Chatting with a Protestant Pastor about Catholicism
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- In this episode, Trent takes part in a Twitter Space hosted by a Baptist pastor who asks him questions about scripture, tradition, Mary, the Eucharist, purgatory, and many other Catholic doctrines.
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Timestamps:
00:00:00 Context of the Discussion
00:00:34 Intro to Discussion
00:01:15 Papal Authority and Papal Infallibility
00:12:25 Authority of the Church vs Scripture
00:17:00 The Eucharist Explicit or Implicit
00:18:45 When do revelations stop?
00:23:00 Authority of Scripture and Sola Scriptura
00:34:00 Intercession of Saints
00:49:50 Purgatory and Hell
01:06:03 Eucharist and Salvation
01:25:40 The Virgin Mary
01:27:00 Ever Virgin / Jesus' Brothers
01:43:50 Immaculate Conception / Sinless Mary
01:1:56:16 Essential Beliefs of Christianity and Authority
02:10:00 Filioque - บันเทิง
The more I learn about Catholic doctrine, the more I think “how very beautiful”
Were ready for u to come home! 👼😇
You should learn about the Bible. Catholicism is false doctrine.
@@G-ew9hv you should live the Bible not only read and study it.
@@essafats5728 love it
The more I learn about it, the more I realize how deceptive it is.
These two seem very charitable and open-minded, a great discussion
It was a great one! -Vanessa
The protestant pastor evidently had the protestant version of the whore of Babylon on "Roman" Catholic infallibility.
And imo Trent launched from the wrong platform.
These apologists need to be practicing lawyers before they get up be professional apologists.
If only all Protestants were this open minded and charitable. Praying for these two Protestants. Thank you for your Catholic witness Trent!🙏🙏🙏
@@johnmendez3028to be fair if only all Catholics to people on both can be great like here and not so great like the other paul for anglicans or William albrecht ive heard some complaints about from Gavin Ortlund
@@johnmendez3028 I have seen many uncharitable Catholic sites on here, that claim you must be Catholic to be saved. That is a lie.
Trent Horn is the most gifted Catholic apologist of our time. Hands down.
*Jimmy Akin side eyes from across the room
Joe heschmeyer is my favorite apologist. There are so many good ones though
Honestly, we're living in a golden age. I put Trent Horn, Joe Heschmeyer, and Jimmy Akin on the same level when it comes to apologetics; Trent Horn and Jimmy Akin on top for debates and dialogues, and Joe Heschmeyer on top with research and writing on a more topical level. I suspect Scott Hahn belongs in there too, but I've never heard him debate or read his writing.
@bigfootapologetics Scott hahn is a great speaker, and his writing is excellent. He does have a few theological errors as of late that need correcting but his books are all top notch.
@@jd3jefferson556 Joe is too condescending
Its interesting that so many Protestants have a problem with Mary, for me as a former atheist. She is the only reason why I ever fell in love with Christ. Her soul truly does magnify the Lord❤️🔥
This is such a fantastic comment! -Vanessa
The only reason? A good reason sure, but the only reason?
Fantastic and intelligent. . There's enough in the church on our lady to satisfy the most ardent objector .. If they would only look.
@@noneofyourbusiness7965 if someone loves christ, does it matter how they came to him?
@@themanufan8 Sure. Does someone believe that He died for them on the cross? Would that be an important reason they would come to love Him. I'd say yes.
I respect Wendell & Daniel for how cordial and inquisitive they were. Genuine hearts to learn.
Agreed
Just had this thought - thoroughly lovely men. So many times in these discussion Protestants try to lay traps for Catholics or vice versa, but I really feel like they were genuine when asking him questions and looking to honestly engage with the actual teachings.
This conversation was wayyyy more profitable than the debate form. I've been looking into converting to the Catholic Church for some time now. Trents demeanor/kindness has been extremely helpful.
May God be with you in your journey.
God bless you for your kind regards for the Catholic Church.
I think the Jimmy Akin/Jame White debate was very productive.
it was Baptists who first talked to me, lit the spark and brought me to Jesus and back to the Catholic Church. Please pray with me for that group of Japanese Baptist pastors from Osaka. God works in wonderful ways!
Wow! What a story. 😁👍🏻
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Come back home to Christianity, brother.
@@jamesbhollingsworth5452the Catholic Church largely believes the same key teachings that the early churches taught. You can’t say the same for most Protestants. Who’s really teaching “another Gospel”?
@@SquattRakk
Rather, the Roman church teaches practices contrary to God, the veneration of idols, prayers to idols.
