expected! Good show! You have my sub! Praise the sun.
"So why is that?" Before seeing the answer, my instant knee jerk reaction is that Ornstein is just flat out cooler. And his second phrase was probably vastly harder to code than it was for Smough, so the devs might have been a tiny bit biased when coding for a simul-kill scenario.
It was really interesting to know logic of O&S boss fight. Very cool video.
This was a really cool experiment thank you for sharing! I hadn't thought of this before you proposed the question
I like this kind of content.
More specifically: Shows details on edge cases, and tries to explain as simple as possible, but still explaining how you got the information in the first place in order to reach your conclusion.
Basically you try to not leave any loose ends, but don't skip important information. (that's how I see it at least)
Thanks for the video :D
daMN THIS IS A GREAT VIDEO AND EDITING HOLY COW
Thank you zullie !
I have been thinking about this for a while. Thank you
I really love videos like this, thanks!
To people saying there's a lore reason: I believe it's more than likely just an arbitrary decision made by the developers and it doesn't actually have any deeper meaning
What i learned from this is that smough is just too dummy thiqqq
This video is very well made!
I especially love the simple and efficient approach :
Make idea
Try idea
Observe
Conclusion
Love these videos.. keep the good work Zullie!!
Ornstien wouldn't have looked for Nameless King if he died first
Yeah, you right, i think that ornstein survive thanks to the spare energy he took from smough, then after he failed his mission to protect anor londo he left to seek his master in order to become stronger i guess or just wanted to join him as a fellow exilied one. But i wonder where is ornstein in ds3 i mean, he took the way of the dragon but there are no reference just his set and weapon
Both Ornstein and Smough are illusions created by Gwyndollin. The real Smough dies elsewhere, and the real Ornstein goes to search for Nameless King.
@@monkeysk8er33 yeah, maybe idk, the lore of ds3 said that smough was the last standing in anor londo but he died for what? I mean aldrinch and sulyvanh assaulted anor londo so i suppose he died beacuse of that and ornstein was gone a long time ago before the arrival of sulyvanh, they could be ilusion but the lore its confusing
@@Franktrigop I'd go watch Vaati's videos on them. It's pretty insinuated that that's the case; and when it comes to Dark Souls lore, insinuations are practically confirmations in canon, ala Nameless King = cast out son of Gwyn.
I don’t understand a thing about programming and the technical parts of game design and you still broke this down well enough it made sense to me right after waking up before eating or having any coffee. Videos breaking stuff down like this rule and make it easier for me to understand what’s going on in the videos where you just show off the weird end result of some behind the scenes code goofiness happening.
So yes I learned something and this rules and if you make more of these I will devour them
Quality content, loving these videos.
This was ridiculously interesting! Keep the good work 👌
Good info on this.
It's actually pretty neat that you dug into the code to figure out the how and why of this.
props to you both this video typed SNAGGED my attention straight up. would love more
This is super cool, I really enjoyed it, good video!
Straight forward and to the point with interesting observations.
Thanks.
Why can't more investigative youtubers be like you?
Can we appreciate the little observation and conclusion icons? I think they're very nice.
This was actually something I was legit thinking when I was watching Chris’ playthrough on OneyPlays, thanks for answering the question
That's actually one of my longest-standing questions about this game. Thanks for answering it definitively!
Splendid choice of music, splendid video- here's to that!
I love this. Videos like this without commentary are so much better 😁
I have no idea why was this recommended to me but as someone who wants to work programming games one day once you pulled out the code I got instantly hooked, couldnt understand the MultiplayerState parts at first because I forgot theres multiplayer in DarkSouls but then when you did the translation/simplyfication it made sense. Really cool stuff, thanks for the video!
This was super cool, great video!
Really interesting video! I liked the play by play for figuring it out, good stuff!
This video was very interesting and informative. Thank you!
That's amazing. I would love to see more videos where you show and analyze the code of dark souls games.
Wasn’t expecting you go into the actual game code which was really cool to see, thanks
Cool vid! Amazing song selection ;
I have been really enjoying your Dark Souls science.
It's about time someone answered the really important questions of this world! Thank you soo much!
I've been wondering why videos from you were only showing up in my feed recently. I've known your name for a while through the community but had never seen content from you. Turns out you just started (or restarted?) making videos recently... and I've loved every single one of them! As a huge soulsborne fan and an aspiring game designer these bite-sized videos are both fun and interesting to discover what programming tricks were used here or there in my favourite series. Love your work Zullie!
Love the background music. Fits perfectly
This is already art... and art it shall become once more. Thank you so much, Zullie.
You always come through with stuff I never thought of doing.
Thats a nice analytic and Youre Videos Are Great 👍
Wow, it is amazing job, thank you! Good work 👍
Asks an interesting question, goes straight for the point and explains what happens. Nice vid
Glad you guys are doing some amazing research
Awesome video idea, never thought I wanted an answer for that question
Looking into the code behind this boss fight was very interesting, thank you!
solid methodology with clean delivery.
well done !
I really liked the video but it's 3 A.M and with that music I was a kinda scared lul. Interesting video btw, good job
That was actually quite interesting. Thanks for this video!
Damn, it's super satisfying to see game code laid bare like this as a programmer. I'm new to the channel but I hope there's more like this.