One of my viewers commented with this link, showing his cost calculator. It's pretty well done, so I wanted to share it with everybody. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Spmt48UeZVXWuo4s33T4fCZak5YroJ5NMIyM3Z7V1iQ/edit?usp=sharing
Can’t believe I stumbled upon your channel just browsing stuff preparing for my start in general aviation. And I’m so happy that I did! You’re providing a ton of info that helps me plan for my future!
@@MyTimeToFly Bindery, my Dad, Tim worked in prepress. You might know me as Chuck. I worked more with your wife than you, during the time you were there, you worked in the inkjet room, or whatever the digital stuff was. I was like the last hire your dad made before he left.
Thank you for the kind words Robert! I don't know your situation, but let me tell you this...if you want to experience flying, or start working toward being a pilot...go to your local small airport and meet the "regulars". You'll be living your fascination before you know it!!!
I did this experiment myself just yesterday in England. I regularly make a 300 mile round trip to London from my home in Devon, and almost always drive. But this week I flew. In a nutshell, because it's not that far and I still have to take the train the last 35 miles into London, it's pretty much even stevens on time, (but much more enjoyable to fly!) - the cost of flying I put at around £150 extra, round trip, to fly. TOTALLY worth it, rather than sitting in traffic! I'll release a video about it.
You also need to consider what opportunities it opens up for you. I’m here in St. Louis and my wife is from Detroit. Having a Mooney (she’s agreed to it someday) will allow us to go up there for long weekends multiple times a year to visit family and friends instead of driving 10 hours each way. We could do day trips to KC or Chicago easily. It can cost more sometimes sure, but it can open up a lot more possibilities. On top of that, I think you get a lot more enjoyment out of flying you plane than just trucking along for that long on the interstate.
I couldn't have said it better, thanks for the great thoughts (and for documenting the fact that she said you can have a Mooney some day). I'm happy to be a witness if she ever denies it! Thanks again for being here Brandon!
Opportunity cost is huge. access to a plane turns a six hour road trip I would never make (VA to PA to visit family) into a 1.5-2 hour (winds variable) flight. Another opportunity cost with owning vs renting the plane: my local aircraft rental place charges a 4-hour-per-day minimum if the rental reservation exceeds 8 hours in a day. At their currently posted rates, that turns a fri-sun weekend trip into $1,800, minimum. My typical weekend trips are about 3-4 hours round-trip time in my Mooney, for a flight-consumables cost of roughly $150-$200. so, for the cost of one weekend trip in a rental, i can make TEN weekend trips with my own bird, which is about what I was averaging per year prior to COVID. Those ten trips in a rental would have been almost half of my post-tax income, and thus not an option for me. All told, between the time saved flying and the money saved by not renting the plane, i get to spend an order of magnitude more time with family and friends, who i would otherwise only see once every few years.
I think if I was forced to rent, I would not be able to even consider making the trips flying. Too much red tape and risk. On another note, thank you so much for being here. Your comments are fantastic!!!
Seeing this video brought back memories of my uncle's plane. He enjoyed his Mooney and flew many times from the US to Brazil where he was a Physics professor. Unfortunately, he and my father flew the Mooney into the side of Howell Mountain on May 6th 2014. The mountain is just east of Yellowstone National Park. Get-home-itis got to them as they took off from Cody, Wyoming en-route to Twin Falls, Idaho and ultimately Seattle, Washington. The weather conditions were poor with snow forecast. Although forensic radar had them with more than enough altitude, they somehow came down and flew into the mountain near the crest. It was a 1963 Mooney, N6704U...just a bit older than yours.
Thanks for sharing this important reminder, and I’m so sorry for your loss. The decision to go, or not to go is one many pilots struggle with…myself included. We must be in constant pursuit of the best information available at all times, and always be willing to turn around and head back!
@@MyTimeToFly Here is a link to the findings with pictures at the end of the article. I wish to correct some of the information though; the trip from the East began in Fredericksburg, Virginia with stops in Des Moines, Iowa and Cody, Wyoming to visit relatives. The propeller, when recovered, was intact. I personally suspect icing to be an issue as the range prior to the one that they impacted is a higher elevation. Impact was found near the top of the mountain and appears that the plane fell backwards down the cliff to the site where they found it. Thank you for your kind reply and great advice. www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/05/mooney-m20c-robert-l-zimmerman-of.html
Thanks for sharing all of the details. I apologize for my slow reply here, TH-cam struggles to approve comments with links in them, and I didn't check the "held for review" tab.
