Yes, your focus on fussy customers, because let’s face it, promoting “premium service” directly attracts those customers, and rightly so, makes it hard to provide to them… pricing becomes a nightmare, because if you’re ever asked to justify high prices, and some customers will challenge your pricing, you’re quickly into quagmire…
Keith Cooper, thank you for the "free" version of your services. I've found that even offering "free" services to some groups is more than often interrupted or overcome by very difficult "customers." So much so that it drove me to not perform volunteer photo work for most groups, especially large ones. I love your pragmatism, by the way.
Keith, I have a friend who is a house painter and there are those difficult customers in that business also. They have a dozen paint samples on the wall on a sunny day, choose a color and a few days later, on a cloudy day, tell him that he must have applied the wrong paint. I can’t imagine how many times you must have dealt with customers who are totally uninformed about the intricacies of photo printing and lighting. Excellent advice. I print for myself and it’s gotten much better after watching dozens of your Free videos. Thank you.
😂 Keith, I am an artist with big plans to start selling prints of my work on my website - and you are right about artists! Most eyes do glaze over when it comes to the technical side of things. I am taking the bull by the horns though and putting the time into learning everything from paper stock, to photography and photoshop editing and profiles before taking the leap. Glad to have found your channel and subscribed!
Thanks - hope it goes well. Email me at Northlight if you've any specific topics I've not covered - I can't cover everything, but I do get a lot of ideas from people's questions.
I remember getting some grief on a forum where a few people said 'The customer is always right'. I explained exactly why this particular customer was not right and why as a small business I could not afford to operate with that mantra. 'Extra fussy customers' - reasonable ones I am happy to try to accommodate; the unreasonable........! Always enjoy your insights, Keith.
Keith, as always interesting, practical and funny at the same time. Listening to you I remembered that entrepreneur that said "we can provide services that are cheap, quickly delivered and of a high quality standard; you can choose two out of these three features"?
Sound, sensible advice across all types of profession, really. Once something starts to involve other people’s’ requirements and the ‘sordid topic of coin’, it can become a drudge. It can really take the enjoyment out of a hobby.
@@KeithCooper Very wise, Keith. I'd love to get to the point where I was able to 'create' what I want to create and say 'here you go, take it or leave it - this is what I'm offering'. But you have to reach a certain point of financial security for that to become a reality! Wish you all the best.
Keith's on the "money" with his assessment. Most people have no clue the costs associated with printing. Remember it's not just the materials used to print but the time and effort in capturing said image, editing said image, then marking sure the image looks exactly like the image on your monitor. Most people want a five star service for a one to two star price.
Yes, but it's not just printing. My wife has a business and she is sometimes asked to provide a product for less than the cost of the raw materials required to make it. Nevermind her time and labor. Her experience has informed her as to the necessity of having a written contract for every one of her transactions.
I've toyed with the idea of offering two levels of service. I provide my full photographic services for my normal full rate, if the client balks at the price I can offer to rent them my gear for half that price and they can shoot the images themselves lol. So little value is placed on skills these days, I mean how hard can it be to take photographs, you just hold the camera up to your eye and press a button. Same could be said of printing, you just click " print " on your computer, load the paper and you're done, easy peasy! 😁 Analogously, I'm sure I could build a three storey extension onto my house, after all, its just a matter of laying a few bricks...isn't it? 🧐
Oddly... I quite enjoy working with artists, I make clear from the get-go that it's a process that involves in-studio viewings and personal collection. An hour or so sitting with tha artist, the artwork and the calibrated screens, and everyone is happy. Quick hard proof and then on to the proper papers for production. As a fairly new business (but with years of experience backing it up) my aims are currently just cost-covering. The arts world is heavily word-of-mouth and trust based. That reminds me, I must email you..
There are two aspects to that... personally I've helped out quite a few artists in this area, but as a business, it's about profitability. It's the same reason I make icc profiles available from my printer reviews, but I don't offer the service commercially. We have two prices, full price or free. This is the free stuff - full price is reassuringly expensive ;-)
Thank you Keith for your efforts that we get as the Free Version. How do we know the 5300 has gone back to Epson, ? Keith is back filming from the office studio 😂 Dave B, Manila.
Thanks Dave - the printer is actually on a stand at 'The Photography Show' in the UK this weekend. I suspect they may have taken off the blue tape though ;-)
I think that the printing service business is super hard to compete with, both for features, and for price… take Saal-digital for instance… super high quality print results, many different papers, canvas, and aluminum dibond… and to be fair, the prices are not that much for us consumers… and they Los have to provide re-printing ad-how, as prints can go awry, so this is an expense as well… and then there’s either high volume maintenance of equipment, or low volume high costs to replenish inks and paper… I suspect the business model, and profiting from it, is not simple!
