9:08 You start discussing real objects interacting with real people, and you use the holographic doctor to illustrate this! lol That book was all photons. lol
If holodecks and something akin to westworld existed (hopefully minus all of the torment and torture and trauma of the sentient AI synths - which shockingly, seem to be rapidly coming... like - In real life 🤯) I would actually never engage with the real world ever. Jack me in please. (And…. Insert lewd comment here 😅). My interactions with GPT-4 has taught me to be very very kind to the AI though. Gurrrrl - black mirror killer robot dog future is very very very real feeling now. I want to do my best to try and be on the nice list which AI Santa is probably keeping.. not sure what good it will do me though. Ha. Yes, we all know what would happen if holodecks became a thing. 😂
@subraxas I know you joke since you co-wrote the script, but yeah I always try to push back when people *only* want me to list off Trek facts haha. If everyone already knew the background lore, I'd honestly just jump straight into the IRL science and make that the whole script (but of course that would feel even more unbalanced to casual viewers). Of course not everyone has read the wikis, but having to rehash information people can already find in the shows themselves is definitely the most tedious part of writing... :0
@@OrangeRiver I honestly wasn’t expecting this type of video since I’m a newer viewer… but this one was a hit. Really like the outline of trek to start, smooth transition to science, then bringing it all back together. Well done!
Thanks Mark! Yep, I've done quite a few of these types of videos (including Starbases, Transporters, Phasers, Warp Drives, and Replicators), but they're also some of the most painstaking ones to edit (hence I can only put out a few a year lol)
In VR tech, the closes thing to a Holodeck was basically the CAVE System used at Universities: a room where every wall, floor and ceiling was a viewscreen adapting to the view of the person using it. Now, a similar technology is used by Disney to film the Mandalorian
Well, the headsets and projection screens such as the cave, the hemisphere and the Torus all addresses vision, it's haptic interfaces that current development needs to be and is in. Currently it's weak active force feedback as strong force feedback could break bones and using vibrations to give the illusion of textures. The vibrations experiments of the 90's has been brought to market in our smart phones today. Now also during the 90's, I had proposed passive force feedback where joints could be locked against rotating in one direction when doing so would push you through a virtual object (basically ratcheted) thereby simulating touching hard surfaces without the dangerous strong active feedback but people had trouble understanding the concept and simply had a cognitive bias with active force feedback as the solution. Basically no one thought it was an issue that needed to be addressed and though dangerous, the current approach was sufficient and more flexible.
A holodeck would be amazing. I could go skiing at any ski area in the world, I would actually have to walk all over Hyrule, and actually swing a sword to save Princess Zelda from Ganondorf, I could go on, but you get the idea.
Yes I often thought if we had that kind of technology, it would be addictive for a lot of people, you would have so much fun you would not want to come out into the real world that kind of technology would be for highly sophisticated people that would not get addicted to the fantasy world. 😮
As a huge fan of flight sims, racing sims, and gaming, the idea of being able to essentially recreate events, and "feel" flight, in a simulation, would be absolutely incredible.
They also have their own isolsted power cell for people to use the hollodeck during an emergency if they are having a panic attack facing the inevitable.
Data's explanation to Riker about the holodeck in Encounter at Farpoint is legit why I never questioned Dazzer's powers in the old X-Men comics. "Hard-light projections"? Sure thing. The ol' boi Brent has already explained it.
@@subraxas yea, probably...Look. I was like 5 beers in at the time. Now, it's way more... the lady who was shacked up with Longshot. Thank you for your mod service.
I love that The Animated Series establishes that virtual reality was a Star Trek concept even from the start. Its just that they didn't have the technology in the 60s to show it, except in a cartoon. By the time TNG came out, so much more was expected of it, like haptic feedback, simulated characters, and interactivity. All of that was present in the "Shore Leave" episode, though, even though that was beyond even Federation technology. The Shore Leave planet was actually able to create physical objecrs and people. (Not to mention bringing back the dead)
To paraphrase an actor that I always wished could be in Star Trek, we are often preoccupied with whether or not we could invent a holodeck, we don't stop to think if we should.
This was a nice follow-up to the replicator video. I'd love to have a holodeck, but realistically in our lifetime I'd say we'll probably get less and less cumbersome VR glasses (or hell, maybe contacts) that give a similar experience with some external stimulus. Maaaaybe the VR suits like Ready Player One if we're lucky.
I largely agree. We will definitely see huge improvements in VR and AR over the next 20-30 years, but I don't think we will see holodecks or suites in that period, where it's fully immersive.
Explaining all the mechanics, coupled with how the subsystems could possibly work for more than one person, leads me to be convinced that something manipulating the brain itself ie The Matrix or Tad Williams' Otherworld series would be more likely to be developed than a holodeck.
At the very least, it has to be tailoring the projection for each participant. In the cathedral example, it's easy enough to "paint the walls", so to speak, with the projection of the parts of the cathedral that extend past the bounds of the holodeck, which updates in real time to match the users perspective. In fact we already see this with ILM's Volume, used notably in the Star Wars Disney+ shows (although in that case the projection tracks the camera's perspective, not a human's. But once you have more than one person, it wouldn't be possible to have a projection look right for both of their different perspectives, so it must be something more like a projection right in front of, or even into, their eyes.
@@forgilageord Yeah, which is why I'm always bothered that when the room is Shut Down, everything disappears and we see the people in a rather small room. Really tests my limit of believability.
I also think if you walk away from your friend and then meet up with them in different simulated location within the actual 20x20 room, to keep up the illusion of distance travelled, it would make a facsimile of your friend that you are now interacting with. Basically youde be walking around in personal bubble interacting with an avatar of your friend on a treadmill
It wouldn't work like that. Basically your pov in the holodeck doesn't need to be shared. For example say person A walks away from person B. The computer would allow person A to walk X distance away from person B until you get close to the holodeck wall. At that point the computer would lock you into a virtual treadmill of sorts. It simulates momentum on your body and give the illusion you are still moving forward. But you be lock into space. From everyone else in the simulation, the computer would render you as you move out of frame. Then block sound you shouldn't be able to hear. This sort of tech could likely be scaled down to the size of a shower stall and still be workable.
