Why America Is Running Out Of Carpenters - Cheddar Explains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- The United States now has a skilled trade labor shortage of around 650,000 people, but among them it’s carpenters who top the list. Where have they all gone? We break it down to three reasons.
Further reading:
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics:
www.bls.gov/cp...
Angi:
www.angi.com/r...
Associated Builders and Contractors:
www.abc.org/Ne...
Stanley Black & Decker:
www.stanleybla...
www.stanleybla...
DeWalt Survey:
www.multivu.co...
Bisnow:
www.bisnow.com...
Forbes:
www.forbes.com...
www.forbes.com...
Peopleready:
www.peopleread...
PR Newswire:
www.prnewswire...
Yahoo:
www.yahoo.com/...
www.yahoo.com/...
finance.yahoo....
Construction Dive:
www.constructi...
Insider:
www.businessin...
FRED Economic Data
fred.stlouisfe...
NAHB:
www.nahb.org/b...
NPR:
www.npr.org/se...
Big Rentz:
www.bigrentz.c...
www.bigrentz.c...
The Honest Carpenter:
• WHERE HAVE ALL THE CAR...
• THE TRADES ARE DYING.....
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*There is no shortage of skilled workers*
There is only a shortage of skilled workers willing to work for peanuts.
The carpenters are here. We've just learned that we can make more working for ourselves, or in other fields.
You know that. I worked for myself for many years, doing other things as well, and made more money. I got back into carpentry but I demand what I want for a wage these days. We're sick of getting pushed around
Exactly! All skilled professionals are in the same boat. Running a small business is a lot more complicated than just knowing how to do the work clients pay you for, but it's the only way to make a decent living and not be taken advantage of by employers who want to pay at the level of a novice top-quality deliverables. I'm a journalist/copywriter, photographer and graphic designer. Publishing companies and corporate marketing departments think I should be willing to give them the benefit of more than 35 years of experience and my expensive cameras, computers, and software and be grateful for a measly $30 an hour. The only way to make a decent living is to be self-employed.
I've been working freelance online for 10 years and my husband and I started a regional photography and website building company a few years ago. We're free to decide when and for whom we work, and we never charge less than $75 per hour. Plus we get all the tax benefits, too. Companies who don't understand the value of exceptional work - in our world, this includes professional photos, signage and marketing materials - are bound to fail This holds true for real estate developers who skimp on payroll for all the construction trades, only they usually don't fail until after they've already pocketed millions due to the value of the real property. I hope someday this will change but I'm not holding my breath.
Even in developing nations the youth are demanding better income. If their rural communities can't provide decent income then they move to the cities.
"There is no shortage of skilled workers
There is only a shortage of skilled workers willing to work for peanuts."
There is a shortage of skilled workers, because few go into it due to the pay. There isn't a vast pool of tradesmen sitting around waiting for wages to go up. The ones that are are also the ones aging out.
@@wisenber There is a "vast pool of tradesmen" waiting for better pay.
Why are you trying to correct me on a subject you have no knowledge or experience in? Are you really that arrogant?
If you had been paying attention you would have learned that there are many qualified tradesmen out there that are not working in the industry. But they would, if the pay was better.
Damn, how are you so ignorant, and confident at the same time? Lol.
There will be a shortage, in the future, if thigs don't change. But currently there is no shortage, if they pay is right.
It's sad to know that a real-estate agent makes more on a home than the carpenter that built it
feeling said - Junior Lebowski
That is extremely sad...
They are snakes
Not so much sad as utterly outrageous and infuriating…
@@ClarkCastroI can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people have to deviate from the original print plans because the architect wasn’t educated enough in the field and only understood theory.
I was a carpenter.
The pay sucks.
We build multimillion dollar homes while we can't even afford to build ourselves a modest home.
General contractors keep all the money.
We build America and live in poverty.
Long hours in all weather, no one cares.
It wrecks our body too, no ins or retirement.
That's why you can't get people to aspire to be carpenters.
So be a general contractor then. Too many folks don't want to put their time in to learn the job. Even surgical specialists spend a DECADE of 80 hour/week on the job training (and that's AFTER medical school) to get fully certified and until then they don't make much.
@@oldtwinsna8347 The barrier to entry keeps getting bigger, for every job. Older nurses could get the job out of high school, new nurses take pre-med, 4 years of college and it's an extremely difficult medical degree to earn before they come in making half as much. Older general contractors set their businesses up by themselves when the market was loosely regulated. Now there's zoning, code enforcement, environmental, and banking regulations out the wazoo so an upcoming GC needs to retain a team of lawyers just to get into the industry.
Lmao you can’t afford to build a home because you are a debt slave. Don’t blame your poor decisions on the trade.
@@gorkyd7912 this is completely made up bullshit.
@@apersonontheinternet8006 I'm not a debt slave, I have zero debt. I probably made better decisions than you did. My parents built a house for $20k on land they bought for $9k. For me the land would cost over $70k and it would cost over $20k just to dig a well and get power connected. Don't tell me my bad decisions are the reason I can't earn 10X as much as my parents.
They say there is a teacher shortage, carpenter shortage, truck driver shortage... EVERY job can't be struggling to find workers.
Maybe jobs don't pay enough anymore.
That's the kicker, every job CAN be struggling to find workers. It's a mix of jobs paying way too little and Americans these days being too lazy to work.
@@Hitherto90 most Americans wouldn't be so "lazy" of they were paid right. It's hard to have the energy and motivation to put in effort when you can hardly afford to house and feed yourself.
Oh no! The “this generation is lazy!” Argument!
Nevermind the fact that inflation have gone faster than the minimum wage. Many Americans are working multiple jobs just to afford rent.
Jobs pay plenty. We Americans have an incredibly inflated sense of what we need to survive and be comfortable. We’re still an extremely well off country. Even poor people in America have it good compared to some other nations.
Maybe? Bruh the pay is shit most of the time
Pay them more and you’ll get more people wanting to enter the trade.
@@WillmobilePlus That’s exactly the kind of attitude that’s driving people out of the industry.
@@WillmobilePlus you just assume he's a clown? He didn't say pay them more just for breathing, he said if you pay them more, more people would join the trade, which is a fact. The company I work for had to raise wages to get new workers to apply, and it worked. When the cost of goods and services rise, wages have to adjust to the new prices, or else you're effectively getting a pay cut. It's just basic economics. Why would I stay at your company if a better job is paying equal or more?
@@WillmobilePlus What are you, an idiot?
@@WillmobilePlus what a stupid comment
You probably love Elon
@@chimchu3232 >He didn't say pay them more just for breathing, he said if you pay them more, more people would join the trade,
From the pot-o-gold they all have sitting around? Oh, like let's just dig into the secret stash here and "pay you more" when you have zero experience?
Then you complain when job sites are full of Hispanics?
Ive been working as a carpenter for 5 years, so just about approaching journeyman level. And I quit. Im going back to bartending and waiting tables. The hours are endless, the pay sucks, youre expected to provide all your own expensive tools and an expensive gas guzzling truck and then stand outside getting sunburnt or frostbitten all day. After taxes and expenses of maintaining tools and a vehicle take home ended up being around 15/16 an hour with no benefits. Why on earth would I choose to break my back, work in a toxic industry full of grumpy mean geezers building other people homes when Im not getting paid enough to afford my own home. Its a shit deal. Dont have enough of any profession? pay them more and it will change over night. Sick of hearing "this generation doesnt want to work anymore" when ive been busting my ass and still been on the brink of homelessness while you provide housing for others. Its not that we dont want to work, we just dont want to work for YOU. Because we see that its a bad deal. We see that there are no well paying options. And we see the developers showing up in their f350 lariat with a clean bed and no rust and no stains on their brand new carhartt. We know the money is coming in and were not getting it. So we quit. Its ass backwards and if people want it to change they gotta start paying real money. The only time Ive made any decent money in carpentry was working for myself. If you work for someone else they will always take your surplus value created. And then they bitch about "why cant I find reliable guys" lmao, get with it or get gone. Im glad I did it, now I have theses skills forever and I will always be able to fix things myself and be self reliant, but until the pay and work culture drastically improves I wouldnt recommend anyone touch the industry with a 20 ft pole
Jeebus christ that's awful. And yeah, fuck the people that say you don't work hard enough!
Thank you for summary, i stop watch video at 30 second mark
Don't carpenters have a union?
