Two corrections: 1) The blackout is apparently selectable and came on by default (an odd choice). It is changed in the menu item “indicator type”. Blackout can also be cause by low shutter speeds (which wasn’t my issue), or flicker reduction, which I wouldn’t recommend turning off unless shooting outside, as it’s an important feature for a sensor with no mechanical shutter, and works very well in this camera. It can also be caused by a specified shutter indication. Many potential causes! More on that: th-cam.com/video/cu83FpSSbSE/w-d-xo.html 2) IBIS/VR for manual lenses can be selected in the menu item “Non-CPU lens data” (Not in the VR menu, another odd choice). It can’t be as quickly customized as on a Sony camera, and using this function with a manual lens lowers the amount of VR available. Here are my corrections: th-cam.com/video/xPq5mhvFY0Q/w-d-xo.html
I have the Z8 and so does my friend. Both of ours came by default with No Blackout.I think yours was the odd one. You said you borrowed it. Is it possible the person you borrowed it from had changed that setting?
they have a rubber cup for the eyepiece that would move that nubbin away from your beak. (technically beak away from your nubbin.) Nikon dark focus has always been sucky... even the majestic D850. The reason I wouldn't buy is the "pro-button" layout that Nikon won't let go of.
While you've used Sony with success, the Z8 has settings to fine tune many of the problems you have highlighted. In a Nikon users hands it'll clearly perform much better.
@@WesPerry well, as a sony user, you have all the muscle memory using sony that you need to contend with when dealing with the finer setup of other systems.
@@WesPerry lol you think you'll get the most out of the Z8/Z9 AF system in a couple hours!? You're delusional. The Sony's are more of a point and shoot style where is more ready for consumers. The Z8/Z9 is a pro flagship body and will take a bit of a larger learning curve.
I just ordered a Z8, but I’m concerned with the poor AF performance. Anyone who’s shot Sony a9ii/a1/a7rx or Canon R5+, you know what good autofocus is. The Z8 seems to miss focus a lot, and for no apparent reason. Even in still scenarios.
@@KruiserIV Some just able to lean the Nikon AF system fully. I have friends that are still struggling with the Z9 18 months after owning it. I along with other friends have no issues with the AF on the Z9, getting high hit/keeper rate (90%+ the majority of the time). So the question is rather obvious, if the AF is so hard or so far behind Sony and Canon, how are some users nothing have the same issues as others? If it was the hardware or firmware everyone would have the same issues and they don't. I say this all the time. Sony is the most point and shoot, most ready for amateurs and consumers. Canon is in-between and Nikon is the most pro flagship and requires an advanced skill set. You will need to use the 12" BEHIND the camera for the best results. Nikon has some room to make to make it closer to the point and shoot. But it is in no way less capable then Sony or Canon
ISO and WB button can be set so you just press it once. Also there’s settings to turn that blackout on/off. I think you need more time with the camera in order to get the settings you need. 😊
On the Z9, when the flicker reduction is on you get EVF blackout at low frame rates, or on the first frame at higher rates. Once you turn FR off, you'll be blackout free.
On the Z9, when the flicker reduction is on you get EVF blackout at low frame rates, or on the first frame at higher rates. Once you turn FR off, you'll be blackout free.
@@WesPerry It's not the flicker reduction; you can leave that on. The Z8 and Z9 have a feature you can intentionally enable that shows a momentary blackout when you fire the shutter. It's for those who like the older DSLR confirmation that they've actually captured a shot. Normally this feature would be disabled by default. Normally the Z8 is 100% blackout free. Also, the Z8 does, indeed, provide IBIS with manual lenses. I believe it drops to 3 stops, however. As to the AF, it's highly configurable, unlike Sony cameras. You have to spend a bit of time dialing in the correct modalities for the shooting situation you're in, and then it's near flawless. As to the differing card slots, yes, the Sonys are the same, but they are both CFExpress Type-A slots. The Z8 is CFExpress Type-B, which by itself has a write speed that is twice as fast as the Sony's Type-A slots.
And yeah, I would definitely rather two CFE-B slots any day. But having one stuck at SD when the camera is an absolute beast is so nutty. At least Sony gives you the Option of paying way too much for CF-A cards haha. Thankfully Angelbird has decided to come save us from That particular situation.
And is there some random option that has to be enabled for manual lens ibis? I searched for a while for that as well. As soon as I put on a manual lens the whole VR menu was just grayed out. One would think the option would be In the VR menu 🤦🏻♂️
@wesperry Wes Wes Wes... I'm only 4:18 into the video and one of your cons is incorrect. You can set IBIS manually. Look up "Non-CPU Lens" in the menu system and you can dial just about any manual lens. You can save the focal length and max aperture of upto 20 lenses. Then IBIS will react accordingly. You can even customize a Fn button and scroll wheel to select with manual lens you have put on if you shoot manal lenses often, or just save the option in "My Menu" for quicker access vs menu diving. I can hand hold a 135 f/2 Ai-s lens and the video footage is super stable. And re: viewfinder..... lower resolution than the a7RV and a1 yes, but it doesn't DROP resolution when focusing & shooting. That feature alone is a deal breaker for me and Sony. All Z's stay the same, just like an OVF and that is the point! I don't want to be reminded that I'm looking at a little TV and Sony's do. Nikon's doesn't.
And I guess my eyes are too good for the Z8 viewfinder, as I’m reminded at All times that I’m looking at a little tv, as I can Always see the pixels. 🥴
Unfortunately TH-cam no longer supports adding annotations after posting (that used to be great for stuff like this). And if you fix issues in a video and repost it, the algorithm notices what you’re doing and shows it to absolutely no one, so that’s a total non starter. I tried it a couple times in the past and got around 10-20 views after 24 hours 😂🤦🏻♂️
Also, there is options for the buttons Re: press ISO and scroll wheel…. You can change the setting so you press and release any given button, let’s say ISO, press and release and as long as you don’t press anything else, you can change ISO with abandon. Then a half press of the shutter or pressing ISO again and you’re back into normal shooting mode. Or auto ISO and use the half press to lock the exposure and BBF to focus, boom. There are lots of options to customize shooting preferences.
@wesperrry, what AF mode were you in? Did you play with menu option a3? I find that Sony users who do a quick evaluation of Nikon products (Fro) don't explore menu items to really tailor AF to what they're shooting. In 18 months with the Z9 and now a week with the Z8 along side it, having shot about 30 weddings in that time in both photo and video, I have noooo problem in low light. Lastly... re: nose... you can get eye cups from Hoodman to distance your face from the nubbin.
I've got so use to the top information screen on my Nikons ever since I bought my first, the Nikon D90, I couldn't do without it. Thank you for your very helpful review from a different perspective.
this is a very important thing to me. So many folks don't get it, but I see you do. When I use a cannon, I call it a drop down menu, but when I use my Nikons I call it my side menus.... Pretty sure they do it to keep the end user (us) segregated into our camps, and probably prevent some strange litigation issues. I find it cumbersome for both of them. I have very little time on Sony but the menus appear to be arranged in swahilly or alien code source.
I see that now from another commenter. But I wouldn’t want to turn off the excellent flicker reduction either… perhaps toggle it when shooting out in natural light? Really shouldn’t be necessary, though (as it isn’t necessary to make that trade off with Sony bodies, and this is also a Sony fabbed (but not designed) sensor)).
I think you have to use a camera more than an weekend to truly set it up where you’d be getting the max performance. Just having the wrong settings in menu can drastically change your personal view on performance . Thanks for the fair review !
@@WesPerry it wasn’t a criticism, it’s just many well known TH-cam influencers get cameras to try for a short time and Then say well the auto focus isn’t as on par with others but Nikon just uses different options to achieve the same performance but might be foreign to someone use to another system , I’m sure once you’ve tried more of the AF options and there are many including customizable areas you’d probably find the right one for each case use
I've heard/seen the low res EVF comment many times before, going back to the Z6/7 and also for other brands that still use a 3.69M dot EVF panel. But then I see others say (Chris and Jordan I believe was one set of people) that the EVF in the Z8/Z9 is one best EVF experiences available today. I personally have only used EVFs up to a little under 6M dots, but even on the both Z7 cameras I owned and now on my Z8, I have no issues seeing clearly if I'm in focus (I'm 53 and wear glasses), whether before magnifying or after (I see no reason at all to ever magnify beyond 100% because when I check my images at 100% in camera on the EVF, it's very easy to see if it's sharp/in focus). Nikon uses great glass in EVFs on their Z mount cameras also. I've owned Sony mirrorless, Panasonic, Fuji, Olympus...and the Nikon mirrorless camera EVFs so far (to me) have been the best, most natural/pleasing experience so far. The color, brightness, clarity...it's great. Everyone has their own opinion though (and their own eyes), so one man's great can be another man's mediocre. I'd just argue though, that the 'low res' EVF in the Z9/Z8 is often unfairly judged by people who don't use these cameras on a daily basis.
It is very much a personal preference thing. For me, my eyes are good enough that I can Always see the pixels, and the black lines between the pixels. Which is fine on an a7iv or a Z6ii, they cost half as much. But once you get up into this pricing territory it’s just not something I expect to see anymore 😬
@@WesPerry I just looked at the EVF in my Z8. I set the EVF brightness to +5 and made some photos of white paper and a white plastic bottle. I honestly don't see any discernable black lines between pixels (and I'm not seeing individual pixels) at normal viewing (in the EVF) or at 100%. Maybe I'm just old. That's some serious pixel peeping though. As a general practice, I tend to concentrate on my subject though.
And I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just being honest about what my eyes see. Anyway, I've been very happy with the EVF experience. It works well enough for me that I don't even think of the EVF. I just shoot. I did reduce the size of the shooting display also because if it's full width, with glasses (for me) it's more difficult to see the edges of the frame, so I use the setting to make the EVF display a tab bit smaller. If I want to be 100% sure of focus after I take a shoot, that's when I press the OK button while reviewing an image, to check the sharpness at 100%
I can’t say I’ve heard anyone say that yet 🤔 everyone else I’ve viewed reviews from were quite consistent with my finding. I didn’t have time to film side by side autofocus testing like that (not that I ever do anyway. Too many variables to have truly objective testing there). As I said, I did test it side by side with the a9 and a7iv in extremely low light, and it traded blows with the a9, where the a1 pretty handily beats the a9 in essentially every focusing task. The a7iv found faces and eyes in smaller/further subjects than either of them, but also doesn’t match their hit rates in any lighting, which I always find to be odd. Great recognition, not as swift to focus. You can believe it or not. NBD. In both low light and daylight it missed a pretty uncomfortable number of shots for me (more than usable, but should be better at that price point and level of tech), and failed to find eyes and faces where the a9 and a7iv I was using alongside did. And wait, who is a “pro”? Haha
@@WesPerry well said. In the end who are the pros? There are pro reviewers that take terrible images because they are not pro photographers. I like your true perspective as you are pro in both worlds, and even quite technical being an electronic guru I see. Anyway, bottom line at the end of the day is specs can draw a marketing view, but it cannot prove accuracy, repeatability and system confidence in some or all environments and lighting situations. Couples dancing, party lights, live performances, dark corner stage, rehearsals, darker backstage, corporate meetings, conferences, wedding prep, so many places that a great camera can still fail.
@@WesPerry Sam Hurd's recent Nikon Z9 video says that the Z9's autofocus was on par or even better than his Canon R3 so the Z8 autofocus should be keeping up with the Sony's.
Unfortunately my time with the camera was limited. Even so I probably spent about 4 hours in the menu, and several more hours in the manual and googling things. And they say Sony menus are bad... these new Nikon menus with all the new mirrorless settings are quite possibly even worse due to the way they're broken down. Since they all have touch screens, we should be able to search for menu items in the camera, and not have to pull up and search the user manual on the Nikon website (which I kept open on my phone the whole time 😂). But every manufacturer tries their darnedest to use non-standard terms for everything, which makes it even More difficult to set up a camera. Ugh.
Actually the a1 and a7Rv EVF have a 120Hz refresh rate as well, but drop down about the same res as the Z8 at that speed. It’s a choice there. It’s nice to have a choice! The a1 can go as high as 240Hz. There’s some discussion about latency at that point, but I’ve never been a wildlife photographer so this isn’t really on my radar at the level all the cameras operate.