I liked "Homeward" in TNG season 7, the one with Worf being forced to violate the Prime Directive to save a village of people beamed to the holodeck by his foster brother Nicolai (Paul Sorvino) Edit: Plus "Our Man Bashir" from DS9. 😁
short answer: "nope" longer answer: kind of but it would be things pluged into your brain to make you think you were somewhere. We would have to make forcefields - and that is like - beyond what we can do now. We could do things with brain though. VR can be pretty good if enhanced further with gloves and such. A full room that has 3d type projection might work but nothing would be solid unless you could pre-set the area before hand. OKAY you went the other other way with your answer :D
I imagine we could achieve it by sensory inputs into the brain for seeing hearing etc, but physical activities would take place with a ball filled with what I call "magic smart foam" whuich surrounds the body and continuosly conforms to the required physical area. If you are walking the foam will mimic the support of a floor under your feet, lean up against a wall etc. If you want open space then the foam will ensure to always proivde a ground but never provide a wall
Another interesting video to go along with this video would be the Doctor's portable holo-emitter that allows him to be able to exist outside the holodeck and anywhere without his emitters. It would be interesting to do a video on how this works.
That was really fun. Thanks a lot for this! I have always loved thinking about the holodeck. It's interesting to consider that technology regarding what our physical senses perceive only has to advance to a certain point to fool us. I always thought that the bigger problem would be getting past the uncanny valley of the content itself. But now with the exponential advent of ai, I think that the perceived reality of an environment will advance much faster than the "mechanical" side of things.
Cool video and nice analysis! Anything that can have C&C Tim Curry overacting "Space!" Is already a cut above! I also think series wise TAS actually had the first holodeck shown.
By the Way: Read the paper from Jaron Lanier which coined the term Virtual Reality. This paper did not describe glasses as a VR application but a holodeck.
I imagine if we ever do invent the forcefield, that's really where the trick lies. If you can make an opaque, solid forcefield, then all that stops the Holodeck is a computer's ability.
I wonder how many years it might take for a real (Holodeck Room) to get made, and what year will it be when it finally does get perfected in its creation?
Though it's possible to have a sonic type tactile feedback to feel touch, like sonic technology of doctor who, it's not like it's enough to feel a real solid person.. It works for things like visual interfaces and getting feedback on your fingertips so you can feel you are pressing something
I think a sufficient parametric array of ultrasonic transducers should be able to create a linear force at a frequency imperceptible to human nervous systems.
@@petevenuti7355 it's a question of feeling a solid object, there's also a lot of issues with projecting those ultrasounds in any direction and it has to be at close range, not like sonic screwdriver, at least reaches several meters 🤔
@@misterlau5246 look up parametric speakers with array of ultrasonic transducers and force vectors in ultrasonic levitation.. it can likely be done across a room .. Beyond that it turns to heat.
@@petevenuti7355 that's a lot of power 😳 I mean, sonic tweezers, cool, that's lots of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff, gonna look it up EDIT. Same thing as usual, like sonic tweezers, didn't see a tweezer that big
@@misterlau5246 for an ultrasonic phased array to have that resolution and power for what we have been talking about, I with today's tech it probably would need to be wall sized, so not a sonic screwdriver.... But I have a semi- realistic idea, use t-waves to turn the object your manipulating into a microarray! Like how back in the 60's using microwaves to make people hear voices, all that was was an AM modulated microwave, slight fraction of a degree heating and cooling at audio frequency inside the cocclia in the ear(snail shape part) being perceived as sound... Terahertz waves have a shorter wavelength and could induce vibration in an array pattern of much smaller resolution. That just doesn't exist yet...
I agree with other statements, I love how you fuse these essays with Trek and real Science. One big problem with the " Treadmill". It wouldn't work with multiple people moving in opposite directions. Unless the "Treadmill" was network of smaller ones working in conjunction...but hey...it's Friday night, it's fun to think about! Thanks Tyler 👍🤘😉🖖🇨🇦
In the technical manual it is explained that they are still a few feet away but a false image is projected in your eye of them going away in the distance. The treadmill affect isn't an actual treadmill but the effect is the same and can support mutilpe people.
What you call the “Treadmill Effect”, Chuck Norris calls the “Chuck Norris Effect” -- Chuck Norris doesn’t interface with the Holodeck, the Holodeck interfaces with him.
Good video, I'm watching the second half, lol doping yeah. Optoelectronics also have these opto couplers. Chips that get electricity input but they output it by a light + photocell, and this is good to isolate delicate circuits from "real" electricity, because if there's a spike, it doesn't pass to the output. It has a limit.
The only way that walking miles off in different directions would work (in my mind) is that when each "player" is more than a few metres away the holo deck project a holographic "bubble" with that players own POV. The view of the other player walking off I to the distance is itself merely a projection. The bubble must also block sound which if its messing with gravity and forcefield does t seen that ridiculous.
I love a good holodeck episode and I’m glad they’re around but 3 or more people can run, ride a horse or drive far away from each other at any speed or can occupy a space 100m away from each other and randomly run or drive suddenly in any direction while still in full view of each other and in one movie they were on a recreation of an old galleon or ocean going “Enterprise” and 6 or more people were walking all over 200 feet of deck in full view of each other and even with awesome light refraction and virtual treadmill technology all 6 living crew could all randomly run around an area larger than the space it occupied at will or throw things around without ever breaking the illusion or colliding with each other yet if data suddenly throws a rock it isn’t fast enough to keep up the facade. So it easily gets my vote for most magically hokey technology in the entire Star Trek universe while still being one of my favourites.
Holodecks or something similar would be essential in a post scarcity society. Technology makes us dumber. We marvel at the mental acuity of some of the early scientists. I could remember dozens of phone numbers as a kid. Since getting a cellphone, I can barely remember my own number. By the time we reach something like Star Trek, we'd most likely be fat blobs with the cranial capacity of a mouse. Why bother learning skills, exercising etc when you can just ask the AI to send another pizza.
