Wheel of Time Season 2 Episode 4: Daughter of the Night Book Fan Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- In this review of episode 4, season 2 of Amazon Prime's The Wheel of Time, I break down the differences between the book and the TV show and discuss where the TV show writing is weak, even considering that the show is an adaptation.
I don’t think its worth the headache to incorporate clips from the show, your reviews are great as they are.
I did screen capture for still images, didn’t bother with clips.
Especially after amber got struck 4 times by amazon to include video with nothing but her bookshelf in the background
Some screencaps would be a nice touch. More work, though it could also let you trace your talking points with corresponding chapter headings in the video, too.
@@alecf5103 I did this before but I don't know how I did it. The snipping tool I normally use didn't work and neither did the screen print function on the keyboard.
@@amys0482 Hoversnap is a nice app that you can use to capture screens. I use it because the Microsoft snipping tool sometimes fails to work at all. Hoversnap is free and very useful as well as easy to use.
Despite the improvements in Season 2, there's still the fundamental issues of why should we care about Rand? About the world? About any risk/stakes/greater conflict? No matter what changes are made to the character arcs, storyline, or anything else, without an engaging reason to care they all fall flat. I'm pretty sure you can remove the 3 main book characters from the tv's story and it wouldn't make that much of a difference in the tv show. Mainly because Matt, Perin, and Rand don't seem that important. At the moment, when talking to non-book readers, the bulk of our discussions basically centers around trying to explain why Rand is so important, why the dragon reborn is a really freaking big deal, why there's even a conflict between the dark and the light, and why the dark one breaking out actually matters. Having to devote so much time to "why should we care" really speaks to the abysmal job the show writers have done. Quite frankly, I don't think that's recoverable.
You missed the part of Moraine's age. For some reason, she is over 90 years old. Yet, she was somehow accepted when she was 70 years old. I have no idea why they changed that but it's funny as hell considering that Moraine and Siuan were young girls who became Aes Sedai in record time like Elaida. Now they spent over 50 years to make it haha. Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne are going to set the record in less than 3 years. I have no idea how they can screw up something some small. Also, Moraine's brother who married the Andor family was ancient based on the fact Moraine is over 90 years old. How disgusting that an old man married two young women in their early twenties.
Also, Moraine's boss moment to kill Lanfear makes no sense. Lanfear who would have wards set out around her place of safety in advance. She wouldn't let anyone enter her domain without her knowing, but somehow how boss Moraine not only got through but sneaked in through the door without making any noises picked up Rand's sword, and stabbed her. Like first Rand has no respect for his father's sword like he does in the book. They have no respect for how important the sword is or what it holds or Rand wouldn't have just dropped it on the floor like it's not valuable.
Last I don't know why in the show Rand would trust Moraine of all people. He has been around Lanfear for 5 months and is very intimate. He spent less than 3 weeks total with Moriane and half the time she was threatening him and treating him like shit. She comes out of nowhere and stabs Lanfear and Rand somehow believes her. Like wtf how is that a believable story. It's not like Lanfear revealed herself to him and told him who she really is. Like the story is just bad in trying to make Moraine the main character who just does everything perfectly. If I was Rand I wouldn't believe her at all, and I would of burn her on that spot. I mean the show needed to spend more time on that scene and let Lanfear show Rand who she is. We the audience know who she is but Rand doesn't get to see the scene with her being released. All he knows is that Moraine just stabbed his girlfriend while he was in bed.
I agree, I noticed those things too. The timeline does not add up with old Moiraine.
But I disagree with the wards: Lanfear has zero enemies in this telling, as she gets along great with Ishy, the other forsaken are not free and the World does not know about her. + they are in a remote place. So why set wards?
Also: why in the world would Moiraine capture Logain to train Rand, but then let him work his way up for months to get access to him, a time they could have spent training?
@@leza4453 i thought that at first, but they said 6 decades in a convoluted way aka 'it's been decades now six', but i think she actually said is 'it's been decades, now sit '
@@SirBlaze75 I understood that as "sit" as well. But the fact that Moiraine heard the Prophecy of Gitarra Sedai as an Accepted and this was in the moment of Rands birth and Anavere being in her 60ies (at least, the Actress is 72) would mean that Moiraine was over 40 as an Accepted.
@@SirBlaze75 okay, nevermind, it was not stated in the TV series that Moiraine was Accepted during the prophecy.
rofl I had the same thought with the mopping the floors, I could sort of understand it with Elayne, but I was hella confused with a supposed innkeeps daughter not knowing how to mop floors especially when she is known to clean up at the end of a nights trade.
The issue with the show is that it isn't adapted for anyone in particular. Book readers find it hard to find any actual wheel of time in this telling of Robert Jordan's story. The show itself doesn't tell a cohesive narrative.
One nice thing with stabbing Lanfear in the heart with a sword and cutting her throat is, just as it is with our protagonists, death is a mere inconvenience. There are literally zero stakes in this show anymore, if there ever was, they certainly didn't establish any right from the beginning. I guess we'll just enjoy Lan's slow journey into becoming a hippy. 😁🤨😢
Barely an inconvenience.
But thats how it is in the books: you can kill a Forsaken, but unless you have used balefire he (or she) will return. It just takes a bit longer.
@@gildor8866 Well, the Forsaken are an exception.
The problem is that it's become more of a rule than an exception, because of all the stupid decisions by the show-runner... or his incompetence.
There's been too many fake deaths.
Just to name 2, Nynaeve and Loial, two of our MC's.
Through incompetence, they used makeup and effects to make Nynaeve appear to be dead... and Loial certainly SHOULD be dead after being stabbed with the Dagger. There wasn't anyone close enough to him to be able to heal him before the "poison" from the Dagger killed him. Nynaeve was too far away, and she's the only one who had the ability... assuming she'd been close enough, which she wasn't... even if she'd been in the position to do it AND overcome her block.
@@gildor8866 Not necessarily. It's pretty apparent in the books that it's rare, even when not killed with balefire, and has to be through the Dark One's decision and by meeting his favor whether or not he brings them back. Plus it's also implied that it's like a trip through hell, Shayol Ghul, when it's done. Not just simply reopening your eyes!
I'm convinced this show was made specifically to enrage most of the people who've read the books. It really is nonsense to people who haven't read them, and aren't idiots. But for real, so far, the only great change they made was cutting out the green man from the blight. It was like cutting Tom Bombadil. It makes sense. Most of the changes have been unjustified and destructive to the quality of the story, though. Very unfortunate they say they're doing an adaptation. A complete reimagining is not an adaptation.
Lan taking a piss in so many ways represents what Rafe is doing to RJ’s work. The writers are so adolescent, I thought they aged up the characters so this wouldnt seem like a YA story… They just can’t help driving home the sexploits of Alanna and her warders, we Friggin get it, it’s not that interesting. The fact that the writers obviously think it is, actually makes them seem homophobic to me. I also think that it is absurd to believe that all Green sisters and their warders would operate this way and that the warders would be expected to be lovers too. It’s possible to have an open relationship btwn 3 lovers that still maintains some autonomy. It feels like there isnt an adult in the writer’s room and definitely no expert on the WoT, just some hacks that found some cliff notes and are trying to trope their way thru a Fantasy series to fill the void of GoT.
The immediate impression created of Lanfear as a ghoulish monster is so much less interesting than the enormously gifted if obsessed Forsaken. The show runners decided, it seems , to continue the cuddly Trolloc gambit and thereby abuse the Darkfriend scrawl refrain concerning “blood”; it does not refer only to Lanfear and doesn’t come close to the vampirism used in the show.
I dislike it personally
Is just me or is the audio for this video only on the right speaker/headphone? I seem to be fine for all other videos on TH-cam, so I think it's something with the way you recorded the audio - just wanted to let you know
Also sensing some static.
It's not just you, I am experiencing the same issue.
Yeah, my software sucks
Around seven minutes in you talk about "What are the Chosen?". Feels to me you perfectly describe the showrunners.