Keith I’m struggling with the decision to buy a second hand hp latex printer to sell uploaded images on canvas…I am graphic designer make logo and branding. I have a 5000 euro budget I want to be able to sell up to a0 and panoramic, even try printing on boards. I keep thinking that it is bound to fail and should put my money in bitcoin. What is the biggest mistake. Startups make?
The biggest mistake in this area [or at least printing related ones] is to think that once you've decided on a printer, that's the difficult part done with. The real bit which catches people is the marketing side, in making a sustainable and profitable business. Sustainable means finding ongoing customers, and profitable means understanding your true costs. Even when I had big 44" printers here, they were unlikely ever to be a major contributor to the business bottom line. They made some money, but they were also part of our general business marketing activities, so they got me training work and made it even easier to work with printer and media companies. I've quite a few related videos - see the business section in my main categorised index at www.northlight-images.co.uk/keith-cooper-photography-videos-index/ PS I produced this index because YT is so useless at letting you curate a big collection of videos ;-)
@@KeithCooper thank you very Much Keith! For your extended answer. I am on your website right now and its a beaty. Ill browse through your videos to get me a bit educated on the printing part, have nice weekend! Edwin, Netherkands
Hi Keith , I'm a Grandad trying to learn photography / editing / printing in order to fuel my new found hobby ( 1st DSLR 8yrs ago ) . Over this period you have educated me so much but also bamboozled many times ! , this is a good thing as it forces the old grey matter to get to work . I have a question ( when I get round to it ) , I'm very much enjoying capturing / editing and printing images at the level I've learned so far but a recent issue has niggled at my engineering brain . I have both a Windows and Mac set up and edit / print from both through photoshop with reasonable success , but having watched a couple of videos about printing with Canon professional print layout I thought it might be worth another look ( I did download it when I purchased the printers but never used it ) . I selected a print to test out this add-0n program in photoshop but when I clicked Automate it was nowhere to be seen ! . Right or wrong I do allow Adobe to automatically update without me understanding the consequences ! ! So this is my question ( sorry for the drivel ) have you ever thought about covering the issue that occurs when Adobe Photoshop updates but does not bring across the previously downloaded software ? . With loads of messing about I've now fixed this ( on my Mac M1 ) , for most this might be quite a simple fix but when I looked online the issue wasn't explained for the likes of me HeHe .
IIRC, when installing the Canon software, it should detect the presence of Photoshop and install it as a plugin. Just download and re-install the latest version would be my suggestion... I've not ever come across issues, but remember that I only ever test stuff like this as part of a printer review. The problem with attempting to cover any of this stuff is that unless I see the problem, I cannot describe it or investigate any 'fix' - there are so many explanations/causes that nothing I could produce would be meaningful at all
Thanks for your reply , having taken in your knowledge over the last few years I should have realised you don't review software issues . I just thought , being a Mac user you might have been able to shed some light on the subject . Regards @@KeithCooper
@@KeithCooper iam planing to buy a epson wf c679a which is a pigment ink with a resolution of 4800x1200 , is that fine for photography photos? Many thanks for your help
Can't say I'm afraid - I've never tested that model... However, it's a basic 4 colour office printer not a photo printer. Pigment or dye is pretty much an irrelevance It might well be capable of reasonable photos on some papers with good icc profiles, but no-one is going to make those for you...
![Epson vs Canon. What's the best 17 inch printer for you? P900 vs PRO-1100 vs P5300 [P5370]](/img/n.gif)
Keith, your ‘free’ service is greatly appreciated. Your advice is spot on.
Thanks!
Yes, your focus on fussy customers, because let’s face it, promoting “premium service” directly attracts those customers, and rightly so, makes it hard to provide to them… pricing becomes a nightmare, because if you’re ever asked to justify high prices, and some customers will challenge your pricing, you’re quickly into quagmire…
Keith Cooper, thank you for the "free" version of your services. I've found that even offering "free" services to some groups is more than often interrupted or overcome by very difficult "customers." So much so that it drove me to not perform volunteer photo work for most groups, especially large ones.
I love your pragmatism, by the way.
Thanks - I do have to remind people sometimes that the 'free' version does not come with inexhaustible free support ;-)
Fun reality talk. Thanks for all your excellent (and free) advice!
Thanks!
