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Freaking Loven this...Paul already said that Chani will come around. It will cause Chani, her life. Lisan al Gaib knows. It's like the two Goats...First one: What do you think of eating this film? The Second one: Not nearly as good as the book.
Honestly girl, it's giving the same level of stupidity as people who hate on actors because of the character they portrayed, like in GOT and Laura Bailey who just did the voice for Abby in The Last Of Us Part 2.
I love your videos, and I have been following you since discovering your channel. As your popularity grows, you may encounter more trolls but also become a more prominent figure in the Dune Universe community. Personally, I’d like to see you embrace all Dune fans a bit more and avoid overtly disregarding Brian’s novels, as some of us enjoy them and consider them valuable content that enhances our appreciation for Frank’s Universe. This is a community rather than a hierarchy and I do believe Brian’s continued efforts have led us to where we are today; big budget movies, TV series and a younger fan base that can carry this on for decades. His writing style is simplistic, and he takes some liberties, but its popular with young folks and draws people in. Anyway, people are always meaner online, so that is something you shouldn't even pay attention to. I still appreciate your videos even if I feel you cater towards a certain group within the community.
sorry, @banzai431 but you don't actually have a right on the internet. Freedom of Speech only protects you from the government. private organizations can limit speech on their websites. That said, I don't believe TH-cam is going punish someone for criticizing a movie. If elaine was being attacked on Twitter, just gonna say it....Twitter is a cesspool now only correct action there is to delete your account. Sorry, but it really pisses me off to see so many people now not understand how the 1st amendment works.
She has the right, Yes, but these people have had the power to take down Whole Organizations by spreading misinformation. and the Sad thing is, They get their way Every time. Because they speak with a Louder voice and twist things to make others look bad to the casual person who doesn't know any better. I'm not saying that she should censor herself, but if you want to play the 'Internet Game' you have to be Damn Sure you play Every Side if you want the success and popularity. or give up like I did.
Her snarling aggression and mocking opposition to Stilgar's beliefs take me out of part 2 every time. It's like First World problems injected into a harsh frontier culture.
To be fair, Paul is somewhat in opposition to Muadib. We get a head nod to Paul understanding what he's doing and the consequences it will have re his and Chani's relationship as realized in the movie. Perhaps Villeneuve will transfer the conflicts among Paul, Muadiba and Chani, take a different path from the books and bring things around. Hopefully we'll get some directors cut stuff, maybe another series or two after Prophecy and maybe even another film after Messiah to fill in or reform some of the gaps. It's certainly a different story by short and long measures in places, but we could get the same overall message by the end.
I had the same impression. I went to the cinema with a friend and he was fine with it , I wasnt. He tought it was more reasonable and interesting, the way Chani was in the movie, after Paul's move to marry Irulana. I tought it changed the spirit of the books where Chani and Paul were a team in love, and it wasnt more interesting at all. Also i had a feeling it was done to appease a bit "modern audience" , that there is a strong, rebelling woman.
@@firestarter000001 Interesting, I didn't really get the impression that was Chani's motivation, more that she disliked what he would become. It didn't matter, Paul's path wasn't random as soon as he made the decision to use the seeds sown by the witches; a slippery slope indeed, and I thought more the motivation for her disdain. Paul had the same disdain after all, but believed he saw a necessity, Chani couldn't see that necessity, as much because she knew he would no longer be himself.
And you, the rest of the (white) Dune fans and Elaine/Nerd Cookies don't get that people are not tolerant of what they see as an attack on an actress of color (remember what happened to Leslie Jones? That's why they're angry, and they don't want a repeat of it.) Talk to them and ask them why they're angry about this.
@@Neville60001 It doesn't matter, because their anger is based on willful ignorance. If someone says something that upsets you, first consider that you may have misunderstood, before making retaliatory comments.
@@Neville60001 Way to illustrate your own bigotry by trying to project it onto others just talking about the content of the show! Well, guess what? Skin color actually had NOTHING whatsoever to do with OP's point. Wow, you guys are getting downright delusional. Please, stop being such a race baiter, dude!! It is only a movie.
Hey Nerd Cookie, Always Remember actors bring characters to life and sometimes they dont. Sci-Fi's Chani was Fremen Royalty. Zendayas version just fell flat.
You're bulletproof. Ignore them. Agree with your likes and critiques because, like you, I know the source material well. Denis loves Dune and he has creative license, so he gets a big break, but that doesn't mean we can't wish other choices were made.
I think the problem with stans is that they came for THE ACTOR/ACTRESS and don't know where this STORY is going. Those of us who have read the stories and maybe watched the other adaptations know where the story is going. We know what is needed going from the final scene of Dune 2 to Messiah, they don't unless they take the time to read the books. Your arguments are logical because you know the source material. I don't always agree, but your insight always gives me something to think about.
Send them my way Elaine. I’ll deal with the Zendaya simps by simply and succinctly explaining to them that she’s just not a very good actress and they’re gonna need to learn to cope
Zendaya is a competent (not great) actress. I had no problems with how she played Chani but respect the mileage others have on her portrayal may vary. (Note to the Stans, see this is what is called polite disagreement).
I’ll ad my voice to those saying i like Zander’s, I even appreciate her in this role. To this point i’ve been casting my issues at The directors vision and resulting direction. Chani was rewritten as a foil for paul, and Zendaya did what the director wanted.
Remember, empty barrels make the most noise. Don't pay any mind to these people who clearly can't distinguish the actor from character. My only problem with this Dune was Zendaya's portrayal of Chani. You are spot on. Keep doing you, that's why you have an awesome fan base!
IMO, she acted the role well, and had the right "look", but the scritwriter turned the character into "that's NOT Chani". P.S. That's not the actress, or the director's failing - it's the script writer's.
I am tired of these 'fake fans' that's the intersectionality of all the fandoms... these people want to associate the actor with the character and there is no day light between the two. Any criticism is seen as a personal attack and they are quick to label people with 'phobe' or 'ism'.
I haven't seen the film but that sounds like a waste of her talent. reminds me of when I go to a film to see Edris Elba or Carrie Anne Moss and he's 5 min in it and doesn't do anything. I've been celebrity catfished.
@@HisameArtwork that's not true, she plays ok her role in the movie, it is just stupid that movie chani is basically not the same as in the books, it's kinda different person
past products dictate whether or not i consume future product. i dont need to complain, i just need to not give them any more money because they will squander it. that wasn't the case with dune. i like that they only did the bare minimum to throw the woke a bone to keep the dogs at bay and focused on telling the story. id have preferred no quarter, but that would have never made it through production at the time. i think after the election that will be a lot easier.
That all you see is the actress and her skin color is why Nerd Cookies is getting a lot of flak. Might want to get over it, and just accept her as Chani.
@@Neville60001 Are you going to cry foul after the next film when Chani dies in childbirth after being poisoned by Florence Pugh's character? Should they change the story just in case some fool thinks it's racist?