Here is when it make sense for us...we now live in Griffin GA south of Atlanta...if I wanted to meet someone in Augusta there are no straight shot roads....3 hour drive if there is no road construction, no accidents, no traffic...1 hour +/- with a single engine plane
Sounds perfect to me. The advantage grows quickly as traffic increases and the roads wind more! For us, it would have mostly been a straight shot through corn country...but I still stick my my decision to fly.
Very nice video, I just subscribed. Although it’s hard to quantify, I greatly value my personal time. $125/hour at a minimum. What year is your Mooney?
I watched the how much it costs to own a plane video. Great breakdown. I am curious on how much these small planes cost in total though and would love a video on that.
Yeah I love your plane my dad‘s cousin had a Mooney lived in Sweet home Oregon airport little airport was across the street from where he lived they had a bout two hangers in it and a couple airplanes my dad‘s cousin had a piper J3 and one of the hangers camp is muni in there too it’s pretty cool I like your shell thanks for the video have a great day keep flying 👍🏼😎🎸😁
If you'd driven would you have done all 15 hours in a single day? I likely wouldn't so when I calculate this for myself I also have to include a hotel stay on the road, both ways. Because of that it's actually a lot closer in price to fly rather than a 15 hour drive.
It was actually about 7.5 hours one way, so 15 total. We would have driven it in a single day in this case. Your point of view is spot on for longer trips!
Good comparison. Other comments touch on the advantage of being able to take long weekends and day trips that flying yourself vs driving allows. The airline point has other components that can be a problem. You have to go when they go, not whenever you want, and they do not serve as many cities/locations........approximately 5000 public use airports, but only about 500 served by scheduled flights/air carrier.
Great video, thanks for sharing. I think what you didn’t account for (which could certainly justify the extra expense) aside from the convenience is the fun factor. It’s kind of like going to the casino. You know all the games are rigged against you, but what you lose to the house over the course of the night is your “cost of entertainment”.
Well done. Except with using your airplane you didn’t include cost of ownership or maintenance. The per hour rental rate of a GA light aircraft is typically about 2.5-3x the fuel burn per hour. Obviously you would have to do the same with the car, but these costs are more with an aircraft. Where GA really shines is going to places not served by the airlines and the flexibility of being able to have your own schedule.
You’re certainly correct that there are many other costs with using an owned plane. I do have another video that details some of those costs. But they could have been included here too.
You have a point, I'm going to pay them regardless if the plane is flying or not. One might argue that my maintenance costs will rise the more I fly, but perhaps that needs to be shifted toward my variable costs calculation (hourly rate).
@@MyTimeToFly the biggest reason I factor overhead and hourly costs separately is that rolling then together creates the illusion that flying more costs less, and I find that leads to unrealistic overall cost assessments.
I think 3 things to take into consideration: 1. deferred maintenance. Your 6 hours was probably another $180 towards engine and prop overhaul 2. fixed costs. you own a truck and a plane, which is nice. But when projecting future costs, you have to add in the cost of the plane when you're not using it. I think it's safe to say everyone has a car. But you have to calculate the marginal cost of the owning the plane per year. So you would have to throw in the all-in cost 3. Cost of people. 15 hours of driving vs 6 hours of flying for 2 people is 18 man-hours. If everyone in the vehicle values their time at let's say $40/hr then that's $720 saved from being able to do more stuff. So I think the $ costs are much higher than you used, even if you consider the plane as a sunk cost, but the return is understated too
Snacks, tolls, etc... Even a trip of 200 miles (5 hours with traffic and children) each way costs nearly as much as a short (GA) flight to where I go, and doesn't leave me relatively exhausted upon arrival. Plus, we would actually have time to do something, rather than "hi/g'bye". It...saves...an extra day.
I find it usually costs a little more to fly my Mooney than to drive an SUV with lousy mileage assuming I can find cheep fuel. This excludes parking (which is usually free) and transportation at my destination. I find my flight time compared to commercial is about the same when you include parking, going through security and waiting for a plane to take off. Not being able to fly through clouds keeps me from using my Mooney from traveling as much as I would like though. I should get my IFR.
Even if you never intend to spend one second in the clouds, get your instrument and commercial. It is a continuous pathway towards improving your competence and skills. The life you save may be someone very close to you.
