A Watches & Wonders year of lacklustre releases, with a few exceptions. We should consider that these were planned and executed through 2021 & 2022 (and we all know what happened then) Which of the handful of novelties grabbed you this year from Rolex or Tudor? 🥃
@@caseywai Even with the launch of the BB58 GMT (the standout) man, I didn't feel the excitement. Maybe because I've been talking about it for around 3 years now? Definitely a more subjective opinion on the matter. But as for Rolex? Good grief. Nothing for us to sink our teeth into 🥃
Your supposition that designs were hampered by 2021 work from home is very plausible. I also think both held back some watches ready to go because of how bad so many economies around the world are. The problem with your ‘go upmarket’ theory is that Rolex is very late AND known as a million watch a year company. The super rich want to stand out - if you show up at a party and 3 other guys have a gold Skydweller…
Great video as always! After years of hearing about the absolute misery of buying a Rolex, I decided to give it a go myself to celebrate a milestone birthday. To my delight, I got the Explorer (40mm) I’d always wanted from my local AD in less than two weeks with no purchase history. The manager was fantastic to deal with, and he was a genuine enthusiast who revelled in chatting about all things watches. He had zero problem in letting me try on watches from across the Rolex and Tudor range whilst we drank very nice coffee. He even said he watches your videos, which confirmed to me he was a top bloke! To my surprise and delight, it was a top notch experience. I hope others can have the same going forward!
Wise words sir. Next thing you know, Rolex phases out all steel completely.... Insane but it's feeling like it's not out of the realm of possibility...
Kid you not Mike, there’s word on the street that they might be cutting their steel production down by a massive percentage going forwards. In the next 5 years? I fear it’s going to be a very different playing field 🥃
Tudor will fill the Rolex steel sport model void under £10k within 5 years. Want a Sub or Explorer in steel? Tudor will be the only show in town as Rolex move up and expand the £30k+ models in precious metals. There are more millionaires in the world than Rolex can pump out watches. Why pander to non-millionaires when you can sell Tudor to the general public. It will be interesting to see how Rolex builds Tudor's brand over the next few years.
Rolex phasing out all of the steel sports watches would really hurt the brand more than help. Most of their sales comes from the fact that their watches are pricey asf and is a status symbol, but not so pricey that they're out of reach for 90% of the people.
Highly Doubt it personally. 904L steel Sports will exist for decades to come. Rolex is moving up market to high jewellery/luxury with further developments in precious materials, display casebacks, movement finishing and totally A-magnetic movements with even higher power reserves. The steel sports models will incorporate these features and the prices will start in excess of 10k- widening the gap between the tiers to which Rolex and Tudor exist and as a consequence the working and middle classes will struggle regardless of savings afford a Rolex timepiece
I think lackluster is not right for Tudor this year. We got a METAS GMT in a nicely slim case, and we got a Tudor Submariner for the first time in a quarter century. This year might not have been super flashy, but I think calling it lackluster is unfair
I would have to agree with the presenter. Tudor made an oversized GMT a little slimmer so it does not look like a Seiko Tuna on a small wrist (Longines did that years ago). The rest can be summed up by saying Tudor found Black on Black as a color scheme and except the grey/black GMT Rolex leaned into taking their existing models and “blinging them up”. It’s simply not impressive or interesting. Of course your never going to be able to find these anyway, less afford them, so it’s really just a waste.
Really hard, if not impossible to justify paying over twice the amount for a Rolex Sub compared to the new Tudor Black bay on Jubilee bracelet. Ok, it’s not a Rolex( if that’s your thing), but, it’s a seriously nice watch with a master chronometer movement, 70 hours power reserve and also really nice lume. I’m sorely tempted and it looks as good in the flesh, it will be very hard not to pull the trigger.
I’ve been saying you’re the most BRILLIANT mind on TH-cam when it comes to watches! If I were Omega, I’ll scoop you up and bring you in for Head of Design and Product Development! We needn’t look further to similarity than when George Daniels was pitching his Co-Axial Escapement to Patek and Rolex, before Omega took up his offer. George Daniels is the most SIGNIFICANT contributor to the world of Horology in over 2 centuries! Love your show and ideas.
Thank you Heisenberg, truly it means a lot. I try and approach these from a place of passion (while trying to put myself in the brands shoes) AND to be a part of Omega’s team? Absolutely. The chance to work with such a diverse range of pieces, heritage inspired, reissues, modern lines… it would be fantastic! Thanks for this again 🥃
Tudor does a great job at intentionally almost giving the people what they want. They know people want that gmt to mirror the gmt master 2, but that’s too much encroachment. If they put a real coke bezel with white markings/hands/indices on the 5 link, it would’ve sold out already, but they know this. They tease upgrades to evolve slowly without making Rolex 2.0. I respect it, they still make enthusiasts want a collection with both brands
That is why our hosts ‘Rolex leaving the space to go high end and allowing Tudor to fill it’ doesn’t work. If Rolex abandons steel they’ll send customers to brands other than Tudor. Having said that I’m in a huge market (3rd or 4th biggest boutique by sales) and my AD already told me there huge interest in the new GMT - so it’s more than good enough. I do wish the the red popped more like the red on the Rolex Pepsi.
Great video, the BB58 GMT Coke with the gilt looks very warm and inviting. I can't wait to see it in the metal! The monochrome Tudor black is outstanding especially on the five link bracelet. Well done Tudor..
2 for 2 this year from Tudor absolutely. I can’t wait to see how well the addressed that Red colourway in the metal. Looks bloody terrific (literally) 😉🥃
I tried on the Black Bay 41mm monochrome earlier today. The black really shrinks the perceived size of the watch. It wears great and I liked the watch much more than I thought I would. For me the best watch of the show.
Thanks for the video as always - great commentary and video presentation. Woke up at midnight to see the new watches; immediately texted my AD to put me on the list for the BB GMT Coke. The gilt gives just good vintage vibes. I have the 41, 14.6 BB GMT Opaline and don’t mind the size - but this will be even more comfortable. Rolex - whatever. Expect to see these new offerings languishing on the grey market, maybe a few sitting in the safes of their > 70 yr old customers.
If you own some Rolex and Tudor watches already, it gets harder to raise enthusiasm for tweaks. There is one watch already in the Rolex catalogue I would like if my AD provides it. Other than that I'm done with both brands for now. My collection is pretty extensive so I'd probably do better by selling my least favourite watch sequentially, until I'm down to a more reasonable number. I do like the look of the monochrome 41mm BB.
Still the best videos of all TH-camrs out there - thanks for the high quality content. I think you’re spot on with your analysis. I see all these videos and comments out there about “Tudor beats Rolex” and I think those comments are so short sighted. To think that the greatest marketing company out there doesn’t have a long term calculated strategy on these two brands and how they complement each other is crazy to me. Rolex is an exclusive brand… for those that can’t get a steel one, they’ve got a Tudor for you. On consolidation they’ve just grabbed even more market share. And I think lack lustre is exactly the right term and intention by this genius consolidated company.
I think this year has been the nail in the proverbial coffin of expectation for Rolex and Tudor. People who still wanted the 39mm Explorer got the Ranger. People who wanted a scaled-down Sub got the BB54. The *very* large crowd screaming for the Coke bezel just got a BB58 GMT. Tudor is definitively where Rolex goes for its vintage reissues.
The Tudor GMT release if you casually look is very similar to the vintage pepsi model that you were wishing for. The black portion of the bezel can be confused for navy blue at times, that's what I see from the screen captions.
The take out is that Tudor has a GMT movement that doesn't make their watches fat now. If only it was put in the 39mm Pelegos...... The 41mm BB might be a Sub competitor in colour and specs, except it's 50mm lug to lug, and has an aluminium bezel so I'd still rather have the Rolex.
