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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
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This is an in-depth retrospective analysis of Fallout 4, Bethesda's 2015 game that has almost completely polarized their fans: Fallout 4. This is an extremely thorough, extremely extensive look back at the game, so make sure you've got a free afternoon before you watch this whole video in one sitting.
Table of Contents:
0:00 - Video Intro
1:39 - Game Intro & Character Creation
10:47 - From the Vault to Concord
14:45 - Dialogue & Conversations
27:53 - Elimination of Skills & Level Cap
35:52 - Concord Power Armor, Minigun, & Deathclaw
42:38 - Cities
1:07:34 - Dungeons & Combat
1:17:54 - Aesthetic & Technical Presentation
1:24:44 - The Search for Shaun
1:40:38 - The Big Twist
1:44:40 - Lack of Character Creatability
1:55:08 - The Factions
2:08:20 - Companions
2:41:46 - Main Quest Ending & Aftermath
2:51:17 - DLC
3:02:32 - Final Thoughts
Skyrim Retrospective - • Skyrim Retrospective -...
The Ideal Elder Scrolls VI - • The Ideal Elder Scroll...
How to Fix Oblivion's Mages Guild Questline - • How to Fix Oblivion's ...
Minutemen Analysis - • Why the Commonwealth M...
Institute Analysis - • Why the Commonwealth's...
Railroad Analysis - • Why the Railroad is Ev...
Brotherhood Analysis - • Why the Brotherhood of...
Why Nuka-World is a Bad DLC for Fallout 4 - • Why Nuka-World is a Ba...
If there are any other videos I said had links to them in the description but which are missing, let me know in the comments and I will add them! :)
**LEGAL CRAP!!!**
Not all the footage used in this video is my own. I downloaded several youtube videos and used their footage in this video. However, I was careful to only use youtube videos for this purpose if they were uploaded under the creative commons license. In an act of good faith, I will credit the people who I borrowed footage from. Here are the youtube channels whose video content appears in this video:
Duck360Gaming - / duck360gaming2
LordMartin - / l0rdmatrim
Oxhorn - / @oxhorn
Eirlaron - / @eirlaron
Gopher - / @gophersvids
FluffyNinjaLama - / fluffyninjallama
Joyed24 - / @joyed246
DannyRJFerrato - / xxdannyrjferratoxx
Galactic - / sdangerk
Gamer's Little Playground - / glplayground
Mad Kangaroo - / @occultfactoryproductions
GameRiot - / gameriotarmy
The Film Theorists - / filmtheorists
TheGamesEntertainer - / thegamesentertainer
ArmakeArchive - / armakearchive
If anyone notices their footage being used in this video and is not credited, let me know, and I will rectify that at the earliest convenience. Just remember this video from Matthew Patrick … • Addressing Game Theory... … and especially the part at the end where he asks people to give us youtube creators the benefit of the doubt if your work goes inadvertently uncredited. - เกม
“If you don’t want to talk to people about your son you don’t have too!”
Then later admits you can’t progress the story without doing it? Meaning no brotherhood of steel, no institute, no unique items or perks. Yeah, you don’t like the story? Don’t worry about it! Just run in a circle! It’s the same amount of fun! And I absolutely cannot stand making a psycho raider character, and having him sound like a happy go lucky, goody two shoes, soccer dad.
Obviously, if you don't do the main quest, you're missing out on a huge chunk of the game. But just like in New Vegas, you have the option of simply not doing the main quest if you don't want to.
Acerthorn absolutely agreed. And I’m saying to do that they do indeed force you to talk/care about Shaun. I don’t remember new Vegas ever doing something like that. Very much a blank slate. I’m honestly confused as to what you mean tbh haha also, definitely not trying to be rude, though I am a very passionate nerd
@@navthemammon2704 *"I don’t remember new Vegas ever doing something like that."*
Oh, New Vegas does indeed force you to roleplay as someone who wants revenge against Benny ... at least if you have the Old World Blues DLC. My Fallout: New Vegas retrospective video explains it: th-cam.com/video/T6Xp-Audx3w/w-d-xo.html
Acerthorn yeah man, I’ll definitely check that out. Now granted it’s been a long minute since my last Vegas play through, but from what I can remember you can forgive, and even sleep with Benny. It’s him who then turns on you for the second time. That to me is a lot more flexible than the main character in fallout 4. But I understand a lot of this is my opinion, and I can be a bit of a stickler, but I stand by the male voice actor having an out of place tone almost 24/7. Like would the leader of blood thirsty raiders really be that nonchalant? The dude takes me out of it a lot haha
The complaint is not the the game physically doesn't let you, it's that the narrative doesn't compel you not to. Sorry but when I am role playing, and the character(s) talk about something urgent, I drop everything and go do that. It later turns out that it is not urgent, and the quest will wait for you forever to start, but that's the dissonance right there; Morrowind actually tells you, you know what you're not ready, go do stuff and return later; Fallout has you only worrying about your son, especially since your main character isn't from the wasteland, and there's nothing else to cling to. At the end of the day I enjoyed these games (Fallout, skyrim etc.) and I've put +300 hours to each one I've owned, I've modded them, etc. I don't hate them, but they are not RPG's, they are fairly linear adventure games with a lot of extra stuff thrown in between.
I like to joke that Bethesda will one day feature photoreaistic graphics, and have three stats: Sneak, Stab, and Spell for the Elder Scrolls games. That would be their ideal for minimalism.
"You dont have to mention your child just never socialize with main quest charecters"
Honestly some of these points hurt my brain
No, that's not how it works.
It's ok to make a game with established characters and stories. Literally every fallout game does this.
Everyone expects this to be "elder scrolls with guns," but it's not. In Zelda you play an elf boy, final fantasy... let's go with... Rabanstrean street urchin.
Being a parent looking for you kid is perfectly fine. This is such a lame, weak, absurd argument.
