The best secret for great backpacking food is to be really really hungry when you eat. Evan crappy food tastes good when you're starving. As for cold soaking, it's great in the summer. Forget about it when its cold out.
I've always brought a stove and have always hated the cleaning up after the meal. Cold soaking is genius! My daughter showed me cold soaking oatmeal ("Overnihgt Oats") in the fridge the night before and putting peanut butter and more into it. I eat it for breakfast and loved it. I started drinking cold coffee at Starbucks. I saw this video and knew right away this was for me. I tried it on trail and was in heaven. Let's start sharing our ideas people... Cold soak Oatmeal with Protein powder, hot cocoa mix and a dollop of Peanut butter. (small chunks rather that one big glop) Kraft cheese powder, mashed potatoes (someone mentioned both below) and powdered eggs. My favorite trail meal- Egg Po Chee. You could substitute minute rice for the Potatoes. Maybe add a dried veggie too. Thanks Darwin- your videos take me away to the trail on the ho hum days of life. You have been very inspiring and helpful through the years. I met my first through hiker in 1977 at the Delaware Water Gap. I was amazed when they told me they were hiking 30 miles that day. That planted an idea for a through hike. 1978-1987 many trips and guiding followed in NJ, MO, MN, WY, Banff, MT, CO. Family took over and I got away from it. In 2012 I took my first solo backpacking trip on the Superior Hiking Trail (follows the north shore of Lake Superior, stunning scenery) I section hiked this trail the next four summers. Hoping to through hike the AT at some point. Thanks for all you do for the community! Chris White "Maui"
@@jasonacraft I use something called Steal Cut Oats (because my daughter told me that is what one uses) equal parts oats and water. Maybe a little less water. If you put any dehydrated food in, maybe a little more. that is what I do on trail. 1/2 cup oats seems to be plenty unless the trip you are on goes over a couple weeks. At home I put in marble sized pieces of PB and banana's and maybe a few chocolate chips. Put it in the fridge overnight and presto, I have breakfast ready in the morning and because it is in a small mason jar I can bring it with me if I am in a hurry.
I suddenly had to cold soak my food at my first backpacking trip, due to high risk of wildfires. We didn't prepare for it, but luckily everything we had brought was able to cold soak! it was good enough for a week or two though😃
When I did carry a stove, I usually waited too long to eat and the food was cold anyway. I love hot coffee, but the Starbucks instant packets in cold water make a good enough "cold brew". One food I'll add, you can but Kraft cheese powder in bulk on Amazon. Throw some of that in a small Ziploc, and you can make Mac & Cheese with ramen noodles. Also, white pepper is a must-have spice.
I went cold this year on the PCT just 2 weeks before walking into the Sierria to see if I could handle it...by the end of the Sierria I sent my stove home. I loved it!
I was one of those "I'll never do this!" people. But it takes me forever to get out of camp in the morning, and I realized that not cooking means more time hiking. I'm a slowpoke all around, so that extra time makes a difference. And it's really nice being able to eat as soon as my camp is set up instead of having to wait to cook it. I carry an alcohol stove & a Ti mug just in case I need hot water, but I've hiked through days & days of cold rain and even a few freezes without cooking. It's the calories in our food that keep us warm, not the temperature of the food.
Last time I went hiking, I had weetabix breakfasts with powdered milk and instant espresso mixed in. Worked really well and saved fuel. It was basically a weetabix iced latte!
First three days is meat (Boerewors/Steak or both) frozen solid and then wrapped in newspaper that keeps it cold for 3 days [place it in middle of backpack]...three nights of sitting in front of the Hikers television braaing (BBQing) your meat.....love this treat! Other than this cold soaking in warmer climes and stove/fire cooking in colder climes or higher altitudes. Chicken noodle soup anyday above tea/coffee....although hot chocolate is a smashing teat. Love Biltong too...South Africa's form of Jerky. Gotta have these on any hike of any length...even a day hike!!!! LOL!
You can cold soak with your titanium pot and lid by adding a piece of silicone sheeting between the pot and lid and an x-band or a couple of rubber bands to hold it together. Then you can also heat your food when you want. All the best, Scott
I'm down with the cold soaking. I haven't done anything like the AT or PCT, but I have spent a good deal of my life Bikepacking across Europe, hiking the Alps, the Bulgarian Balkan mountains, and other places like the Camino de Santiago. In all my years of Bike-/Backpacking I have never owned a stove and don't plan to. I've gotten by with raisins, nuts, dried cranberries, salami, crisp-bread like Wasa, etc. for days on end without even feeling that I miss hot food...
For me a combination of using a stove AND cold soaking is perfect. I love to hike out in the cold and having something warm to eat at the end of a long cold day is what boosts my good vibes. I bought the BRS stove that you recomended a while back and love it! Thanks for the vids!
I have done a lot of work with cold soaking and basic kitchen science. Essentially, on the science end of things, the heat from a stove increases the absorption capability of dehydrated foods and decreases the time to full absorption; think of a sponge soaking up water. Heat opens up the basic dehydrated food to allow for better total absorption. If you take the heat out of the equation then you need to do two things to get full absorption of the water into the food: 1) increase the time allowed for absorption; and, 2) decrease the amount of water. Your suggestion of putting the dehydrated food and water into the gelato container and then putting the container into your pack serves to increase the time with the added benefit of constant jostling of the mixture. That jostling is not unlike the process of boiling water where the entire dry mix is is forced to have contact with the water. Reducing the amount of water in the mixture will result in a dryer final product. That happens because the heat source is removed. On the science end, the uptake of water by the dry mix will produce a small amount of heat but not enough to force the water to be completely absorbed. What I have found in my "experiments" with backpacking food prep is that if I reduce the water in a given recipe by about 15% then the final product is not floating in the extra water. For example if a recipe calls for 3/4c water in a pot then I will put about 2/3c in the gelato container with the dry mix. That combination works for regular dry mixes like Mountain House as well as regular off the shelf oatmeal mixes. One note, however, this procedure only works with dehydrated or freeze dehydrated products. Some products don't work at all, e.g., crystalized eggs: they work only with a heat source and remain a disgusting soupy mix in this cold soaking methodology. I made the total commitment to this process when I purchased a home freeze-dryer. In that way I can make any meal I want, then freeze dry it which will allow me to store it or package it for a resupply pickup 6-10 months away for extended long hikes. My meals include salmon, tuna, or other fatty meats that when freeze dried will not spoil over that period of time. Love the videos Bill
Don't have to see this as a whole new universe of information. Generally speaking there is an inverse relationship between amount of food preservation and weight/inconvenience. Yes I know that is a math concept but it's okay. Basically, the less food preservation you do the more weight you are likely to carry and the more inconvenient it becomes. For example, if you want to carry nothing but fresh food then you will have the extra weight of the packaging to keep the food from damage or leaking into your stuff should you smash it, the extra weight of something to keep it cool to prevent spoilage (i.e., rotting), and you will expect to get off whatever trail you are on every couple of days to resupply. Ergo, "no food preservation" can be really inconvenient for the backpacker; however, it is perfect for the car camper or (what's the word now?) glamper. Dehydration is a middle of the road technique in food preservation. For example, think of a common ordinary juice box. When you put the straw into the top of the box air can go in and out of the box through the straw; but, when you put your lips on the straw and start sucking the juice out you create a vacuum that collapses the box. The box will stay collapsed until you stop the vacuum at which point the box will "reinflate". The principle is similar in dehydration: you apply a small amount of heat to release the water from the chemical bond it has with the food item and the item collapses in on itself (e.g. look at dehydrated blueberries or peas). The amount of heat depends on the item being dehydrated but 135 degrees works for most fruits and vegetables. That can be achieved with a regular store bought dehydrator or with your own oven. The water released will make the room humidity go up. When done you can ziploc the final foods for snacks, trail mix, or as ingredients in meals such as soups. They will be lighter because you have taken the water out and the support storage equipment will also be lighter. What is important to understand is that dehydration is never 100%, i.e., there will always be a little water left in the item. You can tell how much water is left by the level of crunchieness: real crunchy = very little water; chewy = more water. Finally, you have freeze-drying, which is sort of like dehydration to the max. For this you would be better served with access to a freeze-dryer and they are available for home use. Basically, the food is frozen (freeze cycle) and then thawed slightly with a vacuum pulling all of the water out of the item (dry cycle). You have probably tried food made by this process when you have gone to your local backpacking supplier and bought freeze dried ice cream. By comparison, freeze dried food is about half the weight (or less) of dehydrated food. Here you will also be better served with a vacuum sealer for packaging freeze dried meals. This technique can be used with already cooked foods that you want to take. For example, I have gotten a square "pick-up/take home" cheese pizza cooked and ready to eat. Then I have added chicken and veggies to the top and then added powdered gelatin for a protein boost. Next, I have freeze dried the whole pizza. When done I have sealed 4 pieces together in one pouch. Bingo, it will stay in that state for a few years if I so desire. When I want to "rehydrate" I add a mister attachment (part of my cook system) to the top of my water bottle and then mist it enough to rehydrate the cheese, chicken, sauce, and veggies but not the crust. Voila, room temp pizza with a crunchy crust
Here’s a good idea. Cold-soak, then heat it up with just a 1/4 to 1/2 of an Esbit tab on your Esbit stove, instead of needing to use a whole Esbit tab.
I saw a documentary where a guy went to Siberia and lived on white rice the entire time. Whether cooking, precooked or soaking, white rice is always a good pick and easy to make taste good with other foods.