7:25 Rolex have really improved the Daytona. Adding a frame around the ceramic insert...Brilliant! Gone are the cartoony rafts for indices...Stupendous!! Gone is the outer & inner circle sub-dial design, in favor of a single circle. Awesome!!!
I always look forward to & enjoy your videos bro, & this one no exception. Re Tudor I actually think it was a decent showing. Many have been calling for a 58 GMT for years & it’s here, plus a new BB in monotone, with 5-link & T-fit. More colours of both these models will likely follow in coming years, too. (not too much too early, right!?) Re Rolex, another GMT gives us all more chance of acquiring one across the range. More PM pieces mean (hopefully) more availability for the SS models generally. Also, many of us are waiting on SS models already in the lineup, so adding more year on year just leads to more frustration that there’s yet more unobtainable pieces out there & the associated fomo. Maybe it’s a chance for most of us to ‘reset’ & hopefully get the model we’ve been after already for months/years without pining for yet another… 😀
My pleasure to always share these brother and thank you! Well put together points about both brands, there was definitely some logic from them this year (funnelling the customer down two separate avenues) 😉 Have a superb weekend! 🥃
@@ID-Guy so true. I almost considered the BBPro over the Pelagos 39. The thickness of the pro was the deciding factor. I would love a thinner BBPro 2 with the Metas movement.
I like the new watches from Tudor, but to be honest, I love my GMT since I bought it three years ago and because my wrist, fits better the 41 than the 39mm. and I don't have any problem with the thickness, besides, I don't like the golden color on hands, markers, text and numbers. Sorry, but I prefer mine, knowing that the specifications are better on the new one. The new Monochrome is just beautiful. Many thanks for sharing and great video.
Ah man, thank you. I really do appreciate it AND it means the most that somebody else enjoys the small write-ups I prepare (that at least stay on track) 😆 Have a great weekend sir! 🥃
Good Sunday Morning to you sir. There was no 'Wonder' in the Rolex releases this year. Although, I must say I do like the new 1908. The 1908 line has intrigued me since its release. A watch with a small seconds at six o'clock is something I adore. Reminds me so much of the 1902 Hunter case pocket watch I have from my Great Uncle. Thanks as always for your perspective. Like many other comments, I truly look forward to your weekly vids.
Seeing the Metas gmt at under 13mm thickness. And then having the non gmt metas at above 13mm thickness. Makes me think we’ll see a new, slimmer flagship black bay in 4-5 years. Planned obsolescence isn’t quite the right word for tudors strategy but it sure isn’t far off. Tudor learned that we sheeple will happily buy overly thick watches. It feels like the brand is keeping specs away from us, knowing they don’t have to make the “perfect watch”. Saving and planning upgrades for the next 10 years so they can always “improve” they’re watches
The Patek business model "buy all these precious metals and maybe if your a good boy we will allocate a steel sports " great video as has come to be expected
I think it’s safe to say that nobody had a “yellow gold deep sea” on their bingo card. And when Tudor says “monochrome”, they aren’t kidding. Just a red shield would’ve been great. Great video..thx
1st question Brother, would you give up the Seamaster Trilogy for ANY new release this year, if £ weren't a consideration? Hope Classic Motoring is treating you well?
I think the Seamaster is really about sentimentality at this stage. It's been with me for four years (through good and awful experiences) So between the Seamaster and Explorer? They aren't going anywhere (not even for a Solid Gold Deepsea) 😉
Something I hadn't considered was the impact of the pandemic on the design process and the 2 year lead time between inception and production - and I wouldn't have got there without your suggestion. It makes sense, given whats been released. Otherwise, I'm struggling to find something meaningful to say - the BB58 GMT is cool watch, I like it. I dig gilt and prefer a Coke insert to a Pepsi … yet the watch doesn't exite me. The Zenith Defy Revival Diver is the pick of 'em this year imo. 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 an interesting watch. Cheers IDGuy.
Pandemic pushback and a lack of excitement, think you're bang on Anthony. I too didn't get a "kick" even after seeing the GMT - probably because I've been pumping out content around it for what must be 3-4 years 😆 AND next weeks videos is covering exactly what you've mentioned... loved what Zenith produced, even the Defy Chrono. It looks so "correct". Have a great weekend brother! 🥃
Honestly i am over Rolex. I can't get them from an AD so... Tudor is my brand to go for nowadays. I loved Omega too. But Omega is getting behind and going in a dark zone, in my estimation. Omega should release a new Seamaster and Planet Ocean real soon. And these better be awesome
Even if the releases from Rolex could and should be somewhat disturbing to watch enthusiasts not interested in precious metals, i'll say that if I was completely new to this or I was just in the market to buy "a watch" and just for the sake of indulging my fantasies one could walk into a store and buy whatever one wanted. Of all the GMTs they have come up with over the years, the ghost GMT on jubilee is the one i'd want over all the others by far. I like the sober and discreet presentation and I happen to love grey. The touch of green is just enough to give it a spark. I do hope to get it. Top of my list.
Tudor's decision to omit the 5 link bracelet on the vintage inspired bb58 coke GMT leads me to think they are reserving the 5 link bracelet for a non-vintage 58 GMT, possibly a blue bezel variant that's 2-3 years away. Possibly when that's released, the Coke GMT might get a bracelet refresh with the 5 link.
Very insightful video. I really like the looks of the 1908, not so much the other Rolex offerings-I prefer an all black bezel to the black/grey on the GMT Master II. Tudor doesn’t excite me (either).
Made me wonder why they didn't just bring the All-Black bezel back (it would've synchronised well with Tudor's Black Black Bay) But you're right about that lack of excitement across the board 🥃
I agree the GMT is the star. Would have loved a 5 link bracelet. Not sure if I like the Gilt on the bezel, but will need to see it in person. Curious with the new movement, if they update the Pro this year. I don't see Tudor making any changes to BB GMT this year. A pelagos gmt will be interesting. That could be a one watch collection in itself
They've really opened the door for so much in the next year or two. Pelagos GMT (great point on the BBPro) It's clear that they keep on improving (besides the rivet bracelet) while big brother is taking the back seat 😆 Well said as always JT 🥃
Great video, and totally agree on the lacklaster releaes this year. I feel that Rolex is really attuned to the financial market. A more recession future outcome will mean more mono tone and more conventional releases this year. Thanks bro for the awesome video 🙏🏽
No one is mentioning that the dial markers on the new BB58 GMT are smaller when compared to the normal BB lineup. Definitely an improvement and further adding to the vintage 4/5 digit vibe. Now if they can only remove the faux rivet bracelet.
100% agree on your take on the 1908. To me the 1908 line (or the old Cellini for that matter) always felt like Rolex cosplaying as an haute horlogerie brand, which they aren’t. As for their other releases, I wonder what the ghost bezel stainless steel GMT release would do to the secondary price of the old all black 116710LN as both look very similar to each other. Is it time to get the LN before prices start to rise?
The 1908 gives you that “sports watch in the guise of a field watch” feel, right? they aren’t fooling us 😉 My 2 cents? Go after the OG black bezel AND for an even better up-to-date buy, last years TT Grey/Black. If I had the money, last years model on a jubilee would already be in my collection 🥃
@@ID-Guy Indeed, aint fooling me thats for sure. Maybe they shouldve called it the “Guilloche Master” to help raise hype around that line. As for the GMT, I’m affraid I have neither enough clout with the AD nor the budget for last year’s precious metal models, the old LN though, might just be within reach in a few month’s time. Here’s hoping it wont blow up in value yet by then.
Tudor did a better job than the usual "meh" Rolex does every year. For the Black Bays, i think the trio is good. The problem is that all Tudor does are Black Bays, Black Bays, Black Bays.
The Black Bay Fatigue has hit me big time, gotta say BUT its probably because you can only discuss them so many times 😆 We've got to get more Pelagos'...
