This is a 5 star video. I'm not a builder, I watch because I believe in building things well and the inventiveness of high performance building. The real future of building is solutions like this that are lower cost and realistic but also plug into the systems and teams that build houses today. We need to continue innovating and bringing the details of high performance builds to every day builds.
This is a great example of the correct way to runs ducts in a house. I eliminated the ducts and chose to do a Ductless, multi zone, Mini Split unit on my new house. It's been 5yrs in my new house and the Mini Split system is the best decision I ever made!! I only heat/cool the rooms I use and save a TON on energy. No ducts to clean and maintenance. Washable and Reusable air filters on each wall unit. I clean the coils and fan blades myself once a year. Super Easy system to maintain and use.
I also live in Colorado. We built our House in Southern Colorado with ICF in 2006. Full Basement with the added advantage with ICF that it is already insulated. Put in 9 foot ceilings to allow regular duct work to run in the basement ceilings including plans for future bedrooms and bathrooms. So yes all my duct runs are in conditioned space. I didn't know I was so ahead of the curve! Had the perimeter of the basement partially finished out with drywall and electrical outlets and temporary ceiling lights. I am just amazed what they are charging for new houses now. 450K/1800 SF = $250.00 a Square Foot Finished. Will be finishing off the Basement this year for total of 4200 SF living space. Unless you live in a wet climate or have a high water table a basement still makes economic sense Especially with something like ICF. Our Basement temperature is 72 degrees year round. I see a lot of the builder's here in our area are also going to Slab construction as well, to cut costs and mostly single story. He has a good idea, but our house has a heat pump, with a Steffes Thermal storage system for back up in the winter. Which I will be upgrading to a cold climate heat pump version this fall to reduce the need for the thermal storage unit. Has a Air Exchange unit. Had a Solar Hot water system put in for probably the additional cost of his duct work with a 120 Gallon exchange tank. Will heat all 120 gallons to 150-160 degrees on most days from late spring through early fall. Do like the idea of the heat pump water heater though. Thanks for a thought provoking video.
I’d love to see some retrofits. I’ve gotten into the home air quality and enclosure performance profession in the last few years and TONS of people need ventilation/dehumidifier retrofits!
Matt, great video alway thought it was crazy that all my AC equipment is in the attic that reaches a very high temperature during the summers here in North Texas.. Thanks for all the great content..
Who makes this duct/supply grille system? EDIT: Found it. “A RHEIA system is designed to supply the required airflow to each room of a home. A typical air distribution duct run delivers 35-45 CFM of air. Duct runs are added to a room until the required airflow is met. This airflow can be met with a supply duct pressure drop of 0.3-0.4 in wc, and a total external pressure of 0.7-0.8 in wc.”
One topic I'd like to see discussed on your channel is the use of unlined joist bays and wall cavities as cold air returns. It's very prevalent in the Midwest. Every HVAC contractor just says "well it will get caught by the filter", which is obviously absurd. I have been in very expensive homes around here that still rely on this practice and it needs to be put on blast.
Zip-R would be a waste of money since he’s insulating above the ceiling and then up and over the inverted soffits. I like the way you’re thinking though-looking for ways to innovate 😊.
this is a very cool idea. less work for the system to do with it being inside the conditioned space. seem like an alternative set up if there is no attic space to run the ducting
So basically run your ducts through the attic still. Run them closer together Then frame around them in attic . Then spray foam the heck out of the enclosure. Put vents from inside the in ceiling to make ducts conditioned. And yeah air handler too or put it inside house closet.
I don't see why they're running individual ducts instead of a trunk and branch system and insulating it the same way. Seems like there's a lot more wasted space, and flow restriction, with all those flex ducts
I would still recommend sealing bottom plate to keep pest out of the home in Georgia. Just Wondering what the blower door test after a few years of the home settling
That was one of the things I was wondering as well. It doesn't seem like the aeroseal would be a good long term air seal. I also wonder how long that chemical resides in the air afterwards. Can't be very healthy to breathe in. Overall I like this idea though, just would like less reliance on the aero seal and would rather see it sealed up with a thick bead of caulking that should have some longer term stretch to it.
This is a solution needed exclusively for bungalows on a slab. With a 2 story you could just run everything between floors using an open web floor truss. Or an insulated crawlspace under a traditional bungalow.
My next house will be over a crawlspace, but for effective ventilation we need vertical air movement. That means either the air enters the room through the ceiling and leaves near the floor, or vice versa - but if it's entering and leaving at the same height, you're trusting the 'throw' of your vent covers to do all the mixing for you.
That aerosolised caulk is very similar to how we seal cracks in earthen farm dams - add a compound to the water that is carried to wherever the water is leaking out, and anywhere the droplets of compound touch each other they bond to seal across the cracks. It won't seal big holes, but it's great for tiny leaks. Still, I'd like to see some safety data before releasing something like that into air that people are going to breathe. What happens when the micro-droplets of aerosolised caulk bond together inside someone's lungs?
This makes so much sense! I have a home built in the late 50's. I have inverter window units. My old house stays good and cool when in the mid 90's outside.