Doctrines contrary to God, original sin, purgatory, transubstantiation, papal infallibility, papal supremacy.
Disorders abound, unfaithful and sinful priests administering absolution, spiritless men conferring holy orders, a bachelor priesthood.
In the sacraments, both kinds (bread and wine) are not administered to the congregation, but only bread, contrary to the scripture and the fathers. In confirmation, the salvation signified of baptism is not at all confirmed, but rather obscured, what is confirmed is a mere form of godliness, (the affirmation of a few choice doctrines), and no more is given to the Gospel of our God, except that it took place. And that the graces thereof are conferred only via certain ritual works, rather than the free gift of God received by mere faith.
Moreover, it is received from the fathers that that great city Rome sate upon seven mountains, is that same spoken of in the Revelation, chapter 17 and 18, that is, it is the great whore, harlot of harlots, drunk with saint’s blood and arrayed in costly apparel, (immodest for saintly women to wear, much less the chaste virgin of God, his bride and church), who upon the end of the world, is convicted of deceiving the whole earth by her sorceries, and of making drunk the whole earth by the wine of her fornication, and of fornicating with many kings.
I with the martyrs of Jesus, anticipate the future judgement of your antichurch, when it will be devoured of the kings which previously doted upon her, and the bottomless pit be closed upon it, from whence sprang all her heresies.
Trent, you were on your game here. This is what we need more of. As a former Baptist, I had literally never heard any arguments for any of this. There was a time when I thought Catholics didn’t even know or study the Bible(because why else would they remain Catholic if they knew the Bible of course)… so, simply waking these guys or their listeners up to that fact alone is a huge step..
Thank you so much for this comment! -Vanessa
Yes, I agree! I was a Baptist for 24 yrs. I believed every lie that was EVER told about Catholics bc I trusted people like J Mac and RC Sproul etc. I believed they KNEW what they were talking about. I couldn’t be more wrong! 7 yrs ago I came across the Letters by St Igantius and I was shocked!! The Lord led me to press forward and keep studying. By His Grace I was confirmed into the Catholic Church Easter 2024! Praise be to God!!! ❤🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻❤️
@@elizabethking5523 amazing, thank you Lord.. hopefully Trent, Vanessa and the rest in his camp understand how big a step it is just to have your eyes opened to the fact that their are Catholics knowledgeable about the Bible for people with our background. That first step made me interested to see how they could possibly believe all that they believe contrary to the Bible and then each issue fell one by one over time with the Lord’s guidance. I first discovered the Truth in Protestantism (particularly J Mac and sproul Protestantism) but have found the fullness of that same Truth in the Catholic Church
@@jambangoni, I am so happy to hear that this happened to you as well! 🙏🏻❤️ I rejoice with you! And I am going to tell everyone I can about these types of videos! 🙏🏻❤️
Most Baptists are just outstandingly ignorant, and it's really hard to be charitable to such wilful ignorance. Trent has shown far more patience than most, dunno how, but kudos to the guy. And tbh, same to the pastor for being better than most. I think all low church prots should read a missal, see how much of Catholicism is the Bible brought to life in the Sacrifice at the Mass
Trent and Akin have single handedly made me strongly consider Catholicism. Even when I used to disagree as a Protestant they always made sense.
I don't mean this with any disrespect but on what authority do you disagree?
@@shanahendricks9831 No worries. Key point here is I used to disagree as a Protestant but now I find myself agreeing because of them and am strongly considering joining the Catholic Church.
@@joelrobertsonmusic oh that makes sense I mess read sorry, so would you say that "being" protestant..does what to you to? To cause the disagreement. In other words what is the tangible cause to disagree?
@@shanahendricks9831 I would recommend reading about the Protestant reformation if you would like to understand the tangible disagreements between Protestants and Catholics. Main points of contention rests on what constitutes God breathed authority, and what is the means of salvation the gospel presents. Does that answer your question?
God bless you in your journey. I would also add Joe Heshmeyer to the list. He does a great job arguing Catholic beliefs (like perpetual virginity) from the Bible which greatly helped me
Grateful for Trent representing our faith in an epic and eloquent way
Right! Thank you for this comment! -Vanessa
BASED!! A Jimmy Neutron profile picture!
You got that username early. Gonna pay off big someday. 😢
@@ComiCrossI think it's Romantic Jimmy
@@MeanBeanComedy I changed it same day as the tragedy
As a recent convert to the Church after growing up Baptist, I really appreciate the work that Trent and the Council of Trent team does in doing these presentations. Im actually thinking about studying apologetics and biblical theology to help better defend/explain the Catholic faith and videos like these help so much. Thank you guys!