ID Guy makes excellent points on both Rolex and Tudor’s new models. Given Patek Philippe cut the Nautilus in steel from its catalog last year, Rolex is doing the same with its portfolio. So if you want an affordable tool watch at an AD, you will be offered a Rolex CPO or a Tudor in steel. Makes sense if Rolex/Tudor customers accept Rolex’s strategy. However, many collectors with uncommon sense and personal dignity, have discovered many other brands. So the collectors will decide with our money what watches we want to buy not Rolex . {Note: I know Rolex owns 30% of the Swiss market. I know Rolex is the king for a reason. But the Pandemic changed everything and there are new trends emerging. For reference, General Motors owned over 50% of the United States auto market in the 1960’s. Then the first OPEC oil embargo occurred in the early 1970’s. GM never recovered. Only time will tell if Rolex loses its grip on the international watch market or not.}
The gold Deep Sea is actually probably the best and most interesting development from the brand in a decade; it is a wink and a smile to the ridiculousness of the deep sea, and an acknowledgement to who is buying the watch and why. It is the ultimate ridiculous, over the top watch, that still stays, dare I say it, restrained. They managed to make the ultimate bling watch without a single jewel, without fancy complications, just a basic three hand sport watch. That is peak Rolex right there. Of course I would never buy it in a million years, (even if I could afford it) but I'm not the audience for it, and I get that.
I think Rolex gave us something to chew on for the next years with both LeMans watches. I wonder how many are in circulation. The Tiffany dial Nautilus and the LeMans are going to break limits on auctions in only a few years time from now.🔥🔥
From a business perspective the strategy of moving upmarket makes perfect sense: Patek-level exclusivity and price points for a mass produced, wholly machine made product would be an enviable position. But as you said, does the product come even close to the competitors? Without the ability to change your core lines too dramatically, your upmarketing strategy consists of artificial scarcity, some vertical integration (Bucherer), and mostly legacy flogging -- and how much longer can they draft off those 30ish years of the peak 4-digit era?
I have this gut feel that they won’t be giving us a 5-link for this line for a few years, just so they can drum up more interest in the new BB41 😉 Sneaky tactics 🥃
Thanks for another great video. Rolex - agree that they are moving into the horological stratosphere where they don’t fit well. But Rolex know the market is fickle is, and there are enough people who will follow them anywhere - that Rolex brand power is a big carrot to dangle in front of rich mules who will follow them anywhere. Tudor - I love the Black Bay Black - of course it’s the Submariner that everyone has been asking for. But each year that goes by seems to confuse what they want from the Black Bay. Is it modern or is it vintage - and how does that line juxtapose with the Pelagos. I think the identities of the two lines are not fully resolved yet. This is probably a consequence of responding to what the market wants rather than defining a clear direction for themselves.
I too was underwhelmed, even Grand Seiko couldn’t find anything interesting to me this time. The monochrome Black Bay was only thing that even slightly raised my pulse, and that’s hardly a fascinating development! Zenith are the only brand that I felt really delivered. I’m so intrigued by the Defy Extreme Diver and can’t decide if I think it’s an over-designed mess or a welcome injection of colour and fun and something that I really desire.
Next week's video I'll be covering the Zenith that stood out to me the most (diver) BUT the Defy chrono looked so "correct", right? Extremely well balanced. I'd say Zenith was definitely in that Top 5 running this year... considering how 90% of the pieces put us to sleep 😉
@@ID-Guy Well I’m definitely excited to hear your thoughts on the diver. There’s a huge amount going on there and I’ll be intrigued to see whether it all comes together in the metal.
@@ProfessorPesca A good friend of mine has been saying for years and years now "why aren't they bringing a diver back into their collection?" He nailed it! Just think of the variety from here? Excited to share it Prof 🥃
I feel you Theo, really wished there was more of a “spark” - but maybe that’s subjective because I’ve been talking about the BB58 GMT for what must be nearly 4 years now 🤣 Enjoy your weekend brother!
Fantastic and ever-articulate vid agin my friend! Yes - 'lacklustre' sums it up very well. You're summation of the Crown's thought process behind these marketing decisions makes perfect sense now. Don't you think it's just a top-down reflection of the overall dealership experience most of us recieve; that cold, calculating and very impresonal ethos trickling down to us, the hoi polloi. And perhaps that's why so many of us are struggling with the whole AD dealer relationship - we're not a part of the 1% that they have their sight set on. On another note - it may be lazy product development, but I absolutely love the 5-link Monochrome Black Bay! I never got on with the Gilt accents, but this one is destined for me - it's the closest to the old Tudor Sub I've seen yet 🙂 Keep up the good work!!!
It seems more and more that Rolex is chasing that same AP-Hype-Rapper-Star marketplace and leaving the everyday person out of the equation (for the most part) But then, these releases could have just been "releases for releases sake" - giving them more time to focus on the more in-demand models instead of creating hype and demand for newer ones. Its madness trying to decipher what goes on 😆 As for that Black Black Bay, I can see that it's going to bring so many people in. A "Tudor Sub" at last... thank you as always brother! 🥃
I think Rolex’s novelties this year is one of the smartest in years. They can’t satisfy orders from 2014, let alone 2024. Let them make what they are without increasing engineering demand so they can make the ones people are desperate for
As I typically do, I'm up at 04:30 in anticipation of your Saturday morning video release. Again, a well thought out and articulated review of the subject at hand. IMHO, the new Platinum 1908 is an absolute hit from a design standpoint, albeit a niche market item. Thank you for the shout out on the 1908 inspired world time complication. I can only wonder if our influential friend in the watch and YT world actually presented my design proposal to Rolex like he offered. Rolex knows how to innovate; the big question is will they or even do they need to in light of their position in the industry. One thing I want to mention is the discontinuation of the Yacht-Master II, a watch that I personally will not miss, but maybe an opportunity for a new Ring Command Bezel watch, wink, wink. 😉 Lastly, you know my feelings on ANY Submariner/dive watch in gold let alone this monster in solid form. Yes, it will sell, but we expect a bit more from the Crown, or in this case, a bit less. 🤔
Whilst i do really like the new bb58 gmt, i think the colouration on your render is better. Treads the line between modern and vintage nod better. Tudor states 20mm lugs on their website.
No excitement at all, but I've come to expect that from the Crown these days. At this point, I think they're just throwing darts at a board, seeing what they hit and turning these into reality. They know their brand is strong enough, that they'll find an audience for each new piece, somewhere.
Why isn’t anyone talking about the fact that the gold black bay 58 have a bracelet without the faux rivets? I think that is perhaps the most important detail coming this year from Rolex and Tudor
I'm not sure that this should have been a big surprise from Rolex. I read somewhere (maybe WatchPro?) a couple of years ago that the new Rolex facility was going to be mostly dedicated to manufacturing precious metal watches. They would need to add more precious metal options to make this move viable.
It probably won't generate the views as a Rolex & Tudor video, but it would be interesting to learn your views on the small but considerate changes made to the Oris Aquis model range.
I’m actually in the process of putting something together about Oris (a bit more all-encompassing) and will absolutely cover the changes made to the Aquis 🥃
With your design background, do you have any specific problems with the overall look of the platinum 1908? Because I definitely have a lot of issues that could easily in my view, remedy this new piece.
I'd say there's more than a few issues I have with it 😉 Chiefly, if they dropped the 9 & 3 numerals and kept the 12, there would be so much more harmony between the 12 and the Sub-dial. It's the kind of piece that deserves a bit more attention, no doubt! 🥃
@@ID-Guy Personally, as a dress watch fanatic, this is so close, and yet so far (particularly considering the retail price). The proportions look off because of the 39 mm size-it would look far more elegant at 36mm, and along that vein a slimmer version of the observatory hands (akin to what they did with the Etude #1 in Bill Sander's group) would be desirable. The Explorer 1 style applied numerals are akin to wearing tan loafers with a navy double-breasted suit, ie: out of place and incongruous. Shrink down the small seconds and get rid of the silly "superlative chronometer" boast (it's a dress watch, after all). The Rolex logo needs to be moved down, as there's too much dead space between the cannon pinion. And finally, ditch the syloxi, and instead utilize their parachrom hairspring; and I know it needs a Breguet overcoil, so would it kill you Rolex to make a hand-wound movement so it's overall slimmer (and again, it's a dress watch, after all).
