Stuff I missed: - Prep no longer resets the cooldown of every Rogue spell. Most notably, adrenaline rush and blind do not have their cooldown reset. - Wound poison is now % based, stacking up to 50% reduced healing. - Poisons last one hour now, have no maximum charges and can be right-clicked to remove from the weapon. - Ambush has higher weapon damage scaling in TBC as well.
Hey man this video helped a lot and made me really excited for TBC as a rogue, thanks! The only thing I’m really worried about as far as TBC goes is leveling. Like in classic I started late so there was already websites with the best leveling spec and order of talents. But in TBC I haven’t found anything like that yet. Do you happen to know anywhere where i could find that?
I had wondered where this info was about Ar/Prep. That shocked me when I finally went Ar/Prep only to find that Blade Flurry, AR, Blind didn't get refreshed. Heart breaking.
I love the blinding powder flavour text, it's just "yeah, so uh, after about a couple years, after making this fine powder with specific materials, we actually found that uh, stuff like dirt and sand kinda did the same thing. so like. yeah."
@Max Cranston it's because of both. in vanilla, evasion didn't give any avoidance for ranged attacks, it was simply 50% increased dodge. in tbc, blind is now a ranged physical attack, and evasion gives a 25% increased chance for ranged attacks to miss, meaning blind has a 25% chance to miss with evasion up. it's also increased by an additional 4% if the rogue has the subtlety talent reducing ranged chance to hit as well.
@Max Cranston ? no, it's specifically a ranged attack which is the only reason why it's able to be MISSED with evasion. if evasion hadn't changed from its vanilla version, blind wouldn't be able to miss due to evasion because the evasion tbc change adds a 25% chance for ranged attacks (blind for example) to miss while the vanilla version was only 50% dodge increase, and blind cannot be dodged in either version of the game. because it is not a melee attack. it is ranged.
Mutiliate was my favorite spec back in the day. I know it's not as good as subtlety but the damage you can do is ridiculous. Def gonna rock it this time around.
@@ajrowe5845 As mutilate, you are being kited to oblivion. It s fun,but also very niche and in Mirlol words:"it is outdated". Use to experiment Muti on Endless PS BG's and ye...kinda useless , only good thing I've noticed is that it is extremely good against Discos and especially RDruids. There is almost feel that Mutilate is designed to counter RDruids HARD.
I thought the spec I played was mut+prep but you can't do that so I have no idea what I was playing. Maybe cold blood hemo prep something weird. Could also just be thinking if a wrath spec who knows its been forever lol
@@ajrowe5845 You are talking about Wotlk, in Tbc Mutilate / Prep was not possible. There was only 2 possible arena build for mutilate 41/20/0 and 53/0/7 . According to best rated player in OG TBC only successful build is pure damage one, if you dilute damage talents with utility ones, Muti becomes basically useless, at that point it is better to go Sub.
Hey, FYI Mutilate will obliterate in PVP early on, before most get over 200 resilence. Once res comes up, SHS Hemo becomes the stand-out rogue PVP spec
@Nygros you asked my fave question and thx Zatar for the answer. Hope this will be fixed for TBC classic. The Video was very helpful for me, i learned a lot and answeres me many questions !!! Thx for the work
I wonder if they made a change to where you can apply combo points on multiple targets(PVE only) if it would be a good change to help rogue dps in TBC.
The KT trinket that gives ap is bis against certain bosses. Slayers Crest is almost pre-bis in t4, but not quite. Some people are going to test badge of the Swarm guard. That item has the potential to be good.
Does Shadowstep still work like you've shown in one of your first Tbc beta videos(that you need to stand still when you use it to get teleported facing the back of the target)? Or may by its fixed and you can use it in while moving?
envenom is aite if youre leveling with mutilate. its pretty decent damage. it also hit super hard when combined with the other talents in assassination like vile poisons and to finish a target off cold blood 5pt 5stack dp envenom can be pretty chonky. in raid situations if can be nice to use on trash as well.
I found the damage difference versus eviscerate wasn't large enough to justify using it. Also forces you into running double deadly poison, which means you're unable to Blind, gouge, and sap things.