It's a hard vocation, but I pray for you to make the jump and stay in it. We need all hands on the apologetics deck.
This was a beautiful explanation of the Catholic Faith. As an Evangelical Protestant who is considering Catholicism, this video was extremely helpful, also I think just for protestants in general they can learn a lot from our Catholic brothers and sisters on what they actually believe. Great job Trent!
I use to think Protestants and Catholics were not that far apart, but for a few doctrines. The more I delve into what Catholics believe, the more I realize how far apart they really are.
@@DPK5201 Unfortunately, it really just depends on what denomination of Protestant that you are. Some will be a little bit farther than others but when it comes to the reformed believers they can agree with a lot of Catholic Theology. From my own personal research I have found numerous similarities when it comes to doctrines and theology with the Catholic believers and my own church's teaching and understanding.
@@DPK5201 Your comment makes sense in terms of the differences between individual catholics in the level of catechesis, levels of obedience to Church teaching and authority. There are no differences in the official doctrines or dogmas of the Catholic Church which is not the case in Protestantism.
@@alisterrebelo9013 When I listen to Trent Horn and Gavin Ortlund, for example. The differences between a Vatican II Catholic and a Reformed Protestant are substantial when you move beyond the facts of the virgin birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus, and acceptance of the Trinity.
@@DPK5201 My sincere apologies, I misread your initial comment.
It likely wasn't your intention, but just for clarity, in the year 2024, a Catholic who denies the authority of Vatican 2 is not a Catholic.
*I do agree with your comment just then about the differences beyond the doctrines you listed. The differences are enormous.*
The challenge for the Reformed Christian of today is, tracing their doctrines and rejection of other doctrines to the earliest Christians. For example, can a Reformed Christian show any trinitarian Christian writer between 0-500 AD saying that purgatory is a false doctrine?
The converse is easily achievable:
“We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death-birth into eternal life]” (Tertullian, The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]).
“A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice” (Tertullian, Monogamy 10:1-2 [A.D. 216])
BANGER after BANGER after BANGER after BANGER after BANGER. Thank you Trent for all the work you do. I got confirmed Easter Vigil 2023, you and your work contributed heavily to that. Thanks be to God!
God bless you, keep learning and deepending your faith, don't let RCIA be end of your journey in the Church.
Wow these guys seems refreshingly nice about our disagreements.
Right! It was such a fantastic discussion! -Vanessa
This must be a breath of fresh air for Trent after debating Pearl. The two men asked good questions, listened to Trent’s long explanations patiently, were careful to summarize his points accurately before pushing back. Great interview!
And they remained Protestant, in all likelihood. Which proves a point. It is always excellent to read and listen to and speak with those who disagree with you before making judgements.
@@DPK5201Proves what point?
Idk if that guy knows what he's talking about. @@freda7961
Dear@@freda7961, I think the point is the same as Psalm 133 -- "Behold how good and how pleasant it is when brothers live in harmony!"
It's always so nice to dialogue with protestants who are this charitable.
Im not that charitable. The CC is a child traffic ring disguised as a religion.
Trent, thanks for continuing to be an amazing example of how to witness to and defend the faith in civil dialogues for all of us without either compromising on beliefs or lacking charity in your dialogues.
Thank you for supporting the ministry! -Vanessa
Belatedly, a Blessed Ascension Sunday to all.
Ascension Thursday.
@alhilford2345 Follow your Local Bishop in this matter.
lol I just learned from my priest it was actually on Thursday last week
These guys seemed taken completely off guard by his responses. I don't think they had ever really heard Catholicism from an well formed Catholic before.
I think that is one of the weaknesses of Catholics as a whole, I am blown away by how little many Catholics know about their own faith.
It's interesting how that happens sometimes! -Vanessa
How do you attain salvation? Do you understand enough to make comments here?
@@G-ew9hv Yep! Thanks for asking. Do you?
@@letsdiscuss-withaustin5193 how do you attain salvation?
I don't know a better apologist all-around than Trent Horn. Fantastic combination of knowledge, disposition, engagement, technique, and irenicism.
Love you Trent! God bless you and your family. You are a treasure to us.
Thank you for this comment! God Bless! -Vanessa
This was an amazing conversation, everyone was super respectful and honest, and Trent's answers were on point.
I love how open and charitable these pastors are despite our differences. Trent is a blessing to the Church and is certainly one of the best apologists of our time. This is what christian/interdenominational dialogues should take place. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this.
