The biggest advantage of having on offset sight is when you are trying to hunt for something in your LPVO at 10x or high magnification, you can just find it with your red dot and then transition to the lpvo and you are right on target. It makes it really fast to find small targets far away without having to throw your magnification lever.
@@printingwithpeek4897 Because he might be calling them buis just because they fold down. If he's using them for fast, in close sighting on the clock, they'll need to be up during normal use to be relevant.
@@printingwithpeek4897 nobody here even knows what cowitness means. All I know is that you just have to have them things sorta kinda on target and you effin let loose on them dogs tryna eat yo sheep thell be counting sheep for realsies you feel me?
I have a set of offset irons on my M&P 10 I use for deer hunting. I sight the irons in at 15 yds and use them should a deer walk under or within 15 yds of my stand. Much quicker and easier to make a close range shot than trying to fumble with zooming and aiming an optic. They fold out of the way when walking to/from the stand. Works great.
I strive to keep my carbines as slicked as I can. My preference is a true 1x variable scope with a functional reticle and a set of folding backups. God bless.
Not to be a contrarian… But I use offset sights (iron sights) and have no issue with them snagging. It comes down to a training issue. I spent eight years army, and served in combat in OEF. Everyone is different and that’s why there are so many products on the market… I don’t believe in “the way” only “a way”, and everyone has a different preference. Good video, it sparks a great conversation.
I put a 45 degree red dot on the left side of my paintball gun 20 years ago (i shoot mostly righty). My thinking was since I put a stock on it and it's hard to get a cheek weld with a mask, it went more where my eye would be. It worked pretty well for me
The iron sights are for back up In case the glass or optic fails in the heat of a moment. I doubt I'd have time to remove broken stuff while getting shot at. Keep irons. Optics and supply lines break.
I find that having an offset dot is very very easy to use. its not about close targets. Its also about sweeping to another target. So I have 2 targets at 300 yards. Its a lot easier to look through 6x and hit one target and then sweept to the other using 1x and pop back to 6x without using a throw lever.
@Chris Lowe yea dumbass.......because you increase you're silhouette on your x -/+ footprint. An RMR is inline with your optics and you aren't obstructed my your magazine on the bottom of your y axis with the footprint when presenting. You've never done a competent carbine course
My LPVO 1x6 with offset folding irons is fun when shooting back and forth a target at longer range at 6 power and then target at closer range with irons, easy and fast
Red dot offset on top of the scope suck for two reasons... 1)Breaking cheek off the rest. 2) You have an even bigger "height over bore offset" to deal with. 45° red dot or BUIS...It's faster to obtain sight picture and you keep cheek rest as an extra point of contact and control of the weapon AND you have a lower height over bore to account for when making close in shots. Which is perfect if you have a LPVO set at 3x or higher power, it's faster to flip to the 45° red dot to engage close and then back to the LPVO back out to distance, than trying to reach up and turn the optic power down and back up. Next, red dot on top takes damage in a dropped gun. If you are running a fixed mount and not a quick release and the optic glass is damaged or the optic fogs or anything that keeps you from looking through the optic, blocks you from using your BUIS if they are inline co witness.
One point in defense of offset irons: you can use them in 3 gun with a magnified optic and still be in tac ops division. Whereas an offset red dot would put you into open division.
Firstly, despite the button-down collar, Steve's got the freshest shirt today. Nice blue with bold yellow. Secondly, every notch on your rail should have at least one accessory on it.
Back in the dark ages the M1D sniper rifle and side-mounted Winchester 94 scopes were off-set. Then there are some editions of laser sights--laterally offset from the bore. Sights are usually vertically off-set. Worse--standard US Army M16 marksmanship training since at least the 1980's recommended canting the rifle when firing while wearing a field protective mask. So offset sights are another solution that creates additional problems.
It’s in those “dark age” examples you refer to it’s done for mechanical reasons. Both rifles you mention eject upwards, and in the case of the m1, also load vertically. In the case of the m16, the gas mask is larger than your face, thus you have to move your gun to make the setup work.
Thank you guys for covering it. I can see value if you have an offset red dot on an otherwise medium or longer optic set up. I am a big fan of etched reticle systems with BDC reticles too
I have a prism and do use the red dot on top. You’re right about cheek weld, but with a little practice I kind of figured out I could put the notch in my chin against the stock. Works pretty good for me but there are many good options for different people.
Can testify: I have an AR with an ACOG and canted irons. I was in the forests of North Carolina and it took a while to get a sight picture with my ACOG (4x). Canting the gun allowed me to get a sight picture so much easier. I had this same issue in the woods of NE Missouri with too much zoom.
I keep my LPVO at max power for distance and just roll over to the offset red dot for inside 50 yds. The B5 Systems stock makes this a perfect setup as I don't lose cheek weld when I transition. The transition is immediate. Best of both worlds.
Good to know. I have a 5-25×56 on my ar 10, and it's a real pain trying to dial the zoom down or up during deer season. Planning to do a 45° with a swamp fox 3 moa
I use iron offsets on the left/weak side as a back up for two reasons. One, they're non battery and I know they'll work anytime, anywhere. Second, I use the left side mount, so it puts the scope/flying brass out of my way. But like most things involving set ups. It's all what the shooter is comfortable with. I know some dang good shooters who like a red dot on the right side to maintain cheek weld and it works for them. Strokes and folks. Thanks for the great vids you guys make.
Running an ACOG 3.5 with an RMR top mounted on the ACOG: both are designed to run with both eyes opened. When engaging long range targets using the ACOG you can cant the rifle 45 degrees left or right depending on dominant eye and hand and if your setup is correct, the red dot superimposes in your field of view.
The best configuration that I have found considering weight as well is to use a primary arms three times along with the hollow sun 507 offset. It's light it's compact and it solves all the concerns that you may encounter
Tactical. My LPVO is zero'd at 100 yards to utilize the BDC reticle. My offset dot is zero'd at 50/200 for point and shoot and just about any range. The offset is quicker than the LPVO and most intances. The LPVO is more accurate. The bonus of the offset dot is if my LPVO were to fail, my offset is good to go.
@@leewilkinson6372this is obviously way to late, But in case anyone needs it- imagine your sight shoots a straight laser in front of it, your barrel- because of the nature of a barrel, shoots an arc. Because barrels are ALWAYS very slightly tilted up- the bullet has to go up in the arc up in order for it to go further before it reaches a point because after the apex- it will always go down If the apex is your barrel shooting straight- the bullet will only ever go down OKAY So- your sight goes straight, Your barrel shoots a bullet so it slightly arcs up Sight over bore is the point where those 2 imaginary lines meet. Assumably, with a center over sight, you have longer distances where they will run parallel. The point where the lines cross- that’s your zero This lets you calculate barrel drop and windage off of where your zero is With an offset sight, your sight line then will have to meet your bullet line at an angle, so the zero is much harder to find since it now has to made on a 3D axis instead of a 2D axis As well as the theory that canting your rifle doesn’t work, because the barrel is always tilted into the direction you’re canting it in. So if I cant my barrel to the right, my barrel is now pointing to 9 o clock instead of 12. It’s like micrometers of math, but it does affect shooting and with someone who doesn’t know how to properly utilize it, a canted shot would be significantly more unpredictable It’s also why when we have competition rifles, you have visible levels on the rifle.