Social media is cancer and it attracts all manner of people including people who have WAY too much free time to do crap like this. Pay them zero attention. You didn't even have to create this response video. Your opinion and analysis is fine, if that gets them all riled up, so what? Let them sit in their basements and keyboard warrior as much as they want. Their attention span is that of a goldfish and when the next thing comes along, they will move on and forget about all of this. Just keep doing what you're doing. Great work!
A certain Vtuber by the name K9-kuro said that "Fandoms were the accumulation of the worst kinds of people" People like you disprove that statement, so I applaud you for standing up & promoting discussions (Yes I am complementing you) BTW, Zendaya was arguably the most insufferable part of the movies
There's a big difference between a 'fan' and a 'fanatic'. Fans give opinions and discuss. Fanatics attack any form of critique, taking it as a personal attack on them (they can choke on cookies, btw). (i hadn't heard of the 'STAN' term lol)
My understanding is "Stan" is slang that comes from the Eminem song about an obsessive-turned-dangerous fan. Considering that context, I think it's a little weird anyone would identify as one.
Its my fault I brought up Chani adaptation on that video sorry... I didn't like it and it isn't the actresses fault also why when you criticize someone of a different color your automatically racist There all multiple actors, actresses and roles portrayed in all movies that are not great its not racist its a choice we as fans can make were not talking about there skin we are are talking about the acting. You do an excellent job we are here and have your back we are your fans... 😀😀
Woke mind virus. Everyone and everything is racist, even if you like 'POC' or her performance otherwise,... nope... gotta kiss the ring or you're literally Hitler.
It's okay to disagree, you're absolutely right. Zendaya's version of Chani was, unfortunately, a pretty big weak point for the 2 Dune films so far. That could change in the next film, but it will require a lot of thought and work on the part of the writing team, Denis and Zendaya herself.
This is what I keep telling people. The thing that held Dune 2 back was how the Chani character was changed. She was the rock that Paul needed to be Muad Dhib and by changing that, being this angry, confusing character, it made Dune 2 lesser in my eyes. I thought the first Dune was better because of this.
I liked the movie, but this change was bad for me, the second one, as big, was Stilgar. Out of a strong , intelligent, wise leader of the poeple, who in the books didnt care so much about the religion, only about whats best for the tribe, they made a bit funny, a bit silly, supersticious simpleton.
@@Neville60001 LOL, because that's clearly not happening. Did you even bother listening to ANYTHING said? Zendaya's performance is perfectly serviceable, the problem is the portrayal choice, made nor by her, but by the director, who chose to drastically change his version of Chani away from the source material, and instead use her character to fulfill a totally different role than that which Frank Herbert intended. On one hand, hiding this accomplished something no prior film version accomplished: not only did he nake Chani more pivotal, and more desirable for an actress who wants a challenge... he made her the lens through wgich the audience can see that Paul isn't the hero. Bravo. But in the plot transition between Dune and Messiah, this undermines the relationship core that makes that plot even possible. Chani is syppsrd to be Paul's Lois Lane... the one person who understands all of Paul, accepts all of it and grounds him with real love instead of machinations. It's because of her that he leaves Irulsn childless and thus drives the entire plot against him in messiah. Its got nothing to so with some delusion you have thar no one likes actresses of color.
@@NerdCookies I became a patron early on and always attempt to support your work as much as possible. I enjoy your vids greatly and was/am shocked that there is at least one person who sees fandom and specific works as I do. I was not aware of the term, "Stans" and am glad to learn something new. LoL
I can definitely agree that Dune wasn’t her best work. I loved her in Challengers, I was honestly surprised by how good she was. It was my favorite performance of hers since euphoria.
Great channel! Don't worry at all about these critics or Stans. You do a great job and I like your takes and opinions. That's the whole idea of the site and your work. You shouldn't even had to do this, but I respect that you did. Keep your head up and continue to provide excellent content. Thank you.
I guarantee these are the same people who were livid because Zendaya didn’t have much screen time in the first movie which is asinine. I cannot stand what they did to Chani- I don’t even know how they will resolve the choices her character makes in the later books. Sometimes I think there are too many people with room temperature IQ who lurk, ready to pounce on anything they think is an affront to their sensibilities. You did a great job. Ignore them. ❤❤
Analyzing a subject critically is part of engaging with the material. Whether I agree with the analysis or not, its poor form to attack the source. Having a debate around the subject should be respectful process. You can not agree with someone, but its neat to see a different viewpoint, sometimes it even opens your eyes to a new way to see the material. Keep doing what you are doing!
I agree with your points about the way the latest films ignored the Guild and didn't explain the relationship between the spice and the sandworms - If they're following the timeline of the novels, the next film will be set twelve years after the events of the the second film so I guess we'll have to wait and see. They'll really need to explain the Guild, though, and bring Paul & Chani back together if they're going to adapt the plot of Dune Messiah as it was written in the original novel. They might do something entirely different, but I agree that everyone has a right to state their opinion.
I felt the same way about the changes to her character. I wondered how others felt about it. I was happy to see that others bothered by the changes. It is a big change from the book and certainly could impact future films. I am unfortunately not surprised that people were bothered by what you said. People so often forget that we can have different thoughts and ideas. I feel like often today people would rather find a reason to be bothered than taking the time to understand and allow thoughts or opinions different from their own. In my opinion, you said nothing wrong. It is okay that others do not. Thank you for your videos.
It just makes so little sense for a Fremen elite like her and his lover to be the most critical of Paul. And this change from the book serves no purpose. We had an entire first movie to show us how Paul was groomed into being this special Leader, there is no reason for Chani to complain about false prophet bullshit, we literally saw how he was groomed and how the people behind his scenes orchestrated the situation for him to benefit.
We all have a right to our opinions, and you've never been disrespectful to actors in your opinions. Thank you for giving your perspective and questioning how DV is going to resolve the Paul Chani problem in Dune Messiah. There are many of us fans of Dune wondering the same thing. When DV changed Kynes from male to female he kept the character together and we're hoping he does as well resolving this issue.
You don't owe Stans *anything,* acknowledgement least of all. Ignore them. Let them cry into their soy milk. Alone. Let them. You never have to explain your preferences or tailor your perspectives for anyone.
As much as I love Christopher Walkin, him being cast as the emporer was the lowest part of the two movies for me. It's not the Emporer there. It's Christopher Walkin there. However, that low point was immediately superceded by Chani getting up and walking out of the room, then her being the last thing we see at the end of the second movie. HORRIBLE choices in an otherwise note-perfect execution.
I also love Christopher Walkin but it felt like the character lacked the commanding presence that I know the actor is capable of. Not sure if it was a directorial choice, but the emperor felt feeble and weak to me.