Your also forgetting its a fairly low skill job
I'd say that 15$ is quite reasonable
(Now accounting for savings/"benefits" and insurance and stuff you might be better off flipping burgers) but again that's your choice
Don't wonna do it Don't
But you can't expect amazing pay your labor isn't worth that much
If it were the msrket would balace and there wouldn't be a shortage
(And I do find the narrative of a shortage a bit absurd
Ideally when there aren't enough carpenters people do such things as switch to other materials be it stuff like concrete aluminum or lighter stuff like icf just to give an example
Even plastics
But change can take a while and people like to maintain old homes rather then tear them down I guess...
It depends..
(Stuff like concrete are also quite a bit more expensive in the short term but require less maintenance so................)
That's the market working
@@donotlike4anonymus594 lmao low skill. if you think 15 is fair for anyone with the cost of living these days, let alone for the work carpenters do you are smoking crack. Go memorize the intl code book, learn all your local codes that contradict it, learn how to do rough and fine carpentry, basic concrete work and rough electrical and plumbing knowledge and then go stack roofs for 12hrs a day 6 days a week, realize thats whats expected and then come talk to me about "its low skill". "low skill labor" is a myth sold to you to justify paying people starvation wages so ceos can line their pockets. Im sure you like living in a house. The people building it deserve their pay. Nobodys asking for amazing pay, or to become a millionaire overnight. We are asking for fair compensation for physically and mentally demanding labor that is the backbone of any society. Thats for all builders and tradespeople.
When there are too many workers and not enough demand then no one seems to think twice about reducing worker's salary. But when there is too much demand and not enough workers at a given salary level, then companies act like they have an impossible problem and they have no idea what the solution could be.
It's not an impossible problem, they just have fewer workers so projects take longer.
THANK YOU for pointing out the absolute HYPOCRISY of conservatives, matthew banta!
It’s not that “this generation doesn’t want to work anymore” it’s because people don’t want to be exploited anymore. So many trades, careers, and jobs pay way too little for it’s actual worth. Look at mechanics, truckers, loggers, wild fire fighters, etc etc. Plus there’s lack of trade education in high school and outside.
EXACTLY!!
Yep. I’m a software engineer being laid off for third time to be replaced by cheap low quality labor. Always had good reviews, was praised for quality design etc. We tell people in this country “work hard if you want those good wages.” Well I’ve done that and had the rug pulled out from under me 3 times. My incentive to “work hard” is nearly gone.
My high school is a well known trade school in my area
My husband is a skilled carpenter but we unfortunately like to eat and have a home to live in. Because of this, he no longer works as a carpenter.
I'm a fan of Karen Carpenter
@@eddiew2325 kinky
Driving to my last day on the job now. 17vyears in. Knees are shit and backs done. I'm going into insurance adjusting
Sarah what does he do now?
Back in 1970 my father told me there was a severe shortage of brand new Cadillacs selling for $1000, but no shortage at all of Caddie's selling at $10,000. It all depends on how much you are willing to pay.
But there were cheap/affordable Cadillacs in 1970 that were far more plentiful. They were called Chevrolets.
This is a great story
@@stevearcher6100 I have lived in the SF Bay Area now for 40 years, home owner for 35 of those years. Used to be that all of the house repair and maintenance trades were white owners with mixed white and black workers. Later, it was more common to see white owners with Hispanic workers. Now, it is mostly Hispanic owners (trades, like plumbing, painting) or Middle Eastern owners (General contractors) with Hispanic workers. Based on reroof, drain replacement, various plumbing jobs, two kitchen remodels, some electrical work. Got a Chinese firm to do our new wooden window blinds, 65% the cost of Home Depot and holding up fine. The only exception seems to be electricians, but my sample size is small. Plumbers are 100% Hispanic, and my sample size is pretty big, at least half a dozen jobs. All have done good work, but of course I screen the contractors very carefully. The rise of Middle Eastern home remodeling GCs around here is quite interesting.
A good old man taught me carpentry and construction when I was 17, 18, 19. He told me, he was teaching me so I could handle my own when needed and as fall back skills for if times got tough and i needed work. He also told me if I made a career out of it, he'd break both of my legs before watching me destroy my body for little to no return. I kept doing ut a few years, went to college for programming, ended up a full Fabricator/welder/maintenance. He was right. I have a completely different career now and will live homeless before I ever work for someone else in the trades again. Sure, I use those skills daily for myself, those I care about and my own personal gain. I won't join that work force again. Treated like the trash while building, designing and fixing what these people want. Most wouldn't have anything if it wasn't for us.
Nah bro, the trash on a job site gets treated better than the workers.
@@jeffshackleford3152 You're not wrong.
I'm a carpenter and I concur. It's hard to find good Carpenters out there, even people who know basic things. But part of the problem is that nobody takes Carpenter seriously or pays a fair wage. I could make 40 bucks an hour, but I also have to buy my own tools and pay gas to drive to various job sites. People don't realize how important it is. Until people are willing to pay Carpenters Fair wages, including the contractors, there won't be anybody interested in taking the job.
40 bucks is good money. one set of tools is in the hundreds, and you make thousands. and everybody drives to work so..
@@MrKongatthegates Agreed. Before this work from home tirade, people routinely commuted 2+ hours a day one-way in brutal traffic conditions for decades on end. Not sure why this whining and complaining about.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Holy hell, have none of you conservative dipshits ever worked a carpenting job in your lives?!
@@cordfortina9073 you’d be surprised how many people in other industries don’t actually have 20k put aside at 40 years old. People show off this middle class lifestyle, range rovers etc but it’s all bad debt.
This is where the rubber meets the road, if you’re an employee why are you expected to supply tools? Do people who work white collar jobs have to supply a desk and printer? It’s crazy that an industry as large as construction with its massive economic contribution is basically kept going by a bunch of guys with no job security, no healthcare, no pension, no employment perks living on a diet of cigarettes and energy drinks.
Contractors keep taking a larger and larger share of the productivity instead of sharing with the people who actually create the wealth.
This!
Profits go up year after year for the office, while pay is stagnant or even falling for the tradespeople that actually do the work.
There is no shortage of workers, only a shortage of fair pay.
Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) fraud is a big problem. Many contractors, being the capitalists they are, decided to steal those taxpayer funded loans for themselves. They didn't stop to realize that it's illegal and the law has a long arm.😄
That's the exchange you make when you become an employee. Less money for less hassle on your end with taxes, healthcare, ect. And guaranteed pay depending on your industry. Unfortunately, school just teaches you how to be a good employee, not an entrepreneur. So many choose to work for someone instead of being that someone.
@@NoobToobJamarMemes But only morons equate ripping people off with "being an entrepreneur".
@@NoobToobJamarMemes The "hassle" of paying taxes has nothing to do with why someone takes a job as an employee. None. Employees still pay taxes and for healthcare.
Also, there is no such thing as "guaranteed pay" in construction. If there is no work for the day, you stay home and *do not get paid*
School is not supposed to teach you to be an entrepreneur. That's not what school is for. Even if it was, not everyone can be a business owner. Someone has to be an employee for a business to function.
Also, not everyone wants to be an owner. Do you think a master craftsmen does not deserve a good wage, unless he is also the boss? What is wrong with you? You seem broken both morally, and intellectually.
I don't think it is possible for you to be more wrong. I mean you were wrong about everything, in every way.
It's actually impressive.
my step dad was a carpenter and it was miserable hard work that eventually killed him. He was a great carpenter and got paid well for one, being the lead on projects for as long as i knew him but we were not even middle class in arkansas. I'm not trying to do that for sure.
Being a carpenter is more dangerous than being a cop or even a soldier, but with less pay and much less respect.
Also, you can become a doctor with less training than becoming a journeyman carpenter. I hope you appreciated your step-dad, because he didn't get enough appreciation at work.
This video kicks off with a shot of a carpenter working at heights at the edge of a building without any fall protection. I wouldn't want my son to take that kind of risk, that's crazy!
Exactly, I was a field engineer and worked with a lot of tradespeople. All the trades, but especially low barrier to entry trades like carpentry, rebar/steel, roofing, and concrete, were brutally hard work for 12 hour days, often 6 days a week. The pay is alright, but only because these guys are working 70-80 hour weeks.
Not to mention that getting into a union is easier said then done and hours can be really inconsistent. You could be working 80 hours a week for three months, then your project ends and you’re out of work for two months until the union finds someplace new to send you.
All told, the trades are tough work, and unless you’re getting compensated appropriately, it’s understandable why people leave the trades.
@@-XtraCredit- You are confusing the motive. They do not work hard because they are afraid of looking weak.
