So in the end, what we needed is unconditional love. Too bad it's so rare these days, and will only get rarer because people who were never properly loved don't know how to love, but still have children.
totally. I watched a lot of nice videos by G and S .. they all come back to co-regulation and having some people in your life + being health wise well to do things like yoga etc. what is people dont have that? (both people family and being with chronic illness and pain) .. Because of this I appreciated their nice content a lot but also discouraged that survival needs some resources in this tribal community ... I agree with your last sentence ...
@@shahilagh a lot of people who lacked community supports in immediate community have found covid expanded the size of their communities... especially as more people followed the example of Mutual Aids and found ways they could contribute that didn't exceed their spoons. It's actually how The Wisdom of Trauma film gained so much traction so quickly, and why the Trauma Healing & Prevention TH-cam channel was born. A dear friend today reminded me that inertia is the only thing upholding the status quo, which actually gives them hope because each one of us is capable of change.... and as each one of us changes, we throw a monkey wrench in inertia.
@@traumahealingandprevention yeah this works if someone is well enough to have the need for just talking with someone; then the community helps. You haven’t experienced the life reality of what I say. When someone has illness and is alone and needs help but they don’t have that and do it themselves and safety that all those theories are about don’t exist … No need to defend them . What I say or the other person wrote is an opportunity for them to acknowledge our social limits.
@@shahilagh why do you think I haven't experienced the reality of being homeless? Of being all alone with no supports? Is it easier to think that there is no way someone went from rough sleeping to married to an abuser with kids, to living out of a car with kids, to being determined that no one else should ever have to feel that alone and discarded by society? Our society was set up to intentionally be self-perpetuating, all that is required is for no one to change, and everything remains exactly the same: Power as an illusion, yielded up to those who punch down... A never-ending revolving door of whom is "othered" to distract people from paying attention to what we actually have control over.... A growing divide between "haves" and "have nots" and an intentionally fostered addiction process to prevent people from recognizing that a community, even a community of unhoused individuals is stronger than any CEO... as long as they work together. This is not an easy conversation to have IRL, and nearly impossible to have online. My personal experience is htose of us who have nothing, have spent an extended time having nothing, are far more willing to share what we have with anyone who has less, because we are more in touch with our humanity than individuals who have "the luxury" of distancing themselves from their humanity with work... with material things... with distractions. Once people have no more distractions, they get very focused, and it is that focus that society is intentionally set up to distract us from with infighting/arguing/othering. So, if it's easier to think I haven't lived it... then I haven't lived it. Do what you need to do so you can get through each day, and when you are ready to change, you will.
LOVE this sooooo much! thank you all.I'm a career musician and now sound therapist on Vancouver Island BC and came across Stephen's polyvagal theory in my degree studies. My passion for connection through sound and music keeps me awake at night visioning ways to implement this in my community and beyond. We CAN.
Gabor Mate said it very clearly in Zeitgeist part 3 where he covers childhood trauma and how it relates to addiction and ignorance and trauma in adulthood whether you’re poor or whether you’re rich. “Executives who exploit and pollute the planet for maximized corporate profits are addicted to power and look at the damage it causes…….yet they’re rewarded!” Thank you Gabor Mate for all you do. No more hungry ghosts or extinction.
00:54 Gabor Maté introduce Stephen Porges 03:24 "We wear our Hearts on our Faces." 03:35 Antoine de Saint-Exupéry 04:31 A shared Hungarian root 06:28 聽 (耳+心) 06:46 聽 > 聞 07:10 Heart and Coherence 08:25 Cortical Centric↔Cognitive Centric 09:50 Thomas Hübl 10:13 Oliver Sacks 10:28 Ronald Reagan 11:57 Polyvagal Theory 15:15 Rae Maté 17:32 Stephen Porges 18:39 Same person but NOT the Same 19:13 Sue Carter 19:54 Childhood Photos & Old Movies 24:01 Inflammatory Disorders and AutoImmune Disorders 24:23 "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" 25:05 Safety 26:47 Trauma 30:16 Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome 33:32 Co-Regulation enables Self-Regulation 36:15 Jaak Panksepp 40:28 End Organs 42:17 James Doty 43:18 Nancy Reagan 43:54 Hillary Clinton 44:40 “A Star is Born” 46:40 (insights on these additional conditions…) 50:47 John E Sarno 51:50 Vagal Health Practices 54:40 Continuity 55:11 The Future of Polyvagal Theory 57:32 Wrappers Around Our Core 59:46 Stephen Jenkinson 01:00:25 Attached and Authentic 01:02:42 Sow Seeds 01:04:42 Restructuring on "How" 01:05:54 Brilliance and Passion Every Since Dr. Maté guided me to Dr. Porges' work (2012), I longed to witness a conversation between them on TH-cam. This upload delivered. How they shared and What they shared are in style of class, spirit uplifting, and humanity. Maté was a high school English teacher before he pursued his medical profession, he speaks as he would write. Much as we are interested in Polyvagal Theory itself, let us also enjoy what was being shared in their conversation. This conversation is "PLAY" in its best demonstration. Somehow this Maté & Porges conversation lead me to listen to Franz Krommer's Concerto for Two Clarinets E♭, Op.35
"I want to discouple disautonomia from the disease. The disease itself is a threat stimulus to the Nervous System, but not part of the disease." THIS!!!! is so key to getting better. wonderfully put! Thanks for this Trauma talk xxxx
Thank you for helping me understand who I am. I grew up by myself, literally. No one told me what to do. I felt free to walk around the town l lived. My grandmother worked long hours. It is a long story. As a baby, some neighbors took care of me. My memories start at the age of three. Dr. Maté, in one of his conferences, made me realize my survival and the independent woman that l became. Dr. Porges made me realize why l am a self-regulator person. I have discovered the world without having money; no fears, just learning and how others live I am 75 years old woman with wonderful and unfortunate stories that fill my life with love and compassion for others
I am grateful that there are these bold courageous individuals that do step outside the box so that we can all evolve.....see the light, to look at the whole not the end. Amazing talk & series. Thank you to all of you involved, your work & discussion is very much appreciated. I will most certainly be sharing xx
Oh so many blessings. I knew there was something about connecting with others, but I have just finally understood why the cure to my migraines normally includes being with others. Just two days ago I had to teach for three hours, interestingly about compassionate listening and feedback. I had a massive headache but by the end of my work... I was almost pain free. My social connection was my medicine. Thank you so much for making this available to us all.