@@kojiattwood It's a sports watch in the guise of a dress watch, plain and simple 😉 And I think that's why the majority see it as "alright" - without the Rolex name on the dial I doubt it would receive any attention. Definitely worth looking into for a future video 🔥
I couldn’t agree with you more Rolex will continue to elevate and push their precious metal options. I am here for it though. Thanks for another great video.
I should've directed that "lacklustre" comment more to Rolex (and not roped Tudor into it) you're right. Hindsight 😉 Tudor's BB's this year were so on-point - arguably better than last year? 🥃
Rolex's success in moving customers up the price ladder is evident from the recent Morgan Stanley top-50 Swiss Watch report. Their average sales price last year was CHF12,218 and the no-date sub sells this year for CHF9,167 (GBP price converted to CHF). For Omega it was 6,573, with 6,377 for the SMP300. Rolex buyers go well beyond entry-level.
But they could raise prices $2k on every steel model (maybe leave the OP and DJ alone) and raise the profit per Watch metric. There would be grumbles - but they’d all sell AND might win back customers by dealing a huge blow to the grey market.
@@WestCoastAce27 the price differential between steel and gold is more than the cost of the gold. Having an inflated grey market helps push people towards precious metals, because it reduces the differential for would-be stainless steel customers at the wrong end of the list.
Here are a few of my observations from W&W this year: While I do enjoy a couple of Tudor’s releases, there’s really nothing I’ll start saving $ for. I like the size of the BB58 GMT, but I’m not a fan of gilt. I love the monochrome color of the BB, but it’s still very thick. Rolex seems to have solidified their position as a watch company that peons like me can’t justify purchasing. If someone actually wears that behemoth Deepsea for diving, it’s dragging them right to the bottom!
The two brands showed their very clear divide this year, right? Either you're in that 1% who wants to flex or you're pursuing Tudor. Well said here Chris (as always) 🥃
ADs in the Emirates, rejoice..! For almost everyone else (ADs and customers), less steel and more verjazzling is a nightmare. It will help shore up sliding steel used values though...
I will still wait for more GMT releases before I have my pick, something awesome could make its way to us. When you mentioned GMT hand, I got excited because I thought we were going to share the same point of view; The color is definitely great as it does not contrast and take away from the dial. However, I do feel the hand seems like a bit of an intrusion on the dial, it seems too out of place. I just started thinking about the colored hand on the Rolex GMT and you may be right about it needing to have striking color, I think it will become more of a design feature rather than a feature that sits in there., which is what I get from the gold GMT hand.
Tudor and Rolex, I enjoyed these releases. Tag Heuer stumbled, after huge success last year. Oris release was confused. Still waiting in coming weeks? Months? To see what Breitling and Omega will do.
while I'm as bored with the rolex releases as everyone else, I do think it's important to remember that the appeal of mechanical watches is that they're already an anachronism, they're not supposed to be advancing by leaps and bounds, and supposedly these trinkets are supposed to be with us decades if not centuries. I expect things to evolve at a much much slower pace than most consumer segments. Happy they finally got the Tudor GMT 58, but I'm gonna hold until either they bring the 5 link bracelet to it, or a design without the gilt.
It’s interesting to think about the era that we live in with the choices being made. People are being mugged for their watches. Conspicuous consumption is somewhat frowned upon. Yet, we see Rolex lean into opulent looks while Tudor mutes much of their catalog. It makes me wonder if Rolex is going after the entertainment class (musicians) to try to burnish the brand with younger people in an AP-style… But younger people can’t get into that watch. Building the exclusivity marketing?
I think you’re 100% on it, Rolex is going more and more for “look at me” pursuing the AP-hype-musician-opulent audience… it’s a sad state of affairs (no idea how long it will last) but the next generation - my generation? I doubt they’ll even look seriously at Rolex. It’s just too far and beyond 🥃
Tudor releases were interesting but could have been great. A pop of red on the lume pip on the BB would have lifted it so much. The GMT is a great size but Tudor please loose the gilt on your watches.
I've definitely been off the Tudor hype recently. Don't get me wrong, they make great watches. And, I think what we've seen at W&W24 this year has me patiently excited for the potential in future releases. But, for now, I have not found THE Tudor watch(es) I really want, yet. Until then, I'll be content to shelve Tudor for a while and revisit them when they have exactly what I've been wanting. Something in their BB58 GMT line, someething in the Pelagos 39 line. Fingers cross they'll both happen in the future. As with Rolex this year... anyways ...
Keep your ear to the ground for a Pelagos. To this day it’s still my No. 1 recommendation and we just know that some kind of GMT hybrid is in the pipeline 😉 Thanks as always for this Khrono! 🥃
A Watches & Wonders year of lacklustre releases, with a few exceptions. We should consider that these were planned and executed through 2021 & 2022 (and we all know what happened then) Which of the handful of novelties grabbed you this year from Rolex or Tudor? 🥃
The new 1908 comes closest to good to me from those two, but the Cartier Dumont Rewind is a banger watch. Cartier keeps winning.
@@HorizontalvertigoThose Cartier Tortue pieces… man. That monopusher? Just unfair 🔥
Thanks for sharing the truth and obviously lacklustre in my opinion.
@@caseywai Even with the launch of the BB58 GMT (the standout) man, I didn't feel the excitement. Maybe because I've been talking about it for around 3 years now? Definitely a more subjective opinion on the matter. But as for Rolex? Good grief. Nothing for us to sink our teeth into 🥃
Your supposition that designs were hampered by 2021 work from home is very plausible. I also think both held back some watches ready to go because of how bad so many economies around the world are.
The problem with your ‘go upmarket’ theory is that Rolex is very late AND known as a million watch a year company. The super rich want to stand out - if you show up at a party and 3 other guys have a gold Skydweller…
Great video as always! After years of hearing about the absolute misery of buying a Rolex, I decided to give it a go myself to celebrate a milestone birthday. To my delight, I got the Explorer (40mm) I’d always wanted from my local AD in less than two weeks with no purchase history. The manager was fantastic to deal with, and he was a genuine enthusiast who revelled in chatting about all things watches. He had zero problem in letting me try on watches from across the Rolex and Tudor range whilst we drank very nice coffee. He even said he watches your videos, which confirmed to me he was a top bloke! To my surprise and delight, it was a top notch experience. I hope others can have the same going forward!
Wise words sir. Next thing you know, Rolex phases out all steel completely.... Insane but it's feeling like it's not out of the realm of possibility...
Kid you not Mike, there’s word on the street that they might be cutting their steel production down by a massive percentage going forwards. In the next 5 years? I fear it’s going to be a very different playing field 🥃
Tudor will fill the Rolex steel sport model void under £10k within 5 years. Want a Sub or Explorer in steel? Tudor will be the only show in town as Rolex move up and expand the £30k+ models in precious metals. There are more millionaires in the world than Rolex can pump out watches. Why pander to non-millionaires when you can sell Tudor to the general public. It will be interesting to see how Rolex builds Tudor's brand over the next few years.
Rolex phasing out all of the steel sports watches would really hurt the brand more than help. Most of their sales comes from the fact that their watches are pricey asf and is a status symbol, but not so pricey that they're out of reach for 90% of the people.
I was thinking the same . But could Rolex abandon its tool watch identity?
Highly Doubt it personally. 904L steel
Sports will exist for decades to come. Rolex is moving up market to high jewellery/luxury with further developments in precious materials, display casebacks, movement finishing and totally A-magnetic movements with even higher power reserves.