@@WesPerry In a coment above, someone said that while turned on, the flicker reduction will automatically kick in only when needed. But does that mean that blackout will be automatically turned on and off as flicker is detected, or will it stay on while the whole time?
Not sure. At all shutter speeds from 2s to 1/32,000s I had blackout, both indoor and outdoor, so it’s apparently not as simple as that. I never turned off flicker reduction, though.
@@WesPerry TH-cam videos under the name consumertechwarehouse. It’s a start up I did last year everything there was shot on an a7iv and the. A7rv. Other than that small photography sessions for friends and family. But mostly it’s a hobby.
Same here. I’ve used the z9 alongside the A1 and A7RV. I sold my A1 due to the old flip screen style as I shot more from the hip. The A7RV has been solid but I’ve loved the z9 more so I knew when I got the z8, I’ll have to make a sacrifice. I still have the 50 1.2 GM and 70-200 ii that I use on the z8-9 via the megadap and it’s pretty tremendous/. I even upset the Nikon rep saying so.
During low light AF, If you have a 1.4 aperture lens vs a 2.8, Aperture does not close down until you take the shot so wouldn't you automatically get better focus because of the extra light up until shutter pressed ?
@@WesPerry Thanks for info, I didn't know that, might have to always use largest aperture from now on in low light. (was sometimes using F4 when 1.8 was available as i didn't know it had any affect, wanted a safety margin for depth of field in certain circumstances - bad habit from DSLR days)
It can certainly cause some frustration. Like with the new Viltrox 16 1.8. Great lens, but low light AF isn’t great, and if you stop it down in low light? You’re getting into manual focus territory because the camera just won’t leverage that ability to open the aperture for more light. Now to be clear, it WILL pop the aperture when in AF-S mode, but this is very troublesome because you’re not really supposed to use the camera in AF-S for almost anything anymore (even by Sony’s own admission). In AF-C it won’t do this. The reason why has got to be some terrible engineering compromise. Give me a menu option to turn it on!
@@WesPerryThis is one big advantage of Canon’s AF that I really appreciated when I switched from the Z6II to R5. AF happens wide open regardless of shooting aperture (even in servo/af-c).
I think Nikon lenses have a more significant focus shift. If the camera focused wide open, that would result in blurry images, unless some magic and calibration is performed for each specific lens. Focusing with set aperture is more consistent.
Fun and honest review from a Sony shooter. Been werking with the Z8 for 2 weeks and i love it! Little heavy and need Some extra battery ‘s. But super happy with it!
I love my Z8. Just as I loved my D850. Very honest review though. Being a longtime Nikon shooter, you easily get used to the dials and layout for most shooting scenarios. I go from portraits to wildlife with no problem.
Question: Has their been an update that improved the autofocus in low light please on the Z8? I have an A7 IV and am seriously thinking of getting this. But as I shoot a lot of video in low light that is an important factor. I can't worry about it losing focus if filming a speaker at an event for instance.
My friend who owns this camera installed the latest update and hasn’t found much improvement. In even slightly low light it doesn’t perfectly nail eye-af 1/4 of the time. It might be Faster to focus than the a7iv, but it disappointingly still seems to have a lower hit rate for perfectly normal stuff.
In really dark place like Theater, I would suggest turning on the "Starlight" mode. Also the 3D tracking when shooting in dark theater was not the right AF mode either. 3rd party eyecup would solve your nose/screen issue.
What Is the best AF mode then? If I’m shooting ballet dancers running and jumping around the stage at ISO16,000 I still need it to track and focus reliably.
I quoted the lowest you’ll get, as it’s not entirely simple, and knew someone would say I misquoted it if I went for the higher numbers. There’s occasionally a compatibility issue when using the higher speed priority sync (not that I had any such issue with Godox flashes) helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2040/v1/en/contents/TP1000426662.html#:~:text=The%20flash%20sync%20speed%20is%201%2F320%20second%20when%20shooting,in%20the%20APS%2DC%20size.
Nice job -- and I agree with most of your findings - I am at odds however with a couple but since I am me and you are you that is fine. The fricking VF resolution again -- rot. I am over 1m shots in on a pair of Z9 and no issues with the EVF - the Z8 and Z9 have the same EVF. Blackout happens at very slow shutter speeds ONLY. You were below the 1/8th threshold where blackout free is disabled. Shoot between 1/8th and 1/250 the evf is not refreshed at 1/120th or 1/60th be less frequently so may appear to stutter -- this is stuff you learn as you learn the camera over long use. CFE-B -vs- CFE-A -- do I need to say more. Yes the UHS-ii/SD was a disappointment. But Nikon had to make compromises. Almost no hybrid cameras (I found 2) can write directly to an SSD - the main complaint is folk tring to use cheap storage solutions -- Don't buy a Bentley if you cannot afford the petrol !! Who shoots video with full back up to both cards - very few and adds to heat gain? For most resolutions/formats/fps - just plug in an external recorder via HDMI - you can either write full res to an internal card OR remove the cards and export upto 4320/30p or 2160/120p. For me just by a stack of v large TB ultra fast cards and get the best unless you need ultra long recordings when an external recorder is by far the best option -- reduces heat gain and large SSDs can be used. Read the fine print w'r't HDMI formats and bit depth when using HDMI. Use Profoto not cheap lights!!! OR here is a thought don't shoot at 1/32000th with flash. The hope was to have 1/400th sync speed -- but 1/250th is ok. Battery life is fine - just carry spares (I carry 4 $50 batteries and can shoot for a very long time, and recharge them in my bag as I go with a power bank and simply usb-c charger) or plug in power delivery to a 99 Whr power bank or V-battery. Yes -- we want Zebras back in photo and a few more video centric displays/info for cine work. Use the hoodman eyecup and you will find your hugh nose does not hit the nubbin - well not as often Yes Nikon please keep improving the AF. I have not found the same issue as you did in low light, but then I do not have other brands of FF bodies to compare too.
Are you saying this has better auto focus than the R5, R6 ii, and a7 IV?? Am I hearing that right? I would pick this up in a heart beat if it is similar to the R5, which I've owned and loved. I'm seeing other reviewers say it can't even hold up to an R8.
Yes, however there is a bit ol But there. To get the most out of the Z8 and Z9 AF systems takes days/weeks of research and practice. Learning focus modes and finding out what functions best suit your particular use case. Without obsessive tweaking, it would be a little worse than those cameras you’ve listed. With obsessive tweaking, it’s above those, but still just below the R3 and a1. This creates a really difficult judgement call when it comes to rating and comparison. If I can pick up an R6ii or a9ii and just have it focus better out of the box than a Z8, which actually has better AF? 🤔 Very troublesome, and just another signal of how Nikon is still a bit behind at the moment. The hardware they released is astonishingly good, but the firmware still needs refinement. Thankfully they are very clearly on it, and supporting these cameras for a long time.
reason to buy A7RV when Z8 exists? Well... As someone outside of mirrorless world deciding whether to go Nikon or Sony (or buy used D850 for normal photo and used A7R3 for vintage manual lenses - here as a sony user I would ask you - will IBIS work with A7R3 as you described - set up focal length and good to go, or is that a feature in newer sony bodies?), I would say there is currently one really big reason. Lenses. its just hard to ignore range of awesome (and somehow affordable) Sigma and Tamron lenses for Sony-E mount, which arent there for Nikon Z mount. Also ergonomics, although I would prefer bigger body, 3 wheels and many custom buttons are advantage. So, concidering mechanical shutter for A7R5 which eliminates rolling shutter problems of slow sensor, and no video (there still are many people who use photo camera just for photos), I think A7R5 is still a great option even when Z8 exists (and in my country is even cheaper by around 1-2% than A7RV)
3rd party lenses are coming! Nikon has already started working with Tamron, and I'm sure Sigma will come soon, and there are already many manual and AF options from lesser known lens brands, some of which are surprisingly decent. And you can adapt to not only older Nikon F-mount lenses quite seamlessly, but the z mount is I believe the shortest flange distance and largest flange opening of all the brands, so you can adapt to most other mounts currently available.
@@VikingMultimediaYT thats the thing, they are comming. Another question is whether they are working only on new lenses or adapting existing ones to Nikon. Both ways it will take several years for Nikon to catch up with Sony in 3rd party lens support, by then we wont be talking about A7R5 vs Z8 but A7R6 vs Z8 II or something according those lines. Currently support its lacking. As for adapting, concidering everything is electronic theese days (even manual focus on autofocus lenses is often focus by wire) it would be hard if not impossible to adapt from other mirrorless systems as you cant just use 0,96mm metal plate as in old days when you wanted to adapt M42 screw to Sony-A mount, you need electronic chip that translate data, rewire connections etc. Havent seen any of those under 2cm length yet, let alone 2mm which is flange distance between Nikon Z and Sony E.
@@WesPerry It does really exist, nice :D Googling it found 3 different models released all around 250$, so 400$ sounds about right for EU market :D For Nikon shooters thats actually awesome price for expanded options. If it really works and works well (sometimes especially 3rd party lenses dont work even with official adapters - I have bought heavily discounted Sigma lens that for original owner havent communicated with mirrorless system despite having official Sony-A to Sony-E adapter)
As for the low light af…isnt every camera metering its af with open aperture? The a9 thus was able to meter/measure af distance with 2stops extra light and then stopped down to 2.8 for the shot of course, but im almost certain that for distance metering all cameras use the lens wide open.
Sony usually only does this in AF-S, as their system isn’t designed to do this in AF-C. In some newer Sony bodies you can set it to do so, but it introduces lag, because again it was never made to operate that way.
@@WesPerry Agreed. There are other setting like d12 and d13 that need to be enabled but that's the one that makes the biggest difference in my opinion.
While I love camera comparisons, I don’t feel you understand the Nikon Z8/Z9 menus system to get the best results out your shooting experience. Example; there is no blackout at all on either my Z8 or Z9 when taking a photo. There is absolutely no blackout when you push the shutter. Even with that being said, I appreciate your video.
See the pinned comment please But also I have since found there are three or four separate menu items that can cause blackout if you have them enabled. Kindof crazy. th-cam.com/video/cu83FpSSbSE/w-d-xo.html
I've never encountered black out. My batteries last as long as they did on the D780 DSLR. Handling and usability is what you're used to. A bit of a homer review but I enjoyed it.
For me the biggest issue with the Nikon Z system is the size and weight of my favorite lens: the 50mm f1.2. The Sony version of this lens is much smaller and lighter and focuses a lot faster. Concerning the autofocus I can say it has become a lot better with firmware 2.0.
Re low light focusing: i think the a9 might open the aperture back to f1.4 to focus in low light? I am not sure about that, but that might explain the low light difference. in any case, it is weird that the z8 low light focus was that poor. Mine tracked a brown rabbit against a brown field 1h after sunset perfectly, with an f5.6 lens (70-200 with 2x TC)
The a9 only does this in AF-S, a mode which isn’t terribly useful for anything other than landscapes and real estate photography. Shooting theatre and ballet on a dark stage this isn’t a viable option, unfortunately.
You hava the choice. (In te sony menu at The "Aperture Drive in AF " ho can choose standard (is the default ),Silent Priority,And Focus Priority,in stnadard maces the camera the decision to open the aperture when focusing in low light or Not,And with the Focus priority settings The camera automaticaly opens the apperture to the max vhen focusing .
Based on ergonomics alone, I had to get rid of my Sony A7IV after six months of trying to get used to it. I don’t have large hands and it was still too compact to comfortably use. Even my Lumix G9 was easier to handle and navigate. The Nikon Z8 is on my radar for a full frame replacement system exactly because of its size and handling.
Just playing with it again today, and as long as you turn on Flicker Reduction indoors (When it should Always be on for safety) you do get a blackout still. On Sony cameras this doesn't cause blackout, but it does on the Z8/Z9 unfortunately. But that feature is too important to turn off if you're doing client work, too risky without it, so blackout it is!
About the battery life issue, Z8 has 2 USB-C ports, I just bring a external Power Bank with USB-C connection. Note, must use USB-C to USB-C cable to get it working.