It takes having done some growing up, aka maturity and experience, to be able to see beyond a simple horizon. Robert Jordan had that in spades.
Anyway, thanks for an interesting and insightful review.
A thoughtful and thorough review, as usual.
Have you noticed that in this show we get to a place and stay just long enough for someone to find a reason to go to another place, but we never actually _do_ anything where we are?
I'm also curious about what exactly Logain is supposed to teach Rand about the power since Rand's been shown to use it in a targeted ways at least twice now (contrary to Nyneave who just... erupts every time). And _why_ would Logain be a good teacher exactly?
I've been really frustrated with no one taking Moiraine to task on her callous behaviour, the most egregious example being her sneaking off in the night then having to be saved from 4 fades (these things are everywhere!). You'd think that _someone_ would scold her for rashness unbecoming of Aes Sedai. But no. Everyone takes it in stride for some bizarre reason.
I also find Lan having to be educated on what being a warder is after 20 years on the job _really_ irksome.
But I guess that's just me wanting a 1:1 adaptation.
Show-Moiraine really needs a lot of what Elayne has supposedly been getting every morning from Sheriam.
Since she's always blaming her failures on someone else, usually Lan, I'd say she deserves to be sent to Sheriam at least twice a day... or better, Liandrin.
Because this Fan Fiction series doesn't adhere even closely to the source material, nothing makes sense. Logain has been stilled, cut off from Saidin. How can he teach Rand anything when he no longer can channel? BTW, the showrunner doesn't understand Moiraine's character or doesn't care. She's an aristocrat by birth and an Aes Sedai. She understands the use of power and does not use it like a cudgel unless it is necessary. It would be beneath her.
Logain makes sense as the best option out of bad options to teach Rand. He can't demonstrate Weaves or such, but he can still coach Rand through the process...and yes, that's DECIDEDLY inferior to having a pet Forsaken to teach him directly, but it's better than nothing.
Logain could definitely teach him much. He has been channeling for years. He can't demonstrate weaves but could describe how he handles the taint and how the weaves should look and the difference between earth and spirit etc. Kind of like learning something from a book. You can have diagrams etc.
It's not like I expect a 1:1 adaption, this show isn't even a 1:100 adaption.
There are currently no magic rules, so breaking that doesn’t matter.
A major part of the world building was the magic mechanics.
Imagine if they used the girls training to channel, to also train the audience on the rules of the magic system... It seemed like a perfect time to do it. Instead they just left it ambiguous so they can write themselves out of corners when they inevitably end up in them. How is Loial alive? Magic! How is Nynaeve alive? Magic! Magic can do anything at all. There are no rules! Just don't use too much or your eyes turn into dust... But if that happens, even an untrained channeler can resurrect you. No worries!
@@ploptimusgrime332 that makes sense, but every magic use prior to the teaching has to conform to those laws or their are no laws.
The frequency with which they kill people and bring them back to life is not a good indication tho.
@@jsbrads1 yeah, I guess I meant if they were trying to make an actual adaptation, that would be the perfect time to have laid out the rules, but they already blew that in season 1 by breaking them.
It seems to me the writers only read an outline of what the books are about and decided to do their own thing. They should have done their own story and let writers who actually liked the books to do this project. I can't even put in words how much I hate what they have done to my favorite book series.
I feel the same. I don't know why they had to change almost everything. Even if they do try to hit the same story and character arcs there is no reason they had to do every one differently. Seeing what they did at the end of season one I have no confidence that my favorite scenes will make the tv show. They haven't so far.
Episode one except for Nyneave getting taken by trollics, I was willing to give it a chance. I thought the battle was good and I was willing to eliminate most of the book plot if they wanted to get them out of town in one episode. But I still didn't like a few things like Perrin's fridge wife story. Rand and Egwaine sleeping together in the common room. Every episode after changed more and more with no real gain. No shortcut because of too many characters.
I really hate what they have done because they obviously are writing their own story. And so many scenes that I and other book readers wanted to see will be found nowhere.
The production team has had a lore master on staff. They just chose not to listen to her.
The sure one or takes an active stance against various aspects of the source material and has been quoted doing so in interviews numerous times over the years.
Even if some riders have not read the whole series, they've certainly been pretty to all the details because the lore master has been there throughout the entire process to give notes.
That kind of makes it worse.
And also, someone has definitely been deleting my comments. Even though they've included links to articles of interviews with people on the production staff.
So because they got older actresses to play the Aes Sedai their solution for the slowing question is just to age them all up by decades?
In the books Moiraine, Siuan and Sheriam are all in their 40's. Liandrin is 34.
And Elaida is 48. Given the longlivety of Aes Sedai (Cadsuane Melaidhrin is nearly 300 years old) it quite astonishing that the Tower in the book is apparently being run by sisters that are younger than our average political leaders today.
@@gildor8866 It's a combination of a couple of factors.
1. In a general sense the older they get the less interested they are in outside things. Egwene says the Tower is basically a collection of hermits.
2. More specifically after the Aiel War and the vileness they wanted new blood to be in charge.
The hands on head thumbnail is on point. Literally my pose half of the episode lol.
Btw, your LR sound mixing is off. My left audio is way quieter than my right.
People tell me it doesn't work at all. I have no idea why.
Hello Amy, I have seen all of your videos. I enjoy your analysis very much. I wanted to let you know that it seems like this video in particular can only be heard though the right speaker while using headphones.
I wish I knew why.
Maybe it's not your software's fault. Try checking the video settings and re-upload? TH-cam can be a little buggy sometimes.
You're such a gentle person, Amy: always giving the screenwriters the benefit of the doubt, refusing to flat out recognise their stupefying incompetence... That's really admirable, you're a better person than I am. But deep down inside you know there's no redemption for this show 😅
We are half way through the season, 4 episodes and 5 to 6 months time off screen and where are we for our main characters?
Rand: Hung a lantern, had sex*, killed a colleague, had sex*, learned how to do a fetch quest, had sex*, still unable to use a sword, had sex*
Mat: Sat in a cell, didn't realise which wall led to the outside, ran away, following Min because he has no idea what else to do
Perrin: Wrote a letter
Lan: Walked around without his shirt on, died to a fade's blade, was resurrected (who cried on him to bring him back?), watered a tree, has to decide if he wants some D, generally lost
Moiraine: Abusive to everyone, died to a fade, resurrected, remains abusive, abandons Lan, apparently did all this great set up off screen
Nyneave: Has not been using the power, instead has been training with a sword, now has some more emotional damage, will drink anything
Egwene: Apparently doesn't like to do her lessons as she knows best, likes to moan a lot
Lanfear: had sex, tells everyone where she is staying, does not use the power to protect herself
Ishy: didn't kill Mat although knew he was in the Tower, didn't kill Perrin when met, didn't kill Rand although he knew he was with Lanfear
* Rand keeps his clothes on, so does Lanfear, the sex might be something Rand is failing at too. He does seem to have a thing for choking women so maybe that makes up for it 🤷♂
The idea that the show is going to pull everything together with a good story in the remaining four episodes is optimistic.
How would Moiraine know that Lanfear isn't really dead? That the Dark One transfers their souls into new bodies is something that the heroes never find out. (maybe near the end. But it's very late in the story)
True
@@amys0482 Conversely, how would she know that the DO would just True Power heal her slit throat?
Body swapping is something that won't work for a show medium, it is jarring for character changes. So most likely the show is saying the forsaken were specifically imprisoned because they're harder to kill, Possibly only you know what can kill them. (sorry Amy, I hadn't quite watched, the Video yet, your idea about using the same actors could work)
She "knows" it because if you could kill the Forsaken that easily they wouldn't be the Forsaken. Honestly, if they have that ability that they appear to have than I would think that this is one of the informations that would survive from the Age of Legends (even the book it is known that the Forsaken are immortal, though that has a slighly different meaning).
Also: even if you are not certain that Lanfear is not dead - would you really want to stay to find out?
@@gildor8866 It is NOT known in the books that the Forsaken are immortal. Where did that come from?
