I encourage people to not simply hate on Carousel (1956) but to discuss it critically or celebrate it. For as many negative things as I may have said in the video, I also mentioned the many merits the film does have (such as the gorgeous score.)
Can you do a video discussing the troubled editing of 1954s A Star Is Born? It was a film ruined by its struggling box office causing it to be cut down and then restored but not fully.
Not one of my fav musicals specifically because of the domestic abuse and unearned heaven. I just don’t understand why the plot exists. The only songsI remember from it are my boy Bill and the it’s June song. That isn’t a good sign since I can sing every single song from a whole bunch of musicals including Jesus Christ Superstar, Cabaret, and Oklahoma.
@@PrivatePrivate-so4ifagreed! Those two songs are worth the rest of the musical. Frankly, I love all of the music from this particular musical. I feel that R&H were at the top of their game when they wrote “Carousel”. Do you have a favorite recording of this musical? My favorite is the London 1993 cast recording.
I saw the 1995 Hytner production at Lincoln Center and the audience (including myself) were literally sobbing at the end. It was like being at a memorial service for someone you knew and cared about. That's how powerful it all was.
I saw it on tour in Los Angeles - three times. The opening was thrilling when the carousel came together as the music swelled, and the ballet with Louise at the end had me in tears. A brilliant reframing of the show for modern sensibilities.
@@LibbeHaLevy-e2j I heard there were plans to film that version. I assume it shelved because of concerns about it being seen as excusing domestic violence. A shame, because the clips of it I've seen make me wish they had just recorded the stage version for home video at least.
I saw a local production of”Carousel” about ten years ago (friend playing Julie). Left me in tears. Billy realizes that his impulsive and violent nature cost him the one thing he truly loved.
I like the music a lot for the show. The abuse part of the movie is hard to take for me. I've been beaten a lot myself, and it is very unpleasant. The line that really bothered me in the movie is Shirley Jones saying that getting beaten by her husband felt like a loving embrace, or something of that nature. Maybe the abuse part of the script is easier to ignore if you haven't experienced being kicked, clubbed, beaten and whipped.
Yes, the studio (and later Frank Sinatra) maintained that Sinatra left because he didn't want to have to film scenes twice for two different formats (as happened with Oklahoma!). Shirley Jones in her biography remembers it differently. Just days before filming was set to begin on location in Maine, Sinatra quit. He had already pre-recorded all his songs, his costumes were ready, and the cast and crew had already been building sets and rehearsing for a couple of weeks. The reason was Ava Gardner - his wife. Though they were separated, Gardner was in Italy filming The Barefoot Contessa and wanted Frank at her side. Even though divorce proceedings were moving forward, Sinatra would do anything for Ava. He was on the next plane to Rome. 20th Century Fox had a major R&H musical ready to film on location - and no leading man. Jones suggested they contact Gordon Macrae, who was doing his nightclub show in Las Vegas. He was on a plane the next day, and went before the cameras two days later. Criticism of Macrae's performance needs to be viewed in that light. He literally had no time to prepare one of the most complex male characters in musical theater.
I heard Shirley Jones say on a talk show I think during the 70s that they were all on set ready to film and Frank Sinatra was informed that he would have to perform each scene twice, the second filming in Todd-AO. Sinatra turned around and left the set and that was that. So Shirley Jones suggested Gordon McRae. And Gordon McaRae was certainly a better billy Bigelow than Frank Sinatra could ever hope to be.
Sinatra would have acted the hell out of the role, but fell short musically. MacRae sang the hell out of the role, but fell short dramtically. He simply did not have the acting chops for the role. His strength was his singing, not his acting. Billy Bigelow needs to played by an actor equally adept at both the musical and acting challenges the role requires. Neither Sinatra nor MacRae fit that bill.
I live in Maine, not far from Camden and Boothbay Harbor where some of the movie scenes were filmed. When I'm out on the water, I like to try to imagine which island was the site for the clambake scene. Every movie misses the mark for one viewer or another. But Carousel is a gem, and as the descendant of many generations of coastal Mainers, I consider it a treasure of my Maine heritage.
The Carousel Waltz is one of the most wonderful pieces of music! My parents had an early LP with selections from Roger and Hammerstein. The Carousel Waltz and Slaughter on 10th Avenue were a great help for me (age 5-7) to put a lid on my hyperness. Note: Carousel was adapted from the great Hungarian playwrite, Molnár Ferenc's 1909 play, Liliom. Note: Susan Luckey (1938-2012) played Louise Bigalow. Several years later, Ms. Lucky played Zaneeta "Ye gods!" Shinn, the mayor's oldest girl in The Music Man (1962).
I saw Carousal when I was a child. My father had passed when I was six, and loved ones coming back after their passing was like manna for me and my older sister. That said, you may not understand why the dad goes to heaven. But watching your review made me understand why my sister and I loved this movie. The dad does redeem himself by coming back to see his daughter. When a loved one dies, you are angry with them, and then you feel guilty and you’re also grieving. You’re a mess. But the dad comes back to show he loves his daughter. She forgives him, and that is everything.
I love Carousel for its music but not for the story and its message. In 1977, when I was a senior in high school, the school’s drama department, having a wide choice of musicals, curiously chose this one for the school’s annual spring musical. I was in the school choir, which was chosen to be the pit chorus, so I learned the songs. That is, the songs that were used in the movie. It was decided to follow the movie version and not the stage version, and even then I didn’t like the message of “even when he hits you it means he loves you”. This was at a time when, thanks to the women’s movement, the public was moving away from viewing domestic abuse as an acceptable way to treat women. So I’ll listen to the wonderful music, but I’ll always view the movie as an unfortunate relic of a different time.
@@amyfisher6380 It seems you are projecting something that may not be there. Both Julie and Billy had their character flaws. The major problem was beautifully expressed in the the hauntingly beautiful "If I Loved You." ("But you don't. " "No, I dont." ) Neither Billy nor Julie could acknowledge or express their deep love for one another, until the very end. When Billy finally tells Julie that he loves her, this is resolved and he has earned his eternal rest. The message was never that anger management issues "mean he loves you."
@@NickyMay16 because 'Carousel' was far more of a musical play than 'Oklahoma!' when they started their collaboration in 1943 it still had elements of musical comedy in it 'Allegro' which followed was far more dark and disturbing in many ways than 'Carousel' which took it far ahead of it is time and why it didn't work as well as 'Oklahoma!' and 'Carousel' . 'Allegro' is full of death and adultery and very little humour.
@@stephencowley3661 I’m a big fan but have never even heard of Allegro! I’ll have to try and find clips. Carousel is very moving. It resonates my first marriage although my husband never hit me, it was all emotional torture. The songs are incredible, emotional and moving. I cry every time I hear them. I’ve never thought of it as being dark
You could say, correctly, that Oklahoma has some surprisingly dark and morbid elements without the absurd hyperbole of suggesting it is darker than carousel. It's a Wonderful Life has some really dark elements. That does not mean it is darker than M.
I'll always have a soft spot for Carousel and its film for all its imperfections. Its characters seem the most real to me out of all the R&H musicals and "You'll Never Walk Alone" has to be one of the top five most widely covered anthems of all time
I like it too. They did make some dubious choices: indicating that Jigger ended up in hell was gratuitous and tasteless. Gordon MacRae and Shirley Jones do have a nice chemistry, and it has something the other R&H musicals don't. (I like to think that Billy's in purgatory rather than heaven.) Maybe the story, well suited to 1945, was just a bit too downbeat for the "positive thinking" '50s. I like the Thai ballet of "Uncle Tom's Cabin," otherwise THE KING AND I is pretty painful today. The real King Mongkut was nothing like the semi-civilized clown Yul Brynner played; the real Anna's book about him was a tabloidesque pack of lies! When in Germany, don't mention the war; when in Thailand, don't mention THE KING AND I. They take their monarchy VERY seriously there...
But it's good because it's a lot more ironic and tenuous than, say, "Climb Every Mountain" in Sound of Music, which really is saccharine. Billy is always with his daughter, but not in a way that can protect her from life's hardships, including those he gave her by his behavior. A much more nuanced and real picture of life.
@Blaqjaqshellaq "The King and I" has a particular importance in movie musical history. During an interview, Debirah Kerr was asked whether she had to train for the singing. She replied "Oh, I had a marvellous singer named Marnie Nixon who did all my singing for me." It was the first time a Hollywood star had admitted the existence of playback singers, let alone that they had used one. Miss Kerr was determined that Miss Nixon be acknowledged.
@@zacmumblethunder7466In 1937 Marjorie Lane had caused a kerfuffle by telling a press interviewer that Eleanor Powell was being dubbed. Ellie had good but raspy pipes, whereas Louis B Mayer insisted on sweetly operetta-ish voices like Jeanette's. Secret singers were the norm at MGM. Later the gossip writers were snide about Rita Hayworth not being able to warble 'her' hits on USO tours. So the practise was a semi-open secret, but Marnie Nixon took impersonation to new heights. She was the Mel Blanc of ghost singers.
@esmeephillips5888 That's right, I didn't mean to imply that nobody knew about ghost singers, just that Deborah Kerr was the first recipient of a donated voice to openly and rather joyously admit to it. I saw the footage once, and she came across as being thrilled that they got someone so good to dub her. The studios weren't particularly consistent with the type of singing voice they gave Rita, so it was more obvious that something was not quite all it seemed. They used at least four quite distinct and different singers. Yet it's still possible today to buy CDs of "her greatest hits" with no mention at all of who actually sang them.
I always loved the play of “Carousel” but I could never understand why I disliked the movie so much. Until I saw this video. Thank you for the explanation.
The Carousel Ballet in the Broadway version of the 50's is a must-watch. Very different vibe, and truer to real life in an almost disturbing way. Also a great sailor's hornpipe number not included in the movie. I love this show, and rather prefer the realism of the original Broadway ballet.
Loved the hornpipe. In fact when I played in the orchestra in my high school's production, I tried to memorize my part so I could watch the dancers onstage instead of having to look at my music. I was not entirely successful. And of course in 1971 we didn't really have video recorders
I wasn't born u til the next decade, but growing up, I remember The Carousel Waltz was one of the _big tunes_ that people always, rightly, raved about.