Another note about those ports, when you’re shooting tethered in the studio, you have to use Two cables if you want it to charge while shooting all day 😩 Contacted Nikon and there is indeed no way to do charge and data in the same port like every other camera. Ugh. One step forward, two steps back.
In their defence, they basically squeezed a Z9 down into that body. So I would sooner say, "I'm glad this isn't as big as the Z9" haha. But yes, I too would prefer that it be smaller, but at least the grip is incredibly ... umm... grippy. Lots to hold on to. But as I said in the video, I do find it's a bit more exhausting to use due to the size and weight. There's a lot going on in there, though!
Last weekend, my first real shoot with my new Z8 garnered 3476 frames and used less than 50% of the El-EN18c battery. But then, my use case is using the EVF versus the live screen with lots of burst shooting. Today, I did about 150 landscape shots in the garden live screen along with a hike in a local state park with my wife, again using life view regularly for that total of 150 shots with 62% battery remaining. Not great, but not terrible as you suggest. Yes, the battery on my Z9 is a beast that laughs at a full day of shooting, but that's why I bought the battery grip for the Z8 when I'm shooting over 5000 frames in a few hours, with mostly burst shooting (shooting dog movement in conformation dog shows). The battery performance in my Z8 certainly isn't any worse than my old Z6ii and Z7ii. Is the autofocus really an 8 out of 10? I know the autofocus system for both Sony and Canon are said to be a step better than the Nikon Z9 and Z8. But, my hit rate is about 96 percent or better. I think there is a definite learning curve on the Nikon AF system, but 8 out of 10? Hardly. Now, the Z7ii and Z6ii are about an 8 out of 10, but the Z9 and Z8 are closer to 9.5.
@@WesPerry My bad!! Sorry about that. I've heard that Sony's are easy for just about anyone to pick up and take a beautiful image with, so I'll give you that. I've been using Nikon's for about 20 years, so the handling and usability with the Z8 is wonderful in my mind, although I wish Darrell Young would write one of his great "Mastering the Nikon....." books for the Z9 and Z8. They've helped me a ton to learn the D750, the D850, the Z6ii and Z7ii, and the new cameras get more complex with every iteration. For years I've using Single Point Autofocus and Wide Area with Animal Eye Detection autofocus to capture dog movement, but I've finally bought into Nikon's 3D Tracking autofocus with Animal Eye Detection. On most local or regional dog shows, there are lots of dogs in the ring, or just outside the ring, at the same time and lots of clutter in the background, so single point autofocus helped me to keep locked on the dog while I developed my panning skills. But 3D tracking is amazing. Given that Sony and Canon have been using a variation of this for years, I finally understand what I've been missing. Size-wise; I get that Sony likes to make things small, but honestly, the Nikon Z7ii and Z6ii were a bit small for my liking, kind of the size of a Sony. 🙂
Yeah that’s one of the big issues I could certainly go either way on with the Z8 and Z9. SO MANY people have said “oh, just spend this many hours/days getting it set up Just right for what you do, and create presets for each thing that you do and it’s AMAZING!” But… but… on newer Sony cameras you just switch to Real Time Tracking (should be on by default, but it’s in the top level options and linked to a shortcut button), and you’re good for almost Anything. All the other myriad functions and features you can take or leave. Should a person Really have to spend that much time customizing their camera? I’ve spoken to many very seasoned photographers who returned their new Sony/Nikon/Canon mirrorless cameras for a Leica or Hasselblad because they turned it on, realized they’d have to spend time in the menu’s and said “NOPE!” And bought something that just works the way it’s intended straight out of the box. Us tinkerers are actually a small minority in the photography community, and many Less seasoned photographers I know have literally never even pressed the menu button on their camera before. They have no idea why there would be a reason to. If their cameras do or don’t do something, even if it’s a function hidden in the menu, they just accept it and move on with their day. Crazy what a different world us nerds live in 😂
@@WesPerry LOL My wife would agree as many times as I've spent a month of evenings reading a 600 page Darrell Young book so I could get a clue on how my new camera works. And, for certain use cases, you're just as well off staying old school. But, the old school technology frustrated me with decreasing the likelihood of capturing that perfect moment that I was after.
Excuse me? I wish to buy a new camera and I was aiming towards the A7R5 instead of the Z8, specially because its IBIS is advertised to be better. Have you felt any difference? Thanks.
Yeah the ibis is pretty clearly better in practice. It’s the best I’ve seen. Canon’s can be more Aggressive, but it also results in a lot of weird wobbling at the edges sometimes.
If the auto focus is being compared to a $6500 A1 wouldn’t you say that’s a win for the Z8 I’m just a construction contractor looking to use it for job site documentation and advertisement.
I don't understand why people are upset with this video. Except when you talk about the blackout, which I think is totally the opposite of what you say (I mean it is NO lag -important- and blackout free), the rest I quite agree and you even gave it a high score in all aspects
The Z8 is just an incredible camera in every way. It has so many features that many won't use them all but so what. I personally don't need such high video features. I've been shooting for 60 yesrs and with nikon for 30 or so and I can say thst the Z8 is by far the best all rounder camera I've ever had..
Oh hey there Wes... I really liked this review because it was so neutral. You wanted to love and did a bit, but with the freedom to nit pick as we should before unloading such investment for our own long term pro use. I also liked your banding test as the 3 different types of lighting are the same as an event photographer experiences (as you would know). Those fairy lights catch me so often out of phase, I hope to get an A9ii one day with the anti flicker in silent shutter mode but my A9, no good, just drop shutter speed if possible. A7iii has anti flicker in mechanical shutter only. Anyway the banding of cheaper indoor lighting, or even on stage auditorium lighting (not all), is everywhere. Very tough to shoot indoor corporate stuff needing ambient lighting. Z8 did a lot right, but as usual... Nothings perfect. Thanks again.
This camera looks fantastic and ots great than every brand now has a camera that can shoot silently. I think sonus main advantage is on the lens choices now
Have been shooting nikon for 5 years, Am even happy with my z6ii &z6, sometimes I Use sony but the menu kills me, I miss focus with sony A7iii. But my frind loves it and he doesnt miss. After getting comfortable with a system , you learn how to use is. Thats what I can say.
Really great review. It’s good to get perspectives from users of other systems. Nikon should use those views for feedback and improvements. Confused at the “no manual ibis” part. I haven’t tried mf lenses on Z8 but older Z cameras have that capability. Did you try the non CPU Lens data setting? Also a setting must have been off if you had blackout so not surprised low light af struggled because my Z9 can see in the dark haha Also curious how much af struggles were because of unfamiliarty? Were you using 3D, custom area, full area, what picture profile, focus or release priority, was energy saving on? My Z9 rarely misses so I’m wondering if Z8 is truly an equal.
I was using 3D with custom area, shooting RAW redundant to both cards, release priority balanced, no energy saving. And I wouldn’t say it was a struggle, just not as tip top as expected.
@@WesPerry thanks for that info, keep up the great work! I did some digging and there’s some that think the flicker reduction blackout issue is a bug Nikon has yet to fix. Although the blackout should be just the first frame. So also try these settings: d13 (view all in continuous mode) isn't OFF - it should be ON Select Type B under d14
I did go through the entire camera menu before taking a single shot with it actually (took about 2 hours). Unfortunately not all the menu items have obvious names, so further research is required to really get it done. But here’s the thing with “further research”: the manual for the Z8 is 948 pages long. Just English language, no exaggeration, it’s 948 pages. So while I likely spent hours in the manual as well, it’s literally impossible to get it all down without several weeks of study. But here’s the kicker: most of the most seasoned photographers I’ve met, dozens of them, have told me they’ve never once gone into the menu of their camera. If it’s not a shortcut button or in the function menu, it’s just not happening. They rely on the manufacturer to set it up in a usable manner from the factory. I’ve even spoken to a few who sold a camera and bought a new one because they realized they’d have to spend time customizing it, time they didn’t have, and ordered another that didn’t require this. Use diving technophiles are a very tiny minority of the camera community, believe it or not (I have a degree in electrical engineering for goodness sake. I’m Not the typical target market). If hours if not weeks of research and modification is required to get the job done well, the manufacturer has utterly failed in their job. Nikon is by no means the only offender here. Both Sony and Canon also have some utterly confounding defaults and bizarre naming conventions. How about that the Sony a7iv will overheat while taking photos (not even Video!) unless you change a menu item? Absolutely absurd 🤦🏻♂️
This particular unit has experienced none of these things (is still in very regular use today, still with none of these issues), as such it was indeed not mentioned.
Most if not all reviewers that uses Sony doesn't mention that since A73 launch Sony devoted most of their Bionz X processing power to Auto Focus that's why a lot of other things or features sucks. No reviewers points out that A1 has two (2) Bionz X processor 1 is dedicated only to Auto focus and yet it still sucks on other features. On the otherhand, Expeed 7 and Digic X perfoms better overall even with only 1 processor. IMHO
A7R5 and R5 user shooting landscape and causal wildlife (400mm) for light weight hiking around. Like R5 AF during low light low contrast, superb EVF; dislike its mon not fully tilt/flip, RF lens not open, 1/8000s, 30s shutter limits, +- 3EV exposure compensation, slow shutdown (wait for curtain close switching lens) Like A7R5 lens choices, dials, good AF tracking; dislike its poor EVF, weak low light AF, poor S&Q options for timelapse, slow shutdown (wait for curtain closes switching lens) Like (on spec) the Z8 1/32000, M mode extend shutters, user friendly options for timelapse; surprised to know from your review its low light AF problem, EVF; dislike its less ideal ergo, heavy, lens choices. Thats very important to me.
About the blackout: I saw a video (th-cam.com/video/cu83FpSSbSE/w-d-xo.html) about this and it says that the blackout is caused by the flicker reduction turned on. The camera may need time to figure out the LED frequencies.
I shoot everything and i mean dslr mirrorless , film cameras of the old school era i grew up in late seventies and 80s , nikon z 8 is awesome, learn modes and mikd settings be better for you , brands are not to be bashed
I am switching to Sony after playing with the Nikon Z8 for a bit. I go street shooting with a friend, and his Sony would consistently get shots the Z8 would fail to get. Z8 just wasn't working for me.
My friend who owns this camera is still having issues with consistency of eye-af, even after all the firmware updates. Very frustrating how they’re so close but still not quite there yet.
@@WesPerry Agreed. In every aspect Sony and Canon outpaced Nikon. This was done over weeks comparing various shots. Its incredibly disappointing because I loved the Nikon DSLRs but they have fallen significantly behind in the mirrorless arena.
I still keep feeling like they’re just one firmware away from getting it. All the hardware is totally “there” now. Just one piece of the puzzle missing. But… when?
Great review as always! I would looooove a Z8, but I'm really, really curious to see what comes in the Z6III/Z7III...I suspect we'll know by end of year. If money was no object, I'd buy that Z8 though as I'm already a Z shooter (z6II).
Yeah I think the Z7iii will really be the camera for most people and pros, if and when it finally comes around. As long as they don’t do something crazy with it haha
Been shooting the Z6II for a couple of years. I just caved and ordered a Z8 a few days ago, even though I was thinking the same thing... A Z6III with the video codec options from the Z8/Z9 and updated AF performance would have really been the sweet spot for me. Don't need 45MP stills or 8k in video yet, but I'm desperate for more reliable AF and RAW or at least 10-bit video. My Z6III wish list would be to keep the resolution to 24MP or so and offer 6k oversampled RAW video. If they got the autofocus right and added a higher second native ISO it could be an A7SIII killer.