Thank you, thankyou, thank you! Wonderful discussion, and for me, at age 82, I now want to do something, groupwork, perhaps, with younger and older people, experientially. Because of my husband's death and my own cancer experience, have lost courage and initiative. Truth be told, I never fully developed these, I now intend to work towards rebuilding them and putting the experience and insight to work. Thank you! (I live in Australia). Johanna Blows
It is great to see two of the people whom I respect and admire the most together discussing trauma, how we react, how it affects us and why. Thank you so very much.
Dr.Stephen and Dr. Gabor, thanks both of you for sharing your knowledge with the world. What beautiful souls you two are! We need more doctors like you two..
Two of my favourite people. I’ve watched young house surgeons come through their training as Doctors and marvelled when they had come through the system relatively unscathed. I specialised in Paediatrics when I went back nursing after having children. I had realised that the whole family needs support if a child was Ill. I found that I had to be so careful that I wasn’t rubbing up against my superiors and causing change that they didn’t agree with. I ended up creating a scenario that prepared the child for a traumatic procedure with the use of play specialists and on film that the whole family could watch. After I left they scrubbed the whole preparation, I suppose they thought it was a waste of time.
Today, even listening to a person in medical situations is almost non existent. No eye contact, no validation, Nothing. There is Failed Medical Systems because the Focus is PROFIT. Despite the high cost of insurance, it is difficult to receive needed care, tests, etc.
This has given me such important insights on the deep choice between authenticity and attachment as well as a veld excuse to dance as a complement to my breathing: anywhere anytime. What joy! Thank you x
I cannot express how utterly thrilled I feel to hear of the work going on at the Polyvagal Institute in regards to.integrating new understandings of being human into the education, medical and corporate structures... that was like a cherry on top to hear Dr.Porgess share that at end of an already great conversation. Thank you to Gabor and Stephen for sharing👍🏼👍🏼
Truly two brilliant and exceptional minds in mental health and wellness. Thank you so much, such an honor and a privilege to listen to you both speaking together.
I could deal with childhood dysfunction and never had any physical health problems until my middle thirties. I married in my late twenties and started having children in my thirties. When I had children everything changed I could handle all life threw at me but when I had children it all changed. I was now their protector. I can handle whatever life had but I was going to protect them. I was sexually assaulted at thirty five by my husband's disabled nephew. I was left alone to babysit my four year old daughter and the nephew while the family went to a funeral. I believe I could have moved past this experience but the response I received from my husband was the nephew didn't know what he was doing. Husband didn't consider my feelings or how I was traumatized. Husband told me I should have been able to fight off a twelve year old boy. He's stronger than me and out weighed me by fifty pounds. For an hour and a half I was assaulted. My fight or flight kicked in and I knew I had to protect my four year old daughter. I have long hair and my hair was drenched in sweat like I'd just gotten out of the shower. I thought my husband would have a better understanding and have compassion towards me so I tried to show my husband what his nephew did to me and my husband couldn't handle what I was trying to imitate what had been done to me. He told me he didn't want to know and left the room. I had no idea this episode would be my breakdown. I began to have many problems. Irritable bowel syndrome, severe migraines. Finally my body shutdown. I could not walk and was bedridden for a year. I had no diagnosis from fourteen doctors. I just wanted my life back. I could no longer work, make home cooked meals for my family, no longer involved in my church as a teacher for children, caregiver for my elderly parents, be a wife or mother. My abilities were gone without pain medication and by the time I got a diagnosis it was to late. I was addicted to pain meds. Physical therapy helped some but I will never be the mother my children knew in their early childhood. My diagnosis was myofacial pelvic floor pain. Looking back it all makes sense. Your body can only handle so much before you will notice mild then severe physical problems.
First, thank so much for being so brave to share your painful experience. Second, we, as humans, need to work on our listening, understanding and patience skills in order to connect to orher humans and not just dismiss them quickly. I do think that your husband got triggered by your sharing of your experience. Obviously, it was too much for him to handle. Maybe, just maybe, he had not dealt with some of his traumas, and thus he reacted the way he did. We are all traumatized and many of us are afraid to even talk about it. We need to learn to talk about ANYTHING and not be ashamed or afraid that people around us, especially the closest ones, would judge us. This is a new way of life, and our brain needs to be rewired.
Sorry you had to go through all of this but don’t give up, recovery is possible. There are so many marvelous success stories online and educational videos on mind body syndromes. Wish you all the best!
Fabulous. My second listen. I have found some very effective exercises for the Vagus nerve. I have had anxious gut for 14 years. No one I’ve seen could help me, including a neuropsychiatrist at UCSF. Sukie Baxter has a TH-cam channel that shares these exercises. Pretty miraculous to have a calm gut & demeanor after 10 minutes of exercises.
The energy and enthusiasm in this conversation combined with such profound information is exhilarating to view. Thank you deeply for posting this for all to see.
How can physical therapists be more involved in these conversations? We treat people with all these conditions and much of the industry is still in the dark about this!
Re: 'social action' as a new treatment model: I had the following insight as I emerged from a large Buddhist monastery after a first visit, years ago: "I had thought that, because I was suffering, I needed to be alone -- but it was being alone that was most of the suffering."
There is so much here to review again and again. I was particularly resonate with Stephen’s comments about watching old movies in part to revisit some of the cultural aspects portrayed in a time when he was growing up. Just recently I felt compelled to watch some of the the popular shows I watched during the 70’s and boy I didn’t even want to let my young daughter overhear it. The viewing of it shed light on how it was most impressive to numb down (not dumb down) as a human being especially in a case where both parents are fervently working to keep a roof over our head with little time to counteract it and the kids are left to their own devices and influences of it for long and consistent periods of time.
I went back & watched an important show from my youth "American Bandstand" & was blown away! I absolutely believed those kids were average teens when I watched as an adolescent with my teenage sisters! It was further insight into how much tel-lie-vision affected my perceptions about everything.
I've watched many Gabor videos multiple times and learn something new about myself every time. Even if it's just reinforcing new lessons learnt to continue change. Porges is equally as valuable to do your inner work with.
Thank you for giving words that explains what ancient Indians had discovered through Yoga . Extracting information and making it contemporary is a sacred work ..thanks to the organizers for bringing these brave people together ❤ and adding your critical context ! Much gratitude
So interesting about ehlers danlos. I ended up with Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue after I got diagnosed with EDS. All the mind body and trauma work i had to help me heal cfs and fibro have left the ehlers danlos symptoms nonexistent. I never knew why, but this explains it. Amazing!