Only problem is it’s basically only carbs. Great before/after intense exercise, bad for anything else. Certainly unhealthy to live on for longer periods of time.
Thanks for the video! Vloggers like you helped me to go stoveless last year and I learned a few things. 1. I don't like cold ramen. The fat also tends to congeal on the side of my peanut butter jar, making it tough to clean. 2. You can't cold soak normal pasta. You have to at least get pasta to near boiling to cook the gluten, which is what holds the starch together. Without cooking, you get mush. If you get pasta to a light boil, you can turn off the heat and let it soak for 10-15 minutes and that works, and saves fuel. I haven't tried egg noodles yet and I'm curious to see if the egg protein holds the pasta together better than uncooked gluten. 3. Bacon bits make a super-convenient way to add protein, calories, and flavor to a cold-soaked meal. But I usually add them only at the end, otherwise the fat can coat the peanut butter jar, making it tougher to clean. Depends on the dish. A favorite no-cook option for me are no-bake peanut butter energy bites. I put all the dry ingredients into a ziploc. When I add the honey, I can knead the ingredients together inside the ziploc. I usually do the kneading while walking to save time. allrecipes.com/recipe/239969/no-bake-energy-bites/ Thanks again, Darwin!
You have to cook pasta, then dehydrate it. The reason ramen cold-soaks is it's already cooked. Even when I was carrying a stove, I'd cook the pasta at home & dry it. That saves fuel & water, because you're rehydrating it rather than cooking it. I found a brand of ramen that's steamed rather than fried. I'm not thru-hiking, so I can do without the extra fat in fried ramen. I get what you're saying about the congealed fat. I've been using olive or avocado oil mostly because they don't congeal. I have a few recipes that call to coconut oil. I only use those when it's warm enough that the fat will stay liquid after combining it with the food.
I also go stoveless for many reasons but mainly to conserve my water. My backpacking meals are typically eat on the go meals for breakfast/lunch/snacks and a meal I have to make in the evening. My favorite is my "del a crumb burrito" 2 cheese sticks some dukes mayo with olive oil and a snack-sized nacho Doritos size crushed up all wrapped up in 1 flour tortilla. It satisfies my crunch and soft cravings and my salty sweet cravings.
Went stoveless after a few hundred miles on the AT this year. I cold soaked at first with a Ziploc plastic container then went with the Vargo Bot later. For me it was all about being lazy not dealing with a stove every time I was eating. I also did some ramen soups for lunch, with a stove there is no way I would stop to cook at lunchtime but cold soaking made it easy. Don't forget when people make comments on your cold oatmeal int the morning to tell them it's "Overnight oats", makes it way fancier ;)
I started cold soaking this year and love the convenience of it. When I hit a water source a few hours before a meal (lunch or dinner) I fill up my jar and start the soaking process. When I get to camp, I don't have to worry about using up my last bit of water for food prep plus, dinner is ready to eat and clean up is easy. Uncle Ben's Long Grain and Wildrice is delicious. I also tried a variety of dehydrated meals and didn't like them a bit. Lastly, the issue of cold coffee wasn't an problem for me because I end up drinking cold coffee nearly every afternoon at home but, I understand it being a deal killer. My wife would sooner die than drink cold coffee. Thanks for the videos.
Thanks Darwin, I admire your attitude and execution! I could never cold soak. The idea of eating cold oatmeal or ramen turns my stomach a bit. But, more power to you! I am still working on figuring out what meals I can actually bring out with me. I am lactose intolerant, so a lot of the ready made stuff is out of the question. Besides all of that, I like the ritual of firing up my hobo wood-burning stove.
Hey Darwin, another great video, thank you. There is an 'in between' which I like to do. I started doing this for breakfast at first. Cold soak and then just warm up your food on a stove. No need to actually 'cook' just warm it up. I started doing this with oats, put oats and water in my cook pot before going to sleep, then the next morning just need to warm it up. Very easy, less fuel, and easier cleanup. Hot food is definitely a nice option to have. At the end of a really miserable cold, wet, rainy day, it is so nice to know that you can look forward to some hot food.This goes back to another video you did, discussing your personal thing's you want v weight constraint, getting your base weight down. I believe there is not much extra weight for a UL cook system compared to the morale value of a hot meal after a really bad wet, windy, rainy day. My 2 cents. Thank you for your awesome video's.
Personally I carry my stove with me 99% of the time when I'm out hiking. Even do it for the day hikes. I have tried cold soaking with ramen and instant mashed potatoes before and it's tolerable. But even if I don't have any food that requires hot water with me I still like to have a warm cup of coffee or tea to drink while taking a break out on a trail. Love the videos. Keep up the good work!
Same. I would bring a small stove for hot coffee and hot soup, even if I planned to eat mostly cold food. Also, most cold soaked food tastes bland and gritty to me, even if soaked for hours. OK for an emergency, but not every night.
For day hikes fall-winter-spring my wife and I like to use an insulated food jar. Pre-heat the jar with hot water, then put in ingredients like minute rice, dehydrated pork shreds, dehydrated veggies, spices, oil or butter and hot water and 2-3 hours later we have a great hot meal! I would not take it on an over night (because of the weight), but for a nice meal on the trail on a day hike it works well!
Interesting topic. I either go stoveless or carry a stove depending on the hike. All cold soaking seems to me is eliminating the heat up step and saving a few ounces by not carrying a stove. You still have clean up to do after you eat. It all comes down to personal preference and comfort. Thanks for the video. Merry Christmas!
I like ANYTHING that is edible when I'm on the trail! Hot or Cold, Wet or Dry, Plant or Animal.... I don't discriminate on Trail Food!...lol Hike On, Darwin
Sooo...why eat at all? If you're not going to be more than about five days max on the trail between towns and you're reasonably healthy there's no physiological absolute necessity to eat. Pig out in town. Fasting has been shown to be very beneficial, can even help you live longer. Think of all the weight you'll save, and the time. You could be walking rather than stirring. And time saved pooping, too, what goes in must come out and all. BTW how do you clean that Talenti jar and your spork without hot water? That thing looks like one big Petri dish...
brimstone33 don't be silly,during a trail a lots of calories is used,not eating with long effort like that could be dangerous... and about sanitizing the jar you have some gels that can sanitizing your jar with very low water use... look like you don't go outside hiking a lots...
Well there's no problem whatsoever in using lots of calories, that's what they're there for. To be burned up. Please explain, with your understanding of metabolic physiology, exactly how a healthy person with normal bodyfat and metabolism (not diabetic or prone to hypoglycemia etc) is harmed by not eating for three days. They're just not, humans are in fact physically evolved for just such eating patterns. It is in fact the modern habit of eating every few hours which is a huge medical problem. And it is a really bad idea to clean your pot with hand sanitizer especially if you don't have water to rinse it away. That stuff is harmful if ingested, don't take my word for it just read the label. And it
This is the first I’ve heard of cold soaking. Definitely want to try that recipe you shared. Going camping next week so it sounds like a good time to try it.
Literally every time you say "I like to use the Tilenti Icecream jars because for $8 you get a super good cold soaking jar, and free icecream" I lose it and burst out laughing. Your sense of humor is pure gold, Darwin. :D This video was amazing!!!! Thanks for making it! I actually had never heard of "cold soaking" and "going stoveless" until you started mentioning you might start messing around with it. On my hikes, I always cold soaked my couscous and oatmeal (it tastes better to me) and on all shorter summer trips and some fall trips I go stoveless (yay hot muggy buggy east coast). It's kind of interesting that I was doing these things before I knew they had a name and a place in UL backpacking.
I guess for $8 the ice cream is sprinkled with a little bit of gold dust too! ;-)) I always thought that "Ben & Jerry's" and "Häagen-Dazs" was already overpriced! At least you end up with a durable container.
Thanks for the info Darwin. I take my BRS stove but more for hot coffee in the morning than for food. Gotta have a hot cup of coffee in the morning. It’s one of my favorite parts of hiking/camping.
This was actually really informative. As it turns out, I'm a bit too attached to my hot meals- but I really appriciated the perspective and the general info. Cheers!
I'm tired of cooking dried noodles on stove top. And thanks for the idea of add ins for Ramien Noodles. I always discard those flavor packets. Chicken and beef broths taste good too, but I don't know about using broth for trail soaking.
I have been dehydrating certain foods, for emergency storage and for camping. I'll take a bag of mixed vegetables from the freezer section of the store and dehydrate them. When I'm camping, instead of rehydrating them and making a soup or a side dish, I eat them without rehydrating them. They are actually quite delicious that way. It concentrates the sweetness. Just make sure you don't eat too much, and drink plenty of water with it. Kind of cold soaking it in my stomach. With these vegetables and jerky I can make a fairly complete meal. Cold soaking also might work well to rehydrate something before you cook it. Once you let it sit for a while while, you're hiking or doing chores or something, when you're ready you just heat it up and it's all set to go. I don't know, but it might save some fuel and time.
While I am not a hiker I ride ADV and Dual Sport Motorcycles. I look at food as fuel. Seems like a lot of people want a gourmet experience on the trail. It doesn't seem feasible. When I get to a town I will chow down. Never thought of cold soaking. I have been getting some great info from your channel that I can relate to my stuff. Thanks for the great content!
Hi. Loved the clarity. Thought to add two safety angles on this too. 1. If you are a hot food eater then good to know cold soaking is a viable option, if you run out of fuel. This might also mean it is wise to eat non cold soak food first, so if you run out of fuel, loose your fuel, or suffer a stove malfunctions later you are covered, or to hedge your bets further, without being too paranoid, only take food that can be eaten cold. A fire is not always possible when a stove breaks down. 2. Cold soak only in treated/safe to drink water.