My crazy theory is that lanfear is a Draghkar/Vampire and was about to show rand her true form by dropping her mask of mirrors just before the attack.
really agree with nynaeve 'years' in the arches and resulting trauma. her major problems at this point should be her block, distrust of the tower, and desire to rescue her friends in falme. that should be enough for her character to be engaging
What about the warder simping?
@@jsbrads1 if you mean her spending time with the warders fighting, i dont love it but it does at least make some sort of sense with her distrust of the tower/sisters
@@chadstacy nah, she is like minding her business and then this warder student comes up to her and says “OMG! It is so cool you channeled in the arches! I love you so much! Will you bond me!”
I found it interesting that the show finally displayed what I consider one of Rand's most identifiable personality traits: He will self-deny until the end of time if he thinks it will protect a woman he cares for. His motion to leave Selene because he would go crazy and kill her was a very Rand reaction.
The rest of what this episode tells me is:
- The show still doesn't like its male protagonists.
- The show likes Aes Sedai, going out of its way to make Liandrin more likeable, showing off the very clever and observant Verin, the interesting Alanna.
- The show likes warders. It seems to like to explore the lives and ideas of warders (something the books do largely ignore to my recollection -- they are really treated as adjuncts to the Aes Sedai). I kind of like the idea of expanding the warders, but with SO MANY EVENTS AND CHARACTERS from the books that will have to be cut just to fit the story to a screen, I question if this focus on warders as people is really doing enough to justify its screen time. And by "I question," I really mean it's totally unjustified. There's nothing interesting enough going on there. It's meaningless to the overall story, and largely meaningless to the protagonists (though at this point, I think that the "protagonists" feel like all the Aes Sedai rather than Rand, Matt, Perrin, Egwene, and Nyneave). I could accept it if it were making some interesting points about life or humanity and such, but so far, it appears to be mostly focusing on men who show no real leadership qualities, little agency, and who don't really have anything insightful to say.
If you'd really like to include screenshots of the show in your videos, here how. (You can only do so using a web browser):
Chrome:
Got to Settings >> System, then turn off "Use hardware acceleration when available".
Microsoft Edge:
Same, got to System >> System and Performance, then turn off "Use hardware acceleration when available".
This should allow you to then use Print Screen or your snipping tool to capture the images. This can, however, reduce the quality of the video, so keep that in mind if you want to watch videos in quality in the future, just turn the setting back on.
How could Moraine have planned Rand to come to Cairhein when he literally could have gone anywhere in the world after leaving her at the Eye?
The implication is that Rand would track down Logain to learn to channel. But this is dumb. Esp if there is another false dragon (Taim) who isn't gentled.
@@amys0482also: why would Rand have to work his way up in the sanatorium for months, loosing precious time, while Moiraine could have given him immediate access? It is really dumb.
With everything said, I just want to add that I personally can't stand Ishamael's interpretation in the show. He is nothing like Ishamael in the books. He's not menacing, he's soft spoken, he's not insane, etc. Everytime I see him on screen, I just think it's Nandor from "What We Do in the Shadows."
Haha, that's hilarious; thank you for that image.
I want to know why Moiraine would think that Logain would know where Rand was staying, and how Logain actually knew, he's not exactly in a position to get information like that.
So many things like that.
Rand told him in an off camera conversation.
I'm thinking that the Forsaken regeneration ability serves to:
- make them more powerful-looking immediately; no need for all the book lore expo when we can have another scene of a Two Rivers person having Feelings!
- be an easier sell of main character arc/progression by showing external challenges met rather than interior neuroticism conquered
- allow consolidation of and "reuse" of Forsaken characters, which saves cast salary and reduces the scorecard that viewers (especially non-readers) have to keep track of.
I'll add that I'm provisionally okay with this. I thought the last scene actually rocked, probably even more so for the non-bookers, because it told the viewers that there are much, much worse things in this world than the hideous Fades. Natasha O'Keeffe is excellent. Also, the music for that scene, continuing into the outro/credits, is superb.
Liked the discussion of "evil" in the books. Agree with other commentators that there is no need for clips from the show. The better parts are when you give your own opinion and analysis rather than just recapping what happened in the show.
You've hit on something important, which is that the show wants everyone to be dark and traumatized. There are no fun or even nice people, except maybe Elaine's, i guess time will tell on her. Book Mat is fun. Thom is fun. Min is a nice, considerate and wholesome relationship in Rand's life. Show Mat is a degenerate. Show Thom robs the boys and came across as a jerk. Min is working for the Blacks and the forsaken. No one is nice, fun, or even likable.
Commenting for the algorithm. Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed review.
I didn't find the ending to be realistic at all. If a woman ran into my room and stabbed the woman I loved, I would not run out with her.
Did I say it was realistic? Rand has no trust in Moiraine so after choking her I am not sure what was reasonable for him to do. A stretch to say he loved Selene though
@@amys0482 You didn't say that. I'm just complaining about the show! I think the show wants us to believe that he loves her even if he didn't say the word. At the very least it could be a lower case l type of love.
I appreciate you doing this; it would hurt my heart too much to watch
Thanks for these reviews. I look forward to all your thoughts this season
I tweeted about the mopping as soon as I saw it.
The warder simping was weird and fan boy, I don’t think we need more reminders how Nynaeve is perfect.
You are not in the minority based on streaming minutes season 2 has about 37.87878788% of season ones viewership
I was surprised that they got a Season 3 renewal - I fear they won't be able to finish the series before cancellation
@@vasudev1258they got a two season renewal at the end of season one.
Where did you get that from? I'm very interested. Rotten Tomatoes has season 2 with a higher audience score.
@@zeussedai3909 audience score means nothing what matters is number of reviewers.
That said my number is based upon season 1 1.6 bil minutes premier which is about 11mil unique viewers.
Season 2s number come from flix patrol which is 1bil minutes with longer episodes I used 60 minutes as the episode length.
Flix patrol is the site for minutes viewed as of September 9th
So: 1,000,000,000/4/60= 4,166,666.6666667
New/old(100) = 37.87878788% of first seasons viewers returned.
Mind you season 2 episode 1 is 68 minutes, episode 2 is over 60 and episode 4.
Also remember typically when a new season drops you see a 18% uptick because people rewatch existing episodes to refresh. The fact that we don't see a uptick of 18% but rather a downtime on longer episodes is telling.
1 6bil first season should be about 1.9bil this season I'd it was successful.
@@zeussedai3909 season 1 on RT HAS 5000+ reviews and 60% audience score.
It has 91 critical reviews
Season 2 has 1000 reviews for 85%
Which is a down tick of 4k reviewers
And 26 critical reviews which is a down ti k of about 70.
So while the score will be higher 85 - 60 what matters is the number of people actually reviewing it.
For example compare to lord of the rings fellowship a 95% rating with 250k reviews.
The more sample size you have the greater that perception you can draw from the public.
So combined with the numbers in my other message it's a clear picture.
We can also look at Google search analytics and unlike first season this season does not have the same level of a spike in searches
"Pretty good if you don't think about it..." Not for me (a non-reader of the books), it wasn't, even if I could forget the word "adrenaline" issuing from a fantasy character in a faux-medieval world. 😂
Talking on cliffs, talking by campfires, talking on chairs, talking in rooms - lots of talking, and nearly all of it simultaneously too brief to conjure interest and too bloated to win approbation. As I've been doing almost consistently throughout the second season, I squirmed with impatience. The first scene between Egwene and Nynaeve, for example, didn't need a single word of dialogue and, just like almost everything else in this sad excuse for entertainment, went absolutely nowhere. The pair are YA friends - we get it.
Neither do I see S2's "improved" production values - quite the contrary, in fact. Many scenes take place in the cheap out-of-doors, and the other sets are mostly reused from S1.
There's no mistaking a wolf for a dog - Hopper is a good boy, and that's all. 🙂
I use the excellent NCH software for sound editing, but one can also purchase a video editor. A dedicated graphics card is a must, of course, and so is a computer which doesn't crash with regularity. I'd check for viruses, Amy, and for too many anti-virus programs running at once, and make sure that I wasn't using an administrator account in my everyday work. (If you're not familiar with administrator and user accounts, please visit the official Microsoft website and get up to speed - it's one of the best and easiest ways to safeguard yourself.)