I have to use offset irons as running in TacOps division for the rifle means you can only have one optic. They are good to go for quick transitions in closer ranges when turning down the zoom of the lpvo takes too much time. It’s added weight, a snag hazard, and sometimes takes too much space for its limited use, but I sadly have no choice lol
@@jonathansmith7306 Some do, though using a different sighting system is still quicker than flipping a magnifier. More so when the magnifiers, that are usually 3x which make it more difficult for 300m+, have considerably bad eye boxes and eye reliefs than LPVOs at 6-8x. 5x mags are considerably worse. Perhaps after some more recent updates and with changes in weight to where LPVOs would weigh more than them again, they can see a resurgence.
There’s a great discussion on Garand Thumb’s site with Kevin Owens about how they set up their guns. I’m not an expert, but their discussion about also using the offset for target acquisition makes a lot of sense.
I mean, yea, if you don't shoot in doorways or narrow corridors. They're also not good for bullet drop compensation because they're meant to be on a specific heighted rail
I’ve used my offset sights quite practically while coyote hunting; I run a 223 Rem with a 4-12x scope. I got startled by a coyote at maybe 30-35 feet and was able to take a quick shot only due to my offset sights. As a LEO offsets were just a practice backup that is quite quick; though we also use co-witnessed pop up sights. Outside of drills these don’t get used as outside of magnified optics there isn’t much need as 1x sights rarely ever go down and when they do your pop-ups are there and don’t require a weapon roll.
Here in south Texas my hog gun is a aero M5 in .308, my optic is a 4-16 power. But I use offset iron sights just in case I jump something with in 50 yards or so.. works great..
I run a low pro 45 offset with a 1.5 inch dovetail riser mount. The reason i opted to do this on my AR's come down to ergonomics. I am 6'5" 270 pounds. I can not comfortably get a picture without using a ridiculous riser over bore. It takes me out of a natural aggressive pose and leaves more meat for the person shooting back. I like my brain as low as possible in reference to my bore. When i seat in the pocket of my shoulder and seat my cheek as a much larger than average guy ny eye always immediately gets a crisp view at about 3.5 eye relief. I run flip up irons over my bore which puts the irons tightly tucked next to my optic. The transition is measured in milliseconds. Another plus i have discovered is when shooting with both my eyes open scanning im not getting any blind spots because of the overlay of my vision across my nose. My right eye is open to scan slightly left of center and open to the right with irons. A subtle adjustment puts me back into my scope with the 3.5 eye relief on my right eye i maintain center to righ while my left is able to scan. Using the low pro 45 with 1.5 in dove tail mount then irons over bore. You end up with a really tight set up, no vision obstruction and no snagging of any type. Im fairly new to AR platforms but not rifles as a whole. I had feal problems with proper ergonomics and mechanics at first. I asked several fellas i knew that setved and a couple demolition experts and they treated me as if i was commiting blasphemy. The difference was the half dozen fellas i asked ranged in overall height of me 5-10 inches. Now that ice done it im never going back i love the set up. The adjustments required are mental for me and very straight forward. Having my 3-9 slightly off bore has not hindered me in hitting my target. It becomes a natural compensation quite easily but i would t say im even canting my rifle but slightly when i transition between. If you're a big guy give it a try it beats hanging your brain above the bore several inches or becoming a contortionist. It is a super smoth natural way to address a very real issue not experienced by everyone.
I run offsets, but it is on an MCS magfed paintball marker. The safety mask prevents a good cheekweld down the spine, but a scope in an offset set-up, rolled 45 degrees to keep it aligned to vertical, lets me do good scope shots out to 150 yds, which is pretty good for something meant for sub 100 yd shots. I have iron sights on the spine and roll the marker to shoot as if they were offset to the outboard side. If it' wonky and it works, it still works.
Yep, I have an AR-10 with a Vortex 5-25x50 scope mounted to it. At the same time, I'm old school Army and believe no weapon is complete w/o iron sights. Therefore I have 45° off set iron sights mounted to it as well. They don’t snag on anything, with a little training they are easy to use, and although I didn’t build that gun for CQB, I am more prepared for an unexpected turn of events with irons than I would be if I didn't have them.
I use an offset red dot on my AR10. The primary optic on it is a 3-12x scope, and the red dot really provides a lot of capability. The transition is easy and smooth and it is accurate. I used to have a LPVO with a 1x capability, and I felt stupid for having the red dot. But now that I have a higher magnification optic, it finally makes sense. Commenting on a 2 year old video HOOOO!
Personal opinion : I've never understood the use of an lpvo in conj with an offset, esp one thats $$$! I run a 2-10 for that reason- i run it as TWO individuals vs two options. Like the guest on BTO podcast from Ridgeline defense have described - it's an extremely rare occasion when someone goes to their offset naturally when engaging closer targets
I think iron sights with a red 1"light gathering optical front sight and a rear ring mounted on top of the scope is the more natural back up sight. Same focal length as a short sighted rifle or a long pistol and since we're talking under 50 yards for this it's a faster to aquire view with both eyes open shot..
I like offset irons over red dots for a vehicle gun. Mainly if the gun might need to go in and out of environments with huge temperature fluctuations. For example a heated car in the winter or an air-conditioned car in the summer. In situations like that an offset red dot or even cowitnessed sights won't help you. A good qd mount is an option but the optic could become usable in time. Personally if I'm taking that gun out of the car in those harsh temperatures I'd flip up the sights before I even pull the gun out of the car. However if you need to flip them up after you shoulder the gun a qd mount and fixed sights may be faster. But they aren't for everyone. They have serious drawbacks and flaws. But they do have their uses.
I use a 223 for woodchucks in my cornfield and sometimes you'll kick one up close by and seems to help for the 15 foot shot or quick fire when they already running if I didn't have time to pop them from far out with the 4 to 16 zoom on the scope
I wouldn't call the offset irons on my rifle backup sights but rather alternate sights. I've got a thermal scope that is difficult to use outside of shooting pests so my offsets get used very often to the point I might call them my primary sights.
Iron offsets for my race rifle. QD red dot and irons on top for my go to, (co witnessed although that’s just so I can check my irons without always removing the dot).
Running an exps3 on a riser w/ offset irons on 7in 300 blk. Haven't had any issues with snagging, but it's considerably slower to use when simulating the primary optic going down. The front offset sight helps with the c-clamp grip/pulling the gun into the shoulder pocket. This really is only possible with shorter weapons. I do plan on taking both the eotech and backup sights off and move them on to a 14.5 in the next year. Went with with the offset irons because of the exps3/riser combo sits too high for inline sights to be viewable through the optic. That and battery life. I don't want to pull the optic off when it's just a battery issue.