The steel sports models will incorporate these features and the prices will start in excess of 10k- widening the gap between the tiers to which Rolex and Tudor exist and as a consequence the working and middle classes will struggle regardless of savings afford a Rolex timepiece
I think lackluster is not right for Tudor this year. We got a METAS GMT in a nicely slim case, and we got a Tudor Submariner for the first time in a quarter century. This year might not have been super flashy, but I think calling it lackluster is unfair
I think I should've aimed that comment more on Rolex solely than roping Tudor into it, you're right 🥃
I would have to agree with the presenter. Tudor made an oversized GMT a little slimmer so it does not look like a Seiko Tuna on a small wrist (Longines did that years ago). The rest can be summed up by saying Tudor found Black on Black as a color scheme and except the grey/black GMT Rolex leaned into taking their existing models and “blinging them up”. It’s simply not impressive or interesting. Of course your never going to be able to find these anyway, less afford them, so it’s really just a waste.
I love that new BB on 5 link. Sub sinker!
Really hard, if not impossible to justify paying over twice the amount for a Rolex Sub compared to the new Tudor Black bay on Jubilee bracelet. Ok, it’s not a Rolex( if that’s your thing), but, it’s a seriously nice watch with a master chronometer movement, 70 hours power reserve and also really nice lume. I’m sorely tempted and it looks as good in the flesh, it will be very hard not to pull the trigger.
@tonyhalpin1320 based on that logic it's not worth buying a Tudor over the equivilant San Martin either.
“Give it a measured bashing” - that’s what I’m here for 😂
Just taking a few steps back to be sure the kick is dead centre 😉🥃
I’ve been saying you’re the most BRILLIANT mind on TH-cam when it comes to watches! If I were Omega, I’ll scoop you up and bring you in for Head of Design and Product Development! We needn’t look further to similarity than when George Daniels was pitching his Co-Axial Escapement to Patek and Rolex, before Omega took up his offer. George Daniels is the most SIGNIFICANT contributor to the world of Horology in over 2 centuries! Love your show and ideas.
Thank you Heisenberg, truly it means a lot. I try and approach these from a place of passion (while trying to put myself in the brands shoes) AND to be a part of Omega’s team? Absolutely. The chance to work with such a diverse range of pieces, heritage inspired, reissues, modern lines… it would be fantastic! Thanks for this again 🥃
Fun fact, Arnold Schwarzenegger learned ballet in order to add more elegance and flow to his posing routine.
True, first scene of Pumping Iron if I remember correctly
Tudor does a great job at intentionally almost giving the people what they want. They know people want that gmt to mirror the gmt master 2, but that’s too much encroachment. If they put a real coke bezel with white markings/hands/indices on the 5 link, it would’ve sold out already, but they know this. They tease upgrades to evolve slowly without making Rolex 2.0. I respect it, they still make enthusiasts want a collection with both brands
That is why our hosts ‘Rolex leaving the space to go high end and allowing Tudor to fill it’ doesn’t work. If Rolex abandons steel they’ll send customers to brands other than Tudor.
Having said that I’m in a huge market (3rd or 4th biggest boutique by sales) and my AD already told me there huge interest in the new GMT - so it’s more than good enough. I do wish the the red popped more like the red on the Rolex Pepsi.
Great video, the BB58 GMT Coke with the gilt looks very warm and inviting. I can't wait to see it in the metal! The monochrome Tudor black is outstanding especially on the five link bracelet. Well done Tudor..
2 for 2 this year from Tudor absolutely. I can’t wait to see how well the addressed that Red colourway in the metal. Looks bloody terrific (literally) 😉🥃
Rolex homaging Seiko’s “5 GMT” is the biggest story of watches and wonders.
So funny! I saw that the other day. "Seiko did it first" 😆🥃
Now that you’ve mentioned it. You’re right, Seiko was 2 years ahead!
Was exactly what I thought when I saw that thing. 👌
I believe Rolex nailed the "Ghost GMT!"
I tried on the Black Bay 41mm monochrome earlier today. The black really shrinks the perceived size of the watch. It wears great and I liked the watch much more than I thought I would. For me the best watch of the show.
Thank you for sharing this Ryan! Goes to show that the Tudor Sub is finally making its return in full force 🔥
Holy smokes, a 1908 Worldtime. I would actually consider saving up for that. A 1908 and a BB58 GMT would make a great pairing.
Imagine what they could bust out with the 1908 line? Bi-Compax Chronograph etc etc 🔥
Thanks for the video as always - great commentary and video presentation. Woke up at midnight to see the new watches; immediately texted my AD to put me on the list for the BB GMT Coke. The gilt gives just good vintage vibes. I have the 41, 14.6 BB GMT Opaline and don’t mind the size - but this will be even more comfortable.
Rolex - whatever. Expect to see these new offerings languishing on the grey market, maybe a few sitting in the safes of their > 70 yr old customers.
If you own some Rolex and Tudor watches already, it gets harder to raise enthusiasm for tweaks. There is one watch already in the Rolex catalogue I would like if my AD provides it. Other than that I'm done with both brands for now. My collection is pretty extensive so I'd probably do better by selling my least favourite watch sequentially, until I'm down to a more reasonable number. I do like the look of the monochrome 41mm BB.
Still the best videos of all TH-camrs out there - thanks for the high quality content. I think you’re spot on with your analysis. I see all these videos and comments out there about “Tudor beats Rolex” and I think those comments are so short sighted. To think that the greatest marketing company out there doesn’t have a long term calculated strategy on these two brands and how they complement each other is crazy to me. Rolex is an exclusive brand… for those that can’t get a steel one, they’ve got a Tudor for you. On consolidation they’ve just grabbed even more market share. And I think lack lustre is exactly the right term and intention by this genius consolidated company.
I think this year has been the nail in the proverbial coffin of expectation for Rolex and Tudor. People who still wanted the 39mm Explorer got the Ranger. People who wanted a scaled-down Sub got the BB54. The *very* large crowd screaming for the Coke bezel just got a BB58 GMT.
Tudor is definitively where Rolex goes for its vintage reissues.
The Tudor GMT release if you casually look is very similar to the vintage pepsi model that you were wishing for. The black portion of the bezel can be confused for navy blue at times, that's what I see from the screen captions.
The take out is that Tudor has a GMT movement that doesn't make their watches fat now. If only it was put in the 39mm Pelegos......
The 41mm BB might be a Sub competitor in colour and specs, except it's 50mm lug to lug, and has an aluminium bezel so I'd still rather have the Rolex.
Agree about the BB58 GMT hand and bezel. Hand should have been red and bezel accent white. Would have made it better looking and functional
Like Arnold learning ballet! 💪🏼 🩰 😂👏👏👏
They could spin this as a cool marketing trick for the 1908 😉🥃
I like the Monochrome Black Bay the best. Another great video. Thank you
7:25 Rolex have really improved the Daytona.
Adding a frame around the ceramic insert...Brilliant!
Gone are the cartoony rafts for indices...Stupendous!!
Gone is the outer & inner circle sub-dial design, in favor of a single circle. Awesome!!!
I always look forward to & enjoy your videos bro, & this one no exception. Re Tudor I actually think it was a decent showing. Many have been calling for a 58 GMT for years & it’s here, plus a new BB in monotone, with 5-link & T-fit. More colours of both these models will likely follow in coming years, too. (not too much too early, right!?) Re Rolex, another GMT gives us all more chance of acquiring one across the range. More PM pieces mean (hopefully) more availability for the SS models generally. Also, many of us are waiting on SS models already in the lineup, so adding more year on year just leads to more frustration that there’s yet more unobtainable pieces out there & the associated fomo. Maybe it’s a chance for most of us to ‘reset’ & hopefully get the model we’ve been after already for months/years without pining for yet another… 😀
My pleasure to always share these brother and thank you! Well put together points about both brands, there was definitely some logic from them this year (funnelling the customer down two separate avenues) 😉 Have a superb weekend! 🥃
What Tudor should have done was thinned the Black Bay Pro. THAT WOULDA BEEN A HUGE HIT.
