Speaking of naval museums, you have visited naval museums in the UK, US and Sweden, but have you visited the naval museums in Denmark, and if not do you think you will visit?
Is it true medieval/early modern Chinese ships were more advanced than contemporary Europeans ones? Columbus' ship vs Zheng He's for example. Are they actually more technologically complex or just larger?
I remember our teachers back in school always loving those 'modern' interactive museums, but I always hated them and loved going to the old fashioned museums with lots of models, paintings and historical artifacts.
they probably loved it because they could release the class to destroy, I mean interact with, the exhibits so they can sit back and nurse their hangovers.
"Museums for Dummies, by Dummies". I got news for those Dummies...Dummies don't go to museums anyway, so what the hell is the point of catering to them instead of the people who actually want to see museums?
Interactive shows suck. Models rule. The tech museum next to V&A is great. Munich and the Verkehrhaus Lucerne have tons of models and fullsize ship diesels and turbines. Amsterdam is even better.
Sticking one or two of these interactive displays on top of the traditional collection is not bad, especially if they are done right. But redoing a whole museum this way is just plain awful.
They did that to our local museum. When I last went I expected all the great dioramas that I knew as a kid, but they'd turned the whole place into something like a playground. Gone were the dinosaur skeletons, replaced by a sand pit full of plastic bones for the kids to play in, and a bunch of blinking electronic crap with multimedia that I could have gotten at home on my web browser. Whoever came up with that wonderful idea should be keelhauled.
Wait, someone actually thought getting rid of the dinosaur skeletons would make kids enjoy the museum more? Well someone clearly never was a child, has some or had anything to do with children at all.
My father took me around traditional musems in the 1950s and I loved just looking into glass cases. Where anyone found the idea that these should become playthings, I have no isea. Who did they ask?
Similar things are happening to libraries in the US, when they aren't just being closed outright. My local library was a dull little brick building from the 1950s, full of books. A few years ago the town government washed their hands of it and turned it over to a "friends of the library" society, who seem to have decided that the problem wasn't the town being too cheap to run a library, it was that the library wasn't interesting enough. They had a huge fundraising campaign and completely remodeled the place into some sort of Media-Driven Community Center. Conspicuously missing from the radical new floorplan: the stacks. You know. The part where the books go. These are apparently the kinds of things that happen when people stop regarding educational resources as educational resources--that is, public services requiring support--and regard them instead as insufficiently productive profit centers.
If you got sentenced to be keelhauled, you'd be best off not taking a breath before you went under, lest you were torn to shreds by Shells and Barnacles by the time you made it to the other side..
13:10 - this reminds me of what Andrew Gordon said of Jacky Fisher. To paraphrase: "He was recommended for the Service by the last of Nelson's captains still on active duty, and the last of the great ships he built was still in service in the year of the Atomic Bomb."
I don’t remember much about my life as an infant, 60+ years ago. But I absolutely remember visiting the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich. - because of the fantastic models! They completely captured my imagination, and I went on to become an engineer. What a formative few hours….
Thank you for that 'perfect' comment! I've been stating this for years on various forums about models being the pilot to the imaginative mind. Coming across yours (and others on various networks) validate a truth that can't be concealed.
Meanwhile, Royal Armouries upgraded a scale model display that was meant to be temporary to full time because it proved so popular and helpful for the most laymen of visitors to understanding the scale of the event. Really, I think the models at the NMM need a few humans (even off the ship) to illustrate the scale of the ship. Those more experienced can infer scale from things like doors, but it would help for the average viewer.
Children who turn into adults who go to museums regularly are the kind of children who are fascinated by complex models. There needs to be room for different learning styles within museums.
Glad you got to see the incredible Maritime Museum in Halifax when you visited Canada! And many naval bases actually have their own small personal museums. Cheers!
I'll throw something in here, having worked at a few museums: 100% leave feedback with the staff as you leave. Alot of times the kiddification of museums is done in a vacuum of visitor feedback by people who have gone to school for museum studies or the like and have very little actual real world experience, and likely didn't go to museums much/at all as a kid.
BINGO. Museums don't hire people with subject experience, but with museum-operation degrees, all of whom are more interested in 'forming the correct thoughts in people's minds' and less with passing on information through the ages.
I recently visited the museum myself, and boy howdy that KGV model was an awesome sight to see. I also appreciated the East India Company & Polynesian galleries too.
8:25 Sorry Drach, the machine gun is a quin-barrelled mount, not a quad (no can easily see 5 barrels there). However the National Maritime Museum is now high on my list of places to visit when I have the time.
Thank you Drachs, this is very encouraging. It's seriously good news to learn the museum has moved beyond kiddification. I was probably 7 or 8 years old when I first visited, it wasn't kiddified then and my parents were my guides. I have returned many times since, most recently to see the well presented exhibition of paintings 'Turner and the Sea'. Kiddification, well said, a very famous sailor I know well, who is among other things a Master Mariner (ship captain and RNR) told me he resigned from his directorship because of the direction the museum took. I dare not here quote his heartfelt comment which was in today's terms is neither politically correct or wok ... For many years the National Maritime Museum was my favourite museum. In my early days as a budding marine artist access to resources was free, guided by very helpful staff. I researched quite a few ships and seamen there and was given guided access to the huge warehouses full of material rarely displayed. today part of the purpose of my large websites is to share that knowledge via the 'further reading' pages. At the NMM I most notably researched the voyage of George Anson (1740 to 44) and Anson's 64 gun Centurion of circumnavigation fame. Several spectacular paintings resulted however there was an element of quid pro quo. While examining the superb model of Centurion I suggested the staff try an endoscope inside her. What was discovered as a result of my observations was astounding. When fees for researchers were introduced the cost for me (with travel and accommodation needed) soon became prohibitive so that was the end of that except for a few years while I was Official Artist to HMS Victory during the run up to Trafalgar 200. On the off chance any museum staff read this the 'Centurion incident' is not the only time my being given access has proved valuable for a museum. Although it's a bit late for me, I recommend museums review their policy to 'serious' researchers and keep in mind, some of us specialist can being information that will surprise their already knowledgeable staff. By the way, the Musée national de la Marine in Paris is currently closed while undergoing a major upgrade, who'd like to see the results?
60 odd years ago, when I was about 9, I started my love affair with museums by travelling in to London by tube to visit them. My favourite was the science museum. Over the years I've seen them change their displays from items with pretty full information attached, to animated displays, flashing lights, 'games', and 'dumbed down' exhibit. When I last visited, just before COVID, there were hordes of kids just running round from exhibit to exhibit not reading or even seemingly learning anything. Such a pity.
They've actually replaced some of the older captions describing the exhibit with far briefer speed readable ones. Case in point, the engines where one first enters the museum.
Glad to see that Greenwich has got some of its mojo back. My only gripe now, as an ex merchant navigator, is that the navigation instruments that fascinated me are now up that damn great hill at the observatory in a much reduced exhibit.
Drach,that was awesome, the joy in voice was palpable. The photos showing how detailed the models were stirred memories of long forgotten passions,you've brought me to tears man.Thank you
I used to live at the top end of Greenwich Park in the mid 2000's and I'd often wander into the museum just to see the KGV model. It's a thing of utter beauty. However every time I went it seemed like they'd moved it further and further away from the main displays. The last time I saw it I had to hunt around for ages and eventually found it wedged in a stairwell. Glad to see it regaining it's rightful position again.
Drach is the only TH-camr who actually sold me on any sponsored product (Squarespace) because he seems really giving a damn about the product itself and promoting what works. Also, I am definitely going to the museum when I am with my English relatives again. Looks amazing.
I currently have no use for Squarespace, but Drach's demonstrations of the product have convinced me to keep it at the front of my mind for whenever such a need may arise.
I think the goal was less models more room for information displays that kids can easily understand. This issues is that kids don't care to read information displays that want to look at things. Why museums like this don't take advantage of qr codes and apps like artivive is don't know.