@@zacmumblethunder7466 Indeed. As talented as Rodgers was as a songwriter (first, for providing wonderful melodies for which Lorenz Hart would subsequently write his lyrics, and then later on, for setting Hammerstein's existing lyrics), he was no slouch at composing strictly instrumental pieces, of which the Carousel Waltz is arguably the finest example.
It has never made sense to me why Rodgers and Hammerstein didn't use a different ending from the beginning. The biggest, easiest plot change, in my opinion, that would have made this musical much more timeless and enduring and maybe even compelling would be changing the redemptive act at the end. If he returned to earth to find his daughter being pursued by a boy who was just like a young Billy Bigelow, and Billy himself stopped it in its tracks, that would have been enough. It would have been an indictment of his own behavior, even if he never said it or fully accepted it, it would have been there in the subtext and in the metanarrative that the way he treated Julie was wrong. Even if his pride kept him from saying it out right, he could give his daughter a bit of advice and say something really simple like, "you deserve not just to be loved, but to be loved WELL." It could have even served as a statement about his relationship with her mother. He did love her as far as he was able, but that love was not safe or healthy or good. It hurt her in ways she didn't deserve, and him stopping his daughter from that kind of insecure half finished love would have been redemptive enough, self critical enough, for me to believe in a stage play that our anti hero went to heaven. I even think those poor fragile audiences in 1945 who were not ready to be shown what musical theatre as a medium could really do with drama yet, could have handled that.
I'm really glad I watched this. When I was a teenager, I saw a wonderful high school production of Carousel with that haunting theme music. When I saw the film, I was like, "What is this crap?" Nothing works. But I had never really given it much more thought, until this sharp analysis. Now I am a playwright ("Ella The Ungovernable") whose work may one day hit the big screen. This is like a road map of what to avoid! Perfect for me in particular. Thank you!
Excellent overview on the uninspired Carousel film adaptation. Sad that the original stage material was discarded. The feature of the film that excels is the scoring by Alfred Newman. The orchestrations and underscoring is stunning. Thank you for sharing this essay. Well thought out with integrity.
First time viewer, newest subscriber. Well-informed review. Also appreciated the numerous insightful comments (positive AND negative) this video inspired. Disclaimer: Shirley's my first cousin once removed. In other words, my dad's first cousin (Smithton PA). That having been said, Carousel is my favorite, and most inspirational, of her musicals. Yet I totally agree with your criticisms of the movie. Great work! I'm looking forward to your future postings
I'm new to your channel, but very happy someone young is appreciating those old musicals. The only song I remember being cut from "The King and I" was Anna ranting about how Siamese kowtowed to their king. "Toads! Toads! All of your people are toads!" was apparently too harsh ( I agree) to leave in the film adaptation.
In addition to “Shall I Tell You What I Think of You?” the songs “Western People Funny” (which no one misses) “My Lord and Master” “I Have Dreamed” and a chunk of “Song of the King” didn’t make it into the film
Thank you for this well-informed, respectful commentary. I had the film's soundtrack and listened to it often. When I finally saw the movie it was a shock, starting with that chintzy, clunky heaven sequence. But the soundtrack is still glorious.
I grew up with the soundtrack album, and saw the stage musical, with the original leads, at a young age. When I finally saw the film, I was hugely disappointed. The screenplay and the cutting of songs were bad enough, but the biggest problem to me were the leads, who seemed to still be playing their parts from _Oklahoma_ . We may shake our heads at the notion of Sinatra playing Billy, but he might at least have brought some danger and darkness to the role. McRae seems to be, at most, a bit grouchy at times.
Carousel is truly a masterpiece, and my #1 favorite musical of all. It looks at life and romance honestly, and its resolution is truly a message that love and hope are always possible, despite our flawed human natures and our personal failures. It is the King Lear of musicals.
" Carousel " is a grim, strange story with a few great songs (the overture). I'm not surprised it was a hard sell. It was on TV last night, and I watched the SOLILOQUE song - I love the spirit of this song but forgot how strange the lyrics are!
Carousel is an immense tragedy with the obligatory American "happy" ending. I will avoid the movie version just as my mother told me to decades ago. Did see it staged at Glimmerglass who almost got away with having NO carousel paraphernalia in it. Excellent version and if you avoided looking up at the proscenium you avoided a small carousel horse!
Merry Christmas from New York 🛐🕎. The musical CAROSEL was a favorite of my father. I grew up with that soundtrack. My father died from cancer at age 49. The main character in the play Billy Bigalow was killed committing a robbery. My dad was a N. Y. bridge & tunnel police lieutenant ( human police officers collected tolls before EZ Pass fyi). I always found a sense of cosmic irony in that: both fathers wanted to live long enough to provide for their families. Billy Bigalow (a White man) tried to support his family by robbery and ended up getting killed. My father, an honest Black man, succumbed to a disease. Death, the ultimate equalizer, took both men too soon. MERRY CHRISTMAS (sarcasm & irony intended).
In my opinion, Carousel is the greatest American musical. No other goes as deep, no other risks "the real" with such a deeply moving result. And--did I mention the music?
Carousel is, in my opinion, Rodgers & Hammerstein's masterpiece--with The King And I a possible second place winner (as long as you don't mention it in Thailand, lol) and South Pacific either tied with King or a close third. But really, I don't usually like to rate musicals as if they were contending for ribbons at a county fair. I love R&H (which could also stand for Rodgers & *Hart* , btw) and all of their collaborations have their merits.
Gordon McRae was wonderful as Billy Bigelow. I don’t like the movie carousel because of the storyline and the character Billy Bigelow. McRae’s voice was magnificent and Gordon McRae himself was a better actor and a better screen presence than Frank Sinatra could ever hope to be. That little piece of straw, that little waif Frank Sinatra would not have been able to carry this whole movie. Can you imagine Frank Sinatra in that horizontal stripe T-shirt that Bigelow wears as the carousel barker? No!! And I heard Shirley Jones say many years ago that when Frank Sinatra was told on set, day one that he would have to act every scene twice (filmed twice, second time in ToddAO), he turned on his heel and walked off the set into a car and drove off or was driven off. The other aspect I don’t think many people know is that Gordon MacRae had a drinking problem I don’t know if he was an alcoholic at the time but he did drink. And so when I watch carousel or when I think of carousel I can see the the trouble that Gordon McRae himself was having in his life and it came through in his characterization of Billy Bigelow. That’s why carousel is a sad movie for me because of Gordon McRae’s troubles which I think he displayed on the big screen in Carousel- but not in the earlier Oklahoma.
Sadly, he was definitely an alcoholic while filming 'Carousel'. There were problems during 'Oklahoma!' but they became much worse by the time of 'Carousel', including production having to be shut down while he was in jail for drunk driving. You can see in a few scenes that his face is quite puffy.
Agreed. Frank Sinatra would have been a bust. Perhaps an actor with the depth of James Stewart would have been a more perfect fit than Gordon McRae (who may have been troubled, but still gave off this wholesome, "American boy" vibe--which is why he was the perfect fit for Curly). This movie analysis seems to hit the nail on the head, that the biggest issue in Carousel's casting is that Shirley Jones lacked the life experience to believably play her complex role. Perhaps, had she done research into domestic abuse and how that would effect her character's psyche, she might have been able to pull it off.
Carousel is an extremely dark movie, with messages of spousal abuse, child bullying and abuse, unscrupulous main character eventually murdered. These were most shocking issues especially for a musical which typically are light and bright. The music was stunning though and embraced by entertainers for decades. I remember when Oscar Hammerstein died, and we grieved, believing the Broadway musical would become extinct. Then came Andrew Lloyd Weber and Tim Rice!
Carousel changed how I looked at Broadway musicals. I saw them as tinkly attractions for bored executives and tourists. Then I saw Carousel on the stage. Serious adult story with a refashioned American happy/bittersweet ending. Broadway grows up.
@@ogieogie From my perspective, early and very late Sonheim (West Side Story-Into The Woods) was not only brilliant, but the music spectacular. Some of the middle (Sunday In The Park With George) was tedious to sit through.
I enjoyed this video very much, and just now subscribed to your channel. Well done! Now that I’ve said that, I will (hopefully) entertain you with some reactions to, and stories about, the movie. I was born in the 1950’s and I remember seeing this movie both in a theater, and later when it was shown on television. I do like it-which is not to say that I don’t see its flaws, because I do. Story #1: When I saw it as a little girl, I remember wondering why Julie seemed to be so timid-sort of a wimp, I thought, especially when she explained just WHY Billy had hit her, instead of being hurt or angry about it. Story #2: Fast-forward to my own motherhood of two little girls (now grown). We had the video of this movie. One time when we were watching it, and the Soliloquy came up, my daughters were watching it intently. When Billy said: “A girl…what could I do with her? What could I do FOR her?” my then six-year-old daughter immediately “answered” him, saying rather indignantly, “You could change her diapers!!” (I was rather proud of her, I admit!)
Would have loved to see John Raitt, Bonnie's dad, originating the role of Billy on stage. In later years when he performed Soliloquy in various concerts, he had a hilarious remembrance of being handed that 7-page monstrosity : ) I have to admit I like the little bit of redemption granted Billy in Carousel over Liliom's depressing ending.
Carousel is by no means the first Broadway play or musical show that was butchered if not utterly ruined by Hollywood movie producers trying to make a movie out of it for only the sake of cleaning up easily on a major hit LIVE! show at the movie box office. Richard Rodgers said Carousel was his most favorite and personally satisfying score that he wrote during his nearly 50 years composing music for the theatre. But one really does not have to look much further than the motion picture versions of "Arsenic and Old Lace", "Pal Joey", "Guys and Dolls", "Hello, Dolly!", "Mame", and "A Chorus Line", (just to name a few) that got similar unflattering treatment by Hollywood movie moguls; and the list goes on.
@@lindalarson1948 Yes, Amazon Prime may have cut it. So ridiculous. When TCM shows it, nothing is cut. That is TCM's philosophy: uncut, uncensored films shown as they were meant to be shown. I recently saw it on TCM and it is in the film.
@@KMaddoxThat number has never been shown since 1956, so you must be remembering incorrectly. There is no footage that survives of “You’re a Queer One, Julie Jordan.” Even on my DVD box sets’ special features, they play the audio under a few remaining production stills as there is no footage left to play. Perhaps you saw this special feature?