Thanks for the great video! As for GA cost, it is fair to add engine overhaul price, that is considerable and a definite expense. As for that, for many trips there are small nuances that make GA look not that bad. You can get to a place and back in one day (let’s say 200-300nm) and spend the whole day there. In a car, you should drive for 6-7 hours, tired, take a hotel, spend a day and then drive back. For many many people time cost would greatly overweight the money cost. Thanks!!
The only thing I would say is with driving there could be loss of earnings if you have to leave home early and get home late. A lot more fatigue, lastly could you acomplish the drive in one day or would it involve an over night on the way there and on the way back.
I’m this case we could have driven it in one day. But the value of time is real! If we wanted to make it to the event on the first day driving (like we did flying) we would have had to add another overnight in St. Louis.
I have found this factor to be huge. Trips i would never even consider driving in the car, because it just takes too much time and driving on the interstate is so stressful, i make all the time in the plane. IMHO, when calculating the cost of flying vs driving, people massively undervalue their own time. sure, the video-maker here might have saved $500 to drive his truck instead of flying.... but driving his truck would have meant less time to spend at the event, way less energy to enjoy the event, and going in to work on monday feeling absolutely destroyed from 14 hours on the interstate in a single weekend. to say nothing of the exposure risk to traffic crashes on the road.
I fly commercial all the time. It's about 6 to 8 hrs for most domestic trips by the time you leave your house and transfer at the hub. Most tickets are not $316 commercial that must have been literally the cheapest tickets you could find. Usually it's about $440 for me as a norm.
Layovers can definitely add a bunch of time to trips. It seems the unpredictability of commercial aviation is not much different than the unpredictability weather creates for us VFR guys.
Hey there Stevie, I use GoPro's for most of my filming (have a Hero5 and Hero7). I also use my Iphone 11 quite a bit, it's really incredible what they're capable of. I also use an Nflightcam cable to capture the audio. Here's the exact one I use: amzn.to/3kfTp55
Ok. Stupid question coming your way. Why two steering wheels? ( I'm sure there not called steering wheels). How often would you actually have two pilots on board. Or do you have a reason to fly from the pasenger seat sometimes?
That's a great question. Having 2 yokes (that's what they are called) offers instant redundancy in the event duties have to be transferred to the right seat (pilot or otherwise). It's really quite easy to fly, or at the very least to keep the plane straight and level. It's also very important when you're first learning to fly...it give the instructor instant control when needed. Kind of like having the extra brake pedal in the passenger seat of drivers training cars.
@@glennanderson4554 just a tip! You can use the old tappan zee bridge now Mario cuomo bridge rt 287 when heading north to New England, its about $5 for toll about 25 extra minutes of drive time. A lot better than going through GW in my opinion
Most definitely...check out my other video that talks about most of those. I was really just trying to point out the costs directly related to a trip here. th-cam.com/video/Gqz5Pd1J6ys/w-d-xo.html
Very cool! There will be great days, and some bad days too. Keep your eyes on the end goal and you will be there before you know it! Thanks for being here!!!
@My Time To Fly Subjective value of time can differ, but I think an objective measure is to take how much you earn per hour of work in your current employment as opportunity cost. Depending on your point of view, if you work hourly you might also consider the value of your time to be the overtime rate that you would make if you worked extra hours (this is what I do when I consider the value of my free time, as I could spend my free time working extra and making more money). For a typical skilled labor job that makes around $25/hr, the hours saved multiplied times each person in the airplane can add up very quickly. This gets rapidly more true if you consider overtime, higher-end professional positions that might make $50-100/hr, or very specialized jobs that can make $300-500/hr. From this point of view, an airplane (commercial or private) only saves money for trips with long drive times. Driving is definitely cheaper for any trip that's sub 3-hours or so as the time spent driving to and from the airport(s), pre-flighting or waiting at the airport, plus baggage is nearly the same total time (or more) as driving. WX and other delays have to be considered since you might waste a lot of time at the airport waiting on WX/MX/ATC delays if you fly. For most middle class people I don't think the value equation starts to really tip in favor of the airplane until you reach trips with a one-way, 4-5 hour drive time--though the exact number depends on a lot of factors. Of course this is purely a numbers game, and we aren't accounting for the fun, cool factor, and other abstract benefits of general aviation. Personally, I think if it's not more than about 50% more expensive than driving I'm going fly just to get in an airplane!