@@iami3rian394 What was the established character you played in fallout 1? No you can't point out the pregens.
@@xXnoscopeheadshots Vault dweller in search of a water chip....?
An explanation to your question about why older fans want the game to have an definitive ending: Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas have ending slides explaining what happened to the factions and characters you helped or screwed over during the story. Nearly all the big quests are given ending slides explaining what happened to the participants/survivors in detail. Fallout 3 only adknowledges that you did the quests, your final choice and your karma rating (until Broken Steel DLC) but New Vegas put back the detailed ending slides so having Fallout 4 removing the slides all together and just continue the story with no ending to the Commonwealth angered a lot of fans.
Clearly Bethesda decided to avoid giving an ending to the Commonwealth after the complains of Fallout 3's rushed, definitive ending (they were forced to do Broken Steel to continue the story).
That doesn't explain why Fallout 4's main quest ending was bad. They just did it a little different than in 1, 2, and NV. How does that make it bad, per se?
We already have closure on most of the most important side quests. If Austin survived in Vault 88, then we know he'll grow into manhood. If we killed Lorenzo in the Cabot quest, we'll know the Cabot family eventually succumb to mortality and die. Billy Peabody and his parents slowly rebuild their family if they were reunited and serve the Gunners as slaves if they were sold. So on and so forth. Do we really need slideshows to tell us these things?
@@Acerthorn It's a case of older fans demanding that tradition be respected. Past games had definitive endings showing what happened in the long term to the region, the characters and the factions. Fallout 4 does not care for long term consequences on the setting and didn't respected the tradition.
Bethesda has always cared more for casual fans than older fans and that has made older fans specially critical of Bethesda.
Look for Noah Caldwell Gervais and his Fallout 4 review, he's not hyperbolic unlike other critics but will give you another perspective.
@@diegojose4173 *"Look for Noah Caldwell Gervais and his Fallout 4 review"*
Can you provide me with a direct link to that video, if you want me to see it that bad?
@@Acerthorn th-cam.com/video/OnmKlmW7vqY/w-d-xo.html
It's 40 minutes long and the audio it's not the best but it's a different perspective.
@@Acerthorn How he'll grow into manhood might be nice to see. What kindof person he might become depending on the...right there are no decisions in the context of those characters beyond those single ones. Maybe the way you first interact with him about the tour could change that up a little, but really your point here is the damning issue with many of Fallout 4's quests. They suffer from Fallout 3's 'single branching path' problem. For smaller quests like Cabot or the Kid in the fridge its fine. Not *everything* in every game hits an ending slide. But for something as possibly character defining as your interactions with Austin in the vault? Yeah, there should have been some consequences. If not to Austin then to the rest of the Vault's isolationism. And affecting the Vault, and even Austin, in those ways should have ongoing effects. Possibly even *negative* ones.
And really most people wanted to know the closure *to* the main quest because we absolutely don't get it. We get that we picked a side. We never get to find out what these large organizations *really* do, what our completing or not completing certain missions may do (or rarely how we complete them for the BOS farmers quest for example), or what happens if several factions manage to remain with the Minutemen. If they do just take the obvious linear path, then sure, maybe we can guess an end. But doesn't that make them masturbatory? Whatever we think will happen does, and exactly that? Why even ever replay to try complete them if its obvious what they do. Oh, right. The brass at Beth thinks replayability isn't a feature when its damn near the defining consequence of choice and consequence for an RPG.
Really the complaints about the slides fall back to a bigger issues that their lack of a need for them presents, and a fundamental game design choices that hollows out the spirit of things. That Fallout 4 was made to be played indefinitely until you get bored. Stories have endings and wrapup. The down roll after the climax. Fallout 4 hits the climax with its "reveal" (which is still boring, telegraphed, and underwhelming) and then rolls into a second "climax" (yay, more explosions) with the faction fights and then just lays there in a puddle of its own excrement after the Institute. There is no wrapup in Fallout 4. No end to the story. Which may have been fine (and to me still been underwhelming because short-term results tend to be pretty meaningless) if we were supposed to interact with the results of our choices 1:1. But we really don't. Some flags, pointless fights, and 1 question changes in the most minor ways possible. After that you go build your sandcastles in the designated 'sandcastle areas' and play some other almost impact-less DLCs in this big, hollow, soulless sandbox.
You say you can roleplay someone who does not care about their son, but that's factually wrong. Your character will be passionate about Shaun in dialogue and you cannot choose otherwise.
Only in conversations directly involving the main quest, as I point out in the video.
@@Acerthorn Right. In conclusion, you cannot do what you say, exception in some cases. Which is a complete defeat.
@@ripyungbruh8157 I'm sorry I don't understand that sentence.
@@FinneousPJ1defeat..?
But honestly, the soundtrack (both main score and in-game) of F4 is absolutely stunning. It gets even better with Far Harbor (listen to "Our Island").
Once you achieve your main goal in life, what do you do? You carry on living, that's what you do. Life goes on.
I'm feeling you're selling NV system short.
In New Vegas, you often have in dialogue checks for particular skill, and then separate option for speech skill check.
I've played New Vegas, and I don't recall the options for speech & skill dialogue checks being in a majority of dialogue trees.
@@Acerthorn I'm on my first playthrough, but at least all the cases where I've wanted to pass a skill check, there has usually been at least two separate skill checks, usually speech/barter or both, and then specialized one like explosives, medicine, energy weapons, sneak or whatever particular topic the option relates to.
TLDR: Nate must always be someone capable of a not warped sense of empathy, which reduces role play options and increases ludo-narrative dissonance for players that by and large play murderous psychopaths with a body count of 500+. This is inferior to NV.