So you mean like we do it in Canada for, well, forever? Aerobarrier is great, for new builds. I priced it out for a house you live in, cost is very high due to all the work involved covering everything, or moving stuff out into a storage unit
I’m remodeling my 1959 house and found out it has exterior insulation foam. Brick outside, foam, then a type of gypsum nailed to the studs. Come up to Abilene to check it out.
i was thinking the same thing, like make a floor truss with a traditional truss on top; like you put in a floor truss to top your ceilings, deck that for air sealing, and then put all of your roof trusses on and insulate from there; am i missing something there? maybe the added cost of the additional floors trusses and the total decking, but it would be super easy to implement if you didn't have a BS expert for custom trusses;
Quite a few things to correct. Ducts are within the insulated envelope, not within the conditioned space. Definitely not the most energy efficient way to run duct, much higher pressure drop and will use more fan energy than traditional ductwork. Seems like a good application for a retrofit, but in this application you have plenty of room for hard ducted mains. You typically want to limit the extent of flex duct since it has a higher pressure drop. Being forced to use those cheap grilles is not great. Mechanical room within insulated envelope is nice, just need to confirm your heat gain in that space, depending on equipment.
Why not just build the house af oot and a half taller, Drywall then install another ceiling, a foot and a half down And have unlimited space to run all your ductwork. I built a commercial building like that, and it was super efficient.
That would be a lot more expensive than what Charlie is doing with the inverted soffits. The ripple effect of that extra foot and a half in a house would be significant as opposed to commercial construction where the typical means and methods of construction allow the incorporation of a ceiling chase much more economically. In fact, what you describe is standard practice in commercial construction.
@@supeerchoonThe majority are not and as for where else: basement, walls, soffits, reverse soffits, plenum truss, floor trusses, etc. or ductless or just convert to a conditioned attic or have them in a semi-conditioned/conditioned encapsulated crawlspace.
@@supeerchoon No, they are just installing insulation between the chase and the unconditioned attic. But since blown in insulation in this part of the country is R-40 but ducts are R-8, you get a lot of improvement, so the original commenter is missing the point of this video.
13:55 Heat pump water heater 3 inches from a heat pump air handler. Man, seems like it would be so easy to run another set of lines from the outside condenser to the water heater tank and not have to have all of the additional complexity of another heat pump WITH ITS EVAP & CONDENSING UNIT in the closet with the air handler.
@@noedengineer Yep. Did pretty well in Thermo I & II. That’s not what I was referring to. It’s the complexity of repeating whole the exact machine that drives the HVAC unit.
The heat pump water heater is an all in one package unit. When installed in mechanical closet, there is an exhaust to outside and fresh air intake piped to it.
Putting the furnace/air handler/evap coil in an HVAC closet in the conditioned seems like a good idea. But I have to wonder if It'smore cost effective to install radiant barrier to get attic temps lower and use conventional R8 flex ducts cover with 2" closed cell spray foam.
If it is insulated and air sealed properly it should be fine. The other potential issue is putting the supply and return ducts on the same level. They need to be apart from each other to get good mixing of air in the rooms.
would it be possible to achieve a similar result by raising the roof 8 or 12 inches and doing kind of a drop ceiling? that seems like less back-and-forth between trades and engineers, and a cheaper roof truss system
The ripple effects from such an approach in home construction would be significant. Looks like Charlie has it pretty dialed in to be as cost-effective as possible.
Europe is really ahead of the USA in energy efficiency as they have expensive energy vs cheap energy in USA. That will be changing as energy costs will continue to increase. USA was a nation of supersizing now downsizing. I lived in Hawaii where electricity was 40 cents/kwh. One reason Hawaii Over 30% renewables as private residential rooftop solar. The government or electric company are happy with the status quo.
Europe offers IR radiant heaters in many Rooms to supplement heat as very energy efficient. These IR glass or metal panels can be disguised as a mirror, ceiling or wall art panel or painting with underlying IR. No noise
I mean they were having proper Manual J, S, T, D done so presumably they had it all calculated right plus I think he said its will be commissioned to test all of that so it should be correct.
True, but with more balancing available, increasing air flow near glass and reducing away from it should provide a more even and comfortable environment. Figuring where to place the ducts is where the value lies.
I am thinking it'd be much better to insulate exterior of roof, which would allow simpler (rigid) distribution. You could elevate the handler horizontally with drop ceiling and make everything more serviceable. Don't really get the erv being in the garage. Bottom line is that the mechanical room is too small, and ducting is overly complicated and uninsulated, which on its own wouldn't pass code in some jurisdictions
@@Ivebeenaroundyouknow The cost of exterior insulation is many times more expensive than blown-in insulation. They didn't show the ducting insulation, because it blown in at a later stage as done with unconditioned attics. They really should have shown that detail on the finished off house, on how they got the insulation to stay around the "inverted soffit". The advantage of this system is that it is more cost efficient for the insulation. The disadvantage is that with conventional techniques this would be really hard to air seal, but they get around that by using the aerosolized caulking. For me, planning on doing a small home where I do the labor myself, I'm going with monopoly framing and exterior insulation.