The real kicker comes from slightly further distances that cannot be mastered comfortably in one go by car as the "time in seat" would exceed 10hrs Then, the occupants will need to break for the night and hotel costs nudge the scales. My dad once chartered a plane for a 400NM trip (800 RT) for a party of four because it was cheaper than anything else (factoring in the salaries of the people involved). A three-day trip with a total of 16 airline tickets and eight hotel rooms was chopped down to a one-day outing. The car would have not made sense in a professional setting.
You've certainly identified one solid truth...there are a ton of variables at play. Perhaps it would be best (for my sanity) if I just didn't add up the cost anymore!!!
@@MyTimeToFly well, you haven't quantified the fact that you were piloting your own aircraft. That is worth something, certainly more than the added cost over another mode of transportation. So it all depends on your personal desire to fly your own aircraft. It doesn't have to be cheaper than driving to make sense.
You totally ignored your DOC's + insurance which add about $60-$80/flthr x 5.1 =$300 -$400 on top of the $635 in variable costs. $1200-$1300 is a more realistic estimate.
I do have another video out there where I talk about those additional costs. Fortunately insurance is a fixed yearly cost rather than variable by the hour. But I certainly take your point!
@@MyTimeToFly even if one day gas is close to free.. its still more expensive to travel on your own.. the only point would be if its cheap enough that its 100 bucks vs 10 dollars, one is rich enough to not care. not its 1000 vs 100.
One of my viewers commented with this link, showing his cost calculator. It's pretty well done, so I wanted to share it with everybody.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Spmt48UeZVXWuo4s33T4fCZak5YroJ5NMIyM3Z7V1iQ/edit?usp=sharing
Can’t believe I stumbled upon your channel just browsing stuff preparing for my start in general aviation. And I’m so happy that I did! You’re providing a ton of info that helps me plan for my future!
So kind Charles, I'm glad I can help. Good luck as you start down your amazing journey!!!
@@MyTimeToFly do you remember me from Spartan graphics?
I certainly remember the Daugin name, but I can’t seem to put a face to it in my head. Where in the shop did you work?
@@MyTimeToFly Bindery, my Dad, Tim worked in prepress. You might know me as Chuck. I worked more with your wife than you, during the time you were there, you worked in the inkjet room, or whatever the digital stuff was. I was like the last hire your dad made before he left.
Oh that’s cool man, what a long time ago! Back when I was a young punk kid!!!
For someone like me who is fascinated with airplanes but will relistickly never become a pilot this channel is the next best thing. Thank you.
Thank you for the kind words Robert! I don't know your situation, but let me tell you this...if you want to experience flying, or start working toward being a pilot...go to your local small airport and meet the "regulars". You'll be living your fascination before you know it!!!
@@MyTimeToFly Thank you so much for your answers and for your channel. I'm 10 miles from a old fashion airstrip. Think I'll go poke around tomorrow.
Just make sure you let me know how it goes! It’s a great community!
Definitely more expensive though the speed and fantastic views are worth it, thanks
Most definitely, thanks for your support!
I did this experiment myself just yesterday in England. I regularly make a 300 mile round trip to London from my home in Devon, and almost always drive. But this week I flew. In a nutshell, because it's not that far and I still have to take the train the last 35 miles into London, it's pretty much even stevens on time, (but much more enjoyable to fly!) - the cost of flying I put at around £150 extra, round trip, to fly. TOTALLY worth it, rather than sitting in traffic! I'll release a video about it.
Awesome man, I’ll make sure to check it out!
Would love to see more videos from the UK about GA. Flying Across Britain with Arthur Williams is a great show.
Sounds like Charlie 👆🏻 is another one you should follow! Thanks for being here!
You also need to consider what opportunities it opens up for you. I’m here in St. Louis and my wife is from Detroit. Having a Mooney (she’s agreed to it someday) will allow us to go up there for long weekends multiple times a year to visit family and friends instead of driving 10 hours each way. We could do day trips to KC or Chicago easily. It can cost more sometimes sure, but it can open up a lot more possibilities. On top of that, I think you get a lot more enjoyment out of flying you plane than just trucking along for that long on the interstate.
I couldn't have said it better, thanks for the great thoughts (and for documenting the fact that she said you can have a Mooney some day). I'm happy to be a witness if she ever denies it! Thanks again for being here Brandon!
Opportunity cost is huge. access to a plane turns a six hour road trip I would never make (VA to PA to visit family) into a 1.5-2 hour (winds variable) flight.