I have always packed "Casbah" Hummus and Tabouli. Although the instructions say add hot water you can use cold and just give it time. Highly recommend.
If you're the creative type... I had the same intention, a warm cup of coffee. Compact. Easy. Nothing more. I've made a coffee system that fits neatly inside a 200 ml metal cup. I think I can fit 2 weeks worth of morning coffee/fuel, if not more, inside it.
Just tried cold soaking for the first time on a 3 day hike yesterday. What I learnt; In good conditions, its easy and conveinent In bad conditions, you will be jealous of your friends with a stove Don't bother with Dried beans, chickpeas or lentils. They take waaaaay too long (after almost 12 hours the lentils were just edible and the Bertolli beans were still hard) Use a big jar, as I filled mine quite quickly. I was using a 400g peanut butter jar, I just bought an 870g jar to use next time.
Thanks for the video. I view eating like you. A bodily function. This video gives a lot of good data about it. I've been going stoveless, and was curious about the cold soaking thing since you mentioned it in prior videos. i'd always just bring peanut butter, Snickers bars, cheese and tuna but i want to try the cold soaking. Thanks again. I've watched a lot of your videos for some time now, and you have definitely taught me a lot. I appreciate what you do. My goal is Everest. In 6 years.
I am usually backpacking or kayaking in cold northern climates so consider a stove a survival necessity to stave off hypothermia and cold exhaustion. After a long day of being wet and very active, nothing beats a hot meal - It is something to look forward to when you are feeling low late afternoon. It need not weigh much. I am currently using a German sub-2 oz twig stove made of 4 pieces of very thin spring stainless steel sheet metal which packs flat inside the base of my aluminium cookpot. The pot lid is homemade from beer can aluminium. Fuel is pencil-size twigs collected from dead standing trees on location. A few solid fuel tablets are carried as wet weather insurance and fire starters in tricky conditions. I think trail food actually tastes better outdoors - or maybe I am just hiking so hungry that anything tastes good. I have been known to wolf down corned beef with a spoon, straight from the can. Smells a bit like dog food but your body relishes in the calorie dense animal fat, salt and protein. Mmmm! - and it does not require cooking - the same goes for anything in a can. Happy trails and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.
Darwin...I'm so excited! I just became a believer. I just finished hiking the PCT section from Tehachapi towards Kennedy Meadows. I was dealing with heat exhaustion and didn't have the energy to get my stove out and hot food sounded disgusting to me while sitting in 90+ degree weather. So, I poured some water into my ziploc bag, let it sit while I rested. It worked perfectly and because of the weather, it was not "cold" food. My favorite was Knorr's Taco Rice in a tortilla. I really didn't think the rice would work, but it did. I think it only soaked about 2 hours. I had also added homemade dehydrated chicken and mixed vegetables to my meals. They rehydrated perfectly also. Never once pulled out my pot or stove. I can see still taking the stove in the Sierras though.
Started cold soaking on hunting trips works great. Not as good as hot food but up in the tree stand it’s nice to eat an actual meal not just snacks I’m looking forward to cold soaking in my kayak when fishing. Awesome videos man
When I was hiking a lot I used a lot of peanut butter jars, saved from home. I kept one designated for my coffee mix and then used used them for dumping packets and mixing dried ingredients ahead of time to minimize trash. A whole dried meal (minus ingredients that start to spoil when opened) could fit in there and it is perfect for cold soaking because they seal up nice. Then when you are done you can certainly clean it up and reuse it or as a last ditch use before disposing, they make a great tiny trash receptacle or midnight pee jar. I know pb jars are a little bulky in the pack but they are nice organizers when you need a hard sided container and they are UL and they are "cheap with free peanut butter"
Old school GORP being 47 the old ways tend to be the best. Jerky is always good although I prefer noncommercial types for long hikes, too much nitraits. dehydrated meats I make at home are better quality and better controlled. Cold soaking is good for warm climates. Getting that ballance of nutrition and flavor will be an adventure in it's self. Thanks for the tips and advise
Great info. Clear, concise and detailed. I would probably only do cold soaking for breakfast with oatmeal, chia seeds, dried mango, and i found some dried coconut milk POWDER at a health food store. Add dried nuts/coconut flakes and have a big calorie meal.
Back when I was in the Army in the seventies, we had freeze dry foods we use to call lerps for long range patrol foods. My platoon Sgt said when he was Viet Nam he was taught to add water to his lerps resealed it then place it between his shirt and body. They will go on a patrol and when they took a break to eat they would take the food which was warmed up from ur body heat and have a warm decent chow food for thought
So far I'm cold soaking in hot weather, and cooking in cold weather. I have a BRS stove, and titanium pot, and don't carry fuel if it I'll be cold I just buy a canister when I I resupply. Also I use a GSI silicon spoon that cleans out the container better than anything I've ever used. DARWIN CHECK OUT THAT GSI SPOON!
Hi! For our 2014 ten day Bowron Lake Provincial Park "circuit" trip, my wife prepared and dehydrated the food for 12 people (weighing under 10lbs per day). After the first evening meal of Corned Beef and Cabbage that was a little chewy, we started cold soaking our food in a pot at the end of the previous meal (after lunch for dinner, after dinner for breakfast). Most of the meals were one-pot type and we would put the pot of food and soaking water under the seat of the canoe and continue paddling. As long as we didn't tip over everything would be perfectly rehydrated and ready for the stove. Didn't require boiling or cooking, just reheating. So this is a combination of cold soaking and hot meals. Lunch was always cold like Sumner sausage cheese and crackers and the like. It is quite a bit different when feeding a group. The mid point meal was spaghetti in sauce, peas, dehydrated garlic bread and no- bake cherry cheese cake for dessert. Everything was packed dry except the cherry sauce.
Loved your idea of cold soaking on the hot section of the PCT and then bringing a stove later. I ran into two women hiking the CD last weekend, they introduced me to cold soaking and I'd love to learn more. I think this is something I can incorporate into my camping! I recently swapped out coffee (something I thought I'd never do!) for a green smoothie powder, which meant I only really need a stove for dinners (or hot oats). I'm going to look around a bit for some cold soak ideas :) Happy hiking!
I've cold soak as well for awhile now, mostly during warmer times of the year. I've always just put water directly on my food that's in a quart sized zip lock freezer bag and I just eat directly from the bag. I've even left the titanium spoon at home and just squeezed the food directly into my mouth by cutting the corner off the bag. The plastic container seems like dead weight since it's only used during eating AND you have to clean it every time....
Brilliant. That's breaking it down to the lowest common denominator right there. No fuel, pot, stove, spoon, container, cooking or cleaning. Just pour the water in, soak, clip the corner and eat. Man I'm glad I read down through all of these. Thank You Joe!
Just did 5 day hike on cold food. Didn't take my home made dehydrated food deciding to try meal replacements for breakfast and dinner which were good. Before i left i decanted them from sachets they came in and them in zip lock bag to minimise carrying packaging out. Just shook them up in a peanut butter container with wire ball. During the day I ate about 400 calories of high fat nuts, 400 calories of homemade jerky, a granola bar and a squeeze bag of fruit used for toddlers. Also had peanut butter in a ziplock bag which looked unappetizing but was a great treat super high in calories. Getting it out was a problem so will use smaller jars next time.
I like your strategy for the PCT. You'll be super toned by the time you hit the sierras and the extra weight/time might not matter as much. I cold soak oats at home, some coconut oil really helps the calories and nutrience go up. Bit of weight though...
Having a bowl of warm food after setting up camp is one of the greatest things with hiking, for me. I usually make my own dehydrated food and add spices, Also being able to pick some mushrooms and fry spontanously, and getting good hot coffee. I would never trade that for cold soaking. Maybe for lunches on the longer hikes. I also live in sweden so nights might be a bit colder here too. A couple of summers ago it was so dry outside and wildfires, so we couldnt use any kind of stove, and were forced to go stoveless. But I wouldnt choose to.
You can warm your food while it is cold soaking so it's a little nicer to eat. I learned this trick in the military eating MREs out of their retort pouches. What you do is put the pouch someplace under your clothing (shirt usually in a tight area, between your body and back pack for example) in contact with your skin. So, as you are hiking or setting stuff up or whatever, the meal is warming in the pouch via your body heat. If I know I'll be setting for a while, I just tuck a pouch under my thigh and let it warm. How do you know if it's working? You'll feel the cold pouch against your skin, that means you are losing body heat. How do you know when it's done? You won't feel it any more. This will also work if you use a zip lock bag if your food does not come in a retort (or use the pouch the dried food comes in, just need to be able to seal it back up after you open it and add water).
Cold soaking, thought not much of it, but makes sense at the end of a hot days hike. Have to try it, Thanks Darwin really enjoy your videos. Spend a lot of time on the At!!
I cold soaked for the AZT, planning on doing so again for the CDT this year. Loved soaking oatmeal with chia seeds (it's just your fancy refrigerated overnight oats at home!). Stir some chocolate protein powder in there mmmm. Also, dehydrated eggs make a good stir-in for just about anything-- oatmeal, mashed potatoes, ramen bomb... they add protein and fat and the flavor is so mild, it's fairly easy to cover up if you so desire.
Thanks Darwin, much like cold MRE’s, but without the added weight (many of those are pretty good cold.) I also recently saw a vid of a guy who sprouts beans while hiking. He hangs them from a wet bag off his ruck. Good vid!