@richdobbs6595 I am with you, doing a new build myself. Exterior insulation w/Monopoly Framing seems unbeatable. I am going with steel stud framing with 5 inches of insulation inbedded for exterior walls (prefab 4x10 sheets). Still trying to figure out best roof details for a low slope roof. I do like this HVAC distribution solution for balance and reduced needs for soffits. I would not do these vents in the walls though, all ceiling mounted.
@@Ivebeenaroundyouknow For me, I'm going with a 5:12 pitch which is moderate. Since the house is off grid and I'm building it in phases, I'm going with a mini split heat pump for cooling. For heating design conditions going with wood stoves and propane hydronic heating. The mini split will reduce fuel consumption in the the shoulder seasons, but doesn't do anything for the design conditions, since Northern Idaho is too cloudy to produce solar power for the design winter storm.
Pretty sure because of the dry air Utah has some of the worse HVAC guy in the nation. They get away with sloppy work and horrible duct work that would cause nightmares in humid areas.
Why would they use a single large rigid duct then T off of it for the room returns? If these ducts ever need to be clean, it's going to be a nightmare.
I think it would make more sense to keep the trusses normal, and then build up cripple walls to allow the blown in insulation to completely enclose the ducts. With the cost of blown in insulation, you could have 4 feet of insulation in an attic. With this scenario, you would have to do an excellent job of sealing the ducts, but lots of high end builders are already doing it, and if this practice became common, you could get better connections between ducts.
Sometimes the term hot water heater is used to refer to domestic hot water as opposed to water that’s heated for another purpose (e.g. hydronic heating systems). Most of the time it’s just an unnecessary redundancy, however. Okay, I’m headed over to the ATM machine to get some cash now. Later.
Because he’s already insulating at the ceiling plane and then up and over the inverted soffits. Zip-R would be redundant. I like the way you’re thinking though.
You don’t build a house with the assumption it will be gut in the future. You build it to function well as built. Those chases should make future work easier cuz the insulation won’t be disturbed if you change/ replace something. Everything is protected.
@@rpvitiello Matt specifically talks often about wanting to build houses with ease of future remodeling in mind. The chases may help but it's more likely they will make it more difficult since everything is so custom fit to exactly how it is built today. Not a bad thing, but it's not all roses either.
The builder probably came from a multifamily background. MF builders have been utilizing fur-downs in design for this very same reason for decades (albeit without the air sealing component). How is Charlie insulating the inverted soffit/ pop-up chase? The trusses are framed on the 1 1/2” and OSB is fastened to that. How do you friction fit FG Batt to a 1 1/2” hot wall? Attic Blow won’t stay at depth on top of the inverted soffit without an insulation dam.
Don’t see how this is an advantage over a trunk and branch system. Seems like it uses way more material and would be much more work and $$. I also see another advantage of a sealed crawl vs a slab foundation.
Puts in a thousand mini ducts through expensive insulated truss troughs and then brings the air back via a couple of main returns going through the hot attic. Okie dokie.
@@245HVAC It doesn't make sense to run those little ducts all the way back to the furnace, from a pressure drop point of view. But we are a society driven by codes designed by industry segments that are trying to optimize parts of the system for their own benefits. In a rational world, we might have OSB ducts with heat triggered fire extinguishers. The last couple of feet could be Rheia ducts.
Why are these "credits" and "rebates" scams provided to builders or installers? It is the occupant who is ultimately paying the for the equipment and the labor.
Well, the overall effect of these systems is to transfer money from the less well off to better off. The builders and owners of HVAC installation companies and the occupants of purchased homes are all better off than the average, so they accomplish their purpose. My guess is to make it harder for occupant-builders to get the credit. But it might have to do with lobbying and general politics.
Completely baffling why Texass builds most houses on slabs. You put in a sealed crawl space you can put all your hvac duct work, plumbing, etc in an easy access temp stable non conditioned space.
@@GregariousAntithesis I think you need to work on communication. So, you are posting an almost random comment that is not related to the video, but you happen to live in the location where the video applies to? Because the presenter lives in Texas?
@ i live in texas now and my house has a crawl space. I had no idea the video was in GJ. It still makes no sense why texans build on slabs so they have to resort to putting, hvac in the attic which then requires turning the attic into a living space to make it effcient. Crawl space stays a relative constant temp and doesnt require all that insulation etc. plus you have to bury plumbing in the slab which is moronic, when it fails you have to excavate a concrete floor. Absolutely far more expensive and moronic design.
Ok, Mat, I live in Wisconsin, here's kinda a stupid question or maybe just a flipping Ridiculous question, so after see this and having the HVAC not up in the attic space, on a conventional unit, what if one would install a Mini split in a mechanical room other than having the outside unit outside, whats the set back other than running hot air in that room or maybe hook it up to and exhaust fan to the outside when that fan kicks on, it would be in climate control environment
Not a fan of this method. Don't like the non continuous air barrier. Don't like the complexity. Don't like relying on spray foam for the OSB. Don't like like the reliance on the aero spray sealant. Don't like the hidden flex ducts. Don't like the super complex trusses. Don't like all the penetrations I saw either. Would rather have a flat, taped OSB ceiling with a firred down service cavity. I think it would be cheaper and simpler.
talk about burying the lede... just casually mentioned that doing it this way makes the trusses way more expensive. Yes it sucks to have ducts going through a hot attic, but insulated ducting exists. It's way cheaper to put in super-insulated ducts than it is to get custom trusses with expensive extra webbing.