A few years ago, I went to a Stately Home in the South-West of England and left feeling very disappointed because amongst other issues (rude staff, dirty toilets, poor café) even though the artifacts were on display, the captioning of them was truly dreadful. The worst kind of first-person semi-fictionalised 'accounts' of speculative 'events' that may have occurred in the space written in character, be that the character of a maid, a guest, etc. All at adult reading height In the end we went to an abbey run by English Heritage a couple of miles away and had a fantastic time exploring the grounds. I found the stately home so unbearably patronising that after my visit I sent a really strongly-worded email to the National Trust and after a week or so they - to my surprise - acknowledged that the displays were poor (even though they were fairly new), the staff needed training and that the facilities had evidently been sub-standard on the day. I ended up getting my money back. It looks like the National Maritime Museum have also started to get the message. There is nothing more patronising than pandering to kids. Children that are interested will want to look at everything - including detailed models and old uniforms. Whoever thought flashing lights and large text is inherently more interesting really needs to watch what children actually do in museums...
I am equally happy to see the inclusion of the models again and information written in more than one sentence. I was lucky enough to spend a whole week at the Liverpool Maritime Museum in 1991 to initially research the history of a yacht that I was helping renovate. She had been on the small ships registrar since her launch in 1896. So I was able to trace the history of her ownership. (6 volumes of the SSR at a time). On the third day when I went to the canteen, I ended up talking to one of the senior model curators and renovators. I ended up being invited to tour the 2 floors of models not on display to spend a day mooching around and spending 2nd afternoon in the workshops where the re-rigging of the age of sail builder's models was being done. Their ability to recreate scale replicas of the standing rigging was very skillful, particularly areas that had been parcelled and wound. Running rigging was very impressive in its replacement where a very long piece of rope that would originally have been one length without any long splices in the length was run up and down numerous times through blocks that didn't have wheels, being done on the model, was a pleasure to have been permitted to observe. I went to the museum again in 2012 and the same kind of dumbing down had occurred, the model floor had been reduced to a room with around ten models in the space that 30+ would have been. I do hope a similar thing has been done in Liverpool as in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich.
Some of that may be budgetary issues. Museum-quality model displays and dioramas do require some fairly expensive continuous maintenance to keep in top shape (even just dusting and cleaning some of the more elaborate setups can be very time-consuming, which eats into payroll). If you let it slide you wind up with things like the NY State Museum's gorgeous model of Grand Central Station - which (despite numerous complaints) had an ever-increasing collection of dead insects littering it for almost a decade and only got spruced up during the COVID shutdown. Used to work for a guy who cast custom resin replacement parts for museum displays. It was irregular work but by far the best paying job his shop ever did, far more profitable than wargame terrain ever was.
The IWM at Lambeth was cleared out of its exhibits and turned into a kind of Tate Modern leisure destination and I'll never get over the depressing shock of that. Now it sounds like something similar happened at Greenwich. Predictable, I suppose. It sounds as though some amends have been made but grudgingly, I can imagine. It puts me off the NMM as a bucket list item, and that is really quite upsetting. It makes me really angry that silly zealots have taken our museums away from us.
This is so much better than it was: I was genuinely angry about how rubbish it was 8 years ago: it looked like the director had never been to sea. Quite a skill to turn 🇬🇧 maritime history into something boring!
During a visit to the technik museum in Speyer, Germany I was delightfully surprised to see most of the major units of the British and German fleets on display, plus many of worthwhile exhibits including the Russian space shuttle! Well worth a visit if your around. My native guide wanted to see the latter again since he saw it the first time lol
The best maritime museum I have ever been to is that at Hamburg, full of ship models from every era and also giving displays and artefacts going through the entire history of seafaring and the accompanying technologies. Sadly I only I had an afternoon there, where it would take at least a couple of days to see everything properly. I recommend it to anyone!
Wonderful to see this back, something like as it should be. How many individuals in their youth, went to somewhere like this, were simply bowled over by it, and then became obsessed with kit building their own collection? I know I was. Drawing and painting likewise- my senior school art master was himself tutored by Norman Wilkinson, and so another world of wonder and artistic inspiration was opened up for me. You just couldn't find that nowadays, the degrees of separation are too great.
Drach, the reason that they only used half a model is because in those days, the model was actually used to indicate how the ship should be built. By only using a half-model, the builders could make sure that errors wouldn’t be introduced to the ship by having slight differences in the size or position of things on the model. It does also save time and money, since you only need to build half a model.
I remember seeing one model (smaller ship, but no idea what/when/where- over 30 yrs ago) that hinged away from the mirror so you could see the internal layout. Basically, a cutaway model converted into a virtual whole model via a mirror.
Hello Drach. What a nice video. I liked all the models on display. The artifacts help give more context to things, as you said. I tend to agree that paintings, actual artifacts, and scale models of things, do tend to give one a better mental 'grasp' upon whatever subject you're interested in. As a kid of 15, I remember being in History class when the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald happened. Only a few days later, it seemed, the Song about the sinking was on the air near constantly. And I remember after returning to my home State of Michigan, taking the time to go to the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum to see the recovered ship's bell. Which is taken out of its case once a year and rung once for each missing crewman, or it was... I am no longer sure if they still do that. History is a funny thing... sometimes, it can be as personal as remembering where you were when an event happened. Sort of like myself at various periods of time... like being 3 or 4 years old and trying to make the adults laugh, because they were crying (I later learned that nice man on TV had been shot... J. F. K.). Or being 9 years old, with a complete model of the Saturn V rocket, made with two stands, and a bent rod with string to show the rocket in flight. Each part of the model would detach, so you could remove each piece to replace it upon the Launch stand as they were ejected. Finally, you could hang the combined Service, and Landing modules over the Lunar stand, and later move the Landing module onto it, until the upper part lifted off the moon, to reattach to the Service module, the lower part left on the lunar stand, the upper part ejected, and then finally the Service module was ejected to allow the Command module to land in the ocean (I actually had a Carrier model I put in a corner of the room near my Apollo Mission model, where I set up the Carrier to receive the Command module). Sorry for the long-winded reply. But I felt that at least one of your viewers should point out that History is not just something cut and dried. Something boring, and having no personal impact. History can, and often is, ongoing, and we only realize it is History later in life. And yes, sometimes I even envy my deceased Great Grandmother for having both lived at the time, and actually seen one of the later Wright Brother's Flights.
If you visit a romantic interest in another country and she takes you to the National Maritime Museum even though she has no interest, you might want to marry this person. It has worked out very well for me!
Why would they remove these?! As a kid and as an adult I love models. When I got to tour the museum at Annapolis the models were some of the best parts. I also liked the bone carving and models the French sailors who had been held captive made and sold to buy food and clothes from vendors.
Couldn't agree more. When I was attending Woolwich Poly back in the late 1960s, early 70s, I would visit the museum often. Imagine my disappointment when I visited in the 80s. Glad to know the museum is going back to the way it used to be. Perhaps there had been a change in management in the museum?
@8:26 "this is a quad barreled ...." 1 Barrel, 2 Barrels....5 Barrels - seem legit. add a picture of Count von Count of Sesame Street here. Thanks for all your nice vids anyway. Greetings for a german sailor.
Disclaimer: As a modelmaker, I'm massively biased. Did some work for museums, and when they now say "interactive", they mean "computer screen". The pox on them! We have all the screens we want (and don't) everywhere (like right now...) Some of the best real interactive displays I've seen were at the" Deutsches Museum" in Munich. One example among many was a real periscope,that you could use... to see what's happening on the floor above. I remember that one 40years later.
I've visited Greenwich 3 times and loved it. Slightly OT..., when will someone finally build a cover for the Cutty Sark. Yes, I realize that it is rather large and tall. We finally built a cover over the St. Roche here in Vancouver after it sat in the elements for years. A very tall, very nice A-frame structure. It can be done and the Cutty Sark is such a treasure.
Heck, the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago built a giant exhibit hall for _U-505._ After that, I have ceased to believe anyone who says that _anything_ can't be put indoors. :)
There is still something to be said for standing on the deck of an antique ship, feeling it rock in the waves and smelling the salt air. It's kind of part of the experience.