Another opportunity cost with owning vs renting the plane: my local aircraft rental place charges a 4-hour-per-day minimum if the rental reservation exceeds 8 hours in a day. At their currently posted rates, that turns a fri-sun weekend trip into $1,800, minimum. My typical weekend trips are about 3-4 hours round-trip time in my Mooney, for a flight-consumables cost of roughly $150-$200.
so, for the cost of one weekend trip in a rental, i can make TEN weekend trips with my own bird, which is about what I was averaging per year prior to COVID. Those ten trips in a rental would have been almost half of my post-tax income, and thus not an option for me.
All told, between the time saved flying and the money saved by not renting the plane, i get to spend an order of magnitude more time with family and friends, who i would otherwise only see once every few years.
I think if I was forced to rent, I would not be able to even consider making the trips flying. Too much red tape and risk.
On another note, thank you so much for being here. Your comments are fantastic!!!
excellent. Like his no b.s. down to earth explanation of cost. Good man; great explanation. Thank you sir.
You’re too kind! I appreciate you being here!
I also factor in time saved. My time is valuable. How valuable is subjective, but there is value in spending less time traveling.
I completely agree. Everybody values their time differently, but as a general rule I feel people undervalue their time!
Seeing this video brought back memories of my uncle's plane. He enjoyed his Mooney and flew many times from the US to Brazil where he was a Physics professor. Unfortunately, he and my father flew the Mooney into the side of Howell Mountain on May 6th 2014. The mountain is just east of Yellowstone National Park. Get-home-itis got to them as they took off from Cody, Wyoming en-route to Twin Falls, Idaho and ultimately Seattle, Washington. The weather conditions were poor with snow forecast. Although forensic radar had them with more than enough altitude, they somehow came down and flew into the mountain near the crest. It was a 1963 Mooney, N6704U...just a bit older than yours.
Thanks for sharing this important reminder, and I’m so sorry for your loss. The decision to go, or not to go is one many pilots struggle with…myself included. We must be in constant pursuit of the best information available at all times, and always be willing to turn around and head back!
@@MyTimeToFly Here is a link to the findings with pictures at the end of the article. I wish to correct some of the information though; the trip from the East began in Fredericksburg, Virginia with stops in Des Moines, Iowa and Cody, Wyoming to visit relatives. The propeller, when recovered, was intact. I personally suspect icing to be an issue as the range prior to the one that they impacted is a higher elevation. Impact was found near the top of the mountain and appears that the plane fell backwards down the cliff to the site where they found it. Thank you for your kind reply and great advice.
www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/05/mooney-m20c-robert-l-zimmerman-of.html
Thanks for sharing all of the details. I apologize for my slow reply here, TH-cam struggles to approve comments with links in them, and I didn't check the "held for review" tab.
Here is when it make sense for us...we now live in Griffin GA south of Atlanta...if I wanted to meet someone in Augusta there are no straight shot roads....3 hour drive if there is no road construction, no accidents, no traffic...1 hour +/- with a single engine plane
Sounds perfect to me. The advantage grows quickly as traffic increases and the roads wind more! For us, it would have mostly been a straight shot through corn country...but I still stick my my decision to fly.
Nice video, very informative.
Very nice video, I just subscribed. Although it’s hard to quantify, I greatly value my personal time. $125/hour at a minimum. What year is your Mooney?
Thank you kindly Gene, she’s a 1963.
Thanks John! I appreciate you watching.
I watched the how much it costs to own a plane video. Great breakdown. I am curious on how much these small planes cost in total though and would love a video on that.
I did make one, but these days they easily cost between $50k - $500k.
Yeah I love your plane my dad‘s cousin had a Mooney lived in Sweet home Oregon airport little airport was across the street from where he lived they had a bout two hangers in it and a couple airplanes my dad‘s cousin had a piper J3 and one of the hangers camp is muni in there too it’s pretty cool I like your shell thanks for the video have a great day keep flying 👍🏼😎🎸😁
Right on Mark! Thanks for watching and being a part of the community!
If you'd driven would you have done all 15 hours in a single day? I likely wouldn't so when I calculate this for myself I also have to include a hotel stay on the road, both ways. Because of that it's actually a lot closer in price to fly rather than a 15 hour drive.
It was actually about 7.5 hours one way, so 15 total. We would have driven it in a single day in this case. Your point of view is spot on for longer trips!
@@MyTimeToFly Ahh.. Yeah
Here's my comparison. Let me know what you think: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Spmt48UeZVXWuo4s33T4fCZak5YroJ5NMIyM3Z7V1iQ/edit?usp=sharing
That’s really great...thanks for sharing! Seems to hit the nail on the head! Would you mind if I pin the link in a comment?
