DnD Players Try Pathfinder 2E Beginner Box
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
- The time has come for us to try Paizo's Pathfinder 2E Beginner Box. We have been playing DnD 5E for years, but the time has finally come to give Pathfinder a shot.
Is this Beginner Box the best way to start playing? We give you our thoughts as a player and a Gamemaster. If you're a 5E player that is upset over WotC and their recent shenanigans regarding the OGL...is Pathfinder the right system for you? Should you start with the Beginner Box?
Wolf and KMo will provide you with all these answers and more!
Pathbuilder 2E Website
pathbuilder2e.com/
Check out comparison of the Pathfinder Beginner Box Vs the DnD Dragon's of Stormwreck Isle Starter Set.
• D&D Starter Set: Drago...
00:00 Introduction
01:31 New Pathfinder Player Impressions
09:27 New Pathfinder GM Impressions
22:33 Pathfinder 2E Beginner Box Review/Thoughts - เกม
Thank you @The Rules Lawyer for sharing our video again on the Pathfinder reddit! www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/10sze68/basic_liches_posted_their_followup_to_their_5e_vs/
Get the Pathfinder Humble Bundle today for $25! Includes the Beginners Box and the follow-up adventure
Thank you @matt spaar !
www.humblebundle.com/books/so-you-wanna-try-out-pathfinder-paizo-books
No prob! I appreciate your unequivocal "it's not harder" take, since as a longtime GM of PF2 I can't have that insight. I think yours is a very valuable take to put out there, and I was glad to share!
(Btw I had a review of the PF2 Beginner Box a year ago that I provocatively titled "The easiest RPG to learn" and I MEANT it!)
I love that they have included tips for game masters for making their own adventures in the box set it's almost like they want to give you all the tools to play their game
You really could just buy this box and a GM screen and be set to play for a very long time. It's an EXCELLENT value!
Paizo has always been like that. I don't know what the 1E starter kit was like, but 1E doesn't have a 'Player Handbook', it has a 'Core Rulebook'. The Core Rulebook has the basic races, classes, spells, feats, all the character stuff, but it also has a lot of GM rules as well. Get the Core Rulebook and a Bestiary and you have all the basics to RUN your own game. There is a Game Master's Guide, but it's more like a 'guide', tips and tricks and advice and ideas, than 'here's how you do it'. That was in the Core Rulebook.
I purchased this box a couple of months ago. I played games with my 7 and 9 year old. Granted they needed a little help, and they used the pre-generated character sheets. They were able to play pretty much alone using their own thinking. It should be noted they do play board games with me so they understand rules. Point being the system is very intuitive. I believe with the action system it is more of akin to a board game that you can customize. It is a very easy system to play. The core rules are easy enough to hop in and start playing with little prep time.
How was the level of violence? My kids often try peaceful solutions and they don't enjoy massive fights.
@@matthewhattingh3651 The Beginner Box adventure is a short, 2 session dungeon crawl. The intended way to play through it is to defeat everything you find, but, as always with RPGs, the players approach things however they want, as long as the GM is quick on their feet.
@@matthewhattingh3651 Its no different than most video games except there isn't a graphic representation of the blood.
The thing is, while yes your fighting. Its a dungeon crawler at its core. The fighting is abstract. Its dice throwing. The core of games like this, Pathfinder, D&D isn't about the conflict. Its about the strategy, team building and role playing. Ironically that was the hardest thing to teach my kids.
Every video game and board game you play has linear rules. You have to do A,B,C. With RPG's yes you do have to do certain things but many times there are the moments of what do you do. How do you proceed. It teaches critical thinking, which sadly is a lost art in todays world.
I cant tell you if the game is for you or not. I would suggest looking at some play through videos. There are some out there in TH-cam land. I will say that as the Game master, don't be afraid to change things. If the scenario doesn't fit your play style you have the freedom to do what you want. The scenario while 80% of people out there will play it as written , is simply a suggestion and a guide to help you learn the game.
We completely agree!
@@matthewhattingh3651 Let me put this way. I was watching VODs of a streamer taking 2 separate groups through the beginners box. In the Kobold section:
One Group won the first bunch of Kobolds over with food. They had less luck with the others.
The other group pretended to be a troupe of traveling entertainers, and communicated with them (barely) through the power of interpretative dance. When it came time for the boss, they started a Dance party.... and then rallied a Kobold Revolution as they Julius Ceaser'd the leader. Then in the dragon room, one goes in to scout, and runs back out. Followed by around 15 minutes of the party deciding if they want to risk fighting a dragon only ONE of them saw. They decided to leave.
So ultimately the only determining factor of how much or how little violence happens is how nimble you are as a GM.
To be fair to you it is easy to miss, the DM section of the Beginner Box absolutely says to let them use the rope and it becomes a near guarenteed success while still teaching the GM and Player the rules for climbing. Teaching the players how to climb in that safe environment is great, because it means they'll be comfortable doing it in more tense situations.
Good catch and thanks for the tip!
@Basic Liches I know the first time I ran I missed the rules for rope use (although I knew already from playing since release) being there as I was already looking ahead at the next encounter.
Yeah, all the fear about pathfinder being crunchy and complicated is a leftover relic of the pathfinder 1e days, where yes, it was in fact dense and crunchy enough to scare away a mathematician, but pathfinder 2 really turned the game around. It is, I think, a perfect balance between crunch and simplicity now.
We couldn't agree more! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Yea everyonewho says 2e is crunchy has propably only tried 1e or watch the 2 very bad YT videos.
pathfinder 1e isn't so bad if you came to it from D&D3.5. none of the players in my group are mathematicians (or even all that good at math) but have little to no trouble interpreting their charsheets and the modifiers they can or can't apply
admittedly alot of people prefer the crunchiness of pathfinder 1e. and it wasnt exactly too hard with a basic level of d&d knowledge.... admittedly though i have about 4 people in my group with a rough combined total of 60 years of experience w/ 1e so its... possible that i was just lucky.