EXCELLENT! 👏 Thank you both and to you Dr Maté, please try and get the movie Wisdom of Trauma out so EVERYONE is able to see it. Especially people who can't afford paying for it. I Feel it's that important and should be shown in high schools! I have been fortunate enough to watch it over ten times as my friend has a copy, it's riveting!!! Many thanks🙏❤✌
Oh my goodness! I loved the whole video. I have Ehlers-Danlos and psychiatric issues. I did not know there was a relationship between them. Fascinating! I have two of Gabor’s books and I just ordered Porges’. I can’t wait to read it. Thank you so much for sharing this interview. I have hope that things can get better 😃♥️🇨🇦
There's definitely hope! I had years of mental health issues with EDS. I am much much better thanks to mind body tools. Hoping you are coming through it. ❤️❤️❤️
Yummy! What a wonderful interview! Thank you so much for the opportunity to enjoy this conversation. I'm excited where it's going and I know i'll be adding it more and more into my work with massage therapy.
Absolutely brilliant video of fantastic minds, sharing their insight in the most humble, simplest psychology of how human nature in its many forms, could interact for the highest good for all Deeply grateful to had the opportunity to hear the coming together of what you have both shared in this video Thank you!
Thank you so much for this, I loved it!! I am a natural therapist and a yoga teacher, so all this amazing information and knowledge went straight into my heart. This is my approach to my work, too
I would to thank to all who helped conect this two amaizing people in their understanding. Especially dr Porgess. I love Gabor, but in this conversation he was the curiosity witness asking questions
It is comforting to know that my body can learn to feel safe again. Is there a hard way to do this in the case of preterm birth, suffocation and incubator trauma? Since covid, he doesn’t let go of some old bodily sensations about these and panics.
Yes, I agree about Craniosacral Therapy - it’s very gentle. In addition, touch your child as much as possible by hugging, rocking in your lap, and engage in imaginary play. Let the child play with simple hand made toys. Do not sit the child in front of TV, except for just 1/2 hour a day. It’s best to talk to a child, play, laugh, create a very safe and happy atmosphere. Plan ahead. Talk to other successful parents.... and so on. Blessings for your child 👶
i think about those psychoanalytic providers who believe in being “blank slates”’showing no facial expression to their patients and how potentially triggering this could be to patients who are wired to read facial cues for safety and how activating this alone could be to their attachments systems and how this alone could influence the entirety of treatment… then the patient gets pathologized instead of recognizing that this could be a normal response to a flat expression that gives no safety cues.
Very valuable, thank you. I think it’s difficult, and maybe does this conversation a disservice to use this format. People must find it slightly nerve wracking to not only attempt to have a conversation knowing an audience is listening and watching, but to fear that dreaded dead air. Would it maybe help to have a conversation over a bottle of wine, in front of a nice fireplace, (privately)and then edit it , so your communication is relaxed, you have time to collect your thoughts, and what the speakers really want to communicate can be found and presented to those wishing to learn? Just a thought. Also, it has to be impossible to grow up in a family which is not dysfunctional, and to never be traumatized. So we are all carrying around trauma and dysfunction. Our parents did, and our children will. Especially in the climate of fear we live in. Especially on social media, where natural diffusers like humour rarely work, and where people tend to be defensive? On healthy societies, I keep thinking of a piece of film I saw about a small tribe. Because all members are needed and can’t be wasted for the tribe to survive, they have this ritual. When one member of the tribe is troubled, they all sit down on the earth, in a circle. They face inward and have their legs stretched out in front of them, so every person’s foot is touching the foot of the next person. The member with the problem speaks up, then that tribe stays connected to each other and to the earth, and together they address the problem, and come up with a solution. I thought it was beautiful. BTW, they wore almost no clothing, comfortable to live their lives without hiding in clothes.
Acceptable idea or not, I have known families who did not pass on trauma to their children. Only a few, but real. Until I knew these families - and I mean I was involved closely in their lives - I didn't believe such relationships were possible This does not include my own family or my personal experience, quite the opposite. So I do know the difference between a family filled with love, joy and kindness and the way most families manipulate their children.
I spent a great deal of time at a clothing optional resort close to my home most of 2020. It was one of the only places that didn't restrict interaction. Nudity wasn't required but was practiced to an extent by all members. Lots more old & imperfect bodies at these places. I find them more accepting, more physically affectionate (not in a weird way) & more neighborly/helpful as a group.
"Sageness... needed, nourishing, noble! Wopila." "I carry meaning. I care for family. I care for society. I care for environment, all life. I care for their future. I cannot just live for I. I came to be, because of what came before. And thus, I am now, for what will be -- meaningfully." "In taking care of each other, we affirm our human nature, our collective strength and wholeness, our societal and ecological stewardship, our future. This is our soul.. our sole raison d'etre." ~ Paul Jung
Focusing on the problem/trauma makes me feel sick/bad. I am looking for the solution. Perception is bad for me. Creativity is good. Consciousness is the domain of the ego and its part of the problem. Consciousness is for experiencing consciously life, not for making decision's .
Who also comes to mind as I listen to this wonderful conversation and the direction that these 'bold' people are attempting to take their 'discoveries' -- is Ron Kurtz, founder of Hakomi therapy and the Refined Hakomi approach. (And of course also Dick Schwartz and his work with IFS...for the individual and how his powerful spirit, approach, ideas and techniques might reverberate in society. Ditto the work of Peter Levine and attachment work of Diane Poole Heller, and others.) Ron Kurtz, with Hector Prestera wrote, in 1994, the book 'The Body Reveals'. Ron brought forward the non-pathologizing approach that 'applied' Taoist and Buddhist wisdom and somatic and 'mindfulness' techniques - along with neuroscience and 'systems-thinking' approaches; he introduced concepts around paradoxical Taoist expressions like 'the best leader follows....' and applied them to 'following the natural course' and facilitating a discovering and healing journey for one interested in self-study (aka a client or patient) by tuning into somatic cues, making room for what he called 'the adaptive unconscious' to come forward into consciousness - with safety and attunement - for the self-studier to EXPERIENCE in a safe space and a 'compassionate witness', to understand the co-regulation (and almost energetic dancing) involved. So much of what Bessel van der Kolk ('The Body Keeps The Score') and his followers and colleagues, and people like Pat Ogden and Janina Fischer and others seem to resonate with and extend from there. Bless this wonderful discussion and the memory, humor, playfulness, compassionate expression and all -- and the boldness of a beloved mentor in Ron Kurtz. And the many others who respond with such feeling and passion (and compassion) to suffering in others, and the extent to which they also are share to move in 'preventative' directions.