@@MyTimeToFly of course not! Go for it!
Good comparison. Other comments touch on the advantage of being able to take long weekends and day trips that flying yourself vs driving allows. The airline point has other components that can be a problem. You have to go when they go, not whenever you want, and they do not serve as many cities/locations........approximately 5000 public use airports, but only about 500 served by scheduled flights/air carrier.
Very good points! Thanks for your input and for watching.
Great video Esp highlighting the ga hidden costs 👍🏻🇺🇸
Thank you kindly! I appreciate you watching!!!
Great video, thanks for sharing. I think what you didn’t account for (which could certainly justify the extra expense) aside from the convenience is the fun factor. It’s kind of like going to the casino. You know all the games are rigged against you, but what you lose to the house over the course of the night is your “cost of entertainment”.
Most definitely...it's like any hobby, there is certainly a price you pay to enjoy what you're doing.
Well done. Except with using your airplane you didn’t include cost of ownership or maintenance. The per hour rental rate of a GA light aircraft is typically about 2.5-3x the fuel burn per hour. Obviously you would have to do the same with the car, but these costs are more with an aircraft. Where GA really shines is going to places not served by the airlines and the flexibility of being able to have your own schedule.
You’re certainly correct that there are many other costs with using an owned plane. I do have another video that details some of those costs. But they could have been included here too.
I never factor fixed overhead costs into trip price. those are the costs of owning the plane, not the costs of any particular flight.
You have a point, I'm going to pay them regardless if the plane is flying or not. One might argue that my maintenance costs will rise the more I fly, but perhaps that needs to be shifted toward my variable costs calculation (hourly rate).
@@MyTimeToFly the biggest reason I factor overhead and hourly costs separately is that rolling then together creates the illusion that flying more costs less, and I find that leads to unrealistic overall cost assessments.
Makes good sense to me!
Love it want a Mooney pretty badly haha
Find the right one...they're definitely awesome!
I think 3 things to take into consideration:
1. deferred maintenance. Your 6 hours was probably another $180 towards engine and prop overhaul
2. fixed costs. you own a truck and a plane, which is nice. But when projecting future costs, you have to add in the cost of the plane when you're not using it. I think it's safe to say everyone has a car. But you have to calculate the marginal cost of the owning the plane per year. So you would have to throw in the all-in cost
3. Cost of people. 15 hours of driving vs 6 hours of flying for 2 people is 18 man-hours. If everyone in the vehicle values their time at let's say $40/hr then that's $720 saved from being able to do more stuff.
So I think the $ costs are much higher than you used, even if you consider the plane as a sunk cost, but the return is understated too
Thanks for all the thoughts and details Alan!
If driving for 15 hours, going to have to pay for stops to eat and snacks most likely too. Thanks for the info!
My pleasure Chuck, thanks for being here!
Snacks, tolls, etc... Even a trip of 200 miles (5 hours with traffic and children) each way costs nearly as much as a short (GA) flight to where I go, and doesn't leave me relatively exhausted upon arrival. Plus, we would actually have time to do something, rather than "hi/g'bye". It...saves...an extra day.
Those darn tolls!
I find it usually costs a little more to fly my Mooney than to drive an SUV with lousy mileage assuming I can find cheep fuel. This excludes parking (which is usually free) and transportation at my destination. I find my flight time compared to commercial is about the same when you include parking, going through security and waiting for a plane to take off. Not being able to fly through clouds keeps me from using my Mooney from traveling as much as I would like though. I should get my IFR.
I'm with you 100% there. I need to get my butt in gear on the IFR.
Even if you never intend to spend one second in the clouds, get your instrument and commercial. It is a continuous pathway towards improving your competence and skills. The life you save may be someone very close to you.
Agreed!
Thanks for the great video! As for GA cost, it is fair to add engine overhaul price, that is considerable and a definite expense. As for that, for many trips there are small nuances that make GA look not that bad. You can get to a place and back in one day (let’s say 200-300nm) and spend the whole day there. In a car, you should drive for 6-7 hours, tired, take a hotel, spend a day and then drive back. For many many people time cost would greatly overweight the money cost. Thanks!!
Thanks Eugene. I like the concept of "time cost" vs. "money cost". That is where GA can really start to shine.
Amazing thank you. I am trying to sell buying a plane for the family to my wife and I was looking for exactly this kind of breakdown!