One of the coolest Catholic apologist whom I admire most, he gives his stand in a subtle manner, God bless you more Trent and to all Catholic Apologist🙏🙏🙏🙏❤️
Thank you to all of you for being open and kind. How refreshing it is to see people having this conversation with patience and respect.
Beautiful conversation. Protestants kept me from God for a long time and I'm glad to hear a good conversation refuting false beliefs and discussing Christianity. Thank you.
False beliefs do exist among Protestants about Catholicism, however many true beliefs of Catholics cannot be countenanced by Protestants.
How did protestant Christianity keep you from God?
I've been following Trent for a long time, and I think this is peak performance from him. When I am in these discussions, I try to respond in the exact same ways. He's a big inspiration to me as a Catholic Educator and Amateur Apologist.
I think I like these polite and understanding, discussions even more then the debate videos, more openness and waiting for people to finish talking.😊
James White debate, Relatable with Allie Beth, and now this. You’re on roll brother! The Holy Spirit is using you. Praying for you 🙏.
I came to Christ in a Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky, so every respect! My journey since then eventually led me to Catholicism (by way of Anglicanism, where Jesus revealed to me His Real Presence in the Eucharist at a time when I was vehemently opposed to it as a doctrine). Trent Horne was instrumental in that, so this Pastor is talking to the right guy. I decided to learn about Catholicism *from Catholics* instead of from anti-Catholic Protestants.
Protestant response. Roman Catholics should learn about historic, classical Protestantism from those immersed in that tradition not from those who disrespect it and treat Protestants like second class Christians like Trent Horn.
I learned from Catholic sources and have for years. Never did get convinced. There are still large doctrinal sticking points. I don't understand how pastor esp. convert.
It is interesting, some people look at the evidence and come away catholic, others stay Protestant. Why is there a difference, is it because the evidence isn’t clear either way, or is there biases that some Protestants have that push them to become catholic or remain Protestant?
One question I would have for you, is if you have read the church fathers. Because I think that for some converts they read what the early church believed, during and immediately after the apostolic age, their beliefs definitely weren’t Protestant on some issues. Catholic teaching may not be that convincing but learning what the disciples of the apostles such as St Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John the apostle, might be interesting to look at.
@@aaronsmith5904 Somehow lots of formerly convinced Catholics become protestants as well. Not everyone converts because they read the church fathers. One such ex Catholic went the opposite way, after taking a deep dive into the church fathers, and he became protestant. That man is Steve Christie and he's now an apologist who has debated Trent Horn.
@@aaronsmith5904 I’ve read Ignatius and Polycarp. I think some people bring along their presuppositions which influences how they evaluate the evidence one way or the other. The lack of evidence for the papacy in the early church was pivotal for me. Some of writings may not have appeared Protestant but it can be said with equal certainty that some weren’t Roman Catholic either
After becoming Catholic after having been Protestant for 10 years I compare the two as such: Catholicism is like going to a five star Michelin gourmet restaurant 7 nights a week feasting on the most delicious and highest quality food and Protestantism is like Popeyes or McDonald’s. It has some good things but it pales in comparison to the full experience of a 5 star gourmet meal. The fine wine, the perfectly prepared steak, the delicious dessert 🍮. And wonderful service and ambiance. It’s the feast we all long for ❤
Can anyone who reads this please pray for me, I'm currently on a journey back home to the Catholic Church
Of course!
Thank you for saying refusing certain obligations or good works is also a mortal sin that puts one's salvation at risk. Much more open and sincere that merely "avoid mortal sin."
Thank you for this comment!
-Vanessa
Yeah. The mortal sins are generally linked to the 10 Commandments in same way. And not all Commandments are prohibitive in nature. Missing Sunday mass is absolutely a mortal sin.
@@justhair17 We also need to take our Lord's words seriously in Mt 25 and the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. There are mortal sins of omission described in Scripture that go beyond the obligations set by the Church mentioned by Trent H.
Always a great representation from Trent. As a Catholic, thanks also to these brothers in Christ for a cordial dialogue and for clarifying Catholic teaching without any bias or assumptions.
I love these two protestant brothers Wendell and Daniel. I could talk to them discussing our faith all day that I cant with other protestants. God bless you Wendell and Daniel.
This is the most productive Catholic/Protestant/Baptist conversation I've ever witnessed. Great job to all gentlemen involved!
Our prayers for a united Church are being answered here, hallelujah.
If by united you mean we all become Roman Catholic then you don’t understand what true unity means.
@@paulsmallwood1484 I wouldn't assume to know how Christ wants to unify his body. Can we agree, its safe to say he wants it unified?