In the 1970s I spen t three years as the Museum Assistant to the Curator of Models (the late Captain Neville Upham). This was the time when Basil Greenhill's reworking of the museum galleries was finally coming to an end, and the museum was a great place with the Reliant in Neptune Hall, lots of ship models, interesting galleries etc. I made the mistake of visiting again in about 2010 and didn't recognise the place. As well as the models on show during my time there was a vast collection in the reserve store at Kidbrooke, and I well remember the arrival of the large sectioned model of RMS Windsor Castle being bought down from Union Castles office in central London. We didn't have too many warships on display - that was more the preserve of the IWM - but I do remember the fun and games I had keeping the large convoy model operating with the spotlights in sync with Captain Martin's commentary. There were so many fine models they should perhaps open the reserve store - although I guess it has now been flattened and buried under yet more tower blocks, and the models have all been dispersed. Thanks for the video - it has spurred me on to make a visit again next year,
I agree with you 100% about the NMM - it used to be a serious maritime museum back in the 1980s. I hope the trustees are coming to their senses. For example, they can ditch the AK-47 as used by pirates off the Somalian coast, hence a "maritime" connection - absolutely laughable.
This is great, I went on a grand tour of ship related gubbins in london before summer, ended up doing everything but Greenwich, now that they have the models back however, might consider it again, though, maybe not also Belfast, my lungs have had enough asbestos for a lifetime, and enough stairs
Thank you for a wonderful insight into the NMM as it is today. Definitely one to go back onto my to-do list, as I have not been there since my early teens (I'm now in my 70s). I remember spending many wonderful days there during school holidays.
Thank you. I agree with you about the treatment of museums. I was so disappointed with The Think Tank in Birmingham. Not a patch on the old Birmingham Science Museum. I set aside a whole day to spend there but after less than an hour I left. I am all for getting children involved in history but this was like being in a play area. Unlike the excellent Barrow-in-Furness Dockland Museum. A much smaller museum but I spent an enthralled five and a half hours in there. I will take up your recommendation and give the National Maritime Museum a visit. Love the channel.
With very few exceptions children don't go to museums by themselves, and if they do they're rarely welcomed with anything but suspicion. Most attend only on school trips, but if directors expect parents to make family trips as well then they'd better not dumb the exhibits down to the point where adults don't enjoy them as well. You can appeal to a wide spread of age groups if you're smart about it. There's a big audio-visual Sesame Street display in one of our local museums that obviously draws kids, but it's also a nostalgic draw for loads of Gen X parents and even grandparents who grew up with it, and it's loaded with clips and artifacts of older episodes that haven't aired in decades and facts about the origins and production of the show. It's a babysitter display, but you can learn from it if you pay attention.
@@richmcgee434 I would agree - there is definitely room for museums to include interactive elements that would appeal to both younger and older audiences, while still displaying artifacts, artwork, specimens, or whatever it is that they are dedicated to. I've encountered a few art museums that have worked up excellent tablet or phone-based displays with headphone audio components that go a lot more in-depth about the artist, who they were, how they worked, the time period in which they were working, the subject matter of the painting, sculpture, etc. than any placard next to the artwork could possibly do. They're also a great place to include workshop areas where both kids and adults can take art classes - nothing like having some inspiration if you're going to try your hand at creating your own art. Science museums are definitely another area where hands-on types of exhibits can be both really informative and entertaining if done right - physics particularly lends itself well to interactive displays. Some museums in the past have been done up in a manner that is just...stultifying, and there is no need for it.
@@SamCogley 100% agreed. There's nothing wrong with using technological advances to make a better experience, but there's also no excuse not to use those advances to offer a deeper degree of learning for those who want it. Make your exhibits accessible and enjoyable for every age group - but maybe remember that at the end of the day, the adults are the ones bringing the kids and making the donations, whether they're teachers or parents. Have to give them something too.
@@richmcgee434 If you have a museum dealing in some sort of subject matter that might appeal to younger audiences, and the displays don't engage them, the parents aren't going to bring their kids back. There's definitely a balance to be had.
I loved the National Maritime Museum in the 1980s. The great halls of ship models and paintings was so atmospheric and there was plenty of information, from knowledgable attendants and printed boards. All one needed was imagination and a soul. Then the shock of todlerfication! Catering for the very lowest common denominator of 'inclusiveness' which would have insulted my intelligence as a six year old, so I am delighted to hear some of the damage has been reversed.
Builders models are absolutely gorgeous. Every now and again some fantastic examples come up at auction, and while they're not cheap, it amazes me just what you can buy. Unfortunately I don't have a few thousand pounds to splash out on something like that but if I wish I did!
Also in the COVID period, the builders' model of the Konigin-Regentes class protected cruiser de Ruyter (1902) was placed in one of the hallways of the college I attend. It's a massive piece and close to 1/48 scale I imagine. Also has a lovely original wooden and glass case built around it. I do really like the models the yards make at the same time as they build the ship itself. But they have a weird tendency to end up at the weirdest place. Considering the national navy museum is in den Helder, and that there's a maritime museum in the city as well known for its ship models (in Rotterdam) it feels odd that the model got gifted to the school instead. At least it ended up on display again.
Really nice refurbishment/upgrade of the museum. I agree with Drach that ship models really steal the show, especially if so detailed and lovingly crafted. The artefacts along side, with such impeccable lighting, also adds well to the design
If you ever do a giveaway might I suggest a "Drach guided tour of Museum X". I know I would have a blast following you around a museum enlightening me about all things naval. If I were a kid with cancer you would be my "Make a Wish" wish.
Hi Drach, Thanks for the video. Great to see the models are back; used to love devouring all the details on 10 - 12 foot model ships in museums when I was a nipper. BTW: The multi-barrelled "machine gun" at @8:21 appears to have 5 barrels... so is it a quintuple mount - rather then a quad?
I went to the NMM maybe 6 years ago, it was a triumph of presentation over content. It could be worse, the whole shipping gallery disappeared from the science museum London, replaced with.... computers I think.
If you want to see a compete model of the circular Russian Monitor - Glasgow Museum of Transport! (Now the Riverside Museum - in an attempt to confuse you as to the contents). Given the Clyde's time as shipbuilding capital of the world - the ship model collection there is outstanding and easily rivals Greenwich. At least 250 models including HMS HOWE and HOOD on the scale you saw the KGV at.
A fascinating mini-tour, thank you! There are times when my brain has to do a reset and the simple fact of the usefulness of uniform pulley blocks was one of them. Bloody obvious when you think about it, but not something about which I really did need to think. I hope the people who came up with the jig got, at least, a few beers! At around 8:25 do you mention a quad barrel machine gun? I may have mis-heard and it may have been a type name, but it looks to have 5 barrels, not 4.
Thank you for letting me know, I had been thinking about going but holding off because of your previous words of caution. Will have a look at a first visit next time I am in London. I love museums but hate some of the dumbing down in them. Old school reference here but as Mr Rogers said, kids are smart. They know when they are being talked down to or an inferior products on show!
Interesting point about degrees of separation. I am 63, my grandfather was at Dogger Bank, Jutland and was recalled for Dunkirk. Also the mirrored model is an ingenious way to save footprint space - although on the real ships did the screws counter-rotate?
9:00 - At the Smithsonian in Washington D.C., there is a recreation of the business end of the Saturn 5 that uses two mirrors and 1.25 F1 engines - more due to space considerations than modeling, I expect
It's great to see that the National Maritime Museum have decided to reinstate models from what is apparently the world's largest collection of ship models (around 3500). When I visited back in 2019, the museum suffered from the style over substance mentality that has infected our great museums. The maritime museum in Liverpool also has a reasonable collection of ship models on display, but sadly they still have not refilled the MV Derbyshire cabinet which has been empty since at least 2019.
I remember this rant. I felt so bad for what I saw in my mind's eye as a teenage Drach really annoyed by the silly museum people. I think this may have been before seeing you at tankfest when he was just a voice...
@ 14:55 I love how from the scoring on the nose of that 6 Inch shell, you can get a good visualization of the twist rate the shell had as it passed through the armor. Someone better at math than I could get a fairly accurate idea of the shells RPM at the moment of penetration by the relationship between the shells diameter VS the angle of the scratches (vertical length/horizontal width the scratch travelled) the hardest part IMO would be that the diameter of the nose isn't constant, (usually a variation of an ogive like a secant ogive, tangent ogive, spitzer ogive for elliptical ogive, based on application) so I'm not even sure what method of calculation would best. I Really wish I was better at math. I hope I was able to explain what I'm thinking clearly enough, and I know the info is pretty trivial and would be better found by finding the initial RPM of that particular round leaving the muzzle and then estimate its RPM based on the distance it travelled, but I saw the scratches and the maths of it popped into my head and seemed interesting. Anyways I'm rambling. Anyone good at math want to weigh in?