I also have a fixed power prism at 5x with a 1x on top... similar to the way an acog with RMR is set up.... it weighs less than an LPVO all together. put all the sights you want on your gun. all that matters is you can run it fast.
Old guys (no offense steve) are always good at the sly insult. "Cant it ..heroically" hahaha That's some top shelf snark man. Part of the reason why I love brownells channel. It's not just good for gun info. I'm still leaning toward reflex sights but I shoot pretty good with irons. And I got no problem with 45 offsets. Like ya said before: if ya practice with it, it works.
After watching vid. I tend to agree w everything Caleb said. All his points are valid, and I prefer a red dot to iron or flip ups anyways. I use a green dot personally to help w starburst from astigmatism (aging SUCKS). All my life I had better than 20/20 vision, to experience my decline in vision SUCKS but also took a great deal of getting used to. I am only just 51 now and intend to get lasik but until I do… it’s a need that I have to address w my choice of equipment. I don’t have an issue using iron sights but prefer the ease and speed of the green dot systems.
If you're running offset sights, iron or red dot, you are only "Tacticool". To prove this try moving through the bush that's dense and gets caught in everything as you move through it. For a local example have you tried scouting in and around a cornfield? There's enough to think about in your three-foot world without worrying about snagging gear and sights.
I run Sparrow Dynamic grips on my California featureless rifles, sometimes the stock or buffer tube plate pokes into the top of my thumb/wrist. It's actually more comfortable to use offset sights on one of those rifles because it brings you hand out from under the stock.
If you’re set up for right hand and need to shoot left, try just bumping the stock over to the left shoulder without taking your hand off fire control. It’s not ideal but it’s fast and accurate enough,
I will say that my favorite solution is using a bobro mount for my main optic, it allows me to mount the optic in front of the receiver without putting it on the handguard
When I was a motor officer I had an AR mounted on my motorcycle. It had a red dot on top, which made quick deployment with my helmet on difficult, and would have been much easier with an off-set setup
I only use my offset sights as backup irons. I don't run a q/d mount, so they're there in case my optic goes down. I just open my left eye when shooting nearby targets, as the reticle will still line up even if I cant get a sight picture with my right.
I'm eventually going to buy my own rifle and have been thinking about how to set it up. I've tried many setups and in terms of practicality and my location, offset sights just don't make much sense for me. My general end game plans for optics are: Red dot/holo + magnifier, or non variable sight in the 3x to 5x range + offset sights. Realistically in my environment, I wouldn't use the magnification that often so having a 3x+ as my main sight makes little sense. I can keep a red dot and just never buy a magnifier. Having a scope + offset sights is fast but the canted sights would just end up being my main sights in the long run.
I've got one upper with on the top, in-line BUIS. I have one with with a cheap red dot 45'ed (about to change out to a DeltaPoint that I already have, as soon as I find a mount for it. Hmmm...wonder what company would have a mount like I need??). And I have another upper with BUIS at a 45 degree. All of these ways seem to work fine---once I got them sighted in, that is.
I use offset iron sights to also fill the role of backup iron sights incase the lpvo goes down. The only difference to a flip up system is that you dont have to take the scope off to use it. Maybe red dots would be quicker in cqb. But the batteries and natural fragility make it a point of failure. So youll probably need BUIS anyways. Trading off snag hazard for reliability and affordability
Had a top mounted red dot on my M27. I never really used it, since indoors usually gets to the “point and shoot” distance, and outside the low magnification SDO worked fast enough. Looking back I wish I would’ve trained more to use it instinctively. I bought canted iron sights for a hunting rifle that only went down to 5x. The rear sight gets in the way of the charging handle, I never got them perfectly sighted in because they maxed out to a side, and I basically hate them. Do to the speed of deer and the need for a quick ethical shot, I plan on getting a top mounted red dot.
1. Redundancy 2. Offset sights, in conjunction with an LPVO, offers a close engagement sight with less parallax which translates to a sighting system that is easier to employ from unorthodox positions 3. Offset sights do not have the same height over bore considerations that a sight mounted on top of scope rings has Snagging can happen regardless of setup and at best can be trained for and accounted for. I don't think they are mandatory, but I wouldn't fault someone for running them if that is what their mission purpose for the rifle dictates.
Offset / piggybacks are great, but I definitely see them on some rifles that don’t need them. They are great for rifles that don’t have a 1x on the primary optic. I wouldn’t run one alongside an LPVO outside of competition. Optics going down is also somewhat overblown. It’s not actually that common. QD scope rings + conventional back up irons are better if you must. Basically: piggyback for nods, offset for an SPR or competition gun.
Caleb, you and Hop from TFBTV are on the same wavelength...he did an offset optic on his fans page today. He had the good point of the red dot on top of the scope/lpvo can help you dial in the area you're viewing if the field of view of the scope is restrictive. I think it is a bit much...but when it comes to AR's...have it your way. Just have a good sense of humor when people bust your chops about it. Merry Christmas to you all there at Brownell's!! 🎄🎅
At close range, 1-10 yards or so, a little practice you can look down the side of your rifle and put a well placed hole where it needs to be...center mass.
I prefer to just use standard flip up sights with qd mounts. Offset sights are useful for a fixed power optic, which I don’t use, or a high magnification optic, which I don’t use on short distances. That’s my rational, right or wrong.
If you put the red dot on the top of the scope, you can just rotate the gun to the side and put the dot in line with your non-dominant eye. This setup is ambidextrous. Are there many scopes that this doesn't work for? It works on my ACOG, at least. [Edit: you maintain your cheek weld as well]
Interesting... Does flipping the rifle change POI significantly? I would think that if you set the sight for 25 yds, and tilted right, you would be hitting significantly to the right for closet in, and to the left further out....then vice versa for tilting left. I'd think you would still lose cheekweld though as well.
This is something I’m going to have to try with my setup. I know it will to some extent mess with POI but in close quarters I don’t think it will matter too much. Good info.
I have them but to be honest my 6x scope may be blurry accross my cabin but it still works better than i thought. More of a backup if your scope fogs i guess
hard one to judge, due to the subjective nature of it. just going to come down to personal preference and application. pros and cons. I've never run offset, but have a mount with the intention of at least trying it (but my offset setup is much different than most too).
I feel like a piggy back mount on top of a magnified optic or an ACOG is the way to go, it is more practical and less of a snag hazard, and can also be used for passive night vision shooting
The main thing is having that red dot ready, so one thing that should be paramount is you have one with a "shake awake" feature, and have one that is on a quality 45 degree mount.
I like offset optics. I have one rifle set up with offset irons and a couple rifles with offset dots. My irons have a blitzkrieg chevron front post which really speeds up acquisition and aiming. Truth be told I pretty much leave my LPVOs set at 6x and use the offsets out to 100 yards.