@@VikingMultimediaYT yep, completely agree, I don’t have the loonies for a Z8 myself and it’s way more than I need, right now. But a Z6III with a few improvements definitely would be good. 📸😎
I own both z6 &z6ii am thinking of z8 but again it's an overkill, if I can only get 10bit, 4k 120 & log without atomos.... in z6iii, I will sell my z6 to fund it😊
Im almost ready to switch systems to nikon… i like this very negative review as it helps dampening a potential overhype… My main reason for switching is simply Sonys Color/Gamut handling. Skintones are fine in good light, but they get pink and nasty so quickly in mixed light or low light. Part of it is Sonys Color science part is surely whitebalance. Im a wedding shooter as well, so a lot of not-ideal light situations all the time and Sony really makes me work superhard in Post to get the images ok…rarely am i 100% happy with the files tho… Fuji does this best, but apsc completely fell apart in bad lighting as well and their af is an absolute joke (focusing wrong eye in still sitting subjekts sometimes 50% of all images taken even tho green box was on the correct eye all the time…) So im curious…is nikons colour actually THAT much better in testing? Is the AF THAT much worse? I dont care if i „only“ get 80% hitrate vs. 95% with Sony, if the resulting images then blow me away im good with that…
@@WesPerry a7s3 and a7mk4, gmaster glass 90% (35 1.4, 50 1.4, 135). The af was quite good and delivered around 90% hitrate all things combined. I felt the a74 to be worse then the a7s3. Like said: id take good base colour over the last 5% Af-hitrate anyday…
But… then the camera won’t look as Cool anymore! Very important! Haha But more of an issue is I’d need a new camera bag as this one barely fit in mine 😂
I’ve been a Nikon wildlife shooter for decades. But when they took over a year and a half to deliver a 400 or 600 prime - I used that gap to explore Sony. I was able to go out and buy - no supply chain issues from Sony - a A1, A7rV, 400, 600, 200-600, 90 macro. Several dealers had all these items in stock - allow for a competitive set of quotes. I concur with your findings. I have both the Z9 and Z8 and they consistently miss shots the Sony easily gets. I use to think the Nikon has better ergonomics but the Sony with a grip extension or vertical grip works fine for those with larger hands shooting big primes. So, my heart and muscle memory is with Nikon - but my brain says pick up the Sony you fool. When I have an important shoot I absolutely grab the Sony A1. I have sooooo much Nikon gear I’ll likely keep it but the Sony is now the go-to kit - at least for wildlife/action.
for wildlife photography Nikon is becoming the better option, mostly due to the new lenses like the 400mm f/2.8 and 600mm f/4, both with excellent IQ and a TC available at a finger move
@@raynerp good point - i have the Nikon 400 with the TC and its very handy. i also have the 100-400 (ok but not great) and the 800 (amazingly light). so for sure the built in tc is a plus but i dont see any quality difference with SONY ( compared to the lens above i own.) the rep of the 600 seems good - but very hard to find and purchase. i'll be testing out version 4 - you might be right if they can improve the AF.
@@WesPerry Nikon is the underdog right now so people are willing to overlook a lot of their very obvious flaws. My high-end Z8 misses shots that my midrange A7IV nails every time. In low light, my Z8's subject detection is essentially completely useless-- even with starlight mode turned on (which I'm sick of Nikon shooters recommending-- it's a hack, pure and simple, and it was never intended to be used this way). Meanwhile my A7IV is nailing eye AF in almost complete darkness.
a 1.4 lens will still have 4 times as much light to work with than a 2.8 lens, no matter what stop you've set it to. Put a 2 stop Nd on it, then compare
Yeah it’s been a point of contention with Sony users since day one. Lots of speculation as to why they do this, but presumably just something to do with moving subjects and shifting apertures interferes with actually shooting?
There is not a perfect camera. I am thinking of a Z8 but love my Z7ll. My friends who have sony and canon are very happy with what they have. Things that you see. We don't. Not pros. I like your review. I do agree they should have made a better AF. They were behind. Low battery. Answer just carry another battery or batteries. The Z lens are great. Now to the important thing. Your Nose. Not a deal breaker. Sorry you have problems with it. Your just used to such a small camera. It would really be huge if you shot with the old Minox camera lol. Great review. Keep the nose.
I have one on order that I am waiting for. I am switching from a Sony A7R3 (with a fair sized "herd" of Sony lenses) to the Z8. I am an amateur and shoot a wide variety to subjects from Landscapes to Astro to Birds in Flight/Wildlife to Aviation, and the feature set of this camera is almost like Nikon tailored it to my specific needs. The one thing that I was not aware that this camera does not have that you mentioned is the Zebra Stripes in photo mode. As you said, once you use them they are pretty much essential. Hopefully, Nikon will add them in a future firmware update.
There is no shutter in the Nikon z8 and there is no blackout what the hell are you talking about, man I own the sony a7r5 and the z8 yes, your correct about the autofocus but not the blackout
The first reviewer that isn't a total fan boy. Yeah, the stacked sensor is great (and all cameras above the $3500 mark should have it - eventually). BTW, the a7rv rear screen has the same resolution + its tilting & fully articulated... as for the AF (the a7rv has 200 more AF points for reference). The z8 is a great value, Nikon did right at pricing it very competitive to increase their market share. IMHO, I feel their lens line up isn't complete and the ones they have are way to heavy & bulky.
But have you used the a7Rv in broad daylight? I did in Mexico and oh boy. Can’t see a thing on that screen still. But the Z8 will burn the eyes right out of you 😂 Sony should be putting high end 1000nit smartphone OLED’s on their high end cameras. So annoying.
@@WesPerry yes, I mainly shoot on the beach during mid-day sun. I use “sunny” setting. But, yes, the “nits” could be much better. However the actually resolution is exactly the same.
@@WesPerry TBH, you lost me 10 mins in … it skipped to the end 😂. Regarding lens, I was thinking the of testing Sony lenses with an adapter by Megadap. Previous reviews have been pretty good…
I almost ordered it. Maybe I’ll get in touch with the company. It’s much too expensive for me to buy when I don’t actually own a Z8 and have to beg / borrow. I did get the “dumb” adapter to use my many manual e-mount lenses on it, when it when I discovered that I couldn’t get ibis to work on those manual lenses like you can on Sony bodies. Hopefully they’ll add manually selecting VR focal length with a firmware update sometime…
I dare say the Sony menu system is now far better than the Nikon one, which is utterly bizarre and filled with a decade of cruft. They really need to rethink that Custom Settings Menu structure. It’s sprawling and seemingly random, with settings split between the Photo and Video menus and the Custom Settings menus with no rhyme or reason.
@@WesPerry Hahahaha. I'm actually looking at replacing my D750s, whose shutters are failing (Even after being replaced), and I've got a Z6 that just doesn't cut it for sports. I only recently saw that A9 prices aren't that much higher than A7III prices, so have been tempted at that stacked sensor for sports shooting. I do alternate quickly between flash and no flash settings with my Nikons, so I rely on being able to hold down a button to disable it, then release to fire the flash at the perfect time, then go back to holding the button down. I am worried the Sonys won't have something similar, or won't be able to replicate that as quickly.
@majorredbeard as far as I know there’s no way to do that on Sony. I usually just click the power button on the flash controller off and on for that. Also, the a9 is kinda miserable to use with flash. The mechanical shutter is Very slow.
@@WesPerry Ah yes, I did read that the 5fps mech shutter feels pretty limiting. All I really would care about is that I can nail the timing of the flash shot. So far every mirrorless I've seen is slightly delayed so I can't rely on the viewfinder to "time" a shot. I'll admit there's a LOT of things I like about my current Nikon setup, espcially how holding down the button to temporarily disable flash also re-enables Auto ISO, and allows the shutter speed to go above the Sync speed, so you sort of have two modes you can really quickly flick between. Even the Z6 behaves this way, and I'm sure the Z8 does too.
Two corrections:
1) The blackout is apparently selectable and came on by default (an odd choice). It is changed in the menu item “indicator type”. Blackout can also be cause by low shutter speeds (which wasn’t my issue), or flicker reduction, which I wouldn’t recommend turning off unless shooting outside, as it’s an important feature for a sensor with no mechanical shutter, and works very well in this camera.
It can also be caused by a specified shutter indication. Many potential causes! More on that: th-cam.com/video/cu83FpSSbSE/w-d-xo.html
2) IBIS/VR for manual lenses can be selected in the menu item “Non-CPU lens data” (Not in the VR menu, another odd choice). It can’t be as quickly customized as on a Sony camera, and using this function with a manual lens lowers the amount of VR available.
Here are my corrections: th-cam.com/video/xPq5mhvFY0Q/w-d-xo.html
I have the Z8 and so does my friend. Both of ours came by default with No Blackout.I think yours was the odd one. You said you borrowed it. Is it possible the person you borrowed it from had changed that setting?
Disable flicker reduction, and no blackouts in low light shooting
they have a rubber cup for the eyepiece that would move that nubbin away from your beak. (technically beak away from your nubbin.) Nikon dark focus has always been sucky... even the majestic D850. The reason I wouldn't buy is the "pro-button" layout that Nikon won't let go of.
My Z8 come with no blackout. Maybe the person you borrowed from changed the setting?
While you've used Sony with success, the Z8 has settings to fine tune many of the problems you have highlighted. In a Nikon users hands it'll clearly perform much better.
I spent Hours fine tuning it and it still wasn’t there. Should it take That much?? 😩
@@WesPerry well, as a sony user, you have all the muscle memory using sony that you need to contend with when dealing with the finer setup of other systems.
@@WesPerry lol you think you'll get the most out of the Z8/Z9 AF system in a couple hours!? You're delusional. The Sony's are more of a point and shoot style where is more ready for consumers. The Z8/Z9 is a pro flagship body and will take a bit of a larger learning curve.
I just ordered a Z8, but I’m concerned with the poor AF performance. Anyone who’s shot Sony a9ii/a1/a7rx or Canon R5+, you know what good autofocus is.
The Z8 seems to miss focus a lot, and for no apparent reason. Even in still scenarios.
@@KruiserIV Some just able to lean the Nikon AF system fully. I have friends that are still struggling with the Z9 18 months after owning it. I along with other friends have no issues with the AF on the Z9, getting high hit/keeper rate (90%+ the majority of the time).
So the question is rather obvious, if the AF is so hard or so far behind Sony and Canon, how are some users nothing have the same issues as others? If it was the hardware or firmware everyone would have the same issues and they don't. I say this all the time. Sony is the most point and shoot, most ready for amateurs and consumers. Canon is in-between and Nikon is the most pro flagship and requires an advanced skill set. You will need to use the 12" BEHIND the camera for the best results. Nikon has some room to make to make it closer to the point and shoot. But it is in no way less capable then Sony or Canon
ISO and WB button can be set so you just press it once. Also there’s settings to turn that blackout on/off. I think you need more time with the camera in order to get the settings you need. 😊
On the Z9, when the flicker reduction is on you get EVF blackout at low frame rates, or on the first frame at higher rates. Once you turn FR off, you'll be blackout free.
On the Z9, when the flicker reduction is on you get EVF blackout at low frame rates, or on the first frame at higher rates. Once you turn FR off, you'll be blackout free.
Need to turn off flicker reduction = blackout free
Ohhh interesting!
But then that introduces other issues. Tough choice!
Likewise this isn’t a thing on the Sony stacked sensor models. Very odd…
@@WesPerry It's not the flicker reduction; you can leave that on. The Z8 and Z9 have a feature you can intentionally enable that shows a momentary blackout when you fire the shutter. It's for those who like the older DSLR confirmation that they've actually captured a shot. Normally this feature would be disabled by default. Normally the Z8 is 100% blackout free.
Also, the Z8 does, indeed, provide IBIS with manual lenses. I believe it drops to 3 stops, however.
As to the AF, it's highly configurable, unlike Sony cameras. You have to spend a bit of time dialing in the correct modalities for the shooting situation you're in, and then it's near flawless.
As to the differing card slots, yes, the Sonys are the same, but they are both CFExpress Type-A slots. The Z8 is CFExpress Type-B, which by itself has a write speed that is twice as fast as the Sony's Type-A slots.
Do you know what the feature is called? If it is an option (as terrible as it may be), it definitely came On by default on this one, whatever it is.
And yeah, I would definitely rather two CFE-B slots any day. But having one stuck at SD when the camera is an absolute beast is so nutty.
At least Sony gives you the Option of paying way too much for CF-A cards haha. Thankfully Angelbird has decided to come save us from That particular situation.