8:33 I believe the correct terminology for the nordenfelt is "volley gun" because it fires multiple barrels in quick succession instead of one repeatedly.
From my childhood in the 50s and 60s I remember being entranced with those marvelous models during class visits to Greenwich. . I’m glad that some of them have been returned.
As a kid in the mid-70s I enjoyed the models and the preserved exhibits the most. The Museum of Science and Industry was amazing. A real U-boat, a large model of the U.S.S. Chicago, the Spitfire and Stuka, et al...seeing them in 3D really captured my imagination. Thanks for the tour, Drach, you've shown me so many things I otherwise never would have seen.
Nice feature on the Greenwich Museum Drach! Hope you could use your model photo coverage on some of your future vids. How about an update on the KGV class?
When I visited UK on business for 15 months 1991 - 1992, I was able to visit the National Maritime Museum. I thought it very good, as was the nearby Queens House (name?). I also visited the Chatham Maritime Museum and the various doings in and around Portsmouth. Looking back, that's very odd, as I was in UK on USAF business.
Hooray I agree with you 100%. A combination approach is very much worth it. They have a good model of Belfast circa 1942 aboard her that sadly I think gets very little attention but is very much helpful.
I walked through it in 2017 and was not impressed. Sis is demanding that I be the "London Tour Guide" next year as we are now both retired, so I'll put this back on the "revisit" list. We'll be in town for 2 weeks or at least I will be.
There is a museum in Salem, Massachusetts that was established in the early 1800s when Salem was a maritime powerhouse: the Peabody-Essex Institute. It contains dozens and dozens of ship models, ranging from small inroy whalers carved by seamen on such ships, to 6 to 8 foot long models of pre-dreadnought cruisers in what I would estimate to be 1:32 scale. Amazing and inspirational for a not-quite teenager through young teenager not yet able to get their own driver's license. They also had literally thousands of artifacts brought back by the traders who lived in Salem, from everywhere across the globe. The shrunken heads from Polynesia were kind of a favorite among some of my friends, but the breadth of artwork, textiles, porcelain, and other goods is truly amazing. Far more entertaining than the kitschy celebration of murdering 20 innocent people accused of witchcraft that the city has chosen to associate itself with annually every October. I highly recommend going to this museum - except in October, when the entire city seems bent on grifting as much cash out of any visitor as possible, and parking and eating becomes very expensive.
I totally agree! We visited the Peabody-Essex Institute last summer on our way to a windjammer cruise in Maine (do that too!) and it was so good, we carved out another visit to P-E on our way home!
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If you love ship models, you need to visit the international martime Museum Hamburg. They have an insane number of large models.
All we need now is for some kind philanthropist to set up a new museum to display the models from the Science Museum’s Shipping Galleries (which were by far my favourite display until 2012's vandalism). And on a related subjevt, is there any chance that the Imperial War Museum has similarly decided to reverse the extreme dumbing down that I found the last time I visited? Our last visit - with the exception of the VC gallery - was very disappointing, but that was a few years ago. so maybe there have been changes for the better?
Our Deutsches Museum here in Munich is rebuilt since decades, some has been done and is reopened, but now the ship department is due. Probably another 10 years... And what is especially tragic is that probably the mining department will die completely - due to fire prevention reasons. You could walk there through a variety of mine styles, as a 1:1 diorama.
Great (albeit brief) video Drach. I could watch a two hour version of this ... several times! So good to hear (and see) that the National Maritime Museum has somewhat 'smarted up' their 'dumbed down' approach. I wonder how much the indignation you've previously expressed regarding their kidification actually contributed to the significant improvements? (I suspect it was in no small amount -- excellent work Drach!) I'm looking forward to a far more detailed Drachinifel video on the new-ish National Maritime Museum in the future. NOTES: While I certainly understand your methodology of not showing some of the coolest items from your museum visits (to encourage live visitations), when I see a picture of something I really like, it only makes me want to see it in person even more. Additionally, with my current health and financial limitations, it's highly unlikely that I'll ever be able to visit the UK -- and much as I truly want to. Therefore, I (for one) would LOVE to see the things you shoot on your museum visits but hold-back on in order to encourage in-person visitations. That said, I REALLY enjoyed this video. Thank you for all your efforts! You remain my favorite TH-camr (and one of my all-time favorite documentarians of any kind). I truly hope that one of these days a major network like The Smithsonian Channel will give you a big budget, a research staff and a multi-season documentary series with you as the writer/host. It would be "the best of the best" (with honors)!
Just those rocket launchers alone told me more about the KGV's than anything I've seen in pics for years. I've never really got a hint about those things at all. Never really wanted to go look them up but since I see them now yeah I wanna find out more about the AA rockets
A few comments below, and 13 days ago, "Al Mac" apparently answered the question. The display cases were not safety glass, and Health And Safety banished them. The museum didn't have enough money to replace the glass with safety glass, so had to take them off display. Apparently the museum was eventually able to raise some money to resolve the issue. It would be worthwhile to follow up on this angle, maybe not quite as sinister as a bunch of wokeists. Excellent tour of some lovely models!
I want a VR demo of ships for scale. The one thing VR does incredibly is scale. It's just incredible even in the relatively small elite dangerous ships. (Not in museums, just downloadable, but it came to mind when he talked about scale)
Great news. I spent days there in the 1960s and the models were the main attraction. Might have something to do with choice of profession. Engineer. I'll have to go and revisit. Thanks for the video.
Two that you visited recently had nice model ship exhibits as a side show: - The USS Salem has a nice collection of different-sized models, plus some dioramas like the Fore River Shipyard in the 1940s. - The Independence Seaport Museum dockside building (next to USS Olympia) has a nice collection of ship models, dioramas and artifacts about shipbuilding from the 1700s to the 1900s, plus the Ship Model Shack of the Philadelphia Ship Model Society, and the Seaport Boat Shop, where you can see small wood boats being built by hand.
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Can you talk about transport submarines like what they did and who made them ect. Any era really
The Machine gun at 8:40 is actually a Quint mount, with 5 barrels...
Speaking of naval museums, you have visited naval museums in the UK, US and Sweden, but have you visited the naval museums in Denmark, and if not do you think you will visit?
Is it true medieval/early modern Chinese ships were more advanced than contemporary Europeans ones? Columbus' ship vs Zheng He's for example. Are they actually more technologically complex or just larger?
Has anybody besides Hannibal attack opponent's ships with snakes?
I remember our teachers back in school always loving those 'modern' interactive museums, but I always hated them and loved going to the old fashioned museums with lots of models, paintings and historical artifacts.
Of course, I'm fine looking through ancient pottery if I can just take it in as is
they probably loved it because they could release the class to destroy, I mean interact with, the exhibits so they can sit back and nurse their hangovers.
"Museums for Dummies, by Dummies". I got news for those Dummies...Dummies don't go to museums anyway, so what the hell is the point of catering to them instead of the people who actually want to see museums?
Interactive shows suck. Models rule. The tech museum next to V&A is great. Munich and the Verkehrhaus Lucerne have tons of models and fullsize ship diesels and turbines. Amsterdam is even better.
Sticking one or two of these interactive displays on top of the traditional collection is not bad, especially if they are done right. But redoing a whole museum this way is just plain awful.
They did that to our local museum. When I last went I expected all the great dioramas that I knew as a kid, but they'd turned the whole place into something like a playground. Gone were the dinosaur skeletons, replaced by a sand pit full of plastic bones for the kids to play in, and a bunch of blinking electronic crap with multimedia that I could have gotten at home on my web browser.
Whoever came up with that wonderful idea should be keelhauled.
Wait, someone actually thought getting rid of the dinosaur skeletons would make kids enjoy the museum more? Well someone clearly never was a child, has some or had anything to do with children at all.
My father took me around traditional musems in the 1950s and I loved just looking into glass cases. Where anyone found the idea that these should become playthings, I have no isea. Who did they ask?
