PCGS Return Unboxing Part:2 What did they GRADE?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2018
- I sent off my first batch of coins to PCGS. Ready to see what they graded and how I did on what I expected.
Billyazprospector
P.O. Box 72467
2550 E. Rose Garden Ln
Phoenix, AZ 85050
Enjoyed watching your video. I hope you make more. It was different, Interesting, and fun to see how you were going to do. Thank you for sharing.
You need to submit not one coin but multiple coins of the same date. You have to start with coins that are less in grade and work your coins up in grade. If you give the grader just one coin to the grade, he's going to grade the coin low. Start with an MS60 then say a coin you think is an MS62 and so on up the scale. When you submit your coins you determine the order in which they are chosen to be graded. That is the order you put them on your form. The lines are numbered just for that reason. And if you don't want the coin slabbed, mark the box ON LINE 6 DO NOT HOLDER GENUINE. Then send them off to NGC or ANAC for grading. ANAC is only a fraction of the cost. Then do a crossover to PCGS. If they come back with the curse of Graffiti, which is usually when some SOB has circled something or initials are scratched on the coin, you aren't paying the big bucks to get disappointed. As for color, find some old junk Lincolns and try cleaning them. Try the lemon trick or the vinegar baking soda Hydrogen peroxide method, and use the MS 70 solution. You will see just what happens to the coins and you get to see first hand what color (s) come from trying to clean them. Then try baking your coins or using a torch, or just check out all the ways to ruin your coins on TH-cam. You need to learn these things or you will continue to buy cleaned coins and submit coins that will not grade and cost you an arm and a leg. They are strict for a reason, PCGS is the best for a reason, they don't let crap slip by. Try collecting two maybe three coins of the same date and submit them and watch to see how you did. I found grading your coins under the screen of your laptop is the best when it comes to seeing imperfections. I set the screen to a nearly all-white display, then set brightness to full and tilt the screen down and then grade my coin under that light. It's a different frequency light, That is how they grade coins, by that light. Not your Kitchen or bedroom light. Try it and you'll see your coins all together differently. First time sucks, you will begin to see coins in a whole new light, you won't be so fast to buy because of what you think, you'll buy because of what you know will grade and be realistic if someone says it an MS 67, take 4 off and offer them that price. Works for me.
Best comment. Period.
I'm no expert in the coin world. But I was told by many of the older fellas that NGC is a better grading company than PCGS. And questionable color? Aren't they supposed to be the ones answering the questions?
The one from Craig’s list what tooled mean was someone took a tool and etched around the stars and edges of the eagle to make it stand out and look nicer.
Great video! I'm super new at submitting coins to PCGS too. I'm learning a lot with these type of videos. Thanks for the info I really enjoyed the unboxing. Take care & I wish you the best of luck on your next submission. I'll be watching! :) GL & HH
Really enjoyed your vid. Thanks for sharing with us...despite the outcome. Best wishes.
Very happy with this and your part 1. They were very educational and informative, I liked following your thoughts before and after. I would have liked it if you had discussed the costs wrapped up in the grading process and why you chose PCGS over NGC. Looking forward to more vids like this. Thanks for sharing.
Welcome to the second half of your grading education! I was an "expert" on MS Morgan dollar grades until I got actual grading. Then I really started to learn. As for your batch...well a worn shiny coin was obviously cleaned! And microscopic scratches all in the same direction is something PCGS won't ignore.
PCGS is tough on grading. I have seen where people have a NGC slabbed coin say at MS-60 and come back from PCGS at AU-58. I wish your grades would of been better. So many people are disappointed with their grades from grading company's. It is a very good video. It is educational for all who wish to send their coins off for grading. Thanks for the great video and again sorry for the end results.
Yes so in other words,
What you were saying is grading is subjective! Even between NGC and PCGS...
So who's right and who's wrong between these two grading companies?
They're opinion on grading is no more better than anyone else's except for the fact that they are a third party player!
Phoenix collector checking in, good set of videos, Thanks!
Thanks for sharing. I know it's disappointing and I can hear the frustration. Congrats on your '21 SL which paid for the submission expenses. I hope you don't regret it overall. It's a fun learning experience at the very least. You have some beautiful coins here and I would definitely have sent them off too. I'm getting ready for my first coin submission and I'm thinking I can take the slow boat at NGC for around $30/coin, all in.