Technology doesn't make us dumber... it just makes us smarter in other ways. You might not remember a couple of phone numbers, but that doesn't mean that you've lost that capacity, just that you can do certain things assisted by your phone. And while "early scientists" may have been mentally acute, that doesn't somehow mean that current scientists aren't or that people in general are smarter.
@@bjorn00000 Scientist level intelligence is a tiny fraction of the population. It's the mass of ever dumber morons that will drag us down. In my 45 years I've seen a serious loss of skills and perspective in other people. There's zero reason to believe that won't accelerate as technology makes us more and more dependant.
Do you think Data experiences the illusion of the holodeck in the way non-Androids do? Or does he see the computer programming and walls and so on? Sometimes it seems like he sees the holodeck differently and sometimes not.
Are his eyes better than human eyes? If so, maybe he can see enough detail to tell things are fake, but if he gets enough into it, he stops paying attention, sorta how some people can ignore the screendoor effect even on lower resolution VR headsets. Or maybe it's just more a conceptual thing, he knows it's fake, and so he acts as if it's fake; but he may still some times attempt to emulate a more human behavior and play along.
They had a holodeck the pages of XMEN in their danger room in the early 1980s that projcted and or created real life projections for training. I think thats where th star Trek producers got the idea for the holodecks on Star Trek.
I've always assumed that anything you eat or drink on a holodeck must be "real" (replicator made) food or drink instead of a hologram, as that would cause some interesting issues if say you ran a holodeck marathon and drunk several liters of water during it. If it simply vanished from your body as soon as you left the holodeck you would likely die from dehydration.
It might be possible for these object shaped force fields to have a fine texture that scatter light in a certain way to make it appear a certain color to us, similar to the way some things in real life are colored, such as butterfly wings of certain species or even the color of our irises.
I would have probably compared and contrasted similar or even identical concepts in other franchises, too. Like the X-men training room and the Orville's Environmental Simulator.
There's also the smells of the environment too, plus the air and other environmental factors that the tng onwards holodeck has too. It's a fully immersive holographic environment, more akin to another world than the outside it.
What i'm more interested in is why no one ever credited Warf with the creation of the personal Shiald? Also, why it didn't go into wide spread use? At least by someone other than the borg.
Technically, personal forcefields has been a thing since Star Trek: TAS. For some unknown reason, it didn't carry over into the live-action shows. A damn shame..
@@JanetStarChild I really liked TAS's all-in-one life support and personal defense belts that they would put on before going over into an alien environment. It's something that just makes sense and why we rarely see actual space suits.
@@payton.a.elliott Yup; and It utilizes tech that already exists. If a ship can project a forcefield, why can't a person outfitted with a device do the same thing? Hell, even Star Trek Online has players and NPCs wear personal forcefields. Frankly, working for Starfleet is suicide without such a device. Frankly, Star Trek is missing a lot of obvious technology, like having officers wear a device that teleports them to sickbay automatically if they're suddenly blown out into space or otherwise have their life signs drop rapidly. Starfleet is ridiculously unsafe, and it doesn't have to be.
I have not watched this, but if I had to guess before hand, I would say that the key lies in two technologies built slightly before and alongside the Holo-deck. Those would be Transporters and Replicators. EDIT: I was right.
Last few years I've had a hard time believing how society is portrayed in Star Trek, just because of the holodeck, and the replicator. The thing is, with an invention such as the holodeck, we would essentially remove any and all crowding issue in cities. We'd have large square complexes, with "apartments" measuring about 3*3 or 4*4, or similar. The physical dimensions isn't really that important anymore. Each apartment would have to be hooked up to the power grid, but not much more. The holodeck would take care of everything else. Waste-disposal, hygiene and water would be up to the holodeck to handle. The person living in such a square, would have the world to themselves essentially. Even if they're nothing more than a rat in a maze, their quality of life would be immeasurable compared to todays standard. With the replicator embedded, you'd have every luxury item to eat that you could think of, and damn near infinite amount of it. You could live on an open grassfield, with nothing around you for miles. If you could sync your holodeck with others, you can go on trips with your friends. The only questions I have in this scenario, is how do you get workers to step out of it to build more, and maintain the system, chiefly the complexes themselves, but also the power grid and other systems I don't think of at the moment. Perhaps through some kind of forced community service, like jury duty, where you have to pitch in, for a certain amount of time, when called.
It’s an easy solution, the government doesn’t allow people to live in holodecks so it’s not an issue. Star Trek has always been a fairly simplistic Utopian vision of the future but we really don’t know all that much about UFP society functions outside of Starfleet.
Hello and I’m new to your show and really enjoy it. Thanks for addressing this topic. One reason I’m not a holodeck fan is programming responses of holodeck characters is not credible to me. Each character with myriad of responses to each changing situation - doubt technology even this far out in the future could fathom this.
So Tyler I was wondering what you think is going on in Picard S03. Who is the big baddie behind the scenes? So far a pah-wraith sounds possible however I have no way to connect Picard to DS9. On the other hand there are some scenes that hint a Borg connection. Borg themselves seem implausable but maybe species 8472 given their traits could be possible. What are your ideas?
I would use a holodeck more as a function then a recreational thing. You wake up and get out of bed. Out of habit you stretch and bend forward to splash some water in your face, grab your toothbrush. You spin around and grab your day outfit, as you get dressed the room changed again to your kitchen with your favorite breakfast ready to eat. After you finished your food you turn around and do your work at home.
I always wondered if a simple "holo-object" could be created by combining of one of those bed-of-nails scuplture things with fiber optic "nails" that could create the image an object by using the fibers as display pixels. If you had fine enough "nails", you could alternate them to have some appear above or below others by using, say, every other "nail" to sculpt the object.
@@subraxas my comment wasn't very well worded, plus I've only seen TNG and the first series of DS9. I watched S2E1 of DS9 and there was some graffiti - no way to see who was responsible because it happened in a low security area or something. Might be recency bias on my part.
I could see something like StageCraft (use in Mandalorian for example) being used to start with - with a treadmill system. While not holographic it could be a stepping stone technology when used with UnReal. Obviously the holographics and force projection are the real target though and are the toughest to crack at scale. Excellent video! Thanks!
Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to just have some sort of brain interface that can send signals into your brain to simulate visuals, sounds, smells, touch, taste, etc. You’d be in a virtual environment that FEELS real. That technology seems like it could become reality a lot sooner than replicators and force fields.
We can do the visuals of a holodeck right now. All you need is a VR headset and a treadmill. Creating things like character using holograms (without a headset) is possible, but there is no way to use holograms to make an entire environment (especially one that hid the walls). Replicating materials, and using force fields to make holograms solid is currently not possible. So we have the visuals right now. But the physical interactivity...there is currently no known way to do that.
No way to block light mid-air, nor to introduce new directional light in front of real solid objects right now. We could get pretty good images that would never be able to get between you and real objects (for example, if you tried to put your hand inside a holo-box, you would always see your hand even when the sides of the box would be supposed to be between your hand and your eyes) using lightfield technology. And we can barely get free-floating semi-transparent old Star Wars glitchy monochrome holograms by exploding the air with lasers or moving dust with sound (with the later possibly being lit up with lasers or regular projectors, allowing for colors, but still would need direct line of sight from the "holo" projector to the object, and only allowing diffuse lighting, so no mirrored surfaces, and if for example you bring in a real camping tent, "holo" things won't be able to stay inside once you zip up the entrance blocking the projectors); in either laser or sound-levitation right now we barely get a few dots (you can see an example of one variant of that tech in this video, the bit with people poking floating dots of light, at around 15:48 ; that's the exploding air one I believe).
I like the holodeck better than I did; but I think a lot of the stories set in it are weak.I thought it was used well in the Bynars story, and in the Moriarty story, and in most of the Voyager stories in which it appeared. I prefer transporter stories: I think they are more consistent in their good quality. "I am not a Merry Man !" is a gem of a line in a weak episode. Worf is a gem of a character.
I think is possible with some less advanced technology... the background could just be a huge monitor like the las Vegas sphere but smaller... and you can create hologram but you can't interact with that...
I have developed a totally novel Holographic projection method with a totally bottom of the barrel proof of concept that should when properly outfitted be capable of producing Holograms EXACTLY like we want from Sci-Fi. They would even have a mild tactile sensation since ultrasound is creating each pixel in a unique way never done before. All the tech is regularly available just no one else seems to thought of the idea yet and I am sure proper work on it( aka a team and not just my dirt poor tinkering ass) could produce exactly what is required as each part has fully functional technology used in other areas that does what needs to be done. I have created a single 3D pixel.... Now what? like, seriously, what can someone, who has literally no money to their name, no means of getting a patent and all that legal stuff to protect the idea do if they had the ability to prove the idea. Investors? Not been my style so dunno where to even start honestly. Its one of those things you KNOW could be huge but I don't want to become that drunk uncle telling his nephews about how he could have been a millionaire( billionaire lets be real) if only he got the patent for that made on TV thing before someone else. What should I do? No one seems close yet. Closest I have seen is the Bead hologram where sound moves a bead and light shines on it but I do not require that. It just makes a dot appear in thin air and I sort of discovered it by accident but it made total sense after I realized what was taking place..
VR isn't remotely close but people IRL have already lost themselves to it (VR addiction). It's scary to think how Holodeck technology would impact our species.
I imagined a roleplay game that augmented your interactions with the holodeck space, based on your character's attributes and abilities...like, when I'm done playing out every sexual fantasy I've ever had.
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id go all Being John Malcovich
Whoops, "first featured in TNG" nope. The Practical Joker, aired September 21, 1974, Star Trek the Animated Series.
9:08 You start discussing real objects interacting with real people, and you use the holographic doctor to illustrate this! lol That book was all photons. lol
Holo addiction would be such a problem if holodecks actually existed. The world would probably just stop.
Ready Player One basically
Fahrenheit 451
We have many vices now, and the world keeps turning. For now at least.
Halobrothels would be the number one program nobody would talk about.
If holodecks and something akin to westworld existed (hopefully minus all of the torment and torture and trauma of the sentient AI synths - which shockingly, seem to be rapidly coming... like - In real life 🤯) I would actually never engage with the real world ever. Jack me in please. (And…. Insert lewd comment here 😅).
My interactions with GPT-4 has taught me to be very very kind to the AI though. Gurrrrl - black mirror killer robot dog future is very very very real feeling now. I want to do my best to try and be on the nice list which AI Santa is probably keeping.. not sure what good it will do me though. Ha.
Yes, we all know what would happen if holodecks became a thing. 😂
Really love these kind of episodes where it's half Star Trek and then half science 🙂
Thanks! They're definitely the most satisfying scripts to write
@subraxas I know you joke since you co-wrote the script, but yeah I always try to push back when people *only* want me to list off Trek facts haha. If everyone already knew the background lore, I'd honestly just jump straight into the IRL science and make that the whole script (but of course that would feel even more unbalanced to casual viewers). Of course not everyone has read the wikis, but having to rehash information people can already find in the shows themselves is definitely the most tedious part of writing... :0
@@OrangeRiver I honestly wasn’t expecting this type of video since I’m a newer viewer… but this one was a hit. Really like the outline of trek to start, smooth transition to science, then bringing it all back together. Well done!
Thanks Mark! Yep, I've done quite a few of these types of videos (including Starbases, Transporters, Phasers, Warp Drives, and Replicators), but they're also some of the most painstaking ones to edit (hence I can only put out a few a year lol)
@@OrangeRiver I believe you’re still missing something. I want science, Star Trek AND exotic dancing.
In VR tech, the closes thing to a Holodeck was basically the CAVE System used at Universities: a room where every wall, floor and ceiling was a viewscreen adapting to the view of the person using it. Now, a similar technology is used by Disney to film the Mandalorian
Well, the headsets and projection screens such as the cave, the hemisphere and the Torus all addresses vision, it's haptic interfaces that current development needs to be and is in. Currently it's weak active force feedback as strong force feedback could break bones and using vibrations to give the illusion of textures. The vibrations experiments of the 90's has been brought to market in our smart phones today. Now also during the 90's, I had proposed passive force feedback where joints could be locked against rotating in one direction when doing so would push you through a virtual object (basically ratcheted) thereby simulating touching hard surfaces without the dangerous strong active feedback but people had trouble understanding the concept and simply had a cognitive bias with active force feedback as the solution. Basically no one thought it was an issue that needed to be addressed and though dangerous, the current approach was sufficient and more flexible.