Hello and thanks for the video. I have experienced trauma like car accidents as a kid. I have struggled with my mental/emotional health as a adult and think it's related. Can SSRI medication help with these types of issues. Thanks.
Have you thought about psychedelic mushrooms?? I have complex regional pain syndrome, but I have high hopes in your theory, I am wondering if microdose is something that will make that transition easier
Chiropractic was founded in 1895 based on disregulation of the nervous system, and why the “re-tuning” or adjustment allowed the innate wisdom and healing to occur. Chiropractor’s are really nervous system doctors 🙏🏻
YES. but the problem is that the outcomes aren't always the same, plus the pains come back. but yeah I agree C is so good. these people talk about recovering from trauma but dont say what about people with chronic pain who dont have the energy and any support to have those interactions they speak about helping with co-regulation ... I totally agree but this is often useful for people with resources (even very little) and plus not having much pain.
I am 60 and have Ehlers Danlos and dysautonomia. I wonder how I could become a part of Stphen Porges study? Is there a way to contact him? Thank you, this is fascinating. If I could regulate my autonomic system better, I know I would not have half the pain I am dealing with.
you might be interessted to check out ANS (autonomic nervous system) rewire by Dan Neuffer. He made the programme for Fibromialgia and Chronic fatigue, ....but listening to Gabor and Steven...it may be for other conditions, too!! I have FM for almost 20 years - downhill for all that time. Now this programme is getting me up up up, I am improving and also know why I'm not, when things are stagnant for a while! Not a quick fix, been at it for a year.
I healed my issues via plant medicine work w ayahuasca. My suggestion is 3 ceremonies over 5 days every 3-4 months for 3 or 4 years. Find a good facilitator and make sure you have a good integration program is crucial. It’s very powerful and useful medicine. I’m convinced it regulates the autonomous nervous system.
Look up nichole stachs on the cure for chronic pain and disease . And also dr shubinar unlearn your pain . Both of these are all about emotional trauma release with expressive writing and mindfulness . It's free. Join the fb group journal speak . I'm really serious there are thousands of people symthom free from fibromyalgia , dysautonomia , me/ cfs , other chronic pain conditions and imune diseases. It all came from the work of dr john sarno and gabor mate and him had a film together called( all the rage ). I've been doing it a month and I'm not completely better of pots and chronic pain and but over all I'm 70 percent better and I'm back at work after 2 years of nearly bedridden . Please look this up if you truly beleave that there is a mind body connection
We can be born more sensitive than other people so emotional wounds will be more likely and have a greater impact. Trauma is not the event but how the nervous system responds to the event, a sensitive person will be more affected by it than a less sensitive person would be.
Observing the effects of misidentified cause. Brain is an effect. Cause is held true feeling. Not the feeling you think you have the one you don’t know you have. Injury is in the Will which majorly effects the head. Also Body is an effect of the Will. So working with those two is endless. Also the Will/pure feeling has ears. The biggest ears. Btw Will is not the willpower but a pure feeling that doesn’t talk. Feelings don’t talk they express by feeling only which when trained to hear has a Voice. Voice of Unity. And this is hearing the VOICE which is the healer. Humans can’t heal without this Voice. Period. You will as you keep TRYING.
Not so much on orientation, as far as abuse can't turn someone gay. Yes on desires/aversions, addiction, and internal programming of what is/is not okay.
So in the end, what we needed is unconditional love. Too bad it's so rare these days, and will only get rarer because people who were never properly loved don't know how to love, but still have children.
Sad and true…yet while we have breathe there is always hope.
🙏
totally. I watched a lot of nice videos by G and S .. they all come back to co-regulation and having some people in your life + being health wise well to do things like yoga etc. what is people dont have that? (both people family and being with chronic illness and pain) .. Because of this I appreciated their nice content a lot but also discouraged that survival needs some resources in this tribal community ... I agree with your last sentence ...
@@shahilagh a lot of people who lacked community supports in immediate community have found covid expanded the size of their communities... especially as more people followed the example of Mutual Aids and found ways they could contribute that didn't exceed their spoons. It's actually how The Wisdom of Trauma film gained so much traction so quickly, and why the Trauma Healing & Prevention TH-cam channel was born.
A dear friend today reminded me that inertia is the only thing upholding the status quo, which actually gives them hope because each one of us is capable of change.... and as each one of us changes, we throw a monkey wrench in inertia.
@@traumahealingandprevention yeah this works if someone is well enough to have the need for just talking with someone; then the community helps. You haven’t experienced the life reality of what I say. When someone has illness and is alone and needs help but they don’t have that and do it themselves and safety that all those theories are about don’t exist … No need to defend them . What I say or the other person wrote is an opportunity for them to acknowledge our social limits.
@@shahilagh why do you think I haven't experienced the reality of being homeless? Of being all alone with no supports?
Is it easier to think that there is no way someone went from rough sleeping to married to an abuser with kids, to living out of a car with kids, to being determined that no one else should ever have to feel that alone and discarded by society?
Our society was set up to intentionally be self-perpetuating, all that is required is for no one to change, and everything remains exactly the same: Power as an illusion, yielded up to those who punch down...
A never-ending revolving door of whom is "othered" to distract people from paying attention to what we actually have control over....
A growing divide between "haves" and "have nots" and an intentionally fostered addiction process to prevent people from recognizing that a community, even a community of unhoused individuals is stronger than any CEO... as long as they work together.
This is not an easy conversation to have IRL, and nearly impossible to have online. My personal experience is htose of us who have nothing, have spent an extended time having nothing, are far more willing to share what we have with anyone who has less, because we are more in touch with our humanity than individuals who have "the luxury" of distancing themselves from their humanity with work... with material things... with distractions.
Once people have no more distractions, they get very focused, and it is that focus that society is intentionally set up to distract us from with infighting/arguing/othering.
So, if it's easier to think I haven't lived it... then I haven't lived it. Do what you need to do so you can get through each day, and when you are ready to change, you will.