Thanks, Darwin. I just emptied a peanut butter jar today and will be trying out your ideas over the winter to see what works before I hit the trails this summer. Will be fun to experiment :-)
Regular gluten free noodles cold soak in 30 mins. But I cold soak oatmeal with freeze dried fruit all the time. Most of my food items are quick grabs anyways. I eat almost continually, as I have a fast metabolism. I don’t leave the stove at home because I never know how I’m going to feel. I keep a trangia or vargo titanium wood stove just in case. It really conserves on fuel. The titanium bot looks perfect, thanks for the idea. I don’t like to put food in my Klean Kanteen, which would work, but I only use it for water
Tried this tonight for dinner (planning my first multiple day hike on the Trans Catalina Trail) and wanted to make sure I could. Cous cous, dried bell peppers, taco seasoning and tuna. It was actually taste (for me). Thanks Darwin for all the info that has me wanting to do this four day hike
I'm definitely going to try cold soaking. But, during cold and/or rainy weather - hot meals are king. No cook meals are almost always part of my meal plans. And, on shorter hikes sometimes I cook from scratch - comfort food, fun, challenging, and delicious!
On Everglades Canoe trips I like to put Dried Beans , Rice , Dehydrated Celery , Dried Onion , seasonings and water in a Nalgene bottle. I let the bottle roll around in the canoe while paddling during the day. When supper time came I would put everything in a pot and warm it up. The extra bonus would be a fresh caught and cleaned fish to go along with the meal. I enjoy a hot beverage in the morning to get my motor running. The rest of the meals can either be cold or hot , just depends on what I want. I use either a wood burning stove ( Solo Stove Lite ) since the fuel for it is everywhere or a alcohol stove , depends on the trip.
I think a hot meal is important to get some satisfaction so you (me) maintain some "good associations" to hiking... I understand that it feels good to finish at a good time - but im not some "hiking machine" (lol), so when i need a break every now and again, i think it is really nice to combine that with making some half decent food... I dont do long hikes though (at least not yet). Usually just some short dayhikes around the local forests, with the occasional camping trip... But i just ordered the Duplex tent, and i have been wanting to backpack and/or bikepack or "kayak-packing" for maybe a month some day. Hopefully next summer.
I've been section hiking the Oregon Coast Trail this month. With all the wind and surf, I find I crave hot tea. This has happened in the heat of the redrock backcountry in Utah, too. I almost don't care what the food is, but having a hot drink is a real boost.
Great information...I have always cooked but have used a lot of non-cook options except rehydrating...I may have to try it...I am normally out 3-4 weeks so I most likely would carry a stove anyway but I have been thinking about this for a while...overall if the flavor is there I can save some time,pack volume and weight ...
Thanks for this!! I’m attempting my first thru hike next year and have been thinking I want to go stoveless but didn’t know how I’d work that out. This video helps so much haha
Good day Darwin, i totally dig your video l. In agreement with cold soaking is not for everyone. Here is a great recipe for a power breakfast one packet of regular oatmeal 1/4 cup of vanilla protein mix 1/4 cup of dehydrated fruit like bananas or strawberries or blueberries add water soak over night and enjoy a great boost for the morning also merry xmas to all the hiker trash thanks again D fir the vids
I used to dehydrate some cooked pasta, dehydrated bolognese and dehydrated tomato sauce, mixed 'em all together and cold soak it. it was like having a home cooked meal every night. really made my evenings!
Another excellent video Darwin. In normal life I hardly ever cook so I started questioning why I would want to do it on trail. 99% of the time, I treat food as fuel--just trying to hit my daily macronutrient targets. If I'm craving something tasty, I go to a restaurant with a professional chef who can do it much better than I can.
I love to cook on the trail. But something really good cold soaked is pasta salad. They are meant to be served cold and taste pretty good, and you can find them in most grocery stores. Never saw anyone else using them, until my friends saw me doing it, and it with us it became a cool thing to have to shake things up, expecially when it was hot.
Tried cold soaking recently when I ran out of fuel. My daughter and I tried two different things for our breakfast. She tried cold soaked ramen and I did instant oatmeal with hot chocolate in it. We soaked them overnight. We both ate about 1/3 of it and couldn't stomach any more. I think the main thing was that they were cold and we really wanted something hot for breakfast on our last day. Also our recipes may not have been the best. The hot chocolate just sort of congealed a bit as did the oil from the soup packet for the ramen. I can see how it could work but since I am already carrying a cooking pot the stove and fuel doesn't add much weight so I think I will keep cold soaking as a back-up plan.
Another great video. I honestly had some reservations about this when I heard you talking about it in other videos, but for the convenience, I can see the appeal. As always, your efforts are appreciated.
I went stove less for my most recent trip to the ADKs and it wasn’t all bad. Cold soaking sounds like a neat idea, and like you said, at the end of a hot day you don’t really want hot food. Im going to have to give this a try. Thanks for the starter recipe. Haha.
I've read about LRRP's in Vietnam that would cold soak their LRRP rations before missions rather than fiddle with heating in the field, by the time they got to their night position it was all rehydrated. That was the first I had ever heard of anyone doing it.
I’d have a hard time giving up my stove, even though I hate carrying the fuel cans around. I could probably go without a warm dinner some days in the summer, but warm coffee and breakfast in the morning is a big motivator for me to break camp and put in miles for the day.
I have cold coffee in the morning, but even back when I carried a stove all the time, I've never been into a "Warm" breakfast on the trail. Hike On, Darwin
If I'm going to out for a couple of days I simply take a loaf of whole grain bread, and a small jar of peanut butter and jelly. It's calorie dense, fairly light and easy to put a sandwich together. Best of all it tastes great and fills me up. And there is no cleanup except wiping my knife. Snacks are trail mix and dried fruit.
Have not tried "Cold Soaking", but doesn't mean that I never will. But I am now and always have carried a stove. I do carry tuna, mayo packets, small tortilla wraps for a cold meal. Hike on !!!!!
I’ve been cold soaking breakfast and lunch since the late 1970’s and will continue the practice. Dinner is something hot. If you’re going to use plastic bags of whatever brand, think hard about double bagging unless you want a mess in your pack. If you’re going to be gaining any significant altitude check your bags frequently. If you have a good seal they can blow up like a balloon.
I’m starting cold soaking.... learning what works for me. I use a dehydrator extensively. There needs to be a sort of information and idea clearinghouse so we can share experiences with this. Currently it’s every man for himself. Eventually, I expect the big names in backpacking foods to start a line of cold soak products. Coffee is a big deterrent, but a metal cup and light weight stand and fuel tab solves that without the need to carry much.
I think cold soaking is pretty interesting but I really do love a hot meal. Everyone definitely needs to hike their own hike. One point I will add though. Having a stove can be a safety item. I watched a video about a backpacker who used a stove to boil water and keep his body temperature up when he went on a wet cold hike and wasn't prepared. Just an extra incentive for me to keep my stove.
That “ramen bean bomb” sounds like something someone who hates food would come up with out of spite
lulz
Funny, but I'd like to try it
I'll soak with about half of the needed water on the trail--then boil the
other half in camp. Hot, finished food with minimal fuel usage.
Same. Works well.
Same, pre soak food, cook for just a couple mins
Great idea! Thanks!
Hey! That's a damn good idea.
well put
I dehydrate all of my water to save weight
I do this with my body
I gave my kids a bottle of dehydrated H2O for a Christmas gift. Just add water.
Personally I dehydrate my pack then cold soak it at camp
Genius
I use Helium for fuel to save weight and float my backpack in the air
The best secret for great backpacking food is to be really really hungry when you eat. Evan crappy food tastes good when you're starving.
As for cold soaking, it's great in the summer. Forget about it when its cold out.
Hunger is the best spice. :D
simbriant never heard that one before, love it!
I've always brought a stove and have always hated the cleaning up after the meal. Cold soaking is genius! My daughter showed me cold soaking oatmeal ("Overnihgt Oats") in the fridge the night before and putting peanut butter and more into it. I eat it for breakfast and loved it. I started drinking cold coffee at Starbucks. I saw this video and knew right away this was for me. I tried it on trail and was in heaven. Let's start sharing our ideas people...
Cold soak Oatmeal with Protein powder, hot cocoa mix and a dollop of Peanut butter. (small chunks rather that one big glop)
Kraft cheese powder, mashed potatoes (someone mentioned both below) and powdered eggs. My favorite trail meal- Egg Po Chee. You could substitute minute rice for the Potatoes. Maybe add a dried veggie too.
Thanks Darwin- your videos take me away to the trail on the ho hum days of life. You have been very inspiring and helpful through the years. I met my first through hiker in 1977 at the Delaware Water Gap. I was amazed when they told me they were hiking 30 miles that day. That planted an idea for a through hike. 1978-1987 many trips and guiding followed in NJ, MO, MN, WY, Banff, MT, CO. Family took over and I got away from it. In 2012 I took my first solo backpacking trip on the Superior Hiking Trail (follows the north shore of Lake Superior, stunning scenery) I section hiked this trail the next four summers. Hoping to through hike the AT at some point.
Thanks for all you do for the community!
Chris White "Maui"
CWGT tell me more about this oatmeal please...quick oats? Instant packs? I’m excited to try this
@@jasonacraft I use something called Steal Cut Oats (because my daughter told me that is what one uses) equal parts oats and water. Maybe a little less water. If you put any dehydrated food in, maybe a little more. that is what I do on trail. 1/2 cup oats seems to be plenty unless the trip you are on goes over a couple weeks. At home I put in marble sized pieces of PB and banana's and maybe a few chocolate chips. Put it in the fridge overnight and presto, I have breakfast ready in the morning and because it is in a small mason jar I can bring it with me if I am in a hurry.
