What caused the rise & fall of Harappan civilisation & how studies debunked role of 'river culture'
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- A recent study by researchers from IIT Kanpur and the Technical University of Denmark suggested that the Yamuna River, which once met the Ghaggar-Hakra River near Suratgarh in Sri Ganganagar district of Rajasthan, shifted eastwards toward its current bed around 18,000 years ago, 12,000 years before the rise of the Harappan culture in the area.
In this week's video column, archaeologist and columnist Disha Ahluwalia takeas a look at 'What caused the rise and fall of Harappan civilisation?'
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The rivers might need not depend on the fact of glacier feeding and tributaries .But rainfall patterns and catchment areas (eg Brahmaputra is mostly rainfed except for Summers ).
Still it looks like the drying of the river seems to be the reason for the abandonment of civilization(if there was one or transformation) all be it the reason given is different instead of tributaries shifting here monsoon is failing.
Nothing has been "debunked"
When she posted this article online, people had questioned her thesis using scientific papers that she had missed . She ignored a major 2019 paper which proved that ghaggar hakra was perennial , and yet her thesis says that the river culture hypothesis has been "debunked"
Whats funny is that the authors of the paper she cites themselves have admitted that river culture is not conclusively debunked and that other alternatives have been published after peer review
And yet not only did she not rescind the article , ThePrint actually made her do a video propagating the "debunking" claim
Third rate journalism , academic incompetence and intellectual dishonesty all combined together
Where did she said "debunked?" She is already telling that many sites are there on river banks, but new papers have come up saying that Ghaggar Hakra might not be perennial by the time of Harappa
this is why you never trust someone- who never take criticism and provide evidence regarding what they say!
The Print is intentionally propagating leftist/marxist propaganda
Y are u so harsh - let her express her views
It's an opinion you fool. Please don't try to look smart just by rejecting something you have no idea about.
I have been following Disha and her podcasts. She is doing a great job educating people on such nuanced cultural topics with science backed evidences.
Do not demotivate her. Who are you ? Are you a professional archeologist or a historian?
If you are an expert and you have differences in opinion, please point out facts and discuss objectively. But I get it, you won't do that. It's much easier to pass a blanket statement, look cool and receive likes.
Kudos to Disha and the print. This is first grade journalism with objective evidences. Unfortunately, it seems people in India are not ready for this.
So beautiful and knowledgeable. But she needs to be more structured in her monologues. Listening to her feels like an ongoing research with scattered thoughts.
Maybe should use AI as a tool to help in structuring and summarizing
Thank you. Please clarify at 345- 4 minutes. 5000 years old or 5000 BCE [if not later!] or earlier; as you have said both. Effectively a span of 2000 years is at stake?!
The ancient Aryans who invaded India at about 1500 BC were crafty. They were able to predict the debate of the present time, between the poor Marxist historians and the rabid right-wing ones. So, they kept lying about the size of the Saraswati River, saying it was the largest of all rivers by a great margin. Down with the Aryans, who invaded India.
I remember Marxist historians insisting that the river Saraswati mentioned in the Vedas was really not a river at all, it was just an imagination. There were also alternative explanations such as the rivers mentioned in the Vedas, such as Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati, Sutudri (Sutlej) & Sushoma (Ravi), in that order, from east to west, were located in Afghanistan or north of Carcuses. I bought all of that.
Now is the time for our great Marxist historians to explain, why the invading Aryans lied about the size of the river Saraswathi. They should pick my explanation, as it looks like the only possible one at this time.
There is nothing called Aryan , it the white ass licker theory.
There is no Saraswati river still. Duh! Cry me a river. 😂😂😂
@@hawkingdawking4572 Does not answer my question. Why did they lie that Saraswathi river is the largest one?
Even Bal Gangadhar Tilak, a Hindu nationalist, had predicted that Aryans came from "polar region" (this is close to Eurasian Steppes) just by reading Rig Veda and using his astronomy skills
@@prashanthkamath7437same as non-perennial river Mahanadi is named as "Mighty River"
Saraswati was men made river or canal.