@@savestheday6648 In a sense it already is unified. Those who are united to Christ are united to each other. Is Jesus talking about institutional unity? or Spiritual unity?
@@paulsmallwood1484 I would agree we're are all unified under Christ. But Jesus himself says in Matthew 7:21-23 That many who call to him will be lost along the way. I would guess, that more unity in both of the areas you mentioned would help these souls tremendously. And as far as boots on the ground goes, the more untied Christians are, the more Islam wanes. It's the Christians suffering persecutions in Islamic and communist ruled nations that need our unity here. Do you believe our unity here could ease the suffering of the persecuted Christians?
Dear@@paulsmallwood1484, it's a "both/and" commandment of Jesus, not "either/or", wouldn't you agree?
This was very pleasant. I'm a convert from protestantism, and I find that a HUGE number of the divisions between us are due to lack of understanding. We cannot enter into productive dialogue until we first understand our true differences. Thank you, Trent (and also the other guys for really trying to understand).
I appreciate.Trent and watch him regularly, but the more I watch and listen, the less convinced I am of Catholicism. To delve deep and be inquisitive has led to reaffirmation of my Reformed faith.
Do you understand the true differences between true Christianity and Catholicism?
@@DPK5201Me too 👍
@@brutus896 lol
@@BeauBeckwith I guess you don't. LOL 😆
Excellent and cordial discussion by all three men here. As a now Catholic who was raised in a faithful, God fearing reformed home and later became an Anglican for 15 years before becoming Catholic- I think brant Pitre’s books Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist and Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary are great books for Protestant Christians to start looking into these topics. Another book is Thomas Howard (brother
To Elizabeth Elliot) and
His book Evangelical is not Enough.
I learned so much from this talk . All so respectful and open minded. I am so grateful to my parents for raising me in the faith - I left it briefly but that seed they planted , was watered and lived by friends and family. The seed grew and I am now a devout Catholic , eager to learn and defend my faith.
Trent’s awesome. His explanation of the faith and doctrine is very informative for non-Catholics. There are wonderful books that explain all the doctrines beginning with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. God Bless
Great! Great! Conversation! I truly appreciate Wendell and Daniel for their questions! They showed they knew something about Catholicism, had genuine curiosity and asked brilliant questions that spoke to the protestant / catholic divide.
And Trent, hats off! If I were a protestant with anti catholic sentiments, I would say I lost 80-90% of my anti catholic views, at minimum, if I weren't on my way to explore the faith.
But I believe Wendell and Daniel are on to something...they might be considering the Church. Who else senses that in this conversation?
I really enjoyed this episode. It’s so refreshing to listen to dialogue between a Catholic and a Protestant, even more so when there is an added Protestant. As a convert Trent, Jimmy, and Joe have helped me to understand the Catholic faith more fully. I’m still not sure how to share it with Protestant family members who are not as open to understanding or even listening to what the Catholic view point is. I think I am however getting seeds planted that will eventually open the door to having actually conversations about things. Thank you Trent for sharing what you know and have learned.
Excellent job of explaining the Catholic position on these different topics. I think this type of respectful discussion can sometimes be more educational and impactful than a debate.
Thank you for the respectful conversation.
Thank you for listening! -Vanessa
This was very good on everyones part!!!
Right! -Vanessa
These are very polite hosts. Kudos to them
Thanks gentlemen for a respectful and thoughtful discussion!
I am Catholic and I just wanted to say, for what it is worth (and I pray it is worth something), this is a wonderful attempt from these three Christian scholars to BRIDGE THE GAP and BRING US ALL CLOSER together in understanding interpretations and what we believe (although some big words used there, LOL). I would like to say we need more and more of this so that we can TRY to meditate and pray on these factors and still know we are Christ's children.
The cannon of scripture is something that comes out of tradition that protestant accept.
Right???
@@jackieo8693 confused??
@wolfthequarrelsome504 the catholic church chose books and epistles that aligned with the traditions taught by the apostles. The book didn't descend from heaven. They were chosen. It was the books that needed to align with the tradition taught by the apostles, not the tradition aligning with the books.
This is such a tired and false claim.
You should ask yourself 1 question: if we *depend* on the Catholic Church for the canon, how did the Jews have their canon without your input? Where’s their “ecumenical council” or Pope?
@@Todd_Thinksthe Jews didn't formally canonize scripture until after the resurrection of Christ, and before than there wasn't a standardized canon
The two Gentlemen were very professional and you can tell that they wanted a good dialog and yearning to learn understand the Catholic position i applaud them both, I'd like to see the follow up.