Funnily enough there are some ways pathfinder 1e is less crunchy than dnd 3.5, and they’re basically clones of each other
Humble bundle has a pathfinder 28 pdf bundle for $25 which includes the beginners box and the follow up adventure.
I buy it 2 hours ago, worth every penny by a lot, also the Beginner Box a week ago, so, i have material for at least the next 2 years
I'm still waiting for the beginner box in the mail but also bought the full humble bundle
I'd donate the cost of the core rulebook. Absolutely worth it.
Heck, the $5 tier includes the beginner box and the core rulebook. The $25 tier has extra character and GM resources but the $5 one is great too.
@@juanavila223 Yeah, there's the BB, Troubles in Otari and Abomination Vaults in there. They are all set in/around Otari, so it's super easy to string these together. Makes for a lot of great stuff, especially if you enjoy Megadungeons you'll love AV
I've always said this, but many people have been influenced by the opinions of others without having tried to play PF2E. Now people are getting the opportunity to try it out for themselves and come to their own conclusions about the game!
We truly believe the best way to make content is to fully experience the game/system. You will never see us simply reading a book and giving our review without actually playing it first! It's more time consuming for sure, but we feel it's the best way to be objective and provide the community with our experiences. Thanks for commenting. Have a great day!
i was a PF1E player and got away from it because of life issues... years later my son convinced me to try D&D 5E even though we had sworn off D&D because of 4E... i loved PF1E before.... the OGL crisis has convinced me to check out PF2E (even though i had secretly been looking into it because of fond memories of PF1E) so now i have purchased the beginner box and am so excited to introduce my group to PF2E after we finish our run with D&D5E! 3 of the 5 players are new to RPG's and they are getting into D&D5E... oh boy, i cant wait to introduce them to PF2E with this Beginner Box... i will be GMing and i know they are gonna love it... and i am actually excited again about GMing... that's cool... anyway... thanx guys... great video!
Starting up a new system can be so daunting sometimes. Unless, you're super excited and stoked to share it with your friends. Your excitement, coupled with the ease of playing the Beginner Box will hopefully make it a slam dunk for your group!
Good luck! Not sure if switching somewhat similar systems while staying in the same genre will be a hard sell especially towards the newbies.
Hello again!! Haven't seen you guys in my feed but I'm happy you are back and that I'm back!!
Rainbow! We were wondering where you went. We lost you to the Algorithm... looks like it's back on track though =D
The "crunchyness" is a hold over from 1e, that non players that never played 2e still think. It I found it so easy to play and understand. As for the climbing bit, I gave a +1 equipment bonus to anyone that used a rope to get down or up.
I haven’t been able to play myself yet but I have watched a couple games. It is definitely crunchier than 5e and from what I hear the beginners box is a little more forgiving than say Abomination Vault. Definitely not as crunchy as PF 1, that is for sure.
Makes sense...we never dabbled in 1E. Thanks for the insight and for taking the time to comment Jimmy!
@@XanderHarris1023 comparing PF 1e to DnD 5e just doesn't work since PF 1e is Dnd 3.5e with a giant helping of fixes to it and a brand new setting. PF 2e and 5e is a much better comparison.
I will have to watch this again later! I started the video but then you guys went into what is actually in the BB and I thought "OH! I'm going to be playing this later, I should probably NOT know about what's in the adventure!" So I muted the video to let it keep playing through!
I'm excited to here what you both think about the experience, and excited to actually be playing the BB myself!!!
Thanks John. We don't actually have very many spoilers about the adventure. Only one or two tiny things.
I am a very recent convert to pf2e, and just ran my regular group through the first level of the beginner box last night. Everyone picked everything up so fast. Something interesting I've observed - the rules are very intuitive, and very consistent. A player asked how do you identify a magic item, I thought... sounds like an exploration activity, so lets do 10 minutes, and made it an arcana check at about the same difficulty most things are (DC 15). Later a player went hunting through the real rules and... it turns out that is basically exactly how it works (skill and DC might vary, but made sense here). I'm just highlighting this for 5e people coming over - as the lot of this is quite logical and internally consistent, so while there may be a whole lot of rules for different things, once you get the gist of how things fit together, you can intuit most of what you likely need very easily. Don't worry about learning everything, just do your best, improvise while playing and it'll work out fine.
This is amazing advice! Thanks so much for sharing Neil!
About what you said with the athletics check, the adventure is written in such a way to give you a baseline to go off of, if your players don't take a more creative route and just want to climb down you don't need to try to come up with a DC, if they want to do something more creative that is why you as the GM are there. If they have creative solutions it is always encouraged to run with that instead. If you need a random DC for a roll they want to try there is a chart of DCs by level. You never have to go with the roll the adventure calls for, but it is always better for an adventure to be written with rolls built in to help you as the GM.
Hey Tai! We agree with you 100% as the GM we would make the call to just let our skilled rogue (Merisiel) pass the obstacle without a roll, we were just concerned that the beginner box was encouraging new GMs to ask the players for too many rolls where they didn't need to be made. We would have just liked to see the game show a new GM that some obstacles can be passed without checks if the players take certain precautions like fastening a rope to a stalagmite, that's all. A minor concern for sure. Thanks for watching!
suscribed! i've been looking for going into pathfinder! thank you so much !
Thanks Cynthia. As we continue our Pathfinder journey will be sure to share our thoughts with the community!
converting to pathfinder as a GM im finding it SO SO easy to run pathfinder and it fixes all my hang ups in 5e combat (my players do the run up and hit till its dead) and now there using the environments bc three's no opportunity attacked by default anymore makes it more fun to move all the goblin's around and make them feel more real
We totally agree!
I never really GMed but that is one of the things I really enjoyed as a player moving from Pathfinder 1E too. See in 1E you got a move action, and an action action, and both together were a full action. The issue with that is that anything that attacks more than once is automatically considered a full action. Flurry of Blows from the monk? Full action. You're dual wielding? Full action. Your Attack Bonus became high enough to allow you a second attack? Full action. And in a full action you couldn't do ANYTHING else because it used up your normal and move action. And pretty much all the good actions were full actions so the combat usually became this "bashing action figures together" where people just stood rooted in place, rolled a bunch of dice for all their different attacks, and then bashed into each other until one side keeled over. Which made battles EXTREMELY static. I think we had a really cool action mid-combat once where our goblin used a hookshot to climb a flying wyvern. Apart from that it really mostly was people standing there until someone died.