Your or anyones hypothesis about tectonic shifts or river changing its course shows lack of understanding earth geography.
It takes millions of years for river to form, and even if it dries up, it leaves its mark for millions of years.
So called mighty rivers just dont disappear suddenly and leave no mark.
In short we can find all those men made settlements created few thousand years ago, but we can not find the river on which, it was created millions of years ago.
Rivers dont take millions of years to form. Thats some junk geology right there.
The problem with archeologist is they use lot of words to assert their prejudice. Seriously, you said techtonic shift,... Do you even know what that means? You are pinpoint exact time period 2000BCE and use the word tectonic shift. So Ganges not fed by glaciers? So where did all the Indus people go? Simply disappeared into thin air? Why genetic analysis, linguistic research and literary works show that Aryan majority occupies north India, and the civilization that lived for 4000 years simply disappeared , couldn't survive climate but the nomadic aryans who become good agrarian society despite the same dried rivers.
Let us know where you gathered all your evidences from?!
Himalayan Ranges is still tectonically active, and we have discovered and mapped paleo-channels for Saraswati via sattelite imaging and paleo-archeology.
I always wonder where dravidians of Kashmir gone??
Please make an audio video tabulated/slides presentation that is easier to follow. You may have fantastic information but it is coming out as a monologue that doesn't engage much or for long. No disrespect but you may get more sustained wider audience by doing above.
Disha resembles my classmate from college.
Whenever I see her, I think of my classmate 🤭
Focus on what she is saying , m0 r0 n.
Ms. Disha ahluwalia ji do u believe Saraswati river was and till exit ?
It probably tells us what caused harappan settle in the region: so many rivers, a huge expanding fertile basin and hence maybe waterway systems in Dholavera. In later days monsoon feeding the rivers might have caused occasional flooding causing diversity in crops. So what caused the demise of the civilisation ? Drought or Flood?
Not professional at all. All the things she conjured in the video are disputed. Even DNA evidence (which is supposedly more reliable than archaeological findings) raises serious questions regarding the understanding of the Indus valley civilization.
What is saraswati river system? Madam you dhould talk about only archeology, not about myths. Is saraswati river located?
It has been, update yourself!
@@abhisheksumanAS no it has not. Simply calling gaggar-Hakra sarasvati doesn't count.
:D audio works now
Hilarious such reluctance to even acknowledge there was river Saraswati flowing in northern India, looking to goras for guidance
i am dark skinned dark brown Indian come from traditional brahmin family , look at me how ukrainian and russian i am
Why do u think skin color stays permanent
If it was up to Sam Pitroda, he would call you an African or an Arab depending on which state you live in 😅
Most likely you or your ancestors are not coming from a pure brahmin genealogy. Its better to test your DNA.
Getting dark skin cannot happen over 1000 years due to climatic conditions.( Australians have slightly changed colour even after living there for over 200yrs).
Dravidians who are black in color live in India's tropical climate.
Brahmins white in color live in central asia's polar like climatic regions. They cannot turn black in few 1000 yrs. DNA mutations happen over many many thousands of year unless if there is a mixing between dravidan & brahmin individuals.
Its easily to identify brahmins by their color & facial features. Others who doesn't have these features are most likely not brahmins.
@@martianbigbang8580 Very uneducated. Read the most recent DNA studies. Every body in India is a mix in varying proportion of what used to be called aryan and dravidian. These were separate populations but intermingled later on. Caste is of more recent origin, and it is true that so called higher castes have more aryan dna (but still have a lot of dravidian dna) compared to lower castes.
Pit ro da will say brahmims n came from Africa.
I think Harappa was actually the Mahabharata period or the Late Rigvedic phase.
Good 👍
Pls dig ganga yamuna river banks. U will find geography of indus valley civilization expanding to east.
they found harapan site along the saraswati dry river bed more compare to indus side.