TBC gets a looot of stuff that helps rogue with their weaknesses. I think classic rogue can be very frustrating against some hard counters like mass dots, ranged attack/slow/cc etc. With Shadowstep, Cloak of Shadows etc. is the perfect fit, where rogues had massive problems before.
Why do all the PvP builds I see for TBC only have 4/5 points in camouflage? Wouldn't the extra 3% movement speed and 1 second cooldown on stealth be extremely beneficial? What am I overlooking?
With that spec, you don't have cold blood anymore, and rupture is used a lot in PVP. Improved eviscerate could still be good but it is not the go to talent, and I have not been eviscerating enough but I would change it at this point.
I really don't want to give my rogue up in tbc for both pve but mainly pvp purposes. Do you think i will have a hard time finding a raid spot like everyone is saying?
It's hard to say. I think Rogues are much better then how they are being portrayed. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if they are good, it matters if you get invited. Only time will tell if people adjust their expectations. I would recommend sticking with the class you enjoy the most though.
@@bucky7162 i joined a guild a week and a half ago on my rogue. i join, they sent me discord link, i sign up for raid, and i raid. no issues. trust me if i could never get a raid spot, i would be here commiserating with you but tbh ya'll are just super dramatic lmfao
If anything this just proves how little they understood what they were giving to which class. Rogue, a class that has already insane and an overpowered amount of control in classic only got improved versions of that control, and on top got Cloak + Shadowstep. Blizzards bias was screaming in the first few xpacs. In any case, I expect Rogue, Lock, Mage combinations to overwhelm the Arena. It only took... like 5 xpacs before Blizzard realized that Gouge and Prep were too broken for Rogues.
Rogues needed something to remove dots in PVP or they would've been really bad, but I agree Cloak was too strong. Shadowstep is fine. Rogues never even used it for most of TBC. The Rogue we are getting for Classic TBC is actually the weakest version of Rogue from all of TBC so be thankful.
@@bagelobo What are you talking about? Rogue insane control and high dmg already made them super strong. This way they only became even more op, able to counter fkk ups and mistakes while making the very good Rogue players just totally op.
@@khanzy. Hehe, thats ok. Every can have their own opinion. If I was wrong you would not see like 80% of players playing War, Rogue or Mage. And in TBC you will see a metric ton of Locks, Rogues, Mages. And ofc Stunherald Warrs. Everything else is secondary.
another change they made... thou it's more a technical one. Is riposte can no longer be macro'd with any other ability, pre tbc i was able to macro it with things like SS or even backstab and it worked wonders, not they made it so that it shares a GCD. I tried multiple macros. Doesn't work, kinda BS since it cost 6 points. Now it's really not worth getting.
Why do people keep sayin that surprise attack is a boring talent? I cant even begin to describe how much it pisses me off when you fight warrior, and he dodges your eviscerate like 3 times in a row, the talent is not boring at all, and i cant wait to get it
It's the last point in combat, so most PvP specs will not take the ability. This means that the overwhelming majority of the time, combat spec will be used for raiding. It is just a passive damage increase in pve whereas the final talent in assassination is a new ability that completely changes your rotation and play style.
Hey, how's it going? The funny thing is I still play with some guys that talk about you. Since I never played RuneScape, I don't understand what they're talking about. They refer to you as a legend though.
@@Zatar Hey, things are well, haven't played for a long time but planning to do some more PvPing in TBC with mechanics that i've never used/heard of, will be fun to explore. And that's crazy haha, I remember meeting some people from RS in your chat pretty funny experience, spent way too much time playing that game lmao, will catch up to your stream sometime soon :)
Mace stun does not affect the duration of kidney shot, which is the same as classic. Harp unfortunately might not be as powerful as some of the guides you might read, as preparation in TBC classic will not reset the cooldown of adrenaline rush.
you should have said that shadow cloak "was a powerfull skill" and blizzard fucked it up probably because ppl was cryn in forum about it... because after u use it - now it only removes the spells that are "ACTIVE" on you. Everything casted after using shadow cloak will be put back on you - still shadow cloak is running for 4 seconds. now you get slowed by mage and dots of warlock while its still running thx blizzard -.- this skill just got nerfed hard -.-
Stuff I missed:
- Prep no longer resets the cooldown of every Rogue spell. Most notably, adrenaline rush and blind do not have their cooldown reset.