Yeah, especially since the truss designs they are coming up with look really sucky. Even if you go with this approach, you could fit the soffits into the existing web structure, and then build cripple walls to allow you to blow in insulation around the soffits.
@@sladeoriginal It is within the insulation envelop of the building. There isn't an moisture driving into the cavity. So it will stay close the temperature of the house and won't present surfaces on which condensation will occur. Even though the temperature isn't being actively controlled it will be warm enough that this is considered a partially conditioned space. Either you don't understand what is being shown to you, or you don't understand what is meant by conditioning.
@@sladeoriginal No, this is the common understanding. But apparently you don't get it, and made an ignorant comment. But double down on it. I get that too.
@@Iconic_Scarab I think you've drank the Koolaid. Do closets really need specific ventilation? Do you need continuous ventilation by code, or should we just encourage people to live in places where you can open windows for significant portions of the day? I guess I would be more sympathetic if HVAC equipment was more of a free market in the USA. But there seems like there is always some component that is hugely overpriced compared to function. Heat pumps way more expensive than air conditioners even though they share 95% of the same equipment. Ground loop heat pumps providing air condition, when you could just directly use ground loop cooling or swamp coolers. HRVs that really seem overpriced compared to the basic functionality. My pet peeve right this minute is government mandated design requirements that route through an advocacy group for an industry segment that then sell their codes and approve software! But I'm just starting here, so maybe I'm missing something.
@@richdobbs6595HRV's & ERV's provide alot of value in filtering outside air and reducing the costs of heating and cooling on the exchange. I think as you dig in more, you will find the cost/value relationship is a worthwhile component to your long term costs and comfort.
How much do you have to pay for a video like this. I know this builder and he isn't a good builder by any stretch of the imagination. He considers a signed contract only valid if it benefits him. He's a typical rich kid that took over his daddies company and operates on his families money to build houses and develope land. His wife considered herself a designer and thier houses always sat a long time because of it. Every year they would do a parade of homes house and it would be 6 months later when it would sell when most of the others were sold before the show.
Yes please more content like this. Realistic ways most of us can live in a comfortable energy efficient home
This is a 5 star video. I'm not a builder, I watch because I believe in building things well and the inventiveness of high performance building. The real future of building is solutions like this that are lower cost and realistic but also plug into the systems and teams that build houses today. We need to continue innovating and bringing the details of high performance builds to every day builds.
Absolutely awesome! Thanks for highlighting these innovative builders who are constructing high performance homes on a reasonable budget.
This is a great example of the correct way to runs ducts in a house. I eliminated the ducts and chose to do a Ductless, multi zone, Mini Split unit on my new house. It's been 5yrs in my new house and the Mini Split system is the best decision I ever made!! I only heat/cool the rooms I use and save a TON on energy. No ducts to clean and maintenance. Washable and Reusable air filters on each wall unit. I clean the coils and fan blades myself once a year. Super Easy system to maintain and use.
4:43 masterstroke. Always nice to see competent & smart people in action :)
I also live in Colorado. We built our House in Southern Colorado with ICF in 2006. Full Basement with the added advantage with ICF that it is already insulated. Put in 9 foot ceilings to allow regular duct work to run in the basement ceilings including plans for future bedrooms and bathrooms. So yes all my duct runs are in conditioned space. I didn't know I was so ahead of the curve! Had the perimeter of the basement partially finished out with drywall and electrical outlets and temporary ceiling lights. I am just amazed what they are charging for new houses now. 450K/1800 SF = $250.00 a Square Foot Finished. Will be finishing off the Basement this year for total of 4200 SF living space. Unless you live in a wet climate or have a high water table a basement still makes economic sense Especially with something like ICF. Our Basement temperature is 72 degrees year round. I see a lot of the builder's here in our area are also going to Slab construction as well, to cut costs and mostly single story. He has a good idea, but our house has a heat pump, with a Steffes Thermal storage system for back up in the winter. Which I will be upgrading to a cold climate heat pump version this fall to reduce the need for the thermal storage unit. Has a Air Exchange unit. Had a Solar Hot water system put in for probably the additional cost of his duct work with a 120 Gallon exchange tank. Will heat all 120 gallons to 150-160 degrees on most days from late spring through early fall. Do like the idea of the heat pump water heater though. Thanks for a thought provoking video.
I’d love to see some retrofits. I’ve gotten into the home air quality and enclosure performance profession in the last few years and TONS of people need ventilation/dehumidifier retrofits!
I'm making my own ducts in my 35 yr old house. no more ducts in the hot attic. I'm using a spare bathroom window for the ac.
Matt, great video alway thought it was crazy that all my AC equipment is in the attic that reaches a very high temperature during the summers here in North Texas.. Thanks for all the great content..
Who makes this duct/supply grille system?
EDIT: Found it.
“A RHEIA system is designed to supply the required airflow to each room of a home. A typical air distribution duct run delivers 35-45 CFM of air. Duct runs are added to a room until the required airflow is met. This airflow can be met with a supply duct pressure drop of 0.3-0.4 in wc, and a total external pressure of 0.7-0.8 in wc.”