I've done the NGC route as well. Happy both directions!
Hi mate, I’m in Australia, you are lucky that you have such a long history of coins in America. No silver to be found in our change. I live near Perth mint, I love it there it’s honestly awesome, they have gold nuggets as big as a apple and every size in between. But I’m there for the coins. Better luck on your next batch you send in.
I would suggest a USB microscope and PCGS Photo Grading page to compare
Great video I learned a lot from it thank you so much
Glad to hear it!
I find it helpful in determining if a coin is cleaned to take a picture.
Also i would suggest a 10 power loupe and good lighting for grading. Hope this helps.
Also when the coin looks too shiny for the condition and there's a lot of dirt in stars and crevices
Worked at a coin shop and when you tell these people that walk in about there coins some get really mad
Paul Dyche I can imagine them being mad partly at themselves for finding out that the coin they have isn’t what they thought it is, and upset that coin shop isn’t paying for coins in less than desirable conditions.
That’ll drive a man to drink.
TOOLED refers to either the smoothing of a coin's fields to remove scratches, corrosion and other forms of damage or to the restoration of lost details through use of a graver or knife. When a single side of the coin is affected, the terms OBV TOOLED and REV TOOLED are used.
Enjoyed the video , I'm a coin collector as well. I used to buy raw coins and have them graded by PCGS and I know your frustration . I still have raw coins graded from time to time but not very often,it's to much hit and miss,for me it was more miss than hits.You still got some nice coins,congratulations on the 1921 standing that was pretty much a grand slam. Thanks again for the video. ✌
Thank you, hope to have more in the future...
And yes your grandfather's coin was either cleaned or stored in properly and they gave it a some kind of toning but I believe it was cleaned myself and they can tell believe me they know their metal
Yes. It was cleaned in an acid ad it turned the copper yellow. It's an off color. Really wrong.
Like when a new penny goes in the laundry and looks pink. Can't fix that!
WOW -- at 3:25 -- gorgeous cent, man! looks a solid 66 or better; at 4:25 the '36 looks so much nicer than that. You have to start counting every single little speck you can see with a heavy maginifier, more than one or two (especially in the fields) and the swoon is on! At 5:50 the Indian cent is just too darn out of this world! Fabulous color, fabulous strike. Hell, it don't belong to one of them or their top dealer -- It's so gorgeous it might be a fake! (Yeah, right.) At 8:40 grafitti ...are you kidding me? At 9:50 I don't agree again, but the other way -- I'd have given that an 8 (the reverse was a lot better than the obverse.) at 10:20 Nice going! At 19:10 the Morgan had minimal bag marks and deserved a 64 -- the fields were even nicer; At 19:40 same with the other Morgan. By PCGS own photograde standards your Morgans looked a full grade higher than what they got. This was a perfect example of why I can't stand PCGS. If you could resubmit them again, they'd all come back different.
That’s what I say, crack them and keep sending them in until you get the grade you like.
for the 1950-s, it graded a lot lower because of the big hit on lincoln's cheek. Thats a very grade-sensitive area on most coins, so you should make sure to check it before you buy a coin. Same with the 1936. There are tons of scratches on lincolns bust which is once again a grade-sensitive area. I recommend downloading the PCGS Photograde app, it really helped me because I used to struggle with grading. This is a great channel and I am a new sub.
WHAT? DO YOU WORK FOR PCGS? SHILL!
I enjoyed this video while I was organizing my own coin collection.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm seeing a line around the left wing of your tooled bust half. That might me why it got that designation.
Thanks for the "What did they GRADE' videos. I just got back from a two day seminar at the FUN Show in Orlando. The course instructors where two guys that that have either worked at PCGS or now work at PCGS they have graded hundreds of thousands of coins. In short, the two guys cannot even conclude the same grade for a coin (most of the time). We graded many series of coins and I only got about 25% correct (the exact grade). A very good person who grades at PCGS is correct about 68% of the time (this is what my instructor told us). I will never buy an ungraded coin (unless of course the coin value of really low). In short, coin grading is extremely subjective! My instructor also told us that he cracks out coins and resubmits and resubmits until he gets the grade he was looking for.