I suddenly had to cold soak my food at my first backpacking trip, due to high risk of wildfires. We didn't prepare for it, but luckily everything we had brought was able to cold soak! it was good enough for a week or two though😃
When I did carry a stove, I usually waited too long to eat and the food was cold anyway. I love hot coffee, but the Starbucks instant packets in cold water make a good enough "cold brew".
One food I'll add, you can but Kraft cheese powder in bulk on Amazon. Throw some of that in a small Ziploc, and you can make Mac & Cheese with ramen noodles. Also, white pepper is a must-have spice.
I went cold this year on the PCT just 2 weeks before walking into the Sierria to see if I could handle it...by the end of the Sierria I sent my stove home. I loved it!
I was one of those "I'll never do this!" people. But it takes me forever to get out of camp in the morning, and I realized that not cooking means more time hiking. I'm a slowpoke all around, so that extra time makes a difference. And it's really nice being able to eat as soon as my camp is set up instead of having to wait to cook it.
I carry an alcohol stove & a Ti mug just in case I need hot water, but I've hiked through days & days of cold rain and even a few freezes without cooking. It's the calories in our food that keep us warm, not the temperature of the food.
A recipe video with some of your favs would be nice, especially one about how you prepare your Quinoa.
Last time I went hiking, I had weetabix breakfasts with powdered milk and instant espresso mixed in. Worked really well and saved fuel. It was basically a weetabix iced latte!
First three days is meat (Boerewors/Steak or both) frozen solid and then wrapped in newspaper that keeps it cold for 3 days [place it in middle of backpack]...three nights of sitting in front of the Hikers television braaing (BBQing) your meat.....love this treat! Other than this cold soaking in warmer climes and stove/fire cooking in colder climes or higher altitudes. Chicken noodle soup anyday above tea/coffee....although hot chocolate is a smashing teat. Love Biltong too...South Africa's form of Jerky. Gotta have these on any hike of any length...even a day hike!!!! LOL!
Nah bruh 350 years of tradition and culture is bs, hell if the Voortrekkers had cold soaked they'd probably have reached the Mediterranean.
You can cold soak with your titanium pot and lid by adding a piece of silicone sheeting between the pot and lid and an x-band or a couple of rubber bands to hold it together. Then you can also heat your food when you want.
All the best, Scott
I just ordered the food grade silicone sheeting. The X-bands are quite pricey, but I will find something to use. Thanks for the great idea!
I'm down with the cold soaking. I haven't done anything like the AT or PCT, but I have spent a good deal of my life Bikepacking across Europe, hiking the Alps, the Bulgarian Balkan mountains, and other places like the Camino de Santiago. In all my years of Bike-/Backpacking I have never owned a stove and don't plan to. I've gotten by with raisins, nuts, dried cranberries, salami, crisp-bread like Wasa, etc. for days on end without even feeling that I miss hot food...
Thanks, for some more tips.
For me a combination of using a stove AND cold soaking is perfect. I love to hike out in the cold and having something warm to eat at the end of a long cold day is what boosts my good vibes. I bought the BRS stove that you recomended a while back and love it! Thanks for the vids!
I have done a lot of work with cold soaking and basic kitchen science. Essentially, on the science end of things, the heat from a stove increases the absorption capability of dehydrated foods and decreases the time to full absorption; think of a sponge soaking up water. Heat opens up the basic dehydrated food to allow for better total absorption. If you take the heat out of the equation then you need to do two things to get full absorption of the water into the food: 1) increase the time allowed for absorption; and, 2) decrease the amount of water. Your suggestion of putting the dehydrated food and water into the gelato container and then putting the container into your pack serves to increase the time with the added benefit of constant jostling of the mixture. That jostling is not unlike the process of boiling water where the entire dry mix is is forced to have contact with the water. Reducing the amount of water in the mixture will result in a dryer final product. That happens because the heat source is removed. On the science end, the uptake of water by the dry mix will produce a small amount of heat but not enough to force the water to be completely absorbed.
What I have found in my "experiments" with backpacking food prep is that if I reduce the water in a given recipe by about 15% then the final product is not floating in the extra water. For example if a recipe calls for 3/4c water in a pot then I will put about 2/3c in the gelato container with the dry mix. That combination works for regular dry mixes like Mountain House as well as regular off the shelf oatmeal mixes.
One note, however, this procedure only works with dehydrated or freeze dehydrated products. Some products don't work at all, e.g., crystalized eggs: they work only with a heat source and remain a disgusting soupy mix in this cold soaking methodology.
I made the total commitment to this process when I purchased a home freeze-dryer. In that way I can make any meal I want, then freeze dry it which will allow me to store it or package it for a resupply pickup 6-10 months away for extended long hikes. My meals include salmon, tuna, or other fatty meats that when freeze dried will not spoil over that period of time.
Love the videos
Bill
Oh great, now i have to research what a freeze dryer is. I'm always learning stuff from backpacking. ☺
Don't have to see this as a whole new universe of information. Generally speaking there is an inverse relationship between amount of food preservation and weight/inconvenience. Yes I know that is a math concept but it's okay. Basically, the less food preservation you do the more weight you are likely to carry and the more inconvenient it becomes. For example, if you want to carry nothing but fresh food then you will have the extra weight of the packaging to keep the food from damage or leaking into your stuff should you smash it, the extra weight of something to keep it cool to prevent spoilage (i.e., rotting), and you will expect to get off whatever trail you are on every couple of days to resupply. Ergo, "no food preservation" can be really inconvenient for the backpacker; however, it is perfect for the car camper or (what's the word now?) glamper. Dehydration is a middle of the road technique in food preservation. For example, think of a common ordinary juice box. When you put the straw into the top of the box air can go in and out of the box through the straw; but, when you put your lips on the straw and start sucking the juice out you create a vacuum that collapses the box. The box will stay collapsed until you stop the vacuum at which point the box will "reinflate". The principle is similar in dehydration: you apply a small amount of heat to release the water from the chemical bond it has with the food item and the item collapses in on itself (e.g. look at dehydrated blueberries or peas). The amount of heat depends on the item being dehydrated but 135 degrees works for most fruits and vegetables. That can be achieved with a regular store bought dehydrator or with your own oven. The water released will make the room humidity go up. When done you can ziploc the final foods for snacks, trail mix, or as ingredients in meals such as soups. They will be lighter because you have taken the water out and the support storage equipment will also be lighter. What is important to understand is that dehydration is never 100%, i.e., there will always be a little water left in the item. You can tell how much water is left by the level of crunchieness: real crunchy = very little water; chewy = more water. Finally, you have freeze-drying, which is sort of like dehydration to the max. For this you would be better served with access to a freeze-dryer and they are available for home use. Basically, the food is frozen (freeze cycle) and then thawed slightly with a vacuum pulling all of the water out of the item (dry cycle). You have probably tried food made by this process when you have gone to your local backpacking supplier and bought freeze dried ice cream. By comparison, freeze dried food is about half the weight (or less) of dehydrated food. Here you will also be better served with a vacuum sealer for packaging freeze dried meals. This technique can be used with already cooked foods that you want to take. For example, I have gotten a square "pick-up/take home" cheese pizza cooked and ready to eat. Then I have added chicken and veggies to the top and then added powdered gelatin for a protein boost. Next, I have freeze dried the whole pizza. When done I have sealed 4 pieces together in one pouch. Bingo, it will stay in that state for a few years if I so desire. When I want to "rehydrate" I add a mister attachment (part of my cook system) to the top of my water bottle and then mist it enough to rehydrate the cheese, chicken, sauce, and veggies but not the crust. Voila, room temp pizza with a crunchy crust
William Cunningham ....ok
Here’s a good idea. Cold-soak, then heat it up with just a 1/4 to 1/2 of an Esbit tab on your Esbit stove, instead of needing to use a whole Esbit tab.
I saw a documentary where a guy went to Siberia and lived on white rice the entire time. Whether cooking, precooked or soaking, white rice is always a good pick and easy to make taste good with other foods.
Only problem is it’s basically only carbs. Great before/after intense exercise, bad for anything else. Certainly unhealthy to live on for longer periods of time.
Thanks for the video! Vloggers like you helped me to go stoveless last year and I learned a few things.
1. I don't like cold ramen. The fat also tends to congeal on the side of my peanut butter jar, making it tough to clean.
2. You can't cold soak normal pasta. You have to at least get pasta to near boiling to cook the gluten, which is what holds the starch together. Without cooking, you get mush. If you get pasta to a light boil, you can turn off the heat and let it soak for 10-15 minutes and that works, and saves fuel. I haven't tried egg noodles yet and I'm curious to see if the egg protein holds the pasta together better than uncooked gluten.
3. Bacon bits make a super-convenient way to add protein, calories, and flavor to a cold-soaked meal. But I usually add them only at the end, otherwise the fat can coat the peanut butter jar, making it tougher to clean. Depends on the dish.
A favorite no-cook option for me are no-bake peanut butter energy bites. I put all the dry ingredients into a ziploc. When I add the honey, I can knead the ingredients together inside the ziploc. I usually do the kneading while walking to save time.
allrecipes.com/recipe/239969/no-bake-energy-bites/
Thanks again, Darwin!
You have to cook pasta, then dehydrate it. The reason ramen cold-soaks is it's already cooked. Even when I was carrying a stove, I'd cook the pasta at home & dry it. That saves fuel & water, because you're rehydrating it rather than cooking it.