LOVE this sooooo much! thank you all.I'm a career musician and now sound therapist on Vancouver Island BC and came across Stephen's polyvagal theory in my degree studies. My passion for connection through sound and music keeps me awake at night visioning ways to implement this in my community and beyond. We CAN.
Gabor Mate said it very clearly in Zeitgeist part 3 where he covers childhood trauma and how it relates to addiction and ignorance and trauma in adulthood whether you’re poor or whether you’re rich. “Executives who exploit and pollute the planet for maximized corporate profits are addicted to power and look at the damage it causes…….yet they’re rewarded!” Thank you Gabor Mate for all you do. No more hungry ghosts or extinction.
Yes they ignore the cause only treat the symptoms. Very negligent.
00:54 Gabor Maté introduce Stephen Porges
03:24 "We wear our Hearts on our Faces."
03:35 Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
04:31 A shared Hungarian root
06:28 聽 (耳+心)
06:46 聽 > 聞
07:10 Heart and Coherence
08:25 Cortical Centric↔Cognitive Centric
09:50 Thomas Hübl
10:13 Oliver Sacks
10:28 Ronald Reagan
11:57 Polyvagal Theory
15:15 Rae Maté
17:32 Stephen Porges
18:39 Same person but NOT the Same
19:13 Sue Carter
19:54 Childhood Photos & Old Movies
24:01 Inflammatory Disorders and AutoImmune Disorders
24:23 "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling"
25:05 Safety
26:47 Trauma
30:16 Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome
33:32 Co-Regulation enables Self-Regulation
36:15 Jaak Panksepp
40:28 End Organs
42:17 James Doty
43:18 Nancy Reagan
43:54 Hillary Clinton
44:40 “A Star is Born”
46:40 (insights on these additional conditions…)
50:47 John E Sarno
51:50 Vagal Health Practices
54:40 Continuity
55:11 The Future of Polyvagal Theory
57:32 Wrappers Around Our Core
59:46 Stephen Jenkinson
01:00:25 Attached and Authentic
01:02:42 Sow Seeds
01:04:42 Restructuring on "How"
01:05:54 Brilliance and Passion
Every Since Dr. Maté guided me to Dr. Porges' work (2012), I longed to witness a conversation between them on TH-cam. This upload delivered. How they shared and What they shared are in style of class, spirit uplifting, and humanity. Maté was a high school English teacher before he pursued his medical profession, he speaks as he would write.
Much as we are interested in Polyvagal Theory itself, let us also enjoy what was being shared in their conversation. This conversation is "PLAY" in its best demonstration.
Somehow this Maté & Porges conversation lead me to listen to Franz Krommer's Concerto for Two Clarinets E♭, Op.35
Thank you for creating an index for us! Excellent!!
Love your comment! Especially on play, great insight! ;)
Thank you
You are called Joy for this reading,thank you for your particular consideration and input .D.
thanks beautiful
"I want to discouple disautonomia from the disease. The disease itself is a threat stimulus to the Nervous System, but not part of the disease." THIS!!!! is so key to getting better. wonderfully put! Thanks for this Trauma talk xxxx
@32 minutes :)
Thank you for helping me understand who I am. I grew up by myself, literally. No one told me what to do. I felt free to walk around the town l lived. My grandmother worked long hours. It is a long story. As a baby, some neighbors took care of me. My memories start at the age of three.
Dr. Maté, in one of his conferences, made me realize my survival and the independent woman that l became.
Dr. Porges made me realize why l am a self-regulator person. I have discovered the world without having money; no fears, just learning and how others live
I am 75 years old woman with wonderful and unfortunate stories that fill my life with love and compassion for others
I am grateful that there are these bold courageous individuals that do step outside the box so that we can all evolve.....see the light, to look at the whole not the end. Amazing talk & series. Thank you to all of you involved, your work & discussion is very much appreciated. I will most certainly be sharing xx
Oh so many blessings. I knew there was something about connecting with others, but I have just finally understood why the cure to my migraines normally includes being with others. Just two days ago I had to teach for three hours, interestingly about compassionate listening and feedback. I had a massive headache but by the end of my work... I was almost pain free. My social connection was my medicine. Thank you so much for making this available to us all.
beautiful. i've had the same experience... headache pain going away through social connection.
Thank you, thankyou, thank you! Wonderful discussion, and for me, at age 82, I now want to do something, groupwork, perhaps, with younger and older people, experientially. Because of my husband's death and my own cancer experience, have lost courage and initiative. Truth be told, I never fully developed these, I now intend to work towards rebuilding them and putting the experience and insight to work. Thank you! (I live in Australia).
Johanna Blows
bless your heart
Where in Australia? Did you find a group?
Yes, a new day and a new way. Bless you. Your effort will yield rewards. :)
I agree - wonderful discussion. And wonderful you - with your great spirit. Best wishes in all your endeavours. 🦋
It is great to see two of the people whom I respect and admire the most together discussing trauma, how we react, how it affects us and why. Thank you so very much.
Dr.Stephen and Dr. Gabor, thanks both of you for sharing your knowledge with the world. What beautiful souls you two are!
We need more doctors like you two..
Such brilliant and important work. Humans barely understand what it means to be human. This work is helping us all find our way.
Spot on 🎯
Yes! ♥️♥️♥️
Polly want a Vagal? Yes, Yes, YESSSS!!! Marvelous conversation. Rich in resources, insights, and useful perspectives!
Two of my favourite people. I’ve watched young house surgeons come through their training as Doctors and marvelled when they had come through the system relatively unscathed. I specialised in Paediatrics when I went back nursing after having children. I had realised that the whole family needs support if a child was Ill. I found that I had to be so careful that I wasn’t rubbing up against my superiors and causing change that they didn’t agree with. I ended up creating a scenario that prepared the child for a traumatic procedure with the use of play specialists and on film that the whole family could watch. After I left they scrubbed the whole preparation, I suppose they thought it was a waste of time.
Today, even listening to a person in medical situations is almost non existent. No eye contact, no validation, Nothing. There is Failed Medical Systems because the Focus is PROFIT. Despite the high cost of insurance, it is difficult to receive needed care, tests, etc.