Can't say I agree with your point on NV and 4 both having ludo-narrative dissonance nor do I believe that just not playing the Main Quest to keep role playing consistency is a viable option. While I agree that they both have it, as some sort of motivating force is going to be needed, I don't think NV has it as bad as 4. The reason for this, I believe, comes down to empathy being chosen as the motivating force in 4 rather than using a personal motivating force like in NV.
Speaking of someone close to you with genuine emotion implies empathy. Nate speaks of/with Shaun in unavoidable dialogues with emotion. Therefore, Nate has a sense of empathy. This is undeniably intrinsic to the main story, he must, in all canons, have shown genuine empathy. However, psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists, or paranoid people (I have the feeling I'll get flak for that one) have warped senses of empathy or lack it all together. Therefore, Nate cannot be role played as those above character types. This above argument falls apart if there isn't any unavoidable dialogues speaking of/with Shaun, which may be the case, I cannot remember everything.
Being shot in the head is a slight against someone on a personal level. The courier is shot in the head. Therefore, the courier is invested on a personal level. Psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists, or paranoid people can all be invested in something on a personal level. Therefore, the courier can be role played as those above characters.
The difference between these two is that the 4 MC remains a Pandora's box of empathy so long as the main quest isn't followed, which is what happens as people wander off into 50 raider dens for bobbleheads rather than completing the main story. So whether Nate empathetic or not is unknown. However, he is intrinsically a dead cat once you actually do anything Canon, and this dead cat is one that limits those above mentioned role playing options. That's where the ludo-narrative dissonance comes into play. The only remedy is to forever remain a Pandora's box.
The NV MC successfully manages to remain as Pandora's box if Benny is persued, as their empathy, and thus their role playing potential, remains obscured behind it being a personal slight against them. It is still restricted if you want to play the Mahatmatic Ghandicus pacifist, but that additional freedom to be those above mentioned role playing options makes it better than 4.
Sorry if it seems like a rant.
Bro you deserve 1M subs for this, good job!
Thank you! There are ways you can help support the channel, such as by supporting me on Patreon and/or with channel memberships, as well as through these methods: th-cam.com/video/gyZ9vbwpV7k/w-d-xo.html
@@Acerthorn I’ll see what I can do
Just a warning, this video goes completely the off rails at around 1:54:00 when he starts raving about public nudity. Wtf
I know right. It’s just a joke.
@@Thederanged1 It does go on a bit without any punchline lol
1:24:38 that line had me watching away from the screen with a “Did you just really” face 😂
Something i wanted to point out. Even if you don't care about your wife, the GAME does. The characters comments are written voiced and put into the game regardless of the player's choice
*"The characters comments are written voiced and put into the game regardless of the player's choice
"*
So you're one of those people who take the attitude of "It's not optional because we don't have the option to not have it in the game to begin with," right? Anything that's in the game in any capacity is necessarily mandatory and forced upon the player.
@@Acerthorn Good evening sir! I admit i could have phrased it better , English isn't my native language in my mind it made sense. What i meant to say is : is was important enough for Bethesda to include it so I can't completely disregard it. If I did then what else could i ignore ? If you asked me i would say either make the character a predefined one example : geralt of rivia , lara croft , Nathan Drake , Kratos or leave it blank. So i could go around exploring the commonwealth and never look for my son but Bethesda clearly wants me to.
@@zoisantonopoulos7999 *"what else could i ignore"*
Pretty much everything. You could ignore just about anything except the opening and tutorial dungeon. After you surface from Vault 111, literally anything else only has to be done if you choose to do it.
Think about it this way: The Fallout 4 side quest "Order Up," which you can acquire immediately after Concord. There are not one, not two, not three, but FOUR ways to complete that quest! You can side with either Trudy or Wolfgang. But whichever side you choose, you can use either violence or dialogue to get them to back off.
You obviously can't do all four resolutions to the quest in one playthrough. You have to pick one resolution per playthrough and leave the other three behind. Which resolution you go with will depend on the character you are roleplaying as, whether your character is a digital version of yourself or a fictional personality you created yourself.
In that circumstance, Bethesda created three endings to that quest that they believed were equally valid, but they obviously expected you to pick only one.
And that's not even counting the undisclosed fifth option: Simply not doing the quest at all. You are absolutely free to simply walk passed the Drumlin Diner and not pay it a second glance.
I see the Sole Survivor either caring or not caring about his wife and/or son to be much the same way. Bethesda certainly gave you the option to care about either or both of them, but they also gave you the option to not care about one or either. Which one you go with on any given playthrough depends on your roleplaying preferences.
Fallout and the Elder Scrolls are all about player choice. There are multiple ways to complete almost every quest in both franchises. You can side with the good guys and defeat the bad guys, or you can betray the good guys and join the bad guys. You also have the option of simply not doing any quest that doesn't interest you ...
... even the main quest.
In both the Elder Scrolls and Fallout, the game does not cut to end credits after you complete the main quest and then the game is over. You are allowed to continue playing after completing the main quest.
For this reason, the main quest is, in most Bethesda games, just another questline. You have just as much of an option to ignore the main quest as any other questline or standalone quest.
It is this game design which gave birth to the phrase "one does not simply complete Skyrim." There's really no "the end" in the Elder Scrolls or Fallout games (at least the Fallout games developed by Bethesda). You never truly "beat" or "complete" the games. You just ... eventually run out of meaningful stuff to do.
@@zoisantonopoulos7999 it's not that type of game, and everyone needs to just get over that fact.
No todds no masters, great choice I'm going to go watch a better analysis video for the second time
Please do
I wasn't aware of the term ludonarrative dissonance, but I agree that's that happens. I come out of the vault needing to find my son, and figure out what's going on, and the game keeps throwing distraction after distraction at me. Preston and his group need help. Danse and his group need help. Go to Diamond City, and get bombarded by sidequests, as expected from a major hub. Finally find your son, and...he's in no immediate danger. Outside of the terminal illness you can't help him with.
