Carlos Martinez, “China and the Future of Socialism”
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2022
- This discussion with Carlos Martinez, moderated by Jennifer Ponce de León and Gabriel Rockhill, took place at the Critical Theory Workshop's Summer School 2022 on July 18th. The background reading for the discussion was:
Carlos Martinez, “Will China Suffer the Same Fate as the Soviet Union?”: socialistchina.org/2021/06/24...
For more information: criticaltheoryworkshop.com/
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Love your stuff guys but please get better audio for the recordings, maybe a boom or shotgun microphone.
Yep the sound levels/quality needs attending to (as so often in these forums) , a proper sound system is sine qua non fr public appearances, a technological issue ya omit at yr peril. This from an ex (commo )muso.
Excellent discussion!
Most concise explanation on China nice
Thank you for post and contents.
The sound is terrible.
the castro quotes in which he complements contemporary china are a 'telesurenglish' article titled 'china is most promising hope for third world fidel'
If you want to understand why socialism is an advance on liberalism and why a progressive modernising socialism will eventually replace a declining neo-liberalism, first understand how and why mother nature originally selected for the most internally cooperative communities rather than the most competitive individuals. A good place to start understanding this dynamic is the human body and the evolution of its 50 trillion cells, a biological, social dynamic that is far more complex, tried and tested than any abstract socio-economic form of governance. The best of political thinkers on the left have been conscious of this natural dynamic of 'cooperative communities', expressing it in their various ways according to the dominant social circumstances of their era. Marx himself, ever since the early years of his revolutionary activity, was acutely conscious of the dialectical unity between diversity and mutual reinforcement, as illustrated in his comment that “what the nations have done as nations, they have done for human society,” a comment which was recently quoted by Xi Jinping. Similarly, Lenin wrote that “all nations will arrive at socialism - this is inevitable, but all will do so in not exactly the same way.” A China that continues to modernise socialism will also continue to provide alternative opportunities for developing countries and emerging markets to develop their own productive forces and economies; thereby contributing to the overall progress of our species.
There is also Marx s less known, more
recently translated + analyzed, ecological/environmental writings---
socialism is community control of
rconomy, capitalism provoking "meta
bolic rift" vs.nature, etc. See many.books
by many thinkers published by Monthly
Review Press, US.
The live microphone being nearer the mouth produces less echoey sound. Echoing degrades the intelligibility of the words.
The fact of China has changed the design. Capitalism versus Communism is front and center on the world stage. Empower the United Nations and the International Criminal Court. The operation in Ukraine is drifting towards a nuclear first strike advantage by North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The shift in the balance of power is at a crossroad in world history. The fact of China is now. Thanks for the information and your commitment. I am grateful, stay strong.
Fantastic!
Thank you for this. Carlos is such a wealth of knowledge.
1) Limited, often manipulated, purely
internal democracies are often rampaging empires--- Athens, Rome,
Caribbean pirates, US,.English, French,
etc. empires all "democratically"
debated who +.how to exploit + oppress.
Recent research posted on Internet
showed how Athenian, male citizens democratically
discussed who + how to invade,.even
which human rights violations/crimes
vs. humanity/war crimes to.commit!!!
Free speech +.human rights.for slavers + mass murderers!! Just what human
species needs.
Truly democratic countries have internal
democracy & external democracy in equal relations + interactions + other
countries.
Yea democracy serves the bourgeoisie as usual
@@elia8544no, that's Liberal democracy.
@@antediluvianatheist5262 that’s what I meant
Is there a range of elements that are socialist +.some basic fundamental ones? For example, national.independence, public control of
most areas of society, largely equal rights + necessities (life, income, employ
ment. housing, etc.).
But are there variations within this general framework---more local
governance/control--- grassroots, rank +
file committees, Co ops, etc. to replace private capitalist corporations + gov.
bureaucracies, or to overlap + them,
multi party coalition of independent
left(s) rather than 1 party + different
tendencies?
The 1 party version comes from at ist
poor, mainly agricultural, partly industrial
partial.or full colonies, often that needed
guerilla wars to free selves.
Coalition + grassroots rank + file version mostly was done in Commune of Paris
1871, Russia 1917 to 21,France + Czechoslovakia 1968,
Portugal 1974
shorter time length, largely urban mass
uprisings, which often were militarily too weak.
However, election successes in
some S American countries may show
another (limited?) way..
All these versions are self described s s
socialist.
Terrible audio so l turned it off
12:20 Yeah, this will age well.
But they did manage it well
@@waitingformyman9317 No, China did not manage it well, unless by 'well' you allow for the CCP to literally weld their people's doors shut with them inside and causing massive protests brought on by starvation.
They didn't manage it well. No country that has pursued a zero Covid policy has done so without significant violations of basic human rights.