Carousel is very moving. It resonates my first marriage although my husband never hit me, it was all emotional torture. The songs are incredible, emotional and moving. I cry every time I hear them. I’ve never thought of it as being dark 😳
I love Carousel but they cut too much from the movie version for my taste. Thank goodness much was recorded and is available on the expanded film soundtrack CD.
"Soliloquy" is a monumental solo extravaganza and I believe MacRae's performance compliments the immense beach location. The long hold at the end is OK since he's making an enormous decision about the rest of his life. Ya gotta LOVE that location! Can you be specific regarding "poor casting"? I think Jones's youth enhances the naivete and innocence of Julie, letting herself get into an abusive marriage.
I loved movie, I saw it when it first came out when was 9. To me it is still my favorite musical. Having seen some stage versions, I wish they had kept the entire bench scene.
It’s in the tv adaptation (1967) with Robert Goulet. The script of that version was altered significantly, but the “bench scene” portions of “If I Loved You” were presented intact. 🎠🎪
Current criticism means dumping on the color effects in South Pacific but they were very much enjoyed in the 1950s. I think Bali Hai is fun and beautiful and some of the monochrome is used well in emotional scenes.
The color effects in "South Pacific" were despised by all critics and most audience members. The movie was the top box office movie of the year in spite of the horrendous, off-putting color effects.
My grandfather grew up in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, and my family's opinion was the movie went wrong when they didnt commit to filming the entire movie there.
There is a ballet titled Carousel, which is an approximation of the musical. I saw it performed in San Francisco by that city’s world class ballet company. I would like to report that it was fabulous, but it was a major drag. The carousel consisted of dancers running around in a circle. That was it. The rest was all downhill from that.
Carousel is the first musical I saw in stage....by our local repertory It's made me cry..... And the reason why I was hook to watch stage musicals both local n touring companies Will always have sa soft spot in my heart
As far as the music goes, Carousel is my favourite Rogers and Hammerstein musical. The singing in the movie is great and it is chock full of gorgeous and moving songs.
It COULD be that a musical by R&H that did not reach the level of some of their others might STILL be a half-decent watchable movie if you hold down your expectations. R&H on an off-day were still better than many others on their best day, in some folks' opinions.
In 1971 I played in the orchestra for my high school's production of Carousel. I loved the music, and I just wasn't knowledgeable enough about domestic abuse to be bothered by that aspect of the plot. I listened to the original cast soundtrack record in the school library a time or two, and at some point had the chance to see the movie. I wasn't fond of it. I also found a copy of Liliom in the library, read it, and it depressed me. And then not too long ago I stumbled over a video (on TH-cam, I think, but I could be mistaken) of a new professional production, which was excellent. Then I could never find the video again. Perhaps it was posted for only a limited amount of time. The other musical we did in high school was Carnival. I sang in the chorus on that one. I was only 14 and it wasn't until I got a bit older that I questioned the whole scenario of the male protagonist, Paul, falling in love with Lili but treating her very badly (he even slapped her) and then, surprise surprise, she falls in love with him. Huh? Again, great music.
I couldn't agree more that Carousel is R&H's best musical and that the film was a big disappointment. Kudos to this vid for pointing out some reasons why. The story is really a very intimate focus on two people and their thoughts, particularly their difficulty in connecting, especially in that soliloquy and the duet. Locating it in New England mainly serves to underline the kind of Puritan repressed work ethic (Carrie and Mr. Snow) succeeding while the less conventional, more thoughtful and introverted people have a harder time. Probably also set there to evoke the dark, grungy mill culture of the era in New England (where Julie works). Panoramic views of the coastline are distracting, to say the least. There's also more sentimental romanticizing of the end, which ruins the powerful storyline about the ways people mess up their opportunities time and time again yet still manage to pass on something, however tenuous, to those they love. I first saw this musical when we did it in high school and it's haunted me ever since. It's a great story completely lost in Hollywoodization.
I agree entirely that Carousel is R&H's finest musical. It is Richard Rodgers' finest moment, undoubtedly.The 1995 Hytner production at the Lincoln Centre did a huge amount to resolve the 1956 Hollywood failures and brought it's beauty back, especially the RR original score. That said, despite it's ending, McCrea's Solioquy is a joy, as is "ballet". Above all, remember that RR;s score is exceptional.
Ugh, some of these comments! Folks, people are complicated and many are unsavory, that’s life. With Carousel, Rodgers and Hammerstein have created a masterpiece about flawed characters. No one is asking for your approval or disapproval: the writing team presents the story and says, “ Here they are, in all their imperfection.” As with life, we’re confronted with uneasy truths, and many truths we may not like or agree with. Carousel asks the audience to be adults, because it is telling an adult story. Billy, in many ways, is a hateful character, but we see all throughout the story, how unjustly he has been treated by life, and he is filled with anger and bitterness. Rodgers and Hammerstein presents him and dares us to ask, “Is Billy worthy of forgiveness or redemption? And who decides it?” By the end of the play, Billy has learned. It might not be a lot, but he has earned some forgiveness. He’s still dead at the end of the show, remember! LOL Carousel is my favorite musical, and in my opinion, possibly the greatest achievement in the musicals’ Golden Age. It’s a shame the film is such a disaster. But try to read and listen with an open heart and mind
Oh, come on, tell us how you really feel. I believe the point was how the 1956 film version doesn't quite live up to the stage source. Whether Billy Bigelow earns forgiveness, which he never really asks for (he's not threatened with hell in the movie), ultimately is irrelevant: he always had it from Julie. In any case, there's no need to take the comments so personally. It's nice that "Carousel" is your favorite musical (it must be for you to defend it so vehemently), although if it's forgiveness and redemption we're talking about, give me "Most Happy Fella." You're absolutely right, though, that it comes from an era when musicals were written for grownups, unlike today's lot like "Wicked" and "Hairspray."
couldn't agree with you more! you obviously get what R & H were trying to achieve with your statements. when they wrote 'Carousel' they weren't asking people to approve or disapprove of these characters they were as you say writing about flawed characters, which as I have said in a previous post they continued to do in 'Allegro' 1947 which again were about flawed characters many in that were unsavoury as well but showing Life in all forms life death adultery in the case of 'Allegro' 'Carousel' and 'Allegro' were far more musical plays than 'Oklahoma!' which isn't to say that it didn't have its dark elements too
@@stephencowley3661Allegro flopped because the characters were underwritten: they didn't come across as real, as having any depth. Hammerstein worked at it for years to try to get it right but couldn't.
@@JAS5762 Agree. It's a fantasy-based musical, not a social commentary on real life. I love the imagery and songs now, as I did then. I won't blame the past for being the past.
The movie can only go so far. The play goes deeper. I don’t like the movie but love the play. Carousal is darker and the movie would not let them go that dark.
You pointed out what I think was the most basic problem - the hero hits his wife and dies in a botched robbery. That's the plot of a noir film, not an upbeat musical. As great as some of the music was, it wasn't enough to get past that basic problem.
Thank you for ending this the way you did. You had to say all the negative things throughout the video, because that was the point of it, but you ended it by saying that the story overcomes all of that if you let it.
I love the music from “Carousel”. We had a Rodger’s and Hammerstein kids songbook at home as did our best friends. Our two moms would sit at the piano at either house and accompany us singing “June Is Busting Out All Over”, “Blow High, Blow Low” and “You’ll Never Walk Alone”. When I finally saw the film I was disappointed by the visuals but loved the music. I think that R&H were ahead of their time for taking on the topics of domestic violence, the necessity of really getting to know one’s potential partner before marriage and how charismatic, deadbeat spouses/partners can seriously alter a person’s life in very negative ways.
How refreshing! Someone talking intelligently (and in great detail) about musicals and their movie adaptations. I watched the whole video. Interesting and informative. The technical stuff aside (just don’t get me started on those ridiculous filters used in South Pacific) I absolutely love Carousel (the movie). I thought the teaming of Jones/ McCrae was perfect (so glad Sinatra didn’t play the role - always thought he was overrated). Of all the movie musicals out there, Carousel is definitely my comfort blanket and probably always will be - though I truly hope that Sunset Boulevard will be successfully made for cinema during my lifetime - maybe with the sublime Nicole Scherzinger as Norma - but it MUST have all the over-the-top sets and costumes like the original stage production.
The filters were used because they discovered severe exposure problems with the shots caused by lighting and mechanical problems on location. That would have meant re-filming, requiring time and budget
Agree with you about Sinatra. He was also pegged to star opposite Shirley Jones in tge film adaptation of The Music Man, but Meredith Wilson insisted Robert Preston - who originated the role on Broadway - do it. (Personally, I think the age difference between Jones and Preston is problematic. Nonetheless, Preston was a far better choice than Sinatra.)
@@michaelvaughn2091 Sinatra was three years older than Preston, so no improvement there. Personally, I don’t have an issue with the age gap.. Marian’s not a typical ingenue
Thanks for this. I learned a lot about the film formats that I had no idea about, and how they effected the final movies. I was first acquainted with carousel, king and I, and oklahoma from the LP's of the movies. I would put them, musically, along side with sgt peppers, dark side of the moon, Vivaldi's 4 seasons, Bach's brandenburg concertos, , Blond on blond, Beethoven's 5th etc etc etc as musical masterpieces. Casting is perfect, musically. To view them as a movie, is I guess , a different way to approach them, and a most valid one. I do like happy endings, so I find carousel, king and I, a bit of a downer at the end, but these were decisions made, and brave ones I guess. Also, I do think that it is most unfair to expect a 70 year old musical, in and of itself to address the flaws in some male behaviour. In a way, billy's character is clear from the start, yet Julie chose him, a decision she would later regret in many ways. Billy didnt really change, she was naive to think that she could change him. She kept loving him. This story is played out today thousands of times. The plot is a message. A happy ending would be more pleasant but a cop out. To even think about changing some things in the libretto is both an affront on the integrity of the writer, and a rather silly shallow idea, would you like to reword shakespeare next??. Sorry that is my opinion. Thanks again for this post , and your other ones.
I have always felt really torn by Carousel, somehow as much for its amazing score as by the problematic (especially in this day and age) elements of the story. In some ways, the songs are TOO good, to the point that they feel almost manipulative. In particular, "If I Loved You" and "You'll Never Walk Alone" always have me in tears, literally ugly crying, from the first lines, which makes me hate them on the one hand even as I am carried along by their beauty. This was a really eye-opening look into the background.
