I do "decent" damage with the non damage build. Usually around 40-45k overalls. I still get owned though. Even 4set + these recent buffs i feel squishy in 16 fortified this week
Explaining the new complexity highlights exactly why I don't like vengeance anymore. I enjoyed it in SL, but now it's just become another "track debuffs" class with some obscure DPS rotation. Thanks for articulating it for me as I wasn't able to do so myself
Is VDH any good? Ive been maining heals and cant remember healing one over a 10. I want to switch to tanking for a while and i dont want to go warrior and be a meta slave lol
I was pushing for 1st 2 weeks of DF s1 with VDH and was able to get around 18-20 keys last week but VDH is squishy as hell. Swapped to Prot Warrior this week and was able to tank 13 COS at 350 ilvl… insane… this week I start to push with my prot warrior and was able to go consistently with 17/18 keys with no tanking issues around 390 ilvl; my vdh at 403 is not good at chain pulling for high level keys so has to basically give it up for this season 😢😢😢 now I’m a meta slave and start to level all my other tank alts waiting to see when blizzard is gonna nerf warrior lmao
@@brice9013 gonna be hard to nerf since talent tree is pretty well built out and just tuning the numbers aren’t gonna cut it. Warriors tool kit is so much comprehensive than vdh or bear or monk 😂 unless they start to delete skills or make massive overhaul on warrior talents
@@Crispiegames they need to rework bear imo, monk skill floor is high and skill ceiling is higher. Vengeance might just need a tuning of their abilities a little mainly defensive or more stats. Like you said the warriors kit is just too good. I’d rather they buff the others and leave warrior how it is. It’s a good entry point but shouldn’t be the only viable tank at 20+
It stays consistent, you just dont need to Fiery Brand before using your big buttons like Hunt or Soul Carver. As long as you're building up to the stacks of frality before those, spending souls on spirit bomb, and spending fury on soulcleave, while generating when possible, youll be okay!
As a vengence tank, most of your survivability COMES from your DPS rotation, through your high leach stat and the souls you generate and spend. Do you have defensives? Yes, you have demon spikes and meta (and fiery brand, but that's better used for DPS) but these can't really be written into a generic rotation, and I do cover them in the video. Keep a charge of spikes rolling while tanking, use meta for dangerous pulls or tank hits. Executing your DPS rotation properly for vengeance is essential, as that will allow you to live.
2 months late, but still strongly agree about ppl should try talking about tanking like a DPS more, as this helps a lot in mythic+. In fact, this is the exact type of content I had been searching for a while, thanks for the great content
Can I ask why is fodder so good over ED? My fodder does crap damage and crap healing. I'm waiting to kill the demon in the packs but some runs I get like a ton of demons and some I get hardly any. The average dps and healing is about 700 and does only overall 600k damage when ED is doing almost 2 million damage.
A) it’s a great defensive, offering you a ton of healing when needed B) it’s another target to cleave off of, getting you more healing from Fel Dev/Frailty/Soul Bomb etc C) vengeance does a ton of damage now, and it’s soul gives you a 20% damage buff with a fairly decent uptime, leading to a big increase in your damage (and thus survivability) while also doing explosion damage Fodder is just overall the better option, if you feel you need snap threat or damage (which you shouldn’t since spirit bomb is so strong) then you can swap to it
@VooDooSaurus the thing with healing is I never seem to need it when the demon is up and I hold it but most the time I just don't need it. The damage is terrible I feel compared to ED. It just feels weak to me when comparing healing and damage. I'm not debating it is supposed to be better but I am just not seeing it. And when I look at others logs it ain't hardly doing anything. Idk ED feels better to me but I am only doing 10s and 11s atm
@@smokingcactus at a 10 or an 11 you won’t need the healing, and your gear may not be enough to fully benefit from the 20% amp from the soul. The thing with fodder is a lot of it’s benefit ISNT shown in logs or meters, because the amp it gives to the rest of your abilities. Whenever you kill the demon you just do 20% more damage for the next like 15-20 seconds, which is a sizeable increase
@VooDooSaurus when I compare 10s I know there is alot of variables but my dps is much higher when using ED. I'm sure later in higher keys like 15+ I will see a much bigger difference.
Soulcarver is a good damage increase. There was a thing pinned or mentioned somewhere in the Venge discord, essentially soulmonger leads to a lot of overhealing, and a lot of the talents value is wasted. However thats not to say its bad, and if you find you need the healing it can be very good
''fire damage is almost all of your damage as vengeance'' meanwhile soul cleave does 40% of your overall in ST , not to mention fracture. Your most damage as vengeance is high uptime of frailty stacks, the double fiery brand is only good on the training dummy where u don't have to hold ur defensives in order to not get 1 tapped by the mythic tank buster ability making the Frailty into middle build much better for realistic situations.
I don’t think this is true if you’re playing right. You should be taking advantage of the fiery brand debuff like was mentioned in the video. This is true both in raid and m+
Lost my B roll vengeance footage, so had to make do with stock backgrounds for this one, apologies but it still turned out well!
I liked it kept the focus on the spells. Was very clean gg.
It's crazy how much the game has improved by bringing back the talent tree. Wayyy more diversity in builds in playstyles
Excellent video bro, quality info here
Solid content bud, keep it going!
Appreciate it!
As always thanks for the great content. Like your videos!
Thanks for watching!
you recommand starting using spirit bomb at 2 or 3 targets?
I do "decent" damage with the non damage build. Usually around 40-45k overalls. I still get owned though. Even 4set + these recent buffs i feel squishy in 16 fortified this week
yea, same problem.