@@markpaul1383 where is the proof of doors getting welded? I've only heard of this as hearsay from lib media
@@markpaul1383they handled it well. You are wrong.
@@antediluvianatheist5262 Unless you have something interesting to contribute, ibid.
It is so sad to see Socialist- Marxists oscillate between orthodoxy and an outdated, vague notion of anti-imperialism. Carlos went one step further to praise all authoritarian regimes (I heard Iran even), which are just different forms of global capitalism. The worse thing about Carlos's position is that he almost blanded orthodox Marxism with the critique of the eurocentrism of decolonial theory. Secondly, when defending all the relative social benefits in China, basically, he reduces socialism as necessity economic system of poverty, scarcity, and so on. That's nothing to do with Marx's notion of historical necessity. Gabrial asks valid questions, but Carlos instead goes the lame comparison of capitalism with socialism. That comparison does not provide a convincing argument about socialism at all. We all know capitalism is evil, destructive and constantly by its nature, creating the catastrophic crisis, but the duty of Marxists is to draw a map for post-capitalist configuration, not simply position themselves as anti-capitalist.
i totally agree with your last sentence. Most Marxist fight an information war about the past, that they can't win in capitalism. to me, the key to convince working class people of socialism being the better choice, is to show how a planned economy can bring them more comfort, quality of life and safety, than ineffectually trying to reform capitalism (which is the narrative of social democracy)
Yes, you are absolutely right. They are swinging between orthodoxy and social democracy. They totally lost the revolutionary spirit of Marxism. Middle-class Marxism inevitably landed on either side or some form of culturalism.
@@selahkemal6322 it's a tragedy and the result of relentless capitalist propaganda. what can we do to turn this around? i recommend reading Lenin to everyone i meet :) also there must be some more socialist content on social media/youtube. i like the channel "second thought" for example...
@@WastedContender feel you comrade but let’s see this in a dialectical way.
The fact that we know we can not win the information war doesn’t mean we don’t have to fight it.
We have to put pressure also in that front because we never know what the futur reserves us, maybe opportunities.
And never forget that without a clear and right explanation of the historical contexte we can not comprehend the present thus project ourself in the futur.
Teaching the history of the international proletariat is very important.
For the reste, I agree with you. Planed economy is the futur and it will become clearer in the people mind the further we advance in the climate crisis
dear @@MsMattmatt24 , debunking imperialist lies is essential, i agree. But who can relate to eg. Soviet struggles to build up a socialist state, when we have totally advanced possibilities nowadays. Most of people already know, that capitalism is not sustainable. What we socialists have to emphasize, is what socialism has to offer to people. Better working conditions, more democracy!, better social services, health insurance, etc.
People have to see, that living under socialism is not despair and scarcity. :)
Carlos must start every public appearance by making clear his stance on vax mandates, martial law style lockdowns and medical apartheid. No socialist can be for these issues if they indeed are fighting for working class people. A cursory reading of Benda and a basic grasp of late stage capitalism should make it clear what I am getting at here.
That's the least of it. China is capitalism on steroids and sadly very far from leading the charge for socialism.
@@shellyshelly9218 Strongly disagree. Being pro mandates and pro lockdowns in a Western context is a horrific mistake given the millions of workers these policies have harmed. As for the CPC and China the context of imperialism is key - they are fighting to survive the hybrid warfare waged by the west against them. This includes bio terrorism.
@@markandersen154 when china does lockdowns is good when the west does it's bad 🤡
@@markandersen154 I don't see any disagreement here. If you are talking about China I assume you read Mao's text on Contradiction. Contradiction in general is a Marxist-Leninist concept. The fact that China today has an anti-imperialist stance vis-a-vis the US (as Russia does) is not incompatible with the Capitalist nature of its current economy. Primary (inter class struggle) and secondary (intra-class struggle). China is very capitalist, different from the US but what matters here is the workers' conditions and level of empowerment. As we can see today they are awful in both systems, and in China maybe even worse as the Chinese system extracts more plus value from labour at home than abroad. The US do the other way around. At the end, globally both economies are based on plus-value exploitation at home or abroad at different degrees. There is nothing here that allow us to see China's evolution as moving towards socialism. We saw some years ago as any attempt of "neo-Maoism" (Bo Xilai case) will be severely repressed by Denguists. And I am talking about a non-revolutionary form of Maoism revival, you can imagine what would be the reaction if I was talking about hardcore Maoism. Singapore also has a one State party with planned economy and no homeless. So what?
PS. Your claim on "late stage capitalism" is representative of a very linear view of history. Capitalism is not doomed to be replaced by Socialism. A new form of Fascism is taking shape before our eyes. To expect that Socialism will simply emerge from Chinese "princelings" is too easy to be true. A very comfortable stance I must admit as we can simply say that yes, Socialism is strong and evolving, when in reality it is in its lowest point since its revolutionary conception from Marx.
Excellent discussion!