We just know that's on it's way ;) BBPro 2 would be a stellar update 🔥
@@ID-Guy so true. I almost considered the BBPro over the Pelagos 39. The thickness of the pro was the deciding factor. I would love a thinner BBPro 2 with the Metas movement.
@@ID-Guy Opaline dial BB Pro II with rhodium hands/dial markers and my wallet is done.
I like the new watches from Tudor, but to be honest, I love my GMT since I bought it three years ago and because my wrist, fits better the 41 than the 39mm. and I don't have any problem with the thickness, besides, I don't like the golden color on hands, markers, text and numbers. Sorry, but I prefer mine, knowing that the specifications are better on the new one.
The new Monochrome is just beautiful.
Many thanks for sharing and great video.
The BB58 GMT is seriously handsome ❤ I just wish they kept the thick crown stem look. Here is my prediction the BB58 GMT will be done in blue 😊
Imagine a Blueberry GMT? 🔥 They have so much to expand on now with this new range! 🥃
I like the Black/Grey/Green GMT, but I'm a huge fan of the all Black GMT. I've heard it referred to as the "Dark Knight."
Would've loved to have seen them just bring back the all-black and it would've gone nicer with Tudor's offering for the year too! 🥃
IDGuy you are my favorite watch TH-camr. Hands down your analysis commentaries are the most insightful in the watchosphere 🎉
Ah man, thank you. I really do appreciate it AND it means the most that somebody else enjoys the small write-ups I prepare (that at least stay on track) 😆 Have a great weekend sir! 🥃
Sadly, most people probably think Rolex is Haute Horology., It is not. All Rolex is the best marketing company on the planet
Good Sunday Morning to you sir. There was no 'Wonder' in the Rolex releases this year.
Although, I must say I do like the new 1908. The 1908 line has intrigued me since its release. A watch with a small seconds at six o'clock is something I adore. Reminds me so much of the 1902 Hunter case pocket watch I have from my Great Uncle.
Thanks as always for your perspective. Like many other comments, I truly look forward to your weekly vids.
Seeing the Metas gmt at under 13mm thickness. And then having the non gmt metas at above 13mm thickness. Makes me think we’ll see a new, slimmer flagship black bay in 4-5 years. Planned obsolescence isn’t quite the right word for tudors strategy but it sure isn’t far off.
Tudor learned that we sheeple will happily buy overly thick watches.
It feels like the brand is keeping specs away from us, knowing they don’t have to make the “perfect watch”. Saving and planning upgrades for the next 10 years so they can always “improve” they’re watches
We need a 1908 chronograph is what we need
1000% yes. Bi-compax, thin... holy smokes it would be incredible! 🔥
Great idea!
The Patek business model "buy all these precious metals and maybe if your a good boy we will allocate a steel sports " great video as has come to be expected
I think it’s safe to say that nobody had a “yellow gold deep sea” on their bingo card.
And when Tudor says “monochrome”, they aren’t kidding. Just a red shield would’ve been great.
Great video..thx
Spot-on Joker! 🤣
I like TUDOR releases very much. Just what I ve been waiting for.
Two years in a row Tudor manages to impress (and I'm sure that won't stop any time soon)🥃
1st question Brother, would you give up the Seamaster Trilogy for ANY new release this year, if £ weren't a consideration? Hope Classic Motoring is treating you well?
I think the Seamaster is really about sentimentality at this stage. It's been with me for four years (through good and awful experiences) So between the Seamaster and Explorer? They aren't going anywhere (not even for a Solid Gold Deepsea) 😉
@@ID-Guy I will ask the same question to you every year going forward as a measure of the release. Drive safe and stay well!
Something I hadn't considered was the impact of the pandemic on the design process and the 2 year lead time between inception and production - and I wouldn't have got there without your suggestion. It makes sense, given whats been released.
Otherwise, I'm struggling to find something meaningful to say - the BB58 GMT is cool watch, I like it. I dig gilt and prefer a Coke insert to a Pepsi … yet the watch doesn't exite me.
The Zenith Defy Revival Diver is the pick of 'em this year imo. 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 an interesting watch.
Cheers IDGuy.
Pandemic pushback and a lack of excitement, think you're bang on Anthony. I too didn't get a "kick" even after seeing the GMT - probably because I've been pumping out content around it for what must be 3-4 years 😆 AND next weeks videos is covering exactly what you've mentioned... loved what Zenith produced, even the Defy Chrono. It looks so "correct". Have a great weekend brother! 🥃
Honestly i am over Rolex. I can't get them from an AD so... Tudor is my brand to go for nowadays. I loved Omega too. But Omega is getting behind and going in a dark zone, in my estimation. Omega should release a new Seamaster and Planet Ocean real soon. And these better be awesome
My wish would be for that Tudor bb58 gmt to have that monochrome treatment, except with a solid black bezel instead of the Rolex Seiko 5 bezel
Rolex will continue to go up market with more gems and precious metals and Tudor will effectively be Rolex sport
Seems that way, right? In the next 5 years it feels like this direction will be realised for sure 🥃
@@ID-Guy slowly but surely is the Rolex way lol
Even if the releases from Rolex could and should be somewhat disturbing to watch enthusiasts not interested in precious metals, i'll say that if I was completely new to this or I was just in the market to buy "a watch" and just for the sake of indulging my fantasies one could walk into a store and buy whatever one wanted. Of all the GMTs they have come up with over the years, the ghost GMT on jubilee is the one i'd want over all the others by far. I like the sober and discreet presentation and I happen to love grey. The touch of green is just enough to give it a spark. I do hope to get it. Top of my list.
Tudor's decision to omit the 5 link bracelet on the vintage inspired bb58 coke GMT leads me to think they are reserving the 5 link bracelet for a non-vintage 58 GMT, possibly a blue bezel variant that's 2-3 years away. Possibly when that's released, the Coke GMT might get a bracelet refresh with the 5 link.
Tudor’s release this year definitely is not lackluster.
You're right, I shouldn't have grouped Tudor in with my Rolex thoughts. Hindsight of making a video on a Wednesday and releasing it on a Saturday 😆🥃
I want a white ranger !
White dial BBPro and Ranger! Now we’re talking 🔥
@@ID-Guy Scintillating! 🥃
Very insightful video. I really like the looks of the 1908, not so much the other Rolex offerings-I prefer an all black bezel to the black/grey on the GMT Master II. Tudor doesn’t excite me (either).
Made me wonder why they didn't just bring the All-Black bezel back (it would've synchronised well with Tudor's Black Black Bay) But you're right about that lack of excitement across the board 🥃
I agree the GMT is the star. Would have loved a 5 link bracelet. Not sure if I like the Gilt on the bezel, but will need to see it in person. Curious with the new movement, if they update the Pro this year. I don't see Tudor making any changes to BB GMT this year. A pelagos gmt will be interesting. That could be a one watch collection in itself
They've really opened the door for so much in the next year or two. Pelagos GMT (great point on the BBPro) It's clear that they keep on improving (besides the rivet bracelet) while big brother is taking the back seat 😆 Well said as always JT 🥃
Great video, and totally agree on the lacklaster releaes this year. I feel that Rolex is really attuned to the financial market. A more recession future outcome will mean more mono tone and more conventional releases this year. Thanks bro for the awesome video 🙏🏽
No one is mentioning that the dial markers on the new BB58 GMT are smaller when compared to the normal BB lineup. Definitely an improvement and further adding to the vintage 4/5 digit vibe. Now if they can only remove the faux rivet bracelet.
You are always spot on with your reviews. 100% agree the new GMT.
Thank you! Very nice show.