Then you do some other questing, and decide if you're going to ally with the shadowy group that kidnaps and replaces people, or if you want to set off a huge nuclear explosion in the most densely populated region of the Commonwealth. War never changes. The End.
I understand the deacon line for the railroad password defense my issue is the main people they are hiding from are definitely literate. The Institute builds synths of course they can spell railroad so could the brotherhood of steel who are also a known entity and should have been on the radar as a threat even tho they were new to the common wealth. Making the password your name is just a terrible plan for a secret organization even with many people being illiterate why would you just not use almost any other word. On a side note the problem I have with the shaun twist isn't that it is obvious it's that it would be obvious which I think is fine but they use the kellog memories to mislead you in a way that doesn't make sense the chosen memories he has remaining range very far and wide and just so happen to have the info you need while lining up perfectly to mislead you into thinking shaun is 10 no memories in 60ish year's and none with the real shaun? The use of the old man title for the previous director (who the only other director we know of was a women) and for again someone who is much younger than he is was clearly inserted to make it seem as tho to much time hadn't passed. I do really enjoy playing fallout 4 I think it's a fun turn your brain off shooter with some rpg elements I can enjoy more than most fps games but imo it just is very flawed on an rpg and story level if I put a lot of thought into it like I do with most older rpgs. I have some disagreements with your opinions in the video but overall like fallout 4 I do enjoy it and will be subscribing I think you argued your points well and came from a pretty balanced place even when I don't agree with your take awesome work.
Bro, it's real hard to find anyone who does any kind of analysis or criticism who doesn't know what a Chekhov's Gun is.
Funny then that I've never seen one before, at least not someone who does analysis of video games.
And I've seen videos from some of the biggest on youtube. KingK ... MatthewMatosis ... Joesph Anderson ... Mistercaption ... and I've never once seen any one of them mention chekhov's gun.
I've seen Mistarefusion mention the term, but he only covers dragon ball and Power Rangers/Super Sentai, not video games.
Good video throwing a sub and a like deserves more views
1:49:58 is not quite right. only fo1 and fo3 started the player as vault dweller. fo2's player is a tribal, his only connection to the vault is his ancestor being fo1's protagonist. original pre-bethesda fo3's plans (van buren) were for the player to be a prisoner. tactics's protagonist is a bos initiate, same for fallout: bos. bethesda took vault dwelling as some central part of the setting and made that a reoccurring thing, needlessly restricting the player's starting point, but pre-beth pretty much all games had different starting points.
But can I be a Raider, tho?
That's my point, Ludonarrative Dissonance and "programmed" rpgs are one and the same. You're always following a preset background.
I like how with the 4 main groups is that not everything with each faction is so cut and dry
I'm playing this game for the third time: I tried, but it just didn't quite grab me, although I saw potential.
my problem with this title is that I can't decide my character, and I'm not just talking from the point of view of Nate and Nora's backstory, but also the elimination of the karma system and reputation with the factions.
We begin as men (or women) of the 21st century, we were born in the pre-war context and, even "worse" from a role-playing point of view, we are fathers/mothers of families. Everything in the plot of Fallout 4 immediately communicates the fact that Shaun is the focal point of events, and this is even if we ignore the main plot entirely, choosing a faction hostile to the Institute.
In New Vegas, we wanted to find Benny and the platinum chip, both to get revenge and to pocket the money: we were not emotionally involved with Benny, to the point that we could even leave him dying in the hands of the Legion.
Fallout 4, in some ways, carries forward the role-playing of Skyrim, where the main quest requires you to defeat Alduin, there is no possibility of enslaving him or taking absolute power, you can only choose not to do the main quest.
But I was saying... the karma system has been removed, and even the companions no longer respond to the choices made in the game: sure, they can disapprove and hate us, but on balance they are not really barred from us. And with factions it's even worse: you can easily be the guy who messes with the Railroad and shoots synthetics with the brotherhood, while helping Preston and even your son. Sure, at a certain point you have to choose, but until that point there is never a real limit placed on how far you can go in dealing with a faction.
The dialogue they were going for I feel was done right in dragon age 2 it is based on the type of character you are playing the flaws mostly seem to be this was slightly less clear here and they don't know what sarcasm is but the spirit of it is fine I personally prefer longer more detailed options but when done well like in da2 this system is still done to me.
0:38 look at the length of the video
Me: Oh gracious galaxies, swirling in the vast expanse of the cosmic symphony, amidst the infinite dance of stars and supernovae, where nebulae paint the canvas of the heavens with hues of celestial wonder, let us pause in awe and wonderment at the magnificence of the universe. Behold, in this cosmic ballet, amidst the cosmic cacophony, where the celestial bodies gobble and gather in their celestial dance, there emerges a glimmer, a spark of transcendent goodness that permeates the fabric of existence, like a beacon of hope shining amidst the infinite darkness. Let us, mere mortals, bask in the splendor of this divine spectacle, as we are humbled by the majesty of creation and the mysteries of the cosmos that’s really long
25:02 funny enough Charisms in New Vegas is considered useless and a dump stat for that exact reason
When dogmeat appears out of Kellog’s home is because Nick whistle a ultrasound that only dogs can hear, he explains that. Honestly is pretty realistic for a dog to hear an ultrasound from diamond city to sanctuary.
Are u intentionally saying words incorrectly sometimes xD
No, I have no idea what you're even talking about.
Watched your FNV retrospective as well, you earned yourself a sub today sir
You'll probably unsubscribe immediately after you see my three most recent videos, as well as the video I'm currently working on.
Acerthorn not a chance. I didnt agree with your opinion on new vegas but thats okay we are all entitled to our own opinions. boutta watch these newest vids and see
Thinking about Strong and Super Mutant values makes me think the mindset may be a holdover from the Minutemen type values. Sharing and helping each other. Not saying Strong was a former Minuteman or anything, but it may be the last vestige of Humanity from the days when these people weren't experimented on, and transformed into mutants.