One of the best discussions on stress and polyvagal Theory I've ever heard
This has given me such important insights on the deep choice between authenticity and attachment as well as a veld excuse to dance as a complement to my breathing: anywhere anytime. What joy! Thank you x
I cannot express how utterly thrilled I feel to hear of the work going on at the Polyvagal Institute in regards to.integrating new understandings of being human into the education, medical and corporate structures... that was like a cherry on top to hear Dr.Porgess share that at end of an already great conversation. Thank you to Gabor and Stephen for sharing👍🏼👍🏼
I need to be treated kindly, gently and with respect.. as i see this need in me i can understand others need this also..
Truly two brilliant and exceptional minds in mental health and wellness. Thank you so much, such an honor and a privilege to listen to you both speaking together.
I could deal with childhood dysfunction and never had any physical health problems until my middle thirties. I married in my late twenties and started having children in my thirties. When I had children everything changed I could handle all life threw at me but when I had children it all changed. I was now their protector. I can handle whatever life had but I was going to protect them. I was sexually assaulted at thirty five by my husband's disabled nephew. I was left alone to babysit my four year old daughter and the nephew while the family went to a funeral. I believe I could have moved past this experience but the response I received from my husband was the nephew didn't know what he was doing. Husband didn't consider my feelings or how I was traumatized. Husband told me I should have been able to fight off a twelve year old boy. He's stronger than me and out weighed me by fifty pounds. For an hour and a half I was assaulted. My fight or flight kicked in and I knew I had to protect my four year old daughter. I have long hair and my hair was drenched in sweat like I'd just gotten out of the shower. I thought my husband would have a better understanding and have compassion towards me so I tried to show my husband what his nephew did to me and my husband couldn't handle what I was trying to imitate what had been done to me. He told me he didn't want to know and left the room. I had no idea this episode would be my breakdown. I began to have many problems. Irritable bowel syndrome, severe migraines. Finally my body shutdown. I could not walk and was bedridden for a year. I had no diagnosis from fourteen doctors. I just wanted my life back. I could no longer work, make home cooked meals for my family, no longer involved in my church as a teacher for children, caregiver for my elderly parents, be a wife or mother. My abilities were gone without pain medication and by the time I got a diagnosis it was to late. I was addicted to pain meds. Physical therapy helped some but I will never be the mother my children knew in their early childhood. My diagnosis was myofacial pelvic floor pain. Looking back it all makes sense. Your body can only handle so much before you will notice mild then severe physical problems.
First, thank so much for being so brave to share your painful experience. Second, we, as humans, need to work on our listening, understanding and patience skills in order to connect to orher humans and not just dismiss them quickly. I do think that your husband got triggered by your sharing of your experience. Obviously, it was too much for him to handle. Maybe, just maybe, he had not dealt with some of his traumas, and thus he reacted the way he did. We are all traumatized and many of us are afraid to even talk about it. We need to learn to talk about ANYTHING and not be ashamed or afraid that people around us, especially the closest ones, would judge us. This is a new way of life, and our brain needs to be rewired.
True, when the body says enough is enough...my psychosomatic issue is chronic fatigue due to lifelong stress.
Sorry you had to go through all of this but don’t give up, recovery is possible. There are so many marvelous success stories online and educational videos on mind body syndromes. Wish you all the best!
Fabulous. My second listen. I have found some very effective exercises for the Vagus nerve. I have had anxious gut for 14 years. No one I’ve seen could help me, including a neuropsychiatrist at UCSF.
Sukie Baxter has a TH-cam channel that shares these exercises. Pretty miraculous to have a calm gut & demeanor after 10 minutes of exercises.
thank you for the hint!
my third listen
Thank you for passing this alomg
Grateful to you all for making it simpler and clearly !
I am deeply impressed with the word 'non-duality', which HAS to be the only way forward, I also study with 'A Course in Miracles'.
The energy and enthusiasm in this conversation combined with such profound information is exhilarating to view. Thank you deeply for posting this for all to see.
How can physical therapists be more involved in these conversations? We treat people with all these conditions and much of the industry is still in the dark about this!
Incredible conversation - thank you thank you!
Just watched this film and loved it. Thanks for the amazing documentary and for your lifelong work Dr Mate
Re: 'social action' as a new treatment model: I had the following insight as I emerged from a large Buddhist monastery after a first visit, years ago:
"I had thought that, because I was suffering, I needed to be alone -- but it was being alone that was most of the suffering."
2 of my favourites brought together in discussion! Thank you
There is so much here to review again and again. I was particularly resonate with Stephen’s comments about watching old movies in part to revisit some of the cultural aspects portrayed in a time when he was growing up. Just recently I felt compelled to watch some of the the popular shows I watched during the 70’s and boy I didn’t even want to let my young daughter overhear it. The viewing of it shed light on how it was most impressive to numb down (not dumb down) as a human being especially in a case where both parents are fervently working to keep a roof over our head with little time to counteract it and the kids are left to their own devices and influences of it for long and consistent periods of time.
I went back & watched an important show from my youth "American Bandstand" & was blown away! I absolutely believed those kids were average teens when I watched as an adolescent with my teenage sisters! It was further insight into how much tel-lie-vision affected my perceptions about everything.
Magnificent. Two wonderful humans that inspire and heal so many people. Many thanks for your work and wisdom.
I practice functional health, have followed and love these two men for years and am so happy to see them in conversation!
Watch it, and then watch it again. It will prolong you life - I dare to promise you that!
Ditto! A powerful discussion.
I've watched many Gabor videos multiple times and learn something new about myself every time. Even if it's just reinforcing new lessons learnt to continue change. Porges is equally as valuable to do your inner work with.
Stephen's work is phenomenal.
Two utterly brilliant minds. Thank you for this fascinating discussion.
Thank you for giving words that explains what ancient Indians had discovered through Yoga .
Extracting information and making it contemporary is a sacred work ..thanks to the organizers for bringing these brave people together ❤ and adding your critical context !
Much gratitude
Everyone should listen and learn this ! ...Thank you!
Yes!
Such wonderful information. Thank you, Gabor Mate and Stephen Porges 🙏🏻💜
So interesting about ehlers danlos. I ended up with Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue after I got diagnosed with EDS. All the mind body and trauma work i had to help me heal cfs and fibro have left the ehlers danlos symptoms nonexistent. I never knew why, but this explains it. Amazing!
May I ask specifically what kinds of mind-body work you did? Somatic experiencing?
I was completely enthralled by this discussion and can't wait to learn more. I'm about to watch the movie now.
❤great conversation ❤absolutely loving it! Thank you for sharing this!