Keith, I have a friend who is a house painter and there are those difficult customers in that business also. They have a dozen paint samples on the wall on a sunny day, choose a color and a few days later, on a cloudy day, tell him that he must have applied the wrong paint.
I can’t imagine how many times you must have dealt with customers who are totally uninformed about the intricacies of photo printing and lighting. Excellent advice. I print for myself and it’s gotten much better after watching dozens of your Free videos. Thank you.
Thanks - my wife had the same issue when she was a jewellery designer and coloured stones on a web site.
Being self employed for over thirty years I all to well know what you are saying. It was making me laugh. Love your videos.
Thanks - glad you enjoyed it!
😂 Keith, I am an artist with big plans to start selling prints of my work on my website - and you are right about artists! Most eyes do glaze over when it comes to the technical side of things. I am taking the bull by the horns though and putting the time into learning everything from paper stock, to photography and photoshop editing and profiles before taking the leap. Glad to have found your channel and subscribed!
Thanks - hope it goes well.
Email me at Northlight if you've any specific topics I've not covered - I can't cover everything, but I do get a lot of ideas from people's questions.
@@KeithCooper thanks Keith, much appreciated
I remember getting some grief on a forum where a few people said 'The customer is always right'. I explained exactly why this particular customer was not right and why as a small business I could not afford to operate with that mantra. 'Extra fussy customers' - reasonable ones I am happy to try to accommodate; the unreasonable........!
Always enjoy your insights, Keith.
Thanks - I've been told that too, typically by people who were likely to be one of those 'fussy' customers ;-)
Keith, as always interesting, practical and funny at the same time. Listening to you I remembered that entrepreneur that said "we can provide services that are cheap, quickly delivered and of a high quality standard; you can choose two out of these three features"?
Thanks - very true
Sound, sensible advice across all types of profession, really. Once something starts to involve other people’s’ requirements and the ‘sordid topic of coin’, it can become a drudge. It can really take the enjoyment out of a hobby.
Yes - I was very careful with this when I took up photography for a job ;-)
@@KeithCooper Very wise, Keith. I'd love to get to the point where I was able to 'create' what I want to create and say 'here you go, take it or leave it - this is what I'm offering'. But you have to reach a certain point of financial security for that to become a reality! Wish you all the best.
Keith, thank you! I really enjoy and learn from your videos,
Thanks for that!
Great video, useful point of view. Thank you
Thanks - glad it was of interest!
Keith's on the "money" with his assessment. Most people have no clue the costs associated with printing. Remember it's not just the materials used to print but the time and effort in capturing said image, editing said image, then marking sure the image looks exactly like the image on your monitor.
Most people want a five star service for a one to two star price.
Yes, but it's not just printing. My wife has a business and she is sometimes asked to provide a product for less than the cost of the raw materials required to make it. Nevermind her time and labor. Her experience has informed her as to the necessity of having a written contract for every one of her transactions.
Make that a zero star price ;-)
You can print images without doing the image capturing.
What does "You can print images without doing the image capturing" actually mean in this respect?
@@KeithCooper It means the person doing the printing doesn’t have to take the photo.
I've toyed with the idea of offering two levels of service. I provide my full photographic services for my normal full rate, if the client balks at the price I can offer to rent them my gear for half that price and they can shoot the images themselves lol.
So little value is placed on skills these days, I mean how hard can it be to take photographs, you just hold the camera up to your eye and press a button.
Same could be said of printing, you just click " print " on your computer, load the paper and you're done, easy peasy! 😁
Analogously, I'm sure I could build a three storey extension onto my house, after all, its just a matter of laying a few bricks...isn't it? 🧐
Yes, just get the right kit and the cash rolls in ;-)
Oddly... I quite enjoy working with artists, I make clear from the get-go that it's a process that involves in-studio viewings and personal collection. An hour or so sitting with tha artist, the artwork and the calibrated screens, and everyone is happy. Quick hard proof and then on to the proper papers for production. As a fairly new business (but with years of experience backing it up) my aims are currently just cost-covering. The arts world is heavily word-of-mouth and trust based.
That reminds me, I must email you..
There are two aspects to that... personally I've helped out quite a few artists in this area, but as a business, it's about profitability. It's the same reason I make icc profiles available from my printer reviews, but I don't offer the service commercially.
We have two prices, full price or free. This is the free stuff - full price is reassuringly expensive ;-)
Wise lesson!
Thanks!
Thank you Keith for your efforts that we get as the Free Version.
How do we know the 5300 has gone back to Epson, ?