It's just too bad any sympathy I might gain for Strong and his people is undercut by the fact that they hunt, kill, and eat Humans.
I wouldn't say that people hate the game. There's definitely people like that, but a small minority. A lot of the older fallout players ( like myself ), say that this game lacks substance, content and it very inconsistent with it's story and side stories.
I don't personally care about the settlement dlc soaybe not who you were asking but I have never heard the complaint be they shouldn't exist I have heard there were mods that did everything they do for free yet Bethesda overcharged for them I think that's the problem people have not that you shouldn't be able to have fun with them
Pretty sure you can have a story without plot holes. That is like saying life must have plot holes. I do appreciate you voicing your opinion though. You had interesting things to say.
Life isn't fiction, though. In fact, life is literally the opposite of fiction. When a book documents something that happened in real life, that is literally called "nonfiction."
Plotholes are indeed inevitable in fiction. Why? Because fiction is man-made and therefore is inherently imperfect.
@@Acerthorn no, I've read plenty of books that had no plot holes, though those usually tend to be more reality based than real life. I couldn't possibly list them all here there are so many, but if you have a well established world, with well established rules, and characters you fully know and you think things out, you can make a story with no plot holes. A few that immediately come to mind, Anne of Green Gables and Cleminintine, both heavily based on real life. For more fantasy based ones, the entire guardians of ga'hoole series. There are plenty of other examples, but if the characters don't have some superman-like overpowered powers as long as you think it through, you shouldn't have plot holes. Even magic can be done right if properly thought through.
@@dragonninja3655 Even if it is _possible_ to make a story with no plot holes (and I have not seen any proof of that), you're totally missing the point. The point is that _it's not necessary_ to create a story with no plot holes. The only thing a storyteller needs to do is tell an interesting and entertaining story. Not having plotholes is not a priority.
@@Acerthorn oh, yeah totally agree with that. So long as there aren't too many plot holes and they aren't huge. I was only arguing against that stories always have plot holes, which is definitely not true. As a writer myself though, I do consider avoiding plot holes a priority. I always go back and re-read all my old stuff and have notes on how everything works before I write a next installment to make sure I'm not messing something up. And although it hasn't happened to me yet, I'm willing to ignore small plot holes if ignoring them makes the story a lot better.
@@dragonninja3655 Bear in mind that, when I talked about plot holes in this video, my primary argument in that section of the video was that it was rather hypocritical of fans to criticize Fallout 4 for its plot holes when Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood questline (one of the most universally beloved questlines Bethesda has ever created) is guilty of the exact same plot holes but doesn't receive 1% of the same amount of hate.
My argument was more about pointing out their hypocrisy than anything else.
As a controversial as this is it fallout 4 is my favorite game
How red are your knees?
Wdym?
I personally feel level caps aren't a good idea because:
1) Rising Exp requirements already act as a soft cap anyway without being overly restrictive.
2) There are modes in games like New Game Plus that would feel less engaging if the player could no longer progress their characters. Even Games like Spider-Man and the recent Assassin's Creed at least offer minor stat improvements upon level ups even when all perks are obtained to ensure exp still has some value.
Well hey there! Been a while since I've seen you in the comments section! It's good to see you again!
@@Acerthorn Uni's been really busy. Thanks
@@FraserSouris Anyway, I'd argue that a level cap might be needed if a game has a multiplayer mode in it. Sure, you can match up players who are of a similar level to each other, but there's only so many tiers you can program into the game. So for example, if a game has a system in place where only those level 50 or above can get matched up with each other, while those level 40-49 are matched with each other, and so on and so forth, we have to have a definitive level cap. Otherwise, those who just barely qualify for the 50+ tier may find themselves being squashed by players who are level 9,001, not because those people are cheating, nor because they bought pay-to-win microtransactions, but because they did an insane but otherwise perfectly legitimate amount of grinding.
So at least with multiplayer games, a level cap makes sense.
Acerthorn
Yeah. Multiplayer might need a more definitive cap. It would also allow things like prestiging
I have the mod that disables settlement attacks, and workshop rearranged. My load order is sorted by LOOT and everything is stable. I have the UFO4P and launch with F4SE. So im not sure why, Ill start playing and all mods are working and then out of the blue, some just seem to fail. Ive even had enemies spawn in using my own perks against me while all my perks stop working. And the random choke point encounters will spam 100 waves of attacks and when that fails to kill me it will disable my attacks so that all i can do is run away. I suspect the AI chains are breaking and its cheating to beat me. Im too good to be beat like that but.. Im not sure whats causing it because i dont have never had any mod that would affect it.
your player looks like he just came from a rasberry pie eating contest
Downtown Boston should've been the city. Not just Diamond City. Should've been like Cyberpunk 2077 where you have a big bustling crime ridden city with a wasteland outside.
Bethesda never knew how to implement speech skill/ Charisma influence properly. They been experimenting with that in every game constantly changing it and constantly failing to deliver anything of any depth.
Sadly, I cannot disagree with you. That is indeed one of Bethesda's many achilles heels.
Liked it up to the point you accused piper of using sex to get what she wants, literally no clue how you came to that conclusion
Yeah I had no idea how he got to that point from the one quote.
Like the way she flirts with you when she invites you to the interview.
Great video man, just to let you know Mister Caption is back, he just goes under Caption now, hes published a critique of Borderlands 3
Curious as to why you blur out all the names in the subtitles?
Basically, copyright. I got the footage from someone who claims to own the copyright to the longplay. So I blurred out the name so he would never be able to prove in court that it was his footage, since it was easier for me to just use his footage than to play through the whole game all over again just to record my own.