They work hard because they know that behaviour will get them the job, and better pay.
Getting a wagon to move 50lbs means you will be the first laid off, and the last hired.
At work, in construction, nobody cares about image, or looking manly. Profit and efficiency rules all.
@@-XtraCredit- No, you are wrong. It is clear you have never worked in the trades (or at all). I spent many years as a journeyman. So, listen and learn.
The high expectations come from the need to be competitive. If you go easy on yourself, and use a cart for a 50lbs bag, you will not be able to do the job fast enough or cheap enough to compete.
That is not an "opinion".. You do not get to "disagree". It is a fact. You were wrong. Learn and move forward; don't double down.
The game is about making money. If you don't take the edge, someone else will. It does not matter what "should", or "could" be. That is not how the real world works. This is not the "older generations legacy". It is the laws of a free market economy, and reality. You can't blame everything on the boomers.
The world is gonna be hard on you when if) you move out of moms place. But you will learn.
One important thing they forgot to mention is the effect the pandemic had. All of a sudden in 2020, tons of carpenters were out of work. A lot of small contract companies have little or no benefits, and weren't going to pay their employees to stay home. So these guys just found new jobs and never came back.
Unless they are going to retire, they will come back given the pay increases, as it rightly should.
@@thunderb00mAgreed. In addition to that pay increases would also bring in new talent, it is almost like people will work for you if you pay them enough.
@@garethbaus5471 What a concept! :)
Unfortunately a lot of contractors got rich off taxpayer funded PPP loans that were supposed to go to paying employees. Well guess what.
Who's going to pay you as a homeowner?
A lot of American “shortages” could be addressed by better pay.
Careful, that's Democrat talk. 😉
It's not only " Better Pay"
It's also having the love and passion to do a labor intensive job. You have to really love to wake up and do this type of work every single day, in hot or cold weather, working in shitty conditions
That's where I am think the real problem lies. Yes the pay can be improved but if you aren't passionate about this job, your going to hate it regardless of the pay at some point
@@mikes4163 Democrats are not consistent. They want higher pay for people without higher skills, and yet they want as many illegals in the country with no minimum wage (or benefits) to harvest produce to keep food prices lower than if they had to pay minimum wage. And guess how much that avocado for their toast would cost if those field workers were paid a "living wage".
@@JDBass36 Both aspects might also be tied to our economy's larger shift away from loyalty to certain companies or careers mattering.
@@mikes4163 Democrat talk is raise taxes on corporations. I fail to see how taking another 30% from the small business gives them the ability to pay a higher wage to carpenters. Democrat talk is raise the "minimum wage." Remember when they were screaming for $15? Now we're paying $25 and that's not enough, gee almost like inflation will eat any pay raise faster than businesses can keep up.
I was an independent carpenter for almost 30 years. It got harder physically and the business end got way more complicated. I ended up doing custom work for an interior designer who treated me well. Actually we treated each other well. But the big companies? Forget it.
40 years as a carpenter so far. Self employed. Truck, trailer,my tools cost as much as a new truck. Wood/metal framing. Drywall, all phases. Trim,doors, floors, locks, place n finish concrete. WDO repair etc. The more you know the less you get paid, the more you know how to do the more you're called a handy man....then just try to get paid....that's a battle all on it's own...
Could be worse, you could be a mechanic with $50k in tools. 😂
I tried contracting on my own as an Electrician... and found out very quickly... Im just a collection agent with tools...
Umm because everyone wants to pay 18-28 bucks an hour for a literal back breaking job our body's are ruined by our 50s and usually have 15years to go
Oh? So you rather go 70+K into debt with a degree you cannot turn into a job.....and end up working in retail for 40 years, while you complain that you cant "get ahead"?
>literal back breaking job
Tell me you dont know what carpentry is without telling me you dont.
@@WillmobilePlus I'm in carpentry you giant tool steel stud framing and yes it wrecks your body, I don't know why your going on about college debt I'm saying tradesman deserve fair compensation because we build the world.
Outside of cities the pay is more 10-18, $28 and hour is doctor money for rural places.
@@ctg4818 i 100% agree I have to travel 1.5 hrs for work for decent pay nothing local pays well besides local lumber mills, if you consider 25$hr decent anymore
You already get fair compensation otherwise no one would be doing it. No matter how much you pay people everyone still cries that it's not enough.
I'm 51 now, and I decided to leave the construction world a few years ago after 25 years of swinging a hammer. I worked for a great contractor for the last 19 of those years, and was well compensated. But it just hurts too much to do that heavy stuff anymore. I still enjoy the work, just not the wear and tear.
Driving past job sites now, I see way more grey hair than young muscle. I know that I could easily get back on the job at a good wage, but I also know that I would be low man on the totem pole and be required to do the grunt work since I would be the young buck and the new guy. No thanks.
It is very rewarding work, bu tit is also pretty damn hard. I recommend specific trades to young guys getting in, things like HVAC and electrical. As you pointed out here, general carpentry does not get the respect, or pay scale as the others usually do.
I came to say same things. I will never leave construction. I love building to much, but now days I do more teaching and supervising. I currently have a crew of young guys who want to learn and are willing to do the work. We are blessed with a owner who values us, ....
Tough to install hvac or wire up something that nobody wants to frame to begin with. We are all in this together
@@user-tn2os8ts7h Very true. All of this is intertwined, with no part being less important to the whole.
@@billziegler600 (You mean young brown illegal guys)
@@user-tn2os8ts7h💯
The same reason why there is a paramedic shortage too. They need more cash to commit to this as a career. They are paid as much as an Amazon warehouse worker, which is absurd.
That's why you would start there for a couple years then switch to being a nurse. Its a lot of heads-on training fast. My sister took that route, and was working crazy hours. Probably making a fantastic amount of money. Haven't spoken to her in years because of her narcissistic personality. She makes awful decisions too. But makes enough to be fine. She got married in a year and pregnant at the same time as she was a nurse in the military for less than a year, got kicked out out in a way. Cheated on her husband. Divorced. She basically stole the child and ran out of the state. Poor kid probably barely sees her mother because of her ego.
I wasn't a carpenter but I was an electrician. And the environment on a construction site is not conducive to a young person learning. It's a bunch of older guys, giving you shit, acting superior and having outrageous expectations. A more experienced electrician tried to start a fight with me, Told everyone it was me who started it. since I was newer they fired me. So I'm not in construction anymore. I have to assume my story is not Unique.
NOPE It's not unique. Childhood friend/roommate of mine was bullied off an apprenticeship because the entire crew was 25+ years his senior and he was pushing a broom the first month. No learn - just broom and harassment.
That’s pretty common….younger guys get a lot of shit so the older guys turn around and do the same. I did solar panel work and sucked at it but wasn’t paid well either…..stopped doing it altogether because I could make more anywhere else, plus get treated a hell of a lot better!
@@matthewmitchell68 That's exactly why they're hemorrhaging apprentices, then, and you're a clear example
It is a lot like prison, the bigger/stronger you are less people even look at you.
it is very common.. even in truck and coach and i assume across all trades
In 2016 I consulted with a local build assist contractor who pulled permits and supplied subs as needed sort of like U-Build It but a local operation. The only two jobs he said I could not do myself were the carpentry and the painting. The second one caught me by surprise. Why would painting be off limits? I ended up not doing the project. But a couple of years later when a good friend got into the masonry trade he did some work for that contractor I had talked to and it turned out he reaped more profit from carpentry and painting than any other part of the process and that's why he wouldn't allow the owner to do those jobs. He told the owner builders the price for labor on carpentry and painting was extremely high and then paid the lowest wages he could get away with. A lot of pros in those fields but around here at least a lot of dunks, addicts and unstable personalities. Get a guy out of drug money and he'll show up for two weeks at $15 bucks an hour. Whether with my father or while in college I've done a little bit of every job in home construction even though I do something else for a living. It's hard work and I respect all the true pro's in the industry but the industry also has too many slackers, thieves and amateurs with licenses. Oh, make no mistake, that last group has a lot of experience but they still provide amateur level work while demanding professional level pay because they have the license. Commensurate pay and professional respect would go a long way towards decreasing the labor shortage. But being a reliable and trustworthy pro who delivers pro level results for the money asked would help as well. My rule is if I can do the job better than you can then why would I pay you? What I can do I do well but a pro should equal or exceed my capabilities.