Just a thought, if you figure a majority of your shooting will be cqb and distance a relatively small part of the time why not mount the red dot straight up and magnified optic offset? You could easily decide on a zero for the magnified optic that would reliably provide a fairly precise point blank like zero ( good for say 100+ yds - 400 yds) for those occasional times when you shoot that distance while having more time to take those shots. It's more of proportion, upright sight for a majority of your shooting, offset for the minority or exceptional shots.
Offset irons are the only way to go if you’ve got a one piece scope mount. My go-to setup has a one piece scope mount, can’t remove it unless you remove the charging handle and slide it off the rear of the receiver. The only way I’m going to be able to access BUIs is if they’re on the offset. Can’t believe y’all forgot to mention that!
I have yet to hear of anyone using an offset sight the way I do... I have an LPVO on my 15-22, zeroed at 25 yards. I have an offset reflex sight zeroed at 7. Height over bore may not be a big deal on human size targets, but on a squirrel it can be the difference between a clean kill, and shooting under it. Any thoughts?
I hog hunt with a thermal an hour before sunset to two hours after and have found the thermal in brushy woods to not be as advantageous as my standard scope while the sun is out. I’m planning to add an offset - most shots no more than 100 yards. I would appreciate any suggestions ( in SC, it is illegal to carry 2 rifles). Thx!
I have an offset RD set up for right hand, but if I switch shoulders and scope with my left eye my right eye is looking at the RD with almost no adjustment to cheek weld. Maybe have to rotate rifle left 3-4°
I'd just put the micro red dot on top the scope sure you are breaking a cheach weld but in cqb i doesn't matter as much and you can still use it to spot longe range targets swaping back to the scope.
I encountered a case for offset irons recently that you didn't mention here. On a recent range trip it was very hot and humid (Missouri) but my gun had been in my air conditioned vehicle on the drive there and my air conditioned house before that. When I got my gun out my red dot fogged quite thoroughly and it took several minutes for the optic to warm up enough that it wouldn't immediately fog again when I wiped the condensation off. For a range trip this was an inconvenience but for someone who uses their rifle for work not having back up, non-optical, sights would immediately make your rifle worse than sightless if you encountered conditions to cause this. For example, moving from an air conditioned interior to a hot and humid exterior OR moving from a cold and wintry exterior to a well heated interior. Obviously this wasn't a common occurrence in the Middle East and footage of destroyed Ukrainian cities suggests it's also uncommon there. I assume this is more likely to affect police in developed nations not at that time affected by war and only when the weather and circumstances conspire to make it happen.
I use a prism optic with a mounted red dot on top. I am cross eye dominant so I actual use the prism with my right and then cant it to the left to aim with my left eye
Folded back, my front 45 mbus pros sit below my light at 90 and mod button lite on the top rail, so zero snag factor (or no more than the light and button). Admittedly, the rear folded is close to the charging handle, making ambi pulls a little more difficult, but the charging handle is blocking all snag factors except the adjustment knob. Folded out, I still have a cheek weld and can transition rather quickly. But cost is definitely the biggest factor. A dot would be 2-4 times the cost of the sights. Plus, they are technically backup sights--since the front sight is on the rail--that I will use for practice but will stay tucked away until and unless I really need them. But to my last point, if you don't have an FSB, can you really called them "irons" without ultimately calling them BUIS? The front sight is on the handguard, and there's a reason we don't place/bridge our primary optics on the handguard rail. These 45s--and all other sights mounted on the handguard--are backups primarily (no irony intended, no pun intended either).
I was running a rmr offset on my main with a sig bravo 5x prism but I just put it on the top now to see how it works. Both are awesome and you can still can’t the gun a little when it is on top too get a better cheek weld
I just bought offset sights for my AR, because when I was out hunting in a heavy snow I pulled up on a buck and my scope lens were fogged. If I had them on them I would have been able to make the shot, instead I had to wipe my lens and missed my chance.
I bought offset sights for, (I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep them on my AR pistol or I'm going to switch the to my ksg, or my full sized AR) simply because I could and because they irritate my colleagues.
I added an offset reflex to my ar after I upgraded to a lpvo and the quick magnification change is very nice but I find it also lets people who wear glasses shoot my gun since they can’t use my primary optic. Imo add one if you have a spare red dot that doesn’t have a ton of height but it’s not worth buying a whole setup from scratch.
I use a 5x Prism (Steiner T-536 sight) on my PTR-91 and an offset red dot is beneficial for not only shooting close quarters, but getting a clean target acquisition at range then switch back to the magnified optic for a clean shot. Anyone who has shot at groups of wild hogs would know how beneficial that would be.
I agree with Caleb because I have the Midwest AND Magpul 45 degree offset irons. They do indeed get in the way of everything when mounting them. They do snag on flipping everything I took mine off because of that crap. So now I have 300+ dollars in irons I’ll never use.
I will say its easier to shoot "through" a fogged/fouled lense on a red dot than it is a scope. Which happens a lot when you leave the basement and use your rifle :-D I can't bring myself to do it on an 1x lpvo build... although i've needed it on more than one occasion.. but on a 2.5-10 or 3-9 etc oh my god yes.
The biggest advantage of having on offset sight is when you are trying to hunt for something in your LPVO at 10x or high magnification, you can just find it with your red dot and then transition to the lpvo and you are right on target. It makes it really fast to find small targets far away without having to throw your magnification lever.
Very true
Do it all the time. Second nature now
Glad you broght that up!
I use offset irons. To me, they are surprisingly intuitive after practice and I don't have to bother with co witnessing.
You don't have to cowitness in general. If they're backup iron sights, why are they up to begin with?
I use an offset micro-dot, but yeah - same.
@@printingwithpeek4897
Because he might be calling them buis just because they fold down. If he's using them for fast, in close sighting on the clock, they'll need to be up during normal use to be relevant.
@CtrlAltRetreat yes, so then why is he using Iron sights.
@@printingwithpeek4897 nobody here even knows what cowitness means. All I know is that you just have to have them things sorta kinda on target and you effin let loose on them dogs tryna eat yo sheep thell be counting sheep for realsies you feel me?
I have a set of offset irons on my M&P 10 I use for deer hunting. I sight the irons in at 15 yds and use them should a deer walk under or within 15 yds of my stand. Much quicker and easier to make a close range shot than trying to fumble with zooming and aiming an optic. They fold out of the way when walking to/from the stand. Works great.
I strive to keep my carbines as slicked as I can. My preference is a true 1x variable scope with a functional reticle and a set of folding backups.
God bless.
Not to be a contrarian… But I use offset sights (iron sights) and have no issue with them snagging. It comes down to a training issue. I spent eight years army, and served in combat in OEF.
Everyone is different and that’s why there are so many products on the market… I don’t believe in “the way” only “a way”, and everyone has a different preference.
Good video, it sparks a great conversation.
I put a 45 degree red dot on the left side of my paintball gun 20 years ago (i shoot mostly righty). My thinking was since I put a stock on it and it's hard to get a cheek weld with a mask, it went more where my eye would be. It worked pretty well for me
I use offset irons with my AR-10 with a 24 inch barrel, as I dont want to remove the 5-20x scope in order to use them.