And is there some random option that has to be enabled for manual lens ibis? I searched for a while for that as well. As soon as I put on a manual lens the whole VR menu was just grayed out. One would think the option would be In the VR menu 🤦🏻♂️
@wesperry Wes Wes Wes... I'm only 4:18 into the video and one of your cons is incorrect. You can set IBIS manually. Look up "Non-CPU Lens" in the menu system and you can dial just about any manual lens. You can save the focal length and max aperture of upto 20 lenses. Then IBIS will react accordingly. You can even customize a Fn button and scroll wheel to select with manual lens you have put on if you shoot manal lenses often, or just save the option in "My Menu" for quicker access vs menu diving. I can hand hold a 135 f/2 Ai-s lens and the video footage is super stable. And re: viewfinder..... lower resolution than the a7RV and a1 yes, but it doesn't DROP resolution when focusing & shooting. That feature alone is a deal breaker for me and Sony. All Z's stay the same, just like an OVF and that is the point! I don't want to be reminded that I'm looking at a little TV and Sony's do. Nikon's doesn't.
I guess you missed then pinned comment 😏
And I guess my eyes are too good for the Z8 viewfinder, as I’m reminded at All times that I’m looking at a little tv, as I can Always see the pixels. 🥴
Unfortunately TH-cam no longer supports adding annotations after posting (that used to be great for stuff like this).
And if you fix issues in a video and repost it, the algorithm notices what you’re doing and shows it to absolutely no one, so that’s a total non starter. I tried it a couple times in the past and got around 10-20 views after 24 hours 😂🤦🏻♂️
Also, there is options for the buttons Re: press ISO and scroll wheel…. You can change the setting so you press and release any given button, let’s say ISO, press and release and as long as you don’t press anything else, you can change ISO with abandon. Then a half press of the shutter or pressing ISO again and you’re back into normal shooting mode. Or auto ISO and use the half press to lock the exposure and BBF to focus, boom. There are lots of options to customize shooting preferences.
@wesperrry, what AF mode were you in? Did you play with menu option a3? I find that Sony users who do a quick evaluation of Nikon products (Fro) don't explore menu items to really tailor AF to what they're shooting. In 18 months with the Z9 and now a week with the Z8 along side it, having shot about 30 weddings in that time in both photo and video, I have noooo problem in low light. Lastly... re: nose... you can get eye cups from Hoodman to distance your face from the nubbin.
I've got so use to the top information screen on my Nikons ever since I bought my first, the Nikon D90, I couldn't do without it. Thank you for your very helpful review from a different perspective.
this is a very important thing to me. So many folks don't get it, but I see you do. When I use a cannon, I call it a drop down menu, but when I use my Nikons I call it my side menus.... Pretty sure they do it to keep the end user (us) segregated into our camps, and probably prevent some strange litigation issues. I find it cumbersome for both of them. I have very little time on Sony but the menus appear to be arranged in swahilly or alien code source.
Were you using Starlight Mode with low light autofocusing?
No? I can’t say I’ve ever done astrophotography.
@@WesPerry Starlight is a setting that improves low light autofocus. Its not just for astro.
Ah well that’s… not terribly obvious? Haha
The screen blackout if configurable and you can change settings to have a blackout free experience
I see that now from another commenter. But I wouldn’t want to turn off the excellent flicker reduction either… perhaps toggle it when shooting out in natural light? Really shouldn’t be necessary, though (as it isn’t necessary to make that trade off with Sony bodies, and this is also a Sony fabbed (but not designed) sensor)).
@@WesPerry you don’t need to turn it off, it only kicks in when needed
I think you have to use a camera more than an weekend to truly set it up where you’d be getting the max performance. Just having the wrong settings in menu can drastically change your personal view on performance . Thanks for the fair review !
Yes, the manual is about a thousand pages long. Still working on it ;)
@@WesPerry it wasn’t a criticism, it’s just many well known TH-cam influencers get cameras to try for a short time and Then say well the auto focus isn’t as on par with others but Nikon just uses different options to achieve the same performance but might be foreign to someone use to another system , I’m sure once you’ve tried more of the AF options and there are many including customizable areas you’d probably find the right one for each case use
I've heard/seen the low res EVF comment many times before, going back to the Z6/7 and also for other brands that still use a 3.69M dot EVF panel. But then I see others say (Chris and Jordan I believe was one set of people) that the EVF in the Z8/Z9 is one best EVF experiences available today. I personally have only used EVFs up to a little under 6M dots, but even on the both Z7 cameras I owned and now on my Z8, I have no issues seeing clearly if I'm in focus (I'm 53 and wear glasses), whether before magnifying or after (I see no reason at all to ever magnify beyond 100% because when I check my images at 100% in camera on the EVF, it's very easy to see if it's sharp/in focus). Nikon uses great glass in EVFs on their Z mount cameras also. I've owned Sony mirrorless, Panasonic, Fuji, Olympus...and the Nikon mirrorless camera EVFs so far (to me) have been the best, most natural/pleasing experience so far. The color, brightness, clarity...it's great. Everyone has their own opinion though (and their own eyes), so one man's great can be another man's mediocre. I'd just argue though, that the 'low res' EVF in the Z9/Z8 is often unfairly judged by people who don't use these cameras on a daily basis.
It is very much a personal preference thing. For me, my eyes are good enough that I can Always see the pixels, and the black lines between the pixels. Which is fine on an a7iv or a Z6ii, they cost half as much. But once you get up into this pricing territory it’s just not something I expect to see anymore 😬
@@WesPerry I just looked at the EVF in my Z8. I set the EVF brightness to +5 and made some photos of white paper and a white plastic bottle. I honestly don't see any discernable black lines between pixels (and I'm not seeing individual pixels) at normal viewing (in the EVF) or at 100%. Maybe I'm just old. That's some serious pixel peeping though. As a general practice, I tend to concentrate on my subject though.
And I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just being honest about what my eyes see. Anyway, I've been very happy with the EVF experience. It works well enough for me that I don't even think of the EVF. I just shoot. I did reduce the size of the shooting display also because if it's full width, with glasses (for me) it's more difficult to see the edges of the frame, so I use the setting to make the EVF display a tab bit smaller. If I want to be 100% sure of focus after I take a shoot, that's when I press the OK button while reviewing an image, to check the sharpness at 100%
Can you show some tests, where the Z8 "just does not keep up" with the A1...? Because the pros say something else. Thanks
I can’t say I’ve heard anyone say that yet 🤔 everyone else I’ve viewed reviews from were quite consistent with my finding.
I didn’t have time to film side by side autofocus testing like that (not that I ever do anyway. Too many variables to have truly objective testing there). As I said, I did test it side by side with the a9 and a7iv in extremely low light, and it traded blows with the a9, where the a1 pretty handily beats the a9 in essentially every focusing task. The a7iv found faces and eyes in smaller/further subjects than either of them, but also doesn’t match their hit rates in any lighting, which I always find to be odd. Great recognition, not as swift to focus.
You can believe it or not. NBD. In both low light and daylight it missed a pretty uncomfortable number of shots for me (more than usable, but should be better at that price point and level of tech), and failed to find eyes and faces where the a9 and a7iv I was using alongside did.
And wait, who is a “pro”? Haha
@@WesPerry well said. In the end who are the pros? There are pro reviewers that take terrible images because they are not pro photographers. I like your true perspective as you are pro in both worlds, and even quite technical being an electronic guru I see. Anyway, bottom line at the end of the day is specs can draw a marketing view, but it cannot prove accuracy, repeatability and system confidence in some or all environments and lighting situations. Couples dancing, party lights, live performances, dark corner stage, rehearsals, darker backstage, corporate meetings, conferences, wedding prep, so many places that a great camera can still fail.
@@WesPerry Sam Hurd's recent Nikon Z9 video says that the Z9's autofocus was on par or even better than his Canon R3 so the Z8 autofocus should be keeping up with the Sony's.
@@Rocky_KO bingo! :)
@@simonfuller76 " In the end who are the pros?" a pro is a guy who makes a living from photography, not a TH-camr. HTH
I am very very interested in the Z8. I think Nikon is doing awesome stuff at the moment
No manual IBIS? you can setup the focal length in the camera and the camera will support IBIS on a manual lens unless of course, it is a manual zoom.
Yeah I have that in the pinned comment now. Turns out it’s a just much harder to find setting than in Sony cameras.
Nice review , some of your issues like the blackout are settings you just don’t know yet. Think you need to spend more time with the camera .
Unfortunately my time with the camera was limited. Even so I probably spent about 4 hours in the menu, and several more hours in the manual and googling things. And they say Sony menus are bad... these new Nikon menus with all the new mirrorless settings are quite possibly even worse due to the way they're broken down. Since they all have touch screens, we should be able to search for menu items in the camera, and not have to pull up and search the user manual on the Nikon website (which I kept open on my phone the whole time 😂). But every manufacturer tries their darnedest to use non-standard terms for everything, which makes it even More difficult to set up a camera. Ugh.
There’s also built in info per menu.. just click the Question Mark icon.
Might want to read the manual. You have flicker reduction on. Second the EVF has a much faster frame refresh rate than the Sony or Canon.
Actually the a1 and a7Rv EVF have a 120Hz refresh rate as well, but drop down about the same res as the Z8 at that speed. It’s a choice there. It’s nice to have a choice! The a1 can go as high as 240Hz. There’s some discussion about latency at that point, but I’ve never been a wildlife photographer so this isn’t really on my radar at the level all the cameras operate.
And I wouldn’t want to turn flicker reduction off an on. That’s something I’m going to be leaving on all the time regardless, for safety.
@@WesPerry In a coment above, someone said that while turned on, the flicker reduction will automatically kick in only when needed. But does that mean that blackout will be automatically turned on and off as flicker is detected, or will it stay on while the whole time?
Not sure. At all shutter speeds from 2s to 1/32,000s I had blackout, both indoor and outdoor, so it’s apparently not as simple as that. I never turned off flicker reduction, though.
@@WesPerry So pay an extra grand or two for an overkill EVF that will stutter anyways?
Just got my z8. I’m selling my a7rv for sure
What sort of work do you do?
@@WesPerry TH-cam videos under the name consumertechwarehouse. It’s a start up I did last year everything there was shot on an a7iv and the. A7rv. Other than that small photography sessions for friends and family. But mostly it’s a hobby.
Same here. I’ve used the z9 alongside the A1 and A7RV. I sold my A1 due to the old flip screen style as I shot more from the hip. The A7RV has been solid but I’ve loved the z9 more so I knew when I got the z8, I’ll have to make a sacrifice. I still have the 50 1.2 GM and 70-200 ii that I use on the z8-9 via the megadap and it’s pretty tremendous/. I even upset the Nikon rep saying so.
@@davetv8171 I got my z8 and loving it so far. Have it alongside my sony until I sell it. It’s much better.
@@danielzb oh I know and it’s surprising the z8 is heavier as it doesn’t feel like it.
During low light AF, If you have a 1.4 aperture lens vs a 2.8, Aperture does not close down until you take the shot so wouldn't you automatically get better focus because of the extra light up until shutter pressed ?
Sony mirrorless cameras don’t operate that way in AF-C. That’s more of a DSLR thing.
@@WesPerry Thanks for info, I didn't know that, might have to always use largest aperture from now on in low light. (was sometimes using F4 when 1.8 was available as i didn't know it had any affect, wanted a safety margin for depth of field in certain circumstances - bad habit from DSLR days)
It can certainly cause some frustration. Like with the new Viltrox 16 1.8. Great lens, but low light AF isn’t great, and if you stop it down in low light? You’re getting into manual focus territory because the camera just won’t leverage that ability to open the aperture for more light.
Now to be clear, it WILL pop the aperture when in AF-S mode, but this is very troublesome because you’re not really supposed to use the camera in AF-S for almost anything anymore (even by Sony’s own admission). In AF-C it won’t do this. The reason why has got to be some terrible engineering compromise. Give me a menu option to turn it on!
@@WesPerryThis is one big advantage of Canon’s AF that I really appreciated when I switched from the Z6II to R5. AF happens wide open regardless of shooting aperture (even in servo/af-c).
I think Nikon lenses have a more significant focus shift. If the camera focused wide open, that would result in blurry images, unless some magic and calibration is performed for each specific lens. Focusing with set aperture is more consistent.
Fun and honest review from a Sony shooter. Been werking with the Z8 for 2 weeks and i love it! Little heavy and need Some extra battery ‘s. But super happy with it!