I found a brand of ramen that's steamed rather than fried. I'm not thru-hiking, so I can do without the extra fat in fried ramen. I get what you're saying about the congealed fat. I've been using olive or avocado oil mostly because they don't congeal. I have a few recipes that call to coconut oil. I only use those when it's warm enough that the fat will stay liquid after combining it with the food.
I also go stoveless for many reasons but mainly to conserve my water. My backpacking meals are typically eat on the go meals for breakfast/lunch/snacks and a meal I have to make in the evening.
My favorite is my "del a crumb burrito" 2 cheese sticks some dukes mayo with olive oil and a snack-sized nacho Doritos size crushed up all wrapped up in 1 flour tortilla. It satisfies my crunch and soft cravings and my salty sweet cravings.
Note also that it is sometimes useful to be able to disinfect water by boiling.
Went stoveless after a few hundred miles on the AT this year. I cold soaked at first with a Ziploc plastic container then went with the Vargo Bot later. For me it was all about being lazy not dealing with a stove every time I was eating. I also did some ramen soups for lunch, with a stove there is no way I would stop to cook at lunchtime but cold soaking made it easy.
Don't forget when people make comments on your cold oatmeal int the morning to tell them it's "Overnight oats", makes it way fancier ;)
"Overnight oats" ?
I started cold soaking this year and love the convenience of it. When I hit a water source a few hours before a meal (lunch or dinner) I fill up my jar and start the soaking process.
When I get to camp, I don't have to worry about using up my last bit of water for food prep plus, dinner is ready to eat and clean up is easy. Uncle Ben's Long Grain and Wildrice is delicious. I also tried a variety of dehydrated meals and didn't like them a bit.
Lastly, the issue of cold coffee wasn't an problem for me because I end up drinking cold coffee nearly every afternoon at home but, I understand it being a deal killer. My wife would sooner die than drink cold coffee.
Thanks for the videos.
For some reason the title of this cracked me up. The “is it right for you” makes it sound so serious. 😄
DAMN SERIOUS!....lol
Hike On,
Darwin
ramen bean bomb sounds like a "you better hike in front of me after lunch" kinda of food
Thanks Darwin, I admire your attitude and execution! I could never cold soak. The idea of eating cold oatmeal or ramen turns my stomach a bit. But, more power to you! I am still working on figuring out what meals I can actually bring out with me. I am lactose intolerant, so a lot of the ready made stuff is out of the question. Besides all of that, I like the ritual of firing up my hobo wood-burning stove.
Hey Darwin, another great video, thank you. There is an 'in between' which I like to do. I started doing this for breakfast at first. Cold soak and then just warm up your food on a stove. No need to actually 'cook' just warm it up. I started doing this with oats, put oats and water in my cook pot before going to sleep, then the next morning just need to warm it up. Very easy, less fuel, and easier cleanup. Hot food is definitely a nice option to have. At the end of a really miserable cold, wet, rainy day, it is so nice to know that you can look forward to some hot food.This goes back to another video you did, discussing your personal thing's you want v weight constraint, getting your base weight down. I believe there is not much extra weight for a UL cook system compared to the morale value of a hot meal after a really bad wet, windy, rainy day. My 2 cents. Thank you for your awesome video's.
Personally I carry my stove with me 99% of the time when I'm out hiking. Even do it for the day hikes. I have tried cold soaking with ramen and instant mashed potatoes before and it's tolerable. But even if I don't have any food that requires hot water with me I still like to have a warm cup of coffee or tea to drink while taking a break out on a trail.
Love the videos. Keep up the good work!
UkatzGaming
Totally agree!! Cold soaking is ok , I don’t mind it but nothing beats a nice hot ramen bomb or knorr sopa even on a day hike!
Same. I would bring a small stove for hot coffee and hot soup, even if I planned to eat mostly cold food. Also, most cold soaked food tastes bland and gritty to me, even if soaked for hours. OK for an emergency, but not every night.
Stoveless? Okaaaay, Cold food... okaaaaaaaaay... No Hot Coffee in the morning?? HELL naw!
I'll take the caffeine any way I can get but hot tea or coffee is great.
You've got to have boundaries in life.
I'm breaking the habit of caffeine so I sleep better, but on day 2 bought decaf green tea. Day 3...
Orrrrr campfire coffee
Pussy. Grow a pair n get on the trail already.
For day hikes fall-winter-spring my wife and I like to use an insulated food jar. Pre-heat the jar with hot water, then put in ingredients like minute rice, dehydrated pork shreds, dehydrated veggies, spices, oil or butter and hot water and 2-3 hours later we have a great hot meal! I would not take it on an over night (because of the weight), but for a nice meal on the trail on a day hike it works well!
Interesting topic. I either go stoveless or carry a stove depending on the hike. All cold soaking seems to me is eliminating the heat up step and saving a few ounces by not carrying a stove. You still have clean up to do after you eat. It all comes down to personal preference and comfort. Thanks for the video. Merry Christmas!
Absolutely Michael! HYOH!
Hike On,
Darwin
Different strokes for different folks. I actually like some backpacking food. :) I really like hot food for dinner.
I like ANYTHING that is edible when I'm on the trail! Hot or Cold, Wet or Dry, Plant or Animal.... I don't discriminate on Trail Food!...lol
Hike On,
Darwin
same i just love hot ramen and instant stuff time to time even at home,and very hot
Sooo...why eat at all? If you're not going to be more than about five days max on the trail between towns and you're reasonably healthy there's no physiological absolute necessity to eat. Pig out in town. Fasting has been shown to be very beneficial, can even help you live longer. Think of all the weight you'll save, and the time. You could be walking rather than stirring. And time saved pooping, too, what goes in must come out and all.
BTW how do you clean that Talenti jar and your spork without hot water? That thing looks like one big Petri dish...
brimstone33 don't be silly,during a trail a lots of calories is used,not eating with long effort like that could be dangerous...
and about sanitizing the jar you have some gels that can sanitizing your jar with very low water use...
look like you don't go outside hiking a lots...
Well there's no problem whatsoever in using lots of calories, that's what they're there for. To be burned up. Please explain, with your understanding of metabolic physiology, exactly how a healthy person with normal bodyfat and metabolism (not diabetic or prone to hypoglycemia etc) is harmed by not eating for three days. They're just not, humans are in fact physically evolved for just such eating patterns. It is in fact the modern habit of eating every few hours which is a huge medical problem.
And it is a really bad idea to clean your pot with hand sanitizer especially if you don't have water to rinse it away. That stuff is harmful if ingested, don't take my word for it just read the label.
And it
The last recipe just killed any desire to do any hiking at all.
Thank you.
This is the first I’ve heard of cold soaking. Definitely want to try that recipe you shared. Going camping next week so it sounds like a good time to try it.
Literally every time you say "I like to use the Tilenti Icecream jars because for $8 you get a super good cold soaking jar, and free icecream" I lose it and burst out laughing. Your sense of humor is pure gold, Darwin. :D This video was amazing!!!! Thanks for making it!
I actually had never heard of "cold soaking" and "going stoveless" until you started mentioning you might start messing around with it. On my hikes, I always cold soaked my couscous and oatmeal (it tastes better to me) and on all shorter summer trips and some fall trips I go stoveless (yay hot muggy buggy east coast). It's kind of interesting that I was doing these things before I knew they had a name and a place in UL backpacking.
Hell Yeah! Nothing better than Free Icecream!
Hike On,
Darwin
I guess for $8 the ice cream is sprinkled with a little bit of gold dust too! ;-))
I always thought that "Ben & Jerry's" and "Häagen-Dazs" was already overpriced!
At least you end up with a durable container.
You must be shopping at the wrong store if Talenti is $8. It's $3.99 during frequent sales at a few of my local stores.
I haven't gotten the chance to go out on the trail yet. But I will definitely try cold soaking when I do.
Thanks for the info Darwin. I take my BRS stove but more for hot coffee in the morning than for food. Gotta have a hot cup of coffee in the morning. It’s one of my favorite parts of hiking/camping.
This was actually really informative. As it turns out, I'm a bit too attached to my hot meals- but I really appriciated the perspective and the general info. Cheers!
I'm tired of cooking dried noodles on stove top. And thanks for the idea of add ins for Ramien Noodles. I always discard those flavor packets. Chicken and beef broths taste good too, but I don't know about using broth for trail soaking.
I have been dehydrating certain foods, for emergency storage and for camping. I'll take a bag of mixed vegetables from the freezer section of the store and dehydrate them. When I'm camping, instead of rehydrating them and making a soup or a side dish, I eat them without rehydrating them. They are actually quite delicious that way. It concentrates the sweetness. Just make sure you don't eat too much, and drink plenty of water with it. Kind of cold soaking it in my stomach. With these vegetables and jerky I can make a fairly complete meal.
Cold soaking also might work well to rehydrate something before you cook it. Once you let it sit for a while while, you're hiking or doing chores or something, when you're ready you just heat it up and it's all set to go. I don't know, but it might save some fuel and time.
While I am not a hiker I ride ADV and Dual Sport Motorcycles. I look at food as fuel. Seems like a lot of people want a gourmet experience on the trail. It doesn't seem feasible. When I get to a town I will chow down. Never thought of cold soaking. I have been getting some great info from your channel that I can relate to my stuff. Thanks for the great content!
Hi. Loved the clarity. Thought to add two safety angles on this too.