Keith is back filming from the office studio 😂
Dave B, Manila.
Thanks Dave - the printer is actually on a stand at 'The Photography Show' in the UK this weekend. I suspect they may have taken off the blue tape though ;-)
Thanks, Keith.
At what DPI did you print the violet-colored blossom?
I don't recall, it's a big image, just scaled to fit the paper - well over 300
I think that the printing service business is super hard to compete with, both for features, and for price… take Saal-digital for instance… super high quality print results, many different papers, canvas, and aluminum dibond… and to be fair, the prices are not that much for us consumers… and they Los have to provide re-printing ad-how, as prints can go awry, so this is an expense as well… and then there’s either high volume maintenance of equipment, or low volume high costs to replenish inks and paper… I suspect the business model, and profiting from it, is not simple!
Thanks - Yes, a very complex business if you try and expand it. Very precise costings needed
Keith I’m struggling with the decision to buy a second hand hp latex printer to sell uploaded images on canvas…I am graphic designer make logo and branding. I have a 5000 euro budget I want to be able to sell up to a0 and panoramic, even try printing on boards. I keep thinking that it is bound to fail and should put my money in bitcoin. What is the biggest mistake. Startups make?
The biggest mistake in this area [or at least printing related ones] is to think that once you've decided on a printer, that's the difficult part done with.
The real bit which catches people is the marketing side, in making a sustainable and profitable business. Sustainable means finding ongoing customers, and profitable means understanding your true costs.
Even when I had big 44" printers here, they were unlikely ever to be a major contributor to the business bottom line. They made some money, but they were also part of our general business marketing activities, so they got me training work and made it even easier to work with printer and media companies.
I've quite a few related videos - see the business section in my main categorised index at www.northlight-images.co.uk/keith-cooper-photography-videos-index/
PS I produced this index because YT is so useless at letting you curate a big collection of videos ;-)
@@KeithCooper thank you very Much Keith! For your extended answer. I am on your website right now and its a beaty. Ill browse through your videos to get me a bit educated on the printing part, have nice weekend! Edwin, Netherkands
Hi Keith , I'm a Grandad trying to learn photography / editing / printing in order to fuel my new found hobby ( 1st DSLR 8yrs ago ) . Over this period you have educated me so much but also bamboozled many times ! , this is a good thing as it forces the old grey matter to get to work .
I have a question ( when I get round to it ) , I'm very much enjoying capturing / editing and printing images at the level I've learned so far but a recent issue has niggled at my engineering brain .
I have both a Windows and Mac set up and edit / print from both through photoshop with reasonable success , but having watched a couple of videos about printing with Canon professional print layout I thought it might be worth another look ( I did download it when I purchased the printers but never used it ) .
I selected a print to test out this add-0n program in photoshop but when I clicked Automate it was nowhere to be seen ! . Right or wrong I do allow Adobe to automatically update without me understanding the consequences ! !
So this is my question ( sorry for the drivel ) have you ever thought about covering the issue that occurs when Adobe Photoshop updates but does not bring across the previously downloaded software ? .
With loads of messing about I've now fixed this ( on my Mac M1 ) , for most this might be quite a simple fix but when I looked online the issue wasn't explained for the likes of me HeHe .
IIRC, when installing the Canon software, it should detect the presence of Photoshop and install it as a plugin.
Just download and re-install the latest version would be my suggestion...
I've not ever come across issues, but remember that I only ever test stuff like this as part of a printer review.
The problem with attempting to cover any of this stuff is that unless I see the problem, I cannot describe it or investigate any 'fix' - there are so many explanations/causes that nothing I could produce would be meaningful at all
Thanks for your reply , having taken in your knowledge over the last few years I should have realised you don't review software issues . I just thought , being a Mac user you might have been able to shed some light on the subject . Regards @@KeithCooper
Thanks - yes, but only if I've seen it myself [like the Mac AirPrint problem for printer setup] @@sawdoctor2737
Which one is good for photography photo ,dye ink or pigment ink based printer?
either
@@KeithCooper iam planing to buy a epson wf c679a which is a pigment ink with a resolution of 4800x1200 , is that fine for photography photos? Many thanks for your help
Can't say I'm afraid - I've never tested that model...
However, it's a basic 4 colour office printer not a photo printer.
Pigment or dye is pretty much an irrelevance
It might well be capable of reasonable photos on some papers with good icc profiles, but no-one is going to make those for you...
New subscriber!
Thanks
I was expecting some advice on printing banknotes. Seems like a no-brainer.
That's not in my 'free' videos... ;-)