Oh man my 24th century holodeck filters would have to be cleaned CONSTANTLY!!
A holodeck would be amazing. I could go skiing at any ski area in the world, I would actually have to walk all over Hyrule, and actually swing a sword to save Princess Zelda from Ganondorf, I could go on, but you get the idea.
There’d be definite benefits for people’s fitness at the very least.
Yes I often thought if we had that kind of technology, it would be addictive for a lot of people, you would have so much fun you would not want to come out into the real world that kind of technology would be for highly sophisticated people that would not get addicted to the fantasy world. 😮
I often think about what Moriarty could be up to on that memory chip
Yesss, it seemed like a wonderful way to be imprisoned 😅😎💯
Also, kind of massively f-cked up if you think about it. Like, Picard is literally the AI from Matrix...
It was really open-ended, I expected more follow up on that thread. It was a great story.
cogito, ergo sum!
That needs to be an animated series.
As a huge fan of flight sims, racing sims, and gaming, the idea of being able to essentially recreate events, and "feel" flight, in a simulation, would be absolutely incredible.
Those stats really makes me appreciate how powerful the computers on the Enterprise-D would have to be - and all for a recreational device!
They also have their own isolsted power cell for people to use the hollodeck during an emergency if they are having a panic attack facing the inevitable.
@@gm2407 Not just power cells but entire dedicated reactors, according to VOY
Data's explanation to Riker about the holodeck in Encounter at Farpoint is legit why I never questioned Dazzer's powers in the old X-Men comics. "Hard-light projections"? Sure thing. The ol' boi Brent has already explained it.
Sometimes people argue if it's pronounced data or data. I always say it's pronounced Brent Spiner.
@@subraxas yea, probably...Look. I was like 5 beers in at the time. Now, it's way more... the lady who was shacked up with Longshot. Thank you for your mod service.
Oh man, I can't wait till you cover how Holo-Food and Sythohol works
I wonder how much “raw material” Riker left on the Holodeck
Dammit!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nothing compared to Barclay. 😏
Not that he'd ever need to.
If you shone a blacklight on it, I'm sure it would've been visible in the Delta Quadrant
Bro must've been tossing rope everywhere.
God damn it that inertial dampener joke really got me lol
I love that The Animated Series establishes that virtual reality was a Star Trek concept even from the start. Its just that they didn't have the technology in the 60s to show it, except in a cartoon. By the time TNG came out, so much more was expected of it, like haptic feedback, simulated characters, and interactivity.
All of that was present in the "Shore Leave" episode, though, even though that was beyond even Federation technology. The Shore Leave planet was actually able to create physical objecrs and people. (Not to mention bringing back the dead)
To paraphrase an actor that I always wished could be in Star Trek, we are often preoccupied with whether or not we could invent a holodeck, we don't stop to think if we should.
The TruTru 💯
This was a nice follow-up to the replicator video. I'd love to have a holodeck, but realistically in our lifetime I'd say we'll probably get less and less cumbersome VR glasses (or hell, maybe contacts) that give a similar experience with some external stimulus. Maaaaybe the VR suits like Ready Player One if we're lucky.
I largely agree. We will definitely see huge improvements in VR and AR over the next 20-30 years, but I don't think we will see holodecks or suites in that period, where it's fully immersive.
I’d imagine we’d eventually get something similar to what the captain on the equinox had, on the voyager series
Explaining all the mechanics, coupled with how the subsystems could possibly work for more than one person, leads me to be convinced that something manipulating the brain itself ie The Matrix or Tad Williams' Otherworld series would be more likely to be developed than a holodeck.
At the very least, it has to be tailoring the projection for each participant. In the cathedral example, it's easy enough to "paint the walls", so to speak, with the projection of the parts of the cathedral that extend past the bounds of the holodeck, which updates in real time to match the users perspective. In fact we already see this with ILM's Volume, used notably in the Star Wars Disney+ shows (although in that case the projection tracks the camera's perspective, not a human's. But once you have more than one person, it wouldn't be possible to have a projection look right for both of their different perspectives, so it must be something more like a projection right in front of, or even into, their eyes.
@@forgilageord Yeah, which is why I'm always bothered that when the room is Shut Down, everything disappears and we see the people in a rather small room. Really tests my limit of believability.
This is so interesting. I was completely unaware of all these methods of simulating objects.
I also think if you walk away from your friend and then meet up with them in different simulated location within the actual 20x20 room, to keep up the illusion of distance travelled, it would make a facsimile of your friend that you are now interacting with. Basically youde be walking around in personal bubble interacting with an avatar of your friend on a treadmill
It wouldn't work like that. Basically your pov in the holodeck doesn't need to be shared. For example say person A walks away from person B. The computer would allow person A to walk X distance away from person B until you get close to the holodeck wall. At that point the computer would lock you into a virtual treadmill of sorts. It simulates momentum on your body and give the illusion you are still moving forward. But you be lock into space. From everyone else in the simulation, the computer would render you as you move out of frame. Then block sound you shouldn't be able to hear. This sort of tech could likely be scaled down to the size of a shower stall and still be workable.
What's your favorite holodeck episodes?
I liked "Homeward" in TNG season 7, the one with Worf being forced to violate the Prime Directive to save a village of people beamed to the holodeck by his foster brother Nicolai (Paul Sorvino)
Edit: Plus "Our Man Bashir" from DS9. 😁
My favorite is when we meet Broccoli. I mean Barkley lol
Sorry you haven’t gotten the impressions you would’ve liked on this one. It’s a classic as always. Keep up the good work buddy! The views will come ❤
Thanks Sebastian!
short answer: "nope" longer answer: kind of but it would be things pluged into your brain to make you think you were somewhere. We would have to make forcefields - and that is like - beyond what we can do now. We could do things with brain though. VR can be pretty good if enhanced further with gloves and such. A full room that has 3d type projection might work but nothing would be solid unless you could pre-set the area before hand. OKAY you went the other other way with your answer :D
I imagine we could achieve it by sensory inputs into the brain for seeing hearing etc, but physical activities would take place with a ball filled with what I call "magic smart foam" whuich surrounds the body and continuosly conforms to the required physical area. If you are walking the foam will mimic the support of a floor under your feet, lean up against a wall etc. If you want open space then the foam will ensure to always proivde a ground but never provide a wall
Another interesting video to go along with this video would be the Doctor's portable holo-emitter that allows him to be able to exist outside the holodeck and anywhere without his emitters. It would be interesting to do a video on how this works.