Explaining the new complexity highlights exactly why I don't like vengeance anymore. I enjoyed it in SL, but now it's just become another "track debuffs" class with some obscure DPS rotation. Thanks for articulating it for me as I wasn't able to do so myself
Is VDH any good? Ive been maining heals and cant remember healing one over a 10. I want to switch to tanking for a while and i dont want to go warrior and be a meta slave lol
Its good for sure, not prot warrior good but it has great damage and survivability
I was pushing for 1st 2 weeks of DF s1 with VDH and was able to get around 18-20 keys last week but VDH is squishy as hell.
Swapped to Prot Warrior this week and was able to tank 13 COS at 350 ilvl… insane… this week I start to push with my prot warrior and was able to go consistently with 17/18 keys with no tanking issues around 390 ilvl; my vdh at 403 is not good at chain pulling for high level keys so has to basically give it up for this season 😢😢😢 now I’m a meta slave and start to level all my other tank alts waiting to see when blizzard is gonna nerf warrior lmao
@@Crispiegames lol maybe ill do the same, ill level warrior to have some fun before they nerf it lol
@@brice9013 gonna be hard to nerf since talent tree is pretty well built out and just tuning the numbers aren’t gonna cut it. Warriors tool kit is so much comprehensive than vdh or bear or monk 😂 unless they start to delete skills or make massive overhaul on warrior talents
@@Crispiegames they need to rework bear imo, monk skill floor is high and skill ceiling is higher.
Vengeance might just need a tuning of their abilities a little mainly defensive or more stats.
Like you said the warriors kit is just too good. I’d rather they buff the others and leave warrior how it is. It’s a good entry point but shouldn’t be the only viable tank at 20+
Thank you ! 💚
Tnx bro for good videos
Thanks so much for watching!
Ha, my tanks gone for the week, so I went to look up some vdh info so I can help fill.
First thing i see is this new video, homie are you stalking me?
Just great timing
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Which rotation is for the defensive raid build?
It stays consistent, you just dont need to Fiery Brand before using your big buttons like Hunt or Soul Carver. As long as you're building up to the stacks of frality before those, spending souls on spirit bomb, and spending fury on soulcleave, while generating when possible, youll be okay!
@@VooDooSaurus thank you for the respont and for your work you really help me
I like how he talk about tanking like a DPS.
As a vengence tank, most of your survivability COMES from your DPS rotation, through your high leach stat and the souls you generate and spend. Do you have defensives? Yes, you have demon spikes and meta (and fiery brand, but that's better used for DPS) but these can't really be written into a generic rotation, and I do cover them in the video. Keep a charge of spikes rolling while tanking, use meta for dangerous pulls or tank hits. Executing your DPS rotation properly for vengeance is essential, as that will allow you to live.
2 months late, but still strongly agree about ppl should try talking about tanking like a DPS more, as this helps a lot in mythic+. In fact, this is the exact type of content I had been searching for a while, thanks for the great content
Can I ask why is fodder so good over ED? My fodder does crap damage and crap healing. I'm waiting to kill the demon in the packs but some runs I get like a ton of demons and some I get hardly any. The average dps and healing is about 700 and does only overall 600k damage when ED is doing almost 2 million damage.
A) it’s a great defensive, offering you a ton of healing when needed
B) it’s another target to cleave off of, getting you more healing from Fel Dev/Frailty/Soul Bomb etc
C) vengeance does a ton of damage now, and it’s soul gives you a 20% damage buff with a fairly decent uptime, leading to a big increase in your damage (and thus survivability) while also doing explosion damage
Fodder is just overall the better option, if you feel you need snap threat or damage (which you shouldn’t since spirit bomb is so strong) then you can swap to it
@VooDooSaurus the thing with healing is I never seem to need it when the demon is up and I hold it but most the time I just don't need it. The damage is terrible I feel compared to ED. It just feels weak to me when comparing healing and damage. I'm not debating it is supposed to be better but I am just not seeing it. And when I look at others logs it ain't hardly doing anything. Idk ED feels better to me but I am only doing 10s and 11s atm
@@smokingcactus at a 10 or an 11 you won’t need the healing, and your gear may not be enough to fully benefit from the 20% amp from the soul. The thing with fodder is a lot of it’s benefit ISNT shown in logs or meters, because the amp it gives to the rest of your abilities. Whenever you kill the demon you just do 20% more damage for the next like 15-20 seconds, which is a sizeable increase
@VooDooSaurus when I compare 10s I know there is alot of variables but my dps is much higher when using ED. I'm sure later in higher keys like 15+ I will see a much bigger difference.
idk why many ppl doesn t talent soulmonger, it s a huge healing improvemnt and soulcarver is too skippable
Soulcarver is a good damage increase. There was a thing pinned or mentioned somewhere in the Venge discord, essentially soulmonger leads to a lot of overhealing, and a lot of the talents value is wasted. However thats not to say its bad, and if you find you need the healing it can be very good
Some of the best VDHs take it and I suggest doing the same, healing with it is amazing and you feel the difference
''fire damage is almost all of your damage as vengeance'' meanwhile soul cleave does 40% of your overall in ST , not to mention fracture. Your most damage as vengeance is high uptime of frailty stacks, the double fiery brand is only good on the training dummy where u don't have to hold ur defensives in order to not get 1 tapped by the mythic tank buster ability making the Frailty into middle build much better for realistic situations.
Please listen to how I describe when both builds are used : )
I don’t think this is true if you’re playing right. You should be taking advantage of the fiery brand debuff like was mentioned in the video. This is true both in raid and m+
Like and Sub. Good video
Thanks for the sub!