Great interview with brilliant minds. So grateful for this thought provoking topic❤
EXCELLENT! 👏 Thank you both and to you Dr Maté, please try and get the movie Wisdom of Trauma out so EVERYONE is able to see it.
Especially people who can't afford paying for it. I Feel it's that important and should be shown in high schools! I have been fortunate enough to watch it over ten times as my friend has a copy, it's riveting!!!
Many thanks🙏❤✌
"The Wisdom of Trauma"
Oh my goodness! I loved the whole video. I have Ehlers-Danlos and psychiatric issues. I did not know there was a relationship between them. Fascinating! I have two of Gabor’s books and I just ordered Porges’. I can’t wait to read it. Thank you so much for sharing this interview. I have hope that things can get better 😃♥️🇨🇦
There's definitely hope! I had years of mental health issues with EDS. I am much much better thanks to mind body tools. Hoping you are coming through it. ❤️❤️❤️
What a liberating conversation
Much gratitude 🙏 ✨️ 🙌 ❤️
Yummy! What a wonderful interview! Thank you so much for the opportunity to enjoy this conversation. I'm excited where it's going and I know i'll be adding it more and more into my work with massage therapy.
Polyvagal informed!!! "Treat people like they're human beings"...music to my ears!!!!!
Thank you for this passionate, informative, and integrative discussion
Absolutely brilliant video of fantastic minds, sharing their insight in the most humble, simplest psychology of how human nature in its many forms, could interact for the highest good for all
Deeply grateful to had the opportunity to hear the coming together of what you have both shared in this video
Thank you!
Absolutely incredible conversation. Like, wow.
Thank you so much for this, I loved it!! I am a natural therapist and a yoga teacher, so all this amazing information and knowledge went straight into my heart. This is my approach to my work, too
I would to thank to all who helped conect this two amaizing people in their understanding. Especially dr Porgess. I love Gabor, but in this conversation he was the curiosity witness asking questions
It is comforting to know that my body can learn to feel safe again. Is there a hard way to do this in the case of preterm birth, suffocation and incubator trauma? Since covid, he doesn’t let go of some old bodily sensations about these and panics.
Have you tried craniosacral therapy? It works on regulating the nervous system and apparently it is great for babies and kids...
Yes, I agree about Craniosacral Therapy - it’s very gentle. In addition, touch your child as much as possible by hugging, rocking in your lap, and engage in imaginary play. Let the child play with simple hand made toys. Do not sit the child in front of TV, except for just 1/2 hour a day. It’s best to talk to a child, play, laugh, create a very safe and happy atmosphere. Plan ahead. Talk to other successful parents.... and so on. Blessings for your child 👶
@@magdaplugowska)
thanks :-)
Incredible talk. What a treat! 🔥
This was such a wonderful discussion
Fantastic, Sean
I have huge respect for gabor mate 👏
i think about those psychoanalytic providers who believe in being “blank slates”’showing no facial expression to their patients and how potentially triggering this could be to patients who are wired to read facial cues for safety and how activating this alone could be to their attachments systems and how this alone could influence the entirety of treatment… then the patient gets pathologized instead of recognizing that this could be a normal response to a flat expression that gives no safety cues.
Very valuable, thank you.
I think it’s difficult, and maybe does this conversation a disservice to use this format. People must find it slightly nerve wracking to not only attempt to have a conversation knowing an audience is listening and watching, but to fear that dreaded dead air.
Would it maybe help to have a conversation over a bottle of wine, in front of a nice fireplace, (privately)and then edit it , so your communication is relaxed, you have time to collect your thoughts, and what the speakers really want to communicate can be found and presented to those wishing to learn? Just a thought.
Also, it has to be impossible to grow up in a family which is not dysfunctional, and to never be traumatized. So we are all carrying around trauma and dysfunction. Our parents did, and our children will. Especially in the climate of fear we live in. Especially on social media, where natural diffusers like humour rarely work, and where people tend to be defensive?
On healthy societies, I keep thinking of a piece of film I saw about a small tribe. Because all members are needed and can’t be wasted for the tribe to survive, they have this ritual. When one member of the tribe is troubled, they all sit down on the earth, in a circle. They face inward and have their legs stretched out in front of them, so every person’s foot is touching the foot of the next person. The member with the problem speaks up, then that tribe stays connected to each other and to the earth, and together they address the problem, and come up with a solution. I thought it was beautiful. BTW, they wore almost no clothing, comfortable to live their lives without hiding in clothes.
Absolutely agreed on your point about dysfunctional families. By definition, we all are traumatized. The important point is to recognize that ..
Acceptable idea or not, I have known families who did not pass on trauma to their children. Only a few, but real. Until I knew these families - and I mean I was involved closely in their lives - I didn't believe such relationships were possible This does not include my own family or my personal experience, quite the opposite. So I do know the difference between a family filled with love, joy and kindness and the way most families manipulate their children.
I spent a great deal of time at a clothing optional resort close to my home most of 2020. It was one of the only places that didn't restrict interaction. Nudity wasn't required but was practiced to an extent by all members. Lots more old & imperfect bodies at these places. I find them more accepting, more physically affectionate (not in a weird way) & more neighborly/helpful as a group.
gabor always love the humility that comes from your living
Brilliant, food for the soul
Brilliant. Very informative.
"Sageness... needed, nourishing, noble! Wopila."
"I carry meaning. I care for family. I care for society. I care for environment, all life. I care for their future. I cannot just live for I. I came to be, because of what came before. And thus, I am now, for what will be -- meaningfully."
"In taking care of each other, we affirm our human nature, our collective strength and wholeness, our societal and ecological stewardship, our future. This is our soul.. our sole raison d'etre."
~ Paul Jung
Deeply appreciate your expressing this. Deeply resonate.
My well being does not hinge on someone else's "acceptance" of me. I am responsible for my OWN self-acceptance.
Focusing on the problem/trauma makes me feel sick/bad. I am looking for the solution. Perception is bad for me. Creativity is good. Consciousness is the domain of the ego and its part of the problem. Consciousness is for experiencing consciously life, not for making decision's .
Who also comes to mind as I listen to this wonderful conversation and the direction that these 'bold' people are attempting to take their 'discoveries' -- is Ron Kurtz, founder of Hakomi therapy and the Refined Hakomi approach. (And of course also Dick Schwartz and his work with IFS...for the individual and how his powerful spirit, approach, ideas and techniques might reverberate in society. Ditto the work of Peter Levine and attachment work of Diane Poole Heller, and others.)