In the medical field I've experienced companies tell me they had to cut pay because of impending medicare or insure cuts. So they made the cuts and then the commensurate medicare or insurance reimbursement cuts never happened or were less than anticipated. DId we get our pay restored? Of course not. In times where our offices were booming and reimbursements were up did we see a pay increase? Of course not. Companies once had the advantage of little publicly available information about changes in any industry no matter what that might be. But with the maturation of the internet and the easy availability of information regarding industry reality versus company lies employees often know very well that they are being used while the powers that be do no more work but make a lot more money.
LOTS of insights on two industries. You should write a book!
There are a lot of criminals that can't work any where else. High school dropouts are a pretty good portion of the population. Those are the grumpy people that everyone talks about.
One thing I think you're missing is the utter disrespect to younger people. And I don't mean that as a "Waaaa, I'm Gen Z and people are mean to me!" way. I mean I've watched this from the sidelines as the decades have rolled on. The previous as generation aged out 20-30 years ago and the newer old generation is just a bunch of ***holes. Not all of them. Just a lot of them. They got the giving each other crap banter thing down, which is fine. That has existed for as long as physical labor has been here, the beginning of time. No problem with it. It's just not tempered by the part where they actually care about teaching. I watched it devolve from the old guys yelling at young guys and in the process giving an explanation of what they did wrong, to just yelling. Sure. Eventually there's an explanation, but the two are divorced. Boss goes off angry, "Not dealing with this right now.", then eventually comes back after they've cooled down. It's just not the same. Now, I understand the environment isn't like it was. There's more stress, time crunches, and pressure from above to get things done on a tight deadline to be able to make payroll on crap paying projects. But they cannot do that and expect people to stay. They wouldn't have stayed if the people who taught them did that. It screams they are not valued, not worth the time to teach, and the only reason they are coming back to teach is because they need a body doing the job. While the older generation that's gone now was on average more, "You messed up but we'll fix this, here's how.", just with considerably more cussing. The stereotype of the grandfatherly carpenter teaching the young kid just does not exist in most of the industry anymore. Today's generation isn't being taught a breadth of skills. They are taught what needs be for this job site. Which means some massive holes and blind spots, which lead to mistakes, which causes the above, and people just leave.
In another 20-30 years there are going to be virtually no true master carpenters left. We'll have deck builders, framers, fencer builders, and blah blah blah blah blah. But very very few who can pickup any job and just do it at a high level. Because the construction company they worked for only did framing, and the deck builder was a seperate crew that only did decks, and yada yada yada. There'll be some crossover, but the results aren't going to be pretty. We already see it happening now in results when we look. I'm not a carpenter, never been a carpenter, and I'm getting to the point that I will never hire one. I have seen too many bad results from people I know have years of experience. Just not well rounded experience. I cannot trust them to do quality work because their education in carpentry was spotty at best.
@@halycon404 so you finished staying you won't hire a carpenter. So who is going to nail the lumber together?
The last true Cheddar video.
Skilled tradespeople are far more important than stock traders, bankers, lawyers etc. But are universally paid less.
...No, those people are important TOO.
They are paid more because their skills are harder to educate for; demand exceeds supply.
There is no need to insult and bring down white collar workers to boost blue collar ones.
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 In my mind, "white collar" is too broad a term. I would say all value derives from farming and mining. That's where the stuff is. "Blue collar" workers add to that value by adding availability for tasks. There is some essential complexity in the world, which tends the be the domain of engineers and managers, where value is added by control. Then there is invented complexity, where the work is imposed by an authority, but no value is created. There live the bankers, traders, and lawyers.
Bankers and lawyers create value to our civilization too, even if less visibly, @@bytesandbikes.
You can't eat or drink money or legal documents but you do need them to keep everything running smoothly.
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 I don't think bankers make money, or lawyers create documents of any specific value. What they do is deliberately deny access to those outside their cliques.
@@bytesandbikes when a lady claims you raped her and a lawyer finds evidence and saves you then you might reconsider your opinion on them.
I left construction because low pay, no benefits, don't get paid for drive time, hours are not set, you have to come in to find out if your able to work that day, you finish early you don't get paid for the whole day but the company keeps the extra money. Plus I had to supply my own tools and vehicle. I now make 50% more in a factory to a 1/4 of the effort.
The person who builds shelter is the second most important person in society. Right after the food provider. Our priorities are all out of whack.
The biggest problem I had with working in the trades was getting sent home the minute you weren't absolutely necessary and trying to survive on anywhere from 20 to 50 hours a week depending on the needs of the company. The pressure to ignore safety issues, rush through substandard work then take the blame for mistakes, plus the expectation to provide your own tools and truck, turned $20 an hour into more like minimum wage in reality, but I couldn't even rely on getting enough hours to pay bills and rent during bad weather or work shortages.
I thought employers ignoring safety precautions are purely Eastern European thing...
I'm a welder and god knows how many times I was told to work with grinder and welding out in a rain, f those bastards, who all drive newest mercedes benz while we welders and other skilled tradesmen spend HALF a salary for renting tiny studio apartment, damn I even worked on a car factory GAZ (lived my whole life right next to it), chassis welding, made trucks, which I could never afford.
I always forget my friend works as a debt collector in an office and earns 1.2 of what I do, despite him sitting in comfortable heated office wearing clean clothes and breathing NOT toxic vapors filled air, not burning his eyes with all those occasional welding sparks.
In Russia we too had widespread media and general public backed narrative like "SKILLED LABOUR SHORTAGE, BECOME WELDER/carpenter/electrician WELL PAID"
Yet all people who bought this do regret.
My grandfather was a welder in Soviet Union. His salary was enough to provide for himself, my grandmother, their two children and visit Moscow every weekend. Also then welders worked in pairs with general metalworkers, apprentice like guys, who would hold a metal for you, grind it, haul it etc. Now, you do everything by yourself. You unload metal, you grind it, you bend metal sheets, you cut pipes, you hold them for yourself, you paint them, you load finished products in trucks, yet you can barely sustain yourself with what you earn. But the company has 4 engineers with golden watches sitting at computers, doing nothing, and 4 accountants, while 4 guys (who are hired as welders) do all the job from cement mixing and pouring to finishing plaster and electrical matters.
And they have audacity to say young people don't want to marry and have children.
Imagine marrying, when a wedding will cost you 20 months worth of income, not including rings, honeymoon etc. And children are unaffordable by any means. No adequate government support, nothing.
Q: Why America Is Running Out Of Carpenters
A: They're not being paid enough or given good working conditions. The wealth they generate is going to the people above them. Just like in most industries.
Just compare the pay and service to society of a DEI HR employee and a experienced Carpenter and you will see exactly how far our society has gone wrong.
I’m training to be a carpenter right now and I love it however the pay is a lot less enticing than I thought it would be.
How much an hour would that be in your state,I am kindly asking because I am a carpenter
@@martinchitembo1883 SW Washington Journeyman Carpenters make about $43 an hour. Electricians and plumbers make over $50.
@@FonandSlimGamingyoutubechannel so backwards isn’t it. They need us to know all there trades plus build them a structure to work in. Love it
One issue with carpentry wages is that the field is wide open. Anyone can walk off the street and pick up a hammer. So they will start you off at some abysmal wage usually because they don't know if you're an actual skilled worker or just a felon addict who can't find other work. Actual merit varies widely. So it's up to you to not just show up and collect a check, you need to prove that you're a skilled and reliable worker and then you should ask for a BIG raise. And if they don't give you a big raise, you can start your own business or switch employers because there's so much demand.
If you like being a carpenter, that's the first step bc starting out of you'll get the short end of the stick. But don't fret, bc once you perfect your skills, you'll get paid way more. efficiency, quality of work, and people skills are what contractors are looking for.
2 solutions to the problem:
-1: have trade schools combined with practical education 50% School, 50% real life work in that way the future carpenter gets paid during the education years. Called Duales System in Germany
-2: maybe start building houses in a modern way that does not require so much manual labour on the construction side. Use more modern material instead of putting a house together from a stack of 2x4 on side. Pre manufacture the walls indoors, ship them and stick it together. As a result use more modern tools and offer better working conditions and less man power needed. A carpenter that can move parts with a lift can work more year injury free and can stay in the job till the real retirement age of 60+
The old school experienced carpenters have enough to do to fix all the existing houses.
Manufactured homes have a stigma attached no matter the results. Nobody likes them and only get them if that's all they can afford or get.