Works good for my needs.
The iron sights are for back up In case the glass or optic fails in the heat of a moment. I doubt I'd have time to remove broken stuff while getting shot at. Keep irons. Optics and supply lines break.
I find that having an offset dot is very very easy to use. its not about close targets. Its also about sweeping to another target. So I have 2 targets at 300 yards. Its a lot easier to look through 6x and hit one target and then sweept to the other using 1x and pop back to 6x without using a throw lever.
Or......hear me out.....put a red dot on top of your optic. You create the lowest silhouette of yourself and no cheekweld shifting. Offsets are dumb
@@printingwithpeek4897 How are you not shifting your cheek weld lifting up to look over your scope? Lowest silhouette? LOL!!!
@Chris Lowe yea dumbass.......because you increase you're silhouette on your x -/+ footprint. An RMR is inline with your optics and you aren't obstructed my your magazine on the bottom of your y axis with the footprint when presenting. You've never done a competent carbine course
My LPVO 1x6 with offset folding irons is fun when shooting back and forth a target at longer range at 6 power and then target at closer range with irons, easy and fast
Red dot offset on top of the scope suck for two reasons...
1)Breaking cheek off the rest.
2) You have an even bigger "height over bore offset" to deal with.
45° red dot or BUIS...It's faster to obtain sight picture and you keep cheek rest as an extra point of contact and control of the weapon AND you have a lower height over bore to account for when making close in shots. Which is perfect if you have a LPVO set at 3x or higher power, it's faster to flip to the 45° red dot to engage close and then back to the LPVO back out to distance, than trying to reach up and turn the optic power down and back up.
Next, red dot on top takes damage in a dropped gun. If you are running a fixed mount and not a quick release and the optic glass is damaged or the optic fogs or anything that keeps you from looking through the optic, blocks you from using your BUIS if they are inline co witness.
One point in defense of offset irons: you can use them in 3 gun with a magnified optic and still be in tac ops division. Whereas an offset red dot would put you into open division.
Firstly, despite the button-down collar, Steve's got the freshest shirt today. Nice blue with bold yellow.
Secondly, every notch on your rail should have at least one accessory on it.
That’s right! Every. Single. Notch. No excuses and no exceptions. 😆
Back in the dark ages the M1D sniper rifle and side-mounted Winchester 94 scopes were off-set. Then there are some editions of laser sights--laterally offset from the bore. Sights are usually vertically off-set.
Worse--standard US Army M16 marksmanship training since at least the 1980's recommended canting the rifle when firing while wearing a field protective mask.
So offset sights are another solution that creates additional problems.
It’s in those “dark age” examples you refer to it’s done for mechanical reasons. Both rifles you mention eject upwards, and in the case of the m1, also load vertically.
In the case of the m16, the gas mask is larger than your face, thus you have to move your gun to make the setup work.
Thank you guys for covering it. I can see value if you have an offset red dot on an otherwise medium or longer optic set up. I am a big fan of etched reticle systems with BDC reticles too
I have a prism and do use the red dot on top. You’re right about cheek weld, but with a little practice I kind of figured out I could put the notch in my chin against the stock. Works pretty good for me but there are many good options for different people.
Can testify: I have an AR with an ACOG and canted irons. I was in the forests of North Carolina and it took a while to get a sight picture with my ACOG (4x). Canting the gun allowed me to get a sight picture so much easier. I had this same issue in the woods of NE Missouri with too much zoom.
I keep my LPVO at max power for distance and just roll over to the offset red dot for inside 50 yds. The B5 Systems stock makes this a perfect setup as I don't lose cheek weld when I transition. The transition is immediate. Best of both worlds.
Good to know. I have a 5-25×56 on my ar 10, and it's a real pain trying to dial the zoom down or up during deer season. Planning to do a 45° with a swamp fox 3 moa
I wish I had a dad like Steve.
You are a lucky kid Caleb to have a dad like that.
I use iron offsets on the left/weak side as a back up for two reasons. One, they're non battery and I know they'll work anytime, anywhere. Second, I use the left side mount, so it puts the scope/flying brass out of my way. But like most things involving set ups. It's all what the shooter is comfortable with. I know some dang good shooters who like a red dot on the right side to maintain cheek weld and it works for them. Strokes and folks. Thanks for the great vids you guys make.
Running an ACOG 3.5 with an RMR top mounted on the ACOG: both are designed to run with both eyes opened. When engaging long range targets using the ACOG you can cant the rifle 45 degrees left or right depending on dominant eye and hand and if your setup is correct, the red dot superimposes in your field of view.
The best configuration that I have found considering weight as well is to use a primary arms three times along with the hollow sun 507 offset. It's light it's compact and it solves all the concerns that you may encounter
Orrre hear me out........put the holosun on tip of the primary arms......
Tactical. My LPVO is zero'd at 100 yards to utilize the BDC reticle. My offset dot is zero'd at 50/200 for point and shoot and just about any range. The offset is quicker than the LPVO and most intances. The LPVO is more accurate. The bonus of the offset dot is if my LPVO were to fail, my offset is good to go.
Learn sight over bore principals.
@@thefrogking481 could you tell me roughly what this means? Apologies, unfamiliar with the phrase.
@@leewilkinson6372this is obviously way to late,
But in case anyone needs it- imagine your sight shoots a straight laser in front of it,
your barrel- because of the nature of a barrel, shoots an arc. Because barrels are ALWAYS very slightly tilted up- the bullet has to go up in the arc up in order for it to go further before it reaches a point because after the apex- it will always go down
If the apex is your barrel shooting straight- the bullet will only ever go down
OKAY
So- your sight goes straight,
Your barrel shoots a bullet so it slightly arcs up
Sight over bore is the point where those 2 imaginary lines meet. Assumably, with a center over sight, you have longer distances where they will run parallel.
The point where the lines cross- that’s your zero
This lets you calculate barrel drop and windage off of where your zero is
With an offset sight, your sight line then will have to meet your bullet line at an angle, so the zero is much harder to find since it now has to made on a 3D axis instead of a 2D axis
As well as the theory that canting your rifle doesn’t work, because the barrel is always tilted into the direction you’re canting it in. So if I cant my barrel to the right, my barrel is now pointing to 9 o clock instead of 12.
It’s like micrometers of math, but it does affect shooting and with someone who doesn’t know how to properly utilize it, a canted shot would be significantly more unpredictable
It’s also why when we have competition rifles, you have visible levels on the rifle.
I have to use offset irons as running in TacOps division for the rifle means you can only have one optic. They are good to go for quick transitions in closer ranges when turning down the zoom of the lpvo takes too much time.
It’s added weight, a snag hazard, and sometimes takes too much space for its limited use, but I sadly have no choice lol
Or use a red dot+magnifier
@@jonathansmith7306 Some do, though using a different sighting system is still quicker than flipping a magnifier. More so when the magnifiers, that are usually 3x which make it more difficult for 300m+, have considerably bad eye boxes and eye reliefs than LPVOs at 6-8x. 5x mags are considerably worse. Perhaps after some more recent updates and with changes in weight to where LPVOs would weigh more than them again, they can see a resurgence.