I found the book by Brant Pitre, "The jewish roots of Mary," answers your questions about Mary very well. I have a lot of protestant friends who question me about Mary, and I found this book helped me answer their questions.
As a cradle Roman Catholic, I do appreciate the collegial, and Christian, dialogue for pursuit of explanation or clarification. That is, as opposed close-minded interrogations that I have witnessed.
I'm impressed with the 2 protestant preachers and their genuine interest. Trent you killed it! Will u do an analysis of Jimmy Akin/White debate?
Beautiful discussion.
@Trenthorn I just wanna say that I am very proud of you and the things you’re doing. You have come a long way with your knowledge. I’ve been seeing your videos for quite a long time now and the way you speak inspires me so much. You’ve learned so much and that is awesome. Its also awesome how smooth you can answer these questions with no space in between.
keep it going, man God bless!!!
Wendell and Daniel were very respectful and you can tell they were really trying to hear your side and they were coming to an understanding. I’d watch more content with these guys especially in a discussion format. I’d like to hear more questions from you, Trent, pressing the issue of some more Protestant affirmations.
Great video! I'm really glad you are doing these types of discussions.
More to come! -Vanesss
0:00: 💬 Discussion between a Catholic and Protestant on theological differences, emphasizing conversation over debate.
10:18: 💬 Discussion on the implications of papal infallibility in Catholicism and the possibility of heresy.
20:52: 💬 Discussion on the importance of tradition in determining inspired scripture and potential disagreements among Christians.
31:20: 🔑 Exploring different presuppositions in apologetics and the transition from evidentialism to Catholicism.
41:13: 💬 Discussion on the definition of prayer and worship in Catholicism compared to the common understanding.
51:21: 💬 Discussion on the doctrine of purgatory between Catholic and Protestant beliefs.
1:01:21: ⚖️ Balancing the need for scriptural basis with the risk of adding or subtracting beliefs in Christianity.
1:11:25: 🍞 Discussion on the significance of Eucharist in Christianity
1:22:05: ⛪ Discussion on the significance of the Eucharist in Catholic Mass and the representation of Christ's sacrifice.
1:32:45: 📚 Discussion on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary and the siblings of Christ in the Bible.
1:43:49: 💬 Discussion on the sinless nature of Mary, including the Immaculate Conception and its relevance post-Christ's birth.
1:53:40: ⭐ Importance of Mary as the first disciple and prototype for Christians in the Catholic faith.
2:03:46: 💬 Protestants prioritize belief in biblical accounts over historical evidence in key narratives like The Exodus and Adam and Eve.
Recap by Tammy AI
Thanks for doing that.
Yes, this was very long and worth every minute! I have listened to many debates on the different faiths, and also several discussions on similar topics. I find that the debate format is often a competition which desires a winner and a loser, but tends to affirm rather than change the positions of the debaters or audience (at least for me as a member of the audience). I also find that the discussion format promotes an exchange of ideas and positions, seeking to understand the point of view of the other as the desired outcome. Then the participants often have an "aha" moment! And the discussion format tends to help me become more informed in the formation of my own positions. Both are good in their place. But for changing someone's mind one way or the other, I find a discussion is so much more productive. Thank you so much Trent Horn @TheCounselofTrent and also to your cordial guests Wendell and Daniel for this wonderful exchange of experiences and ideas. I certainly hope you all have the follow up discussion.
The early church father said that if You don't have a bishop, alter the Lord Table, the Holy Eucharist You don't have a Church. Glory to Christ Jesus and May the Holy spirit keep us in Truth. Amen Malakai 1:11
This is the style I'm best at which is a cordial conversation back and forth I am horrible with debates, if it ever came to debates I would send letter responses.
I enjoy listening to both, but I prefer the conversation form, myself. I tend to be too hotheaded to do it well, though 😂
Haha, I love the comment about the letter responses! Sometimes it feels that way, though, since in formal debates, it is common for the opening statement and the closing statements to be planned (in some way), vs these conversations that are free-flowing!
-Vanessa
Do you know how wonderful it is to listen to an open, honest, charitable conversation like this AND not the dreadful podcasts from those who have no idea what the Catholic Church teaches and aren't remotely interested in why. We're just the whore of Babylon, the anti-Christ and Mary worshipers etc... So refreshing to hear the questions from these two lovely gentlemen and knowing that Trent will answer every question confidently, knowledgeably without trying to score points. Lovely
But the Council of Trent, if not the Counsel of Trent, says these guys are going to hell.
@@DPK5201no council has infallibly declared any particular man is condemned to hell.