I have since learned that unedited gameplay footage cannot be copyrighted, not unless you can also claim a copyright to the game itself (which this TH-camr cannot do), so I was already legally in the clear, which is the main reason I feel comfortable openly admitting to this now. But at the time I made this video, I didn't know that.
@@Acerthorn very interesting! thanks for quick reply! im still watching your video haha
There are games where you can decide your own background? I mean in any meaningful way, not just some flavor text, a modestly incremented stat or a handful of unique speech checks.
Sure. The Elder Scrolls is one of them.
The Mass Effect series is all about it and sticks with it through all three games.
Everything included in the player backstory did nothing but further distance my resonance with the character. I had never identified LESS with a bethesda protagonist in my entire life. FUCK THIS GAME.
That is your opinion. You are entitled to it. But as I explain in detail in this retrospective, the character backstory was essential to the plot.
@@Acerthorn While what you say is true, some would argue that the plot shouldn't be the way it is at all. There shouldn't be a backstory for the plot to be based on, it should just be a main quest that starts from nothing and progresses into you becoming a somebody like in New Vegas and just about every Elder Scrolls Game (even Oblivion and Skyrim).
I like fallout 4
I like fallout 4. Its a fun game...but like all bethesda game, mods make the meat of the game for me.
Ur lying
Fun action adventure game but that’s not fallout
Tbh, I sit in the middle of character building.
I like the more free formed skill point setup of 3 and NV, but somethings could have been streamlined alot better (combining say science and repair, and lockpick with sneak) so that we had alot less options that did very little. same thing with combat (e weapons and fire arms are not significantly different in use in these games, nor are unarmed and melee weapons), as for specials, intelligence is just way too strong, luck is a meme, perception and endurance can be ignored by most builds, and charisma can be ignored by all. I'd rather see a bit more depth like the older form with perks being more creative as they were before.
And I'll criticize 4 for the way it handles combat perks. its actually terrible
A energy weapon build is diffrant from a gun focused build. A mecanic is diffrant from a computer wiz and a stealth master is not going to be good with lock picks. Removing options by compressing skills just gives you less options.
Stealth is more knowing how to quietly walk and make sure you dont "jingle" your gear too much & lockpicking is figuring out how to penetrate
@@TheReZisTLust not sure what that has to do with it being a stupid mechanic that its a skill with one niche use
it be like making you focus on one certain weapon, like "energy pistols" or "ballistic automatic rifles". being too niche is bad, and we already have the worst of both worlds with speech encompassing all talking
Uh its not impossible to make something that doesn't have plot holes. Thats absolutely ridiculous.
Ok, if you say so.
@@Acerthorn name one plot hole shaw shank redemption. Or fallout 1 and 2.
Like and sub is the least I could do.
Thanks man 👍 great analysis, really enjoyed this one
13:27 wouldn’t your first reaction be to go check out where you used to live?
No. You saw Shaun get kidnapped with your own two eyes. You aren't looking for where Shaun would be normally; you're looking for where the kidnapper would have taken him. Why would the kidnapper take Shaun to YOUR house, of all places?
@@Acerthorn right under your nose makes sense to me. But I mostly talking about the quest markers. I just feel like even with my son missing I would sill go look at my old house for any materials or any sign of him
@@andyisswag6189 Well, I suppose that's how YOU think. I personally found this leg of the main quest to be not the least bit organic.
"can't be gay" is that other guy's argument against Fallout 4. The only one
The best
“Fallout 4, my first Fallout game.” Ah that definitely explains the hatred in your voice and lack of understanding in the New Vegas video. I’m not criticizing or anything, I enjoy your content. I just find it interesting how a person’s entrance into an ongoing series affects their view on previous titles.
*"I just find it interesting how a person’s entrance into an ongoing series affects their view on previous titles."*
Then how come I enjoy Daggerfall?
@@Acerthorn because buggerfall has yet to be replicated and those fans are probably starving since nobody seems to want to attempt to copy the elder scrolls II formula which is a shame. It deserves a remaster with all the skills like climbing intact but I get that the world is massive and semi randomly generated. The unity port is nice, though. Or maybe you just prefer fantasy over the post apocalyptic? Which is also fine, I’m just here for cool content on great series. You deserve more subscribers, it’s always disappointing to see people writing about great franchises that people definitely care about have such a small fan base. I look forward to watching the rest of your content given that I’ve just discovered you other day.
@@derpthegr8689 But you just said that people love their first game in a franchise and detest any games that came before it.
I played Daggerfall after Oblivion and Skyrim, so should I hate it?
@@richardbeaudangles2559 *"he didn't say detest"*
So? Just because he didn't use that specific word doesn't mean it isn't appropriate for me to use when paraphrasing his argument.
Even though you mentioned the controversies throughout your video, it barely scratches the surface on why fans were frustrated with Fallout 4 in a narrative to mechanical level as a whole. I honestly think you'll understand a lot more of the contextual reasons why older Fallout fans who started with the originals, Fallout 3 or New Vegas respectively were frustrated about the direction Bethesda Game Studios took the franchise since Fallout 4 by engaging into a discussion and see things in their perspective as I did with fans of Fallout 4 a few years ago. The Fallout fanbase is more divided and diverse than most fanbases, which could lead to interesting debates and discussions without insulting each other, well some of the time at the very least.
I have to ask ... did you actually watch the video? Because this video is still recent enough that my analytics page still records the watch minutes in real time (as opposed to merely the view count), and this video has only received 73 minutes of watch time today.
Now don't get me wrong: You don't owe me a damn thing, least of all views and watch time. As a youtube content creator, that's MY job. However, I do believe that for you to say that a 3-hour video is "barely scratching the surface" on anything is a bit of a bold statement, and I feel that it's something you should only make after actually seeing the whole thing.
Watching through this video now and even though this is a Fallout 4 retrospective, his pretty apparent relative lack of in-depth knowledge of the Fallout games before Fallout 4 makes a number of his points fall flat.