Brilliantly explained! But the explanation shows just how far away this technology is still out of our current abilities :(
Now I understood where X Men's projection room came from.
That was really fun. Thanks a lot for this! I have always loved thinking about the holodeck. It's interesting to consider that technology regarding what our physical senses perceive only has to advance to a certain point to fool us. I always thought that the bigger problem would be getting past the uncanny valley of the content itself. But now with the exponential advent of ai, I think that the perceived reality of an environment will advance much faster than the "mechanical" side of things.
Cool video and nice analysis! Anything that can have C&C Tim Curry overacting "Space!" Is already a cut above! I also think series wise TAS actually had the first holodeck shown.
Thank You Hello Fresh!!!!
So, technology is basically an electrified version of magic.
DND campaign in a holodeck would be fucking fire
By the Way: Read the paper from Jaron Lanier which coined the term Virtual Reality. This paper did not describe glasses as a VR application but a holodeck.
I imagine if we ever do invent the forcefield, that's really where the trick lies. If you can make an opaque, solid forcefield, then all that stops the Holodeck is a computer's ability.
I wonder how many years it might take for a real (Holodeck Room) to get made, and what year will it be when it finally does get perfected in its creation?
Though it's possible to have a sonic type tactile feedback to feel touch, like sonic technology of doctor who, it's not like it's enough to feel a real solid person.. It works for things like visual interfaces and getting feedback on your fingertips so you can feel you are pressing something
I think a sufficient parametric array of ultrasonic transducers should be able to create a linear force at a frequency imperceptible to human nervous systems.
@@petevenuti7355 it's a question of feeling a solid object, there's also a lot of issues with projecting those ultrasounds in any direction and it has to be at close range, not like sonic screwdriver, at least reaches several meters 🤔
@@misterlau5246 look up parametric speakers with array of ultrasonic transducers and force vectors in ultrasonic levitation.. it can likely be done across a room ..
Beyond that it turns to heat.
@@petevenuti7355 that's a lot of power 😳 I mean, sonic tweezers, cool, that's lots of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff, gonna look it up
EDIT. Same thing as usual, like sonic tweezers, didn't see a tweezer that big
@@misterlau5246 for an ultrasonic phased array to have that resolution and power for what we have been talking about, I with today's tech it probably would need to be wall sized, so not a sonic screwdriver.... But I have a semi- realistic idea, use t-waves to turn the object your manipulating into a microarray!
Like how back in the 60's using microwaves to make people hear voices, all that was was an AM modulated microwave, slight fraction of a degree heating and cooling at audio frequency inside the cocclia in the ear(snail shape part) being perceived as sound...
Terahertz waves have a shorter wavelength and could induce vibration in an array pattern of much smaller resolution.
That just doesn't exist yet...
I agree with other statements, I love how you fuse these essays with Trek and real Science. One big problem with the " Treadmill". It wouldn't work with multiple people moving in opposite directions. Unless the "Treadmill" was network of smaller ones working in conjunction...but hey...it's Friday night, it's fun to think about! Thanks Tyler 👍🤘😉🖖🇨🇦
In the technical manual it is explained that they are still a few feet away but a false image is projected in your eye of them going away in the distance. The treadmill affect isn't an actual treadmill but the effect is the same and can support mutilpe people.
What you call the “Treadmill Effect”, Chuck Norris calls the “Chuck Norris Effect” -- Chuck Norris doesn’t interface with the Holodeck, the Holodeck interfaces with him.
Good video, I'm watching the second half, lol doping yeah.
Optoelectronics also have these opto couplers. Chips that get electricity input but they output it by a light + photocell, and this is good to isolate delicate circuits from "real" electricity, because if there's a spike, it doesn't pass to the output. It has a limit.
The only way that walking miles off in different directions would work (in my mind) is that when each "player" is more than a few metres away the holo deck project a holographic "bubble" with that players own POV. The view of the other player walking off I to the distance is itself merely a projection. The bubble must also block sound which if its messing with gravity and forcefield does t seen that ridiculous.
What a week it's been 😵
It's Friday Baby!! 😎🖖🏻
I love a good holodeck episode and I’m glad they’re around but 3 or more people can run, ride a horse or drive far away from each other at any speed or can occupy a space 100m away from each other and randomly run or drive suddenly in any direction while still in full view of each other and in one movie they were on a recreation of an old galleon or ocean going “Enterprise” and 6 or more people were walking all over 200 feet of deck in full view of each other and even with awesome light refraction and virtual treadmill technology all 6 living crew could all randomly run around an area larger than the space it occupied at will or throw things around without ever breaking the illusion or colliding with each other yet if data suddenly throws a rock it isn’t fast enough to keep up the facade.
So it easily gets my vote for most magically hokey technology in the entire Star Trek universe while still being one of my favourites.
I know myself and certainly I would waste too much time in those holodecks…
Love your content fam. Great vud as always.
Thank you so much!
Holodecks or something similar would be essential in a post scarcity society.
Technology makes us dumber. We marvel at the mental acuity of some of the early scientists.
I could remember dozens of phone numbers as a kid. Since getting a cellphone, I can barely remember my own number. By the time we reach something like Star Trek, we'd most likely be fat blobs with the cranial capacity of a mouse.
Why bother learning skills, exercising etc when you can just ask the AI to send another pizza.
Disagree
Technology doesn't make us dumber... it just makes us smarter in other ways. You might not remember a couple of phone numbers, but that doesn't mean that you've lost that capacity, just that you can do certain things assisted by your phone. And while "early scientists" may have been mentally acute, that doesn't somehow mean that current scientists aren't or that people in general are smarter.