I love my Z8. Just as I loved my D850. Very honest review though. Being a longtime Nikon shooter, you easily get used to the dials and layout for most shooting scenarios. I go from portraits to wildlife with no problem.
Question: Has their been an update that improved the autofocus in low light please on the Z8? I have an A7 IV and am seriously thinking of getting this. But as I shoot a lot of video in low light that is an important factor. I can't worry about it losing focus if filming a speaker at an event for instance.
My friend who owns this camera installed the latest update and hasn’t found much improvement. In even slightly low light it doesn’t perfectly nail eye-af 1/4 of the time. It might be Faster to focus than the a7iv, but it disappointingly still seems to have a lower hit rate for perfectly normal stuff.
In really dark place like Theater, I would suggest turning on the "Starlight" mode. Also the 3D tracking when shooting in dark theater was not the right AF mode either. 3rd party eyecup would solve your nose/screen issue.
What Is the best AF mode then? If I’m shooting ballet dancers running and jumping around the stage at ISO16,000 I still need it to track and focus reliably.
You misquoted the flash sync speed of the A1. 1/400s in FF, 1/500s in APS-C using mech shutter.
I quoted the lowest you’ll get, as it’s not entirely simple, and knew someone would say I misquoted it if I went for the higher numbers. There’s occasionally a compatibility issue when using the higher speed priority sync (not that I had any such issue with Godox flashes)
helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2040/v1/en/contents/TP1000426662.html#:~:text=The%20flash%20sync%20speed%20is%201%2F320%20second%20when%20shooting,in%20the%20APS%2DC%20size.
Likewise the Z8 has a similar default vs expanded range of 1/200 or 1/250 depending on compatibility.
Good review, however, the blackout on the monitor is because you need to change a menu setting. I love both Sony and Nikon but use Nikon . Stills!
I address this in the pinned comment, and my latest video. The blackout will be staying for most of the work that I do, unfortunately
Nice job -- and I agree with most of your findings - I am at odds however with a couple but since I am me and you are you that is fine.
The fricking VF resolution again -- rot. I am over 1m shots in on a pair of Z9 and no issues with the EVF - the Z8 and Z9 have the same EVF. Blackout happens at very slow shutter speeds ONLY. You were below the 1/8th threshold where blackout free is disabled. Shoot between 1/8th and 1/250 the evf is not refreshed at 1/120th or 1/60th be less frequently so may appear to stutter -- this is stuff you learn as you learn the camera over long use.
CFE-B -vs- CFE-A -- do I need to say more.
Yes the UHS-ii/SD was a disappointment. But Nikon had to make compromises.
Almost no hybrid cameras (I found 2) can write directly to an SSD - the main complaint is folk tring to use cheap storage solutions -- Don't buy a Bentley if you cannot afford the petrol !!
Who shoots video with full back up to both cards - very few and adds to heat gain? For most resolutions/formats/fps - just plug in an external recorder via HDMI - you can either write full res to an internal card OR remove the cards and export upto 4320/30p or 2160/120p. For me just by a stack of v large TB ultra fast cards and get the best unless you need ultra long recordings when an external recorder is by far the best option -- reduces heat gain and large SSDs can be used. Read the fine print w'r't HDMI formats and bit depth when using HDMI.
Use Profoto not cheap lights!!! OR here is a thought don't shoot at 1/32000th with flash. The hope was to have 1/400th sync speed -- but 1/250th is ok.
Battery life is fine - just carry spares (I carry 4 $50 batteries and can shoot for a very long time, and recharge them in my bag as I go with a power bank and simply usb-c charger) or plug in power delivery to a 99 Whr power bank or V-battery.
Yes -- we want Zebras back in photo and a few more video centric displays/info for cine work.
Use the hoodman eyecup and you will find your hugh nose does not hit the nubbin - well not as often
Yes Nikon please keep improving the AF. I have not found the same issue as you did in low light, but then I do not have other brands of FF bodies to compare too.
High speed Flickr reduction only works with shutter speed up to 1/8000th So you 1/32,000th test is wasted.
Are you saying this has better auto focus than the R5, R6 ii, and a7 IV?? Am I hearing that right? I would pick this up in a heart beat if it is similar to the R5, which I've owned and loved. I'm seeing other reviewers say it can't even hold up to an R8.
Yes, however there is a bit ol But there.
To get the most out of the Z8 and Z9 AF systems takes days/weeks of research and practice. Learning focus modes and finding out what functions best suit your particular use case.
Without obsessive tweaking, it would be a little worse than those cameras you’ve listed. With obsessive tweaking, it’s above those, but still just below the R3 and a1.
This creates a really difficult judgement call when it comes to rating and comparison. If I can pick up an R6ii or a9ii and just have it focus better out of the box than a Z8, which actually has better AF? 🤔
Very troublesome, and just another signal of how Nikon is still a bit behind at the moment. The hardware they released is astonishingly good, but the firmware still needs refinement. Thankfully they are very clearly on it, and supporting these cameras for a long time.
Nikon have an eyecup for the viewfinder which will solve your nose bumping into the bump on the back screen.
Does the z8 have focus breathing correction in camera, like the Sony A7iv?
As far as I know only Sony has this
But it’s not in the a1 either 😬
@@WesPerry what about custom menus?
Oh yeah lots of room for custom menus.
Also has arguably a more versatile custom setup switching system. (Like C1 C2 etc on Sony, but more).
reason to buy A7RV when Z8 exists? Well... As someone outside of mirrorless world deciding whether to go Nikon or Sony (or buy used D850 for normal photo and used A7R3 for vintage manual lenses - here as a sony user I would ask you - will IBIS work with A7R3 as you described - set up focal length and good to go, or is that a feature in newer sony bodies?), I would say there is currently one really big reason. Lenses. its just hard to ignore range of awesome (and somehow affordable) Sigma and Tamron lenses for Sony-E mount, which arent there for Nikon Z mount.
Also ergonomics, although I would prefer bigger body, 3 wheels and many custom buttons are advantage.
So, concidering mechanical shutter for A7R5 which eliminates rolling shutter problems of slow sensor, and no video (there still are many people who use photo camera just for photos), I think A7R5 is still a great option even when Z8 exists (and in my country is even cheaper by around 1-2% than A7RV)
3rd party lenses are coming! Nikon has already started working with Tamron, and I'm sure Sigma will come soon, and there are already many manual and AF options from lesser known lens brands, some of which are surprisingly decent. And you can adapt to not only older Nikon F-mount lenses quite seamlessly, but the z mount is I believe the shortest flange distance and largest flange opening of all the brands, so you can adapt to most other mounts currently available.
@@VikingMultimediaYT thats the thing, they are comming. Another question is whether they are working only on new lenses or adapting existing ones to Nikon. Both ways it will take several years for Nikon to catch up with Sony in 3rd party lens support, by then we wont be talking about A7R5 vs Z8 but A7R6 vs Z8 II or something according those lines. Currently support its lacking. As for adapting, concidering everything is electronic theese days (even manual focus on autofocus lenses is often focus by wire) it would be hard if not impossible to adapt from other mirrorless systems as you cant just use 0,96mm metal plate as in old days when you wanted to adapt M42 screw to Sony-A mount, you need electronic chip that translate data, rewire connections etc. Havent seen any of those under 2cm length yet, let alone 2mm which is flange distance between Nikon Z and Sony E.
Actually there’s already a teeny tiny Sony e to Nikon Z adapter. I have no idea how they pulled it off, but it costs $400 here so I didn’t order one 😂
@@WesPerry It does really exist, nice :D Googling it found 3 different models released all around 250$, so 400$ sounds about right for EU market :D
For Nikon shooters thats actually awesome price for expanded options. If it really works and works well (sometimes especially 3rd party lenses dont work even with official adapters - I have bought heavily discounted Sigma lens that for original owner havent communicated with mirrorless system despite having official Sony-A to Sony-E adapter)
I can't get high speed sync to work with my Flashpoint. How did you get it to work?
Not much!
Enabled it in camera (Auto FP) and in the transmitter (Sync) and it just worked!
@@WesPerry Thank you
As for the low light af…isnt every camera metering its af with open aperture? The a9 thus was able to meter/measure af distance with 2stops extra light and then stopped down to 2.8 for the shot of course, but im almost certain that for distance metering all cameras use the lens wide open.
Sony usually only does this in AF-S, as their system isn’t designed to do this in AF-C. In some newer Sony bodies you can set it to do so, but it introduces lag, because again it was never made to operate that way.
My Z8 has no black-out when taking photos. I've heard other people with that issue. It is an option you must change.
Four options! Haha
@@WesPerry You have to turn off "flicker reduction" to get full no black out.
Not just flicker reduction. See the pinned post for more :)
@@WesPerry Agreed. There are other setting like d12 and d13 that need to be enabled but that's the one that makes the biggest difference in my opinion.
black out is a thing you choose in the menu so ypu can se you are taking a picture....
just saying.... ;,-)
Got Z9 and use it to @@WesPerry
While I love camera comparisons, I don’t feel you understand the Nikon Z8/Z9 menus system to get the best results out your shooting experience. Example; there is no blackout at all on either my Z8 or Z9 when taking a photo. There is absolutely no blackout when you push the shutter. Even with that being said, I appreciate your video.
See the pinned comment please
But also I have since found there are three or four separate menu items that can cause blackout if you have them enabled. Kindof crazy.
th-cam.com/video/cu83FpSSbSE/w-d-xo.html
The English Z8 manual has nearly a thousand pages in it. I’ll let you know when I finally finish it 😂
How is the autofocus compare to Sony?
Is there a way to adjust the brightness of the top display? I find that it is very dark
Hmm I’m not sure
I was also wondering but didn’t manage to find anything in time. I found it a little too bright when shooting in the theatre haha
@@WesPerry there is, several levels from very bright to "stealth" mode that I use on theaters by the way
Love your work Wes!!
Thanks Matthew! 🙏🏻
Thanks! I just recently made a video where I had to choose between Sony and Nikon... Well, it seems like you use both?
Unfortunately I had to give this one back ;)
I've never encountered black out. My batteries last as long as they did on the D780 DSLR. Handling and usability is what you're used to. A bit of a homer review but I enjoyed it.
I think he had flicker reduction on.
If I get this Zed 8 would like also the 135 f/1.8
For me the biggest issue with the Nikon Z system is the size and weight of my favorite lens: the 50mm f1.2. The Sony version of this lens is much smaller and lighter and focuses a lot faster. Concerning the autofocus I can say it has become a lot better with firmware 2.0.
Excellent comparison. The Z8 is bigger than Z7 and A7 series, which makes a better grip for winter use with gloves.
Re low light focusing: i think the a9 might open the aperture back to f1.4 to focus in low light? I am not sure about that, but that might explain the low light difference.
in any case, it is weird that the z8 low light focus was that poor. Mine tracked a brown rabbit against a brown field 1h after sunset perfectly, with an f5.6 lens (70-200 with 2x TC)
The a9 only does this in AF-S, a mode which isn’t terribly useful for anything other than landscapes and real estate photography. Shooting theatre and ballet on a dark stage this isn’t a viable option, unfortunately.
You hava the choice. (In te sony menu at The "Aperture Drive in AF " ho can choose standard (is the default ),Silent Priority,And Focus Priority,in stnadard maces the camera the decision to open the aperture when focusing in low light or Not,And with the Focus priority settings The camera automaticaly opens the apperture to the max vhen focusing .
@@WesPerry There is a work around with the A9 by turning of live simulation . Mark Gala has a video on how to set it up.
Based on ergonomics alone, I had to get rid of my Sony A7IV after six months of trying to get used to it. I don’t have large hands and it was still too compact to comfortably use. Even my Lumix G9 was easier to handle and navigate. The Nikon Z8 is on my radar for a full frame replacement system exactly because of its size and handling.
The new a9iii seems to have stolen the grip off the Z7ii 😏
@@WesPerry Which still makes the Z8 a better contender for my purposes 😉
There is no black out on my Z8. I turned it off in the settings.
Just playing with it again today, and as long as you turn on Flicker Reduction indoors (When it should Always be on for safety) you do get a blackout still. On Sony cameras this doesn't cause blackout, but it does on the Z8/Z9 unfortunately. But that feature is too important to turn off if you're doing client work, too risky without it, so blackout it is!