I don't think you need worry much about copyright strikes. Just throw up screenshots briefly and talk over them. The generally accepted rule, informed by various court decisions, is that any copyrighted material, especially with voice-over commentary and/or criticism, can be displayed for a maximum of ten seconds. To be especially fastidious, you might employ picture-within-picture and fiddle with color and orientation.
PS: Further to one of our earlier exchanges, I'd like to recommend the four-hour TV miniseries SON OF THE MORNING STAR (1991), available freely on TH-cam. This is a superb retelling of the events leading to the Seventh Cavalry's annihilation, which is itself recreated in an hour-long sequence of painstaking historical fidelity. It's history as it really happened, convincingly told from all of the many points of view, and what Hollywood could accomplish before it was polluted by its present crowd of Maoist fifth columnists. 🙂
My friend who has not read the books thinks the Forsaken are demons
Before Jordan had worked through his ideas he originally was going with an alien warlord named Sa'khan from another dimension who had half human half demon forsaken minions. So maybe they are on to something :P Would be interesting to go to an alternate dimension to read that version of the series if that is the one that made it to print in that parallel universe.
In the books, the Seals get weaker due to the corruption of the Dark One.
No one frees themselves. When the seals break, they get released.
I just mean Ishy didn't release her. The seal weakens and she wriggles out. We don't actually see this
Would've been more interesting to see him waiting for her when she gets out. Possibly with a fresh change of clothes and a "While you were sleeping..." update.
You also need the forsaken to fight because otherwise they would have won trivially.
Wasnt the Lanfear poem inscribed on the seal of her prison? So if that pirate guy had a piece of quendiar from that seal that would imply it was broken and she was free.
I could totally be wrong though
I mean maybe. But is it an incantation or just a poem. I just don't quite follow how the poem being on a piece of parchment is so revelatory.
Regarding the Aes Sedai family scenes: we have an aged sister for Moiraine, an aged son for Liandrin and yet for Alanna? Are these Alanna's great grandchildren? Or has Alanna never had any time for channelling as her warders keep her too busy?
One thing about this review vs other episodes you've done, I highly appreciate you taking a more academic tone to assessing the writing and spending less (but more targeted) time to sidebars of your opinion. Not that I don't want to hear your personal opinion, it's just the pure writing assessment is more interesting to me personally.
The balance between the two in this video is spot on perfect. Keep it up!
I don't think they could even switch to being a good show with good writing at this point, it would make the pacing even more funky trying to marry it with everything they've tried to establish so far. The writing is really really bad, witcher gets a lot of flak for its writing and this is even less fluid and consistent in pacing.
Great review as always though, you always have strong arguments and make good points.
I don't care what they did to Rings of Power or to Star Wars, but Wheel of time was one of my favorite book series. I was baffled by this abomination of a show. The writers and showrunner somehow thought they can write a better story in a couple months of than someone who spent decades crafting it, as this in no way an adaptation but rewrite. They used the name of Wheel of time as a trojan horse to write their own low quality story. I was upset that not everyone was saying how bad the show was at the time. When the rings of power came out i was just laughing inside and just saying "Feel my pain"
HAHAHAHAHA I have to recognize your enthusiasm and hope for this show, Good luck with so much confidence.
I haven’t read the books, I watched the first three episodes of the show and was not compelled to continue. I’m enjoying your dissection out of curiosity and the love of the medium of “film”.
Sorry just to add, Nice Video Amy. You always have very thoughtful points, specially with regard to non readers. Thanks for the effort as usual. Just an idea, it does seem the show is almost relying on non readers to hopefully know some readers to potentially answer questions.
I think you put your finger on one of the huge issues is the lack of granger of the show. The story is not small it is huge. The whole world is at stake and Rand is at the center of it but not in the show.
Could the focus on the Aes Sedai families be a way of adding additional context to the Ajahs?
It's a waste of time... especially when the show-runner whines about not having enough screen time/episodes.
Worse, it's also a waste of budget.
I'm going to miss all the live reactions. Had some great conversations and fun with everyone. But I'm holding out until all episodes are up. I guess I feel that gives it the highest chance of me liking it. As opposed to picking episodes appart in the weeks between episodes.
My version of the wheel of time was chiseled into my brain way before anyone thought it was possible to put such a story to film. So it was highly likely it was never going to appeal to me. It wasn't made for me and that's fine. But I don't think the level of care necessary to get book fans on board was taken here. They would have been the greatest promotion for the show. It almost kind of felt changes where made just to upset book fans. You don't start out a successful series by alienating a large portion of it's fan base.
And if you think you can tell a better story tell your own story. Don't take another's vessel and life's work to live out your story telling fantasy's. It's like he's trying to out Wheel of time Jordan. And everyone knows how I'm talking about. "The Arrogance" Some script writer on the show apparently.
And Amy I'm sorry to miss out on watching as videos drop. But I guarantee I'm heading straight here after finishing the final episode. Thanks for all the content in advance.
Moiraine can still see the flows of the one power, sees verins flows at end of ep.1, so she must only be shielded. Though, thats book logic, so it may not apply. And why would logain need a knife to kill himself, he is in a stone courtyard with things to climb up and jump to his death from.
Which also means that she should be turning to other Aes Sedai to get the shield removed.
Stupid show-runner screwing up again.
Excellent review. Show-only fans think this is over-analyzing things but every single criticism you have is valid. The acting and production is great. The writing is abysmal.
I've not read the books, but I have enjoyed the TV series so far. The story does not appear incoherent and I'm assuming things which are not fully explained are intended to raise questions and pose some mystery in order to maintain viewers' interest in the future episodes. I'm still looking for reviews of the show from people/channels who haven't read the books...
I think I know how the story will end in the show. Rand and Mat will become new Forsakens, and it will be up to Moraine (remember, she is the main character here), the girls, and maybe Perrin and Liandrin to stop them and the Dark One.
Just Matt in my opinion
Recording is very easy with OBS. I stayed away from it for a long time believing it has to be complicated but it's not. You just open it and enable "Display Capture" and "Audio Output Capture", and then hit Start Recording. There are keyboard shortcuts that can be customized as well to start and stop. And once you stop the recording the video goes in Videos unless configure it otherwise, from where you can rename it and use it.
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The problem is that the writers think this is a romcom when it is a gothic romance, very different.
When I watched the 1st season, I hadn't read any of the books yet and I had no problem understanding what was happening. I understood what the writers meant to be understood. As a viewer, I don't think I need to understand everything about this One Power, all I need to know is that it exists and that it can do this and that. It's a different media, they can't go on and on about certain topics because the actors and production are expensive, unlike a book where you don't have to pay for its countless characters who have all the time in the world to explain everything.
I'm in book 4 and I didn't know about this True Power, but I understood that Lanfear is very powerful and because she has a deep connection with the Dark One she has something special about her that doesn't let her die so easily and they have time to explain this later.
So, from my experience and from the reacts I watched, I don't know if it's true that non readers are having so much difficulty understanding, although I also think they don't explain things very well, but if you pay attention you can catch the clues.
What I think is that those who read the books are having a harder time understanding because sometimes the stories can get mixed up and these people think that the rules in the books work in the show too, either because it hasn't been said otherwise or because they think that these rules won't be adapted as well.
Personally, I'm enjoying the show. It's far from perfect, but it's entertaining me just like the books are far from perfect. I don't like the books because of the writing style and some very weird stuff (👀) that RJ put in there, but I like the overall story.
Does anyone know what Harriet’s opinion of the show is?
think the 30 silver pieces were enough for her
Not to my knowledge. If I was her, I wouldn't even watch it.
I totally agree with the trauma takes. This is the wheel of trauma show
Appreciate your critiques! I have and continue to agree with basically all of your points.