- Wound poison is now % based, stacking up to 50% reduced healing.
- Poisons last one hour now, have no maximum charges and can be right-clicked to remove from the weapon.
- Ambush has higher weapon damage scaling in TBC as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you mentioned that Preparation no longer resets Blind cooldown?
You are correct, let me add that to the list
Hey man this video helped a lot and made me really excited for TBC as a rogue, thanks! The only thing I’m really worried about as far as TBC goes is leveling. Like in classic I started late so there was already websites with the best leveling spec and order of talents. But in TBC I haven’t found anything like that yet. Do you happen to know anywhere where i could find that?
@@skellepina5185 pirate/pay zygor levelling addon. Otherwise talent similar go combat for leveling
I had wondered where this info was about Ar/Prep. That shocked me when I finally went Ar/Prep only to find that Blade Flurry, AR, Blind didn't get refreshed. Heart breaking.
I love the blinding powder flavour text, it's just
"yeah, so uh, after about a couple years, after making this fine powder with specific materials, we actually found that uh, stuff like dirt and sand kinda did the same thing. so like. yeah."
Good shit zatar, keep it up!
I'll be maining a rogue and I really appreciate the no BS, straight-to-the-point information.
You make the best rogue content period. Love how technical all of your content is and its really informational. Thanks. Keep up the good work :)
The evasion change also gives a chance for an enemy rogue's blind to miss if you have evasion up when he tries to blind you
25% from evasion + 4% from heightened senses 2/2.
@Max Cranston it's because of both. in vanilla, evasion didn't give any avoidance for ranged attacks, it was simply 50% increased dodge. in tbc, blind is now a ranged physical attack, and evasion gives a 25% increased chance for ranged attacks to miss, meaning blind has a 25% chance to miss with evasion up. it's also increased by an additional 4% if the rogue has the subtlety talent reducing ranged chance to hit as well.
@Max Cranston ? no, it's specifically a ranged attack which is the only reason why it's able to be MISSED with evasion. if evasion hadn't changed from its vanilla version, blind wouldn't be able to miss due to evasion because the evasion tbc change adds a 25% chance for ranged attacks (blind for example) to miss while the vanilla version was only 50% dodge increase, and blind cannot be dodged in either version of the game. because it is not a melee attack. it is ranged.
Mutiliate was my favorite spec back in the day. I know it's not as good as subtlety but the damage you can do is ridiculous. Def gonna rock it this time around.
I played Mut too I wish I knew the spec I remember it being so good!
@@ajrowe5845 As mutilate, you are being kited to oblivion. It s fun,but also very niche and in Mirlol words:"it is outdated". Use to experiment Muti on Endless PS BG's and ye...kinda useless , only good thing I've noticed is that it is extremely good against Discos and especially RDruids. There is almost feel that Mutilate is designed to counter RDruids HARD.
I thought the spec I played was mut+prep but you can't do that so I have no idea what I was playing. Maybe cold blood hemo prep something weird. Could also just be thinking if a wrath spec who knows its been forever lol
@@ajrowe5845 You are talking about Wotlk, in Tbc Mutilate / Prep was not possible. There was only 2 possible arena build for mutilate 41/20/0 and 53/0/7 . According to best rated player in OG TBC only successful build is pure damage one, if you dilute damage talents with utility ones, Muti becomes basically useless, at that point it is better to go Sub.
Yo he just freestyled a 30 minute guide
and? Check out silentshadow all of this knowledge has been around for years. its rehashing and disguising the same stuff as different
Thanks for content brother it’s greatly appreciated. Nice voice and content. Keep it up gamer 👍🏻
Hey, FYI Mutilate will obliterate in PVP early on, before most get over 200 resilence. Once res comes up, SHS Hemo becomes the stand-out rogue PVP spec
I just want to shadowstep/ambush crit everything. Excited
@Nygros you asked my fave question and thx Zatar for the answer. Hope this will be fixed for TBC classic.