There’s a great discussion on Garand Thumb’s site with Kevin Owens about how they set up their guns. I’m not an expert, but their discussion about also using the offset for target acquisition makes a lot of sense.
Was just gonna say, check out the Irish guy on the thumb
I mean, yea, if you don't shoot in doorways or narrow corridors. They're also not good for bullet drop compensation because they're meant to be on a specific heighted rail
I’ve used my offset sights quite practically while coyote hunting; I run a 223 Rem with a 4-12x scope. I got startled by a coyote at maybe 30-35 feet and was able to take a quick shot only due to my offset sights. As a LEO offsets were just a practice backup that is quite quick; though we also use co-witnessed pop up sights. Outside of drills these don’t get used as outside of magnified optics there isn’t much need as 1x sights rarely ever go down and when they do your pop-ups are there and don’t require a weapon roll.
Red Dot and irons co-witness. That good for the range/distance I mess around at.
Here in south Texas my hog gun is a aero M5 in .308, my optic is a 4-16 power. But I use offset iron sights just in case I jump something with in 50 yards or so.. works great..
I run a low pro 45 offset with a 1.5 inch dovetail riser mount. The reason i opted to do this on my AR's come down to ergonomics. I am 6'5" 270 pounds. I can not comfortably get a picture without using a ridiculous riser over bore. It takes me out of a natural aggressive pose and leaves more meat for the person shooting back. I like my brain as low as possible in reference to my bore. When i seat in the pocket of my shoulder and seat my cheek as a much larger than average guy ny eye always immediately gets a crisp view at about 3.5 eye relief. I run flip up irons over my bore which puts the irons tightly tucked next to my optic. The transition is measured in milliseconds. Another plus i have discovered is when shooting with both my eyes open scanning im not getting any blind spots because of the overlay of my vision across my nose. My right eye is open to scan slightly left of center and open to the right with irons. A subtle adjustment puts me back into my scope with the 3.5 eye relief on my right eye i maintain center to righ while my left is able to scan. Using the low pro 45 with 1.5 in dove tail mount then irons over bore. You end up with a really tight set up, no vision obstruction and no snagging of any type. Im fairly new to AR platforms but not rifles as a whole. I had feal problems with proper ergonomics and mechanics at first. I asked several fellas i knew that setved and a couple demolition experts and they treated me as if i was commiting blasphemy. The difference was the half dozen fellas i asked ranged in overall height of me 5-10 inches. Now that ice done it im never going back i love the set up. The adjustments required are mental for me and very straight forward. Having my 3-9 slightly off bore has not hindered me in hitting my target. It becomes a natural compensation quite easily but i would t say im even canting my rifle but slightly when i transition between. If you're a big guy give it a try it beats hanging your brain above the bore several inches or becoming a contortionist. It is a super smoth natural way to address a very real issue not experienced by everyone.
For 3-gun, hitting a 200 yard target and transiting to 25 yard is faster and easier with offset sights. Iron sights since only one optic is allowed.
I run offsets, but it is on an MCS magfed paintball marker. The safety mask prevents a good cheekweld down the spine, but a scope in an offset set-up, rolled 45 degrees to keep it aligned to vertical, lets me do good scope shots out to 150 yds, which is pretty good for something meant for sub 100 yd shots. I have iron sights on the spine and roll the marker to shoot as if they were offset to the outboard side. If it' wonky and it works, it still works.
Yep, I have an AR-10 with a Vortex 5-25x50 scope mounted to it. At the same time, I'm old school Army and believe no weapon is complete w/o iron sights. Therefore I have 45° off set iron sights mounted to it as well. They don’t snag on anything, with a little training they are easy to use, and although I didn’t build that gun for CQB, I am more prepared for an unexpected turn of events with irons than I would be if I didn't have them.
I use an offset red dot on my AR10. The primary optic on it is a 3-12x scope, and the red dot really provides a lot of capability. The transition is easy and smooth and it is accurate. I used to have a LPVO with a 1x capability, and I felt stupid for having the red dot. But now that I have a higher magnification optic, it finally makes sense.
Commenting on a 2 year old video HOOOO!
Put your LPVO on QD's. When it goes down pop it off and flip up the Troy Battle Sights!
You pick up a bit of fov/situational awareness in CQB when using offset sights in conjunction with a LPVO.
Personal opinion : I've never understood the use of an lpvo in conj with an offset, esp one thats $$$! I run a 2-10 for that reason- i run it as TWO individuals vs two options. Like the guest on BTO podcast from Ridgeline defense have described - it's an extremely rare occasion when someone goes to their offset naturally when engaging closer targets
I think iron sights with a red 1"light gathering optical front sight and a rear ring mounted on top of the scope is the more natural back up sight. Same focal length as a short sighted rifle or a long pistol and since we're talking under 50 yards for this it's a faster to aquire view with both eyes open shot..
I like offset irons over red dots for a vehicle gun. Mainly if the gun might need to go in and out of environments with huge temperature fluctuations. For example a heated car in the winter or an air-conditioned car in the summer. In situations like that an offset red dot or even cowitnessed sights won't help you. A good qd mount is an option but the optic could become usable in time.
Personally if I'm taking that gun out of the car in those harsh temperatures I'd flip up the sights before I even pull the gun out of the car. However if you need to flip them up after you shoulder the gun a qd mount and fixed sights may be faster.
But they aren't for everyone. They have serious drawbacks and flaws. But they do have their uses.
I use a 223 for woodchucks in my cornfield and sometimes you'll kick one up close by and seems to help for the 15 foot shot or quick fire when they already running if I didn't have time to pop them from far out with the 4 to 16 zoom on the scope
Tell us what you think of bayonets
🤣
They're a snag hazard.
They're great for repelling cavalry charges!
intimidation...
Great for 3 things (when fixed to the rifle)
Taking and transporting prisoners.
Riot control.
When youre desperate.
I wouldn't call the offset irons on my rifle backup sights but rather alternate sights. I've got a thermal scope that is difficult to use outside of shooting pests so my offsets get used very often to the point I might call them my primary sights.
Iron offsets for my race rifle. QD red dot and irons on top for my go to, (co witnessed although that’s just so I can check my irons without always removing the dot).
Running an exps3 on a riser w/ offset irons on 7in 300 blk. Haven't had any issues with snagging, but it's considerably slower to use when simulating the primary optic going down. The front offset sight helps with the c-clamp grip/pulling the gun into the shoulder pocket. This really is only possible with shorter weapons. I do plan on taking both the eotech and backup sights off and move them on to a 14.5 in the next year. Went with with the offset irons because of the exps3/riser combo sits too high for inline sights to be viewable through the optic. That and battery life. I don't want to pull the optic off when it's just a battery issue.
How does the EXPS feel on a riser? Due to the built-in mount, I’m assuming with a riser it has to be 2”+, which sounds pretty dang tall.