100% agree on your take on the 1908. To me the 1908 line (or the old Cellini for that matter) always felt like Rolex cosplaying as an haute horlogerie brand, which they aren’t.
As for their other releases, I wonder what the ghost bezel stainless steel GMT release would do to the secondary price of the old all black 116710LN as both look very similar to each other. Is it time to get the LN before prices start to rise?
The 1908 gives you that “sports watch in the guise of a field watch” feel, right? they aren’t fooling us 😉 My 2 cents? Go after the OG black bezel AND for an even better up-to-date buy, last years TT Grey/Black. If I had the money, last years model on a jubilee would already be in my collection 🥃
@@ID-Guy Indeed, aint fooling me thats for sure. Maybe they shouldve called it the “Guilloche Master” to help raise hype around that line. As for the GMT, I’m affraid I have neither enough clout with the AD nor the budget for last year’s precious metal models, the old LN though, might just be within reach in a few month’s time. Here’s hoping it wont blow up in value yet by then.
Tudor did a better job than the usual "meh" Rolex does every year. For the Black Bays, i think the trio is good. The problem is that all Tudor does are Black Bays, Black Bays, Black Bays.
The Black Bay Fatigue has hit me big time, gotta say BUT its probably because you can only discuss them so many times 😆 We've got to get more Pelagos'...
ID Guy makes excellent points on both Rolex and Tudor’s new models. Given Patek Philippe cut the Nautilus in steel from its catalog last year, Rolex is doing the same with its portfolio. So if you want an affordable tool watch at an AD, you will be offered a Rolex CPO or a Tudor in steel. Makes sense if Rolex/Tudor customers accept Rolex’s strategy. However, many collectors with uncommon sense and personal dignity, have discovered many other brands. So the collectors will decide with our money what watches we want to buy not Rolex .
{Note: I know Rolex owns 30% of the Swiss market. I know Rolex is the king for a reason. But the Pandemic changed everything and there are new trends emerging. For reference, General Motors owned over 50% of the United States auto market in the 1960’s. Then the first OPEC oil embargo occurred in the early 1970’s. GM never recovered. Only time will tell if Rolex loses its grip on the international watch market or not.}
The gold Deep Sea is actually probably the best and most interesting development from the brand in a decade; it is a wink and a smile to the ridiculousness of the deep sea, and an acknowledgement to who is buying the watch and why. It is the ultimate ridiculous, over the top watch, that still stays, dare I say it, restrained. They managed to make the ultimate bling watch without a single jewel, without fancy complications, just a basic three hand sport watch. That is peak Rolex right there.
Of course I would never buy it in a million years, (even if I could afford it) but I'm not the audience for it, and I get that.
I think Rolex gave us something to chew on for the next years with both LeMans watches. I wonder how many are in circulation. The Tiffany dial Nautilus and the LeMans are going to break limits on auctions in only a few years time from now.🔥🔥
I like the BB 58 GMT. I debating between that and the Grand Seiko Sports GMT quartz w/ blue dial and red GMT marker.
Love your reviews 🙏
From a business perspective the strategy of moving upmarket makes perfect sense: Patek-level exclusivity and price points for a mass produced, wholly machine made product would be an enviable position. But as you said, does the product come even close to the competitors? Without the ability to change your core lines too dramatically, your upmarketing strategy consists of artificial scarcity, some vertical integration (Bucherer), and mostly legacy flogging -- and how much longer can they draft off those 30ish years of the peak 4-digit era?
The BB58 GMT on the 5-link bracelet would be killer. Shame that configuration wasn’t in the initial release
I have this gut feel that they won’t be giving us a 5-link for this line for a few years, just so they can drum up more interest in the new BB41 😉 Sneaky tactics 🥃
I would like to see the tudor bb monochrome in green with match bezal
You and me both! I dedicated a video (maybe a year ago) on that theme exactly and made a forest green variant. It would be so, so good 🥃
Thanks for another great video.
Rolex - agree that they are moving into the horological stratosphere where they don’t fit well. But Rolex know the market is fickle is, and there are enough people who will follow them anywhere - that Rolex brand power is a big carrot to dangle in front of rich mules who will follow them anywhere.
Tudor - I love the Black Bay Black - of course it’s the Submariner that everyone has been asking for. But each year that goes by seems to confuse what they want from the Black Bay. Is it modern or is it vintage - and how does that line juxtapose with the Pelagos. I think the identities of the two lines are not fully resolved yet. This is probably a consequence of responding to what the market wants rather than defining a clear direction for themselves.
the 1908 was the only watch that truly hit hard this year from these two.
More optons elsewhere. more impressive releases elswhere.
I feel you, going to investigate a few of those in the coming weeks (Zenith will be up first 😉🥃)
I was at W&W in Geneve. , Perpetual 1908 Platinum is the watch for that price.
Wait list is longer than steel Daytona.
I too was underwhelmed, even Grand Seiko couldn’t find anything interesting to me this time. The monochrome Black Bay was only thing that even slightly raised my pulse, and that’s hardly a fascinating development!
Zenith are the only brand that I felt really delivered. I’m so intrigued by the Defy Extreme Diver and can’t decide if I think it’s an over-designed mess or a welcome injection of colour and fun and something that I really desire.
Next week's video I'll be covering the Zenith that stood out to me the most (diver) BUT the Defy chrono looked so "correct", right? Extremely well balanced. I'd say Zenith was definitely in that Top 5 running this year... considering how 90% of the pieces put us to sleep 😉
@@ID-Guy Well I’m definitely excited to hear your thoughts on the diver. There’s a huge amount going on there and I’ll be intrigued to see whether it all comes together in the metal.
@@ProfessorPesca A good friend of mine has been saying for years and years now "why aren't they bringing a diver back into their collection?" He nailed it! Just think of the variety from here? Excited to share it Prof 🥃
Tudor is going in the right direction, now the Tudor Black Bay 41 eta "the black rose" will be more collectible.
Alas, I miss the Rose and Smiling dial. Well said brother 🥃
This year not really impressed by either one. The GMT looks okay but not enough to get one. Your video is better then the releases. Enjoy the weekend.
I feel you Theo, really wished there was more of a “spark” - but maybe that’s subjective because I’ve been talking about the BB58 GMT for what must be nearly 4 years now 🤣 Enjoy your weekend brother!
Fantastic and ever-articulate vid agin my friend! Yes - 'lacklustre' sums it up very well. You're summation of the Crown's thought process behind these marketing decisions makes perfect sense now. Don't you think it's just a top-down reflection of the overall dealership experience most of us recieve; that cold, calculating and very impresonal ethos trickling down to us, the hoi polloi. And perhaps that's why so many of us are struggling with the whole AD dealer relationship - we're not a part of the 1% that they have their sight set on.
On another note - it may be lazy product development, but I absolutely love the 5-link Monochrome Black Bay! I never got on with the Gilt accents, but this one is destined for me - it's the closest to the old Tudor Sub I've seen yet 🙂 Keep up the good work!!!
It seems more and more that Rolex is chasing that same AP-Hype-Rapper-Star marketplace and leaving the everyday person out of the equation (for the most part) But then, these releases could have just been "releases for releases sake" - giving them more time to focus on the more in-demand models instead of creating hype and demand for newer ones. Its madness trying to decipher what goes on 😆 As for that Black Black Bay, I can see that it's going to bring so many people in. A "Tudor Sub" at last... thank you as always brother! 🥃
@@ID-Guy no, thank you my friend - superflous content as always!
I think Rolex’s novelties this year is one of the smartest in years. They can’t satisfy orders from 2014, let alone 2024.
Let them make what they are without increasing engineering demand so they can make the ones people are desperate for
Very good point, this may have just been a "releases for releases sake" to allow them more space 🥃
Well they (not 100% but substantially) could if they’d reign in the ‘out the back door’ sales straight to the grey market. Not that hard to do really.