I kinda felt that him appearing weaker was a good choice. And I personally felt his performance was good as he expresses such anger and spitefulness every time he talks
@@DurpyKraken Absolutely! He's a master of his craft. Unfortunately, I'm a huge fan of Kevin Pollack and others that can nail his voice and then satorize his manorisms. Thus, it's spoiled for me :)
You did a wonderful rebuttal. The facts speak for themselves. You provided clear evidence in a respectful manner. I rather enjoy your perspectives - so it’s heartning to know you will continue to provide commentary for us nerdy fans. Salute!
You’re my favorite TH-camr who talks about Dune. I look forward to your videos your legit the only sub I have notifications on for so keep doing your thing 🙏🏾
Completely agree with everything you’ve said & you’re totally right about the Paul/Chani relationship. Have been a massive fan of everything Dune related (well Frank Herbert Dune, haven’t read anything Brian yet) since I first read it back in mid-80’s.
It's a stupid attack, Zendaya got a bad role. It's not an indictment of her acting. it's an indictment of Denis if anything. Why did he cut this out other than time?
I agree on your gripes about the adaptations, as much as there are a number of things that I love out of Villeneuve's adaptation. That Thufur was cut out of Part Two entirely, that dialogue between Paul and the Reverend Mother that was featured in the trailer for Part One got cut out, that they cut out the Banquet scene, that Piter and Yueh were barely visible as characters...so much of this version was robbed of its texture to make for a slick visual package. And leaving out the ecology of Arrakis, and the origins of the Spice! This movie had a chance to illustrate how Paul had the power to destroy spice production forever, but they dumbed it down to nuking the spice plains. That was so disappointing.
From one Dune fan to another, i have really appreciated your comments on the DV adaptations. So many of my friends who have never read the novels were so impressed by the movies and could not understand my disappointments with them. I've taken a lot of comfort in knowing that other fans of the series feel the same way i do and see the same flaws i see. Thanks for persevering through the bs. Cheers!
I know that it is hard when you are passionate about something but my advise would be: ignore them and don't engage because that is the worst that can happen to these people - no reaction at all 😉
Unfortunately, these days, too many can't divorce reality and fantasy. Likely it was thumb nail is what caught their attention and didn't bother delving into your analysis. I hope you never stop talking about the story, the films, the books, and the future. Love your work!
You did a good job with this video! I totally know what you mean with the random attacks from people who did not even look what you said. Everyone gets them in life now. Your doing great keep going! :D
I have problems with the writing concerning Chani and I still know that most of the Dune fandom who don't like the casting don't really think the writing is the problem,they think the actress is the problem and her only and that's my issues with this whole fandom tbh
I'm sick of these people who only look at the headline and attack. If they watched the video they'd see how great a TH-camr Elaine is and they'd subscribe to her channel because she does great content.
You were spot on with your discussions about the new Dune films. Chani always knew that Paul loved her first and most, and that his marriage to the princess was purely political in the books; there was no love there, only for Chani. Zendaya's portrayal made it seem that Paul had betrayed her, and that is something that Villeneuve is going to have to figure out and work around. You called it. Your channel is great because you don't beat people over the head with your opinions and claim your in the right and everybody else is wrong. You do you. If people have issues with your opinions, then they don't know what an opinion is.
Are they having a laugh with OUR Elaine????🤬🤬🤬 She's been reviewing and breaking down Dune for years well as other sci-fi but her forte is Dune. She gave am accurate and opinionated view of D.V. Dune that we all agreed on. I also think Zendaya was one of the biggest let downs with these Dune films. She was wooden had no more scope than she did in Spiderman. Timothee, Rebecca even bloody Jason Mamoa stepper uo his range for his part. Fk them!!! We love you Nerd Cookies. Long live the fighters!! ⚔✊🏾⚔
You have nothing to justify or apologize for, Elaine. You are thoughtful, knowledgeable and engaging, and your channel is a great forum for discussion. There aren't many of those out there that do what yours does, so please...ignore the hysterics and keep doing what you're doing.
I listened to the video you are referring to. You talked about their Thier relationship and how the plot progresses. No big deal, Hollywood can suck it and get over themselves
Appreciate you take some time to review your critiques. Often there may be valid points ... In this particular case, you are pointing out differences and the issues that arise.. And what you like and don't like.. And on the like and don't likes, it's ok to have another opinion. Should not become a personal attack though... Unfortunately, as you and your channel become more popular. .. expect more personal criticism. Most all of us see you as reasonable, intelligent, and just a huge fan .. Keep up the good content !
I really like your videos. Some people just like to complain for the sake of complaining. Like you said, there is no logic behind it. Just ignore them. Your videos never criticize Zendaya as an actress. You just make points between the difference of the movie and the book.
I just found your channel. I'm a complete normie to Dune, and I loved the first Villanueve movie. However, I was infuriated with part 2. I really enjoyed the first 2 parts of it even though I had some issues. They were minor issues I could ignore. THEN, the 3rd act happened, and I hated everything to do with Chani and her actions. I immediately went to a friend who is well-versed in the lore and asked him to tell me how the books happen, and the changes to her character infuriated me even more. It makes me so sad what they did to her. I know I don't really have a right as a normie to be THAT angry, but I am either way. 😮💨 Sorry they are attacking you. I'm gonna go back and watch your lore videos now though!
Just rewatched Dune Pt2 after seeing your video which i agreed with 100% And YES you were spot on. The changes in her stand out way too much in comparison to the original story... This is definitely see more Zendaya in it than Chani. The strong adversarial Modern Hollywood empowered nature really didn't make sense
I had wondered if anyone else thought the way I did. I’ve been a fan of Dune all my life. In fact, the book was published the same year I was born. I agree. After reading the book over a dozen times, I got to a certain spot where nothing was a literary surprise, so I started paying attention to the other things in the books. One of the biggest things was, because you often “hear” the mental voice of one or more characters, it offers their unvarnished thoughts. In those moments (and there were even more of those than I thought) you really get a better sense of the absolute love that Paul and Chani have for one another. It’s total and in ways, all consuming. A love I had with my late wife. And the new movies totally get it wrong. I think in every scene in the movie where Chani is very angry with Paul, the exact opposite sentiment was being reflected in the book. Don’t get me wrong though, there were parts of this movie tinkled me. Just the sheer grandeur of the spice stores in Arrakeen….and so many others. And it wasn’t because the acting was bad. They got a magnificent cast. But….they changed a lot. I could go on but I’m really not busting on the movies. But I have to be honest that some of my favorite “Dune” moments are in the original TV mini-series. When Chani and Paul finally hug and voice the things they lost…makes me cry. I know I’m an old sentimental fool but there it is…..