2E with the action economy and heavily punishing doing the same thing multiple times really helps a ton with that because now people do move a ton, people try to gain the advantage and do things like grappling (which was a nightmare in 1E) or disarming more. Because now it makes sense to do these things! Because they are ONE action instead of your ENTIRE TURN like in 1E.
The two of you must be GREAT poker players, when the intro played out, I couldn't pick up any 'tells' as to whether you saw pathfinder 2e as a realistic alternative to D&D5e or not (I have my own views on this, won't divulge but I'm currently saving a little cash on a certain 'subscription' I'm no longer paying...). I've played in a pathfinder campaign, and REALLY enjoyed the freedom the system gives the player to gradually evolve their character development in interesting directions. 5e is still a great system for superheroic fantasy campaigns, but Pathfinder, to me, provides a slightly more grounded feel to my adventures. Thanks for another well-considered system review, looking forward to more vids!
We were really surprised at how easy and how much all of our players enjoyed PF2E. It's a great alternative to 5E...especially if you enjoy character customization and clear/precise rules.
I very much appreciate you guys hitting on the fact that 2e really isn't much crunchier than 5e. Are there more rules? Yep but those rules are just like homebrew you add for systems that are outright missing in 5e, not necessary things you need to know if you're not going to use those options. Is there more math? Sure. But 90% of it you figure out when you level and then don't really touch it again, in combat you're usually only working with 2 numbers and maybe a small +/- 1-2 modifier. On top of all this the 3 action economy is actually EASIER to grasp than the standard/move/bonus of 5e and leaves for more intuitive play, the only people who I see actually struggle when they play are those that get option paralysis.
It was always frustrating to hear people who hadn't ever played pathfinder 2e complain about how complicated and overly crunchy it was when it really isn't that much more than 5e.
Totally agree with your assessment DBL!
Great review guys, pathfinder 2e has been a blast for me so far. Both on the player and GM side
We can't wait to keep playing!
Welcome to the better game! Pathfinder 2e is better designed than 5e. The rules are clear, no ambiguity, no weird exceptions to every rule.... A far, far better designed system and the Beginner Box is excellent!
Great to see some acknowledgement of the excellent Pathbuilder 2 app as well!
Thanks for the comments and thanks for watching. We're excited to dive deeper into PF2E!
Man it's cool to hear you guys had such a positive experience with Pathfinder.
Thanks for the great recap of your experiences as a player and as a new GM. Very helpful for us DnD DMs who are afraid of any other system!
Thanks so much Michael!
As a forever DM for 5e for the last 15 years, PF2e is my dream tabletop game. I can't believe I waited so long to pick it up. And its integration into Foundry VTT is absolutely flawless! All that said, good vid, guys.
Awesome to hear! We're loving PF2E so far and we will continue to make new videos that document our journey from 5E to PF2E. Thanks for watching and dropping us a comment!
Sounds like it was a hit! Hope to hear about more of your Pathfinder 2 adventures in the future.
Absolutely! We can't wait to share them with the community.
I've run this 3 times now, with a 4th potentially coming up. It is excellent. I don't find it too heavy and am beginning to dislike people playing up that it's rules heavy or too crunchy for all but the most hard-core of gamers.
Awesome to hear. Yeah, I think people forget how many rules and intricacies 5E has. It's not a simple game (especially compared to OSR options). However, so many people already know the rules...we just forget the awkward learning stages that happened years ago!
I’m so glad you guys are enjoying this. It’s great fun watching your review.
I will admit I’m jealous of anyone who gets to play ttrpgs so much so often that they need to switch systems because wizards pissed them off.
I play once every 3 weeks or so with players who are basically beginners. (1/5 has any experience and likes to read the rules. Everyone else needs me to proofread their character sheet when they level to make sure they did everything they need to.) I on the other hand am a huge enthusiast so I have most of the rules expansions and adventures sitting on my bookshelf.
Because of those factors, I could play for another decade without spending another nickel on WoTC products. I quit my D&D beyond in solidarity with 3rd party creators, but to be honest I don’t own any 3rd party content. 4/5 of my players wouldn’t actually know what a kobold was if I threw one at them…
To be fair, we did start playing this before WotC decided to lose their minds lol. Also, we just like trying new systems. We're glad people seem to be receptive to other TTRPG other than 5E on TH-cam. We want to cover 5E, PF2E, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Call of the Cthulhu, Monster of the Week, and so much more!
As always, thanks for taking the time to watch and share your thoughts with us Gordon!
Awesome Video! if you are liking GMing Pathfinder already because of the beginner box, wait till you try building your own encounters! A "CR" system that works and is easy to use?!
Also doesn't it say in the adventure that if the players remember to use their rope while climbing down the DC goes down to 10 instead of 15?
Very much looking forward to an encounter system that actually works lol.
We DID lower the DC down to 10 with the rope. Our rogue kept failing lol. They had like a 95% of succeeding and failed 4 or 5 times in a row. It become a running gag that the old ass wizard was more athletic than the acrobatic rogue!
You can still use the Crit/Fumble decks, just use them on nat 20's and nat 1's.
Good call Wade. Thanks for the comment.
And of course as with any PnP: If you don't like a rule, make your own! If you like Crit/Fumble decks better than what the game provides, just use those instead. Who's gonna stop you?
I’ve been waiting for this vid
We're so excited to finally get it out there!
what ive found as an experienced 5e gm going to pf2e is because of the critical success +10 rule players are always wanting to stack buffs and debuffs against the enemies to setup the hard hitters in the party it fosters teamplay in a way 5e just doesnt and as a gm im more interested in combat with pf2e, 5e i felt combat was just a time sync but with pf2 its enjoyable for me as a gm to spectate what they are going to do and how they are going to tactically help each other overcome the threat. way more exciting for me and fun to throw stuff at them.