There is no blackout if you set it up properly in the menu
Blackout is a option to enable in display.
So you don’t have to see any blackout
Apparently it has to be traded for flicker reduction, which I’m not a fan of having to choose between 🤔
I didn't know you have to look using the right side of the eye when using efv
About the battery life issue, Z8 has 2 USB-C ports, I just bring a external Power Bank with USB-C connection. Note, must use USB-C to USB-C cable to get it working.
Another note about those ports, when you’re shooting tethered in the studio, you have to use Two cables if you want it to charge while shooting all day 😩
Contacted Nikon and there is indeed no way to do charge and data in the same port like every other camera. Ugh. One step forward, two steps back.
I wish the Z8 was smaller. Weren't mirrorless cameras invented for their small form factor?
In their defence, they basically squeezed a Z9 down into that body. So I would sooner say, "I'm glad this isn't as big as the Z9" haha. But yes, I too would prefer that it be smaller, but at least the grip is incredibly ... umm... grippy. Lots to hold on to. But as I said in the video, I do find it's a bit more exhausting to use due to the size and weight. There's a lot going on in there, though!
@@WesPerry There's a lot going on in the Sony A7IV too and it's a lot smaller.
Last weekend, my first real shoot with my new Z8 garnered 3476 frames and used less than 50% of the El-EN18c battery. But then, my use case is using the EVF versus the live screen with lots of burst shooting. Today, I did about 150 landscape shots in the garden live screen along with a hike in a local state park with my wife, again using life view regularly for that total of 150 shots with 62% battery remaining. Not great, but not terrible as you suggest. Yes, the battery on my Z9 is a beast that laughs at a full day of shooting, but that's why I bought the battery grip for the Z8 when I'm shooting over 5000 frames in a few hours, with mostly burst shooting (shooting dog movement in conformation dog shows). The battery performance in my Z8 certainly isn't any worse than my old Z6ii and Z7ii. Is the autofocus really an 8 out of 10? I know the autofocus system for both Sony and Canon are said to be a step better than the Nikon Z9 and Z8. But, my hit rate is about 96 percent or better. I think there is a definite learning curve on the Nikon AF system, but 8 out of 10? Hardly. Now, the Z7ii and Z6ii are about an 8 out of 10, but the Z9 and Z8 are closer to 9.5.
Pretty sure I gave AF a 9/10. The only 8 was handling and usability.
@@WesPerry My bad!! Sorry about that. I've heard that Sony's are easy for just about anyone to pick up and take a beautiful image with, so I'll give you that. I've been using Nikon's for about 20 years, so the handling and usability with the Z8 is wonderful in my mind, although I wish Darrell Young would write one of his great "Mastering the Nikon....." books for the Z9 and Z8. They've helped me a ton to learn the D750, the D850, the Z6ii and Z7ii, and the new cameras get more complex with every iteration. For years I've using Single Point Autofocus and Wide Area with Animal Eye Detection autofocus to capture dog movement, but I've finally bought into Nikon's 3D Tracking autofocus with Animal Eye Detection. On most local or regional dog shows, there are lots of dogs in the ring, or just outside the ring, at the same time and lots of clutter in the background, so single point autofocus helped me to keep locked on the dog while I developed my panning skills. But 3D tracking is amazing. Given that Sony and Canon have been using a variation of this for years, I finally understand what I've been missing. Size-wise; I get that Sony likes to make things small, but honestly, the Nikon Z7ii and Z6ii were a bit small for my liking, kind of the size of a Sony. 🙂
Yeah that’s one of the big issues I could certainly go either way on with the Z8 and Z9.
SO MANY people have said “oh, just spend this many hours/days getting it set up Just right for what you do, and create presets for each thing that you do and it’s AMAZING!”
But… but… on newer Sony cameras you just switch to Real Time Tracking (should be on by default, but it’s in the top level options and linked to a shortcut button), and you’re good for almost Anything. All the other myriad functions and features you can take or leave. Should a person Really have to spend that much time customizing their camera? I’ve spoken to many very seasoned photographers who returned their new Sony/Nikon/Canon mirrorless cameras for a Leica or Hasselblad because they turned it on, realized they’d have to spend time in the menu’s and said “NOPE!” And bought something that just works the way it’s intended straight out of the box.
Us tinkerers are actually a small minority in the photography community, and many Less seasoned photographers I know have literally never even pressed the menu button on their camera before. They have no idea why there would be a reason to. If their cameras do or don’t do something, even if it’s a function hidden in the menu, they just accept it and move on with their day.
Crazy what a different world us nerds live in 😂
@@WesPerry LOL My wife would agree as many times as I've spent a month of evenings reading a 600 page Darrell Young book so I could get a clue on how my new camera works. And, for certain use cases, you're just as well off staying old school. But, the old school technology frustrated me with decreasing the likelihood of capturing that perfect moment that I was after.
Honest review I thought. Glad I watched this video. Thanks for sharing your opinion
I even switched from the RV to the Z8 because this camera is so much better ! I don't regret it (Ok one thing, size :D )
The only thing I would consider the Rv over this camera for is the lens lineup. Nikon still has quite a ways to go yet.
Excuse me? I wish to buy a new camera and I was aiming towards the A7R5 instead of the Z8, specially because its IBIS is advertised to be better. Have you felt any difference? Thanks.
Yeah the ibis is pretty clearly better in practice. It’s the best I’ve seen.
Canon’s can be more Aggressive, but it also results in a lot of weird wobbling at the edges sometimes.
@@helciobmello It's advertised to be better, true i was able to shoot with 1/10 out of Hand with both cameras. So no difference at all.
If the auto focus is being compared to a $6500 A1 wouldn’t you say that’s a win for the Z8 I’m just a construction contractor looking to use it for job site documentation and advertisement.
Yes, but it compares favorably in every other way to the $6500 camera! 👌🏻😏
I don't understand why people are upset with this video. Except when you talk about the blackout, which I think is totally the opposite of what you say (I mean it is NO lag -important- and blackout free), the rest I quite agree and you even gave it a high score in all aspects
The Z8 is just an incredible camera in every way. It has so many features that many won't use them all but so what. I personally don't need such high video features. I've been shooting for 60 yesrs and with nikon for 30 or so and I can say thst the Z8 is by far the best all rounder camera I've ever had..
Oh hey there Wes... I really liked this review because it was so neutral. You wanted to love and did a bit, but with the freedom to nit pick as we should before unloading such investment for our own long term pro use. I also liked your banding test as the 3 different types of lighting are the same as an event photographer experiences (as you would know). Those fairy lights catch me so often out of phase, I hope to get an A9ii one day with the anti flicker in silent shutter mode but my A9, no good, just drop shutter speed if possible. A7iii has anti flicker in mechanical shutter only. Anyway the banding of cheaper indoor lighting, or even on stage auditorium lighting (not all), is everywhere. Very tough to shoot indoor corporate stuff needing ambient lighting. Z8 did a lot right, but as usual... Nothings perfect. Thanks again.
Yes LED lights can be a menace. I’ve shot in some circumstances where no amount of shutter speed fixing and fine tuning would straighten things out 😑
most of the gripes come down to not understanding the nikon and settings.
Watch the follow up video where I address this.
This camera looks fantastic and ots great than every brand now has a camera that can shoot silently.
I think sonus main advantage is on the lens choices now
Sure you can't stabilise manual lenses? Because the Zf and Z6 III can do that.
(This is addressed in the pinned corrections comment)
Not being to pull files off without software is a good reason to use Windows, because this is an issue with other products on Mac.
This isn’t a Mac specific issue.
Have been shooting nikon for 5 years, Am even happy with my z6ii &z6, sometimes I Use sony but the menu kills me, I miss focus with sony A7iii. But my frind loves it and he doesnt miss. After getting comfortable with a system , you learn how to use is. Thats what I can say.
The a7iii is a very old camera at this point. There will likely be an A7v next year lol
@@WesPerry I know, but still a fantastic camera, u missed my point, but you are right.
Really great review. It’s good to get perspectives from users of other systems. Nikon should use those views for feedback and improvements.
Confused at the “no manual ibis” part. I haven’t tried mf lenses on Z8 but older Z cameras have that capability. Did you try the non CPU Lens data setting?
Also a setting must have been off if you had blackout so not surprised low light af struggled because my Z9 can see in the dark haha
Also curious how much af struggles were because of unfamiliarty? Were you using 3D, custom area, full area, what picture profile, focus or release priority, was energy saving on? My Z9 rarely misses so I’m wondering if Z8 is truly an equal.
I was using 3D with custom area, shooting RAW redundant to both cards, release priority balanced, no energy saving. And I wouldn’t say it was a struggle, just not as tip top as expected.
@@WesPerry thanks for that info, keep up the great work!
I did some digging and there’s some that think the flicker reduction blackout issue is a bug Nikon has yet to fix. Although the blackout should be just the first frame. So also try these settings:
d13 (view all in continuous mode) isn't OFF - it should be ON
Select Type B under d14
Tank you for your review.
You can use another EVF cap to keep your nose a bit further from the screen. 😊
Nikon Z 8 very good quality, very good image and ideal focus. Zaline is a good camera
Excellent review. Pulled on punches - things we all want to know. I am saving this review. I want to watch it again,.
I suggest you to test the camera after going through all the settings.
I did go through the entire camera menu before taking a single shot with it actually (took about 2 hours). Unfortunately not all the menu items have obvious names, so further research is required to really get it done.
But here’s the thing with “further research”: the manual for the Z8 is 948 pages long. Just English language, no exaggeration, it’s 948 pages.
So while I likely spent hours in the manual as well, it’s literally impossible to get it all down without several weeks of study.
But here’s the kicker: most of the most seasoned photographers I’ve met, dozens of them, have told me they’ve never once gone into the menu of their camera. If it’s not a shortcut button or in the function menu, it’s just not happening. They rely on the manufacturer to set it up in a usable manner from the factory. I’ve even spoken to a few who sold a camera and bought a new one because they realized they’d have to spend time customizing it, time they didn’t have, and ordered another that didn’t require this.
Use diving technophiles are a very tiny minority of the camera community, believe it or not (I have a degree in electrical engineering for goodness sake. I’m Not the typical target market). If hours if not weeks of research and modification is required to get the job done well, the manufacturer has utterly failed in their job.
Nikon is by no means the only offender here. Both Sony and Canon also have some utterly confounding defaults and bizarre naming conventions. How about that the Sony a7iv will overheat while taking photos (not even Video!) unless you change a menu item? Absolutely absurd 🤦🏻♂️
Don't mention the strap lug falls off. RECALL! Lenses don't lock, overheating.
This particular unit has experienced none of these things (is still in very regular use today, still with none of these issues), as such it was indeed not mentioned.
Your lucky.
Most if not all reviewers that uses Sony doesn't mention that since A73 launch Sony devoted most of their Bionz X processing power to Auto Focus that's why a lot of other things or features sucks. No reviewers points out that A1 has two (2) Bionz X processor 1 is dedicated only to Auto focus and yet it still sucks on other features. On the otherhand, Expeed 7 and Digic X perfoms better overall even with only 1 processor. IMHO
Could you be more specific about the “other features”?
Excellent presentation/review!👍
The banding can be a look too like some purposely want the vintage looking of lower quality lens
A7R5 and R5 user shooting landscape and causal wildlife (400mm) for light weight hiking around.
Like R5 AF during low light low contrast, superb EVF; dislike its mon not fully tilt/flip, RF lens not open, 1/8000s, 30s shutter limits, +- 3EV exposure compensation, slow shutdown (wait for curtain close switching lens)
Like A7R5 lens choices, dials, good AF tracking; dislike its poor EVF, weak low light AF, poor S&Q options for timelapse, slow shutdown (wait for curtain closes switching lens)
Like (on spec) the Z8 1/32000, M mode extend shutters, user friendly options for timelapse; surprised to know from your review its low light AF problem, EVF; dislike its less ideal ergo, heavy, lens choices. Thats very important to me.
About the blackout: I saw a video (th-cam.com/video/cu83FpSSbSE/w-d-xo.html) about this and it says that the blackout is caused by the flicker reduction turned on. The camera may need time to figure out the LED frequencies.