RDub Stacks great insight! May just have to break some out!!
I had a similar issue with ANACS. Had a half dime come back "scratched". I could not believe it until I examined the reverse, and there was the small scratch. They were right. I was not as diligent with the magnifier as the coin looked nice with dark original toning. I do struggle with the "Questionable color". I have never been able to find a definition for this designation.
ANACS in my opinion is a far superior grader than PCGS.
Yes!
And it is what it is!
If there is some kind of noticable problem, like a scratch or something else even upon your own re-examination you may have missed, that's understandable.
But some things are just not there..
And PCGS/NGC will have a tendency to low-ball certain things,even if it just not there!
In my own experience upon closer re-examination...
Thank you for sharing .
Ok I will comment and will be adding / editing this comment , so bear with me...
The 50 Wheats are easy to get a good grade on the D and S mints..... The Philly's are more rare to get a high grade since they are kind of sloppy at that mint. I saw the 36 at that grade it's a great MS-63 for sure. I have a raw 54 S Wheaty that I thought was a MS-68, but looking at some PCGS slabbed coins on Ebay I changed my mind.....It's a 67 but I will never know cause i am not going to send it in with my W Lowell MS-67 quarter. They want me to be a member .... They mis lead me in a email saying they would give me a deal for a 20 dollar fee for grading my W quarter...
The 1899 IHP maybe they thought it was dipped , not cleaned though. It would have come back CLEANED on the label.. I thought that was a straight up SLQ I thought cleaned when I saw it .....Bam I got that one ...Ok the second 1917 looked great to me , but the scratches on the reverse makes it Damaged or Graffiti ??...That's a 225.00 dollar coin Raw grade ..... NGC wouldn't give a graffiti grade ...Yes that 21 is well over 700 bux nice score on that one .. Raw price BTW...
The Indian head nickel Is a straight up XF and I love the toning starting up on it ... I have a 30 S VF That has a lil over 5.4 million minted, Your 31 S is the only minted Buffalo nickel that was minted by only 1 mint that year, except for the 38 D over S which I don't see 2 mints for that 38 year....That's up in the air LOL...
Barbers are my favorite, I only HAD 1 or 2 when I was younger.... A couple dimes from my Na Na (Godmother)in Cajun French .... She used to give me silver dimes for my B-Day and Christmas presents when I was a kid.... She knew I collected coins....
Ok now to the tooled, That means kind of improvements to the coin to maybe hide something or improve it ... IMHO ... Wow I thought the 1912 S half was gonna be Scratched details not cleaned .... SMH
I like the Lady's ....LOL... Morgan's I mean .... THE 63 should be higher IMHO but it's hard for them to be higher for some dang reason .. Your 61 grade should be a notch above IMHO .... You have great coins right there... All of them are a venture back in time and you did a great video bringing us back in time with a lot of history Mon Ami .... I applaude you for that...
Very nice thoughtful comment. I agree w/ you about PCGS, they are pretty clear that they don't want business from small guys. I've noticed they are getting sloppy about what they hang an MS-70 on too. Are there any grading services you like?
@@jeffdurden398 If you want to resell slabbed coins go with PCGS their name sells coins... NGC if for your collection and also selling.... NGC does bring a price also....
As soon as ya showed the 1917 SLQ I said cleaned. It's very obvious by the fields it was cleaned.
I thought the same thing exactly.
absolutely hilarious.. thanks. crack the few on the bunk list and send them off again.
Oh and you have yourself a perfect Holliday Season.
When you get your coins back as tooled. It means its been Polished, scratched or well... Tooled with.
We learn from our mistakes brother...keep on keeping on.
Cool video, great channel, thank you. Subscribed.
Those items are beautiful dude... ✔
The high-points should have a higher reflectivity. But on that penny the low spots are bright and the high spots are dark. Maybe that's what they meant, or it had a little dipping in acetone.
It is clear the first two are not 66. I have a Mercury 66 and the fields look almost flawless to the naked eye and the flaws that lower it to 66 can be seen only by tilting in light and looking carefully. I already see things easily in the fields of yours.
When PCGS refers to "tooled" that can mean certain types of scratches but more of a gouge in order to alter the coin. With early halves such as the capped bust series, people use to shave the edges to slowly accumulate silver. Did you check the edge to see if it still had lettering?