This is awesome feedback. We can't wait to dive deeper and keep leveling up our knowledge in PF2E!
@@BasicLiches and i look forward to you diving into it deeper :)
Been eyeing this set for a while now, chose Starfinder instead, but this video definitely leaned me to getting this as well
If the Starfinder set is anything like this Beginner Box...you'll have a great time. Paizo seems to go above and beyond with their products.
You hit the nail on the head for me on 5th. It was hard to make a unique character in 5th, we went back to 3.5. I played 1st ed PF, but I think you have convinced me to at least check out this box set. Cheers!
It's a wonderful product and a great introduction to the PF2E system! Thanks for taking the time to comment and watch out video!
I love that I can roll all dice (except for private checks on players’ behalf) in the open with this system. I’m finding that I can rely on the balance in this game to be consistent enough to never fudge.
We always roll in front of the screen (except for secret rolls), but glad PF is making you more comfortable with that style of play. It's super freeing and helps bring about more emergent storytelling/gameplay. Thanks for the comment and for watching.
Our group finished this a few months ago and we all had a blast. One character got eaten tho lol
Sometimes that happens. Being an adventurer is dangerous!
Good content. Thank you folks.
You're very welcome. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. We very much appreciate it!
I'm a 5e DM, been doing it for almost 5 years, played 3.5 for years before that. WotC sucks hard. I literally paused the DM section and bought the box. The end bit just made me feel better about my purchase. Thanks guys, you rock!
That's great C.B.! Keep coming back to learn with us, we're excited to continue the journey. Our minds were eased by the Beginner Box, so our goal was to ease the minds of other players on the fence. Thanks for watching!
@@BasicLiches You're doing it right. The real takes on ttrgps, from both player and DMs, its great, keep up the good work!
Welcome to Pathfinder. Have a cooperative waffle.
Yay! Delicious waffle!
So glad I snagged a Pathfinder 2E Beginner Box before everything sold out. Whew!
Yeah ...they're selling out fast! To anyone having trouble finding the Beginner Box online...I'd say try to venture out to your local game stores. You might just roll a critical and find one in the wild!
I just bought and received this box today. I just finished the solo adventure and had fun playing. I hope playing with more friends can be more fun.
Oh, I promise you, it will.
TTRPGs are truly somethin else
Love that they included the solo adventure. The Call of Cthulhu Starter Set does the same thing and it's such a fun way to get introduced to the system! Have fun with PF2E moving forward!
@@BasicLiches I just bought the Call of Cthulhu starter set, I found it on lowered price. Thanks for the recommendation! I just started adventuring on ttrpgs and I am having lots of fun.
I bought this a week ago and I’m excited to run with my son and his girlfriend. This is the girlfriends first ttrpg. I was worried about making it her first game but I read the rules and I think they’re straightforward. She made a tiefling ranger I love new players that create things that are not the norm min max. Great video I agree with you guys. Keep up the good work.
From what I have read Tiefling is a heritage that any ancestry can apply to themselves. Do you know what she chose for her base Ancestry?
Thanks for the comments and good luck running it for your son and girlfriend. They're gonna have a blast!
@@XanderHarris1023 her base Ancestry is an elf. Which is another reason to love this game I’m trying to imagine a half gnome half tiefling or orc. Hahaha
@@theinnernerd2056 As a GM/DM of more than 20 years and a player for more than 30, I can tell you that PF2E simply has the best setup for character focus and customization that I've ever seen. It simply makes you feel like you can just do anything. I can also tell you: you can. There really are no limits to character design and any that might be felt are because someone isn't reading or just trying to think out of the box. If you haven't read the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide, I HIGHLY recommend it! It introduces the ability to have actual rules for creating your own ancestries or heritages and it is a phenomenal system. Much better than PF1Es and definitely better than 3.5 and 4th.
Oh and I will also say this: Only one other system has made me feel like I can truly customize a character to whatever I want and that is World of Darkness and the Trinity Universe.
I started playing DND in 1979. I still say dungeon master to this day, even though I play pathfinder second edition. And any game that I’m playing that has elves and dwarves, magic missile and fireball will always be D&D to me.
Good to know we're not the only ones! Thanks for watching Joseph!
I wanted to make this clear for everyone: only reason that Paizo calls their DMs, GameMasters, is to differentiate itself from WotC directly and nothing more. You are perfectly allowed to use Dungeon Master to identify yourself.
All the rules for pf2 are free online, really makes it easy to get started.
We agree!
While I enjoy 5E, I have been running Pathfinder 2E for my group since it came out, and its our personal favorite of the two. So, as a fan, I was thrilled to see that you both had such a positive experience with the game! Its so encouraging that many new people are giving Pathfinder 2E a shot. Thanks for an amazing video and for helping some 5E players feel less intimidated! One deeper thought...
Just to touch a little on the beginner adventure having characters roll for climbing... It is more of just getting the players and GM ready for the core book. As you get further into the game, the core rules as well as the optional GM's guide will definitely help a GM know when to rely on a roll and when to just make their own decision (like your example with the ropes and rappelling). At the end of the day, I am a big believer too that the dice don't have to decide everything all the time!
Thanks so much for the comment! Good to know about the core rules. We're slowly going through that big ol' book and loving it!
Yeah. In a way, Wizards of the Coast is the best thing that could happen to Pathfinder
Am running this next weekend for my D&D group. SO excited to show them what Pathfinder is all about! Wish us luck!!!
Good luck! I think you'll be surprised at how easy it is to pick up. We were blown away at how simple it was to play after 5E.
How did it go?
I not saying we all told you so, but.. we all told you so, haha. So glad you finally took the plunge.
Never been more glad to be wrong hahaha!
So happy to hear you guys had a great time! I just started running this last week and have been having a blast. It's been really easy for my 5E players to switch over. They are still new to role playing and are in their 60-70s but fell right into the three action economy with ease.