This was a great conversation and the guys asked really good questions.
A very gracious discussion. God bless you all and to all the listeners.
I had to laugh, Trent you are one gifted Catholic and I love listening and watching your videos and interviews.Your awesome.
Daniel asked insightful questions. I suspect he may become a Catholic at some point. 🙏
Let's keep him in our prayers! -Vanessa
me too, Randy!
A very comprehensive and well elucidated explanation of Catholic teachings. Well done Trent.
As a SAHM, I just want to give a shout out to your wife watching the kids during this. 👌 This was an amazing episode, and it really taught me a grander response to defending the faith. ❤
Very good. Never a dull moment and the guys asked really great questions.
They really did and were very clear in what they were asking! -Vanessa
Would be great to see debate between Brant Pitre and Akin or Horn on widower/half siblings theory vs cousins! Everyone would learn a lot and would not be divisive.
What an exciting idea! Thank you for the suggestion! -Vanessa
This was amazing Trent. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching! -Vanessa
Such a great conversation. Honest questions and humility to listen to each other. God bless you all!
Matthew 6:6 is in the context of avoiding boastfulness in prayer, not about only praying to the Father. The open to the chapter is "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness` before men".
The preceding verse is 6:5 ""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."
6:5 reminds me a lot of the evangelical Baptist's praying publicly with strained emotion.
Pray for these future converts 🙏
We are already faithful Christians
Wow. Outstanding work Mr. Horn!!
Thank you for all the work you do Trent. May God richly bless you in your service to Him.
Good job Trent help our Protestant brothers and sisters to come home to orthodox Christianity Jesus one true church
Home is with Christ, not the church.
@@DPK5201the church is the body of Christ and Jesus is the head of
@@demisti-fi5307 agree. But not the Roman Catholic Church.
@@DPK5201then where?
@@essafats5728not an institution, but the church universal. Those that believe in Him.
Sola scriptura always seems to change meaning depending on how the conversation or debate is going.
Protestants are quick to ask a catholic, "Where is that in the bible?" Then you ask them the same thing and they'll say what Wendell said. "Sola Scriptura means that the bible alone is the only authority not that you have to find everything in the bible. You won't find the word bible in the bible."
Uhhhh.... what?
On the topic of prayer and worship. Go to the KJV and highlight every single time you see, "I pray thee." It's not always to God. Then go read Daniel 2:46. Worship isn't the same worship given to God or else Daniel would have rebuked him.
Very interesting point! -Vanessa
I love these conversations/debates. Please do/post more.
I loved this so much. There is nothing but respect here. This is what Christ wants. God bless you.
CoT at 6am on Monday... let's go
Haha, as someone who is on PST (aka Vanessa), this one was released at 4am! I was ready to go! Haha. -Vanessa
an AI image of the Pope, but a classic painting of Our Blessed Mother... I see what you did there. hahahahahahah
More of an interview than a discussion, but a good one.
"To keep us within the framework of what the Church has kind of always thought for the past 2,000 years". I'm not sure how this gentleman can remain a Baptist if that is his litmus test, but I'm curious to hear the rest of what he has to say.
"Does the scripture rest at top or not?" This is important for Catholics to realize that many evangelicals have and either/or paradigm. I haven't been a Protestant in 20 years so it's hard for me to slip back into this mode of thinking, but this is a helpful reminder of what that mindset is like. I'm reminded of what Lewis said in Mere Christianity (paraphrasing), That people are a bit disappointed and perhaps annoyed when they receive a complex and nuanced answer to what they thought was a simple question, but is anything but. Appreciate this video. Thank you
Catholic apologetics I find is far more complex than regular Christian apologetics.
It can be! -Vanessa
Well, there was that whole 1500 year Head start thing. The Catholic Church had to deal with and put down numerous heresies and had to flesh out a lot of the teachings and original understanding of scripture.
Well, ONLY or ALONE is relatively simple. God is not simple, Jesus is not simply or alone, and the Holy Spirit is ALSO. Catholic is Universal! We keep learning from our traditional Bible or Scriptures every day. Believe and you will be saved, obey God's commandments, and be right with God
Catholic apologetics is Christian apologetics. Instead of Christian apologetics at the end of your sentence you should have put protestant apologetics.
@@IoannesVII think he meant the mere Christianity position in specific.
Send these folks to Rod Bennett. Common accent alone will bring them into Church 😄
Its so nice to see a fair discussion and not nonstop bashing for a change. Great exchange of ideas
Love you Trent! God bless you and your family love from Vietnam
Catholic teachings is like parent telling their kids they are wrong but the Protestant child is in denial until they grow up and truly study church father before acknowledging their faults
We prefer to study the Bible before the church fathers. Then we acknowledge the infallible above the fallible.