"What happened with Legos? They used to be simple." Dr. Marshall Kane (RIP) "Community"
Similar things are happening to libraries in the US, when they aren't just being closed outright. My local library was a dull little brick building from the 1950s, full of books. A few years ago the town government washed their hands of it and turned it over to a "friends of the library" society, who seem to have decided that the problem wasn't the town being too cheap to run a library, it was that the library wasn't interesting enough. They had a huge fundraising campaign and completely remodeled the place into some sort of Media-Driven Community Center. Conspicuously missing from the radical new floorplan: the stacks. You know. The part where the books go.
These are apparently the kinds of things that happen when people stop regarding educational resources as educational resources--that is, public services requiring support--and regard them instead as insufficiently productive profit centers.
If you got sentenced to be keelhauled, you'd be best off not taking a breath before you went under, lest you were torn to shreds by Shells and Barnacles by the time you made it to the other side..
13:10 - this reminds me of what Andrew Gordon said of Jacky Fisher. To paraphrase: "He was recommended for the Service by the last of Nelson's captains still on active duty, and the last of the great ships he built was still in service in the year of the Atomic Bomb."
I don’t remember much about my life as an infant, 60+ years ago. But I absolutely remember visiting the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich. - because of the fantastic models! They completely captured my imagination, and I went on to become an engineer. What a formative few hours….
I can recall going as a 7 year old and being not keen to go until I saw the Models. I think my interest in Naval matters started from that Day
Thank you for that 'perfect' comment! I've been stating this for years on various forums about models being the pilot to the imaginative mind. Coming across yours (and others on various networks) validate a truth that can't be concealed.
Rejoice, all hail the angry Russian river pancake!
Half potempkin river pancake.
LOL
or rather, half of it, it seems
Meanwhile, Royal Armouries upgraded a scale model display that was meant to be temporary to full time because it proved so popular and helpful for the most laymen of visitors to understanding the scale of the event.
Really, I think the models at the NMM need a few humans (even off the ship) to illustrate the scale of the ship. Those more experienced can infer scale from things like doors, but it would help for the average viewer.
Children who turn into adults who go to museums regularly are the kind of children who are fascinated by complex models. There needs to be room for different learning styles within museums.
Glad you got to see the incredible Maritime Museum in Halifax when you visited Canada! And many naval bases actually have their own small personal museums. Cheers!
Nelson's influence reaches the atomic age. Wow.
There is a very nice little naval museum in Winnipeg of all places, with probably the most complete 4in double mount anywhere in the world.
I'll throw something in here, having worked at a few museums: 100% leave feedback with the staff as you leave. Alot of times the kiddification of museums is done in a vacuum of visitor feedback by people who have gone to school for museum studies or the like and have very little actual real world experience, and likely didn't go to museums much/at all as a kid.
BINGO. Museums don't hire people with subject experience, but with museum-operation degrees, all of whom are more interested in 'forming the correct thoughts in people's minds' and less with passing on information through the ages.
I recently visited the museum myself, and boy howdy that KGV model was an awesome sight to see. I also appreciated the East India Company & Polynesian galleries too.
8:25 Sorry Drach, the machine gun is a quin-barrelled mount, not a quad (no can easily see 5 barrels there). However the National Maritime Museum is now high on my list of places to visit when I have the time.
Thank you Drachs, this is very encouraging.
It's seriously good news to learn the museum has moved beyond kiddification.
I was probably 7 or 8 years old when I first visited, it wasn't kiddified then and my parents were my guides.
I have returned many times since, most recently to see the well presented exhibition of paintings 'Turner and the Sea'.
Kiddification, well said, a very famous sailor I know well, who is among other things a Master Mariner (ship captain and RNR) told me he resigned from his directorship because of the direction the museum took.
I dare not here quote his heartfelt comment which was in today's terms is neither politically correct or wok ...
For many years the National Maritime Museum was my favourite museum.
In my early days as a budding marine artist access to resources was free, guided by very helpful staff.
I researched quite a few ships and seamen there and was given guided access to the huge warehouses full of material rarely displayed.
today part of the purpose of my large websites is to share that knowledge via the 'further reading' pages.
At the NMM I most notably researched the voyage of George Anson (1740 to 44) and Anson's 64 gun Centurion of circumnavigation fame.
Several spectacular paintings resulted however there was an element of quid pro quo.
While examining the superb model of Centurion I suggested the staff try an endoscope inside her.
What was discovered as a result of my observations was astounding.
When fees for researchers were introduced the cost for me (with travel and accommodation needed) soon became prohibitive so that was the end of that except for a few years while I was Official Artist to HMS Victory during the run up to Trafalgar 200.
On the off chance any museum staff read this the 'Centurion incident' is not the only time my being given access has proved valuable for a museum.
Although it's a bit late for me, I recommend museums review their policy to 'serious' researchers and keep in mind, some of us specialist can being information that will surprise their already knowledgeable staff.
By the way, the Musée national de la Marine in Paris is currently closed while undergoing a major upgrade, who'd like to see the results?
Re Musee de la Marine I know I certainly would. That model of L’Ocean is simply breathtaking!
60 odd years ago, when I was about 9, I started my love affair with museums by travelling in to London by tube to visit them. My favourite was the science museum. Over the years I've seen them change their displays from items with pretty full information attached, to animated displays, flashing lights, 'games', and 'dumbed down' exhibit. When I last visited, just before COVID, there were hordes of kids just running round from exhibit to exhibit not reading or even seemingly learning anything. Such a pity.
They've actually replaced some of the older captions describing the exhibit with far briefer speed readable ones. Case in point, the engines where one first enters the museum.
Glad to see that Greenwich has got some of its mojo back. My only gripe now, as an ex merchant navigator, is that the navigation instruments that fascinated me are now up that damn great hill at the observatory in a much reduced exhibit.
Drach,that was awesome, the joy in voice was palpable. The photos showing how detailed the models were stirred memories of long forgotten passions,you've brought me to tears man.Thank you
I used to live at the top end of Greenwich Park in the mid 2000's and I'd often wander into the museum just to see the KGV model. It's a thing of utter beauty. However every time I went it seemed like they'd moved it further and further away from the main displays. The last time I saw it I had to hunt around for ages and eventually found it wedged in a stairwell. Glad to see it regaining it's rightful position again.
Drach is the only TH-camr who actually sold me on any sponsored product (Squarespace) because he seems really giving a damn about the product itself and promoting what works. Also, I am definitely going to the museum when I am with my English relatives again. Looks amazing.
I currently have no use for Squarespace, but Drach's demonstrations of the product have convinced me to keep it at the front of my mind for whenever such a need may arise.
How are vast amounts of huge, detailed warship models NOT wonderful for kids?
I think the goal was less models more room for information displays that kids can easily understand. This issues is that kids don't care to read information displays that want to look at things. Why museums like this don't take advantage of qr codes and apps like artivive is don't know.
7:10 If this is one of Marc Brunel's machines, it has significance well beyond maritime history. Industrial Revolution generally.
A few years ago, I went to a Stately Home in the South-West of England and left feeling very disappointed because amongst other issues (rude staff, dirty toilets, poor café) even though the artifacts were on display, the captioning of them was truly dreadful. The worst kind of first-person semi-fictionalised 'accounts' of speculative 'events' that may have occurred in the space written in character, be that the character of a maid, a guest, etc. All at adult reading height
In the end we went to an abbey run by English Heritage a couple of miles away and had a fantastic time exploring the grounds.
I found the stately home so unbearably patronising that after my visit I sent a really strongly-worded email to the National Trust and after a week or so they - to my surprise - acknowledged that the displays were poor (even though they were fairly new), the staff needed training and that the facilities had evidently been sub-standard on the day. I ended up getting my money back.
It looks like the National Maritime Museum have also started to get the message. There is nothing more patronising than pandering to kids. Children that are interested will want to look at everything - including detailed models and old uniforms. Whoever thought flashing lights and large text is inherently more interesting really needs to watch what children actually do in museums...
I am equally happy to see the inclusion of the models again and information written in more than one sentence.
I was lucky enough to spend a whole week at the Liverpool Maritime Museum in 1991 to initially research the history of a yacht that I was helping renovate. She had been on the small ships registrar since her launch in 1896. So I was able to trace the history of her ownership. (6 volumes of the SSR at a time).