Fascinaring ! I wish we'd built our House new !!
One topic I'd like to see discussed on your channel is the use of unlined joist bays and wall cavities as cold air returns. It's very prevalent in the Midwest. Every HVAC contractor just says "well it will get caught by the filter", which is obviously absurd. I have been in very expensive homes around here that still rely on this practice and it needs to be put on blast.
Building my house now...going to share this with the contractor
Good luck with that
Stole the words right out of my mouth.
Great job, passing the knowledge on!
Impressive. Thanks for sharing.
love the idea of this inverted Truss , especially if it was boxed in with some Zip-R
Or better yet, TimberBoard
Zip-R would be a waste of money since he’s insulating above the ceiling and then up and over the inverted soffits. I like the way you’re thinking though-looking for ways to innovate 😊.
Looks great!
VERY impressive!!
Great stuff!!
Brilliant !
this is a very cool idea. less work for the system to do with it being inside the conditioned space. seem like an alternative set up if there is no attic space to run the ducting
So basically run your ducts through the attic still. Run them closer together
Then frame around them in attic . Then spray foam the heck out of the enclosure. Put vents from inside the in ceiling to make ducts conditioned. And yeah air handler too or put it inside house closet.
I don't see why they're running individual ducts instead of a trunk and branch system and insulating it the same way. Seems like there's a lot more wasted space, and flow restriction, with all those flex ducts
@@GrimResistance because it doesnt take any skill to run flex duct vs trunk &branch,,
We need builders like this in Chicago
We have a ton!! A quick google/reddit search will bring them up
The ductwork is interesting. It's the "Zehnder" of HVAC 🤔
It's the PEX of Hvac!!
Amazing! why not put all other services through these as well?
Need you to focus on some builders, etc. in Dallas Fort Worth, TX!
Love it
I would still recommend sealing bottom plate to keep pest out of the home in Georgia. Just Wondering what the blower door test after a few years of the home settling
That was one of the things I was wondering as well. It doesn't seem like the aeroseal would be a good long term air seal.
I also wonder how long that chemical resides in the air afterwards. Can't be very healthy to breathe in.
Overall I like this idea though, just would like less reliance on the aero seal and would rather see it sealed up with a thick bead of caulking that should have some longer term stretch to it.
This is a solution needed exclusively for bungalows on a slab. With a 2 story you could just run everything between floors using an open web floor truss. Or an insulated crawlspace under a traditional bungalow.
My next house will be over a crawlspace, but for effective ventilation we need vertical air movement. That means either the air enters the room through the ceiling and leaves near the floor, or vice versa - but if it's entering and leaving at the same height, you're trusting the 'throw' of your vent covers to do all the mixing for you.
That aerosolised caulk is very similar to how we seal cracks in earthen farm dams - add a compound to the water that is carried to wherever the water is leaking out, and anywhere the droplets of compound touch each other they bond to seal across the cracks. It won't seal big holes, but it's great for tiny leaks.
Still, I'd like to see some safety data before releasing something like that into air that people are going to breathe. What happens when the micro-droplets of aerosolised caulk bond together inside someone's lungs?
How can we retrofit our older home with something approaching the ducting system ?
minisplits
This makes so much sense! I have a home built in the late 50's. I have inverter window units. My old house stays good and cool when in the mid 90's outside.
22222222 is a great day @@spacecadet286:10 😮😢😅😅33😅33😮33😅3556
So you mean like we do it in Canada for, well, forever? Aerobarrier is great, for new builds. I priced it out for a house you live in, cost is very high due to all the work involved covering everything, or moving stuff out into a storage unit
I’m remodeling my 1959 house and found out it has exterior insulation foam. Brick outside, foam, then a type of gypsum nailed to the studs. Come up to Abilene to check it out.
Going bananas at 2:35!
I guess Matt has finally come to terms with flex duct.
If it’s like the Zhender duct system, it’s much more rigid than flex duct.
Seems like a lot of work for a recessed duct. Wouldn't it be more efficient to have two floors and a floor truss system?
i was thinking the same thing, like make a floor truss with a traditional truss on top; like you put in a floor truss to top your ceilings, deck that for air sealing, and then put all of your roof trusses on and insulate from there;
am i missing something there? maybe the added cost of the additional floors trusses and the total decking, but it would be super easy to implement if you didn't have a BS expert for custom trusses;
@@williamdavies1977seems like a lot of extra work and labor vs just engineering the soffit in the single truss.
Quite a few things to correct. Ducts are within the insulated envelope, not within the conditioned space. Definitely not the most energy efficient way to run duct, much higher pressure drop and will use more fan energy than traditional ductwork. Seems like a good application for a retrofit, but in this application you have plenty of room for hard ducted mains. You typically want to limit the extent of flex duct since it has a higher pressure drop. Being forced to use those cheap grilles is not great. Mechanical room within insulated envelope is nice, just need to confirm your heat gain in that space, depending on equipment.
HP water heater helps throwing off cool air in the mechanical room. Looks like a service nightmare though.
Why not just build the house af oot and a half taller, Drywall then install another ceiling, a foot and a half down And have unlimited space to run all your ductwork. I built a commercial building like that, and it was super efficient.