1. If you are a hot food eater then good to know cold soaking is a viable option, if you run out of fuel. This might also mean it is wise to eat non cold soak food first, so if you run out of fuel, loose your fuel, or suffer a stove malfunctions later you are covered, or to hedge your bets further, without being too paranoid, only take food that can be eaten cold. A fire is not always possible when a stove breaks down.
2. Cold soak only in treated/safe to drink water.
My buddy just did the PCT with both a stove AND a Talenti for soaking. Talenti now offers a quart size container. More free ice cream to enjoy!
I have always packed "Casbah" Hummus and Tabouli. Although the instructions say add hot water you can use cold and just give it time. Highly recommend.
Great video. Cold soaking is not my thing. I'll take the added weight of bringing along my stove. Plus...Gotta have my hot coffee in the morning!
If you're the creative type... I had the same intention, a warm cup of coffee. Compact. Easy. Nothing more.
I've made a coffee system that fits neatly inside a 200 ml metal cup. I think I can fit 2 weeks worth of morning coffee/fuel, if not more, inside it.
Just tried cold soaking for the first time on a 3 day hike yesterday. What I learnt;
In good conditions, its easy and conveinent
In bad conditions, you will be jealous of your friends with a stove
Don't bother with Dried beans, chickpeas or lentils. They take waaaaay too long (after almost 12 hours the lentils were just edible and the Bertolli beans were still hard)
Use a big jar, as I filled mine quite quickly. I was using a 400g peanut butter jar, I just bought an 870g jar to use next time.
Thanks for the video. I view eating like you. A bodily function. This video gives a lot of good data about it. I've been going stoveless, and was curious about the cold soaking thing since you mentioned it in prior videos. i'd always just bring peanut butter, Snickers bars, cheese and tuna but i want to try the cold soaking. Thanks again. I've watched a lot of your videos for some time now, and you have definitely taught me a lot. I appreciate what you do. My goal is Everest. In 6 years.
Take a stove when you do Everest.
I am usually backpacking or kayaking in cold northern climates so consider a stove a survival necessity to stave off hypothermia and cold exhaustion. After a long day of being wet and very active, nothing beats a hot meal - It is something to look forward to when you are feeling low late afternoon. It need not weigh much. I am currently using a German sub-2 oz twig stove made of 4 pieces of very thin spring stainless steel sheet metal which packs flat inside the base of my aluminium cookpot. The pot lid is homemade from beer can aluminium. Fuel is pencil-size twigs collected from dead standing trees on location. A few solid fuel tablets are carried as wet weather insurance and fire starters in tricky conditions.
I think trail food actually tastes better outdoors - or maybe I am just hiking so hungry that anything tastes good. I have been known to wolf down corned beef with a spoon, straight from the can. Smells a bit like dog food but your body relishes in the calorie dense animal fat, salt and protein. Mmmm! - and it does not require cooking - the same goes for anything in a can.
Happy trails and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.
Hunger is the best spice
Darwin...I'm so excited! I just became a believer. I just finished hiking the PCT section from Tehachapi towards Kennedy Meadows. I was dealing with heat exhaustion and didn't have the energy to get my stove out and hot food sounded disgusting to me while sitting in 90+ degree weather. So, I poured some water into my ziploc bag, let it sit while I rested. It worked perfectly and because of the weather, it was not "cold" food. My favorite was Knorr's Taco Rice in a tortilla. I really didn't think the rice would work, but it did. I think it only soaked about 2 hours. I had also added homemade dehydrated chicken and mixed vegetables to my meals. They rehydrated perfectly also. Never once pulled out my pot or stove. I can see still taking the stove in the Sierras though.
Thanks for sharing Darwin. I personally love a hot meal but this is definitely something I'm going to experiment with. 👍🏻
Started cold soaking on hunting trips works great. Not as good as hot food but up in the tree stand it’s nice to eat an actual meal not just snacks I’m looking forward to cold soaking in my kayak when fishing. Awesome videos man
NICE!
Hike On,
Darwin
Thank you for this and your gear on a budget videos ! Happily planning our next family camping trip with these in mind!
When I was hiking a lot I used a lot of peanut butter jars, saved from home. I kept one designated for my coffee mix and then used used them for dumping packets and mixing dried ingredients ahead of time to minimize trash. A whole dried meal (minus ingredients that start to spoil when opened) could fit in there and it is perfect for cold soaking because they seal up nice. Then when you are done you can certainly clean it up and reuse it or as a last ditch use before disposing, they make a great tiny trash receptacle or midnight pee jar.
I know pb jars are a little bulky in the pack but they are nice organizers when you need a hard sided container and they are UL and they are "cheap with free peanut butter"
Old school GORP being 47 the old ways tend to be the best. Jerky is always good although I prefer noncommercial types for long hikes, too much nitraits. dehydrated meats I make at home are better quality and better controlled. Cold soaking is good for warm climates. Getting that ballance of nutrition and flavor will be an adventure in it's self. Thanks for the tips and advise
Great info. Clear, concise and detailed. I would probably only do cold soaking for breakfast with oatmeal, chia seeds, dried mango, and i found some dried coconut milk POWDER at a health food store. Add dried nuts/coconut flakes and have a big calorie meal.
Back when I was in the Army in the seventies, we had freeze dry foods we use to call lerps for long range patrol foods. My platoon Sgt said when he was Viet Nam he was taught to add water to his lerps resealed it then place it between his shirt and body. They will go on a patrol and when they took a break to eat they would take the food which was warmed up from ur body heat and have a warm decent chow food for thought
So far I'm cold soaking in hot weather, and cooking in cold weather. I have a BRS stove, and titanium pot, and don't carry fuel if it I'll be cold I just buy a canister when I I resupply. Also I use a GSI silicon spoon that cleans out the container better than anything I've ever used. DARWIN CHECK OUT THAT GSI SPOON!
Hi! For our 2014 ten day Bowron Lake Provincial Park "circuit" trip, my wife prepared and dehydrated the food for 12 people (weighing under 10lbs per day). After the first evening meal of Corned Beef and Cabbage that was a little chewy, we started cold soaking our food in a pot at the end of the previous meal (after lunch for dinner, after dinner for breakfast). Most of the meals were one-pot type and we would put the pot of food and soaking water under the seat of the canoe and continue paddling. As long as we didn't tip over everything would be perfectly rehydrated and ready for the stove. Didn't require boiling or cooking, just reheating. So this is a combination of cold soaking and hot meals. Lunch was always cold like Sumner sausage cheese and crackers and the like. It is quite a bit different when feeding a group. The mid point meal was spaghetti in sauce, peas, dehydrated garlic bread and no- bake cherry cheese cake for dessert. Everything was packed dry except the cherry sauce.
Loved your idea of cold soaking on the hot section of the PCT and then bringing a stove later. I ran into two women hiking the CD last weekend, they introduced me to cold soaking and I'd love to learn more. I think this is something I can incorporate into my camping! I recently swapped out coffee (something I thought I'd never do!) for a green smoothie powder, which meant I only really need a stove for dinners (or hot oats). I'm going to look around a bit for some cold soak ideas :) Happy hiking!
I've cold soak as well for awhile now, mostly during warmer times of the year. I've always just put water directly on my food that's in a quart sized zip lock freezer bag and I just eat directly from the bag. I've even left the titanium spoon at home and just squeezed the food directly into my mouth by cutting the corner off the bag. The plastic container seems like dead weight since it's only used during eating AND you have to clean it every time....
Brilliant. That's breaking it down to the lowest common denominator right there. No fuel, pot, stove, spoon, container, cooking or cleaning. Just pour the water in, soak, clip the corner and eat. Man I'm glad I read down through all of these. Thank You Joe!
Just did 5 day hike on cold food. Didn't take my home made dehydrated food deciding to try meal replacements for breakfast and dinner which were good. Before i left i decanted them from sachets they came in and them in zip lock bag to minimise carrying packaging out. Just shook them up in a peanut butter container with wire ball. During the day I ate about 400 calories of high fat nuts, 400 calories of homemade jerky, a granola bar and a squeeze bag of fruit used for toddlers. Also had peanut butter in a ziplock bag which looked unappetizing but was a great treat super high in calories. Getting it out was a problem so will use smaller jars next time.
I like your strategy for the PCT. You'll be super toned by the time you hit the sierras and the extra weight/time might not matter as much. I cold soak oats at home, some coconut oil really helps the calories and nutrience go up. Bit of weight though...
Having a bowl of warm food after setting up camp is one of the greatest things with hiking, for me. I usually make my own dehydrated food and add spices, Also being able to pick some mushrooms and fry spontanously, and getting good hot coffee. I would never trade that for cold soaking. Maybe for lunches on the longer hikes. I also live in sweden so nights might be a bit colder here too. A couple of summers ago it was so dry outside and wildfires, so we couldnt use any kind of stove, and were forced to go stoveless. But I wouldnt choose to.
You can warm your food while it is cold soaking so it's a little nicer to eat. I learned this trick in the military eating MREs out of their retort pouches. What you do is put the pouch someplace under your clothing (shirt usually in a tight area, between your body and back pack for example) in contact with your skin. So, as you are hiking or setting stuff up or whatever, the meal is warming in the pouch via your body heat. If I know I'll be setting for a while, I just tuck a pouch under my thigh and let it warm. How do you know if it's working? You'll feel the cold pouch against your skin, that means you are losing body heat. How do you know when it's done? You won't feel it any more. This will also work if you use a zip lock bag if your food does not come in a retort (or use the pouch the dried food comes in, just need to be able to seal it back up after you open it and add water).