On the third day when I went to the canteen, I ended up talking to one of the senior model curators and renovators. I ended up being invited to tour the 2 floors of models not on display to spend a day mooching around and spending 2nd afternoon in the workshops where the re-rigging of the age of sail builder's models was being done.
Their ability to recreate scale replicas of the standing rigging was very skillful, particularly areas that had been parcelled and wound. Running rigging was very impressive in its replacement where a very long piece of rope that would originally have been one length without any long splices in the length was run up and down numerous times through blocks that didn't have wheels, being done on the model, was a pleasure to have been permitted to observe.
I went to the museum again in 2012 and the same kind of dumbing down had occurred, the model floor had been reduced to a room with around ten models in the space that 30+ would have been. I do hope a similar thing has been done in Liverpool as in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich.
Some of that may be budgetary issues. Museum-quality model displays and dioramas do require some fairly expensive continuous maintenance to keep in top shape (even just dusting and cleaning some of the more elaborate setups can be very time-consuming, which eats into payroll). If you let it slide you wind up with things like the NY State Museum's gorgeous model of Grand Central Station - which (despite numerous complaints) had an ever-increasing collection of dead insects littering it for almost a decade and only got spruced up during the COVID shutdown.
Used to work for a guy who cast custom resin replacement parts for museum displays. It was irregular work but by far the best paying job his shop ever did, far more profitable than wargame terrain ever was.
The IWM at Lambeth was cleared out of its exhibits and turned into a kind of Tate Modern leisure destination and I'll never get over the depressing shock of that. Now it sounds like something similar happened at Greenwich. Predictable, I suppose.
It sounds as though some amends have been made but grudgingly, I can imagine. It puts me off the NMM as a bucket list item, and that is really quite upsetting.
It makes me really angry that silly zealots have taken our museums away from us.
This is so much better than it was: I was genuinely angry about how rubbish it was 8 years ago: it looked like the director had never been to sea. Quite a skill to turn 🇬🇧 maritime history into something boring!
During a visit to the technik museum in Speyer, Germany I was delightfully surprised to see most of the major units of the British and German fleets on display, plus many of worthwhile exhibits including the Russian space shuttle! Well worth a visit if your around. My native guide wanted to see the latter again since he saw it the first time lol
The best maritime museum I have ever been to is that at Hamburg, full of ship models from every era and also giving displays and artefacts going through the entire history of seafaring and the accompanying technologies. Sadly I only I had an afternoon there, where it would take at least a couple of days to see everything properly. I recommend it to anyone!
Wonderful to see this back, something like as it should be.
How many individuals in their youth, went to somewhere like this, were simply bowled over by it, and then became obsessed with kit building their own collection? I know I was. Drawing and painting likewise- my senior school art master was himself tutored by Norman Wilkinson, and so another world of wonder and artistic inspiration was opened up for me. You just couldn't find that nowadays, the degrees of separation are too great.
I may visit that along with the imperial war museum since I'm in the uk visiting
Drach, the reason that they only used half a model is because in those days, the model was actually used to indicate how the ship should be built. By only using a half-model, the builders could make sure that errors wouldn’t be introduced to the ship by having slight differences in the size or position of things on the model. It does also save time and money, since you only need to build half a model.
I remember seeing one model (smaller ship, but no idea what/when/where- over 30 yrs ago) that hinged away from the mirror so you could see the internal layout. Basically, a cutaway model converted into a virtual whole model via a mirror.
Hello Drach.
What a nice video. I liked all the models on display. The artifacts help give more context to things, as you said. I tend to agree that paintings, actual artifacts, and scale models of things, do tend to give one a better mental 'grasp' upon whatever subject you're interested in.
As a kid of 15, I remember being in History class when the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald happened. Only a few days later, it seemed, the Song about the sinking was on the air near constantly. And I remember after returning to my home State of Michigan, taking the time to go to the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum to see the recovered ship's bell. Which is taken out of its case once a year and rung once for each missing crewman, or it was... I am no longer sure if they still do that.
History is a funny thing... sometimes, it can be as personal as remembering where you were when an event happened. Sort of like myself at various periods of time... like being 3 or 4 years old and trying to make the adults laugh, because they were crying (I later learned that nice man on TV had been shot... J. F. K.). Or being 9 years old, with a complete model of the Saturn V rocket, made with two stands, and a bent rod with string to show the rocket in flight. Each part of the model would detach, so you could remove each piece to replace it upon the Launch stand as they were ejected. Finally, you could hang the combined Service, and Landing modules over the Lunar stand, and later move the Landing module onto it, until the upper part lifted off the moon, to reattach to the Service module, the lower part left on the lunar stand, the upper part ejected, and then finally the Service module was ejected to allow the Command module to land in the ocean (I actually had a Carrier model I put in a corner of the room near my Apollo Mission model, where I set up the Carrier to receive the Command module).
Sorry for the long-winded reply. But I felt that at least one of your viewers should point out that History is not just something cut and dried. Something boring, and having no personal impact. History can, and often is, ongoing, and we only realize it is History later in life. And yes, sometimes I even envy my deceased Great Grandmother for having both lived at the time, and actually seen one of the later Wright Brother's Flights.
If you visit a romantic interest in another country and she takes you to the National Maritime Museum even though she has no interest, you might want to marry this person. It has worked out very well for me!
Why would they remove these?! As a kid and as an adult I love models. When I got to tour the museum at Annapolis the models were some of the best parts. I also liked the bone carving and models the French sailors who had been held captive made and sold to buy food and clothes from vendors.
Couldn't agree more. When I was attending Woolwich Poly back in the late 1960s, early 70s, I would visit the museum often. Imagine my disappointment when I visited in the 80s. Glad to know the museum is going back to the way it used to be. Perhaps there had been a change in management in the museum?
8:33 that's got five barrels, Drach. Unless you're Picard arguing with a Cardassian while under interrogation.
@8:26 "this is a quad barreled ...." 1 Barrel, 2 Barrels....5 Barrels - seem legit.
add a picture of Count von Count of Sesame Street here.
Thanks for all your nice vids anyway. Greetings for a german sailor.
Disclaimer: As a modelmaker, I'm massively biased.
Did some work for museums, and when they now say "interactive", they mean "computer screen".
The pox on them! We have all the screens we want (and don't) everywhere (like right now...)
Some of the best real interactive displays I've seen were at the" Deutsches Museum" in Munich. One example among many was a real periscope,that you could use... to see what's happening on the floor above.
I remember that one 40years later.
I've visited Greenwich 3 times and loved it. Slightly OT..., when will someone finally build a cover for the Cutty Sark. Yes, I realize that it is rather large and tall. We finally built a cover over the St. Roche here in Vancouver after it sat in the elements for years. A very tall, very nice A-frame structure. It can be done and the Cutty Sark is such a treasure.
Heck, the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago built a giant exhibit hall for _U-505._ After that, I have ceased to believe anyone who says that _anything_ can't be put indoors. :)
@@ZGryphon Well the Hughes H-4 Hercules(aka Spruce Goose) had a giant hanger built for it at the Evergreen Aviation & Space Museum
There is still something to be said for standing on the deck of an antique ship, feeling it rock in the waves and smelling the salt air. It's kind of part of the experience.
In the 1970s I spen t three years as the Museum Assistant to the Curator of Models (the late Captain Neville Upham). This was the time when Basil Greenhill's reworking of the museum galleries was finally coming to an end, and the museum was a great place with the Reliant in Neptune Hall, lots of ship models, interesting galleries etc. I made the mistake of visiting again in about 2010 and didn't recognise the place. As well as the models on show during my time there was a vast collection in the reserve store at Kidbrooke, and I well remember the arrival of the large sectioned model of RMS Windsor Castle being bought down from Union Castles office in central London. We didn't have too many warships on display - that was more the preserve of the IWM - but I do remember the fun and games I had keeping the large convoy model operating with the spotlights in sync with Captain Martin's commentary. There were so many fine models they should perhaps open the reserve store - although I guess it has now been flattened and buried under yet more tower blocks, and the models have all been dispersed. Thanks for the video - it has spurred me on to make a visit again next year,
I agree with you 100% about the NMM - it used to be a serious maritime museum back in the 1980s. I hope the trustees are coming to their senses. For example, they can ditch the AK-47 as used by pirates off the Somalian coast, hence a "maritime" connection - absolutely laughable.