I also noticed how much it asks for rolls for trivial tasks or things that could be overcome with creative problem solving, so I've been personally omitting those, but aside from that only praise. :)
Awesome to hear! It's such a great system to explore.
As someone else noted, you probably shouldn't. Climbing down something isn't really a trivial task, at least not at Level 1. And the booklet for the adventure outright tells you that them using the rope will make the check almost impossible to fail. It's to make the players aware of the rules for climbing, so that when they're staring down a 100-ft cliff rather than a 10-ft drop. They know what to expect.
I am running the beginner box for the 2nd time for a 5e group that was curious to try out pf2e. It was so funny to see their reaction to the freedom in character creation. For their first combat, they also were surprised at how much more they could do (looking at my druid 5e friends) or the first time a Rogue got a critical success on an attack while the target was flat-footed, so many dice and damage at level 1. As a GM my favorite thing was that they all took the time to research their classes and ancestry feats, I felt like I was doing less hand holding versus with DMing 5e games (for example, class features or spells that use action versus bonus actions). The 3-action system was a total highlight, the first few times a little more encouragement was needed to get them out of the 5e move-attack syndrome, but soon they were taking cover, hiding, demoralizing, or tumbling through, even the exploration mode they picked up quickly.
The first time I ran it with a couple of seasoned 5e players and brand new TTRPG players and it was SO much fun and provided a wonderful intro to Pf2e. That group has gone to play numerous one-shot and even finished the PF2e Beginner Box + Troubles in Otari. I even homebrewed a tournament so they all go to try out different classes they were curious about.
The map included in the adventure is huge. I recommend you pick up the playmat that matches the Troubles in Otari adventure if you can. Particularly for an event that is planned (no-spoilers).
Thanks for sharing Del. Sounds like an awesome time! And yeah we picked up the playmat for Troubles in Otari. Very excited to run through that soon.
To answer your question at the end it’s because wizards sees people as the obstacles in the way of their (wizards) money.
Indeed they do... thanks for watching!! =D
The biggest hidden nuance of RPGs that no one almost talks about (and I'm glad you brought it up in the video 18:00 ) is how to adjust the DC of an action on the fly, depending on how well the players are describing the character's actions.
Looking for a hidden switch in a whole room might be a DC 20 investigation check, but what if the character is specifically checking the underside of draws feeling for a switch? It may now just be a DC 10 check!
Seeing all the boardgames behind you, I take it you guys always read new rulebooks. Pathfinder 2e is a smooth game and you guys can easily handle the crunch. After Troubles in Otari, get Abomination Vaults. It uses the same starter town.
Indeed...we might have a little bit of a problem lol. Good to know about Abomination Vaults. We've heard amazing things about that Adventure Path.
The way tags are implemented makes the game feel like an intuitive programming language once you learn it.
That's precisely the intent: allowing anyone to understand the flow of rules and consequences in any singular thing. The Traits system is quite possibly one of the smartest GAME designs they implemented.
“Why’d you do it Wizards? You’ve done and fckd yourselfs!”🤣
I"m a forever GM (D&D since Basic Box in the late 70's/early 80's up through 5e, Vampire, Mage, Call of Cthuhlu, and Pathfinder 1e). I was able to get one of my PF1e campaign players who was interested in GMing to run through this and I got to play. We made Core Rulebook Characters. I loved playing my halfling ranger with the sling staff and a big mastif dog companion. I built a character with horrible action economy (I had a reload ranged weapon and needed to spend actions to command my companion) and it was SO MUCH FUN! We are now heading into the Abomination Vaults Adventure Path!
Love it! Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to drop us a comment Craig!
In addition to the customization, and clear rules, I'd like to add two other selling points about Pathfinder.
* Product quality. Occasional proofreading fails aside, I have always been happily surprised by the quality of Paizo products. Durable card/paper stock and playing pieces; vibrant and high quality art; top shelf, detailed maps. Plus, the accessories (like crit/fumble deck or condition cards) and secondary books/products, are VERY useful - they don't just seem like half-assed products thrown out to milk some cash. The Adventure Paths are reliably well-done too, and I've always felt like I've gotten my money's worth.
* Incredibly detailed and interesting campaign world. Since it's a learning tool, the beginners box doesn't dive into it; but the world of Golarion is a huge, vibrant place, with deep lore and tons of very interesting places and cultures. Pretty much any type of setting/region you can think of exists to explore and become a part of. Players and GMs who decide to continue further with Pathfinder will have a LOT of material within reach to use for adventures & campaigns.
We love the support Paizo has for their TTRPGs. Looking through all the available books makes us feel like kids in a candy store! We can't wait to dive deeper! Thanks for the amazing comment!
@@BasicLiches Thanks to you as well. I was afraid my comment sounded like some cringe PF fan-boy. But yes - Definitely a lot to explore. Hope you enjoy the journey.
I'm a long-in-the-tooth TTRPG player (1977), who moved to Pathfinder 1E when D&D 4E came out. A lot of good things about 4E, but it wasn't what I was looking for in an RPG. Plus I had a mountain of 3.5 material that remained compatible, so I stuck with what was mostly familiar. Stayed with Pathfinder 1E for a long time, and relatively recently picked up PF2. I think they did a good job of lightening the crunch and complexity of PF1, while still keeping a strong, usable rules structure.
In a way, 5E reminds me a lot of OGD&D and Basic Rules. They also had a fairly thin amount of rules in the early days - and like 5E, the DMs had to make so many judgement calls and home rules to fill the gaps, that games ran wildly different from table to table. While admittedly over-done by the time it got to 3.5E, the increase in comprehensive rules, DID tend to standardize play across the hobby a great deal. This ended up being important, when it came to organized play and pick-up games. A more structured rules set, meant less of a learning curve when sitting down with a new group. A lot less of: "OK, how does YOUR group play D&D?"
I think Pathfinder 2E finds a nice middle ground, between having enough rules for structure, without going overboard and stifling creativity.