I shoot everything and i mean dslr mirrorless , film cameras of the old school era i grew up in late seventies and 80s , nikon z 8 is awesome, learn modes and mikd settings be better for you , brands are not to be bashed
A very well done review without a deep dive into a lot of tech speak.
Well… I went a Little too deep with the LED banding tests, but I tried to hold myself back 😂
Great Video Wes >> Very balancd >> My Dream camera to update my Z7
Or maybe the Z7iii soon? 🤞🏻😂
Love my z8 perfect camera 🔥
I am switching to Sony after playing with the Nikon Z8 for a bit. I go street shooting with a friend, and his Sony would consistently get shots the Z8 would fail to get. Z8 just wasn't working for me.
My friend who owns this camera is still having issues with consistency of eye-af, even after all the firmware updates. Very frustrating how they’re so close but still not quite there yet.
@@WesPerry Agreed. In every aspect Sony and Canon outpaced Nikon. This was done over weeks comparing various shots. Its incredibly disappointing because I loved the Nikon DSLRs but they have fallen significantly behind in the mirrorless arena.
I still keep feeling like they’re just one firmware away from getting it. All the hardware is totally “there” now. Just one piece of the puzzle missing.
But… when?
Very true review of z8
Awesome review, for the eye 👁️ problem, just get an eye cup 21:05
My Z8 runs circles around my old Sony A1... Selling A1 for A Z9.
Great review as always! I would looooove a Z8, but I'm really, really curious to see what comes in the Z6III/Z7III...I suspect we'll know by end of year. If money was no object, I'd buy that Z8 though as I'm already a Z shooter (z6II).
Yeah I think the Z7iii will really be the camera for most people and pros, if and when it finally comes around. As long as they don’t do something crazy with it haha
Been shooting the Z6II for a couple of years. I just caved and ordered a Z8 a few days ago, even though I was thinking the same thing... A Z6III with the video codec options from the Z8/Z9 and updated AF performance would have really been the sweet spot for me. Don't need 45MP stills or 8k in video yet, but I'm desperate for more reliable AF and RAW or at least 10-bit video. My Z6III wish list would be to keep the resolution to 24MP or so and offer 6k oversampled RAW video. If they got the autofocus right and added a higher second native ISO it could be an A7SIII killer.
@@VikingMultimediaYT yep, completely agree, I don’t have the loonies for a Z8 myself and it’s way more than I need, right now. But a Z6III with a few improvements definitely would be good. 📸😎
I own both z6 &z6ii am thinking of z8 but again it's an overkill, if I can only get 10bit, 4k 120 & log without atomos.... in z6iii, I will sell my z6 to fund it😊
Most of what you said in your review in cons. Is not true you don't support Nikon up to you but it's the best between the rest 👍🏻
I gave it the highest rating of any camera I’ve ever reviewed. It’s up to you to focus on what’s important and not important to you 😉
you can turn off blackout :D but video is very nice, thank you:)
Correction Pin added :)
(Needed to find the exact menu item before doing so)
Im almost ready to switch systems to nikon… i like this very negative review as it helps dampening a potential overhype…
My main reason for switching is simply Sonys Color/Gamut handling. Skintones are fine in good light, but they get pink and nasty so quickly in mixed light or low light. Part of it is Sonys Color science part is surely whitebalance. Im a wedding shooter as well, so a lot of not-ideal light situations all the time and Sony really makes me work superhard in Post to get the images ok…rarely am i 100% happy with the files tho… Fuji does this best, but apsc completely fell apart in bad lighting as well and their af is an absolute joke (focusing wrong eye in still sitting subjekts sometimes 50% of all images taken even tho green box was on the correct eye all the time…)
So im curious…is nikons colour actually THAT much better in testing? Is the AF THAT much worse? I dont care if i „only“ get 80% hitrate vs. 95% with Sony, if the resulting images then blow me away im good with that…
What Sony(s) have you been using?
@@WesPerry a7s3 and a7mk4, gmaster glass 90% (35 1.4, 50 1.4, 135). The af was quite good and delivered around 90% hitrate all things combined. I felt the a74 to be worse then the a7s3.
Like said: id take good base colour over the last 5% Af-hitrate anyday…
For me I can see better value waiting and getting two Z6iii's. All the benefits of my Z6 and Z6ii with the improved expeed 7 processor and auto focus.
Yeah big time
At the end it comers to personal preferences and there's not a camera for all 😎 thanks for sharing your experiences 🤗
It’s as close to a camera for all as any camera has ever been, though (not counting the price of course haha)
Great perspective - and also the bonus chonky cat at the end 😅
😸
I love my Z8 🙂
Looks like is a z8 complain review! I've seen a lot of other Reviews and is One of the best hybrid cameras out there.
It is indeed the best hybrid camera out there. I gave it a higher rating than any camera I’ve ever reviewed. But nothing’s perfect ;)
Nose issue: $15 eye cup/relief.
But… then the camera won’t look as Cool anymore! Very important! Haha
But more of an issue is I’d need a new camera bag as this one barely fit in mine 😂
I’ve been a Nikon wildlife shooter for decades. But when they took over a year and a half to deliver a 400 or 600 prime - I used that gap to explore Sony. I was able to go out and buy - no supply chain issues from Sony - a A1, A7rV, 400, 600, 200-600, 90 macro. Several dealers had all these items in stock - allow for a competitive set of quotes. I concur with your findings. I have both the Z9 and Z8 and they consistently miss shots the Sony easily gets. I use to think the Nikon has better ergonomics but the Sony with a grip extension or vertical grip works fine for those with larger hands shooting big primes. So, my heart and muscle memory is with Nikon - but my brain says pick up the Sony you fool. When I have an important shoot I absolutely grab the Sony A1. I have sooooo much Nikon gear I’ll likely keep it but the Sony is now the go-to kit - at least for wildlife/action.
Word is they've made further progress with the latest update, but your/our opinion doesn't seem to be a popular one in this comments section! 😂
for wildlife photography Nikon is becoming the better option, mostly due to the new lenses like the 400mm f/2.8 and 600mm f/4, both with excellent IQ and a TC available at a finger move
@@raynerp good point - i have the Nikon 400 with the TC and its very handy. i also have the 100-400 (ok but not great) and the 800 (amazingly light). so for sure the built in tc is a plus but i dont see any quality difference with SONY ( compared to the lens above i own.) the rep of the 600 seems good - but very hard to find and purchase. i'll be testing out version 4 - you might be right if they can improve the AF.
@@WesPerry Nikon is the underdog right now so people are willing to overlook a lot of their very obvious flaws. My high-end Z8 misses shots that my midrange A7IV nails every time. In low light, my Z8's subject detection is essentially completely useless-- even with starlight mode turned on (which I'm sick of Nikon shooters recommending-- it's a hack, pure and simple, and it was never intended to be used this way). Meanwhile my A7IV is nailing eye AF in almost complete darkness.
a 1.4 lens will still have 4 times as much light to work with than a 2.8 lens, no matter what stop you've set it to. Put a 2 stop Nd on it, then compare
Only with some AF systems. In AF-S the a9 will open the aperture some for focusing, but not in AF-C.
@@WesPerry really? That's nuts 😂
Yeah it’s been a point of contention with Sony users since day one. Lots of speculation as to why they do this, but presumably just something to do with moving subjects and shifting apertures interferes with actually shooting?
A Sony User’s and Review with the Sony in his eyes , I would say. LOL
There is not a perfect camera. I am thinking of a Z8 but love my Z7ll. My friends who have sony and canon are very happy with what they have. Things that you see. We don't. Not pros. I like your review. I do agree they should have made a better AF. They were behind. Low battery. Answer just carry another battery or batteries. The Z lens are great. Now to the important thing. Your Nose. Not a deal breaker. Sorry you have problems with it. Your just used to such a small camera. It would really be huge if you shot with the old Minox camera lol. Great review. Keep the nose.
I have one on order that I am waiting for. I am switching from a Sony A7R3 (with a fair sized "herd" of Sony lenses) to the Z8.
I am an amateur and shoot a wide variety to subjects from Landscapes to Astro to Birds in Flight/Wildlife to Aviation, and the feature set of this camera is almost like Nikon tailored it to my specific needs. The one thing that I was not aware that this camera does not have that you mentioned is the Zebra Stripes in photo mode. As you said, once you use them they are pretty much essential. Hopefully, Nikon will add them in a future firmware update.
There is no shutter in the Nikon z8 and there is no blackout what the hell are you talking about, man I own the sony a7r5 and the z8 yes, your correct about the autofocus but not the blackout
See the pinned comment, and my follow up video. For most indoor shooting I’ll be having blackout unfortunately.
The first reviewer that isn't a total fan boy. Yeah, the stacked sensor is great (and all cameras above the $3500 mark should have it - eventually). BTW, the a7rv rear screen has the same resolution + its tilting & fully articulated... as for the AF (the a7rv has 200 more AF points for reference). The z8 is a great value, Nikon did right at pricing it very competitive to increase their market share. IMHO, I feel their lens line up isn't complete and the ones they have are way to heavy & bulky.
But have you used the a7Rv in broad daylight?
I did in Mexico and oh boy. Can’t see a thing on that screen still. But the Z8 will burn the eyes right out of you 😂
Sony should be putting high end 1000nit smartphone OLED’s on their high end cameras. So annoying.
And Yeah, I ended up cutting the lens talk for time. Didn’t want to hit the 30 minute mark 😂
@@WesPerry yes, I mainly shoot on the beach during mid-day sun. I use “sunny” setting. But, yes, the “nits” could be much better. However the actually resolution is exactly the same.
@@WesPerry TBH, you lost me 10 mins in … it skipped to the end 😂. Regarding lens, I was thinking the of testing Sony lenses with an adapter by Megadap. Previous reviews have been pretty good…
I almost ordered it. Maybe I’ll get in touch with the company. It’s much too expensive for me to buy when I don’t actually own a Z8 and have to beg / borrow. I did get the “dumb” adapter to use my many manual e-mount lenses on it, when it when I discovered that I couldn’t get ibis to work on those manual lenses like you can on Sony bodies. Hopefully they’ll add manually selecting VR focal length with a firmware update sometime…
Nikon Z8👌👌👌
Let's not forget that Sony's menu system is atrocious and not user friendly as well as build quality is nowhere near as good as Canon, Lumix or Nikon.
I dare say the Sony menu system is now far better than the Nikon one, which is utterly bizarre and filled with a decade of cruft. They really need to rethink that Custom Settings Menu structure. It’s sprawling and seemingly random, with settings split between the Photo and Video menus and the Custom Settings menus with no rhyme or reason.
I have the A7rv and Z9 and the nikon viewfinder and backscreen is miles better.
Thanks for the detailed look at the electronic shutter with PWM LED lights, that's really really helpful, well done!
I can tell in the analytics that a lot of people checked out during that test, which is a shame. So glad at least you appreciated it! Haha
@@WesPerry Hahahaha. I'm actually looking at replacing my D750s, whose shutters are failing (Even after being replaced), and I've got a Z6 that just doesn't cut it for sports. I only recently saw that A9 prices aren't that much higher than A7III prices, so have been tempted at that stacked sensor for sports shooting. I do alternate quickly between flash and no flash settings with my Nikons, so I rely on being able to hold down a button to disable it, then release to fire the flash at the perfect time, then go back to holding the button down.
I am worried the Sonys won't have something similar, or won't be able to replicate that as quickly.
@majorredbeard as far as I know there’s no way to do that on Sony. I usually just click the power button on the flash controller off and on for that.
Also, the a9 is kinda miserable to use with flash. The mechanical shutter is Very slow.
@@WesPerry Ah yes, I did read that the 5fps mech shutter feels pretty limiting. All I really would care about is that I can nail the timing of the flash shot. So far every mirrorless I've seen is slightly delayed so I can't rely on the viewfinder to "time" a shot. I'll admit there's a LOT of things I like about my current Nikon setup, espcially how holding down the button to temporarily disable flash also re-enables Auto ISO, and allows the shutter speed to go above the Sync speed, so you sort of have two modes you can really quickly flick between. Even the Z6 behaves this way, and I'm sure the Z8 does too.