The show contains several of the most iconic songs R&H ever wrote. “If I Loved You” and “You’ll Never Walk Alone” are SO wonderful. “Soliloquy” is loaded with the life-changing drama of impending parenthood. Major crossroad of life. It’s controversial, but I love that song. (Beautifully performed by Bonnie Raitt’s father!! If you love Bonnie, check out her dad.)
I like the music in Carousel, but the abuse sticks for me. The only person who thought maybe Billy shouldn't be hitting Julie was the "Bad woman" who ran the carousel. Yes, she wanted Billy to return to working for her, but she still included hitting his wife as a bad thing. "Sometimes a slap feels like a kiss" did me in.
But some people do feel like that about being hit. Some people may think they need therapy, not sympathetic portrayal in a musical. Some people think musicals should only depict 'healthy' relationships. Others differ.
I just watched Laurent Bouzreau's doc about film composer---friggin' awesome, btw.---and the actress who played Carrie was Williams' first wife and mother of his kids, and who died tragically and tragically young.
I saw that revival Which had many lovely moments in it, but still didn’t make me like the show. Audra McDonald was amazing, but the two leads were absolutely awful.
I love musicals and Carousel is my absolute favourite! I don't normally have a favourite anything, so that's saying a lot! After all, with so many great films, actors, songs, books etc how can you choose between them? I love all the songs from this movie and always cry when they sing You'll Never Walk Alone as it reminds me of my dad, who died when I was nine. ❤❤
I love the film version of Carousel and don't agree. I have always found the “starkeeper” sequences out of kilter with the emotional core of the film but once that is out of the way there’s much to be enjoyed.
It's very inconsistencies & lack of logic are part of its charm for me. It's flawed, but marvellous. I always thought they could have made more of the finale though - it really needs about 50,000 Liverpool fans to do it justice!!
I can't stand the film version of Carousel. It has the lowbrow stamp of Fox all over it. Starting with a vision of heaven that appears catered by the Hollywood Woolworths to the barrel-chested Gordon MacRae desperately attempting to fit into Frank Sinatra's skinny boy wardrobe, the entire thing is second-rate from the start--hurdling quickly toward the third-rate. Yes, it was a slight, intimate story of a sympathetic guy with a slight wife-beating problem and the two women who are oddly lost without him. Any intimacy also gets lost in the static widescreen format and the jarring difference between cheap-looking soundstage scenes and the bright, sunny location sequences. If Carousel was to succeed at all, the focus had to be compressed, dramatic and character driven. Where's Robert Wise when you need him? The most absurd thing is this Rodgers and Hammerstein film musical was competing with another Rodgers and Hammerstein product, the much superior The King And I. I believe that Fox promoted the heck out of The King because they knew they had a winner. It would take some effort to mess that story up. Carousel was meant to be nuanced and Darryl F. Zanuck just did not do nuanced.
Cinemascope/ Cinemascope55 at 1:2.55 was noticeably wider... but all three gobbled light and that meant night scenes have to be lit with a lot of lux and that meant studio in the 50s. BUT all three brought colour, sharpness and multitrack sound in a way unseen before.
Liliom, which is the play Carousel is based on had an "unhappy" ending - the slap. the libretto is almost word for word Liliom. If you read the play, you can see where the songs go
I can understand your analysis on the choices of cast, filming type and screenwriting as well as what was left out from the stage production. I'm 70. I knew the music before I'd seen the show because my parents had albums of broadway musicals. When I saw the show, when old enough to understand the story, the only things disturbing were the choices that people were making but that seemed realistic even though the way it was shown wasn't realistic. It is a musical. I've watched the movie many times and it always gets the emotional reaction from me that it builds to. There is one other thing to consider. People of my age and older learned to read films and television shows in styles of shooting and acting that by later standards would be difficult if not impossible for later generations to tolerate or at least accept. I suppose it could have been done better but I'd have to say it's quite effective just as is. For me anyway.
Would have been nice to hear just a little about H&R - how they met and came to work together and their backgrounds. Lots of good info here, not overwhelming- thanks.
I saw the play in 1996 starring Patrick Wilson (then a total unknown who hadn't made a movie yet), and it remains one of the greatest live performances I've ever seen. Then I rented the (pan-and-scan) video, and thought it was... lacking, to say the least.
My parents took me to see a touring production of "Carousel" when I was a little kid and I loved it, and have enjoyed subsequent stage productions as well as the movie. I thought your presentation was very interesting and insightful. The main thing I disliked about the movie was the overworked dance numbers, in particular "June Is Busting Out All Over", which reminded me too much of "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers", a film I have always loathed (sorry!) For the people boo-hooing the darker elements of "Carousel", think a bit about "South Pacific", which deals with racism, war, and death. I think it's the fact that R&H didn't shy away from darker themes adds honesty and real- ity to their musicals, as opposed to just relentlessly cheerful singing and dancing (sorry again, Seven Brides.)
Had the original choices for the leads, Frank Sinatra and Judy Garland, made the movie, "Carousel" could have been a masterpiece - especially if 20th Century-Fox had got Fritz Lang, who directed a French-language version of the original play "Liliom" in 1934, to direct. With Lang's mastery of the dark side of human behavior and two touching and highly emotional actors like Sinatra and Garland in the leads, "Carousel" could have been a great film. Nonetheless, Alfred Newman deserves a shout-out for his arrangement and conducting of the score, especially "The Carousel Waltz." His complete version on the original soundtrack album is the best performance this music has ever received; better even than Richard Rodgers' own recording.
Agreed about the scoring and recording of “The Carousel Waltz” which orchestrator Edward Powell supposedly had contributed to significantly. To me also that is the best treatment of that waltz, which is my favorite piece of music. Most people may not know it was actually written by Rodgers well before the original show of “Carousel” as a piece originally intended for conductor Paul Whiteman, presenting an overview of popular park settings such as the zoo and other surroundings. It didn’t make its way into “Carousel” until 1945 when Rodgers realized it would be a perfect (usually mimed) prolog to set up the proceedings. (Rodgers disliked overtures as patrons would scramble for their seats, so in this case he preferred instead a unique way to open the show and set up the characters.) Judy Garland, as much as I love her work, may have been a risk cast-wise as she was making requests for example to sing “Soliloquy” which was created after all to be Billy’s dramatic turnabout (no pun intended!) set piece. Gordon MacRae I felt was a great choice to fill in for Sinatra in the role, and ironically Sinatra did have the chance to play a swaggering anti-hero in a few of his own films, including “Pal Joey” released in 1957, one year right after “Carousel” had come out. No disrespect here for screenwriters Phoebe and Henry Ephron, but perhaps there could have been more dialog throughout to darken the tone of Bigelow’s character more fully, which MacRae would have certainly given justice to. In many respects Julie could have been more fully developed also dialog-wise, as Shirley Jones was not given as much to work with as she had in her other roles, including “Oklahoma!” and “The Music Man”. She was somewhat cheated by the script to “Carousel”. As much as I love the film I would certainly advocate that viewers also seek out the opportunity to see a well-staged revival of the show itself for a fuller account of all the original glorious music, as well as more dialog and scenes defining more fully the roles and traits of the characters. 🎠🎪
I encourage people to not simply hate on Carousel (1956) but to discuss it critically or celebrate it. For as many negative things as I may have said in the video, I also mentioned the many merits the film does have (such as the gorgeous score.)
Can you do a video discussing the troubled editing of 1954s A Star Is Born? It was a film ruined by its struggling box office causing it to be cut down and then restored but not fully.
The Carousel Waltz!
Not one of my fav musicals specifically because of the domestic abuse and unearned heaven. I just don’t understand why the plot exists. The only songsI remember from it are my boy Bill and the it’s June song. That isn’t a good sign since I can sing every single song from a whole bunch of musicals including Jesus Christ Superstar, Cabaret, and Oklahoma.
@@jacquelinecallejas1390 What about “You’ll Never Walk Alone”, and “If I loved you” two of the all-time classic numbers???
@@PrivatePrivate-so4ifagreed! Those two songs are worth the rest of the musical. Frankly, I love all of the music from this particular musical. I feel that R&H were at the top of their game when they wrote “Carousel”. Do you have a favorite recording of this musical? My favorite is the London 1993 cast recording.
I saw the 1995 Hytner production at Lincoln Center and the audience (including myself) were literally sobbing at the end. It was like being at a memorial service for someone you knew and cared about. That's how powerful it all was.
I saw the same production and it was as you say. After 30 years I still remember it vividly.
I saw it on tour in Los Angeles - three times. The opening was thrilling when the carousel came together as the music swelled, and the ballet with Louise at the end had me in tears. A brilliant reframing of the show for modern sensibilities.
@@LibbeHaLevy-e2j I heard there were plans to film that version. I assume it shelved because of concerns about it being seen as excusing domestic violence. A shame, because the clips of it I've seen make me wish they had just recorded the stage version for home video at least.
Superb production which I saw in London.
I was in that! My first job in theater. Hytner’s version is the final word.
I saw a local production of”Carousel” about ten years ago (friend playing Julie). Left me in tears. Billy realizes that his impulsive and violent nature cost him the one thing he truly loved.
I like the music a lot for the show. The abuse part of the movie is hard to take for me. I've been beaten a lot myself, and it is very unpleasant. The line that really bothered me in the movie is Shirley Jones saying that getting beaten by her husband felt like a loving embrace, or something of that nature. Maybe the abuse part of the script is easier to ignore if you haven't experienced being kicked, clubbed, beaten and whipped.
Yes, the studio (and later Frank Sinatra) maintained that Sinatra left because he didn't want to have to film scenes twice for two different formats (as happened with Oklahoma!). Shirley Jones in her biography
remembers it differently.
Just days before filming was set to begin on location in Maine, Sinatra quit. He had already pre-recorded all his songs, his costumes were ready, and the cast and crew had already been building sets and rehearsing for a couple of weeks.
The reason was Ava Gardner - his wife. Though they were separated, Gardner was in Italy filming The Barefoot Contessa and wanted Frank at her side. Even though divorce proceedings were moving forward, Sinatra would do anything for Ava. He was on the next plane to Rome.