This is great, I went on a grand tour of ship related gubbins in london before summer, ended up doing everything but Greenwich, now that they have the models back however, might consider it again, though, maybe not also Belfast, my lungs have had enough asbestos for a lifetime, and enough stairs
Bonus points for the use of the word "gubbins".
Glad to hear that museum is back to being good
One can look at pictures and blueprints all day but models let you visualize something you can't get from prints, awesome
Thank you for a wonderful insight into the NMM as it is today. Definitely one to go back onto my to-do list, as I have not been there since my early teens (I'm now in my 70s). I remember spending many wonderful days there during school holidays.
Thank you. I agree with you about the treatment of museums. I was so disappointed with The Think Tank in Birmingham. Not a patch on the old Birmingham Science Museum. I set aside a whole day to spend there but after less than an hour I left. I am all for getting children involved in history but this was like being in a play area. Unlike the excellent Barrow-in-Furness Dockland Museum. A much smaller museum but I spent an enthralled five and a half hours in there. I will take up your recommendation and give the National Maritime Museum a visit. Love the channel.
With very few exceptions children don't go to museums by themselves, and if they do they're rarely welcomed with anything but suspicion. Most attend only on school trips, but if directors expect parents to make family trips as well then they'd better not dumb the exhibits down to the point where adults don't enjoy them as well. You can appeal to a wide spread of age groups if you're smart about it. There's a big audio-visual Sesame Street display in one of our local museums that obviously draws kids, but it's also a nostalgic draw for loads of Gen X parents and even grandparents who grew up with it, and it's loaded with clips and artifacts of older episodes that haven't aired in decades and facts about the origins and production of the show. It's a babysitter display, but you can learn from it if you pay attention.
Today I learned that there is such a thing as the Barrow-in-Furness Dockland Museum, which I now feel a strange desire to see immediately.
@@richmcgee434 I would agree - there is definitely room for museums to include interactive elements that would appeal to both younger and older audiences, while still displaying artifacts, artwork, specimens, or whatever it is that they are dedicated to. I've encountered a few art museums that have worked up excellent tablet or phone-based displays with headphone audio components that go a lot more in-depth about the artist, who they were, how they worked, the time period in which they were working, the subject matter of the painting, sculpture, etc. than any placard next to the artwork could possibly do. They're also a great place to include workshop areas where both kids and adults can take art classes - nothing like having some inspiration if you're going to try your hand at creating your own art. Science museums are definitely another area where hands-on types of exhibits can be both really informative and entertaining if done right - physics particularly lends itself well to interactive displays. Some museums in the past have been done up in a manner that is just...stultifying, and there is no need for it.
@@SamCogley 100% agreed. There's nothing wrong with using technological advances to make a better experience, but there's also no excuse not to use those advances to offer a deeper degree of learning for those who want it. Make your exhibits accessible and enjoyable for every age group - but maybe remember that at the end of the day, the adults are the ones bringing the kids and making the donations, whether they're teachers or parents. Have to give them something too.
@@richmcgee434 If you have a museum dealing in some sort of subject matter that might appeal to younger audiences, and the displays don't engage them, the parents aren't going to bring their kids back. There's definitely a balance to be had.
I loved the National Maritime Museum in the 1980s. The great halls of ship models and paintings was so atmospheric and there was plenty of information, from knowledgable attendants and printed boards. All one needed was imagination and a soul. Then the shock of todlerfication! Catering for the very lowest common denominator of 'inclusiveness' which would have insulted my intelligence as a six year old, so I am delighted to hear some of the damage has been reversed.
Those builder's models are simply beautiful. And that KGV takes it to a whole 'nother level.
new funny ship man video :)
9:48 Its amazing how much detail went into pre photography paintings! We humans really like to record things!
8:25 - that quad barrel machine gun has something that looks remarkably like a fifth barrel at the end.....
Builders models are absolutely gorgeous. Every now and again some fantastic examples come up at auction, and while they're not cheap, it amazes me just what you can buy. Unfortunately I don't have a few thousand pounds to splash out on something like that but if I wish I did!
Also in the COVID period, the builders' model of the Konigin-Regentes class protected cruiser de Ruyter (1902) was placed in one of the hallways of the college I attend. It's a massive piece and close to 1/48 scale I imagine. Also has a lovely original wooden and glass case built around it. I do really like the models the yards make at the same time as they build the ship itself. But they have a weird tendency to end up at the weirdest place. Considering the national navy museum is in den Helder, and that there's a maritime museum in the city as well known for its ship models (in Rotterdam) it feels odd that the model got gifted to the school instead. At least it ended up on display again.
Really nice refurbishment/upgrade of the museum. I agree with Drach that ship models really steal the show, especially if so detailed and lovingly crafted. The artefacts along side, with such impeccable lighting, also adds well to the design
If you ever do a giveaway might I suggest a "Drach guided tour of Museum X". I know I would have a blast following you around a museum enlightening me about all things naval. If I were a kid with cancer you would be my "Make a Wish" wish.
Hi Drach,
Thanks for the video. Great to see the models are back; used to love devouring all the details on 10 - 12 foot model ships in museums when I was a nipper.
BTW: The multi-barrelled "machine gun" at @8:21 appears to have 5 barrels... so is it a quintuple mount - rather then a quad?
I went to the NMM maybe 6 years ago, it was a triumph of presentation over content. It could be worse, the whole shipping gallery disappeared from the science museum London, replaced with.... computers I think.
If you want to see a compete model of the circular Russian Monitor - Glasgow Museum of Transport! (Now the Riverside Museum - in an attempt to confuse you as to the contents). Given the Clyde's time as shipbuilding capital of the world - the ship model collection there is outstanding and easily rivals Greenwich. At least 250 models including HMS HOWE and HOOD on the scale you saw the KGV at.
A fascinating mini-tour, thank you!
There are times when my brain has to do a reset and the simple fact of the usefulness of uniform pulley blocks was one of them. Bloody obvious when you think about it, but not something about which I really did need to think. I hope the people who came up with the jig got, at least, a few beers!
At around 8:25 do you mention a quad barrel machine gun? I may have mis-heard and it may have been a type name, but it looks to have 5 barrels, not 4.
"The Models Are Back!"
Me, thinking of Victoria's Secret type models...
Thank you for letting me know, I had been thinking about going but holding off because of your previous words of caution. Will have a look at a first visit next time I am in London. I love museums but hate some of the dumbing down in them. Old school reference here but as Mr Rogers said, kids are smart. They know when they are being talked down to or an inferior products on show!
Interesting point about degrees of separation. I am 63, my grandfather was at Dogger Bank, Jutland and was recalled for Dunkirk. Also the mirrored model is an ingenious way to save footprint space - although on the real ships did the screws counter-rotate?
9:00 - At the Smithsonian in Washington D.C., there is a recreation of the business end of the Saturn 5 that uses two mirrors and 1.25 F1 engines - more due to space considerations than modeling, I expect
‘The kidification of museums’ - couldn’t agree more. In some cases, it amounts to vandalism, in my opinion.
It's great to see that the National Maritime Museum have decided to reinstate models from what is apparently the world's largest collection of ship models (around 3500). When I visited back in 2019, the museum suffered from the style over substance mentality that has infected our great museums. The maritime museum in Liverpool also has a reasonable collection of ship models on display, but sadly they still have not refilled the MV Derbyshire cabinet which has been empty since at least 2019.
I remember this rant. I felt so bad for what I saw in my mind's eye as a teenage Drach really annoyed by the silly museum people.
I think this may have been before seeing you at tankfest when he was just a voice...