"The Fallout fanbase is more divided and diverse then most fanbases, which could lead to interesting debates and discussions without insulting each other" The pipe dream of all pipe dreams, sorry to tell you. Neither side is completely right or wrong, but both sides think they're completely right!! There can never be peace!! The war between the old Interplay/Black Isle fans and the new Bethesda fans, is a war without end!! And war...war never changes...
That "night in the park a year ago" could have just been a romantic moment that led to them going to...not a park to get it on.
Ok, that is at least a conceivable interpretation. However, it's clear that she's actually saying they had sex in public. That is by far the more likely interpretation.
Besides, the "night in the park a year ago" line was Nate's line. Nora very clearly says she'll "get pregnant" if they go to the park.
Even the Nora line could have been implying to the series of events that led up to sex, wherever that means might've been. For what it's worth though...I won't be able to stop myself from thinking about that now whenever I hear those lines. 😆
Mmmm....interesting
Thank you. Hey, since you're enjoying my content so much, might I encourage you to consider supporting me for as little as $1/mo over at www.patreon.com/acerthorn? Every little bit helps!
Oh yeah I remember you
You is a should make discord, server honestly.
Just supporting
Fallout 4 literally came out 2015 so why title says "retrospective"
I'm sorry for not using the exact wording you personally would prefer.
@@Acerthorn I forgive you :D
you assume too many things from Bethesda's part; I think it is just wishful thinking, or do you have sources that these were the things they wanted to do?
Well, at least insofar as the dialogue system, where each face button represented a certain emotion in dialogue, I provided a clip from a press conference where a Bethesda rep actually explained that this is how the dialogue system was supposed to work. Meanwhile, when discussing Bethesda's "minimalist" game design approach, I showed a clip from Todd Howard where he explained his desire to trim the fat off his games and get rid of superfluous skills. How's that for soruces?
How come you only have little subscribers? You should have millions!
Thank you! You know ... there's one way you can help this channel go viral: i.postimg.cc/XNmCfgNt/B.png
Did it, done and done.
Nah dude billions pump it up.
Hey! Really great critic but i dont think you can give Bethesda credit for their intention on the dialog ... whatever they meant to do isn’t making a bad choice good ... also I feel a lot of negativ vibes against new vegas which was a better rpg but not as satisfying for people who don’t dive deep into games and want to see everything there is. Fallout 4 is simply a casual game for casual gamer. In these days i highly prefer it tho. I can’t keep spending so much time playing. Witcher 3 took me 200h in 2 months ... fallout nv and fallout 3 I had to play so much in a small time too. Fallout 4 is like a game which I get to play 30-60 mins a day 2 times a week for fun and relaxing so it’s far more playable right now !! Please keep your critic on facts not an intentions !
*"also I feel a lot of negativ vibes against new vegas"*
You don't say? th-cam.com/video/T6Xp-Audx3w/w-d-xo.html
Fallout 4 is a game thats great if you just want to loot and shoot and build bases in every other respect its a morons version of a fallout game Fallout for the masses and i hate it to death except for the Far Harbour DLC which i really enjoyed
Bro, having sex in a park does not necessarily equate to exhibitionism
Elaborate
@@Acerthorn Maybe they drove to the park and had sex in their car.
@@Acerthorn 1 option, they drove to the park & had sex in their car.
Sorry but this sounds like a review by someone who didn’t play FO3/NV/4 as they came out. Compare finding your dad / playing in FO3 and finding your son / playing 4. One is an RPG with choice the other is a preordained story you have to navigate through a predetermined character plot with one outcome.
You obviously didn't listen to literally the first sentence in this video.
@@AcerthornI heard what you said. My point that it was so incredibly uninformed and inaccurate (and it was). Even your bullshit intro “people either love it or hate it!” Was wrong. People were lukewarm on it, even critics. Your videos suck lol
Oh my character can't be gay? Good.
Just get a better pc, on mine loading screens NEVER exceed 3 seconds (I checked)
And who still uses HDDs in 2024? Having an SSD is a reasonable requirement
car
Fallout 4 was hot garbage
It is so bad that it's only slightly better than Witcher 3 XD
@@GHOSTRIDER373737 nah witcher 3 shits all over this game
Your argument for the game being RP friendly by just saying "just don't do the main quest" is flawed imo. I understand that you mentioned how the bit with you checking your spouse's pod and vowing to avenge them and find Shaun is optional but if you recall, there are several instances before they enter the vault that your character inevitably implies that they love their family. I'm not sure if it's required for the salesman to show up but I'm pretty sure you have to play with Shaun in his crib before you can progress. Even if that's not true, your character literally says "I love you" to the both of them right before the bombs hit. So, because of this forced, pre-written backstory, it would make no logical sense to play a character that doesn't care for their family and if you DID decide to try and do that by saying "oh he has amnesia when he wakes up", you'd have to walk on eggshells whenever you go anywhere that involves progressing the main quest like Concord or Diamond City.
In conclusion, you should not be forced to avoid the main quest in order to experience immersive roleplay. You can argue that this game's main quest is good overall as a video game story but to say it's good as an RPG story is just blatantly false.=
*"there are several instances before they enter the vault that your character inevitably implies that they love their family"*
Narcissists will often say those words without actually feeling the love. So it can be reconciled.
*"I'm pretty sure you have to play with Shaun in his crib before you can progress"*
Again, narcs often do this just to put on a show.
@@Acerthorn what if I don't want to be a narc but I still want to be a lone wolf that never wanted a family?
@@Acerthorn Also, the timing of when your character says "I love you" is literally when the impact is in sight and your character thought everyone was about to die. There's no way that your character wasn't being 100% genuine when they said that.
@@masterrdf418 What if I don't want to be a witcher?