For whatever reason, this was the episode that bothered me the least, was easiest to not think about the books, didnt pull me out with as much cringey dialogue, and for the first time actually felt like i was watching something approximating the wheel of time. This could simply be me finally learning to turn off my brain 😂
I think mostly i enjoyed that we got some actual worldbuilding, some level of urgency/suspense/plot happening, and the characterization felt more true to book characters (Moraine actually focused on getting to Rand such that i could forgive a bit of the unlikeable traits, Rand existing as a character, some wolfbrother teaching with Perrin)
Maybe i wasnt paying as much attention lol, but pacing of the episode also felt better.
They definitely have a lot of making up to do with worldbuilding/magics ie stakes and explanations. I can swallow a decent amount of changes if they are executed well. Which up until now has not been the case. This episode for me at least approached what i would consider competent. But i also havent been brave enough to rewatch 😅
Where are you gonna place the 3rd pwnis alanna dear
Outside the Lan scenes, this episode wasn't that bad. It felt more intentional and contained, with exciting twists, the strength of which are that they come from the books (Liandrin's betrayal, Selene is Lanfear)
@@amys0482 I actually appreciated that Selene trying to seduce Rand was a thing Lanfear might do with Rand. 😅
@@jsbrads1 With less success, but yeah, there is that.
@@amys0482I was losing my mind with his treatment, primarily but not exclusively by Moiraine, in the prior episodes. Like I get it her experience is important, but important enough to justify gaslighting Lan? Not okay.
I'm assuming they may be really fast tracking Lan/Nynaeve arc? I dunno, not sure I particularly care, but I am relieved Lan is at least not near Moiraine for the time lol.
As for Alanna and her "warders".... i love a good sexual innuendo or joke more than the average person, but somehow, how theyve done it in this show, just cringe.
Again, I can't say thanks enough for sharing your thoughts and criticisms about the show! You've provided much needed affirmation for me, and presumably many others, through this unfortunate journey of wot-tv.
So disappointed how they have botched up a series that had the ENTIRE book rights.
It's true that the door could just resurrect Forsaken in the same body if they wanted to avoid the complications of different actors.😅
But... to me that's pretty much what the show is doing already. Lanfear dies, the Dark One brings her back.
It's just that they're doing it with saa in an attempt to provide a lore friendly explanation for why this might be possible (I'm assuming they'll explain the black flecks later).
And I'm sorta assuming that Moraine knows Lanfear can't be killed via the research she's been doing, though whether that will come up in show is anyone's guess.
Moraine being motivated by yhe poem makes sense because Doman presented it to her as having been an inscription on the cuendiar that was broken. So to her it means the seal that held Lanfear's prison is broken and Lanfear is free. Im not sure the green and her warders understood that inscription part.
Bear in mind, in the show, Rand thinks he's already defeated the Dark One. So at this point, he's really just trying to find solution for learning to channel and not going mad. His first effort, working with Logain, has failed, so he's now completely adrift. I miss the whole "learning to lead" plot from the Great Hunt, but the season one ending obviously precluded that, so I guess this is ... fine?
Would love to hear more of your perspective on the books absent the show. I always felt, and I think the fandom generally(I obv could be wrong abt fandom lol), that Mat's luck really begins after his healing at the Tower in book 3. He is a fan of gambling before, so I'd love to hear your perspective on things like that in more depth with examples from text. I know how busy life gets, but Lanfear, Mat, and other character examinations would be cool.
It's just an opinion but I think Mat is lucky from birth. The bigger the risks, the better the luck. That he doesn't become a puppet of Mordeth is extremely lucky. His luck starts being more obvious when his connection to the dagger is dissolved, but it's still based on risk.
@@amys0482 Never thought of it like that, one more reason to start another re-read. Thanks!
Great review. I enjoy your content.
Thank you for the interesting video. Without you and Liene's Library, this would be a very dull and confusing watch. Totally okay without clips; it means I can listen whilst doing other things.
Ahhh dang, just when we had that connection being Elayne fans, you fly the flag for Tuon - such a shame :P
Tuon is fascinating.
Ahh, you and your pesky adherence to quality writing and complex characters ;) @@amys0482
Thanks, Amy; I appreciate your take. We spent so much time trying to teach certain men not to hit women in the 80s and 90s, but shows like this seem to be ok with their heroes abusing women. That behavior makes me dislike the characters. You do a great presentation with very good insight. Thanks so much for what you do.
As a book fan frustrating to see main characters of the books, like Mat, get less attention than Liandrin and obscure warders ....
This version of the wheel seems like the writers are making it for people they believe are stupid. No well-timed exposition, no concept of time from season to season, aged up characters with adolescent intelligence. Liandrin is good though
Kate Fleetwood is giving a remarkable performance of Liandrin, to the point that non book readers didn't "get" her betrayal in ep.4 and think maybe she has a good reason to body slam nyneave and co.
@amys0482 Well, having read the books. I'm impressed the show/fleetwood pulled that off, actually.
Who knows where this show is going.
I think they try to set up that Alanna has no respect for boundaries, as Set up for her later transgression against Rand
Her later transgression is after she goes thru a very traumatic event which can mitigate her liability even tho it cannot absolve her.
@@jsbrads1 Yes, but then Alanna is currently in the position that Myrelle was in the books and we know what she did with Lan. I get the feeling that they have combined these two.
@@gildor8866 yes, I agree: she is Alanna and Myrelle combined
So many fake-out deaths make any threats seem meaningless. Why worry about being attacked or dying since (apparently) people never die in this world?
They don't in the books either but the tension is higher because there aren't fakeouts
Nynaeve has fake died 4 times already by my count.
@@amys0482that’s a bit unfair - s1e08 had too many.. but it’s not like the books don’t have a bunch. Think about Mat (tree, darkhound, rahvin, wall).
@@wotsummary302 Eh, putting characters in danger is different from fake killing them for fake tension but I'll still give that a nod.
I agree with your review 100%. Great review. I think your takes are exact to my way of thinking. Episode 3 was so much better but Episode 4 was confusing and the whole Lan peeing seen and that whole dynamic is unnecessary imo
You're doing great work. I feel like my toenails are being ripped out when I tried to watch this show so thanks for giving me a run down on it as I can't be bothered.
True power was part of eotw prologue. The real introduction was in shadow rising.
That soon?
@@amys0482 Ishy uses it multiple times. We as the reader don't know what it is until it's explained later.
I might be wrong but the forsaken didn't get well in the books and rarely worked together willingly. The more I am watching the series the more I am getting confused or frustrated by how far they butchered the source material. I don't get the explanation of show producers they had to squish the material of many books into one season, but at the same time there is so much trash scenes and characters who never existed. It feels they didn't like or read the books but why selling this show as adaptation then.
On the poem - it’s translated just before the sex scene at the end. “Daughter of the Night, she walks again. The ancient war, she yet fights. Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.”
“Lanfear” translates to daughter of the night in the old tongue - hence why you hear her name from Ishy at the opening of the episode.
So someone like Moiraine knows it’s Lanfear and probably knows she is after Rand.
No nothing indicates a connection so just no.
I know the poem is a prophesy and that lanfear is daughter of the night. I don't know why Moiraine, and esp Alannah, believe Lanfear has been freed because a trader gave them this scrap of prophesy.
@@amys0482Allanah I’ll give you. (Although I guess she is taking it seriously because Moiraine is)
But Moiraine was shown proof (the broken cuendillar) that it was legit. If you can excuse the pun - it has a seal of authenticity.
So I find it reasonable that if the unbreakable seal/stone is broken, it could indicate something similar to what happened at the eye.
A potential complaint with this poem - in s1 Lan can translate the old tongue. If he truly doesn’t know what it said, then there’s an issue.
(And for the record - the Lan/Moiraine stuff seems a mess. So I don’t want to defend her decision to leave Lan, just her decision to go to Cairhien (assuming she knows Rand was there + the broken seal + the prophecy)
@@wotsummary302 How would this piece of a newly broken seal even be picked up by a trader and made known to moiraine to then make this other trade in this time period? who visited this place? How was the inscription captured if it was already broken, or is it a well known location and famous? The fundamentals are soup.