I have some criticisms, sure (most I recognize as just being style differences). But overall I think it's a very good system, with a wealth of material available. (edit for grammar)
The climbing parts are there to illustrate skill use, but you could also use them as an opportunity to show that creative thought and teamwork can make a big difference. Using a rope is good, but a rope with a series of knots about 1.5 to 2 feet apart is even better. Or a character who can make the check with ease acts as a spotter for others, or you tie a loop at the bottom of the rope, the stronger characters climb first, and anyone who isn’t strong and/or proficient can be hauled up or by those who have bonus to spare. You could even make it a group check, so everyone rolls and adds their results together against a DC that no one could have made alone.
It was always my understanding that the reason rolls exist for everything, because its a very reliable way to deal with outlier situations. Because a GM can always just dictate an outcome, or lie about DCs when its useful to the session, you're never forced to rely on a roll.
Another reason is that PF2 potentially lets you ANY skill in ANY situation, as long as you can justify it to the DM. Don't have diplomacy? Use Society to figure out the NPC you're talking to, and then Appraisal to complement them on their Collection of rare items. RP the conversation for a bit. Seeing as you're an Adventurer with an eye for exotic items, you negotiate a deal for the information you originally came here for, and cut a side deal where the NPC offers a buy/trade for difficult to find items (from their collection) in exchange for some of the top tier loot you find on your adventures. This in turn gives you the option to add some extra loot, or upgrade loot to something that may be generally useless to the party, but can be used in exchange for stuff they want.
This is a fantastic point that I believe a lot of people misunderstand: all skills in PF2E can be used to substitute other skills in some way. I love that Initiative is no longer tied to its own statistic and is instead entirely situational, allowing characters with better skills, other than Perception, to excel in a exploration-combat situation. I recently started a new homebrew high-level campaign set in Golarion and the second session, one of my players was able to still successfully achieve their goal using a skill unrelated to what normally would have been used and they felt amazing for it.
Hi, looong time DM/GM/Storyteller here. I went through multiple editions of DnD (AD&D to 5e), WoD, Exalted and Numenera and Pathfinder 2e is currently my most favourite system to GM. With my groups we went through Fall of the Plaguestone, Malevolence, Rise of Runelords (converted to 2e), Age of Ashes and currently we are playing Srength of Thousands, Agents of Edgewatch and Curse of Crimson Throne (again converted to 2e). In short: love the game, love the world :)
That's great Arcane! Thanks for giving us something to look forward to, we'll have to try out those adventures. Have a lichin' day!
Curse of Crimson Throne is so much fun and Rise of the Runelords is easily one of the best adventures ever made... period. It is a masterclass of storytelling and could easily be made into a film series or a TV series without even needing to add TTRPG elements to the content. The story is so rich and creative that it just... works.
There’s a little part of me that hurts every time people talk about the lack of crunch like it’s good, when it’s the thing that disappointed me as a PF1E fan. But I still have 1E to play and I’m glad 2E brings the world of Golarion to people who wouldn’t have played in it otherwise.
We always say that people should play what they love. Glad you're still loving 1E. The reason we really bring up the crunch, is because SO many people mention it as a hurdle to getting into the system. Thanks so much for the comment BeachGnome!
@@BasicLiches Thanks so much for the quality content! I can't wait to see your journey into Golarion unfold. I think once you guys see the extent of its unique lore you will have tons to say about it.
@@miasmacaron This is why it's my preferred setting, even when playing non-PF2E systems. Golarion is so well designed and interesting that I can't help myself but be inspired to use it!
Great video, 100% agree with you on the Wizard thing. Even for the video game Wrath of the Righteous I feel like a Wizard or Sorcerer. Yes there's spells I always use when traveling like haste but there's alot of variety in combat!
KMo had a blast as the wizard. It was so much easier to understand and use than the spell slots of 5E.
Yay! More Pathfinder 2e content. It's just an amazing game! Thanks for your review! Waiting for more PF2e content from you!
Our 5e game has been slowly switching over to pathfinder and other homebrew games.
great stuff guys
Thanks so much! We appreciate the comment.
Great job on the video!!! I have been playing PF2e now for two years and I love it. Played a bit of 5e and, tbh... got bored. I used the beginner box to start my campaign - currently running Abomination Vaults.
Agree with your comments on the box totally.
~Fritz
Thanks for the insight Fritz! We stoked to keep playing PF2E. Heard awesome things about the Abomination Vaults. Have fun!
Great to see you guys enjoyed it! However there is one very important question that we need answered ever since your previous video... were the crits as harmless as you expected? :D
17:00 - The other thing that happens when the players start to realize a crit is just 10 away, or a avoiding a crit failure is just 10 away is people start using that third action to boost up someone else. If you see your guy in the front is about to get stomped, you pitch in - even just shouting "go team!" and thereby setting up an 'aid' action can keep a party member alive or help them knock out a foe. That silly 'anime moment' where the hero and their rival are facing off against each other and suddenly the camera pans to the heroes friends off to the side waving flags and cheering pom-poms -- that moment actually has a game mechanic in PF2E.
LOL this is so true! I see this all the time in my games and I have to remind my players that they can literally turn it into a game enhancement for themselves because most of them are so used to other systems.
Good luck putting one on your hands! They are selling out just like Core.
Amazon still has stock, also support your local game store! Thanks for watching Ant!
Great video! I just bought my pathfinder beginner box!
The beginner box is definitely the best way to learn PF2e.
5e DnD players, you won't regret it :) if your mathematically challenged players will find this easy and fun! I got my Gf to play so swiftly, AND got her to build a character which she enjoyed too much!
1 con though, if you don't like making decisions, it can be tough to try and build a character, however they do provide a couple examples of character builds in the CRB :)
Great review. I want to play the Pathfinder 2e game! The beginner box sounds awesome!
Thanks for bringing this game a well deserved honest evaluation.
Great review guys. Makes me want to try PF2 even more than before. +1 sub from me.
Thanks so much for the sub and for watching/commenting! We appreciate it so much!