@@oldtwinsna8347 I'm not talking about fully assembled or fully identical homes. I'm talking of pre fabricated individual walls. Today every house has a construction plan with all the detailed measurements. I suggest it would be more efficient and labor friendly to manufacture the individual walls indoors and ship them to the construction side. In that way no one has to build walls from a big pile of 2x4 outdoors no matter what the weather conditions are. Maybe then a carpenter can and wants to work beyond the age of 50-55.
@@stephan_1507 Most large scale projects such as apartment buildings pre fabricate the walls off site, and have been that way for many years. The buildings are constructed quickly but the work is still physically demanding, especially on the roof. The wall panels are delivered by truck and assembled with cranes. The majority of the home builders though are very small companies, and will still build the walls on site. Almost all homes built in the U.S both large and small order the roof trusses from a truss plant and set them with cranes.
A big problem I see with older men who complain about worn out bodies, is that their food diet was not very good. Too many sugary energy drinks, and processed fast food have wrecked the health of nearly all Americans. Construction workers get their exercise, and that should be far more beneficial going into old age than living a sedentary life style at a desk job.
This is my story. Come to USA in 97. from former Yugoslavia at age 33. I knew I'm good at math and did test and was allowed in EE program. Finish entire math with grade A and electrical physics too. However, I was too old and at age 36 gave up on that and started work as a carpenter in 2002 or so. Good at math should give me some advantages. As soon as I started and two years after I was doing the most complicated roof framings at high end homes. Bogh tools and pickup and start like self-employed 2004 I was like self-employed 25$/hour. Today I'm at 45$/hour. And I'm broken, I think it is definition. I have money to pay for food and rent and for small car and my pickup for work and it is all. Never had money to start family and never had money to start flip houses. Today I'm 3 month short of 60. Was in same apartment for 21 years and they kick me out when I asked if they can paint it after 21 years. Now live in a duplex that my biggest customer offer me for a while. I do all that exist in carpentry, handrailing, crown molding at cathedral ceiling, roofs with irregular hips, stairs frame and trim. Only good that I did is I didn't stay working for companies because would be disabled now how much they used me. Would drive across city and do framing of roofs 14/12 for months. Or would carry 3/4 plywood for weeks. I would do better if would go for trucker, would have a small house. If someone need I will connect with my cl page so you can see my handy work. Yeah get tons of glory but like everyone else I'm not into glory I'm into green. My friend said to me recently "Ok you tried it for say 3-4 years and see there is not money for you but you needed 20 years to figure it out?".
im gonnna make a guess before i get passed the 50 second mark and say back breaking labour. incredibly long hours, seasonal work, artificially low wages due to lack of apprentice retention/development.. and wages that have been stagnent since the 70's
I count my blessings every day that I work for a good general contractor. 401k, full medical, dental, vision, and I've gotten $10/hour in raises in 2 years. Started at $25/hour and got bumped basically $5/year. The old timers we do have are friendly and try their best to teach you what they know. Unfortunately this is NOT the norm in the industry. I live in Seattle which is very progressive and our owners are well aware of the labor shortage and do everything possible to keep their crew around. It's almost triple in size and very few people opt to leave the company.
Im in seattle too. Union form carpenter mostly on high rises 52$ is our journeyman wage. Reading these comments it just sounds like they live in the middle of nowhere and non union.
Another reason why trades in general are dying off in the United States is that they cost almost as much to train in as going to college. So the individuals who would have gone into these Blue collar jobs can't afford it. I was going to go to school to be an electrician at a local trades college here in Jacksonville a couple of years ago and the difference between trades training and associates degree was like $3,000
This video failed to mention that during the mid 1970s, the people at the top who run the this miserable world decided to jettison labor unions. This resulted in tremendous abuse of everyone in the construction industry: contractors, skilled tradesmen, apprentices, and laborers... Stealing their tools while their backs are turned is a serios problem. And making excuses to refuse to pay them the last few hundred dollars of what they are owed after the work is completed is a problem for everyone. After a few times of that, they quit, and find another line of work.
On top of all that, the driving expenses are astronomical. They have to drive to several different stores to find a tool. Later when it is stolen, they have to repeat all the driving. They have to do a lot of driving to buy the materials, and a lot to pull building permits. It isn't worth it.
@@francismarion6400they still make $12 an hour here
@@francismarion6400 There is no way in the world that carpenters could possibly make $100,000/year, when everyone gets several bids, and they always take only the lowest bids every time, and the others have gotten nothing for their time working up the bids?
And after that, the theft of their tools is unbelievable, and the driving expenses are astronomical.
Also: Union carpenters aren't paid $100,000/year. So why would anyone want to pay non-union carpenters greater than union scale? It doesn't make sense.
@@Dj.MODÆO $12/hour isn't enough to be able to pay rent anywhere!
Back in the 50s and 60as, a man could support his home, own a house, a couple of kids and a stay at home wife, and 2 cars off of a carpenters pay. The pay never rose after that, but the price of living did.
Val, I think this is true of most occupations. We live under a tremendous tax burden that was not present in the 50's and 60's. It seems like we make less. The truth is that local, state, and federal governments are choking us all to death.
It wasn't normal to own 2 cars in the 50s and 60s. The homes were also much smaller, didn't have garages, and children shared bedrooms.
My experience as carpenter is you get paid less, take on more responsibility and have more personal costs than any other trade. We have to facilitate the work of all other trades within the structure, buy our own tools and use our own vehicle.
Almost everyone could frame a wall. Few of us are foolish enough to make it our our career.
No shortage of people who want to build. A shortage of financial compensation to keep people around.
I was a framing carpenter for about a year and half. I was making $20/hr when I left and could barely keep my head above water. I got another job and got an immediate $5/hr raise.
Here in Australia all trades are regulated, registered, licensed and insured which makes trades consistent and desirable for young people finishing school.
has this channel stopped making videos? I loved what you've done in the past and am awaiting more! Please let your adoring fans know!!!
From what I can see, there were major disputes between managers at Cheddar, which is currently causing this channel to have no new videos or updates.
@@sunshineimperials1600 Thanks for the input. Trying to decide if to keep subscription...
I'm a carpenter. Guy I work for has no problem paying plumbers, electricians, etc 75-150 an hour but really complained cause I wanted 45 an hour and im his best carpenter. Kinda planning on getting a different job once the economy picks up. I love carpentry and have done it for 10 years but my body is starting to complain so if it doesn't start paying better I'm gonna have to find something else.
I started out in a trade craft at 12$ an hour working 5 states away from home for 8months working 6 12s, everyone can say boohoo go to college boohoo get a better job but someone needs to build roads someone needs to build bridges build hospitals build homes and grocery stores everything and people should be compensated fairly especially with rising costs in America , terrible homes where I live in Washington start 250-300grand and the average sale price of vehicles in America today is 48,000
I mean, even before the pandemic, the only people I knew in carpentry were people with major felonies (or dishonorably discharged from the military) or were in the US illegally. That "average" seems on the high to what people on average are even paid in the industry. It's also physically demanding...61 is on the high end for the very skilled people left.
Noticed this too, never met any tradesman that makes anywhere close to the 70k a year those graphs were showing.
@@ctg4818 it varies alot by region. In a big northern city 70k after taxes is average with a proper trade and licence.
Way to stereotype millions of hard workers. I'm a commercial project manager and we verify all workers credentials (we get huge fines if they are illegal). The US issues millions of visa's, plus many relocate here permanently after their visa if no problems (meaning there's prolly 10 million + "illegals" that are just as much of a citizen as you are. Also very few have felonies, those people generally end up in landscaping, trash workers, etc not the skilled trades.
@@Syn410 bullshit dude. This is a lie. They work residential trades and for all kinds of smaller companies. So.e have visas, some were born here but hell yes they are doing construction
@@MrKongatthegates Of course some are, but he said the only people doing it are illegals. That's false, our average sites have between 300-500 legal workers, way more than even a large scale residential complex.
The thing most people don't realize is labor is a commodity. Do I think there is a shortage no. There is a shortage of people willing to do it for pennies. I noticed the mean electricians income is 59k. Must have excluded the IBEW. 125k a year working just 40 hours a week. Every single year we have to turn applicants away and all of our work is manned. If you can't get employees try becoming a signatory at your local union hall. Then your work will be done right the first time, on time, and on budget.
I’m a self employed carpenter in Dallas Texas. I make $1,000 per day on average. Some jobs I make $2,000 a day. I worked for $18 an hour for 6 months, quit and went out on my own. Can confirm a shortage. Can confirm low wages for working for others. But man, go out on your own, and the money is there, and there is more work to be had than you can imagine!