20th Century Fox had a major R&H musical ready to film on location - and no leading man. Jones suggested they contact Gordon Macrae, who was doing his nightclub show in Las Vegas. He was on a plane the next day, and went before the cameras two days later.
Criticism of Macrae's performance needs to be viewed in that light. He literally had no time to prepare one of the most complex male characters in musical theater.
I wonder if Sinatra had second thoughts about how playing a wife-beater would affect his image?
I heard Shirley Jones say on a talk show I think during the 70s that they were all on set ready to film and Frank Sinatra was informed that he would have to perform each scene twice, the second filming in Todd-AO. Sinatra turned around and left the set and that was that. So Shirley Jones suggested Gordon McRae. And Gordon McaRae was certainly a better billy Bigelow than Frank Sinatra could ever hope to be.
I don't think Sinatra would have been right either. They should have used John Raitt and Jan Clayton who originated the roles. JMO
I quite agree. Sinatra wasn't right 4 this role
Sinatra would have acted the hell out of the role, but fell short musically. MacRae sang the hell out of the role, but fell short dramtically. He simply did not have the acting chops for the role. His strength was his singing, not his acting. Billy Bigelow needs to played by an actor equally adept at both the musical and acting challenges the role requires. Neither Sinatra nor MacRae fit that bill.
I live in Maine, not far from Camden and Boothbay Harbor where some of the movie scenes were filmed. When I'm out on the water, I like to try to imagine which island was the site for the clambake scene. Every movie misses the mark for one viewer or another. But Carousel is a gem, and as the descendant of many generations of coastal Mainers, I consider it a treasure of my Maine heritage.
The Carousel Waltz is one of the most wonderful pieces of music! My parents had an early LP with selections from Roger and Hammerstein. The Carousel Waltz and Slaughter on 10th Avenue were a great help for me (age 5-7) to put a lid on my hyperness.
Note: Carousel was adapted from the great Hungarian playwrite, Molnár Ferenc's 1909 play, Liliom.
Note: Susan Luckey (1938-2012) played Louise Bigalow. Several years later, Ms. Lucky played Zaneeta "Ye gods!" Shinn, the mayor's oldest girl in The Music Man (1962).
I saw Carousal when I was a child. My father had passed when I was six, and loved ones coming back after their passing was like manna for me and my older sister. That said, you may not understand why the dad goes to heaven. But watching your review made me understand why my sister and I loved this movie. The dad does redeem himself by coming back to see his daughter. When a loved one dies, you are angry with them, and then you feel guilty and you’re also grieving. You’re a mess. But the dad comes back to show he loves his daughter. She forgives him, and that is everything.
I love Carousel for its music but not for the story and its message. In 1977, when I was a senior in high school, the school’s drama department, having a wide choice of musicals, curiously chose this one for the school’s annual spring musical. I was in the school choir, which was chosen to be the pit chorus, so I learned the songs. That is, the songs that were used in the movie. It was decided to follow the movie version and not the stage version, and even then I didn’t like the message of “even when he hits you it means he loves you”. This was at a time when, thanks to the women’s movement, the public was moving away from viewing domestic abuse as an acceptable way to treat women. So I’ll listen to the wonderful music, but I’ll always view the movie as an unfortunate relic of a different time.
I think the message of the story is more about forgiveness and recognizing mistakes and how people can change. Julie saw the good in Billy.
@@amyfisher6380 It seems you are projecting something that may not be there. Both Julie and Billy had their character flaws. The major problem was beautifully expressed in the the hauntingly beautiful "If I Loved You." ("But you don't. " "No, I dont." ) Neither Billy nor Julie could acknowledge or express their deep love for one another, until the very end. When Billy finally tells Julie that he loves her, this is resolved and he has earned his eternal rest. The message was never that anger management issues "mean he loves you."
MMM: Carousel is darker than Oklahoma.
Me: Have you actually watched Oklahoma?!?!?
They are dark elements to both, but carousel is far more disturbing
@@NickyMay16 because 'Carousel' was far more of a musical play than 'Oklahoma!' when they started their collaboration in 1943 it still had elements of musical comedy in it 'Allegro' which followed was far more dark and disturbing in many ways than 'Carousel' which took it far ahead of it is time and why it didn't work as well as 'Oklahoma!' and 'Carousel' . 'Allegro' is full of death and adultery and very little humour.
@@stephencowley3661
I’m a big fan but have never even heard of Allegro! I’ll have to try and find clips. Carousel is very moving. It resonates my first marriage although my husband never hit me, it was all emotional torture. The songs are incredible, emotional and moving. I cry every time I hear them. I’ve never thought of it as being dark
You could say, correctly, that Oklahoma has some surprisingly dark and morbid elements without the absurd hyperbole of suggesting it is darker than carousel. It's a Wonderful Life has some really dark elements. That does not mean it is darker than M.
“The daisies in the dell will give off a diff’rent smell/now that Jud is layin’ underground”….
I'll always have a soft spot for Carousel and its film for all its imperfections. Its characters seem the most real to me out of all the R&H musicals and "You'll Never Walk Alone" has to be one of the top five most widely covered anthems of all time
I like it too. They did make some dubious choices: indicating that Jigger ended up in hell was gratuitous and tasteless. Gordon MacRae and Shirley Jones do have a nice chemistry, and it has something the other R&H musicals don't. (I like to think that Billy's in purgatory rather than heaven.) Maybe the story, well suited to 1945, was just a bit too downbeat for the "positive thinking" '50s.
I like the Thai ballet of "Uncle Tom's Cabin," otherwise THE KING AND I is pretty painful today. The real King Mongkut was nothing like the semi-civilized clown Yul Brynner played; the real Anna's book about him was a tabloidesque pack of lies! When in Germany, don't mention the war; when in Thailand, don't mention THE KING AND I. They take their monarchy VERY seriously there...
But it's good because it's a lot more ironic and tenuous than, say, "Climb Every Mountain" in Sound of Music, which really is saccharine. Billy is always with his daughter, but not in a way that can protect her from life's hardships, including those he gave her by his behavior. A much more nuanced and real picture of life.
@Blaqjaqshellaq "The King and I" has a particular importance in movie musical history. During an interview, Debirah Kerr was asked whether she had to train for the singing. She replied "Oh, I had a marvellous singer named Marnie Nixon who did all my singing for me." It was the first time a Hollywood star had admitted the existence of playback singers, let alone that they had used one. Miss Kerr was determined that Miss Nixon be acknowledged.
@@zacmumblethunder7466In 1937 Marjorie Lane had caused a kerfuffle by telling a press interviewer that Eleanor Powell was being dubbed. Ellie had good but raspy pipes, whereas Louis B Mayer insisted on sweetly operetta-ish voices like Jeanette's. Secret singers were the norm at MGM.
Later the gossip writers were snide about Rita Hayworth not being able to warble 'her' hits on USO tours. So the practise was a semi-open secret, but Marnie Nixon took impersonation to new heights. She was the Mel Blanc of ghost singers.
@esmeephillips5888 That's right, I didn't mean to imply that nobody knew about ghost singers, just that Deborah Kerr was the first recipient of a donated voice to openly and rather joyously admit to it. I saw the footage once, and she came across as being thrilled that they got someone so good to dub her.
The studios weren't particularly consistent with the type of singing voice they gave Rita, so it was more obvious that something was not quite all it seemed. They used at least four quite distinct and different singers. Yet it's still possible today to buy CDs of "her greatest hits" with no mention at all of who actually sang them.
I am 67, and I have enjoyed the movie all my life.
I've loved it loved it for almost 70 years- I was 12 when I saw it.
I played Carrie Pipperage in a small local production here in Montana in the 1990's, and fell in love with the music.
"Happier movie" about a family fleeing from the Nazis.
Yes, because they succeed in getting away to to a bright future, which is how the story ends - upbeat.
I always loved the play of “Carousel” but I could never understand why I disliked the movie so much. Until I saw this video. Thank you for the explanation.
The Carousel Ballet in the Broadway version of the 50's is a must-watch. Very different vibe, and truer to real life in an almost disturbing way. Also a great sailor's hornpipe number not included in the movie. I love this show, and rather prefer the realism of the original Broadway ballet.
Loved the hornpipe. In fact when I played in the orchestra in my high school's production, I tried to memorize my part so I could watch the dancers onstage instead of having to look at my music. I was not entirely successful. And of course in 1971 we didn't really have video recorders
Clearly R&H's best score.... "You'll nev'r walk alone" "My boy Billy" and "If I loved you" are fabulous. Almost operatic.
I wasn't born u til the next decade, but growing up, I remember The Carousel Waltz was one of the _big tunes_ that people always, rightly, raved about.
The stage show is quite close to opera. A number of the songs have very long intros and outros that almost link up to the next song.
@@zacmumblethunder7466 Indeed. As talented as Rodgers was as a songwriter (first, for providing wonderful melodies for which Lorenz Hart would subsequently write his lyrics, and then later on, for setting Hammerstein's existing lyrics), he was no slouch at composing strictly instrumental pieces, of which the Carousel Waltz is arguably the finest example.
Shirley Jones' singing was sublime. I can't live without hearing her sing again and again.
It has never made sense to me why Rodgers and Hammerstein didn't use a different ending from the beginning. The biggest, easiest plot change, in my opinion, that would have made this musical much more timeless and enduring and maybe even compelling would be changing the redemptive act at the end. If he returned to earth to find his daughter being pursued by a boy who was just like a young Billy Bigelow, and Billy himself stopped it in its tracks, that would have been enough. It would have been an indictment of his own behavior, even if he never said it or fully accepted it, it would have been there in the subtext and in the metanarrative that the way he treated Julie was wrong. Even if his pride kept him from saying it out right, he could give his daughter a bit of advice and say something really simple like, "you deserve not just to be loved, but to be loved WELL." It could have even served as a statement about his relationship with her mother. He did love her as far as he was able, but that love was not safe or healthy or good. It hurt her in ways she didn't deserve, and him stopping his daughter from that kind of insecure half finished love would have been redemptive enough, self critical enough, for me to believe in a stage play that our anti hero went to heaven. I even think those poor fragile audiences in 1945 who were not ready to be shown what musical theatre as a medium could really do with drama yet, could have handled that.
That was really well done. My hats off to you!