Want to get into no cook trips, was very pleased to see you had a video on it, I always get a lot of great info from you. This one was also. Thanks!
Cold soaking, thought not much of it, but makes sense at the end of a hot days hike. Have to try it, Thanks Darwin really enjoy your videos. Spend a lot of time on the At!!
This is awesome. I wasn't sure how to pull this off but now I have some ideas brewing. Thanks for making this 🤩
I cold soaked for the AZT, planning on doing so again for the CDT this year.
Loved soaking oatmeal with chia seeds (it's just your fancy refrigerated overnight oats at home!). Stir some chocolate protein powder in there mmmm. Also, dehydrated eggs make a good stir-in for just about anything-- oatmeal, mashed potatoes, ramen bomb... they add protein and fat and the flavor is so mild, it's fairly easy to cover up if you so desire.
Thanks Darwin, much like cold MRE’s, but without the added weight (many of those are pretty good cold.) I also recently saw a vid of a guy who sprouts beans while hiking. He hangs them from a wet bag off his ruck. Good vid!
Thanks, Darwin. I just emptied a peanut butter jar today and will be trying out your ideas over the winter to see what works before I hit the trails this summer. Will be fun to experiment :-)
It's always fun to Experiment with Trail Food!
Hike On,
Darwin
Make sure to double check the lid on the peanut butter jar, I had one leak like crazy last week.
The colder the water, the longer the soak. I haven't tried cold soaking in the winter but I'd plan on longer soak times. Good luck!
mayo jars work good.
Regular gluten free noodles cold soak in 30 mins. But I cold soak oatmeal with freeze dried fruit all the time. Most of my food items are quick grabs anyways. I eat almost continually, as I have a fast metabolism. I don’t leave the stove at home because I never know how I’m going to feel. I keep a trangia or vargo titanium wood stove just in case. It really conserves on fuel. The titanium bot looks perfect, thanks for the idea. I don’t like to put food in my Klean Kanteen, which would work, but I only use it for water
Tried this tonight for dinner (planning my first multiple day hike on the Trans Catalina Trail) and wanted to make sure I could. Cous cous, dried bell peppers, taco seasoning and tuna. It was actually taste (for me). Thanks Darwin for all the info that has me wanting to do this four day hike
I'm definitely going to try cold soaking. But, during cold and/or rainy weather - hot meals are king. No cook meals are almost always part of my meal plans. And, on shorter hikes sometimes I cook from scratch - comfort food, fun, challenging, and delicious!
On Everglades Canoe trips I like to put Dried Beans , Rice , Dehydrated Celery , Dried Onion , seasonings and water in a Nalgene bottle. I let the bottle roll around in the canoe while paddling during the day. When supper time came I would put everything in a pot and warm it up. The extra bonus would be a fresh caught and cleaned fish to go along with the meal.
I enjoy a hot beverage in the morning to get my motor running. The rest of the meals can either be cold or hot , just depends on what I want. I use either a wood burning stove ( Solo Stove Lite ) since the fuel for it is everywhere or a alcohol stove , depends on the trip.
Chuck Littleton mmmmmm, sounds good! I almost forgot about dried onions!
Yeah, I absolutely need hot coffee to keep living, so yeah I have my stove. However, cold soaking breakfast and lunch is pretty dope.
I think a hot meal is important to get some satisfaction so you (me) maintain some "good associations" to hiking... I understand that it feels good to finish at a good time - but im not some "hiking machine" (lol), so when i need a break every now and again, i think it is really nice to combine that with making some half decent food... I dont do long hikes though (at least not yet). Usually just some short dayhikes around the local forests, with the occasional camping trip... But i just ordered the Duplex tent, and i have been wanting to backpack and/or bikepack or "kayak-packing" for maybe a month some day. Hopefully next summer.
I've been section hiking the Oregon Coast Trail this month. With all the wind and surf, I find I crave hot tea. This has happened in the heat of the redrock backcountry in Utah, too. I almost don't care what the food is, but having a hot drink is a real boost.
Gold. Pure gold.
I HAVE had hot meals on my AT Thru-hike that I DID enjoy as much as anything at home. Few, but there WERE a few.
Great information...I have always cooked but have used a lot of non-cook options except rehydrating...I may have to try it...I am normally out 3-4 weeks so I most likely would carry a stove anyway but I have been thinking about this for a while...overall if the flavor is there I can save some time,pack volume and weight ...
Thanks for this!! I’m attempting my first thru hike next year and have been thinking I want to go stoveless but didn’t know how I’d work that out. This video helps so much haha
Good day Darwin,
i totally dig your video l. In agreement with cold soaking is not for everyone.
Here is a great recipe for a power breakfast
one packet of regular oatmeal
1/4 cup of vanilla protein mix
1/4 cup of dehydrated fruit like bananas or strawberries or blueberries
add water soak over night and enjoy a great boost for the morning
also merry xmas to all the hiker trash
thanks again D fir the vids
I used to dehydrate some cooked pasta, dehydrated bolognese and dehydrated tomato sauce, mixed 'em all together and cold soak it. it was like having a home cooked meal every night. really made my evenings!
It's nice to be so hungry from hiking that most anything tastes good ;)
Another excellent video Darwin. In normal life I hardly ever cook so I started questioning why I would want to do it on trail. 99% of the time, I treat food as fuel--just trying to hit my daily macronutrient targets. If I'm craving something tasty, I go to a restaurant with a professional chef who can do it much better than I can.
I love to cook on the trail. But something really good cold soaked is pasta salad. They are meant to be served cold and taste pretty good, and you can find them in most grocery stores. Never saw anyone else using them, until my friends saw me doing it, and it with us it became a cool thing to have to shake things up, expecially when it was hot.
Tried cold soaking recently when I ran out of fuel. My daughter and I tried two different things for our breakfast. She tried cold soaked ramen and I did instant oatmeal with hot chocolate in it. We soaked them overnight. We both ate about 1/3 of it and couldn't stomach any more. I think the main thing was that they were cold and we really wanted something hot for breakfast on our last day. Also our recipes may not have been the best. The hot chocolate just sort of congealed a bit as did the oil from the soup packet for the ramen. I can see how it could work but since I am already carrying a cooking pot the stove and fuel doesn't add much weight so I think I will keep cold soaking as a back-up plan.
Ramen Bean bomb oh yeah got to try that on my next trip. Thanks for covering cold soaking I know you've peaked a lot of interest.
Another great video. I honestly had some reservations about this when I heard you talking about it in other videos, but for the convenience, I can see the appeal. As always, your efforts are appreciated.
I went stove less for my most recent trip to the ADKs and it wasn’t all bad. Cold soaking sounds like a neat idea, and like you said, at the end of a hot day you don’t really want hot food. Im going to have to give this a try. Thanks for the starter recipe. Haha.
I don't always go stoveless, but when I do... I choose Talenti
LOL! Good one!
😂😂😂😂 keep soaking my friend
I've read about LRRP's in Vietnam that would cold soak their LRRP rations before missions rather than fiddle with heating in the field, by the time they got to their night position it was all rehydrated. That was the first I had ever heard of anyone doing it.
Than you were lied to ...C-Rations and the MRE's that came after them are fully hydrated foods and do not require rehydration..
Actually LRPs were freeze dried and so they would have been able to cold-soak them. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LRP_ration
I’d have a hard time giving up my stove, even though I hate carrying the fuel cans around. I could probably go without a warm dinner some days in the summer, but warm coffee and breakfast in the morning is a big motivator for me to break camp and put in miles for the day.
I have cold coffee in the morning, but even back when I carried a stove all the time, I've never been into a "Warm" breakfast on the trail.
Hike On,
Darwin
If I'm going to out for a couple of days I simply take a loaf of whole grain bread, and a small jar of peanut butter and jelly. It's calorie dense, fairly light and easy to put a sandwich together. Best of all it tastes great and fills me up. And there is no cleanup except wiping my knife. Snacks are trail mix and dried fruit.
Have not tried "Cold Soaking", but doesn't mean that I never will. But I am now and always have carried a stove. I do carry tuna, mayo packets, small tortilla wraps for a cold meal. Hike on !!!!!
Give it a try, you might dig it!
Hike On,
Darwin
Bean bomb looks like a must try. 👍🏻👍🏻
Fart!
Thanks darwin. Im trying to cold soak. So far my recipies were yukky. Im going to keep trying though til i hit it right. Im convince it will work.
I’ve been cold soaking breakfast and lunch since the late 1970’s and will continue the practice. Dinner is something hot.
If you’re going to use plastic bags of whatever brand, think hard about double bagging unless you want a mess in your pack. If you’re going to be gaining any significant altitude check your bags frequently. If you have a good seal they can blow up like a balloon.
I’m starting cold soaking.... learning what works for me. I use a dehydrator extensively. There needs to be a sort of information and idea clearinghouse so we can share experiences with this. Currently it’s every man for himself. Eventually, I expect the big names in backpacking foods to start a line of cold soak products. Coffee is a big deterrent, but a metal cup and light weight stand and fuel tab solves that without the need to carry much.
I was missing the AT, so I just made a ramen bomb at my home in Atlanta. Now I get to watch your video while I eat. Thanks Darwin!
lol... No Prob Scout! Enjoy your Bomb!
Hike On,
Darwin
I think cold soaking is pretty interesting but I really do love a hot meal. Everyone definitely needs to hike their own hike.
One point I will add though. Having a stove can be a safety item. I watched a video about a backpacker who used a stove to boil water and keep his body temperature up when he went on a wet cold hike and wasn't prepared. Just an extra incentive for me to keep my stove.