I do not know how you made 100$/hour. I'm at 45$/hour like self employed.
@@zell863 you need to increase your prices man!
it takes a 5 year apprenticeship(2,000 classroom hrs.) to be a union carpenter(that's a NO BS qualified Journeyman)another 5 to master the Skills and Knowledge involved. Numerous continuing education courses to stay abreast of new materials equipment and tech(yes technical things you are clueless about)all the skilled trades are going through this extinction episode because REAL skilled tradesman would rather their sons and daughters do ANYTHING else than what they have spent a life mastering to provide a life for their families.
The reward the general public gives them for providing modern climate controlled living and working environments is to label them dumb manual laborers(untouchables).
Management(educated five year different schools) is constantly trying to decrease their wages, benefits and provide them with third world working conditions.
Give them some respect, quit treating them like third class citizens. Their careers are short that is only one(generally overlooked) reason they are compensated with high wages, by the time they've mastered their jobs their bodies are physically wrecked. Game over, way before 65 for majority of them.
I've been a carpenter for 32 years. Noone wants to pay anything, I've been in the same 20ish dollars an hour for nearly 20 years. Immigration is a major part of it. Licensing would change all of that. But no one is capable of making any company pay us. That is why there will no longer be any American carpenters whatsoever, in another 10 years.
I guess i am one of the lucky ones, I am an electrician, and during my apprenticing year, I was treated very well by my senior sparkies, they treated me with respect and taught me with patience, sure there are some bad ones, but never something that made me want to quit, now I am teaching a young guy in his early 20s about highrise fire alarm. honestly, our relationship is very friendly, construction really is awesome (for me).
you're missing an other massive reason. The current hiring practices push entry level trades people away. I have been hunting for a trade job for a second now, but no one wants to hire someone with less then 4 years experience for entry level pay. We've turned the trades over to hiring by college elites who've never worked our jobs or know the first thing that goes into changing a tire or squaring up lumber or metal. When I'm getting told I need 2 years experience to be a lube tech there's an issue.
The problem is that major home builders have simplified the trade enough that relatively unskilled people can put a house together - pre-built walls, only 5 models in a 200 house neighborhood, very little custom trim, etc. I came up working for a custom builder, it’s a shame what construction has turned into. The big nationwide companies set it up where subs do all of the hard work, usually with semi-legal Spanish guys (NOT hating on the Spanish guys, they work like dogs) that barely make any money and just get taught to shoot nails and listen to jefe, jefe answers to a college dude with a project management degree that’s never swung a hammer - but is in charge of the quality of something he doesn’t even understand. There are still people building good houses, but they’re old and don’t have any young people to replace them - because the young people can make better money working at five guys. The only carpenter license in existence is through unions, which at the end of the day is all commercial work and not real carpenter work - although you can actually make a decent living in that scenario. I don’t think there’s a way to reverse this, unfortunately. Demand is so high for new houses, the only way the supply side can keep up is with the garbage they’re already producing. If a master license existed for carpentry I would’ve gotten it, but it doesn’t exist because at this point it doesn’t need to.
There's another video by Business Insider that features big farmers saying "I can't find enough laborers (who want to work for peanuts below the min wage), the government should ship in more immigrants. Otherwise I'm just going to end up dumping good food." The management class would rather dump valuable goods and miss out on so much money, just because they refuse to raise the pay to the people who make that profit possible.
Pay and treat carpenters better and there will be more carpenters. Working people have learned to walk away from bad jobs. I quit after the first day of an office gig because it became evident the boss wasn't going to abide by basic labor laws, allow reasonable breaks, ie. the bare minimum. Pay and treat your employees well and they'll be loyal and hardworking. Treat them like they're totally replaceable and the bosses will say to themselves and anyone in media who will listen, "We can't find workers. Government help us. No one wants to work these days!" They want to pay less and have fewer breaks than the bare minimum, but they expect us to give our best work during the hours.
It's almost like a system where the guy on top gets everything possible and the workers are given as little as possible, over time, is an unsustainable, inhumane, unjust system. We will not be exploited or kept in poverty by their choice. We will unionize or walk away.
I’ve been a commercial union carpenter going on 9 years now. We are in fact one of the lowest paid trades on the job. Pension is okay at best. I am site superintendent now and really don’t make a significant amount more than the journeymen trades on the site. However, I still make enough for my wife to stay home with the kids. We don’t overspend and have no debt but our house.
I was a carpenter for 17 years, after 2010, all work dried up. I have moved on, and changed profession. I would go back if the pay and more important job security was better. But that is unlikely to happen
My Dad is 62 master carpenter and has 4 sons. All 4 of us tried it and we all hated it because it's back breakibg work with little pay. Why work harder for less money like my dad did? I don't want to 2 knees surgeries when my job doesn't offer benefits like he did. Why would we work in an industry where people don't wanna pay?
Being a cut man on a framing crew was the greatest honor as a young boy. I did honorable work that could not be farmed overseas. I worked so hard that I could cut for 2 master framers. But when I was asked to move up to be a master framer, I just wasn't fast enough. The master framer just has a finer understanding of geometry. So my boss referred me to a builder to become a superintendent with words like "Hire him as a super before he kills us all." I love this industry.
Residential is its own animal, but there’s enough money in commercial and industrial sectors for unions to thrive. It’s heartbreaking that more people don’t fight for this in their own states. I’m a union worker from Minnesota and I make $42.56/hour as a LABORER, and that’s just what’s on the paycheck not including benefits.
Of course, I’ve seen the writing on the wall; I’m currently switching to the Pipefitters at 30 years old, so that I can fall back on HVAC servicing when my body starts to break down. I’ll get a bit of a pay raise with the fitters but I honestly don’t think about the money as much anymore. I don’t have to being in a strong union state, and because I don’t have to worry about money I can really think about and be excited for my future.
I am going to miss my current trade though. It keeps me in good shape and I love the physical aspects of it.
This type of thing right here, is exactly why everyone should educate themselves with the Japanese concept of Ikigai. It is the combination of four principles: what you like to do, what you can make money from, what you're good at, and what the world needs.
I'm 21 and just from my personal experience the skirled trades management want to complain that my generation doesn't want to work for them and then turn around and require at least 1 to 2 years of experience as an apprentice already to become an apprentice with them at low starting pay. Also I currently work in manufacturing set up and make more than I would if I did construction in my area however retail jobs are only a few dollars less an hour who in there right mind will work any of these jobs if working in an airconditioned store pays the same or more and often has better 401k and insurance
Thanks for the comments
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I’m a high demand carpenter with a great reputation in my area. Due to high demand and low supply of good, experienced carpenters, I’ve been able to raise my price by 50% in the past 3 years. People who aren’t willing to pay my price end up regretting it because of the quality of work and of their work ethic. Eventually if you want good carpenters with good work ethic, you’ll have to pay good responsible people enough to be worth being a carpenter. If you keep paying carpenters low wages, you’ll only get people choosing the trade who aren’t responsible enough to make it in other professions and people will regret hiring them.
Same in the flooring industry. I was getting $2 a square foot for wood or LVT installation pre pandemic. I get $3 now without issue. Too many older guys are retiring and dying, with very few people to replace them.
I remember back in high school in the early 00's my county had gotten rid of all vocational classes. Replaced them with AP and "dual enrollment" classes cause vocational ed was for the "dumb kids".
There's a massive shortage of trades people now cause 25+ years ago we decided it wasn't worth training people and presented it as low paying, unrespectable work.
Critique here: Cheddar usually does great background on their videos, but I feel like this one was lacking. What do carpenters do? I know they build furniture, but do they lay drywall? I don’t know. I feel like a job description should have been included in this video.
Carpentry doesnt really refer to building furniture. Thats more of a woodworker. A carpenter is generally a home builder. Its kind of a jack of all trades role. You need to know how to frame, how to do some concrete, and have a basic knowledge of how all the systems of a house play in to one another to be a solid carpenter. Its a ton of knowledge that takes years to build by being in the field and interacting with different building technologies that perform differently.
You couldn’t figure any of that out from visual clues?
I tried working as a carpenter 3 times. Each time I've been scammed. 1 boss advertised higher pay than he actually paid me. 2 customer refused to pay. 3 boss decided that rather than pay me he up and left for Mexico never to be seen or heard from again.
Three different times, 3 different companies. I'll stick to factory work.