The Video was very helpful for me, i learned a lot and answeres me many questions !!! Thx for the work
Envenom can be used to purge your Deadly Poison DOT from a target for CC, just a thought.
I wonder if they made a change to where you can apply combo points on multiple targets(PVE only) if it would be a good change to help rogue dps in TBC.
Thx for that! Was looking exactly for that!
Hell yeah my man coming through
New evasion work against blind, that's very important when you face rogue.
and cloak of shadow gives only 80% chance to resist spell in pvp
Great video, this helped a lot! Do you have a video about vanilla trinkets that will be used at 70?
The KT trinket that gives ap is bis against certain bosses. Slayers Crest is almost pre-bis in t4, but not quite.
Some people are going to test badge of the Swarm guard. That item has the potential to be good.
great video zatar alot of knowledge here
Does Shadowstep still work like you've shown in one of your first Tbc beta videos(that you need to stand still when you use it to get teleported facing the back of the target)? Or may by its fixed and you can use it in while moving?
It was still bugged a couple of days ago.
envenom is aite if youre leveling with mutilate. its pretty decent damage. it also hit super hard when combined with the other talents in assassination like vile poisons and to finish a target off cold blood 5pt 5stack dp envenom can be pretty chonky. in raid situations if can be nice to use on trash as well.
I found the damage difference versus eviscerate wasn't large enough to justify using it. Also forces you into running double deadly poison, which means you're unable to Blind, gouge, and sap things.
@@Zatar agreed just saying sometimes in certain situations its pretty good
Makes me nauseous thinking about how broken rogues are in TBC.
only in pvp, they're mid-tier af in pve
my girlfriend plays rogue in classic, I think she will like most of those changes. Shadowstep is life
TBC gets a looot of stuff that helps rogue with their weaknesses. I think classic rogue can be very frustrating against some hard counters like mass dots, ranged attack/slow/cc etc.
With Shadowstep, Cloak of Shadows etc. is the perfect fit, where rogues had massive problems before.
Why do all the PvP builds I see for TBC only have 4/5 points in camouflage? Wouldn't the extra 3% movement speed and 1 second cooldown on stealth be extremely beneficial? What am I overlooking?
It's just that every single point in the subtlety tree besides it is better.
I max it out just for fun. I like to stealth to mining nodes in caves, but fast lol. Fun for me anyway
You need 6 sec to drop combat, so the 5th point only does minor stealth speed
i always max camo when sub spec
You’re a legend thanks man
greats videos and good info cheers
Question : I ve seen a lot of sites recommending Rupture over Eviscerate in PvE. Why is that ?
It does more damage? Mangle debuff?
Very good guide
Expose armor will see use use in TBC since its better than sunder armor. However some tanks use it as a threat ability.
Improved expose armor was already better than 5 stack sunder in classic, so I could definitely see guilds using it.
How come you don't take imp evis? Isn't Evis still a large source of damage?
With that spec, you don't have cold blood anymore, and rupture is used a lot in PVP. Improved eviscerate could still be good but it is not the go to talent, and I have not been eviscerating enough but I would change it at this point.
dont even play rogue (yet) but great explainations, subbed
I really don't want to give my rogue up in tbc for both pve but mainly pvp purposes. Do you think i will have a hard time finding a raid spot like everyone is saying?
It's hard to say. I think Rogues are much better then how they are being portrayed. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if they are good, it matters if you get invited.
Only time will tell if people adjust their expectations. I would recommend sticking with the class you enjoy the most though.
@@Zatar Some food for thought! I'm glad you find them better than their portrayal though that's kind of a relief! Thx for the speedy reply!
join a guild, sign up for a raid. not difficult
@@Yambag If you think just joining a guild isn't difficult right now especially as melee then are you even playing the game?
@@bucky7162 i joined a guild a week and a half ago on my rogue. i join, they sent me discord link, i sign up for raid, and i raid. no issues. trust me if i could never get a raid spot, i would be here commiserating with you but tbh ya'll are just super dramatic lmfao
If anything this just proves how little they understood what they were giving to which class. Rogue, a class that has already insane and an overpowered amount of control in classic only got improved versions of that control, and on top got Cloak + Shadowstep. Blizzards bias was screaming in the first few xpacs. In any case, I expect Rogue, Lock, Mage combinations to overwhelm the Arena. It only took... like 5 xpacs before Blizzard realized that Gouge and Prep were too broken for Rogues.