@@DPK5201would be more efficacious if we could also live the bible.
@@DPK5201It might help if you got the right Bible first
@@essafats5728 their is always a switch.
The initial comment was about study
My response was about study.. Switching may bring satisfaction, but it is off topic.
@@MarvelGamer2023 I would come to my same conclusions reading the Catholic Bible, which I have. The problem to my mind is your interpretation
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Trent, can you speak to how you were able to explain intercession of the saints so well on this stream, but struggled with Allie Beth Stuckey - did she cut out part of the video?
I think he may have had an issue with getting a word in edgewise will Allie. She spoke way too much.
Trent likes to lead Protestants to conclusions by starting at common ground and these guys did a good job agreeing on the common ground. Allie was super resistant every time Trent asked a question and it got derailed
Really appreciate this video.
Great conversation!
Neat
Weren’t you in the live chat for the debate with Trent and Pearl?
@@ComiCross yea
Thank you for watching - Vanessa
Not all Protestants believe in sacraments. Sacraments have some orientation towards God applying some form of grace through the receiving of the sacraments. The ordinance view believes whatever benefit (if there is any) received is a direct result of your obedience, like doing good works or reading your Bible daily and going to church. The ordinance is the empty symbol view.
This was a well informed discussion between brothers in the Lord. Curious to hear the follow up Q&A session.
Greatly appreciating the conversations with non-Catholics.
It is so important to engage with those who have questions about our Faith! It allows us to answer the questions with what we 'actually' believe vs what others claim we do!
-Vanessa
Jesus: This is My Body; this is My Blood.
Protestors: This is not really His Body; this is not really His Blood.
How do you attain salvation within your religious views?
@@_ROMANS_116 You recieve and hold on to grace. For that you generally need to convert, to repent and to be baptized.
@@tafazziReadChannelDescription that does not agree with the catechism false doctrine Why does each Catholic have a different process for salvation and they never agree with the the catechism. #massconfusion?
@@_ROMANS_116 If you are thinking about following the 10 commandments, that's what repenting means.
The issue that confuses protestants is that you have hallucinatioms that make you see the words "only" and "alone" where they're not. The catechism doesn't say you only need to follow the 10 commandments, it says you need to follow the 10 commandments. Period. Not only, not alone. It's one of the requirements
Please take your meds so you stop hallucinating the words "only" and "alone".
@@tafazziReadChannelDescription why does each Catholic have a different process? Can they not just repeat the catechism rules of salvation?
Great discussion gentlemen. This was very profitable for the body of Christ. Keep it up!
Thank you so much for this comment! -Vanessa
This was excellent!
I really dont like the burden shifting on Sola Scriptura.
I've been persauded of the infallibility of scripture, and so have Catholics. But I haven't been persauded of the infallibility of church tradition or the Magisterium, whereas Catholics are persauded of this.
Therefore, since us Protestants agree with you Catholics on 1 out of 3 deposits of faith, isn't the burden of proof on you guys to prove the other 2 rather than on Protestants to prove the 1 deposit of faith we both agree on anyway?
No.
From this it does not follow that we accept scripture as infallible for the same reason that you believe.
Scripture is infallible because it does not contradict what the apostles preached orally, take Galatians 1:8, the apostle is not talking about scripture, but about oral tradition, or is he referring to the 7 previous verses?
it is clear that's not the case, more important than the infallible book, is the infallible interpreter.
The pillar and support of truth is the church, not scripture.
You can draw false conclusions from an infallible book, and you can attest to this when you talk about churches that interpret differently something that your specific church states.
the gates of hell will not prevail against the church
No, because we're asking you to prove the "Sola" part. Especially since the "sola" part is an innovation. Since at Jesus ascension there wasn't even Scripture of the gospel yet, but a Church, *changing* the authority to be "Sola" Scriptura gets the burden of proof.
Absolutely not. The burden would be on Protestants to prove the other deposits of faith are wrong, since the entire Church believed and accepted the teachings of the Catholic Church until the Protestant Reformation. All of the Church Fathers and earliest Christians believed the teachings of the Catholic Church. The made-up doctrines of sola fide and sola scriptura have no foundation in church history, so it’s up to those that changed the dogmatic teachings of Christianity to prove they were right to do so. Catholics still stand where we’ve always stood.
No, because Sola Scriptura is a modern innovation. The burden of proof is on the "deformers" as I like to call them, and their followers.