That would be a lot more expensive than what Charlie is doing with the inverted soffits. The ripple effect of that extra foot and a half in a house would be significant as opposed to commercial construction where the typical means and methods of construction allow the incorporation of a ceiling chase much more economically. In fact, what you describe is standard practice in commercial construction.
He's essentially doing the same but just in a smaller run instead of going 12 foot vaulted to 10 and having all the ducts inside.
the ac condensate line needs to have a vent after the p trap.
So... extra cost in trusses and instalation of the plywood in inverted soffit... or just monopoly frame it? Cost comparison would be nice.
Get those ducts out of the hot attic!!!! Drops the load on the ducts smaller ac by 1/2 ton - 1 ton
Attic is part of conditioned space. Where would you put ducts otherwise?
@@supeerchoon 99% of houses in the US do not have conditioned attics. Expensive to insulate.
@@supeerchoonThe majority are not and as for where else: basement, walls, soffits, reverse soffits, plenum truss, floor trusses, etc. or ductless or just convert to a conditioned attic or have them in a semi-conditioned/conditioned encapsulated crawlspace.
@@supeerchoon No, they are just installing insulation between the chase and the unconditioned attic. But since blown in insulation in this part of the country is R-40 but ducts are R-8, you get a lot of improvement, so the original commenter is missing the point of this video.
Why does the ERV need to sit outside of that closet? space? planning?
13:55 Heat pump water heater 3 inches from a heat pump air handler. Man, seems like it would be so easy to run another set of lines from the outside condenser to the water heater tank and not have to have all of the additional complexity of another heat pump WITH ITS EVAP & CONDENSING UNIT in the closet with the air handler.
The heat pump water heater actually cools the closet. I see this in commercial application regularly.
@@noedengineer Yep. Did pretty well in Thermo I & II. That’s not what I was referring to. It’s the complexity of repeating whole the exact machine that drives the HVAC unit.
The heat pump water heater is an all in one package unit. When installed in mechanical closet, there is an exhaust to outside and fresh air intake piped to it.
@@noedengineerthe closet is too small for aclotvof reasons, including deriving full benefit of air flow and servicability
Would it be possible to retrofit this into an existing truss system?
What's the model on that heat pump? I'm having a hard time finding anything that doesn't require 750 cubic feet or more.
Putting the furnace/air handler/evap coil in an HVAC closet in the conditioned seems like a good idea. But I have to wonder if It'smore cost effective to install radiant barrier to get attic temps lower and use conventional R8 flex ducts cover with 2" closed cell spray foam.
So I'm wondering if the HVAC guy also installed the ducting?
Yes. Monarch HVAC also did the installation.
Heating vents come from the ceiling? How efficient is that?
If it is insulated and air sealed properly it should be fine.
The other potential issue is putting the supply and return ducts on the same level.
They need to be apart from each other to get good mixing of air in the rooms.
would it be possible to achieve a similar result by raising the roof 8 or 12 inches and doing kind of a drop ceiling? that seems like less back-and-forth between trades and engineers, and a cheaper roof truss system
The ripple effects from such an approach in home construction would be significant. Looks like Charlie has it pretty dialed in to be as cost-effective as possible.
@MichaelJ674 Correct. However, if you were planning on doing 9-10 ft ceilings this install would be more expensive and less efficient I think.
Europe is really ahead of the USA in energy efficiency as they have expensive energy vs cheap energy in USA. That will be changing as energy costs will continue to increase. USA was a nation of supersizing now downsizing. I lived in Hawaii where electricity was 40 cents/kwh. One reason Hawaii
Over 30% renewables as private residential rooftop solar. The government or electric company are happy with the status quo.
Europe offers IR radiant heaters in many
Rooms to supplement heat as very energy efficient. These IR glass or metal panels can be disguised as a mirror, ceiling or wall art panel or painting with underlying IR. No noise
Seems like a lot of pressure drop since the main seems far away.
That was my thought also. How much flow could you get through a small duct over that long a distance.
I mean they were having proper Manual J, S, T, D done so presumably they had it all calculated right plus I think he said its will be commissioned to test all of that so it should be correct.
True, but with more balancing available, increasing air flow near glass and reducing away from it should provide a more even and comfortable environment. Figuring where to place the ducts is where the value lies.
Is this really better than just insulating the roof?
I am thinking it'd be much better to insulate exterior of roof, which would allow simpler (rigid) distribution. You could elevate the handler horizontally with drop ceiling and make everything more serviceable. Don't really get the erv being in the garage. Bottom line is that the mechanical room is too small, and ducting is overly complicated and uninsulated, which on its own wouldn't pass code in some jurisdictions
@@Ivebeenaroundyouknow The cost of exterior insulation is many times more expensive than blown-in insulation. They didn't show the ducting insulation, because it blown in at a later stage as done with unconditioned attics. They really should have shown that detail on the finished off house, on how they got the insulation to stay around the "inverted soffit". The advantage of this system is that it is more cost efficient for the insulation. The disadvantage is that with conventional techniques this would be really hard to air seal, but they get around that by using the aerosolized caulking. For me, planning on doing a small home where I do the labor myself, I'm going with monopoly framing and exterior insulation.