I'm really glad I watched this. When I was a teenager, I saw a wonderful high school production of Carousel with that haunting theme music. When I saw the film, I was like, "What is this crap?" Nothing works. But I had never really given it much more thought, until this sharp analysis. Now I am a playwright ("Ella The Ungovernable") whose work may one day hit the big screen. This is like a road map of what to avoid! Perfect for me in particular. Thank you!
Excellent overview on the uninspired Carousel film adaptation. Sad that the original stage material was discarded. The feature of the film that excels is the scoring by Alfred Newman. The orchestrations and underscoring is stunning. Thank you for sharing this essay. Well thought out with integrity.
First time viewer, newest subscriber. Well-informed review. Also appreciated the numerous insightful comments (positive AND negative) this video inspired.
Disclaimer: Shirley's my first cousin once removed. In other words, my dad's first cousin (Smithton PA).
That having been said, Carousel is my favorite, and most inspirational, of her musicals. Yet I totally agree with your criticisms of the movie.
Great work! I'm looking forward to your future postings
Okay, after this I'm gonna see what else you got, 'cause I like your voice and your sense of humor and your appearance.
"You'll Never Walk Alone" is the most well-known song from this musical and was a big hit for Gerry and the Pacemakers.
In the UK they sing it in stadiums, like "God Bless America" in the USA!
The Brits sure love this song! Seeing thousands singing this together gives me serious chills. ttps://th-cam.com/video/0wymVBJfSak/w-d-xo.html
Don’t forget the other Jerry. Jerry Lewis used to sing this maudlin song every year during the Labor Day Muscular Dystrophy telethon!
@@terrylopez5452 A memory I'd like to forget!
@@terrylopez5452 Once a customer at a cabaret asked Michael Feinstein to play "You'll Never Walk Again".
My father played Billy Bigelow at our church theater group production in early 60's . My mom played piano.
Nifty! 😊
(fun video, my first time seeing you. I liked the pacing, liked the info, the delivery, and the visuals you picked.) 👏👏👏💖
I'm new to your channel, but very happy someone young is appreciating those old musicals.
The only song I remember being cut from "The King and I" was Anna ranting about how Siamese kowtowed to their king. "Toads! Toads! All of your people are toads!" was apparently too harsh ( I agree) to leave in the film adaptation.
In addition to “Shall I Tell You What I Think of You?” the songs “Western People Funny” (which no one misses) “My Lord and Master” “I Have Dreamed” and a chunk of “Song of the King” didn’t make it into the film
@@MovieMusicalMania Thanks! I was raised on the Broadway recording, and only realized songs were missing when I saw the movie as a teen.
Thank you for this well-informed, respectful commentary. I had the film's soundtrack and listened to it often. When I finally saw the movie it was a shock, starting with that chintzy, clunky heaven sequence. But the soundtrack is still glorious.
I grew up with the soundtrack album, and saw the stage musical, with the original leads, at a young age. When I finally saw the film, I was hugely disappointed. The screenplay and the cutting of songs were bad enough, but the biggest problem to me were the leads, who seemed to still be playing their parts from _Oklahoma_ . We may shake our heads at the notion of Sinatra playing Billy, but he might at least have brought some danger and darkness to the role. McRae seems to be, at most, a bit grouchy at times.
Another great video. Happy holidays to you
Carousel is truly a masterpiece, and my #1 favorite musical of all. It looks at life and romance honestly, and its resolution is truly a message that love and hope are always possible, despite our flawed human natures and our personal failures. It is the King Lear of musicals.
" Carousel " is a grim, strange story with a few great songs (the overture). I'm not surprised it was a hard sell. It was on TV last night, and I watched the SOLILOQUE song - I love the spirit of this song but forgot how strange the lyrics are!
Carousel is an immense tragedy with the obligatory American "happy" ending. I will avoid the movie version just as my mother told me to decades ago. Did see it staged at Glimmerglass who almost got away with having NO carousel paraphernalia in it. Excellent version and if you avoided looking up at the proscenium you avoided a small carousel horse!
Merry Christmas from New York 🛐🕎. The musical CAROSEL was a favorite of my father. I grew up with that soundtrack. My father died from cancer at age 49. The main character in the play Billy Bigalow was killed committing a robbery. My dad was a N. Y. bridge & tunnel police lieutenant ( human police officers collected tolls before EZ Pass fyi). I always found a sense of cosmic irony in that: both fathers wanted to live long enough to provide for their families. Billy Bigalow (a White man) tried to support his family by robbery and ended up getting killed. My father, an honest Black man, succumbed to a disease. Death, the ultimate equalizer, took both men too soon. MERRY CHRISTMAS (sarcasm & irony intended).
Wow what a delightful video to watch this Saturday morning
In my opinion, Carousel is the greatest American musical. No other goes as deep, no other risks "the real" with such a deeply moving result. And--did I mention the music?
Carousel is, in my opinion, Rodgers & Hammerstein's masterpiece--with The King And I a possible second place winner (as long as you don't mention it in Thailand, lol) and South Pacific either tied with King or a close third. But really, I don't usually like to rate musicals as if they were contending for ribbons at a county fair. I love R&H (which could also stand for Rodgers & *Hart* , btw) and all of their collaborations have their merits.
Very perceptive! I watch the film every once in a while, hoping it'll be better. I never realized how much the film focusses on landscapes!
Gordon McRae was wonderful as Billy Bigelow. I don’t like the movie carousel because of the storyline and the character Billy Bigelow. McRae’s voice was magnificent and Gordon McRae himself was a better actor and a better screen presence than Frank Sinatra could ever hope to be. That little piece of straw, that little waif Frank Sinatra would not have been able to carry this whole movie. Can you imagine Frank Sinatra in that horizontal stripe T-shirt that Bigelow wears as the carousel barker? No!!
And I heard Shirley Jones say many years ago that when Frank Sinatra was told on set, day one that he would have to act every scene twice (filmed twice, second time in ToddAO), he turned on his heel and walked off the set into a car and drove off or was driven off.
The other aspect I don’t think many people know is that Gordon MacRae had a drinking problem I don’t know if he was an alcoholic at the time but he did drink. And so when I watch carousel or when I think of carousel I can see the the trouble that Gordon McRae himself was having in his life and it came through in his characterization of Billy Bigelow. That’s why carousel is a sad movie for me because of Gordon McRae’s troubles which I think he displayed on the big screen in Carousel- but not in the earlier Oklahoma.
Sadly, he was definitely an alcoholic while filming 'Carousel'. There were problems during 'Oklahoma!' but they became much worse by the time of 'Carousel', including production having to be shut down while he was in jail for drunk driving. You can see in a few scenes that his face is quite puffy.
Agreed. Frank Sinatra would have been a bust. Perhaps an actor with the depth of James Stewart would have been a more perfect fit than Gordon McRae (who may have been troubled, but still gave off this wholesome, "American boy" vibe--which is why he was the perfect fit for Curly).
This movie analysis seems to hit the nail on the head, that the biggest issue in Carousel's casting is that Shirley Jones lacked the life experience to believably play her complex role. Perhaps, had she done research into domestic abuse and how that would effect her character's psyche, she might have been able to pull it off.
Carousel is an extremely dark movie, with messages of spousal abuse, child bullying and abuse, unscrupulous main character eventually murdered. These were most shocking issues especially for a musical which typically are light and bright. The music was stunning though and embraced by entertainers for decades. I remember when Oscar Hammerstein died, and we grieved, believing the Broadway musical would become extinct. Then came Andrew Lloyd Weber and Tim Rice!
and that other guy Stephen somthing? Think he wrote for TV before he started writing musicals.
Hammerstein was Sondheim's long-time mentor and teacher from an early age.
Who made it deader. Than Vaudeville!
Carousel changed how I looked at Broadway musicals. I saw them as tinkly attractions for bored executives and tourists. Then I saw Carousel on the stage. Serious adult story with a refashioned American happy/bittersweet ending.
Broadway grows up.
@@ogieogie From my perspective, early and very late Sonheim (West Side Story-Into The Woods) was not only brilliant, but the music spectacular. Some of the middle (Sunday In The Park With George) was tedious to sit through.
Very good commentary. This is a highly informative video, delivered expertly.
I enjoyed this video very much, and just now subscribed to your channel. Well done!
Now that I’ve said that, I will (hopefully) entertain you with some reactions to, and stories about, the movie. I was born in the 1950’s and I remember seeing this movie both in a theater, and later when it was shown on television. I do like it-which is not to say that I don’t see its flaws, because I do.
Story #1: When I saw it as a little girl, I remember wondering why Julie seemed to be so timid-sort of a wimp, I thought, especially when she explained just WHY Billy had hit her, instead of being hurt or angry about it.
Story #2: Fast-forward to my own motherhood of two little girls (now grown). We had the video of this movie. One time when we were watching it, and the Soliloquy came up, my daughters were watching it intently. When Billy said: “A girl…what could I do with her? What could I do FOR her?” my then six-year-old daughter immediately “answered” him, saying rather indignantly, “You could change her diapers!!” (I was rather proud of her, I admit!)
Would have loved to see John Raitt, Bonnie's dad, originating the role of Billy on stage. In later years when he performed Soliloquy in various concerts, he had a hilarious remembrance of being handed that 7-page monstrosity : ) I have to admit I like the little bit of redemption granted Billy in Carousel over Liliom's depressing ending.
Carousel was AMAZING and I'm talking about the movie.
I was happy to learn that Sondheim's opinion of the show (not the film) matched mine. It's a great musical.
Carousel is by no means the first Broadway play or musical show that was butchered if not utterly ruined by Hollywood movie producers trying to make a movie out of it for only the sake of cleaning up easily on a major hit LIVE! show at the movie box office. Richard Rodgers said Carousel was his most favorite and personally satisfying score that he wrote during his nearly 50 years composing music for the theatre. But one really does not have to look much further than the motion picture versions of "Arsenic and Old Lace", "Pal Joey", "Guys and Dolls", "Hello, Dolly!", "Mame", and "A Chorus Line", (just to name a few) that got similar unflattering treatment by Hollywood movie moguls; and the list goes on.
"You're a Queer One, Julie Jordan" IS in the film.
I don't think it's in every version. I saw it recently on Amazon Prime and it wasn't there. Censored?