Dont apologize, there is no need to. What you do is just stating an opinion. What I get of your channell is that it makes me think about my ideas, my perception of Dune and what others think of it. That stimulates the imagination, something I am convinced any form of SF is all about. If I have good, solid arguments to agree or not agree with you, I tell them in the comments. And there people again can agree or disagree again. You get a discussion, communication about a project we all love so much
Keep speaking your truth! Love your content and analysis of the content and its relativity to the source material and the world around us! Characters and actors are not the same and I applaud your consistent expression of your thoughts and opinions. Please don’t stop!
Oh, some people are just silly. I read the book more than a couple of times and have seen all other movie versions, and yes, I agree with you. The Chani story in the latest movie really is different. I noticed that too, nothing wrong with that.
I remember walking out of dune part 2 going...how is she going to die in childbirth if she walks away? In the books she understood that Paul was a bit part of the political system
Everyone is welcome to their own *constructive* opinions. But I agree with you, the attacking is silly. I can understand why people don't like deviations from the source, but as you mention, he choose to focus on the central themes of Dune. Chani in the books is barely a character imo. Their love story is a wave of a hand with the time jump. I think they did her well in the movies. Personally, I'm looking forward to Messiah to see how they reconcile their relationship. I am a huge Dune book nerd as well. I think a lot of things left out like the spacing guild, changing ecology, and mentats can be used in Messiah to expand the Dune universe for the non-book reader. We have Edric for the spacing guild, Hayt for Mentats. Messiah as a stand alone is not as exciting as Dune, I hope these things will be expanded on by DV to bring out a richer movie.
Saying that you think an actor or actress is miscast is not an attack on that performer or their fans. No single performer is perfect for every conceivable role, and any 'blame' falls on the person who made the bad casting choice. Equally, saying that the Chani character was changed in the movie script in a manner that undermines the functioning of the Dune story is more a criticism of the intention of the writers of the Dune movies to try to rewrite Herbert's work than it is a criticism of the actress who just says what she is told to say (even if she does sometimes do herself no favours by coming across as unlikeable, arrogant and conceited in the role). Unfortunately, the more hardcore of fan groups (especially the depressing phenomenon of so called 'stans' or 'stalker fans' that seek to raise creepy and wildly excessive obsessiveness to an artform) tend to be strangers to the concepts or reason and acting in good faith. They can't see beyond the end of the petty celebrity obsession that they have allowed to entirely define their whole existence, and will react with ludicrous levels of disproportionate vitriol toward anyone who criticises their idol for any reason, no matter how tangential, mild and/or well justified that criticism may be.
As to Momoa playing Idaho, that's just wrong on so many levels. Have any of Momoas' fans actually picked up a book, any book, excluding comics, let alone Frank Herbert's Epic Masterpiece, Dune?, read Herbert's own words, out loud, when he describes Idaho's appearance... I double dog dare you to find any similarity other than two arms, two legs, a head... Seriously, Momoa could've played Halleck, if the audience was color blind... The oversized oaf fits that suit...it could be said it was custom tailored to fit his description even...
A perfect example of a point where we can disagree and get along! I thought the role of Mamoa's Duncan in part one was epic! To your point, I am a little concerned about his ability to pull off what comes next though...
I was glad for your video, I did not like the changes to the story for chani or Alia. so it was nice to hear a different take on the film rather then “it was perfect!” To clarify loved the dune movies
Well said. I also believe the first Dune movie left out something essential: the betrayal plot. Without it, the film lacks suspense and feels somewhat lifeless. This is one of the key elements that drives the narrative in the first part of the book.
Chani was warped into a character who felt entirely out-of-place among the Fremen she supposedly grew up with. She felt more like a blank slate for a self-insert, particularly with her eschewing her culture's religious beliefs with a throw-away line about "Northern Fremen". Which itself was never developed or meaningfully fleshed out - the only "Northern Fremen" you only see Chani's girl gaggle. These choices were pretty strange, when they removed (or at least never mentioned) that Liet Kynes was Chani's parent, an off-worlder who would have been a much more organic explanation for Chani's dissonance with the rest of Fremen culture in a way that would have been much less disruptive to the story being adapted.
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/n.gif)
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Freaking Loven this...Paul already said that Chani will come around. It will cause Chani, her life. Lisan al Gaib knows.
It's like the two Goats...First one: What do you think of eating this film? The Second one: Not nearly as good as the book.
Honestly girl, it's giving the same level of stupidity as people who hate on actors because of the character they portrayed, like in GOT and Laura Bailey who just did the voice for Abby in The Last Of Us Part 2.
People really need to grow up. We all have differences of opinion but as adults we understand that.
I feel for those critics spouses
I see where you're going with that (thumbs up)
I love your videos, and I have been following you since discovering your channel. As your popularity grows, you may encounter more trolls but also become a more prominent figure in the Dune Universe community. Personally, I’d like to see you embrace all Dune fans a bit more and avoid overtly disregarding Brian’s novels, as some of us enjoy them and consider them valuable content that enhances our appreciation for Frank’s Universe. This is a community rather than a hierarchy and I do believe Brian’s continued efforts have led us to where we are today; big budget movies, TV series and a younger fan base that can carry this on for decades. His writing style is simplistic, and he takes some liberties, but its popular with young folks and draws people in.
Anyway, people are always meaner online, so that is something you shouldn't even pay attention to. I still appreciate your videos even if I feel you cater towards a certain group within the community.
Pay them no mind Elaine. You have the right to speak your opinions and speculations.
As do they. Some people are just to sensitive and have to post their displeasure, or make an entire video explaining themselves for no reason.
@@quor2243 clearly you didn't watch this video.
Especially when they resort to calling you reecist for not agreeing with their opinion.
sorry, @banzai431 but you don't actually have a right on the internet. Freedom of Speech only protects you from the government. private organizations can limit speech on their websites. That said, I don't believe TH-cam is going punish someone for criticizing a movie. If elaine was being attacked on Twitter, just gonna say it....Twitter is a cesspool now only correct action there is to delete your account. Sorry, but it really pisses me off to see so many people now not understand how the 1st amendment works.
She has the right, Yes, but these people have had the power to take down Whole Organizations by spreading misinformation.
and the Sad thing is, They get their way Every time. Because they speak with a Louder voice and twist things to make others look bad to the casual person who doesn't know any better.
I'm not saying that she should censor herself, but if you want to play the 'Internet Game' you have to be Damn Sure you play Every Side if you want the success and popularity.
or give up like I did.
The changes to Chani set her in opposition to Paul. It's stupid.
Her snarling aggression and mocking opposition to Stilgar's beliefs take me out of part 2 every time. It's like First World problems injected into a harsh frontier culture.
To be fair, Paul is somewhat in opposition to Muadib. We get a head nod to Paul understanding what he's doing and the consequences it will have re his and Chani's relationship as realized in the movie. Perhaps Villeneuve will transfer the conflicts among Paul, Muadiba and Chani, take a different path from the books and bring things around. Hopefully we'll get some directors cut stuff, maybe another series or two after Prophecy and maybe even another film after Messiah to fill in or reform some of the gaps. It's certainly a different story by short and long measures in places, but we could get the same overall message by the end.