@grahamhawes7089 I like it alot. 2.26 is the height. No complaints so far through 1k rounds
I also have a fixed power prism at 5x with a 1x on top... similar to the way an acog with RMR is set up.... it weighs less than an LPVO all together. put all the sights you want on your gun. all that matters is you can run it fast.
Old guys (no offense steve) are always good at the sly insult.
"Cant it ..heroically" hahaha
That's some top shelf snark man. Part of the reason why I love brownells channel.
It's not just good for gun info.
I'm still leaning toward reflex sights but I shoot pretty good with irons. And I got no problem with 45 offsets. Like ya said before: if ya practice with it, it works.
After watching vid. I tend to agree w everything Caleb said. All his points are valid, and I prefer a red dot to iron or flip ups anyways. I use a green dot personally to help w starburst from astigmatism (aging SUCKS). All my life I had better than 20/20 vision, to experience my decline in vision SUCKS but also took a great deal of getting used to.
I am only just 51 now and intend to get lasik but until I do… it’s a need that I have to address w my choice of equipment. I don’t have an issue using iron sights but prefer the ease and speed of the green dot systems.
If you're running offset sights, iron or red dot, you are only "Tacticool". To prove this try moving through the bush that's dense and gets caught in everything as you move through it. For a local example have you tried scouting in and around a cornfield? There's enough to think about in your three-foot world without worrying about snagging gear and sights.
I don’t understand having an LPVO and an offset sight. The entire point of a 1x scope is so you don’t need a red dot.
I run Sparrow Dynamic grips on my California featureless rifles, sometimes the stock or buffer tube plate pokes into the top of my thumb/wrist.
It's actually more comfortable to use offset sights on one of those rifles because it brings you hand out from under the stock.
If you’re set up for right hand and need to shoot left, try just bumping the stock over to the left shoulder without taking your hand off fire control. It’s not ideal but it’s fast and accurate enough,
I will say that my favorite solution is using a bobro mount for my main optic, it allows me to mount the optic in front of the receiver without putting it on the handguard
Offset iron sights won't snag if they're flip-up sights. My only complaint is finding ones made for lefties.
For me, it's flip up sights with a low power scope in a QD mount.
When I was a motor officer I had an AR mounted on my motorcycle. It had a red dot on top, which made quick deployment with my helmet on difficult, and would have been much easier with an off-set setup
A very high mount would probably work
@@Justin-rq6kf 1.93, lower 1/3rd, etc
I only use my offset sights as backup irons. I don't run a q/d mount, so they're there in case my optic goes down. I just open my left eye when shooting nearby targets, as the reticle will still line up even if I cant get a sight picture with my right.
I have 3 sights on mine: scope, 45 reflex, and 45 irons on other side. I also keep a set in my pocket and 1 in the truck.
I'm eventually going to buy my own rifle and have been thinking about how to set it up. I've tried many setups and in terms of practicality and my location, offset sights just don't make much sense for me.
My general end game plans for optics are: Red dot/holo + magnifier, or non variable sight in the 3x to 5x range + offset sights. Realistically in my environment, I wouldn't use the magnification that often so having a 3x+ as my main sight makes little sense. I can keep a red dot and just never buy a magnifier. Having a scope + offset sights is fast but the canted sights would just end up being my main sights in the long run.
My Burris TAC 30 has the red dot mounted on top of the scope. Impossibly faster to move between the optic options. Oh yeah, it’s also neat as a pin.
I've got one upper with on the top, in-line BUIS. I have one with with a cheap red dot 45'ed (about to change out to a DeltaPoint that I already have, as soon as I find a mount for it. Hmmm...wonder what company would have a mount like I need??). And I have another upper with BUIS at a 45 degree. All of these ways seem to work fine---once I got them sighted in, that is.
I wonder how many people have a cant/bubble level and have some type of BUIS?
LPVO , offset irons crew checking in. The snag is minimal imo , and transition into the offset is much more intuitive than one might think.
Mine wouldn’t adjust far enough during sighting in and I’ve never bothered to try again.
I use offset iron sights to also fill the role of backup iron sights incase the lpvo goes down. The only difference to a flip up system is that you dont have to take the scope off to use it.
Maybe red dots would be quicker in cqb. But the batteries and natural fragility make it a point of failure. So youll probably need BUIS anyways.
Trading off snag hazard for reliability and affordability
Had a top mounted red dot on my M27. I never really used it, since indoors usually gets to the “point and shoot” distance, and outside the low magnification SDO worked fast enough. Looking back I wish I would’ve trained more to use it instinctively. I bought canted iron sights for a hunting rifle that only went down to 5x. The rear sight gets in the way of the charging handle, I never got them perfectly sighted in because they maxed out to a side, and I basically hate them. Do to the speed of deer and the need for a quick ethical shot, I plan on getting a top mounted red dot.
By ethical, I’m looking for meat savings. If I’m lucky it’ll be double lung and I get to eat the heart.
I have offset mbus on my ar10 because of my 4-12 and they're cool
1. Redundancy
2. Offset sights, in conjunction with an LPVO, offers a close engagement sight with less parallax which translates to a sighting system that is easier to employ from unorthodox positions
3. Offset sights do not have the same height over bore considerations that a sight mounted on top of scope rings has
Snagging can happen regardless of setup and at best can be trained for and accounted for. I don't think they are mandatory, but I wouldn't fault someone for running them if that is what their mission purpose for the rifle dictates.
Offset / piggybacks are great, but I definitely see them on some rifles that don’t need them.
They are great for rifles that don’t have a 1x on the primary optic. I wouldn’t run one alongside an LPVO outside of competition.
Optics going down is also somewhat overblown. It’s not actually that common. QD scope rings + conventional back up irons are better if you must.
Basically: piggyback for nods, offset for an SPR or competition gun.
You don't have to break cheek weld to use piggyback dots. You rotate the rifle and it lines up with your left eye, or right eye if you're left handed.
Caleb, you and Hop from TFBTV are on the same wavelength...he did an offset optic on his fans page today. He had the good point of the red dot on top of the scope/lpvo can help you dial in the area you're viewing if the field of view of the scope is restrictive. I think it is a bit much...but when it comes to AR's...have it your way. Just have a good sense of humor when people bust your chops about it. Merry Christmas to you all there at Brownell's!! 🎄🎅
I think offset sights are very useful in my opinion I run my offset irons no problem they should not get tangled if u keep them down when not using
At close range, 1-10 yards or so, a little practice you can look down the side of your rifle and put a well placed hole where it needs to be...center mass.
I prefer to just use standard flip up sights with qd mounts. Offset sights are useful for a fixed power optic, which I don’t use, or a high magnification optic, which I don’t use on short distances. That’s my rational, right or wrong.
I have a 1-8 Primary Arms LPVO with Troy Industries 45° offset collapsible irons. It works for me.
In some instances, an offset red dot affords 3 levels of redundancy: 1) primary optic; 2) offset sight; 3) flip up sights on the rail
Offset Irons for an LPVO (or a qd mount and backup irons, and Offset red dot for higher powered scopes.