Enjoyed the video.
Thanks for the cool video
Good video for a newbie. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
You did get a few odd grades. At least you had a few really nice ones. If it helps any just know it was enjoyable watching your video. I was rooting for you the whole time. I’m a new subscriber. Semper Fidelis
Hey thanks! I just really like coins and enjoy them... I am in agreement with you on the odd grades. Let me know if you have any thoughts to the questions.
The gold toning on the 1899 says it may have been cleaned with brasso, or silver jewelry cleaner..
I really like that 1908 Barber. For some reason that jumps out at me.
Welcome to the PCGS Tooled, cleaned and damage club. The new 2019 west point quarters with scratches get grades of 65, 66, 67. Don't think they care or look at older coins as much. Grader's are in a hurry to finish the work. I stopped wasting my money on PCGS. You got lucky with the Morgan's. Mine came back cleaned along with all my 1932 quarters. 1932-S and 1932-S. Cleaned. That hurt and was the final straw for me.
So, you’re mad at PCGS that you don’t know how to evaluate what you’re buying properly?
Excellent Video. Thanks. Out.
Ouch. I feel for you; but this is exactly why I don't send in any of my Morgans for grading. Even light cleaning will show up under high magnification. These coins may have changed hands several times and the person you got them from may not have been the one who cleaned / tooled / graffitied them. After grading fees and purchase price, and unless you got a deal on the purchase, it is expensive to grade. Either way, I enjoyed the vid, and the education.
What do they mean by "graffiti"?
Thanks for video. I was think about getting the platinum membership that comes with voucher for ten grades. Do they charge extra fees on top of just grading?
No, Just shipping and handling. - I went with Platinum
Tooled is when a coin has had details either reengraved, or enhanced, with an engraving tool or by other mechanical means.
Hi, I’m sending in two groupings of 1909 1C to 1955, 18 total. Very curious to see what’s the surprise gradings will be.
Tooled just means someone had used a mechanical means to buff out a damaged or faulty area of the coin. As it relates to cleaned coins, if the outer field is dark around the lettering or images .. but then lighter in the open areas, you could almost bet it was cleaned. Buying ungraded coins and having them graded is nearly always a crapshoot. You are better off just buying the coin already graded. That way there is less drama and more enjoyment. 😃
refers to either the smoothing of a fields to remove scratches, corrosion and other forms of damage or to the restoration of lost details through use of a graver or knife. When a single side of the is affected, the terms OBV and REV are used.
The standing liberty with "graffiti" is still beautiful though. I would buy it for $40 sure. BTW a quick search finds a 1895 Morgan graded by PCGS as Proof/Graffiti/VF detail that was sold for $28,500.
Thats bc it's a proof nerd
@@russellb2464 The point is graffiti isnt the end of the world, dummy. And btw a proof doesnt always make iit significantly more valuable.
@@brumels1570 a proof morgan doesnt make it significantly more expensive than a business strike? Is that what you're saying?
@@brumels1570 details coins for any reason are worth half or less a straight graded coin. Your statements make it pretty apparent that you don't know much about the hobby. Q David Bowers has a book called the guide to morgan silver dollars or something to that effect. I recommend it highly.
Love me some standings & barbers, nice coins
I really enjoyed this video and the part 1 as well. I’m very new to coin collecting and my “collection “ is very modest with about 200 coins of which only a few are in pristine condition and none are graded. But I’ve had such a blast learning about the coins, their origins and designers. Not to mention trying to figure out their ballpark values and determining their rarity. PCGS has a few great mobile apps that have done a lot to educate me and I’m grateful. But when I checked into the prices they charge for grading I realized this would probably take a lot of the fun out of the hobby for me. Chasing the super high grade coins is a quick way to spend way more money than most of us have to play with and when you think you may have something special and it turns out to have some issue or another like you encountered the fun that one once had turns negative. I have a 1876-s trade dollar that I love dearly. It’s probably one of my more valuable coins. I’ve thought about having it graded but it would no doubt score very low because it’s been around, like most coins, not sitting in someone’s collection. Had it been in a collection I probably could never have afforded it. I guess it is because people collect for different reasons and I’m having a hard time understanding how some collectors who, for example, only buy graded coins are able to really enjoy this hobby. But like I said, I’m new to this and can’t imagine doing it if it wasn’t so much fun with little risk or expense. Happy hunting!