@@amys0482it was described as “the old moon dial” in ep1. So I guess it’s a somewhat known location. The timeline as given was that it shattered “one night this spring”. And then Domon picked it up a couple of months back.
I’m going to assume Moiraine’s using pigeons to notify her eyes and ears (mentioned in the show) that she wants to trade for AOL items/info perhaps. Or maybe about the seals in particular if they are known (since it had a name)
They were obviously riffing on the scene with Leya, but Domon as a antiquities fan makes more sense. (Did you catch he was the 20th visitor)
The timeline is tight, but WoT has always had wibbly wobbly timelines, so I don’t worry about it too much.
Rand who is supposed to be good with a blade is deliberately made to be a bungling buffoon while wonder woman Nynaeve who should literally have ZERO skill with a blade is incredibly skilled. Not only good enough to spar with TWO warders but she actually managed to kill a trollock with a blade, far more than Rand has ever managed to do. In fact the only thing he has ever done with his sword is get easily DISARMED like a child... TWICE, even having his own sword used against him. An obvious intent by the writers to humiliate him for no practical reason. But of course this and all the other intentional and obviously maliciously misandrist changes have nothing to do with ideology... even tho the people involved have clearly stated from their own mouths that their intent is to inject feminist ideology into the show.
I think the bond in the show works more like the a'dam in the books. I think Moraine put the bond "on a peg" somewhere. So from Lan's perspective the bond is still there. Or better said "the leash" is still there.
It really hurts your brain making sense of how things work in this show. Like you said, shut your brain if you want to enjoy this show.
Thanks. So many people just simping for the show. There are so many issues. The story is makes basically no sense, plot holes galore. And its boring as fuck.
I wonder if shes desperare for Rand to learn to channel so he can break her shield. Just a maybe thought.
22.5 minutes and I'm already yelling at my screen. "Exactly!" "Thank you!" ya know, the usuals. You described Tar Valon as university meets convent, and where children are completely detached from family. You've just described the Jedi Temple from Star Wars, ep. 1& 2. George Lucas sorta already told this story, only without the added depths you described for how Robert Jordan tapped into all the reasons that could motivate people to act evil other than the Dark One.
Moraine masked the bond before Two Rivers which was torture for Lan.
Then Moraine released the bond on Lan before she lost her ability to channel.
Not following that. She masked it before the Eye. But it is either masked and still there or severed and gone.
@@amys0482 the bond is still masked. She said as much in Ep 8 when Lan asked to do so. With her being shielded, she can't undo it. Also explains why Lan is not on a self-destructive mission, which I think he would be if she was stilled.
I also think she released to bond just before went to the eye, as she expected to die there (she said multiple times, that anyone going there ecxept the Dragon would die). Togehter with the Steppin plot, that makes sense. After the eye, she then realized that everything she did worked out differently than expected and has to find her path again.
@@leza4453 Is releasing a bond something Sanderson made up? I only remember it happening that once in Memory of Light. It seems to me that it would have been done more if it was possible.
@@amys0482 I think so. E did it to E and A to R in aMoL, so it is technically book canon (shortend the names bc spoilers)
Thanks!
This episode was the best episode of both season 1 and 2.
Mainly because it finally explained some things for us non-book readers.
But in general WoT is quite underwhelming.
Always enjoy your breakdowns. Sad the writing on the show is so lazy
Nothing in this show is intentional. The writers are hacks. They're just butchering everything about the series.
I think you have just a different perspective, I've read WoT until book 7 or 8, don't remember almost ten years ago. it was a comfy read. But at least the first two books were pretty messy. Later in the books Jordan neatly puts pieces in order and the world-building comes alive and thought out. Characters have motivations and are fleshed out, one could say exceptionally. While I liked the adventure of the first few books so I didn't care about inconsistencies or events, that felt almost random...but I didn't mind them. You are coming from the perspective of an avid WoT fan, who is a purist, perhaps you read the series multiple times. I don't hate the show, It is OK. I wish only there were more episodes in the season. To let the story breathe. I am willing to let them cook and hope they have an idea or somewhat clear vision of what they want to do. The first season was very messy but Covid and stuff and who knows. Choices were made.
But they had two years. And if they were smart they take their time to listen to fans, criticism etc.
edit, I like fantasy and it is rare for sword and sorcery with real magic to come to small screens. GoT, godawful Rings of Power are more soft fantasy. So I like to see some magic action.
For this season, they must explain the pattern, ta'verens, dreamworld, and important stuff. they can change it but make it not dumb...because people will zone out if Horn of Valere is just a McGuffin that is not explained. I expect some high-concept fantasy, not just Dark One and Bargain Orcs (trollocs) and Nazgûls (fades)... it worked for LoTR because it is LoTR but this series is very complex and there are a lot of moving pieces and TV adaptation must be ambitious, so I hope the creators will find a way to translate that in storytelling.
So what I think is the solution to that problem?
Verin!
Verin is always solution!
Verin is the ideal character to unload the tone of exposition on young heroes and viewers alike in her own perfect-as-she-is way...And I wouldn't mind if I was a non-book reader to scratch my head and ask wtf is this weird lady talking but I am intrigued.
If they mess up Verin I will write off this show as fail. But will still watch it because it looks pretty.
We’ll see. They haven’t forshadowed the Seanchan well. Ishamael is overtaking the Seanchan and not giving them room to breathe as their own culture. I get the vibe they’ll be a generic villain than unique entity, but I’m open to it improving.
Also Rand barely gets a chance to progress and develop his own thoughts. He moves from being confused under Moiraine’s influence to being confused under Selene’s influence. He didn’t get the training through Lan or conversations with male figures. Only Logain gives him some guidance and he’s a lunatic in the show.
Most of the male characters are being manipulated by women and I don’t know how they will quickly upskill to the positions they will inhabit soon
Moraine is taking too much space, and not just her. Lan too, their relationship is not what matters now, Pike and hanney are stars of the show, but that is a blunder. I like Moraine but she is not main character. She is a guide and support for boys and girls. And I really think that she should have take back stage.
Girls in the tower are on point and Liandrin is a superior version to mean girl from the books. I think they should've cut Selene part all together and introduce lanfear later as she was making moves later in the books. her ploy to seduce Rand was a bust in the books and as it seems in show and i do not see point of her character being introduced at this point in the story.
I never liked Rand having so many love interests in books, I do not remember but there a are five of them. I didn't like that in the books it was messy and confusing, so Egwenne is not going to be his love, Elayne was love at first sight BS, that leaves Min and Lanfear and Avi? and... dunno. My brain hurts.
In series Rand did fall for he and she did have delusions of loving him. i would love to watch that unfold in more nuanced way later on.
Seanchan are bad news and are real threat and I strongly agree that Ishamael at a front of that threat diminishes them as just goons for him. Making them Dark friends right on for me is not a good move and i still hope that Ishy is there either as spectre or is in disguise hoping to use them or something. They actually look great and and brutal and having Ishy struggle to control them would be interesting to see. Like they don't give afuck, they just want what they believe is theirs.
@@kuvrut7747 idk how they’re going to handle the love interests. They have 8 episodes each season and need to establish love interest with plot and also how they get along with each other. Maybe they brush it off because of how open the shows seems about alternative dating lifestyles (Alanna thruple etc)
Agree about Moiraine. I’m thinking Cadsuane may replace her not long from now and end it there. Also not sure what they’ll do with Thom Merillin
@@remixisthis oh no they are not gonna have love hexagons. Thom is dearly missing and will not be in this season. But this Thom was barely Thom. He was cool but acted more Like a gruff jaded Cowboy. Who knows. What is urgent for Rand to step up and for Mat to get his Mojo. Show needs to explain how important ta'varens are. Pattern. Rand is not likable, but he doesn't have to be, but must grow in character. For now nynaeve is still second main character after Moraine. And she is extremely powerful character, but in this season term Dragon reborn was not mentioned even once.. when Logain saw him in the streets of white tower they missed opportunity to show how Logain saw him. He was just glinting with some aftereffects. They should make it like a blazing sun. We will see. I am invested.