I LOVE my offset irons! No issues here.
If you put the red dot on the top of the scope, you can just rotate the gun to the side and put the dot in line with your non-dominant eye. This setup is ambidextrous. Are there many scopes that this doesn't work for? It works on my ACOG, at least. [Edit: you maintain your cheek weld as well]
Interesting...
Does flipping the rifle change POI significantly? I would think that if you set the sight for 25 yds, and tilted right, you would be hitting significantly to the right for closet in, and to the left further out....then vice versa for tilting left.
I'd think you would still lose cheekweld though as well.
What he said
This is something I’m going to have to try with my setup. I know it will to some extent mess with POI but in close quarters I don’t think it will matter too much. Good info.
I have them but to be honest my 6x scope may be blurry accross my cabin but it still works better than i thought. More of a backup if your scope fogs i guess
hard one to judge, due to the subjective nature of it. just going to come down to personal preference and application. pros and cons. I've never run offset, but have a mount with the intention of at least trying it (but my offset setup is much different than most too).
I feel like a piggy back mount on top of a magnified optic or an ACOG is the way to go, it is more practical and less of a snag hazard, and can also be used for passive night vision shooting
The height over bore is a major factor with that set up
The main thing is having that red dot ready, so one thing that should be paramount is you have one with a "shake awake" feature, and have one that is on a quality 45 degree mount.
I like offset optics. I have one rifle set up with offset irons and a couple rifles with offset dots. My irons have a blitzkrieg chevron front post which really speeds up acquisition and aiming. Truth be told I pretty much leave my LPVOs set at 6x and use the offsets out to 100 yards.
Just a thought, if you figure a majority of your shooting will be cqb and distance a relatively small part of the time why not mount the red dot straight up and magnified optic offset? You could easily decide on a zero for the magnified optic that would reliably provide a fairly precise point blank like zero ( good for say 100+ yds - 400 yds) for those occasional times when you shoot that distance while having more time to take those shots. It's more of proportion, upright sight for a majority of your shooting, offset for the minority or exceptional shots.
The iron sites are the only thing to use for mechanical issue with a red dot or rain or mud
Offset irons are the only way to go if you’ve got a one piece scope mount. My go-to setup has a one piece scope mount, can’t remove it unless you remove the charging handle and slide it off the rear of the receiver. The only way I’m going to be able to access BUIs is if they’re on the offset. Can’t believe y’all forgot to mention that!
I have yet to hear of anyone using an offset sight the way I do... I have an LPVO on my 15-22, zeroed at 25 yards. I have an offset reflex sight zeroed at 7. Height over bore may not be a big deal on human size targets, but on a squirrel it can be the difference between a clean kill, and shooting under it. Any thoughts?
I hog hunt with a thermal an hour before sunset to two hours after and have found the thermal in brushy woods to not be as advantageous as my standard scope while the sun is out. I’m planning to add an offset - most shots no more than 100 yards. I would appreciate any suggestions ( in SC, it is illegal to carry 2 rifles). Thx!
I have an offset RD set up for right hand, but if I switch shoulders and scope with my left eye my right eye is looking at the RD with almost no adjustment to cheek weld. Maybe have to rotate rifle left 3-4°
I'd just put the micro red dot on top the scope sure you are breaking a cheach weld but in cqb i doesn't matter as much and you can still use it to spot longe range targets swaping back to the scope.
I encountered a case for offset irons recently that you didn't mention here. On a recent range trip it was very hot and humid (Missouri) but my gun had been in my air conditioned vehicle on the drive there and my air conditioned house before that. When I got my gun out my red dot fogged quite thoroughly and it took several minutes for the optic to warm up enough that it wouldn't immediately fog again when I wiped the condensation off. For a range trip this was an inconvenience but for someone who uses their rifle for work not having back up, non-optical, sights would immediately make your rifle worse than sightless if you encountered conditions to cause this. For example, moving from an air conditioned interior to a hot and humid exterior OR moving from a cold and wintry exterior to a well heated interior. Obviously this wasn't a common occurrence in the Middle East and footage of destroyed Ukrainian cities suggests it's also uncommon there. I assume this is more likely to affect police in developed nations not at that time affected by war and only when the weather and circumstances conspire to make it happen.
I use a prism optic with a mounted red dot on top. I am cross eye dominant so I actual use the prism with my right and then cant it to the left to aim with my left eye
Folded back, my front 45 mbus pros sit below my light at 90 and mod button lite on the top rail, so zero snag factor (or no more than the light and button). Admittedly, the rear folded is close to the charging handle, making ambi pulls a little more difficult, but the charging handle is blocking all snag factors except the adjustment knob. Folded out, I still have a cheek weld and can transition rather quickly. But cost is definitely the biggest factor. A dot would be 2-4 times the cost of the sights. Plus, they are technically backup sights--since the front sight is on the rail--that I will use for practice but will stay tucked away until and unless I really need them.
But to my last point, if you don't have an FSB, can you really called them "irons" without ultimately calling them BUIS? The front sight is on the handguard, and there's a reason we don't place/bridge our primary optics on the handguard rail. These 45s--and all other sights mounted on the handguard--are backups primarily (no irony intended, no pun intended either).
I was running a rmr offset on my main with a sig bravo 5x prism but I just put it on the top now to see how it works. Both are awesome and you can still can’t the gun a little when it is on top too get a better cheek weld
I just bought offset sights for my AR, because when I was out hunting in a heavy snow I pulled up on a buck and my scope lens were fogged. If I had them on them I would have been able to make the shot, instead I had to wipe my lens and missed my chance.
I bought offset sights for, (I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep them on my AR pistol or I'm going to switch the to my ksg, or my full sized AR) simply because I could and because they irritate my colleagues.
I added an offset reflex to my ar after I upgraded to a lpvo and the quick magnification change is very nice but I find it also lets people who wear glasses shoot my gun since they can’t use my primary optic. Imo add one if you have a spare red dot that doesn’t have a ton of height but it’s not worth buying a whole setup from scratch.
Thermal scope + red dot offset. Because I don't want to have to ask the chupacabra or big foot to stop charging so I can adjust focus.
I use a 5x Prism (Steiner T-536 sight) on my PTR-91 and an offset red dot is beneficial for not only shooting close quarters, but getting a clean target acquisition at range then switch back to the magnified optic for a clean shot. Anyone who has shot at groups of wild hogs would know how beneficial that would be.
I agree with Caleb because I have the Midwest AND Magpul 45 degree offset irons. They do indeed get in the way of everything when mounting them. They do snag on flipping everything I took mine off because of that crap. So now I have 300+ dollars in irons I’ll never use.
I will say its easier to shoot "through" a fogged/fouled lense on a red dot than it is a scope. Which happens a lot when you leave the basement and use your rifle :-D
I can't bring myself to do it on an 1x lpvo build... although i've needed it on more than one occasion.. but on a 2.5-10 or 3-9 etc oh my god yes.