So cool! I hope you can make your case successfully. It's hard to beat the Mooney for efficiency.
The only thing I would say is with driving there could be loss of earnings if you have to leave home early and get home late. A lot more fatigue, lastly could you acomplish the drive in one day or would it involve an over night on the way there and on the way back.
I’m this case we could have driven it in one day. But the value of time is real! If we wanted to make it to the event on the first day driving (like we did flying) we would have had to add another overnight in St. Louis.
I have found this factor to be huge. Trips i would never even consider driving in the car, because it just takes too much time and driving on the interstate is so stressful, i make all the time in the plane.
IMHO, when calculating the cost of flying vs driving, people massively undervalue their own time. sure, the video-maker here might have saved $500 to drive his truck instead of flying.... but driving his truck would have meant less time to spend at the event, way less energy to enjoy the event, and going in to work on monday feeling absolutely destroyed from 14 hours on the interstate in a single weekend. to say nothing of the exposure risk to traffic crashes on the road.
I sure like where your head is at. Plus, it gives me more content...which is always needed!!!
I fly commercial all the time. It's about 6 to 8 hrs for most domestic trips by the time you leave your house and transfer at the hub. Most tickets are not $316 commercial that must have been literally the cheapest tickets you could find. Usually it's about $440 for me as a norm.
Layovers can definitely add a bunch of time to trips. It seems the unpredictability of commercial aviation is not much different than the unpredictability weather creates for us VFR guys.
I think that if you were paying for hangar space, it would have been appropriate to use the fbo car
I hadn’t thought of it that way, would have saved me some solid $$$.
With your skill set. Would you be able to land a commercial airliner safely if needed?
That’s a question I ask myself every time I get in an airliner. I sure think I’d be able to, but am unlikely to have that chance!
What camera equipment do you use to capture video and audio in the cockpit?
Hey there Stevie, I use GoPro's for most of my filming (have a Hero5 and Hero7). I also use my Iphone 11 quite a bit, it's really incredible what they're capable of.
I also use an Nflightcam cable to capture the audio. Here's the exact one I use:
amzn.to/3kfTp55
Ok. Stupid question coming your way. Why two steering wheels? ( I'm sure there not called steering wheels). How often would you actually have two pilots on board. Or do you have a reason to fly from the pasenger seat sometimes?
That's a great question. Having 2 yokes (that's what they are called) offers instant redundancy in the event duties have to be transferred to the right seat (pilot or otherwise). It's really quite easy to fly, or at the very least to keep the plane straight and level. It's also very important when you're first learning to fly...it give the instructor instant control when needed. Kind of like having the extra brake pedal in the passenger seat of drivers training cars.
Almost all aircraft have dual controls for training purposes, unlike cars, even two seater aircraft. It’s standard in aviation.
It’s so common, that when you see a plane with only 1 set of controls…your shocked!
Do all Mooney's have PTT issues?
I don’t think so, especially since there is such a variety of equipment you can be connected to (different radios).
Are there no toll roads out that way? My drive from my home to my daughters house is $72 in tolls. Each way.
Holy cow! There are some toll roads in the Midwest, but nothing like that. What part of the US do you run into that many tolls?
@@MyTimeToFly Rhode Island to Raleigh NC. The George Washington bridge alone with ez pass is $13.75 peak time.
One of the reasons I want to buy a mooney
Yikes! I’ll stick to the midwest I guess!
@@glennanderson4554 just a tip! You can use the old tappan zee bridge now Mario cuomo bridge rt 287 when heading north to New England, its about $5 for toll about 25 extra minutes of drive time. A lot better than going through GW in my opinion
Hard to beat the view of the Arch coming out of CPS, though…
It was pretty cool!
Usually cheaper to fly commercial for one, but better if you have two or more.
Agreed, the more that can share the cost the better. I guess I need a Cherokee 6 and a bunch of willing friends.
Fixed costs? Insurance, depreciation, maintenance, etc.
Most definitely...check out my other video that talks about most of those.
I was really just trying to point out the costs directly related to a trip here.
th-cam.com/video/Gqz5Pd1J6ys/w-d-xo.html
Yes, you would need to probably double the fuel cost, to cover those expenses, if you fly 100 hr per year.
Seems right to me.
It's funny I stumbled on to this video because I do flight lessons out of cps
Very cool! You’re a student? How far along are you?