Great Review,, be nice to see the actual Gameplay, I want to run this for my group at some point, we rotate DMS (11 of us)
Some day we will get around to filming our sessions! Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
i personally love the Sheet Style from dyslexic-charactersheets, you can customize them. Very good sorted and easy to read :) Im glad i switched to Pathfnder 2e...no more greedy Wizfart of the Snorts
I've been trying to persuade my gaming group to start playing DnD for months, but they are really reluctant and have so far declined. Based on your review,I think Pathfinder may be the answer.
Crunchiness isn't a problem as we are veterans of Gloomhaven, Too Many Bones, Root etc.
I think the 'role playing' side of things might be putting them off, so the 'dungeon crawl' focus of the beginner box adventure might work well.
You said the action economy has a board-gamey feel to it, so again that would be a benefit with echos of Gloomhaven.
The feats sound a bit deck-builder-esque.
I might go and get a box and run through the solo mission a few times before GM'ing a game.
Thanks for the review - really helpful !!
For the obligatory skill checks like climbing, I would replace the regular d20/DC check with a percentile roll. Above 90, your character might fly up that rope no problem, or pass a +5 circumstance bonus along to another player... Below 10, something bad happens that forces the characters to think critically. Could be that a piton slips out, or pebbles/sand fall into a character's eyes, or they may just slip. Why? Because I love me some cinematic Drama.
We do something similar with a flat d20 roll sometimes. On a 20 something really cool happens...on a 1 something really dumb happens. Everything else is a standard success.
Everyone complains that Pathfinder is too crunchy. Well, want about D&D. That’s crunchy too.
They are equally crunchy, one is ambiguous and you have to fill the gaps, the other has a crazy number of options, you just need to make choices. Thanks for watching and commenting August!
Great video! You have gained a new subscriber!
Awesome thanks 👍
You're welcome. Thanks so much for watching!
Played the Beginner Box with my group on foundry VTT and it was great. It person it might even be better due to all the game aids that come in the box. Never played a TTRPG and the dice scare you (which is which) that's okay it provides color coded dice and tells you roll the green d 8 for damage and add your strength modifier found in box 1 of your character sheet (I'm not sure of the color and box number but you get the idea). In general PF2e box set is easier for people to play that have never played before that 5e. (I did the 5e set as well and it was more confusing for the new players at the table than pf2e was). Side note I have played TTRPG's singe the 80's so nothing was 'NEW' to me but some of the other players had not played before.
Awesome insight and information HarryTheFish! We came to the same conclusions after trying both the Starter Set and Beginner Box.
I'm just starting out on PF2, coming from PF1 (which certainly IS very crunchy). On the customization part, PF2 feels a lot more restrictive than PF1, but, alas, PF1 was INSANE. About 1750 feats and more than 2500 spells or what, not counting the 10-30 archetypes (subclasses) for each character class... I love making characters, but I can brood over one for weeks in PF1. So, PF2 might be the best middle ground :D
That's awesome Ju Ne! We can't wait to jump into real PF2e character creation, thanks for watching!
Absolutely! I can understand this fully as someone who GMed and played PF1E/D&D3.5E for many years, but World of Darkness and PF2E are the best for providing solid, easy to understand rules while allowing for truly unrestricted character customization. It might take me, for truly complicated characters with high levels, 8 hours? For a low level character? Maybe 1 hour? I still feel engaged though, regardless of the time taken.
I was already itching to get PF2E onto the table, but now I just want it even more. I need to nag my nerdy friends harder...
Thank you for this. I have to admit. I didn't get into Pathfinder itself, but I AM ADDICTED TO THE PAWNS!!! Just wish they would publish the PC Pawns again. I can't even find a set of the PC Pawns on Ebay any more. It's the only place where you can find all combos so you can find a Halfling Warlock Pawn.
I'm not sure I have any more shelf space left for more RPG systems right now and that comes after I've retired my D&D books to make more space for all the new RPGs I got in the past year, but Pathfinder is something that seems to be up my alley, as I've loved D&D 3.5 back in the day and still find it superiour to all the others versions of D&D. I'm not even disappointed in WotC and their OGL mess as I haven't bought anything new since Strixhaven and even that one was weak in my opinion. But right now I got heavily into Free League's games, Cypher system and Warhammer Fantasy, so maybe getting only Pathfinder starter set wouldn't be that bad. Dammit, here I just convinced myself within writing the comment.
Happens to all of us Vali :P. Enjoy PF2E! The BB is an amazing way to get started and I fully encourage you embracing the craziness. ^^
Ay yo, great review of playing the Beginner Box, probably the best one i've seen so far.
I've GMed the adventure a few times and I absolutely agree with your pet peeve regarding the rolls and have changed that aspect for a better flow of the general session as well as easing newbies on thinking outside the gamey mechanics.
Converting people through the Beginner box has always been fun and successful with this product either IRL or VTT.
As great as the product is, I normally don't run the Beginner Box with certain folks who don't partake in fantasy or video games but are interested in trying out ttrpgs they've seen in media as even with the simple 3 action economy and other resources can be too much for some people. Depending on who I'll be playing with, its a toss up of pulling out the beginner box for those seeking a complete experience or Index Card RPG to introduce the basic concepts of rolling dices and free form nature of TTRPGs in a single session. I pick between those two as I find 5e to be in a weird spot of not enough rules or too much rules depending on the players.
Thanks so much for the comment and insights Vicar. Index Card RPG contains some of the absolute best GM/DM advice I've ever seen. It's a wonderful resource for anyone interested in TTRPGs!
I've had good luck with Dungeon Crawl Classics as an entry point into TTRPGs as well. Thanks again. - Wolf
Just played pathfinder 2e this past week for the first time (the last year my group has been exploring non-5e systems). I wouldn’t want to GM it much, I don’t think, as I don’t like GM side crunch, but I thoroughly enjoyed the play experience! Great system. The inventory system, action economy, death and dying system, and customizability of character builds are all very appealing. OSE (basically B/X D&D) is my preferred GM style, but this fits better with my group’s preferences…
I'm with you...I prefer to run stuff like OSE, DCC, Troika, Into the Odd. I'm much more comfortable with that style of game. I will say that I was surprised at how easy GMing PF2E was. Still, I'm really looking forward to being a PC! - Wolf
Me and my group have decided to try the Symbaroum starter set, hopefully it will run nicely next week
That game looks sooooooooo good! Hope to cover it at some point on the channel. Have fun!!!