Lul are you a Hunter? Malding over Rogue when Mages and Warriors dominated the PvP in Classic.
Rogues needed something to remove dots in PVP or they would've been really bad, but I agree Cloak was too strong. Shadowstep is fine. Rogues never even used it for most of TBC. The Rogue we are getting for Classic TBC is actually the weakest version of Rogue from all of TBC so be thankful.
@@bagelobo What are you talking about? Rogue insane control and high dmg already made them super strong. This way they only became even more op, able to counter fkk ups and mistakes while making the very good Rogue players just totally op.
@@easycake3251 Never argue with a Rogue, Mage, Warlock or Shadow Priest. They're playing on easy mode and have a bloated sense of confidence.
@@khanzy. Hehe, thats ok. Every can have their own opinion. If I was wrong you would not see like 80% of players playing War, Rogue or Mage. And in TBC you will see a metric ton of Locks, Rogues, Mages. And ofc Stunherald Warrs. Everything else is secondary.
Do we have hope for blizz to fix the class before TBC?
I'm worried because all these bugs where reported day 1 of the beta.
@@Zatar Yep, it sucks when you realize private servers have made a better game than the developers of the game
@@lencovic9571 Same went for Vanilla. Never forget Nostalrius.
Great informative vid
another change they made... thou it's more a technical one. Is riposte can no longer be macro'd with any other ability, pre tbc i was able to macro it with things like SS or even backstab and it worked wonders, not they made it so that it shares a GCD. I tried multiple macros. Doesn't work, kinda BS since it cost 6 points. Now it's really not worth getting.
Why do people keep sayin that surprise attack is a boring talent? I cant even begin to describe how much it pisses me off when you fight warrior, and he dodges your eviscerate like 3 times in a row, the talent is not boring at all, and i cant wait to get it
It's the last point in combat, so most PvP specs will not take the ability. This means that the overwhelming majority of the time, combat spec will be used for raiding.
It is just a passive damage increase in pve whereas the final talent in assassination is a new ability that completely changes your rotation and play style.
Envenom doesn't suck it's actualy good against plate targets ;)
envenom hits like a truck with vile poisons
is premeditation on gcd or can you macro it
Not on gcd
thanks Zatar :)
Hey, how's it going?
The funny thing is I still play with some guys that talk about you. Since I never played RuneScape, I don't understand what they're talking about. They refer to you as a legend though.
@@Zatar Hey, things are well, haven't played for a long time but planning to do some more PvPing in TBC with mechanics that i've never used/heard of, will be fun to explore. And that's crazy haha, I remember meeting some people from RS in your chat pretty funny experience, spent way too much time playing that game lmao, will catch up to your stream sometime soon :)
Thank you
Can also premed a deadly throw
Rogue bis TBC gear pls
Does mace stun proccs effect the duration of kidney shot like in classic? Wanne play Harp on lvl 70 😇
Mace stun does not affect the duration of kidney shot, which is the same as classic. Harp unfortunately might not be as powerful as some of the guides you might read, as preparation in TBC classic will not reset the cooldown of adrenaline rush.
thx bud
you should have said that shadow cloak "was a powerfull skill" and blizzard fucked it up probably because ppl was cryn in forum about it... because after u use it - now it only removes the spells that are "ACTIVE" on you. Everything casted after using shadow cloak will be put back on you - still shadow cloak is running for 4 seconds. now you get slowed by mage and dots of warlock while its still running thx blizzard -.- this skill just got nerfed hard -.-
I just realized you look like this popular computer science guy on youtube named benawad
thanks robbie shapiro, youre a legend
LMAO "usages" KEKW
Subbed at 6.9K
i could see using mutilate in bgs for fun. Nowhere else.
i regret anyone playing this expansion,i mean it's 2021
first
Second
can you please stop jumping around and just stand still while speaking