@@MyTimeToFly yup I'm a student, I'm just under 10 hours of flying, so still getting my foot in the door
Very cool! There will be great days, and some bad days too. Keep your eyes on the end goal and you will be there before you know it! Thanks for being here!!!
@My Time To Fly Subjective value of time can differ, but I think an objective measure is to take how much you earn per hour of work in your current employment as opportunity cost. Depending on your point of view, if you work hourly you might also consider the value of your time to be the overtime rate that you would make if you worked extra hours (this is what I do when I consider the value of my free time, as I could spend my free time working extra and making more money). For a typical skilled labor job that makes around $25/hr, the hours saved multiplied times each person in the airplane can add up very quickly. This gets rapidly more true if you consider overtime, higher-end professional positions that might make $50-100/hr, or very specialized jobs that can make $300-500/hr.
From this point of view, an airplane (commercial or private) only saves money for trips with long drive times. Driving is definitely cheaper for any trip that's sub 3-hours or so as the time spent driving to and from the airport(s), pre-flighting or waiting at the airport, plus baggage is nearly the same total time (or more) as driving. WX and other delays have to be considered since you might waste a lot of time at the airport waiting on WX/MX/ATC delays if you fly. For most middle class people I don't think the value equation starts to really tip in favor of the airplane until you reach trips with a one-way, 4-5 hour drive time--though the exact number depends on a lot of factors.
Of course this is purely a numbers game, and we aren't accounting for the fun, cool factor, and other abstract benefits of general aviation. Personally, I think if it's not more than about 50% more expensive than driving I'm going fly just to get in an airplane!
I love it…what an excellent analysis! Thanks for the comment.
I have Dodge 3500 diesel and I switched it over to AMSOIL and I get 22 miles per gallon!
I heard you Cummins guys have to dump fuel to make weight...hahaha!
Well done!! .. now how do I hide this content from my wife?
Hahaha, too funny!
The real kicker comes from slightly further distances that cannot be mastered comfortably in one go by car as the "time in seat" would exceed 10hrs
Then, the occupants will need to break for the night and hotel costs nudge the scales.
My dad once chartered a plane for a 400NM trip (800 RT) for a party of four because it was cheaper than anything else (factoring in the salaries of the people involved).
A three-day trip with a total of 16 airline tickets and eight hotel rooms was chopped down to a one-day outing.
The car would have not made sense in a professional setting.
You've certainly identified one solid truth...there are a ton of variables at play. Perhaps it would be best (for my sanity) if I just didn't add up the cost anymore!!!
@@MyTimeToFly well, you haven't quantified the fact that you were piloting your own aircraft. That is worth something, certainly more than the added cost over another mode of transportation.
So it all depends on your personal desire to fly your own aircraft. It doesn't have to be cheaper than driving to make sense.
I couldn’t have said it any better! The satisfaction is well worth any added costs!
No toll's?
I always click that button on my GPS “avoid tolls”.
You totally ignored your DOC's + insurance which add about $60-$80/flthr x 5.1 =$300 -$400 on top of the $635 in variable costs.
$1200-$1300 is a more realistic estimate.
I do have another video out there where I talk about those additional costs. Fortunately insurance is a fixed yearly cost rather than variable by the hour. But I certainly take your point!
So the main takeaway is: how do I get the cheap diesel into the Mooney and fly with it? 😅
I sure wish the Mooney was a diesel...that would be awesome.
Switch to an experimental then fly with mogas.
That’s certainly in my plan! @darkaero
@@MyTimeToFly DarkAero looks like a screaming fast, economical two seater. Lots of great options as well in the 4 place size.
Agreed! I tend to believe they will start development of a 4 seater in the near future. Need to get some cash rolling in on that first model though!
I filled my vehicle and my wife’s it cost more than an hour in my 182.
It’s getting scary out there. I’ve pretty much parked my Diesel truck for fear of the cost of filling up!
@@MyTimeToFly I need to get another truck and just can’t see paying so much
Amen. I bought my Duramax with 243k miles on it and still paid $16k (4 years ago). But it’s an LBZ…so I’m not getting rid of it anytime soon!
IN NO WORLD would it be ever cheaper to fly private pilot unless you have like a family or 4-5 ppl all paying you
That's likely true!
@@MyTimeToFly even if one day gas is close to free.. its still more expensive to travel on your own.. the only point would be if its cheap enough that its 100 bucks vs 10 dollars, one is rich enough to not care. not its 1000 vs 100.
I’ll keep working on the getting rich part!