Every worker wants to be paid more; every employer does not want to have to pay more. Jobs are getting busier and therefore more difficult, and people just want to be compensated for the extra load that they have to bear. That is what higher wages is supposed to cover. If you aren't going to get paid what you believe you are owed, why take on that particular job? So you hunt for something else, damaging the piece of the work force that everyone else thought was secure because they did not know any of the details/problems going on..
We can't have the world force get damaged, I think that was the plot of Final Fantasy 7...
I have 4 days left in my carpentry career. I’m excited to move on and actually be able to afford a house.
Competent carpenters just simply don’t get paid what they merit. They are responsible for building everything and refinishing after the other tradesman that come in to make well over what they make in a fraction of the time
The only thing I can think of as far as the certification problem is maybe standardization. Plumbers' and electricians' work is powered by the city's public works. And without a natural disaster or accident, the woodwork of a house should be relatively intact after construction. Less maintenance is needed. Carpenters would be called for remodeling or building an addition but after the construction of a building, they're kind of done.
I work in a warehouse and am on the lower end of the totem pole and I still make double what a carpenter makes in my state. Lol F that
I’m a carpenter and I love it. Since I was a little kid I wanted to build buildings. For me I
Love it so much I couldn’t ever quit. It’s hard work but when you’re doing what you’re born to do it’s not so bad. I stopped working for other people at 22 for these reasons in the video. Bidding my own jobs and doing my own thing helps me with my second passion which is eating and paying the bills.
So in short... there is not a shortage of carpenters. People are just unwilling to do backbreaking labor for pennies on the dollar
America, has a pay problem is more like it. I recently went back to work as a carpenter and I'm in my late 50's.
I love the trade, but the pay is pathetic. It's always been lacking, but it's even worse these days.
I work for a company that remodels bathrooms for handicap accessibility as well as build wheelchair ramps. The company only gives us three days to do a total remodel. I've argued that racing through the job is sacrificing quality. But it falls on deaf ears because it's all paid for through the government. A remodel costs between 12,000 to 20,000 dollars. The company is making millions a month while those of us breaking our backs allowing for their comfortable lives get crumbs off the table.
I'm already looking at getting back out.
Companies and corporations always say they'd have to close if they have to actually pay people for what they do. We all know that's BS. Instead they raise the prices and keep getting fatter and fatter.
If you want to work yourself into an early grave leaving your wife broke and in debt then work in the trades. It's guaranteed!
It's good to know companies are boohooing about how, "Nobody wants to work." It just means people are finally waking up. To the companies and corporations I say, "Pay up or go out of business. Good riddance. The American worker has made you wealthy and your thankless for the gift of craftsmanship."
For anyone considering the trades? Don't do it! You can make just as much money doing many other occupations, and you'll be healthier and happier for it.
That pretty cool tho,where are you from?I’m new on TH-cam and I’m a kind of person that love to chat and know people that got skills like yours and i don’t know if you want to make friends I just want to know more bout your profession tho 😊
As an ex-carpenter, when you take into consideration the time required to journey out compared to your pay scale your always going to be better off financially getting an associate degree at a local community college for any degree.
Also, as time goes on and we have more educated people in our society compared to uneducated, people begin to understand there’s easier and more comfortable ways to make more money.
Overall, too much work for too little pay.
I keep reading these stories here in the comment section. Why on EARTH would OLDER carpenters EVER EVER EVER bully YOUNGER carpenters or in ANY way make the job more stressful or hard than it already is? Why wouldn't they want somebody YOUNGER to TAKE OVER this hard job for them? Why wouldn't they be DESPERATE to PASS ON the knowledge?
You mentioned North Carolina in your video.
I am 74 years old and a member of the United brotherhood of carpenters.
I moved to North Carolina from Washington state about a year ago. I haven’t been called to work by the hall yet. Not even once. Yes, I still work mostly on Millwork installation.
Here is what I found out about NC
It has been a right to work state since 1947
Currently there are less than 500 union carpenters in the whole state.
Union scale here is almost half what it is in Washington, only about $28/hr +benefits.
Even in WA very few carpenters work 40 hrs a week 52 weeks a year.
I have or recently had certifications for CPR, OSHA 30, welding, rigging, solid surface, all terrain and industrial fork lift, scissor and boom lift, fall protection, ICRA (required to work in hospitals), leadership, foreman, total station, and many other certifications and training over the years.
I took wood-shop classes in high school. Big deal, I didn’t know shit about being a carpenter until my apprenticeship.
Before unions there were guilds, all the way back to ancient times. That is where tradesmen got their training, by working in apprenticeships. Unions continued that tradition.
By killing the unions you kill that system.
Sure you can get training and certification here and there but it is expensive
I don’t know how local contractors find skilled, trained workers around here.
They have shot themselves in the foot.
For example,
On the outskirts of Roxboro there is a small light commercial building in progress, I noticed the rough framing was completed about a year ago December, when I first moved here. It is still not complete. IMO the entire building should have been completed in 4 or 5 months max. I suspect they have a hard time finding tradesmen.
Think of the interest paid on the construction loan!
Even the non-union tradesmen are so rare that they are getting wages as high or higher than union scale 😂
Contractors would be better off if the unions were still in abundance. Not
They would be able to man (or woman) a job with skilled and experienced workers overnight with just one phone call.
It would give them flexibility in the number of employees they need on all their job sites.
Running out of carpenters? I just watched a house be built down the street from us and no one on the carpenter crew spoke a bit of English. They were excellent carpenters, a bit unconventional but quick, efficient with the lumber and accurate with getting the two stories up, plumb, level and square. If you can't grow them from the supply of kids growing up here, just across the border there is an ample supply. Some of this is our antiquated immigration policies as the metrics just don't add up when towns and cities are drying up in some places due to the lack of economic opportunities while other places are overheated by inflationary pressures. Jobs create more economic development and vice versa in a "virtuous cycle". Looking at you, Washington...
Thanks for the comments
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I’ve been a carpenter since 18 now 66. Still enjoying the work, but the body is hurting daily. It’s nearly impossible to get help! I’ve always paid help fairly. At least I thought I was. It’s not just physical work, you better be thinking 10 steps ahead of yourself if you don’t want do overs!
Insurance is just so expensive that people will take jobs that pay less that offer insurance. Plus if they're 1099 having to pay taxes in April is such a kick in the ass.
The only way to make any real money as a carpenter is to be a union carpenter in a city. Here in Chicago you can make around $50/hr as a union carpenter. However, it’s extremely difficult to get into the carpenters union here. Most people have to wait a couple years at least. It’s a real in-demand position when in terms of union. However, you can work non-union no problem and find a job real easy. But you’ll cap out at like $30/hr. Same for all the other labor unions here. I’ve been trying to get into the electricians union here for a couple years no luck. There’s 600 applicants every year and only about 100 get in. I could get a non-union electrical job that pays $18 with no promise of a raise. But I get into the union and guaranteed to make $50 in 5 years
Can confirm. I'm a union carpenter in Chicago. For commercial work you make over $50 an hour as a journeyman, and all union carpenters, be they apprentice or journeyman get the same hourly fringe benefit package that is around $35 an hour. Those benefits include healthcare, annuity, pension union dues, and a few other smaller benefits. Residential carpenters make a little over $40 an hour, but get the same benefit package. That pay and benefits make us a bit more resilient to economic fluctuations. There's a 4 year on the job apprentice program with pay that increases each year until journeyman. Only about 1 in 5 people make it through the apprentice program.
The unions also offer skill advancement classes free of charge to expand your skills. I think it's only New York, L.A, and Hawaii surpringly that have comparable pay. All in all, it's a pretty good deal. Don't stop trying to get in, especially for the electricians. It's not easy. For the pay, they really expect you to earn it, and we can always use more guys in the trades.
I have been in the carpentry field since 1978 now 62. Had some rough years when I was younger but always loved the job. Obtained my class A contractor license in 1992.but keep my tools on. Built up a good reputation in a coastal VA. Oceanfront town but always seemed to barely make it. Two years ago raised my rates significantly. Busy as I can be. But at 62 my body is worn out. If you enjoy the trade stick with it and look earn as much as you can. It's been a good tough career but I didn't have to sit behind a desk.