Indian head looked awesome! I bet that was MS65+
That old half is tooled on wings , you were right . I think coins are priced too high for many
Billy, you got hosed on the 1899 Indian Head penny! For sure! US!
No. That coin looked screwed with
PCGS has wild variances in grading standards. Its amazing to me that they are still accepted as the "leaders" in this space. They must be hiring in-experienced minimum-wage graders
Do you know of better grading options? I'm also not sure how to get an official value on the ones I have that aren't great condition, but have a unique error I haven't seen elsewhere
@@ladyfrederick788 unfortunately PCGS is your best bet. Unless you are in Canada, in which case ICCS is known to be more consistent, albeit more strict. Feel free to reach out via PM with any questions regarding your coins!
Minimum wage graders?
They advertise those jobs for low six figures all the time.
6:12 did Lincoln put on a headdress lol. The questionable color thing is pretty stupid. It's just old toning. PCGS needs to lay off with the questionable color thing. I do see why all the Lincoln cents Graded how they did though.
First thing I said when you pulled out your coin from Grandpa was cleaned
BTW... I never did hear back from Liberty Coin in California on the cleaned and damaged coin I purchased from them.
billyazprospector And you probably never will. It's a mine field out there. A bit like the stock market but not quite as treacherous.
I think “tooled” means that someone went over with a blade to sharpen the edges
I would love to own @ couple of the old coins. The true value is within its history! Especially your Grandfathers beautiful coin.
not sure about pcgs but ngc has an option where you can send it back for regarding if you don't agree with their grade
Don't see the "tooled"as is mentioned on the 1830,
But again, and I said it before,
I'm apprehensive about sending anything to NGC or PCGS for grading anymore...
I'll keep a lot of stuff RAW rather than in a PCGS/NGC holder for fear of... detail grading!
You might consider a crack out of some of those that didn't straight grade with PCGS and submit them to ANACS...
See what they call it.
Also, on the topic of "Genuine coins" that 1830, I would try to sell it for at least 75% of what the value would be for a number of grade vf. In my case, I do keep a lot of my "Genuine" coins for myself.
THANK YOU FOR SHARING
Why did you use PCGS rather than NGC? Just curious as I'm new to collecting. Was it because you got a VERY cool plastic slab box? (just kidding on that one but I wish NGC had the same instead of cardboard).
I just happen to have certificates to have some coins graded... I have a recent video that shows sending off to NGC, go check that out...
Tnx 4 sharing
How much did it cost for the grading of all the coins and how long did it take to get them back?
It’s about $40 per coin after shipping and can take about 30days
hmmm... so scratches are graffiti or tool marks?? hmmm... PCGS??? thanks for sharing great stuff!
Say I have a question do these grading companies switch your coins and they keep your coin or what
Wow, think that would detour me some bit, to send in coins to be graded... thanks for sharing ... I have a 1858 flying eagle one cent and a 1834 25C. that I'd like to get authenticated too... but I'm still shying away from getting them slabbed. May just go thru ANACS?
very enjoyable to watch each coin then revealing the grade!! Pretty good. happy hunting!
tooled can be a few things but essentially taking a tool and scribing or otherwise altering the coin in some way with a tool...punching a hole in it., filing the edges etc..
You paid $10 for the Morgen coin? Which year was that? They are selling for $30 online now!
Just asking sir, having 18 steps at the penny can be valuable ?
Tough break man.
Tooled means cleaned, the shiny parts of the "busty half dollar on both sides say tooled or polished or cleaned.
I would send that Indian head penny back bro that shit looks so nice to me.. they all look really nice Bro man thanks for the video 👍 👍 👍 love it
I've returned to this after some months to look at the coins again. How is the 1950-S a 64, while the 1936 is a 63? I mean, the '36 has a few small hits (more like tiny hits, really) but the strike and luster are great. I've seen MS66s that look worse than that so-called MS63 1936 Lincoln.
oh and btw you wanted a rough estimate on the 1830 small o half dollar well at $126 in VF it would roughly sell for $50
Really enjoyed this. Thanks.