@@lindalarson1948 Yes, Amazon Prime may have cut it. So ridiculous. When TCM shows it, nothing is cut. That is TCM's philosophy: uncut, uncensored films shown as they were meant to be shown. I recently saw it on TCM and it is in the film.
@KMaddox I have a friend who gets TCM, and I love watching movies with her. I need to look into getting it in my home.
Yeah, I could swear I saw it in the movie, but it's been a long time.
@@KMaddoxThat number has never been shown since 1956, so you must be remembering incorrectly. There is no footage that survives of “You’re a Queer One, Julie Jordan.” Even on my DVD box sets’ special features, they play the audio under a few remaining production stills as there is no footage left to play. Perhaps you saw this special feature?
Carousel is very moving. It resonates my first marriage although my husband never hit me, it was all emotional torture. The songs are incredible, emotional and moving. I cry every time I hear them. I’ve never thought of it as being dark 😳
I love Carousel but they cut too much from the movie version for my taste.
Thank goodness much was recorded and is available on the expanded film soundtrack CD.
"Soliloquy" is a monumental solo extravaganza and I believe MacRae's performance compliments the immense beach location. The long hold at the end is OK since he's making an enormous decision about the rest of his life. Ya gotta LOVE that location! Can you be specific regarding "poor casting"? I think Jones's youth enhances the naivete and innocence of Julie, letting herself get into an abusive marriage.
I loved movie, I saw it when it first came out when was 9. To me it is still my favorite musical. Having seen some stage versions, I wish they had kept the entire bench scene.
It’s in the tv adaptation (1967) with Robert Goulet. The script of that version was altered significantly, but the “bench scene” portions of “If I Loved You” were presented intact. 🎠🎪
Current criticism means dumping on the color effects in South Pacific but they were very much enjoyed in the 1950s. I think Bali Hai is fun and beautiful and some of the monochrome is used well in emotional scenes.
The color effects in "South Pacific" were despised by all critics and most audience members. The movie was the top box office movie of the year in spite of the horrendous, off-putting color effects.
@@SandVioletthis is absolutely true. Those color washes were generally (though not always) hated, and still are.
My grandfather grew up in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, and my family's opinion was the movie went wrong when they didnt commit to filming the entire movie there.
There is a ballet titled Carousel, which is an approximation of the musical. I saw it performed in San Francisco by that city’s world class ballet company.
I would like to report that it was fabulous, but it was a major drag. The carousel consisted of dancers running around in a circle. That was it. The rest was all downhill from that.
The high point of Rodgers and Hammerstein's partnership. It deserves a better movie version.
Carousel is the first musical I saw in stage....by our local repertory
It's made me cry.....
And the reason why I was hook to watch stage musicals both local n touring companies
Will always have sa soft spot in my heart
I have the same feelings about Carousel that I have about Grease. Love the music, hate the story.
As far as the music goes, Carousel is my favourite Rogers and Hammerstein musical. The singing in the movie is great and it is chock full of gorgeous and moving songs.
Carousel is my favorite R&H score.
It COULD be that a musical by R&H that did not reach the level of some of their others might STILL be a half-decent watchable movie if you hold down your expectations. R&H on an off-day were still better than many others on their best day, in some folks' opinions.
Thanks for your great insight!
In 1971 I played in the orchestra for my high school's production of Carousel. I loved the music, and I just wasn't knowledgeable enough about domestic abuse to be bothered by that aspect of the plot. I listened to the original cast soundtrack record in the school library a time or two, and at some point had the chance to see the movie. I wasn't fond of it. I also found a copy of Liliom in the library, read it, and it depressed me. And then not too long ago I stumbled over a video (on TH-cam, I think, but I could be mistaken) of a new professional production, which was excellent. Then I could never find the video again. Perhaps it was posted for only a limited amount of time. The other musical we did in high school was Carnival. I sang in the chorus on that one. I was only 14 and it wasn't until I got a bit older that I questioned the whole scenario of the male protagonist, Paul, falling in love with Lili but treating her very badly (he even slapped her) and then, surprise surprise, she falls in love with him. Huh? Again, great music.
I couldn't agree more that Carousel is R&H's best musical and that the film was a big disappointment. Kudos to this vid for pointing out some reasons why. The story is really a very intimate focus on two people and their thoughts, particularly their difficulty in connecting, especially in that soliloquy and the duet. Locating it in New England mainly serves to underline the kind of Puritan repressed work ethic (Carrie and Mr. Snow) succeeding while the less conventional, more thoughtful and introverted people have a harder time. Probably also set there to evoke the dark, grungy mill culture of the era in New England (where Julie works). Panoramic views of the coastline are distracting, to say the least. There's also more sentimental romanticizing of the end, which ruins the powerful storyline about the ways people mess up their opportunities time and time again yet still manage to pass on something, however tenuous, to those they love. I first saw this musical when we did it in high school and it's haunted me ever since. It's a great story completely lost in Hollywoodization.
I agree entirely that Carousel is R&H's finest musical. It is Richard Rodgers' finest moment, undoubtedly.The 1995 Hytner production at the Lincoln Centre did a huge amount to resolve the 1956 Hollywood failures and brought it's beauty back, especially the RR original score. That said, despite it's ending, McCrea's Solioquy is a joy, as is "ballet". Above all, remember that RR;s score is exceptional.
Great job mate ❤
Ugh, some of these comments!
Folks, people are complicated and many are unsavory, that’s life. With Carousel, Rodgers and Hammerstein have created a masterpiece about flawed characters. No one is asking for your approval or disapproval: the writing team presents the story and says, “ Here they are, in all their imperfection.” As with life, we’re confronted with uneasy truths, and many truths we may not like or agree with.
Carousel asks the audience to be adults, because it is telling an adult story. Billy, in many ways, is a hateful character, but we see all throughout the story, how unjustly he has been treated by life, and he is filled with anger and bitterness. Rodgers and Hammerstein presents him and dares us to ask, “Is Billy worthy of forgiveness or redemption? And who decides it?” By the end of the play, Billy has learned. It might not be a lot, but he has earned some forgiveness. He’s still dead at the end of the show, remember! LOL
Carousel is my favorite musical, and in my opinion, possibly the greatest achievement in the musicals’ Golden Age. It’s a shame the film is such a disaster. But try to read and listen with an open heart and mind
Oh, come on, tell us how you really feel.
I believe the point was how the 1956 film version doesn't quite live up to the stage source. Whether Billy Bigelow earns forgiveness, which he never really asks for (he's not threatened with hell in the movie), ultimately is irrelevant: he always had it from Julie. In any case, there's no need to take the comments so personally. It's nice that "Carousel" is your favorite musical (it must be for you to defend it so vehemently), although if it's forgiveness and redemption we're talking about, give me "Most Happy Fella." You're absolutely right, though, that it comes from an era when musicals were written for grownups, unlike today's lot like "Wicked" and "Hairspray."
Wasn’t I clear? 😄😄😄😄
Sorry. Carousel is one I take very seriously. I get carried away. I adore The Most Happy Fella as well!
couldn't agree with you more! you obviously get what R & H were trying to achieve with your statements. when they wrote 'Carousel' they weren't asking people to approve or disapprove of these characters they were as you say writing about flawed characters, which as I have said in a previous post they continued to do in 'Allegro' 1947 which again were about flawed characters many in that were unsavoury as well but showing Life in all forms life death adultery in the case of 'Allegro'
'Carousel' and 'Allegro' were far more musical plays than 'Oklahoma!' which isn't to say that it didn't have its dark elements too
@@stephencowley3661Allegro flopped because the characters were underwritten: they didn't come across as real, as having any depth. Hammerstein worked at it for years to try to get it right but couldn't.
@@JAS5762 Agree. It's a fantasy-based musical, not a social commentary on real life. I love the imagery and songs now, as I did then. I won't blame the past for being the past.
The movie can only go so far. The play goes deeper. I don’t like the movie but love the play. Carousal is darker and the movie would not let them go that dark.
Very nice analysis!
It's funny to me that "Oklahoma !" was a bigger hit movie musical, but for me, "Carousel" had the hook which made it more enjoyable to me.
You pointed out what I think was the most basic problem - the hero hits his wife and dies in a botched robbery. That's the plot of a noir film, not an upbeat musical. As great as some of the music was, it wasn't enough to get past that basic problem.
Thank you for ending this the way you did. You had to say all the negative things throughout the video, because that was the point of it, but you ended it by saying that the story overcomes all of that if you let it.
I love the music from “Carousel”. We had a Rodger’s and Hammerstein kids songbook at home as did our best friends. Our two moms would sit at the piano at either house and accompany us singing “June Is Busting Out All Over”, “Blow High, Blow Low” and “You’ll Never Walk Alone”. When I finally saw the film I was disappointed by the visuals but loved the music. I think that R&H were ahead of their time for taking on the topics of domestic violence, the necessity of really getting to know one’s potential partner before marriage and how charismatic, deadbeat spouses/partners can seriously alter a person’s life in very negative ways.
How refreshing! Someone talking intelligently (and in great detail) about musicals and their movie adaptations. I watched the whole video. Interesting and informative. The technical stuff aside (just don’t get me started on those ridiculous filters used in South Pacific) I absolutely love Carousel (the movie). I thought the teaming of Jones/ McCrae was perfect (so glad Sinatra didn’t play the role - always thought he was overrated). Of all the movie musicals out there, Carousel is definitely my comfort blanket and probably always will be - though I truly hope that Sunset Boulevard will be successfully made for cinema during my lifetime - maybe with the sublime Nicole Scherzinger as Norma - but it MUST have all the over-the-top sets and costumes like the original stage production.
Wow, I have never seen anyone else say what I've always thought about Sinatra!
I'm still hoping for a good adaptation of Evita.
The filters were used because they discovered severe exposure problems with the shots caused by lighting and mechanical problems on location. That would have meant re-filming, requiring time and budget
Agree with you about Sinatra. He was also pegged to star opposite Shirley Jones in tge film adaptation of The Music Man, but Meredith Wilson insisted Robert Preston - who originated the role on Broadway - do it. (Personally, I think the age difference between Jones and Preston is problematic. Nonetheless, Preston was a far better choice than Sinatra.)