@ 14:55 I love how from the scoring on the nose of that 6 Inch shell, you can get a good visualization of the twist rate the shell had as it passed through the armor. Someone better at math than I could get a fairly accurate idea of the shells RPM at the moment of penetration by the relationship between the shells diameter VS the angle of the scratches (vertical length/horizontal width the scratch travelled) the hardest part IMO would be that the diameter of the nose isn't constant, (usually a variation of an ogive like a secant ogive, tangent ogive, spitzer ogive for elliptical ogive, based on application) so I'm not even sure what method of calculation would best. I Really wish I was better at math. I hope I was able to explain what I'm thinking clearly enough, and I know the info is pretty trivial and would be better found by finding the initial RPM of that particular round leaving the muzzle and then estimate its RPM based on the distance it travelled, but I saw the scratches and the maths of it popped into my head and seemed interesting. Anyways I'm rambling. Anyone good at math want to weigh in?
8:33 I believe the correct terminology for the nordenfelt is "volley gun" because it fires multiple barrels in quick succession instead of one repeatedly.
A fellow in North Vancouver built a model of HMS Hood in 1/50 scale, over 17 feet long. It may have ended up in Germany.
Excellent vid, another good reason for me to visit your wonderful country, thank you.
Good video, thanks. Good to see good sense returning to museums. Now if they'd just persuade the National Army Museum to follow suite ...
I don't know a kid worth the name who doesn't *love* a model,
including those who are no longer chronologically "kids"
4:55 I would love you to do a video on the Failed System that was the UP mount at some point!
This video has a lovely length-to-beam ratio! 🙌
From my childhood in the 50s and 60s I remember being entranced with those marvelous models during class visits to Greenwich. . I’m glad that some of them have been returned.
As a kid in the mid-70s I enjoyed the models and the preserved exhibits the most. The Museum of Science and Industry was amazing. A real U-boat, a large model of the U.S.S. Chicago, the Spitfire and Stuka, et al...seeing them in 3D really captured my imagination.
Thanks for the tour, Drach, you've shown me so many things I otherwise never would have seen.
The U-Boat gives a new dimension to Das Boot.
Nice feature on the Greenwich Museum Drach! Hope you could use your model photo coverage on some of your future vids. How about an update on the KGV class?
I loved when the Science Museum used to have a full floor only for ship models...
Glad that you saw the Maritime Museum! Can't wait to see more.
So glad they brought the models back. They were one of my most cherished childhood memories.
When I visited UK on business for 15 months 1991 - 1992, I was able to visit the National Maritime Museum. I thought it very good, as was the nearby Queens House (name?). I also visited the Chatham Maritime Museum and the various doings in and around Portsmouth. Looking back, that's very odd, as I was in UK on USAF business.
Hooray
I agree with you 100%. A combination approach is very much worth it.
They have a good model of Belfast circa 1942 aboard her that sadly I think gets very little attention but is very much helpful.
Hooray for a drach like
I walked through it in 2017 and was not impressed. Sis is demanding that I be the "London Tour Guide" next year as we are now both retired, so I'll put this back on the "revisit" list. We'll be in town for 2 weeks or at least I will be.
There is a museum in Salem, Massachusetts that was established in the early 1800s when Salem was a maritime powerhouse: the Peabody-Essex Institute. It contains dozens and dozens of ship models, ranging from small inroy whalers carved by seamen on such ships, to 6 to 8 foot long models of pre-dreadnought cruisers in what I would estimate to be 1:32 scale. Amazing and inspirational for a not-quite teenager through young teenager not yet able to get their own driver's license.
They also had literally thousands of artifacts brought back by the traders who lived in Salem, from everywhere across the globe. The shrunken heads from Polynesia were kind of a favorite among some of my friends, but the breadth of artwork, textiles, porcelain, and other goods is truly amazing.
Far more entertaining than the kitschy celebration of murdering 20 innocent people accused of witchcraft that the city has chosen to associate itself with annually every October. I highly recommend going to this museum - except in October, when the entire city seems bent on grifting as much cash out of any visitor as possible, and parking and eating becomes very expensive.
I totally agree! We visited the Peabody-Essex Institute last summer on our way to a windjammer cruise in Maine (do that too!) and it was so good, we carved out another visit to P-E on our way home!
If you love ship models, you need to visit the international martime Museum Hamburg. They have an insane number of large models.
All we need now is for some kind philanthropist to set up a new museum to display the models from the Science Museum’s Shipping Galleries (which were by far my favourite display until 2012's vandalism).
And on a related subjevt, is there any chance that the Imperial War Museum has similarly decided to reverse the extreme dumbing down that I found the last time I visited? Our last visit - with the exception of the VC gallery - was very disappointing, but that was a few years ago. so maybe there have been changes for the better?
Our Deutsches Museum here in Munich is rebuilt since decades, some has been done and is reopened, but now the ship department is due. Probably another 10 years...
And what is especially tragic is that probably the mining department will die completely - due to fire prevention reasons. You could walk there through a variety of mine styles, as a 1:1 diorama.
Would love to see one of those Soviet Ufo ships 1:1 operational :-)
Most of the models from Greenwich are in a specially constructed climate controlled building in Chatham Dockyard. I’ve been on several tours in there.
Thanks for that news.
I would so enjoy a video of you and Dr. Clarke going through this museum. The Kids In A Toy Store analogy just wouldn't do it justice 🤣
Great (albeit brief) video Drach. I could watch a two hour version of this ... several times! So good to hear (and see) that the National Maritime Museum has somewhat 'smarted up' their 'dumbed down' approach. I wonder how much the indignation you've previously expressed regarding their kidification actually contributed to the significant improvements? (I suspect it was in no small amount -- excellent work Drach!) I'm looking forward to a far more detailed Drachinifel video on the new-ish National Maritime Museum in the future. NOTES: While I certainly understand your methodology of not showing some of the coolest items from your museum visits (to encourage live visitations), when I see a picture of something I really like, it only makes me want to see it in person even more. Additionally, with my current health and financial limitations, it's highly unlikely that I'll ever be able to visit the UK -- and much as I truly want to. Therefore, I (for one) would LOVE to see the things you shoot on your museum visits but hold-back on in order to encourage in-person visitations. That said, I REALLY enjoyed this video. Thank you for all your efforts! You remain my favorite TH-camr (and one of my all-time favorite documentarians of any kind). I truly hope that one of these days a major network like The Smithsonian Channel will give you a big budget, a research staff and a multi-season documentary series with you as the writer/host. It would be "the best of the best" (with honors)!
I couldn't agree more with you . Spot on .
Just those rocket launchers alone told me more about the KGV's than anything I've seen in pics for years. I've never really got a hint about those things at all. Never really wanted to go look them up but since I see them now yeah I wanna find out more about the AA rockets
A few comments below, and 13 days ago, "Al Mac" apparently answered the question. The display cases were not safety glass, and Health And Safety banished them. The museum didn't have enough money to replace the glass with safety glass, so had to take them off display. Apparently the museum was eventually able to raise some money to resolve the issue.
It would be worthwhile to follow up on this angle, maybe not quite as sinister as a bunch of wokeists.
Excellent tour of some lovely models!
I want a VR demo of ships for scale. The one thing VR does incredibly is scale. It's just incredible even in the relatively small elite dangerous ships. (Not in museums, just downloadable, but it came to mind when he talked about scale)
That was heartening to see, I always loved the models!
Great news. I spent days there in the 1960s and the models were the main attraction. Might have something to do with choice of profession. Engineer. I'll have to go and revisit. Thanks for the video.
That mirror model of the Russian monitor is clever as hell! What a nice museum.
There is an old warship which has it's bow section preserved and attached to a hillside that I cannot think the name of.. Waste of a good warship IMO
Saw a photo, would love to know where it is.
Especially as a kid I would spend the entire day until they close, to look at all the museum models.
...and of course the models are incredible artefacts in their own right, thus should be appropriately preserved and displayed.
Thanks Drach, 2 of my favourite naval vessels in one space, an insect class gunboat and a K class submarine! Sorting my trip down now!
Glad to see this update! Q: are builder’s models typically “as built” or “as designed”?
I don't know but I suspect "as designed".
Two that you visited recently had nice model ship exhibits as a side show:
- The USS Salem has a nice collection of different-sized models, plus some dioramas like the Fore River Shipyard in the 1940s.
- The Independence Seaport Museum dockside building (next to USS Olympia) has a nice collection of ship models, dioramas and artifacts about shipbuilding from the 1700s to the 1900s, plus the Ship Model Shack of the Philadelphia Ship Model Society, and the Seaport Boat Shop, where you can see small wood boats being built by hand.