Just a comment on your example of climbing. As you get more familiar with the game you can skip those checks when your player characters get a bit more advanced. I usually only make players role if I know there is a chance they would fail. Even the most stealthy player at our table still rolls for stealth just to make sure they don't get a 1. It's really up to you as you get a bit farther into the game.
I would absolutely skip those rolls normally. My years as a DM/GM were telling me to do so. However, I followed the book in this instance, just because we were all learning. Thanks so much for the tip and for watching the video! - Wolf
@@BasicLiches I do love your videos! Keep up the great work. When you get deeper into PF2e your players will figure out that even if they roll a 1 it won't result in a crit fail even with the success drop. They will just tell you they passed. That's what we do anyway.
I am a very old roleplayer - started with D&D 1983, switched to AD&D, played D&D 3.0 and 3.5... and then came Pathfinder, now Pathfinder 2e. And honestly: I know no better Fantasy RPG even I have tried many more.
Don't know if it's been said already, but Archives of Nethys has all the rules for PF2e available for free. Combined with the Beginner Box, you don't need to buy any of the books if you don't want to.
Archives of Nethys is legit amazing. We discovered it pretty quickly and it's been a lifesaver.
@@BasicLiches Totally. AoN FtW!
@@bl00dywelld0ne AoN FTW!
Late to this. Nice review and if you want to run a pre written adventure that happens after the one in the Beginner Box, you can tie it into Abomination Vaults (Which is also in the Humble Bundle.)
I'm going to say this: I'm going to be running the beginners box for my group when our current campaign is out, so I want to make the switch. For the record, I've DM'd a grand total of maybe five sessions ever, and that was probably fifteen years ago.
That said, I gonna say that every time I sit down to make a character I practically fall asleep with how bored I get. It feels like busywork to me, and I normally *love* the character creation process.
So if anyone else is like me and can't get into the character creation, I would recommend trying to listen to some campaign videos to see what it's all about. That's what got me interested in switching...
That and the OGL debacle anyway.
I failed to ask this yesterday with my first comment, but I would like to ask y’all have exp with vtts mainly foundry. And if u do do you know ways to find pug groups for one shots. I’d like to start playing again but due to my location vtt will be the way I think ill need to use. And I greatly appreciate y’all’s true take of the game
Thanks Charles! I (KMo) have experience with Foundry! If you haven't already, check out The Forge here: forums.forge-vtt.com/ OR you could find a GM/create a lfg post in the pathfinder2e_lfg subreddit www.reddit.com/r/pathfinder_lfg/ Good luck to you and happy gaming!
I love how this thing keeps referring to the OGL debacle and the rush of players seems to have mostly gone back to 5E and so many of the reasons given end up being assumptions people brought from 5E and tried applying to PF2E where it didn't work well.
Nice!
Thats the cool thing. you can be like nah.. if they have rope and say can i use my rope to climb down. sure. ignore what the book says and let them roleplay out how they are using the rope. then either use a super low dc (lets face it... we have all tripped on flat ground before) or ignore the dc all together. PF2e is so much fun
I have a weird analogy for older gamers to explain 5e/Pathfinder.... Weve gone full circle.
It's D&D/AD&D all over again.
This time, AD&D is called 'pathfinder' and l t out by a different publisher. But that's basically it. Crunchier, but not really, more options, more flexibility etc
It's not an exact parallel, but it's an easy way to explain it to the gaming geezers like me that remember those days.
It's absolutely not a bad way to describe it! I've played AD&D and PF2E is pretty similar, though obviously less table-heavy heh.
About Wolf's pet pieve, I've noticed this with the few Pathfinder games I was in and the handful of actual play sessions I've seen: in exploration and during social interaction, there seems to be a tendency to rely more on skill checks, compared to more talky-talky with the occasional skill roll which I usually see happening in D&D games. It's a bit too early for drawing conclusions, but I get the impression that people are a bit lazier acting things out if they know they're going to doing a straight up skill check, while in D&D DMs tend to let you get away without skill checks if you do well, or maybe give you advantage on the roll or something.
My theory is that because the D&D DM is flying by the seat of their pants, it makes players a bit more creative?
PF2E allows for non-rolling at higher levels and often is much more about roleplay. The rolls are there more for cinematic drama than a necessity. Its only the first couple of levels that rolling is really necessary. Unless you are coming up against Extreme encounters, which should be quite rare, the players should always be free to as creative as they want to with their decisions. The game does not penalize you for it inherently and I recommend to GMs to just pay attention.
Ive sworn off lawful evil Seattle Corps of all flavors.
The real "crunchy" feeling is in Pathfinder 1e. I mean, it was based on 3.5, and many in the community calls it 3.75.... My friends have been wanting to learn PF2e. and I'm the one who has the most experience with 2e, as I started Pathfinder in 2012. Just wait for Starfinder 2e that is supposed to be compatible with PF2e.
I think this is something I need to try for myself to really see if its for me. I love how everything is tagged but looking up everything like climbing sounds like a nightmare. Plus things like circumstance bonus and deafen 1 and deafen 2 is already giving me a headache.
Climbing is only a 'nightmare' at first level. After that, there are skill feats that assist in making it easier. Also, a GM really should be judging the situation and making the right adjustments. Many times, I've found in 2E that the character's own total skill modifier often makes some checks utterly redundant and you don't need to roll at all. Conditions have a description and a number. The number identifies the amount of penalty you take to relevant checks. It's simple and can create some pretty dynamic situations overall.
I've never heard voltron being used as a verb before. Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about it.
Hahahaha. When the camera starts rolling we never know what might come out of our mouths...