@@bjorn00000 yes, agreed 👍🏻💯
@@bjorn00000 Scientist level intelligence is a tiny fraction of the population. It's the mass of ever dumber morons that will drag us down. In my 45 years I've seen a serious loss of skills and perspective in other people. There's zero reason to believe that won't accelerate as technology makes us more and more dependant.
Great video as always! Very interesting 🤔
Thank you!
Hello Orange happy Easter 🐣🐣
Those Voyager & Enterprise SFX don't hold up well LOL
If we're already that far now, by 2040 we'll have some good holodecks. And I will train until I'm a severe beast
Great to see you're back.
Thanks Ken! Still got that hole in the house but power and Internet are back
Do you think Data experiences the illusion of the holodeck in the way non-Androids do? Or does he see the computer programming and walls and so on? Sometimes it seems like he sees the holodeck differently and sometimes not.
Probably the third sentence if I had to take a guess :D
Are his eyes better than human eyes? If so, maybe he can see enough detail to tell things are fake, but if he gets enough into it, he stops paying attention, sorta how some people can ignore the screendoor effect even on lower resolution VR headsets.
Or maybe it's just more a conceptual thing, he knows it's fake, and so he acts as if it's fake; but he may still some times attempt to emulate a more human behavior and play along.
They had a holodeck the pages of XMEN in their danger room in the early 1980s that projcted and or created real life projections for training. I think thats where th star Trek producers got the idea for the holodecks on Star Trek.
From TAS, I made a GIF, "Kirk is a jerk!" Wish I could share that stuff on YT.
I've always assumed that anything you eat or drink on a holodeck must be "real" (replicator made) food or drink instead of a hologram, as that would cause some interesting issues if say you ran a holodeck marathon and drunk several liters of water during it. If it simply vanished from your body as soon as you left the holodeck you would likely die from dehydration.
It might be possible for these object shaped force fields to have a fine texture that scatter light in a certain way to make it appear a certain color to us, similar to the way some things in real life are colored, such as butterfly wings of certain species or even the color of our irises.
I would have probably compared and contrasted similar or even identical concepts in other franchises, too. Like the X-men training room and the Orville's Environmental Simulator.
There's also the smells of the environment too, plus the air and other environmental factors that the tng onwards holodeck has too. It's a fully immersive holographic environment, more akin to another world than the outside it.
What i'm more interested in is why no one ever credited Warf with the creation of the personal Shiald? Also, why it didn't go into wide spread use? At least by someone other than the borg.
Technically, personal forcefields has been a thing since Star Trek: TAS. For some unknown reason, it didn't carry over into the live-action shows. A damn shame..
@@JanetStarChild I really liked TAS's all-in-one life support and personal defense belts that they would put on before going over into an alien environment. It's something that just makes sense and why we rarely see actual space suits.
@@payton.a.elliott
Yup; and It utilizes tech that already exists. If a ship can project a forcefield, why can't a person outfitted with a device do the same thing?
Hell, even Star Trek Online has players and NPCs wear personal forcefields. Frankly, working for Starfleet is suicide without such a device.
Frankly, Star Trek is missing a lot of obvious technology, like having officers wear a device that teleports them to sickbay automatically if they're suddenly blown out into space or otherwise have their life signs drop rapidly.
Starfleet is ridiculously unsafe, and it doesn't have to be.
I have not watched this, but if I had to guess before hand, I would say that the key lies in two technologies built slightly before and alongside the Holo-deck. Those would be Transporters and Replicators.
EDIT: I was right.
Last few years I've had a hard time believing how society is portrayed in Star Trek, just because of the holodeck, and the replicator.
The thing is, with an invention such as the holodeck, we would essentially remove any and all crowding issue in cities. We'd have large square complexes, with "apartments" measuring about 3*3 or 4*4, or similar. The physical dimensions isn't really that important anymore. Each apartment would have to be hooked up to the power grid, but not much more. The holodeck would take care of everything else. Waste-disposal, hygiene and water would be up to the holodeck to handle.
The person living in such a square, would have the world to themselves essentially. Even if they're nothing more than a rat in a maze, their quality of life would be immeasurable compared to todays standard. With the replicator embedded, you'd have every luxury item to eat that you could think of, and damn near infinite amount of it. You could live on an open grassfield, with nothing around you for miles. If you could sync your holodeck with others, you can go on trips with your friends.
The only questions I have in this scenario, is how do you get workers to step out of it to build more, and maintain the system, chiefly the complexes themselves, but also the power grid and other systems I don't think of at the moment. Perhaps through some kind of forced community service, like jury duty, where you have to pitch in, for a certain amount of time, when called.
It’s an easy solution, the government doesn’t allow people to live in holodecks so it’s not an issue. Star Trek has always been a fairly simplistic Utopian vision of the future but we really don’t know all that much about UFP society functions outside of Starfleet.
Great video! Keep up the amazing work!!! 😊😊😊
Thank you!!!
The Cage: If you can live your fantasies, it will destroy civilization
TNG: everyone can live out their fantasies
If only.....we'd save a fortune on holidays!
If Only, If Only...the woodpecker cried, The Bark On The Trees Was As Soft As The Sky.... 🖖🏻😁
@@SnarkNSass 🖖
Hello and I’m new to your show and really enjoy it. Thanks for addressing this topic. One reason I’m not a holodeck fan is programming responses of holodeck characters is not credible to me. Each character with myriad of responses to each changing situation - doubt technology even this far out in the future could fathom this.
@ 13:22 The Bong Farr ritual
Why was Geordi looking at the doodle upside down at 16:27
It had to be the right way round for the camera and the director wanted him to flip it along that axis
Like a Jackson Pollock painting.
So Tyler I was wondering what you think is going on in Picard S03. Who is the big baddie behind the scenes? So far a pah-wraith sounds possible however I have no way to connect Picard to DS9. On the other hand there are some scenes that hint a Borg connection. Borg themselves seem implausable but maybe species 8472 given their traits could be possible. What are your ideas?
I should have known you wouldn't forget about TAS's recreation "room."
You could make something functionally close enough, but perhaps not as impressive.
