A Harvard team of researchers have developed a “flow battery”, a battery designed to store energy in liquid solutions instead of solid lithium-ion packs. By storing energy in liquids, these batteries should retain their capacity and discharge rates for well over a decade. The research team discovered that, by modifying molecules in the electrolytes ferrocene and viologen, they could develop stable, water-soluble charged particles that are resistant to degradation. The team's findings uncovered that when these particles are dissolved in neutral water, the solution loses only 1% of its capacity every 1,000 cycles - for comparison, a standard lithium-ion battery may last only 1,000 cycles in its lifetime.
Why would you need to do that. You either have an influx of energy or you don't. If the solar panels are just kind of working, then you can just discharge these batteries slower.
Vanadium is non toxic, non flammable and non explosive, unlike a Li-Ion chemistry. It can be obtained either by mining or from secondary processes (where metal is worked). It is mostly used because it can have 4 different states, call them V2, V3, V4, V5 which allow to store the same material in both tanks and avoid a series of issues.. V2 and V3 are stored in the -ve tank, while V4 and V5 are in the +ve tank. During charging, oxidation on the +ve tank will move ions from V4 to V5, while reduction on the -ve tank will move ions from V3 to V2.
It's actually pretty good. As far as I know from German universitys, they do research on a possibility to use ecologically not hazardous Liquids, which will also work as good, as thoose vanadium mixes.
Whitehorse Yukon Canada has millions of tonnes of the highest purity iron in powdered magnetite form contained on the surface ready for an energy application.
But you know how it is with german inventions they will be off-shored and the germans had the costs to develop but no benefits out of them. Countless examples...
It is a bit discouraging for a video produced by Harvard to do such a poor job of explaining the operation of a flow battery. The electrolyte solutions are not positive and negative, they are neutral. There is this little known law of physics called Coulomb's law which says that like charges repel each other with a force that becomes very large when the charges are very close together. Flow batteries handle huge currents, and the amount of positive and negative charge in each tank would blow the tank to pieces. If a positively charged material is oxidized it becomes more positive and if a negatively charged ion is reduced it becomes more negative. (The ions that are being reduced are actually positive ions that become less positive, not negative ions, but at this point who is counting?) Why is there a membrane there? Is there, perhaps, a flow of hydronium ions across the membrane when this happens to maintain the neutrality of the solutions? According to this, the tanks would have more positive or negative charge respectively after use than before! Did anyone with a high school physics background review this video before it was posted?
This video is actually pretty accurate. You got it wrong. Negative and Positive in batteries and in electrochemistry in general are related to their Redox Potential, that is the potential at which the redox reaction of that particular ion occurs with respect the the redox reaction of hydrogen. Charges and Coulomb do not enter in the definition, of course charges must be balanced at all times. So the Negative side will contain the ionic species that have a more negative Redox Potential, that in other words is the less noble material, the Positive side will contain the ionic species that have a more positive Redox Potential, that is the more noble material. Nobility can be defined as the ability to avoid oxidation/corrosion, so Gold is more noble than Iron.
I found your exact explanation in one of the research papers i was reading! Yes, electric neutrality is kept because during oxidation (ions from V4 are oxidised to V5? in case of vanadium), the resulting hydrogen ions pass to the other side through the membrane. I am no chemist, but this seems to be the cause of the safety this battery can offer.. I'd expect that electric neutrality = no heat buildup, etc.
@@Bert0ld0 None of what you wrote contradicts the point I was making which is that the SOLUTIONS are neutral , not positive and negative as is incorrectly stated in the video. What you wrote is not even relevant to the issue of the charge of the solution. You appear to be confusing the concept of the sign associated with an ELECTRODE with the net charge of a solution. The video refers to the solutions, which are neutral, as positive and negative (not the electrodes) and is therefore not "pretty accurate," as you claim. Further the vanadium ions in what the video refers to as the negative solution are actually positively charged. V5+ V4+ in one solution and V2+ V3+ in the other. In addition to the NEUTRAL Vanadium salts dissolved in each solution, Sulfuric Acid is often used as a source of H+ and therefore Hydronium. When V2+ is being Oxidized to V3+ a Hydronium ion departs this solution across the membrane to the solution where V5+ is being reduced to V4+. This, together with the negative spectator ions from the original vanadium salts, maintains the net neutrality of both solutions.
Positive and negative solutions follow a sign convention, as seen in any battery system with positive and negative electrodes. In redox flow batteries, solutions are the ones that store the charge, and they are thus labeled as positive or negative, or more specifically, as catholyte and anolyte. Electroactive material could be positive or negative on both sides, or it might exhibit negative and positive states on each side during both the discharge and charged states. For example, in VRFB, all redox states of vanadium are positive in both tanks all the time, yet we still refer to one side as negative and the other as positive. In all these cases, you are right; the actual nature of the compound (solution) remains neutral due to the counter ion that balances the charge (otherwise, lightning would strike).
![[ไฮไลต์] เจ้าฟ่าง ธีรพงศ์ ศิลาชัย "คว้าเหรียญเงิน" ยกน้ำหนักชาย รุ่น 61kg | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/981lYv1AwKk/mqdefault.jpg)
Batteries are the limiting factor for energy storage. So every enhancement is very valuable!
Excellent!
Very cool!
Have you created a company under this patent yet? Would love to follow its progress, and great work gentlemen!
hello, thank you for the video....
i am little confused...plz help me
Negetive side to Positive side is called oxidation..??? or Reduction...????