Ron Kurtz, with Hector Prestera wrote, in 1994, the book 'The Body Reveals'. Ron brought forward the non-pathologizing approach that 'applied' Taoist and Buddhist wisdom and somatic and 'mindfulness' techniques - along with neuroscience and 'systems-thinking' approaches; he introduced concepts around paradoxical Taoist expressions like 'the best leader follows....' and applied them to 'following the natural course' and facilitating a discovering and healing journey for one interested in self-study (aka a client or patient) by tuning into somatic cues, making room for what he called 'the adaptive unconscious' to come forward into consciousness - with safety and attunement - for the self-studier to EXPERIENCE in a safe space and a 'compassionate witness', to understand the co-regulation (and almost energetic dancing) involved.
So much of what Bessel van der Kolk ('The Body Keeps The Score') and his followers and colleagues, and people like Pat Ogden and Janina Fischer and others seem to resonate with and extend from there.
Bless this wonderful discussion and the memory, humor, playfulness, compassionate expression and all -- and the boldness of a beloved mentor in Ron Kurtz. And the many others who respond with such feeling and passion (and compassion) to suffering in others, and the extent to which they also are share to move in 'preventative' directions.
Just for extra fun, lots of folks who live with Ehlos Danler's are also on the spectrum. Good times.
Wow! I really enjoy every word, thank you very much.
Hugely important work.
Hello and thanks for the video. I have experienced trauma like car accidents as a kid. I have struggled with my mental/emotional health as a adult and think it's related. Can SSRI medication help with these types of issues. Thanks.
The brain has plasticity, when you learn to give yourself the love you need NOW the past's power over you dissolves over time
Hugs are medicine
What about people who have learned how to fake 'acceptable' and 'pleasant' affect?
Have you thought about psychedelic mushrooms?? I have complex regional pain syndrome, but I have high hopes in your theory, I am wondering if microdose is something that will make that transition easier
Chiropractic was founded in 1895 based on disregulation of the nervous system, and why the “re-tuning” or adjustment allowed the innate wisdom and healing to occur. Chiropractor’s are really nervous system doctors 🙏🏻
YES. but the problem is that the outcomes aren't always the same, plus the pains come back. but yeah I agree C is so good. these people talk about recovering from trauma but dont say what about people with chronic pain who dont have the energy and any support to have those interactions they speak about helping with co-regulation ... I totally agree but this is often useful for people with resources (even very little) and plus not having much pain.
Thank you so much for this, where can I find the documentary, anyone? Thank you in advance.
www.TheWisdomOfTrauma.com
Thank you ♥
The subtitle says " Wisdom of Trauma - Talk on Trauma Series Part 2 ". Where is part 1?
This changed me. Thanks 😊
Having politicians and journalists making us fearful of one another does not help either. Fear is a great tool of control
I was thinking the same. Choose what we listen, read and watch.
I completely agree but people should be able to pick up on that stuff you know what I mean it's just kind of an instinctual thing
Wow.. I thought I have seen it all. I just found out I just knew so little..
Thank you so much. 🥰❤️🙏🏻💎
Thank you!❤️
Awesome
I haven't seen this but really liked the trailer.
I am 60 and have Ehlers Danlos and dysautonomia. I wonder how I could become a part of Stphen Porges study? Is there a way to contact him? Thank you, this is fascinating. If I could regulate my autonomic system better, I know I would not have half the pain I am dealing with.
you might be interessted to check out ANS (autonomic nervous system) rewire by Dan Neuffer. He made the programme for Fibromialgia and Chronic fatigue, ....but listening to Gabor and Steven...it may be for other conditions, too!! I have FM for almost 20 years - downhill for all that time. Now this programme is getting me up up up, I am improving and also know why I'm not, when things are stagnant for a while! Not a quick fix, been at it for a year.
I healed my issues via plant medicine work w ayahuasca. My suggestion is 3 ceremonies over 5 days every 3-4 months for 3 or 4 years. Find a good facilitator and make sure you have a good integration program is crucial. It’s very powerful and useful medicine. I’m convinced it regulates the autonomous nervous system.
Look up nichole stachs on the cure for chronic pain and disease . And also dr shubinar unlearn your pain . Both of these are all about emotional trauma release with expressive writing and mindfulness . It's free. Join the fb group journal speak . I'm really serious there are thousands of people symthom free from fibromyalgia , dysautonomia , me/ cfs , other chronic pain conditions and imune diseases. It all came from the work of dr john sarno and gabor mate and him had a film together called( all the rage ). I've been doing it a month and I'm not completely better of pots and chronic pain and but over all I'm 70 percent better and I'm back at work after 2 years of nearly bedridden . Please look this up if you truly beleave that there is a mind body connection
I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING IF THERE'S ANY SORT OF CROSSOVER ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR THEORY AND BEING A HIGHLY SENSITIVE PERSON.🙏
HSP = traumatized person
We can be born more sensitive than other people so emotional wounds will be more likely and have a greater impact. Trauma is not the event but how the nervous system responds to the event, a sensitive person will be more affected by it than a less sensitive person would be.
Observing the effects of misidentified cause. Brain is an effect. Cause is held true feeling. Not the feeling you think you have the one you don’t know you have. Injury is in the Will which majorly effects the head. Also Body is an effect of the Will. So working with those two is endless. Also the Will/pure feeling has ears. The biggest ears. Btw Will is not the willpower but a pure feeling that doesn’t talk. Feelings don’t talk they express by feeling only which when trained to hear has a Voice. Voice of Unity. And this is hearing the VOICE which is the healer. Humans can’t heal without this Voice. Period. You will as you keep TRYING.
Wow, two legends.
Interesting and useful. Does childhood trauma has influence on sexual desires, addiction and orientation ?
Very much so.
Not so much on orientation, as far as abuse can't turn someone gay. Yes on desires/aversions, addiction, and internal programming of what is/is not okay.
By any chance any recommendable professional in Denmark with specific focus on alophecia.
Sincere thx
...this was truly a moving conversation...i am wandering what the title of the film is that is mentioned in the beginning of the talk...
www.TheWisdomofTrauma.com
beautiful.... thank you.
Gabor Mate🙏🏻❤️✨
Wonderful.
boah! refreshing!
Wow
used the same house painter first nation art is cool
Amazing
Waldorfducation was conceptioantinalized as anti trauma education.
❤