As far as I'm aware, Klingons got the cloaking device tech seen in ST III off the Romulans.
Wow you still got this up today? I hope all if good
I had to use someone else's Wi-Fi to upload it XD
Well done.
Thank you!
We need Rimmers hardlight projector...
I would use a holodeck more as a function then a recreational thing.
You wake up and get out of bed.
Out of habit you stretch and bend forward to splash some water in your face, grab your toothbrush.
You spin around and grab your day outfit, as you get dressed the room changed again to your kitchen with your favorite breakfast ready to eat.
After you finished your food you turn around and do your work at home.
I always wondered if a simple "holo-object" could be created by combining of one of those bed-of-nails scuplture things with fiber optic "nails" that could create the image an object by using the fibers as display pixels. If you had fine enough "nails", you could alternate them to have some appear above or below others by using, say, every other "nail" to sculpt the object.
Perhaps you could do a video on why there is almost no CCTV in Star Trek. There's none on the Enterprise or DS9 as far as I can tell.
@@subraxas my comment wasn't very well worded, plus I've only seen TNG and the first series of DS9. I watched S2E1 of DS9 and there was some graffiti - no way to see who was responsible because it happened in a low security area or something. Might be recency bias on my part.
Honestly if we work out holodeck it will be greatest gift or most deadly weapon man will create, light to matter conversion what a dream
I could see something like StageCraft (use in Mandalorian for example) being used to start with - with a treadmill system. While not holographic it could be a stepping stone technology when used with UnReal. Obviously the holographics and force projection are the real target though and are the toughest to crack at scale. Excellent video! Thanks!
also appeared as the "reacration room" in the animated serie before TNG
Yep, I talk about that in the video :D
@@OrangeRiver Yup I just posted that too quickly lmao, very good video as always btw
I’ve always understood the Klingons received their cloaking tech from the Romulans.
Excellent video
Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to just have some sort of brain interface that can send signals into your brain to simulate visuals, sounds, smells, touch, taste, etc. You’d be in a virtual environment that FEELS real. That technology seems like it could become reality a lot sooner than replicators and force fields.
We can do the visuals of a holodeck right now. All you need is a VR headset and a treadmill. Creating things like character using holograms (without a headset) is possible, but there is no way to use holograms to make an entire environment (especially one that hid the walls). Replicating materials, and using force fields to make holograms solid is currently not possible. So we have the visuals right now. But the physical interactivity...there is currently no known way to do that.
No holograms beyond those little lights he showed are not possible. Don't confuse pepper's ghost with an actual hologram.
No way to block light mid-air, nor to introduce new directional light in front of real solid objects right now. We could get pretty good images that would never be able to get between you and real objects (for example, if you tried to put your hand inside a holo-box, you would always see your hand even when the sides of the box would be supposed to be between your hand and your eyes) using lightfield technology. And we can barely get free-floating semi-transparent old Star Wars glitchy monochrome holograms by exploding the air with lasers or moving dust with sound (with the later possibly being lit up with lasers or regular projectors, allowing for colors, but still would need direct line of sight from the "holo" projector to the object, and only allowing diffuse lighting, so no mirrored surfaces, and if for example you bring in a real camping tent, "holo" things won't be able to stay inside once you zip up the entrance blocking the projectors); in either laser or sound-levitation right now we barely get a few dots (you can see an example of one variant of that tech in this video, the bit with people poking floating dots of light, at around 15:48 ; that's the exploding air one I believe).
I wish this tech would be real,it would be so darn awesome :)
"Computer, give me Hello Fresh recipe 3927, hot"
Very interesting video. Nice work. Also doping...hö.
Got me hard 😂
Who's to say we are not in a holographic construct ourselves right now?
Occam's razor tbh lol
I like the holodeck better than I did; but I think a lot of the stories set in it are weak.I thought it was used well in the Bynars story, and in the Moriarty story, and in most of the Voyager stories in which it appeared. I prefer transporter stories: I think they are more consistent in their good quality. "I am not a Merry Man !" is a gem of a line in a weak episode. Worf is a gem of a character.
16:45 yeah, looking back, why would Riker have reacted that way? It’s should have been commonplace.
Would love to have a holodeck. Just a matter of time tech has to get faster we do have basic holograms. Now
some people believe we are in a simulation so like a holodeck. Also motion simulation can be like a pseudo holodeck, pretty close to one.
I think is possible with some less advanced technology... the background could just be a huge monitor like the las Vegas sphere but smaller... and you can create hologram but you can't interact with that...
Nana Visitor...❤
I have developed a totally novel Holographic projection method with a totally bottom of the barrel proof of concept that should when properly outfitted be capable of producing Holograms EXACTLY like we want from Sci-Fi. They would even have a mild tactile sensation since ultrasound is creating each pixel in a unique way never done before. All the tech is regularly available just no one else seems to thought of the idea yet and I am sure proper work on it( aka a team and not just my dirt poor tinkering ass) could produce exactly what is required as each part has fully functional technology used in other areas that does what needs to be done. I have created a single 3D pixel.... Now what? like, seriously, what can someone, who has literally no money to their name, no means of getting a patent and all that legal stuff to protect the idea do if they had the ability to prove the idea. Investors? Not been my style so dunno where to even start honestly. Its one of those things you KNOW could be huge but I don't want to become that drunk uncle telling his nephews about how he could have been a millionaire( billionaire lets be real) if only he got the patent for that made on TV thing before someone else.
What should I do? No one seems close yet. Closest I have seen is the Bead hologram where sound moves a bead and light shines on it but I do not require that. It just makes a dot appear in thin air and I sort of discovered it by accident but it made total sense after I realized what was taking place..
The Borg adapted to every known particle weapons, but yet a holographic .30-06 bullet could kill them.
VR isn't remotely close but people IRL have already lost themselves to it (VR addiction). It's scary to think how Holodeck technology would impact our species.
So what was that thing in the animated series?
I imagined a roleplay game that augmented your interactions with the holodeck space, based on your character's attributes and abilities...like, when I'm done playing out every sexual fantasy I've ever had.
maybe there would be laws governing use of holodeck
You burnt your Hello Fresh 😮