@@michaelvaughn2091 Sinatra was three years older than Preston, so no improvement there. Personally, I don’t have an issue with the age gap.. Marian’s not a typical ingenue
Thanks for this. I learned a lot about the film formats that I had no idea about, and how they effected the final movies. I was first acquainted with carousel, king and I, and oklahoma from the LP's of the movies. I would put them, musically, along side with sgt peppers, dark side of the moon, Vivaldi's 4 seasons, Bach's brandenburg concertos, , Blond on blond, Beethoven's 5th etc etc etc as musical masterpieces. Casting is perfect, musically. To view them as a movie, is I guess , a different way to approach them, and a most valid one. I do like happy endings, so I find carousel, king and I, a bit of a downer at the end, but these were decisions made, and brave ones I guess. Also, I do think that it is most unfair to expect a 70 year old musical, in and of itself to address the flaws in some male behaviour. In a way, billy's character is clear from the start, yet Julie chose him, a decision she would later regret in many ways. Billy didnt really change, she was naive to think that she could change him. She kept loving him. This story is played out today thousands of times. The plot is a message. A happy ending would be more pleasant but a cop out. To even think about changing some things in the libretto is both an affront on the integrity of the writer, and a rather silly shallow idea, would you like to reword shakespeare next??. Sorry that is my opinion.
Thanks again for this post , and your other ones.
Carousel was always my favorite musical too. I love the walz tempos.
I have always felt really torn by Carousel, somehow as much for its amazing score as by the problematic (especially in this day and age) elements of the story. In some ways, the songs are TOO good, to the point that they feel almost manipulative. In particular, "If I Loved You" and "You'll Never Walk Alone" always have me in tears, literally ugly crying, from the first lines, which makes me hate them on the one hand even as I am carried along by their beauty. This was a really eye-opening look into the background.
Thank you for this review.
The show contains several of the most iconic songs R&H ever wrote. “If I Loved You” and “You’ll Never Walk Alone” are SO wonderful.
“Soliloquy” is loaded with the life-changing drama of impending parenthood. Major crossroad of life. It’s controversial, but I love that song. (Beautifully performed by Bonnie Raitt’s father!! If you love Bonnie, check out her dad.)
I like the music in Carousel, but the abuse sticks for me. The only person who thought maybe Billy shouldn't be hitting Julie was the "Bad woman" who ran the carousel. Yes, she wanted Billy to return to working for her, but she still included hitting his wife as a bad thing. "Sometimes a slap feels like a kiss" did me in.
But some people do feel like that about being hit. Some people may think they need therapy, not sympathetic portrayal in a musical. Some people think musicals should only depict 'healthy' relationships. Others differ.
I just watched Laurent Bouzreau's doc about film composer---friggin' awesome, btw.---and the actress who played Carrie was Williams' first wife and mother of his kids, and who died tragically and tragically young.
I meant to write "Laurent Bouzreau's doc about film composer JOHN WILLIAMS." ... left out the last two words/Williams' name.
I expect you are far too young to have seen the 1994, Lincoln Center revival of Carousel directed by Nicholas Hytner. It was a spectacular revival.
I saw that revival Which had many lovely moments in it, but still didn’t make me like the show. Audra McDonald was amazing, but the two leads were absolutely awful.
The Hytner production was actually a British production originally staged at the Royal National Theatre in London.
Good info. I've wondered about the choice of how various shots were filmed - but now I know - CinemaScope 55!
I love musicals and Carousel is my absolute favourite! I don't normally have a favourite anything, so that's saying a lot! After all, with so many great films, actors, songs, books etc how can you choose between them? I love all the songs from this movie and always cry when they sing You'll Never Walk Alone as it reminds me of my dad, who died when I was nine. ❤❤
Carousel remains my favorite of their filmed musicals.
Wow! This is so informative and insightful! A young guy, but so smart!
I love the film version of Carousel and don't agree. I have always found the “starkeeper” sequences out of kilter with the emotional core of the film but once that is out of the way there’s much to be enjoyed.
At 4:04 In this advertising banner Gloria Graham had higher billing than Shirley Jones and Gene Nelson. Amazing.
Grew up watching it, I think my mom had a Rogers and Hammerstein Box set of VHS tapes. Always adored the songs, the plot not so much.
It's very inconsistencies & lack of logic are part of its charm for me. It's flawed, but marvellous. I always thought they could have made more of the finale though - it really needs about 50,000 Liverpool fans to do it justice!!
This came as a surprise. I love the movie.
I can't stand the film version of Carousel. It has the lowbrow stamp of Fox all over it. Starting with a vision of heaven that appears catered by the Hollywood Woolworths to the barrel-chested Gordon MacRae desperately attempting to fit into Frank Sinatra's skinny boy wardrobe, the entire thing is second-rate from the start--hurdling quickly toward the third-rate. Yes, it was a slight, intimate story of a sympathetic guy with a slight wife-beating problem and the two women who are oddly lost without him. Any intimacy also gets lost in the static widescreen format and the jarring difference between cheap-looking soundstage scenes and the bright, sunny location sequences. If Carousel was to succeed at all, the focus had to be compressed, dramatic and character driven. Where's Robert Wise when you need him? The most absurd thing is this Rodgers and Hammerstein film musical was competing with another Rodgers and Hammerstein product, the much superior The King And I. I believe that Fox promoted the heck out of The King because they knew they had a winner. It would take some effort to mess that story up. Carousel was meant to be nuanced and Darryl F. Zanuck just did not do nuanced.
70mm (2.20:1) is the best format for musicals. Intimacy yet panoramic.
Cinemascope/ Cinemascope55 at 1:2.55 was noticeably wider... but all three gobbled light and that meant night scenes have to be lit with a lot of lux and that meant studio in the 50s. BUT all three brought colour, sharpness and multitrack sound in a way unseen before.
Superb analysis of a sadly misfired film. I would be curious to know what you think of the film of FLOWER DRUM SONG.
I hated it. Even today, 50 years plus since I first saw it, I cannot bear to watch it again.
Liliom, which is the play Carousel is based on had an "unhappy" ending - the slap. the libretto is almost word for word Liliom. If you read the play, you can see where the songs go
Great video. I'd like to see your post mortem on the film version of Man of La Mancha. Great play, terrible movie.
I can understand your analysis on the choices of cast, filming type and screenwriting as well as what was left out from the stage production. I'm 70. I knew the music before I'd seen the show because my parents had albums of broadway musicals. When I saw the show, when old enough to understand the story, the only things disturbing were the choices that people were making but that seemed realistic even though the way it was shown wasn't realistic. It is a musical. I've watched the movie many times and it always gets the emotional reaction from me that it builds to. There is one other thing to consider. People of my age and older learned to read films and television shows in styles of shooting and acting that by later standards would be difficult if not impossible for later generations to tolerate or at least accept. I suppose it could have been done better but I'd have to say it's quite effective just as is. For me anyway.
You'll Never Walk Alone became a British football anthem by the late 60s. It features prominaly on Pink Floyd's Meddle album.
Would have been nice to hear just a little about H&R - how they met and came to work together and their backgrounds.
Lots of good info here, not overwhelming- thanks.
Did it have a plot? Did it have a story? I didn't notice -- it's my favorite R&H, the one with beautiful music.
Visually memorable with great music. All I care about in a musical.
I saw the play in 1996 starring Patrick Wilson (then a total unknown who hadn't made a movie yet), and it remains one of the greatest live performances I've ever seen. Then I rented the (pan-and-scan) video, and thought it was... lacking, to say the least.
My parents took me to see a touring production of "Carousel" when I was a little kid and I loved it, and have enjoyed
subsequent stage productions as well as the movie. I thought your presentation was very interesting and insightful.
The main thing I disliked about the movie was the overworked dance numbers, in particular "June Is Busting Out
All Over", which reminded me too much of "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers", a film I have always loathed (sorry!)
For the people boo-hooing the darker elements of "Carousel", think a bit about "South Pacific", which deals with
racism, war, and death. I think it's the fact that R&H didn't shy away from darker themes adds honesty and real-
ity to their musicals, as opposed to just relentlessly cheerful singing and dancing (sorry again, Seven Brides.)
Had the original choices for the leads, Frank Sinatra and Judy Garland, made the movie, "Carousel" could have been a masterpiece - especially if 20th Century-Fox had got Fritz Lang, who directed a French-language version of the original play "Liliom" in 1934, to direct. With Lang's mastery of the dark side of human behavior and two touching and highly emotional actors like Sinatra and Garland in the leads, "Carousel" could have been a great film. Nonetheless, Alfred Newman deserves a shout-out for his arrangement and conducting of the score, especially "The Carousel Waltz." His complete version on the original soundtrack album is the best performance this music has ever received; better even than Richard Rodgers' own recording.
Agreed about the scoring and recording of “The Carousel Waltz” which orchestrator Edward Powell supposedly had contributed to significantly. To me also that is the best treatment of that waltz, which is my favorite piece of music. Most people may not know it was actually written by Rodgers well before the original show of “Carousel” as a piece originally intended for conductor Paul Whiteman, presenting an overview of popular park settings such as the zoo and other surroundings. It didn’t make its way into “Carousel” until 1945 when Rodgers realized it would be a perfect (usually mimed) prolog to set up the proceedings. (Rodgers disliked overtures as patrons would scramble for their seats, so in this case he preferred instead a unique way to open the show and set up the characters.)
Judy Garland, as much as I love her work, may have been a risk cast-wise as she was making requests for example to sing “Soliloquy” which was created after all to be Billy’s dramatic turnabout (no pun intended!) set piece.
Gordon MacRae I felt was a great choice to fill in for Sinatra in the role, and ironically Sinatra did have the chance to play a swaggering anti-hero in a few of his own films, including “Pal Joey” released in 1957, one year right after “Carousel” had come out.
No disrespect here for screenwriters Phoebe and Henry Ephron, but perhaps there could have been more dialog throughout to darken the tone of Bigelow’s character more fully, which MacRae would have certainly given justice to.
In many respects Julie could have been more fully developed also dialog-wise, as Shirley Jones was not given as much to work with as she had in her other roles, including “Oklahoma!” and “The Music Man”. She was somewhat cheated by the script to “Carousel”.
As much as I love the film I would certainly advocate that viewers also seek out the opportunity to see a well-staged revival of the show itself for a fuller account of all the original glorious music, as well as more dialog and scenes defining more fully the roles and traits of the characters. 🎠🎪