@richdobbs6595 I am with you, doing a new build myself. Exterior insulation w/Monopoly Framing seems unbeatable. I am going with steel stud framing with 5 inches of insulation inbedded for exterior walls (prefab 4x10 sheets). Still trying to figure out best roof details for a low slope roof. I do like this HVAC distribution solution for balance and reduced needs for soffits. I would not do these vents in the walls though, all ceiling mounted.
@@Ivebeenaroundyouknow For me, I'm going with a 5:12 pitch which is moderate. Since the house is off grid and I'm building it in phases, I'm going with a mini split heat pump for cooling. For heating design conditions going with wood stoves and propane hydronic heating. The mini split will reduce fuel consumption in the the shoulder seasons, but doesn't do anything for the design conditions, since Northern Idaho is too cloudy to produce solar power for the design winter storm.
Hello ANY builder in Southern Utah…are you watching?
Pretty sure because of the dry air Utah has some of the worse HVAC guy in the nation. They get away with sloppy work and horrible duct work that would cause nightmares in humid areas.
My house has 14 foot ceilings. I would rather 13 or 12 foot ceilings for ductwork part of home living space. Makes sense even retrofitting
Five star pun!
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
Man! Are you here in Colorado?
Yes, BOA builders is out of grand Junction Colorado
Nice
Why would they use a single large rigid duct then T off of it for the room returns? If these ducts ever need to be clean, it's going to be a nightmare.
good point !!,,
Is the load calculation done with open doors or closed. Don’t doors affect the air flow and then you don’t hit the numbers you are targeting
Wouldn't it be easier to just keep the trusses normal, just mount them 2 feet higher, then drop the ceiling so there's void to run the ducts?
I think it would make more sense to keep the trusses normal, and then build up cripple walls to allow the blown in insulation to completely enclose the ducts. With the cost of blown in insulation, you could have 4 feet of insulation in an attic. With this scenario, you would have to do an excellent job of sealing the ducts, but lots of high end builders are already doing it, and if this practice became common, you could get better connections between ducts.
He said Hot Water Heater twice.
I'm not a builder, just a homeowner enthusiast. That killed me. It's just one of my random pet peeves.
@@Behine.DeChilis He actually said it a third time when they went to the other house. LOL
Sometimes the term hot water heater is used to refer to domestic hot water as opposed to water that’s heated for another purpose (e.g. hydronic heating systems). Most of the time it’s just an unnecessary redundancy, however. Okay, I’m headed over to the ATM machine to get some cash now. Later.
@@MichaelJ674 In hospitals, they always document "Past Medical History". I guess to distinguish from "Future Medical History"? 🤣
why .. heat hot water??? George Carlin
Why not line those inverted trays with zipR
Because he’s already insulating at the ceiling plane and then up and over the inverted soffits. Zip-R would be redundant. I like the way you’re thinking though.
Really cool but two sides to every story... remodeling or any future changes to the system could be a nightmare.
Mini splits are really doing well in the renovation ares
You don’t build a house with the assumption it will be gut in the future. You build it to function well as built. Those chases should make future work easier cuz the insulation won’t be disturbed if you change/ replace something. Everything is protected.
@@rpvitiello Matt specifically talks often about wanting to build houses with ease of future remodeling in mind. The chases may help but it's more likely they will make it more difficult since everything is so custom fit to exactly how it is built today. Not a bad thing, but it's not all roses either.
Not very realistic for houses built on spec.
@@renuing he talks about repair and service, less so renovation and reconfiguration.
The builder probably came from a multifamily background. MF builders have been utilizing fur-downs in design for this very same reason for decades (albeit without the air sealing component). How is Charlie insulating the inverted soffit/ pop-up chase? The trusses are framed on the 1 1/2” and OSB is fastened to that. How do you friction fit FG Batt to a 1 1/2” hot wall? Attic Blow won’t stay at depth on top of the inverted soffit without an insulation dam.
A shame that system doesn't meet code in many states, like NC. Building codes do not keep up with technology.
Don’t see how this is an advantage over a trunk and branch system. Seems like it uses way more material and would be much more work and $$. I also see another advantage of a sealed crawl vs a slab foundation.
Who is the Truss engineer?
Builders First Source
Puts in a thousand mini ducts through expensive insulated truss troughs and then brings the air back via a couple of main returns going through the hot attic. Okie dokie.
Check out the Rheia Duct Systems. Works excellent. The central return is also 100% in the conditioned space.
@@245HVAC It doesn't make sense to run those little ducts all the way back to the furnace, from a pressure drop point of view. But we are a society driven by codes designed by industry segments that are trying to optimize parts of the system for their own benefits. In a rational world, we might have OSB ducts with heat triggered fire extinguishers. The last couple of feet could be Rheia ducts.
Why are these "credits" and "rebates" scams provided to builders or installers? It is the occupant who is ultimately paying the for the equipment and the labor.
Well, the overall effect of these systems is to transfer money from the less well off to better off. The builders and owners of HVAC installation companies and the occupants of purchased homes are all better off than the average, so they accomplish their purpose. My guess is to make it harder for occupant-builders to get the credit. But it might have to do with lobbying and general politics.