Only sound from one ear, switching to mono I guess
sorry.
This show is physically hurting me. I hate Rafe Judkins for what he's done to my favorite fantasy series.
A few thoughts,
Lanfear's 'death' needs some explaining for non book viewers, but as it was the climax of the last episode, I'd give them some time to clear this whole thing up. Explanations in the show have been brisk and sweeping, or lacking altogether. This might be due to time constraints, or because they are holding back the explanations until later. The implication that each Forsaken is trapped within their own large and static seal is quite a departure. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that. Pretty sure the picture was Moiraine and her little sister, to ram home the difference in aging rates. On Logain teaching Rand, He may have some tips depending on his awareness of what he did when he could channel. It's not a good option, but there is a complete lack of alternatives. I think the show is overplaying the Moiraine stilling/shielding plotline, and the effect of its relationship with Lan, while not really explaining the magical details. I guess that's a personal choice, but I have heard others say it. Rand seems to think he has won the Last Battle, and is trying to avoid going mad and killing all those he loves. I think they keep showing Mat losing at gambling to emphasise the luck when he starts winning lots, it's just laying groundwork.
In general I'm liking the show. There are plenty of differences though, and the focus isn't entirely where I'd have liked it to be. It seems that people who haven't read the books are following along and picking up the main points, and that there are plenty of details that you notice on a rewatch. For me it's tough to know to what extent the tossed in names and references that book readers will know are foreshadowing or just 'easter eggs'. Your comments on the Aes Sedai family thing has me thinking that this would really be an issue if an Aes Sedai decided that they should work to help their personal dynasty, but I'm hoping we don't go there.
Nice to hear your thoughts on it all.
Jerk Moiraine saving Horny Rand was the worst scene to date.
The show is much more enjoyable if I just totally detach it from the real WoT and watch it as some generic fantasy show.
Weakest episode so far this season which has been alright to me. Felt like a filler episode.
Don’t know how they’ll wrap everything up in 4 episodes without watering down the story more.
Lan is LYING about the bond being masked then severed.
I’m not sure this is true.
Based on book lore the mask can only be manipulated by the channeler. Imo, this implies that if she were stilled the bond would not simply be masked but torn from Lan. The fact that he’s not aware of this tells me she is shielded/cut off. I’m when Moir goes through the doorway with Lanfear she doesn’t die but is stilled-Lan feels this pain as if she has died. But who knows with the way they’ve written this show… the Lan and Moir storyline is by far the worst and most confusing for this book reader.
Came back to say I think maybe you’re right? But…I’m still not sure if she’s truly severed? I don’t know!
I'm loving season 2. Yes, the plots are different, but the essence of the books (2 and 3, and even some from New Spring) are there. Some of the scenes are 95% 1:1s (The accepted test, and even Liandrin teaching Nynaeve). They had a mess from ep 8 in Season 1 and yes some things they have not explained, but I'm fine with them moving on over those mistakes. Season 2 for me is allowing me to see new Wheel of Time content, where I can theorize and speculate on what's going to happen. Honestly, how boring would it be as book readers if we knew 100% all the time what is going to happen. The quality of the show in general is at least 2 points per episode higher in my rating vs the season 1 ones. My view is, if one can turn off these are the differences part of the brain then you can enjoy the quality of the show, its actors (who for me are doing fantastic jobs portraying their characters, the show is also making more nuanced characters for us as well), and what the show is trying to accomplish in hopefully 8 seasons. Season 2 in general is just good TV, the special effects are amazing, the costumes and set design. Another thing to think about, we're not going to get another adaption, specially if this one fails.
When you say the "essence" of the books is there what do you mean? I agree with you that we'll likely never get another adaptation and that saddens me to no end. But, again, I think I agree that so far season 2 is better than the last one. In fact, the best way to consume this show would probably be to skip season 1 entirely and just go from 2. Nuke it from orbit, ya know?
@@99althor By Essence, I mean the basic overall plot lines. Not watching Season 1 I would mostly agree with and say just go watch the recaps on TH-cam. But then the logic brain that says Amazon are tracking every watch and the more, the better, Rafe will get more leeway to make longer episodes and more money. The new characters this season are soo good though, Elayne, Verin... The show is even making me even like Liandrin. @amys0482 I think the show arc for Rand is more book 3, just a thought.
Look if Rafe cleans up his shitty choices then I'm sure the series is a save. But, really the answer is just more source material and less Amazon/Rafe changes.@@zeussedai3909
Thank you for being insightful and critical about this show without crying about "woke diverse agendas" or whatever. Everything is a culture war issue now, but I really like the casting choices in the show. Is there a lack or chemistry between a lot of characters? Absolutely, but that's a writing problem, not a casting problem.
I'm getting pretty sick of mopey Lan though. The forced conflict between Lan and Moiraine is obviously meant to keep those actors and characters relevant in a story where they originally become less and less important, but I hate how it's been handled. Every time Lan makes a sarcastic quip I cringe. And in dialogue they insist that Lan is still a quiet, stoic character, despite him being like two steps removed from a Marvel character at this point.
My impression of Moiraine and her just awful, bully-like behavior is that the writers have decided to roll the character of a different, very forceful Aes Sedai into Moiraine that doesn't show up til much later. The times they have name dropped this other Aes Sedai are just easter eggs, we won't see her. (Trying to avoid spoilers for non book readers. Please read, they're so good!)
Okay so this response is going to contain spoilers through book 14 right out of the gate so be warned.
The Closing scene.
Watch the ending of the books. Everything is being directed at the end of each arc (where the story *must* go). So much of what has been being done is telling a coherent season while foreshadowing things that are coming. What I absolutely loved about the end scene is that it foreshadows several things we know are coming. For starters it foreshadows the conflict between her and Moiraine. It also (and I find this to be the really cool part) foreshadows her fate at the end of the books. That's right Lanfear is alive and free after the last battle. That's canon.
Your interpretation of Lanfear in the show is comical. Nah this cannot be done for visual effect. Nah we are just going to assume that it was the True power that healed her even though the scene didn't actually show the true power healing her. I am just going to make conjecture and pretend like my conjecture if fact.
So we do know the one power (and we can assume that the true power) grants extra-human healing. To what degree we don't actually know, but we do know that it's a thing. Is that how she survives or is it that in conjunction with Ishy's intervention? I don't know I guess we will just have to watch and find out. Also we are just barely pulling from book 5 (and I do mean barely). Which book are the forsaken shown to be petty and human and with flaws? I will give you a hint. It's not book 1. It's not book 2. It's not book 3. Go on. Guess. The answer might surprise you.
This is why I think you are a dishonest hack. Because you fail to mention where in the book series the thing you are criticizing the show for not doing something happens. The show is 18% of the way through. The books get 35% of the way through before the thing you are talking about even starts to happen. But we cannot admit that now can we? What I am being served by you so far is a pseudo-intellectual claptrap which pretends to be a reasoned and thought out discussion about the show and the books. Notice how when you talk about the books and details about the books you do so in only the most vague generic way so that you can maximize the difference and ignore the similarities. No detail so that someone can go double check what you are saying without a lore masters knowledge of the books.
Okay so treating 9:32 with more charity than the rest of the comment so far. Ishy is using the true power. In the books how and when the forsaken are freed as well as how or where they are imprisoned isn't really discussed in the books. The fan theory (and its just a fan theory) is that they are trapped in the world of dreams.
About Rand. You are projecting too much onto the story. At this point Rand knows he is the Dragon yes. He also thinks he defeated the dark one.
The Lan piss scene. It's amazing how much you can miss even when the scene spells it out for you explicitly. It's almost like you either are not paying attention or intentionally being deceptive. Why have that scene? to make clear that he isn't being left alone for even a moment. He is being given zero privacy and constantly watched out of concern. It's also meant to explain why Lan hasn't read the letter he stole from Moiraine.