I had the same impression. I went to the cinema with a friend and he was fine with it , I wasnt. He tought it was more reasonable and interesting, the way Chani was in the movie, after Paul's move to marry Irulana. I tought it changed the spirit of the books where Chani and Paul were a team in love, and it wasnt more interesting at all. Also i had a feeling it was done to appease a bit "modern audience" , that there is a strong, rebelling woman.
@@soothsayer1964 That moment in the Movie ruined Dune Part 2 for me as well. I lost all interest after that
@@firestarter000001 Interesting, I didn't really get the impression that was Chani's motivation, more that she disliked what he would become. It didn't matter, Paul's path wasn't random as soon as he made the decision to use the seeds sown by the witches; a slippery slope indeed, and I thought more the motivation for her disdain. Paul had the same disdain after all, but believed he saw a necessity, Chani couldn't see that necessity, as much because she knew he would no longer be himself.
You were spot on with your opinion of Chani. These Chani simps simply don’t understand how opinions work and shouldn’t be taken seriously.👍
And you, the rest of the (white) Dune fans and Elaine/Nerd Cookies don't get that people are not tolerant of what they see as an attack on an actress of color (remember what happened to Leslie Jones? That's why they're angry, and they don't want a repeat of it.) Talk to them and ask them why they're angry about this.
@@Neville60001 It doesn't matter, because their anger is based on willful ignorance. If someone says something that upsets you, first consider that you may have misunderstood, before making retaliatory comments.
@@Neville60001 Way to illustrate your own bigotry by trying to project it onto others just talking about the content of the show! Well, guess what? Skin color actually had NOTHING whatsoever to do with OP's point. Wow, you guys are getting downright delusional.
Please, stop being such a race baiter, dude!! It is only a movie.
Keep doing you. I love your channel and the dune books.
Hey Nerd Cookie, Always Remember actors bring characters to life and sometimes they dont. Sci-Fi's Chani was Fremen Royalty. Zendayas version just fell flat.
"My opinions don't have an expiration date" - beautifully put. And don't ever let them to shut you down.
You're bulletproof. Ignore them. Agree with your likes and critiques because, like you, I know the source material well. Denis loves Dune and he has creative license, so he gets a big break, but that doesn't mean we can't wish other choices were made.
Well put!
I think the problem with stans is that they came for THE ACTOR/ACTRESS and don't know where this STORY is going. Those of us who have read the stories and maybe watched the other adaptations know where the story is going. We know what is needed going from the final scene of Dune 2 to Messiah, they don't unless they take the time to read the books. Your arguments are logical because you know the source material. I don't always agree, but your insight always gives me something to think about.
You have some of the most even-handed, polite critiques of modern media that I have seen in the net. Please continue what you are doing.
Bedouin saying, "The dogs bark; our caravan moves on."
Keep up your excellent work.
Send them my way Elaine. I’ll deal with the Zendaya simps by simply and succinctly explaining to them that she’s just not a very good actress and they’re gonna need to learn to cope
Zendaya simps are just mad they're still stuck in the closet but can't admit it.
Zendaya is a competent (not great) actress. I had no problems with how she played Chani but respect the mileage others have on her portrayal may vary. (Note to the Stans, see this is what is called polite disagreement).
Facts my friend!!!
I think she’s an amazing actress, I just don’t think this role was for her. I saw Challengers and she absolutely killed it in that.
I’ll ad my voice to those saying i like Zander’s, I even appreciate her in this role. To this point i’ve been casting my issues at The directors vision and resulting direction. Chani was rewritten as a foil for paul, and Zendaya did what the director wanted.
Children will be children, even adult children.
Can we be Children of Dune? 😂😂
@@MrJoshDoty 🤣
toxic positivity is the only acceptable opinion for some people
Elaine always remember
"Never feed the trolls, It's always after midnight"
G.K Diaz
brilliantly said!
@Zed-fq3lj thank you so much🙏🏾
Zendaya has a penis.
Remember, empty barrels make the most noise. Don't pay any mind to these people who clearly can't distinguish the actor from character.
My only problem with this Dune was Zendaya's portrayal of Chani.
You are spot on.
Keep doing you, that's why you have an awesome fan base!
IMO, she acted the role well, and had the right "look", but the scritwriter turned the character into "that's NOT Chani".
P.S. That's not the actress, or the director's failing - it's the script writer's.
I am tired of these 'fake fans' that's the intersectionality of all the fandoms... these people want to associate the actor with the character and there is no day light between the two. Any criticism is seen as a personal attack and they are quick to label people with 'phobe' or 'ism'.
Here's a criticism they won't like, Zendaya spent the entire movie frowning like a angry little boy.
I haven't seen the film but that sounds like a waste of her talent.
reminds me of when I go to a film to see Edris Elba or Carrie Anne Moss and he's 5 min in it and doesn't do anything. I've been celebrity catfished.
Why does it have to be an angry little boy? Lol…nvm😬
She played the part she was given, and she did it very well.
@@HisameArtwork that's not true, she plays ok her role in the movie, it is just stupid that movie chani is basically not the same as in the books, it's kinda different person
Not cool.
translation: be thankful for ANY content,consume product,and be silent 🤫
YAS GOOOOOD! Good little conformist!
past products dictate whether or not i consume future product. i dont need to complain, i just need to not give them any more money because they will squander it.
that wasn't the case with dune. i like that they only did the bare minimum to throw the woke a bone to keep the dogs at bay and focused on telling the story. id have preferred no quarter, but that would have never made it through production at the time. i think after the election that will be a lot easier.
I don't see Chani... I only see Zendaya. This from a guy who has reread the series every year since 1986
So true bad casting choice
That all you see is the actress and her skin color is why Nerd Cookies is getting a lot of flak. Might want to get over it, and just accept her as Chani.
@poppabearscave, no need to mansplain 🙄😮💨😤😡
@@Neville60001 Are you going to cry foul after the next film when Chani dies in childbirth after being poisoned by Florence Pugh's character? Should they change the story just in case some fool thinks it's racist?
@@Neville60001 Zendaya is not a terribly good actress, is the problem.
Social media is cancer and it attracts all manner of people including people who have WAY too much free time to do crap like this. Pay them zero attention. You didn't even have to create this response video. Your opinion and analysis is fine, if that gets them all riled up, so what? Let them sit in their basements and keyboard warrior as much as they want. Their attention span is that of a goldfish and when the next thing comes along, they will move on and forget about all of this. Just keep doing what you're doing. Great work!
Tell them to shove it
A certain Vtuber by the name K9-kuro said that "Fandoms were the accumulation of the worst kinds of people"
People like you disprove that statement, so I applaud you for standing up & promoting discussions
(Yes I am complementing you)
BTW, Zendaya was arguably the most insufferable part of the movies
There's a big difference between a 'fan' and a 'fanatic'.