Completely baffling why Texass builds most houses on slabs. You put in a sealed crawl space you can put all your hvac duct work, plumbing, etc in an easy access temp stable non conditioned space.
This is in Grand Junction, Colorado, not Texas. Still, most houses are built here with full basements.
Cost and soil.
@ im from Grand Junction
@@GregariousAntithesis I think you need to work on communication. So, you are posting an almost random comment that is not related to the video, but you happen to live in the location where the video applies to? Because the presenter lives in Texas?
@ i live in texas now and my house has a crawl space. I had no idea the video was in GJ. It still makes no sense why texans build on slabs so they have to resort to putting, hvac in the attic which then requires turning the attic into a living space to make it effcient. Crawl space stays a relative constant temp and doesnt require all that insulation etc. plus you have to bury plumbing in the slab which is moronic, when it fails you have to excavate a concrete floor. Absolutely far more expensive and moronic design.
Ok, Mat, I live in Wisconsin, here's kinda a stupid question or maybe just a flipping Ridiculous question, so after see this and having the HVAC not up in the attic space, on a conventional unit, what if one would install a Mini split in a mechanical room other than having the outside unit outside, whats the set back other than running hot air in that room or maybe hook it up to and exhaust fan to the outside when that fan kicks on, it would be in climate control environment
Not a fan of this method. Don't like the non continuous air barrier. Don't like the complexity. Don't like relying on spray foam for the OSB. Don't like like the reliance on the aero spray sealant. Don't like the hidden flex ducts. Don't like the super complex trusses. Don't like all the penetrations I saw either. Would rather have a flat, taped OSB ceiling with a firred down service cavity. I think it would be cheaper and simpler.
Not in the walkout basement. Not on a pad!
Love the technology, but it's a little out of reach for my area. Mid $400,000 will give you a 3,000 square foot house not 1800
talk about burying the lede... just casually mentioned that doing it this way makes the trusses way more expensive. Yes it sucks to have ducts going through a hot attic, but insulated ducting exists. It's way cheaper to put in super-insulated ducts than it is to get custom trusses with expensive extra webbing.
Yeah, especially since the truss designs they are coming up with look really sucky. Even if you go with this approach, you could fit the soffits into the existing web structure, and then build cripple walls to allow you to blow in insulation around the soffits.
The house looks like it was built with ice cream sticks. I prefer a structure made with thicker lumber, not only 2×3's and 2×4's.
More chemicals, more complexity. Why?
please stop saying the ducts are in the same air conditioned space. there is no air conditioning in those chases.
It is "conditioned space" not "air conditioned space". But in fact, this partially conditioned space.
@ its also not "conditioned"
@@sladeoriginal It is within the insulation envelop of the building. There isn't an moisture driving into the cavity. So it will stay close the temperature of the house and won't present surfaces on which condensation will occur. Even though the temperature isn't being actively controlled it will be warm enough that this is considered a partially conditioned space. Either you don't understand what is being shown to you, or you don't understand what is meant by conditioning.
@ so you make up a term and the definition of the term then you're rude to people that agree with your arbitrary term and definition. Got it.
@@sladeoriginal No, this is the common understanding. But apparently you don't get it, and made an ignorant comment. But double down on it. I get that too.
This is not a better mouse trap.
We spend $$$ to make the house sealed. Then cut big hole in the house to bring in air! SMH
Yeah clean, controlled, and tempered air at the appropriate rates for the application for best health and efficiency…
@@Iconic_Scarab I think you've drank the Koolaid. Do closets really need specific ventilation? Do you need continuous ventilation by code, or should we just encourage people to live in places where you can open windows for significant portions of the day? I guess I would be more sympathetic if HVAC equipment was more of a free market in the USA. But there seems like there is always some component that is hugely overpriced compared to function. Heat pumps way more expensive than air conditioners even though they share 95% of the same equipment. Ground loop heat pumps providing air condition, when you could just directly use ground loop cooling or swamp coolers. HRVs that really seem overpriced compared to the basic functionality. My pet peeve right this minute is government mandated design requirements that route through an advocacy group for an industry segment that then sell their codes and approve software! But I'm just starting here, so maybe I'm missing something.
@@richdobbs6595HRV's & ERV's provide alot of value in filtering outside air and reducing the costs of heating and cooling on the exchange. I think as you dig in more, you will find the cost/value relationship is a worthwhile component to your long term costs and comfort.
Everything about this seems terrible, I'd bet those circuits have extremely high resistance.
What a mess!
How much do you have to pay for a video like this. I know this builder and he isn't a good builder by any stretch of the imagination.
He considers a signed contract only valid if it benefits him.
He's a typical rich kid that took over his daddies company and operates on his families money to build houses and develope land.
His wife considered herself a designer and thier houses always sat a long time because of it. Every year they would do a parade of homes house and it would be 6 months later when it would sell when most of the others were sold before the show.
Mid $400,000. Expensive as hell.
only shit builders would use flex pipe lol , from a real Enerstar builder .
I first heard that pun in John Oliver's hilarious fake blockbuster movie trailer "Infrastructure":
th-cam.com/video/XTopVi1hVVM/w-d-xo.html