About the bond. There is a question as to if she can unmask the bond. If she can I would assume the reason she hasn't done so is because she expect Ishy to kill her and this might provide Lan a greater chance at survival.
33:50 "Elyas has mentioned that he has been following Perrin or known about Perrin four months now. This is a mistake in the script." Okay so this lie was so absurd that I actually had to go back and re-watch the scene with captions on. *From the closed caption* "You have been sending us images for months now.". That is right he does *not* say "You have been sending us images four months now." but actually says "for months.". When you cannot find something wrong just lie about it. Bel Tine takes place in the spring. It's been five months since Fal Dara, six months since Mat was captured.
More lying this time about the bond. "As if he doesn't know it's possible to mask the bond.". No my dear heart, the reason he is so surprised is because it's culturally not accepted to mask the bond for such extended periods of time. Masking the bond interferes with the Warders ability to do their job. Is it a rule not to mask the bond for so long? No. Do people think it's a rule? Yes. Masking it defeats the purpose of the bond.
Does Moiraine think she is stilled? Previously I thought yet, but this episode made me change my mind. I do think she thinks ishy is going to kill her because that would be the smart thing for ishy to do.
Again I repeat. Rand thinks he killed the dark one. Of course he is attempting to figure out how to not channel and to return to a normal life (which is his motivations in the show and in book 2 and 3). But hey I guess we are here now. Just inventing contradictions where there are not so that we can claim there is a contradiction.
Dude... I enjoy your takes on the material but you are hateful and disrespectful to this content creator who made the video you found intrigueing enough to watch and comment on. You are way out of line and should check yourself. I like your appreciation for the books and giving the show the benefit of the doubt.
@@leza4453 Thank you for taking your time to respond, I appreciate the feedback. Something to take note of is that you found it necessary to tone police me for being "hateful and disrespectful" towards her, but you did not find it necessary to here or elsewhere to tone police Amy for her hate and disrespect towards the people working on the show.
Beginning with the being disrespectful, we should make sure that we are not conflating respect and politeness. The amount of respect I am giving Amy and the amount which she deserves is the amount equal to that which she gives the hard working people working on the show. Ignore the disclaimer she gives in the video about how she recognizes the hard work people are doing etc. Actually look at the way she talks about the people working on the show, and look at the way she talks about the art they produce. It's like one of those challanges "tell me you hate and disrespect the people without telling me you hate and disrespect them."
*To be clear* the issue I take with Amy is nothing personal, nor is it with the fact that she doesn't enjoy the show. Different people have different tastes and that is not something to morally condemn someone over. My issue isn't even with the fact that she doesn't know the lore as well as I do. Honestly while I am not the most versed in the lore, that said I am aware of the fact that I am more aware of the lore than the average reader (though nowhere near a lore master). It's not reasonable for me to expect people even people who talk about it on the internet to be as aware of the lore as I am.
My issue with Amy is that she is hateful and disrespectful towards the people who have worked very hard to provide the best adaptation they could given the limitations and difficulties they have to work with.
I am reflecting Amy's attitudes and behavior towards the people working on the show back at her. Your assessment tells me that I am doing it correctly. My actual personal feelings towards the content creator were neutral (even though I reflected her behavior and attitudes back at her). That changed when she arrogantly and narcissistically declared to me in a comment that she could write the first two season (the prequel and first three books) better than the people working on the show.
I am perfectly in line with the behavior Amy is directing at the people working on the show.
@@alananimus9145 No you are not. You just went smug, strawmaned, patronized and ad hominem your way through your comments, I can point you where you did that if you are not aware. I can not point in anyway where Amy did that on her comments and, by the way, her opinion. You do not need to be a defence attorney for the show. Less on the bully side.
Her comments on the show reflect many of us who love the books. The same fault you find on lack of evidence on Amy's part can be found in your analysis. And cherry-picking some points about this episode, you ignored, most likely, that the show as for long derailed from the books. Before you find fault in my comments, I have to tell you I rage quitted on season 1, episode 5 for all the mess and disrespect on characters and story. I have a friend that is liking the show, but it is obvious he does not remember the books, his wife had him as a guide to understand, and another friend who is of the same view as me, and got to the end of season 1.
You want disrespect for those who work on the show? I can show you disrespect. This video was not disrespect.
th-cam.com/video/yoVLESYmuNs/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/5W8vOf5ePn0/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUNa25pZ2h0cyB3YXRjaA%3D%3D
Go and write to them for all that they care.
"I am going to point out how the writing of the TV show does not tell a coherent story without someone who has read the books to interpenetrate..." Amy actively ignoring all of the non-book reader reactions on youtube. The fact that there are so many non-book readers who are watching the show and are managing to pick up on the very things you claim they need a book reader to interpret them means you either have a low expectation of viewers or... nope that's it.
Okay we are one minute in and I am buckled in for the twelfth ride. Let's see how many things she can get wrong, interpret maliciously, contribute to malice, demand they answer instantly, claim they are answering too much, etc. At this point I really should just make a bingo card.
The ones I watched don't know what is going on. They don't know how the three oaths work, or the wolves, or the aes sedai, or anything unless they are looking it up on the internet or just don't care if it makes sense. A lot of people don't care. They watch TV for distraction. And that's fine. But it's not enough for people who wanted an actual adaptation.
@@amys0482 Two from the first season I would recommend are Everyday Negro's and Nightly Nerdy. No non-readers don't perfectly understand but they understand as much as the books have revealed. I hear a lot of people harping that viewers don't understand the magic system but that's a crap copout. The magic system in the first two books was so unwell defined that Jordan was able to completely change up how it works after book 2 and nobody noticed. So they have explained plenty. The magic system starts to be a system in book 3 but it's not until book 4 that its a full blown working system. The show has spelled out in detail what the three oaths are and referenced how and why the wording of the oaths are and what someone says is important. If viewers don't understand the three oaths it's because they are not paying attention to explicit material on screen.
The Aes Sedai. Here we actually have much more explanation in the show than we did in the books at 18% through the story. Sure there is information missing but the information that is missing is not relevant to the story at this point so the question I have is so what? The wolves. Again at this point in the books Jordan was just starting to formulate the wolfbrother and wolfbrother magic. By now yes it had been established that Perrin could talk with the wolves (that is back in book 1) but it wasn't really relevant to the first book and didn't need to happen in season 1. Instead it's being laid out closer to when the information is relevant.
alanani - How would you know that " so many non-book readers who are watching the show are managing to pick up on the very things you claim they need a book reader to interpret for them " ? Have you carried out a thorough survey of non-reader show watchers ? Or are you just making it up like a good little shill ?
@@LooseTheremin Actually yes I have. I have carried out a through survey of non-book reaction videos and have them chartered. They are in two categories watch only w/book readers, watch only w/o book readers. I have a spreadsheet with who knows what as well as theories they have come up with and if they are correct or not. This isn't just made up of dozens of people either. I have done this for every single Season 1 reaction, review, summary, or discussion video I could find.
Is it an official survey? No is it a good method of getting general idea as to what people are and are not picking up on it and why and how they are picking up on it? Yes.
My favorite thing is keeping track of all the wrong theories. This reminds me a lot of the theory crafting book fans did back in the day and how often our theories ended up being wrong. Then there is the gems where it's like "How the hell did you even pick up on that." Lmao.
I understand you hate the books and that you don't understand them at all. Others of us are obsessed with them and read them over a hundred times, we have actually read Jordan's notes and interviews. We have read every single page of the 13th depository and made "murder walls" to follow all the connections in the books. Most of us haven't but some of us are autistic, or just outright craycray.
@@alananimus9145 That's impressive, but I don't know that it is accurate. I think Addison from EN has looked things up or started reading the books or just gets a lot of information in comments on his videos. I talk to people in RL who dont have TH-cam channels and they are confused and most gave up in S1. The fandom keeps this going but the show has treated dedicated fans like you so discourteously it is hard to understand where the passion comes from. I think it is fine to like the show. I just don't think it is a good "adaptation" and I dont understand how anyone cam think it is.