Now 62 years old is not old anymore
The United States as a whole pushed young men away from being tradesmen for roughly 40 years and now wonder why there are massive shortages of them. We have been training boys to yell at a TV for the sports ball, telling them it is too dangerous to have a pocket knife, telling them that the only thing that matters is their grades so they can sit at a desk for 45 years, maybe instead you should buy them a wood lathe and show them that making things with your own hands is pretty damn cool. A carpenter might not make huge money, my dad never did as a self employed contractor, but as a kid we lived in a brand new house that he built, we renovated a bunch of rentals, and the house my parents bought later on we refinished top to bottom. When you don't need to hire people and you know where to source material on the cheap it is amazing what you can afford to own. I became a tradesman, a diesel technician, greatest choice I ever made. I can tell you that being allowed to operate wood lathes, table saws, band saws etc. at the age of 10, being given old junk lawn mowers to fix, and working with my dad on houses has really given me a lot of advantages in adulthood. I don't hire people. I don't need to call someone to replace a door, to fix an oven or refrigerator, to renovate a bathroom, or to replace the engine in my truck. The value of a man can be measured by what it is he is capable of doing, the more knowledgeable and skilled you are the more your family will benefit from you. That is the message we should be teaching young men.
I make $60k as a carpenter with 10 years experience.
A coworker of mine just had his hand crushed by a 1000 lb oak beam. About an hour ago.
He makes about $35k. Should he have been doing a job that can remove his hands for less money than it takes to rent an apartment?
That's why there's hardly anyone my age doing this.
Wow i was thinking of getting into the trade.
The high school I went to in Georgia has had an excellent set of trades classes for decades. We weren't a very large school, but we still managed to get a couple hundred kids through those classes and out the other side with great trade skills and a solid knowledge base. But then those kids graduate, and they're only offered $8 hourly with no benefits and are expected to find somewhere to live on that (since for some reason alot of parents around here believe that turning 18 means you're magically ready to go off on your own so you get the boot.) They then dump on everything they learned about trade work in school to take a position at a company that pays more. For us in GA, this also helps feed the pipeline of young workers out of rural areas to population centers, where the money is. So you end up with the Atlanta area thriving and growing while everywhere else dries up and dramatically increases in age.
You think we have a carpenter problem now? We’ve only just begun…
Population is leveling / declining in a lot of places so the demand for new homes is dropping and so too should the demand for carpenters. Especially since no-one under age 40 can even afford the land to build on anyway.
My father runs a carpentry business. He makes amazing money and pays his employee great. I obviously understand some bosses are really shitty, but my dad pays and treats his great. If you have the skill, seriously consider starting your own business.
I love being a carpenter. And I'm making bank. I name my price and people pay it, because like this video says, there is a shortage of people with knowledge and experience.
I'm a former Journeyman Carpenter, but injured my back and went to Architecture school at my University. At times I wish I had never injured my back as I'd probably be making more money as a private contractor than as an Architect. No joke.
I used to be a carpenter I even struggled through the 2008 housing crisis by specializing as a maintenance contractor repairing apartment complexes and condos for property owners. I left because the work dried up and the pay was terrible.
While struggle along as a construction maintenance making an average hourly rate of 10 to $11 an hour when I can make 1750 an hour for the equivalent amount of work at Amazon.
in Portland Taco bell and mcdonalds pay 18 and cant get nobody
Because it’s back breaking work and in Canada they don’t get paid that much. Out of all the trades it’s the lowest paid.
I was a carpenter for most of my working carrier. At 66, I am no longer working, except for personal and family stuff. I'm currently building new kitchen cabinets for our own kitchen. But I digress. I haven't worked as a carpenter for a few years, not due to early retirement, but because a lifetime of hard work has taken a toll on my body and I simply can no longer work hard all day. Regarding pay, it was never good. I've worked for myself and for others. I remember applying for a job back in 1990 or so, while living in Jackson, Wyoming. Offered starting pay was less than $10/hour and I owned all my tools and a truck! I'd hate to calculate my hourly wage when I was self-employed. Many, many hours were spent finding jobs, buying material, working late, etc, that were never figured into the cost of a project. Carpentry is a great carrier, don't get me wrong. It's satisfying work.
If you aren't doing upscale work it's very hard to make a living and even then it's touch and go. Yes, the body takes a beating.
Hey, $10 was a lot back then when you could buy a house for $20k.
@@gorkyd7912 Not in Jackson Hole you couldn't. That wasn't even a down payment!
@@w9jim Yeah, happens to be one of the richest places in the nation. But Rawlins is a deserted wasteland where property is still cheap so I guess everyone commutes.
Being a carpenter will leave you broke and homeless i did it for over 5 years and never made over $15 k a year I’ve spent the last 10 years trying to get over those 5 years of hell
A niece visited from Australia, where they can quit school after tenth grade but the either have to work or apprentice and train in a trade. This niece announced she was going to become a boilermaker. Having run steam power plants I know a bit about boilers, boilermakers and what they do. When I asked why, she said they make $270,000 a year.
This is how they are picking trades. It's the same in the US schools. They look at a graph of jobs and what they pay. For the less educationally inclined the look at jobs not requiring a high school or college degree. Funny this guy mentions boilermaker on just such a list.
When I found an old boiler in the woods I showed this kid and asked her what it was. She walked away without answering. I brought her back, and asked again. She shouted the sign said it was a water pump and she didn't care what it was. I let her know it was a boiler, and yes they still use firetube boilers. She knew she was never going to become a boilermaker, but it made her sound more important and smart to say she was going to do something that earned a lot of money. It also made her higher up in the social status to say she was going to do a man's job. People who didn't know any better were encouraging her, but in actuality they were encouraging her to fail. They want her to feel empowered and i the end will do the opposite. What she most likely will be doing is busing tables and washing dishes.
people can train themselves on youtube if the older generations will upload the knowledge
it is the newst and by far in all history the best way to preserve and pass on this information
it's how I've taught myself everything I know
I entered the trades at 37 years old and love being a carpenter. Apparently a fast learner and I do decent money being pretty essential to my boss.
Not even a year and a half after starting I already take jobs on the side apart from my full time job and I can tell you money isn't an issue at all.
If you show you can make your boss profits he will want to keep you and will be ready to pay close to or exactly what you are worth.
On top of that I get a sense of accomplishment everyday and all that without feeling stressed out like i was back in my office times.
I’ve been a carpenter for 45 years. I’m basically an expert at my trade. I can barely walk some days. All of the comments I read are spot on. We get paid crap and the builders and developers live like royalty.
I agree with the reasons of why there are so few carpenters. I am awaiting my red seal certification (Canada based) and I see it all the time. One thing Canada is moving towards is the certification of more trades. They want to certify carpenters like they do electricians and plumbers which will have an impact on this issue. This could be a benefit as there will be a higher standard of education and work completed but at what cost to the current workforce? Canada is also moving towards more energy efficient housing so this quality of work will be a necessity
Bring back residential union carpenter jobs not just commercial great pay ,benefits,retirement and you might see people getting back in the trades 👍🤔
You’re wrong, not in that those 3 aren’t issues but they’re number 3, 4 and 5.
Reason #1: with mass illegal immigration there becomes a huge pool of unskilled labor. It’s way easier to teach an unskilled person a single aspect of the trade and make them competent fairly quickly. Because of this, there are not a lot of carpenters any more because Al of the businesses go specialty, and people go where the business is.
1.a which ties into 1 and 2 is that mass illegal immigration is akin to slave labor and drives down the wages but more importantly
2. Carpentry is a very skilled professional that requires knowledge, creativity, strength, hand eye coordination… all things that some people are incapable of. In a lot of ways I’m a brute that can carry ridiculously heavy stuff but I can also use trig to frame a roof. I carry a 25 oz framing hammer with me I cal the persuader but I also have chisels and files and coping saws. It’s a highly skilled trade, I argue it requires the greatest skill of all the trades while requiring at least comparable know how. And yet, it’s the least paid trade (see 1.a)
That’s 95% of the problem
🎯
Carpentry is not a trade, as a carpenter you if you want to be a good builder you will know 95% of the other trades needs.
I have been a carpenter for 25 years and I started with a builder that built foundation to finish.
Carpentry schools simply need an update. I did 1.5 years in woodshop and 2 years on site. When I graduated, I had never touched any moldings, hung a door, or even cut drywall. If you gave me 3.5 years with an aspiring carpenter, he would be worth $35-50/hr fresh out of high school at 17-18 years old. That would solve the biggest dillema. It's very difficult to pay a new guy more than $15-20/hr to watch and learn. Customers aren't willing to invest in the next generation of carpenters and they really shouldn't have to, if schools were spitting out real carpenters instead of whatever I was at graduation.
Hello, how are you, Hong? It is an honor to meet you. My name is Jamal, I live in Morocco, and I work in the fields of wood paint .