A Harvard team of researchers have developed a “flow battery”, a battery designed to store energy in liquid solutions instead of solid lithium-ion packs. By storing energy in liquids, these batteries should retain their capacity and discharge rates for well over a decade.
The research team discovered that, by modifying molecules in the electrolytes ferrocene and viologen, they could develop stable, water-soluble charged particles that are resistant to degradation. The team's findings uncovered that when these particles are dissolved in neutral water, the solution loses only 1% of its capacity every 1,000 cycles - for comparison, a standard lithium-ion battery may last only 1,000 cycles in its lifetime.
Have they made any progress?
Yes please
can you simultaneously charge and discharge?
Why would you need to do that. You either have an influx of energy or you don't. If the solar panels are just kind of working, then you can just discharge these batteries slower.
Nice, short video. Why is the element vnadium used? Why not lithium, copper or aluminium?
Vanadium is non toxic, non flammable and non explosive, unlike a Li-Ion chemistry. It can be obtained either by mining or from secondary processes (where metal is worked). It is mostly used because it can have 4 different states, call them V2, V3, V4, V5 which allow to store the same material in both tanks and avoid a series of issues.. V2 and V3 are stored in the -ve tank, while V4 and V5 are in the +ve tank. During charging, oxidation on the +ve tank will move ions from V4 to V5, while reduction on the -ve tank will move ions from V3 to V2.
@@mihail7185 thank you, now I know better
HYPE!
but how crap is the power density?
It's actually pretty good. As far as I know from German universitys, they do research on a possibility to use ecologically not hazardous Liquids, which will also work as good, as thoose vanadium mixes.
Whitehorse Yukon Canada has millions of tonnes of the highest purity iron in powdered magnetite form contained on the surface ready for an energy application.
I want one
Wasn't it (redox flow battery) developed by German universitys in first place?
But you know how it is with german inventions they will be off-shored and the germans had the costs to develop but no benefits out of them. Countless examples...
+John Doe -,-
nanoflowcell cars? Anyone?
4 years now. WTF are they?
energy independence ...a social revolution ...imagine dat---VERITAS...Sempre Fi..da u mao
It is a bit discouraging for a video produced by Harvard to do such a poor job of explaining the operation of a flow battery. The electrolyte solutions are not positive and negative, they are neutral. There is this little known law of physics called Coulomb's law which says that like charges repel each other with a force that becomes very large when the charges are very close together. Flow batteries handle huge currents, and the amount of positive and negative charge in each tank would blow the tank to pieces. If a positively charged material is oxidized it becomes more positive and if a negatively charged ion is reduced it becomes more negative. (The ions that are being reduced are actually positive ions that become less positive, not negative ions, but at this point who is counting?) Why is there a membrane there? Is there, perhaps, a flow of hydronium ions across the membrane when this happens to maintain the neutrality of the solutions? According to this, the tanks would have more positive or negative charge respectively after use than before! Did anyone with a high school physics background review this video before it was posted?
This video is actually pretty accurate. You got it wrong. Negative and Positive in batteries and in electrochemistry in general are related to their Redox Potential, that is the potential at which the redox reaction of that particular ion occurs with respect the the redox reaction of hydrogen. Charges and Coulomb do not enter in the definition, of course charges must be balanced at all times. So the Negative side will contain the ionic species that have a more negative Redox Potential, that in other words is the less noble material, the Positive side will contain the ionic species that have a more positive Redox Potential, that is the more noble material. Nobility can be defined as the ability to avoid oxidation/corrosion, so Gold is more noble than Iron.
I found your exact explanation in one of the research papers i was reading! Yes, electric neutrality is kept because during oxidation (ions from V4 are oxidised to V5? in case of vanadium), the resulting hydrogen ions pass to the other side through the membrane. I am no chemist, but this seems to be the cause of the safety this battery can offer.. I'd expect that electric neutrality = no heat buildup, etc.
@@Bert0ld0 None of what you wrote contradicts the point I was making which is that the SOLUTIONS are neutral , not positive and negative as is incorrectly stated in the video. What you wrote is not even relevant to the issue of the charge of the solution. You appear to be confusing the concept of the sign associated with an ELECTRODE with the net charge of a solution. The video refers to the solutions, which are neutral, as positive and negative (not the electrodes) and is therefore not "pretty accurate," as you claim. Further the vanadium ions in what the video refers to as the negative solution are actually positively charged. V5+ V4+ in one solution and V2+ V3+ in the other. In addition to the NEUTRAL Vanadium salts dissolved in each solution, Sulfuric Acid is often used as a source of H+ and therefore Hydronium. When V2+ is being Oxidized to V3+ a Hydronium ion departs this solution across the membrane to the solution where V5+ is being reduced to V4+. This, together with the negative spectator ions from the original vanadium salts, maintains the net neutrality of both solutions.
Positive and negative solutions follow a sign convention, as seen in any battery system with positive and negative electrodes. In redox flow batteries, solutions are the ones that store the charge, and they are thus labeled as positive or negative, or more specifically, as catholyte and anolyte. Electroactive material could be positive or negative on both sides, or it might exhibit negative and positive states on each side during both the discharge and charged states. For example, in VRFB, all redox states of vanadium are positive in both tanks all the time, yet we still refer to one side as negative and the other as positive. In all these cases, you are right; the actual nature of the compound (solution) remains neutral due to the counter ion that balances the charge (otherwise, lightning would strike).
really? more like mit Donald Sadoway?