Fans give opinions and discuss.
Fanatics attack any form of critique, taking it as a personal attack on them (they can choke on cookies, btw).
(i hadn't heard of the 'STAN' term lol)
My understanding is "Stan" is slang that comes from the Eminem song about an obsessive-turned-dangerous fan. Considering that context, I think it's a little weird anyone would identify as one.
Oh no! Anyway...
🤣
The internet will always find something wrong.
Not internet
Please don't let the dingdongs get you down! Your channel my favorite way to learn more Dune lore and news. You rock!
I always enjoy your videos…big thumbs up.
🙏♥️
I enjoy your opinions and the value you bring to the community 😃
Its my fault I brought up Chani adaptation on that video sorry... I didn't like it and it isn't the actresses fault also why when you criticize someone of a different color your automatically racist There all multiple actors, actresses and roles portrayed in all movies that are not great its not racist its a choice we as fans can make were not talking about there skin we are are talking about the acting. You do an excellent job we are here and have your back we are your fans... 😀😀
Woke mind virus. Everyone and everything is racist, even if you like 'POC' or her performance otherwise,... nope... gotta kiss the ring or you're literally Hitler.
It's okay to disagree, you're absolutely right. Zendaya's version of Chani was, unfortunately, a pretty big weak point for the 2 Dune films so far. That could change in the next film, but it will require a lot of thought and work on the part of the writing team, Denis and Zendaya herself.
This is what I keep telling people. The thing that held Dune 2 back was how the Chani character was changed. She was the rock that Paul needed to be Muad Dhib and by changing that, being this angry, confusing character, it made Dune 2 lesser in my eyes. I thought the first Dune was better because of this.
I liked the movie, but this change was bad for me, the second one, as big, was Stilgar. Out of a strong , intelligent, wise leader of the poeple, who in the books didnt care so much about the religion, only about whats best for the tribe, they made a bit funny, a bit silly, supersticious simpleton.
Power to you for making this video! 👑 I relate so much after angry stans came for me after I reviewed The Penguin 😂
You can’t please everybody, especially when social media stans get mad because they have nothing else better to do.
You especially cannot please people dead set on being offended by everything.
How about people pissed off that actresses of color are being singled out for the flaw in a movie, as Zendaya Coleman has been?
@@Neville60001 LOL, because that's clearly not happening. Did you even bother listening to ANYTHING said?
Zendaya's performance is perfectly serviceable, the problem is the portrayal choice, made nor by her, but by the director, who chose to drastically change his version of Chani away from the source material, and instead use her character to fulfill a totally different role than that which Frank Herbert intended.
On one hand, hiding this accomplished something no prior film version accomplished: not only did he nake Chani more pivotal, and more desirable for an actress who wants a challenge... he made her the lens through wgich the audience can see that Paul isn't the hero.
Bravo.
But in the plot transition between Dune and Messiah, this undermines the relationship core that makes that plot even possible. Chani is syppsrd to be Paul's Lois Lane... the one person who understands all of Paul, accepts all of it and grounds him with real love instead of machinations. It's because of her that he leaves Irulsn childless and thus drives the entire plot against him in messiah.
Its got nothing to so with some delusion you have thar no one likes actresses of color.
I loved Dune 2. I don't hate Zendaya. Zendaya's version of Chani is the worst part of Dune 2. The sun rises tomorrow.
2:43 "Hatred disguised as criticism" - Elaine, she is outright calling you racist. This has nothing to do with Dune.
You Rock!
Thank you for the support!
@@NerdCookies I became a patron early on and always attempt to support your work as much as possible. I enjoy your vids greatly and was/am shocked that there is at least one person who sees fandom and specific works as I do. I was not aware of the term, "Stans" and am glad to learn something new. LoL
I can definitely agree that Dune wasn’t her best work. I loved her in Challengers, I was honestly surprised by how good she was. It was my favorite performance of hers since euphoria.
Keep up the good work. You haven't said anything out of line or disrespectful.
Great channel! Don't worry at all about these critics or Stans. You do a great job and I like your takes and opinions. That's the whole idea of the site and your work. You shouldn't even had to do this, but I respect that you did. Keep your head up and continue to provide excellent content. Thank you.
Appreciate the encouragement, it means a lot! 🙏
I guarantee these are the same people who were livid because Zendaya didn’t have much screen time in the first movie which is asinine. I cannot stand what they did to Chani- I don’t even know how they will resolve the choices her character makes in the later books. Sometimes I think there are too many people with room temperature IQ who lurk, ready to pounce on anything they think is an affront to their sensibilities. You did a great job. Ignore them. ❤❤
These people are insane, ignore them. They pulled the same sh¡t with Rey & Kylo for the new Star Wars (those movies suck BTW).
Analyzing a subject critically is part of engaging with the material. Whether I agree with the analysis or not, its poor form to attack the source. Having a debate around the subject should be respectful process. You can not agree with someone, but its neat to see a different viewpoint, sometimes it even opens your eyes to a new way to see the material. Keep doing what you are doing!
I agree with your points about the way the latest films ignored the Guild and didn't explain the relationship between the spice and the sandworms - If they're following the timeline of the novels, the next film will be set twelve years after the events of the the second film so I guess we'll have to wait and see. They'll really need to explain the Guild, though, and bring Paul & Chani back together if they're going to adapt the plot of Dune Messiah as it was written in the original novel. They might do something entirely different, but I agree that everyone has a right to state their opinion.
Really enjoy your videos! At the end of your day, it's your channel and your entitled to your opinions. Keep up the great work!
DON'T BE SILENCED. You have a right to speak
I felt the same way about the changes to her character. I wondered how others felt about it. I was happy to see that others bothered by the changes. It is a big change from the book and certainly could impact future films. I am unfortunately not surprised that people were bothered by what you said. People so often forget that we can have different thoughts and ideas. I feel like often today people would rather find a reason to be bothered than taking the time to understand and allow thoughts or opinions different from their own. In my opinion, you said nothing wrong. It is okay that others do not. Thank you for your videos.
I just finished this video and totally agree with your take on how Chani’s character has been portrayed. Keep up the good work!
It just makes so little sense for a Fremen elite like her and his lover to be the most critical of Paul.
And this change from the book serves no purpose. We had an entire first movie to show us how Paul was groomed into being this special Leader, there is no reason for Chani to complain about false prophet bullshit, we literally saw how he was groomed and how the people behind his scenes orchestrated the situation for him to benefit.
We all have a right to our opinions, and you've never been disrespectful to actors in your opinions. Thank you for giving your perspective and questioning how DV is going to resolve the Paul Chani problem in Dune Messiah. There are many of us fans of Dune wondering the same thing. When DV changed Kynes from male to female he kept the character together and we're hoping he does as well resolving this issue.