New Vegas fans also tend to like Dark Souls and Elden Ring. To that, I offer the often-quoted rebuttal argument they often give: Not all games have to appeal to everybody.
It's fine for a game developer to tell the story they want to tell. There's nothing wrong with that.
As I explain in 1:44:40, Fallout 4 tells a tragic story of a man who ultimately loses everything despite his best efforts and good faith. Sometimes, you can do everything right and still lose. Sometimes, life itself just fucks you over.
That's a perfectly valid story premise, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with Bethesda wanting to tell that story.
However, telling that story DOES require they put the player character in a semi-predefined role and backstory. There's a certain amount of pre-written characterization that's simply inevitable if you're going to tell that kind of story.
@@Acerthorn well Witcher is a different example since that character is established in every way shape and form. There is no illusion of making your own character by being able to name him or pick his appearance. In the Witcher series, you play as a pre-determined character with a pre-determined backstory but what makes that game a good RPG is the ability to make choices that affect the game world. Rarely anything in Fallout 4 is able to be changed through your choices. I’ve literally had instances where I told a guy “absolutely not, I will not do this” and the guy will still be like “yeah well we gotta do what we gotta do” and just have me the quest anyway. This is from far harbor when you join the children of atom and the confessor tells you he needs a job done.
Ludonarrative Dissonance and preconceptualized background can be stretched to the point where not a single video game RPG is adequate as an RPG.
Gotta draw the line somewhere...
@@TheHulk1850 Agree. But definitely disagree that Fallout 4 is that line.
@@Ocean5ix Well, I never said that Fallout 4 was the line, necessarily!! I think Role playing wise it's the weakest in the series. New Vegas gets to have the title of most Role playing options. Despite that though, 3 is still my favorite.
ok you hate beth ... you can just post on 4chan you dont have to be annoying
Whatever
valde = ewww
While you're welcome to your own opinion the amount of hoops you jump through to defend this game while also spouting off random tangents to criticize other aspects of it is absurd. I honestly can't believe I listened to the entire lunacy after the lengths you went through to champion the "roleplaying" in this game within the first third to the bizarre complaints of Piper and your player being sexual deviants. It plays less like an actual critique of Fallout 4 and more so like some weird manifesto.
Care to debate me on livestream? Check out this video for details: th-cam.com/users/shortsyKqMrPOTUdU
@@Acerthorn Not particularly. You're free to have your opinion even if I disagree with points of it and quite frankly I'm not sure a debate would change any of that. I'll check out one of these live debates and see if it would alter my perspective on the situation and let you know for sure though.
@@Acerthorn Yeah... no thanks. Watching a previous debate and it's a jumbled mess of a show with ad breaks in the middle of topics resulting in jarring sporadic drivel lacking any sort of clear focus or thought.
We disagree. Glad you liked it but FO4 was a horrible fallout/RPG in my opinion. Nothing you do actually matters in the entire game, the dialog system is a cheap mass effect knock off etc etc.
If the point of these retrospectives is to be objective towards these games you do a poor job ACTUALLY explaining the games mechanics and how they tie into enjoying the title and what makes it good or bad and how that shapes the overall conclusion of fallout 4's quality. If this was your first fallout you shouldn't ve doing retrospectives. You don't know what makes this game and it's lore appealing and why it's disappointing in this game. Joseph Anderson makes the best and only fallout 4 retrospective you should watch and if you don't say exactly what he says your video is of lesser quality. He breaks down EVERYTHING and is 100% of the time objective and "fair" about his reviews. Also it's the best fallout 4 review for a reason. It's right about everything. This is just a shit post about fallout 4 not a retrospective. You should take your work more seriously.
*"and if you don't say exactly what he says your video is of lesser quality."*
Aaaaand ... I stopped reading your comment after this.
@@Acerthorn I mean it's true. If you are being objective you would have gave it a lot more criticism. Not that I want to hate the game. It's a good fucking game dude don't get me wrong but a BAD Fallout title. The story is so fucked the interaction is fucked, building is cool I guess but not related to fallout, not to mention the dialogue options. Also unique weapons are not unique anymore. The game sucks dude. Fallout New Vegas is the best game in the series as far as playability and the first two games are very slow paced lore heavy games which have great atmospheres and settings and is fun if you have patience. Fallout 3 in my opinion was not that bad in retrospect but I would say it did have many flaws in the storyline. Had some great dlcs though like point lookout. Listen dude I love you
@@Acerthorn listen I'm kinda trolling you mate. But what I said above still stands. You didn't like Fallout New Vegas because you don't know how to play games. Not actually playing them but how to enjoy them. I enjoyed fallout 4 but I hated it lmao. I will never play it again and I have only played like 80hours. I've played New Vegas since it was released and I probably have as much as 2000 hours into the game and about 600 in 3. I have had so many playthroughs its ridiculous. I've mastered every glitch. The super jump block combo, infinite caps, infinite levels before you leave goodsprings. I know everything about Fallout New Vegas you nerd. I'm doing a speedrun of Vegas when I get a pc, I've already mastered the .357 super jump. I'm a boss, you should watch who you are talking to. Yeah I got the plat.
@@JrocTheReal There's a difference between being objective and only stating objective facts. The thing about game retrospectives is that there's inevitably going to be at least some subjectivity in them. That's inevitable. That's like trying to create a bright line rule for "No OoB speedrunning," which, as this guy demonstrates, is impossible: th-cam.com/video/xGnxsJD5Q6Q/w-d-xo.html
But I do certainly believe that I am being objective with my retrospectives. For example, the examples I listed where the game treated you like the Chosen One despite being a mere courier ... do you disagree that these moments involve responsibilities and privileges being thrust upon the player character far beyond what the player character has actually earned in-universe? Do you believe the Courier really did earn the right to choose Primm's next sheriff, singlehandedly? If so, how did he earn that right?