Nice Video
Hey bud as far as that bust half you showed as tooled, here goes, as far as I know the bust halves have a huge number of types, two of the coins I have just like are called the Overton bust half, there is a bend in the coin produced at the time by hammering the coins over a slab of wood why I don't know I'm sure I don't have the whole story, also there should be some engraving on the side of the coin that says the value of the coin, 50 cents, there may be more I don't have the ability to pull my coins out to look, I think the bend and or the engraving as you can't really see it in the slab will be the remark about tooling, hope this helps check the red book and you will see there are an abundance of the coins in their specific types, if you haven't seen them before it's mind-boggling to follow the info good luck!
Love that1921 quarter!!! I just bought one too. I think its F15. Im sending it in along with some others. I was hoping you might share howmuch it cost to grade this batch. I have been buying up 05 micro O dimes and know i have damaged/cleaned ones. But I want slabs. Last time i used PCGS cleaned coins came back body bagged w no grade or genuine lable. They just took themoney and sent coins back that they deemed cleaned in a bag. What did you pay and what did you have to do to insure slabs? I paid 285 for my 21 Standing Lib. Hope i get F and no issues. All coins have been cleaned. Its just to what degree and how abrasive. The one you got certainly looked original. But im sure they magnify and can see theswipe marks.
interesting that they put them into the body bags, those are just to be used for not genuine or counterfeit coins
You can get electronica one of the 125 X I mean showing on your script computer screen
Go to ANA's Summer seminar in July and take coin grading part1. Then next summer take part2 ,and then part 3. Going to cost you a couple thousand each year, but youll never buy a cleaned coin ever again.
I agree with you on the pennies. I won't buy an unslabbed coin. I would rather buy one high quality coin than 10 xf ones.
You should self grade your coins expecting 2 less so if you think you got a ms67 tell yourself its ms65, get a 10-20x magnify glass, check for any scrub marks or lack luster coins that may have been cleaned. Dont be afraid to ask for better detailed pictures before buying. Always keep expectation low so youll be a lot happier when it gets a grade betyer then you expect haha. Im new and im watching videos on grading coins before i decide to send it in.
What is the purpose of grading a coin if it costs you more to have it graded then you get if you sell it? Since you have to factor in the cost you bought it for.
Lessons learned, NOT worth it and don't risk it!
Cleaned coins most of the time you need to look in the details of the coin if a silver coin is dull or is shiny and dull or sometimes even very shiny them are tell tell signs
May I suggest the book 'Photograde" extremely helpful as you are learning and beyond (probably the best grading reference book you could buy!). Remember ,"buy the book first, then the coin".
Agreed! I will say, even for experienced numismatists telling the difference between a MS 64-66 can be difficult.
They also make an app. That’s what I use. The book is good too, offers more examples I think
Antonius Britannia Not really
On that 1830 coin, it looks like all the fields were rubbed (tooled) with something. They're lighter than surrounding metal. That's my assessment.
Thanks for the feedback!
16:02 Tooled- Taking jewel or die cutting tools to smooth out surfaces or enhance details. Questionable color- The color of the coin is not a natural hue for the composition , oft times due to improper storage at some point.
Tooled means someone has touched up the details by slightly re engraving, or 'tooling' them as to enhance them a bit, not that uncommon on those bust coins.
Nice I love the standing liberties too... just started my channel i'm working on my filming skills hehe
Your 1830 , 50 cents piece was tooled and it is quite obvious on reverse. It's mean somebody have smoothed the surface around the eagle to remove tiny hairlines or maybe some ugly spots. You can see around the wings line where smoothing tool couldn't reach right to the wing and created like line around.
1963921 thank you for your reply!!
I think the shield was tooled on the 1838 Half dollar...too clean for the reset of the coin
What tier are you using $60 express $150 walk through or what?
Hi, I used my free ones with my platinum subscription and the. Paid the rest as normal like $32 avg per coin.
Tooling is engraving or smoothing a coin attempting to add or change details, or remove corrosion or damage, in a way that goes beyond simple cleaning
Riven Wood I’m undecided on how far I want to go in collecting coins. Would you recommend any good references that explain coin collecting terms? Thanks