You don't owe Stans *anything,* acknowledgement least of all. Ignore them. Let them cry into their soy milk. Alone. Let them. You never have to explain your preferences or tailor your perspectives for anyone.
As much as I love Christopher Walkin, him being cast as the emporer was the lowest part of the two movies for me. It's not the Emporer there. It's Christopher Walkin there. However, that low point was immediately superceded by Chani getting up and walking out of the room, then her being the last thing we see at the end of the second movie. HORRIBLE choices in an otherwise note-perfect execution.
I also love Christopher Walkin but it felt like the character lacked the commanding presence that I know the actor is capable of. Not sure if it was a directorial choice, but the emperor felt feeble and weak to me.
I kinda felt that him appearing weaker was a good choice. And I personally felt his performance was good as he expresses such anger and spitefulness every time he talks
@@DurpyKraken Absolutely! He's a master of his craft. Unfortunately, I'm a huge fan of Kevin Pollack and others that can nail his voice and then satorize his manorisms. Thus, it's spoiled for me :)
@ fair enough. My dream casting would be Charles dance fs
You did a wonderful rebuttal. The facts speak for themselves. You provided clear evidence in a respectful manner. I rather enjoy your perspectives - so it’s heartning to know you will continue to provide commentary for us nerdy fans. Salute!
You’re my favorite TH-camr who talks about Dune. I look forward to your videos your legit the only sub I have notifications on for so keep doing your thing 🙏🏾
Completely agree with everything you’ve said & you’re totally right about the Paul/Chani relationship. Have been a massive fan of everything Dune related (well Frank Herbert Dune, haven’t read anything Brian yet) since I first read it back in mid-80’s.
It's a stupid attack, Zendaya got a bad role. It's not an indictment of her acting. it's an indictment of Denis if anything. Why did he cut this out other than time?
Don't worry about them, keep doing what you like doing! You have the best analysis on dune I have seen so far.
I agree on your gripes about the adaptations, as much as there are a number of things that I love out of Villeneuve's adaptation. That Thufur was cut out of Part Two entirely, that dialogue between Paul and the Reverend Mother that was featured in the trailer for Part One got cut out, that they cut out the Banquet scene, that Piter and Yueh were barely visible as characters...so much of this version was robbed of its texture to make for a slick visual package. And leaving out the ecology of Arrakis, and the origins of the Spice! This movie had a chance to illustrate how Paul had the power to destroy spice production forever, but they dumbed it down to nuking the spice plains. That was so disappointing.
We Have your back. So many of us were yelling at the screen at the end of the last movie. Keep up the great work!
From one Dune fan to another, i have really appreciated your comments on the DV adaptations. So many of my friends who have never read the novels were so impressed by the movies and could not understand my disappointments with them. I've taken a lot of comfort in knowing that other fans of the series feel the same way i do and see the same flaws i see. Thanks for persevering through the bs. Cheers!
I 100% agree with you about chani, been a dune fan for about 15 years
I know that it is hard when you are passionate about something but my advise would be: ignore them and don't engage because that is the worst that can happen to these people - no reaction at all 😉
@NerdCookies By the way, love the background music. I don't know why but it sounds a bit Bladerunner-ish 🙂
They obviously don't understand the source material. Your review was on point. Keep doing what you do.
Unfortunately, these days, too many can't divorce reality and fantasy. Likely it was thumb nail is what caught their attention and didn't bother delving into your analysis. I hope you never stop talking about the story, the films, the books, and the future. Love your work!
You did a good job with this video! I totally know what you mean with the random attacks from people who did not even look what you said. Everyone gets them in life now. Your doing great keep going! :D
I have problems with the writing concerning Chani and I still know that most of the Dune fandom who don't like the casting don't really think the writing is the problem,they think the actress is the problem and her only and that's my issues with this whole fandom tbh
Chani is the only character I liked by the end of dune part 2 hopefully they don't ruin her in the next movie
I'm sick of these people who only look at the headline and attack. If they watched the video they'd see how great a TH-camr Elaine is and they'd subscribe to her channel because she does great content.
You were spot on with your discussions about the new Dune films. Chani always knew that Paul loved her first and most, and that his marriage to the princess was purely political in the books; there was no love there, only for Chani. Zendaya's portrayal made it seem that Paul had betrayed her, and that is something that Villeneuve is going to have to figure out and work around. You called it. Your channel is great because you don't beat people over the head with your opinions and claim your in the right and everybody else is wrong. You do you. If people have issues with your opinions, then they don't know what an opinion is.
Are they having a laugh with OUR Elaine????🤬🤬🤬
She's been reviewing and breaking down Dune for years well as other sci-fi but her forte is Dune. She gave am accurate and opinionated view of D.V. Dune that we all agreed on. I also think Zendaya was one of the biggest let downs with these Dune films. She was wooden had no more scope than she did in Spiderman. Timothee, Rebecca even bloody Jason Mamoa stepper uo his range for his part. Fk them!!!
We love you Nerd Cookies. Long live the fighters!! ⚔✊🏾⚔
You have nothing to justify or apologize for, Elaine. You are thoughtful, knowledgeable and engaging, and your channel is a great forum for discussion. There aren't many of those out there that do what yours does, so please...ignore the hysterics and keep doing what you're doing.
You were (as typical) spot on in your review of CHANI...crazy they confuse that with Zendaya! Keep keeping on, love your vids!
I listened to the video you are referring to. You talked about their Thier relationship and how the plot progresses. No big deal, Hollywood can suck it and get over themselves
Appreciate you take some time to review your critiques. Often there may be valid points ...
In this particular case, you are pointing out differences and the issues that arise.. And what you like and don't like.. And on the like and don't likes, it's ok to have another opinion.
Should not become a personal attack though...
Unfortunately, as you and your channel become more popular. .. expect more personal criticism.
Most all of us see you as reasonable, intelligent, and just a huge fan ..
Keep up the good content !
Follow the logic. If they say you mustn't say anything negative then by that metric the stans should also not say anything negative.
Check "the young ones/Rik comes to felicity's defence"
(PS I ADORE zendaya and she is the perfect casting for Chani to me)
I really like your videos. Some people just like to complain for the sake of complaining. Like you said, there is no logic behind it. Just ignore them. Your videos never criticize Zendaya as an actress. You just make points between the difference of the movie and the book.
I just found your channel. I'm a complete normie to Dune, and I loved the first Villanueve movie. However, I was infuriated with part 2. I really enjoyed the first 2 parts of it even though I had some issues. They were minor issues I could ignore. THEN, the 3rd act happened, and I hated everything to do with Chani and her actions. I immediately went to a friend who is well-versed in the lore and asked him to tell me how the books happen, and the changes to her character infuriated me even more. It makes me so sad what they did to her. I know I don't really have a right as a normie to be THAT angry, but I am either way. 😮💨 Sorry they are attacking you. I'm gonna go back and watch your lore videos now though!