I can't open print in Punjab Pakistan
Harrapan civilizations brick houses hummped cattle terracotta pottery is still used in India today by their decent.
Is an exciting period for unearthing Bharat's history with wide-eyed wonderment. Ideaological prejudice clouds vision and robs the fun of discovery.
Needs more maps and photos to go with the presentation. As it is I lost interest in her monologue. But fantastic information.
The so called Aryans from outside now calls themselves Pakistanis...issue resolved.
So now we need to find the new reason for desertation of people from saraswati and movement towards ganga
"River is considered only reason for urbanization" , as if no other civilization rose in river banks. Oh, history have plenty of evidence that invasion of nomads and other culture leads to loss of civilizations , ask Mayan, Inca, Aztec.
Thank you for finally acknowledging the Saraswati river…for years archaeologists did not acknowledge the Saraswati river even though all our Indian ancestors said it was a great river…it is in our cultural memory, ingrained ❤
It is stupid to reject river valley culture just to satisfy your closed mind in regards to bias towards Sanathan Dharma.
Right…the mahabharata evidence fits in with the dates..saraswati had partially dried up around 8000 yrs ago…that coincides with shutatdri separating..
Good video. Need professional history videos like this more on internet instead of politically motivated videos that overwhelm nowadays
Not professional at all. All the things she conjured in the video are disputed. Even DNA evidence contradicts much of the current understanding of the Indus valley civilization.
@@sankalp6872 everything is disputed, okay.
But here she showcased new research about how the Ghaggar Hakra river might have stopped being perennial before IVC came up.
Wow...we can hear her, and its legible 🤗
Thanks you print for getting some good 🎤 mic.... Such a pleasure to the ears....
gaggar-hakra represents the larger Sarasvati river system? How does she say that? The fact that she is using Gaggar-Hakra and sarasvati interchangeably only smells of toeing some religious ideology to try and equate harappan civilisation to vedic people rather than objective pursuit of archeology.
You are also using the same colonial and Marxist logic to dismiss her
@@Viraj911 What is this colonial and marxist 'logic' that you refer to?
Better to call it the Saraswati Valley Civilization and not Indus Valley civilization or Harappan Civilization.
Nehru was responsible according to BJP pundits.
Gagghar hakhra, which has always😂 been a seasonal, monsoon fed river, is an Archeological site and part of the Indus Valley river system
The Saraswati is a Mythological non- existent river of Vedic Origins, evident from 100AD,with the practice of Endogamy and the Caste System.
In reality the population, including the Steppe ancestry and the native (AASI) Hunter gatherers, were extensively mixed and indistinguishable and is now known as the ANI
Trying to associate IVC with the Saraswati river is mixing Archeology, and Mythology , misleading information
Chariots are from the iron age, 1200bc to 500bc same as the advent of the Vedic culture, the Vedas, Endogamy, Saraswati river. Caste system and other associated factors.
The nomadic Steppe Pastoralist entered the indo gangetic plain in 1500 bc, subdued and exploited the native hunter gatherers including indiscriminate, unregulated unrestricted co- habitation over 2000 years.This extensive undesirable practise remained uninhibited for so long,that the resulting genetically homogenous indistinguishable population with Steppe ancestry has come to be commonly known as ANI ( ancestral North Indians).
@@IvvanirA research conducted by Physics Laboratory Laboratory, Ahmedabad in collaboration with IIT Bombay clearly shows that there flowed a great river from Himalayas to North West India and Pakistan. Your logic is flawed
@@IvvanirArcheology clearly indicates that there was no Major conflict during 1800 - 500 BCE . So much for Aryan Migration
You mean invasion. Migration is still not ruled out @@rajnidubey5786
@@rajnidubey5786No major conflicts, but there were minor conflicts when migrant groups came regularly. I still don't understand how this debate about Aryan Migration survives even today. People in pre-modern times have always migrated to India anyway.