There's already plenty of conflict in the original story. Chani was a true Fremen.
Love is absent from DV's Dune.. soulless Hollywood etc etc
You be you Nerd Cookies. We all love you!
Dont even worry about the complaint. If a viewer cant separate the character from the actor they have no understanding of film
Keep up the great content, NC! I look forward to your next video
Just rewatched Dune Pt2 after seeing your video which i agreed with 100% And YES you were spot on. The changes in her stand out way too much in comparison to the original story... This is definitely see more Zendaya in it than Chani. The strong adversarial Modern Hollywood empowered nature really didn't make sense
I enjoy your channel and your DUNE content - keep it up !!!
I had wondered if anyone else thought the way I did. I’ve been a fan of Dune all my life. In fact, the book was published the same year I was born. I agree. After reading the book over a dozen times, I got to a certain spot where nothing was a literary surprise, so I started paying attention to the other things in the books. One of the biggest things was, because you often “hear” the mental voice of one or more characters, it offers their unvarnished thoughts. In those moments (and there were even more of those than I thought) you really get a better sense of the absolute love that Paul and Chani have for one another. It’s total and in ways, all consuming. A love I had with my late wife. And the new movies totally get it wrong. I think in every scene in the movie where Chani is very angry with Paul, the exact opposite sentiment was being reflected in the book. Don’t get me wrong though, there were parts of this movie tinkled me. Just the sheer grandeur of the spice stores in Arrakeen….and so many others. And it wasn’t because the acting was bad. They got a magnificent cast. But….they changed a lot. I could go on but I’m really not busting on the movies. But I have to be honest that some of my favorite “Dune” moments are in the original TV mini-series. When Chani and Paul finally hug and voice the things they lost…makes me cry. I know I’m an old sentimental fool but there it is…..
Dont apologize, there is no need to. What you do is just stating an opinion. What I get of your channell is that it makes me think about my ideas, my perception of Dune and what others think of it. That stimulates the imagination, something I am convinced any form of SF is all about. If I have good, solid arguments to agree or not agree with you, I tell them in the comments. And there people again can agree or disagree again. You get a discussion, communication about a project we all love so much
Zendaya did what she was directed to do very well. I didnt like what she was directed to do.
Dennis said in an interview that he loves that she follows directions so well. So maybe we should start putting focus on to why he changed Chani?
You have great takes, ignore the idiots. Keep it coming.
Pffffffffff you cant even hear those haters from all the way up there. Keep doing you girl. Day one fan here.
Keep speaking your truth! Love your content and analysis of the content and its relativity to the source material and the world around us! Characters and actors are not the same and I applaud your consistent expression of your thoughts and opinions. Please don’t stop!
Oh, some people are just silly. I read the book more than a couple of times and have seen all other movie versions, and yes, I agree with you. The Chani story in the latest movie really is different. I noticed that too, nothing wrong with that.
I remember walking out of dune part 2 going...how is she going to die in childbirth if she walks away? In the books she understood that Paul was a bit part of the political system
Elaine,
You keep right on doing what you're doing.
Everyone is welcome to their own *constructive* opinions. But I agree with you, the attacking is silly. I can understand why people don't like deviations from the source, but as you mention, he choose to focus on the central themes of Dune.
Chani in the books is barely a character imo. Their love story is a wave of a hand with the time jump. I think they did her well in the movies. Personally, I'm looking forward to Messiah to see how they reconcile their relationship. I am a huge Dune book nerd as well.
I think a lot of things left out like the spacing guild, changing ecology, and mentats can be used in Messiah to expand the Dune universe for the non-book reader. We have Edric for the spacing guild, Hayt for Mentats. Messiah as a stand alone is not as exciting as Dune, I hope these things will be expanded on by DV to bring out a richer movie.
Saying that you think an actor or actress is miscast is not an attack on that performer or their fans. No single performer is perfect for every conceivable role, and any 'blame' falls on the person who made the bad casting choice. Equally, saying that the Chani character was changed in the movie script in a manner that undermines the functioning of the Dune story is more a criticism of the intention of the writers of the Dune movies to try to rewrite Herbert's work than it is a criticism of the actress who just says what she is told to say (even if she does sometimes do herself no favours by coming across as unlikeable, arrogant and conceited in the role). Unfortunately, the more hardcore of fan groups (especially the depressing phenomenon of so called 'stans' or 'stalker fans' that seek to raise creepy and wildly excessive obsessiveness to an artform) tend to be strangers to the concepts or reason and acting in good faith. They can't see beyond the end of the petty celebrity obsession that they have allowed to entirely define their whole existence, and will react with ludicrous levels of disproportionate vitriol toward anyone who criticises their idol for any reason, no matter how tangential, mild and/or well justified that criticism may be.
As to Momoa playing Idaho, that's just wrong on so many levels. Have any of Momoas' fans actually picked up a book, any book, excluding comics, let alone Frank Herbert's Epic Masterpiece, Dune?, read Herbert's own words, out loud, when he describes Idaho's appearance... I double dog dare you to find any similarity other than two arms, two legs, a head... Seriously, Momoa could've played Halleck, if the audience was color blind... The oversized oaf fits that suit...it could be said it was custom tailored to fit his description even...
A perfect example of a point where we can disagree and get along! I thought the role of Mamoa's Duncan in part one was epic! To your point, I am a little concerned about his ability to pull off what comes next though...
@NerdCookies that is a part of my issue... He has no depth, beyond, "hi, I'm Jason, I'll be playing the role"...
@NerdCookies the only difference in his performance of Aquaman and Idaho is the costume.
@@seanhewitt603 when I saw him in Dune I only saw Ronon Dex (his character in Stargate Atlantis).
@CathrineMacNiel or aquafina, oops Aquaman...
I was glad for your video, I did not like the changes to the story for chani or Alia. so it was nice to hear a different take on the film rather then “it was perfect!”
To clarify loved the dune movies
Well said. I also believe the first Dune movie left out something essential: the betrayal plot. Without it, the film lacks suspense and feels somewhat lifeless. This is one of the key elements that drives the narrative in the first part of the book.
I never read the books. What betrayal
Chani was warped into a character who felt entirely out-of-place among the Fremen she supposedly grew up with. She felt more like a blank slate for a self-insert, particularly with her eschewing her culture's religious beliefs with a throw-away line about "Northern Fremen". Which itself was never developed or meaningfully fleshed out - the only "Northern Fremen" you only see Chani's girl gaggle. These choices were pretty strange, when they removed (or at least never mentioned) that Liet Kynes was Chani's parent, an off-worlder who would have been a much more organic explanation for Chani's dissonance with the rest of Fremen culture in a way that would have been much less disruptive to the story being adapted.
I agree with your assessment, as someone who re- reads the source every couple of years, but still love the vision of the films 👍🏼