@@WestCoastAce27 yeah that doesn’t happen.
I was thinking more Coke Zero Caffeine. Either way, the new 58 GMT is the only release I'm excited by this year! Overall, lacklustre is right.
There were a few standouts from other brands, but man... 90% of the show this year put us to sleep, right? 😆🥃
As I typically do, I'm up at 04:30 in anticipation of your Saturday morning video release. Again, a well thought out and articulated review of the subject at hand. IMHO, the new Platinum 1908 is an absolute hit from a design standpoint, albeit a niche market item.
Thank you for the shout out on the 1908 inspired world time complication. I can only wonder if our influential friend in the watch and YT world actually presented my design proposal to Rolex like he offered. Rolex knows how to innovate; the big question is will they or even do they need to in light of their position in the industry.
One thing I want to mention is the discontinuation of the Yacht-Master II, a watch that I personally will not miss, but maybe an opportunity for a new Ring Command Bezel watch, wink, wink. 😉
Lastly, you know my feelings on ANY Submariner/dive watch in gold let alone this monster in solid form. Yes, it will sell, but we expect a bit more from the Crown, or in this case, a bit less. 🤔
I can always rely on you Curt ;) Thank you for your feedback on these...erm, skeptical releases. And have a superb weekend sir! 🥃
@@ID-Guy Check out "D" at Hobby of Hours and his mod of his Tudor FXD Pelagos to a left-hand drive.
Also, lol at “we’re all very jealous of you”
✊
I like the new bb58 gmt😊
Whilst i do really like the new bb58 gmt, i think the colouration on your render is better. Treads the line between modern and vintage nod better.
Tudor states 20mm lugs on their website.
No excitement at all, but I've come to expect that from the Crown these days. At this point, I think they're just throwing darts at a board, seeing what they hit and turning these into reality. They know their brand is strong enough, that they'll find an audience for each new piece, somewhere.
Fear not. The demand for the gold deepsea will exceed supply. It's not for divers of course. Rolex know their customers.
100% on the money, they won’t be able to sell them fast enough 😆 Tells you a lot about todays wide-reaching Rolex customer 🥃
Why isn’t anyone talking about the fact that the gold black bay 58 have a bracelet without the faux rivets? I think that is perhaps the most important detail coming this year from Rolex and Tudor
Brilliantly explained as usual!!!!
Thanks you
I'm not sure that this should have been a big surprise from Rolex. I read somewhere (maybe WatchPro?) a couple of years ago that the new Rolex facility was going to be mostly dedicated to manufacturing precious metal watches. They would need to add more precious metal options to make this move viable.
The Tudor GMT, with what looks like a bakelite bezel (I know it’s not)M has got to be the hit of W&W.
It was definitely one of the top releases from the entire event (no small feat) Gotta say, I love the choice of red they used on that bezel 🔥
Its aluminium like all their other bezels.
💯 better sizing, bezel color combo watch fanatics have been asking for, gilt giving a subtle vintage vibe. Will be Tudor #4 for me.
It probably won't generate the views as a Rolex & Tudor video, but it would be interesting to learn your views on the small but considerate changes made to the Oris Aquis model range.
I’m actually in the process of putting something together about Oris (a bit more all-encompassing) and will absolutely cover the changes made to the Aquis 🥃
@@ID-Guy Look forward to it!
I've polished up my Superchat button & refreshed my PayPal just waiting for the next Livestream! God Bless my friend 🙏
@@IDKline Need to tempt him wiht something!
Does he have the time to do it? I hope so.
@@rhgrabowski3855 We use to have 3 hour Livestream a few years back.
Rolex releases this year make me want to drive my beige minivan to my 9-5 accounting job
They're inspiring, right? 😉🥃
Black bay 41 all black wins the show for me
As always, I love your takes.
Thank you brother and have a fantastic weekend! 🥃
@@ID-Guy thanks, you too!
With your design background, do you have any specific problems with the overall look of the platinum 1908? Because I definitely have a lot of issues that could easily in my view, remedy this new piece.
I'd say there's more than a few issues I have with it 😉 Chiefly, if they dropped the 9 & 3 numerals and kept the 12, there would be so much more harmony between the 12 and the Sub-dial. It's the kind of piece that deserves a bit more attention, no doubt! 🥃
@@ID-Guy Personally, as a dress watch fanatic, this is so close, and yet so far (particularly considering the retail price). The proportions look off because of the 39 mm size-it would look far more elegant at 36mm, and along that vein a slimmer version of the observatory hands (akin to what they did with the Etude #1 in Bill Sander's group) would be desirable. The Explorer 1 style applied numerals are akin to wearing tan loafers with a navy double-breasted suit, ie: out of place and incongruous. Shrink down the small seconds and get rid of the silly "superlative chronometer" boast (it's a dress watch, after all). The Rolex logo needs to be moved down, as there's too much dead space between the cannon pinion. And finally, ditch the syloxi, and instead utilize their parachrom hairspring; and I know it needs a Breguet overcoil, so would it kill you Rolex to make a hand-wound movement so it's overall slimmer (and again, it's a dress watch, after all).
@@kojiattwood It's a sports watch in the guise of a dress watch, plain and simple 😉 And I think that's why the majority see it as "alright" - without the Rolex name on the dial I doubt it would receive any attention. Definitely worth looking into for a future video 🔥
@@ID-Guy Yes, that's a good summation
@@ID-Guy don’t you think the hr hand looks out of place, too different from the minutes?
I’d love to see that dial out in the sunlight.
I couldn’t agree with you more Rolex will continue to elevate and push their precious metal options. I am here for it though. Thanks for another great video.
What?!?! Tudor absolutely killed it this year
I should've directed that "lacklustre" comment more to Rolex (and not roped Tudor into it) you're right. Hindsight 😉 Tudor's BB's this year were so on-point - arguably better than last year? 🥃
Not even close to killing it, pretty mediocre
Rolex's success in moving customers up the price ladder is evident from the recent Morgan Stanley top-50 Swiss Watch report. Their average sales price last year was CHF12,218 and the no-date sub sells this year for CHF9,167 (GBP price converted to CHF). For Omega it was 6,573, with 6,377 for the SMP300. Rolex buyers go well beyond entry-level.
Well put Shaun. It's clear that this is their main goal, punching up prices and getting a greater PPU 🥃
But they could raise prices $2k on every steel model (maybe leave the OP and DJ alone) and raise the profit per Watch metric. There would be grumbles - but they’d all sell AND might win back customers by dealing a huge blow to the grey market.
@@WestCoastAce27 the price differential between steel and gold is more than the cost of the gold. Having an inflated grey market helps push people towards precious metals, because it reduces the differential for would-be stainless steel customers at the wrong end of the list.
Here are a few of my observations from W&W this year:
While I do enjoy a couple of Tudor’s releases, there’s really nothing I’ll start saving $ for. I like the size of the BB58 GMT, but I’m not a fan of gilt. I love the monochrome color of the BB, but it’s still very thick.
Rolex seems to have solidified their position as a watch company that peons like me can’t justify purchasing.
If someone actually wears that behemoth Deepsea for diving, it’s dragging them right to the bottom!
The two brands showed their very clear divide this year, right? Either you're in that 1% who wants to flex or you're pursuing Tudor. Well said here Chris (as always) 🥃
ADs in the Emirates, rejoice..! For almost everyone else (ADs and customers), less steel and more verjazzling is a nightmare. It will help shore up sliding steel used values though...
I will still wait for more GMT releases before I have my pick, something awesome could make its way to us. When you mentioned GMT hand, I got excited because I thought we were going to share the same point of view; The color is definitely great as it does not contrast and take away from the dial. However, I do feel the hand seems like a bit of an intrusion on the dial, it seems too out of place. I just started thinking about the colored hand on the Rolex GMT and you may be right about it needing to have striking color, I think it will become more of a design feature rather than a feature that sits in there., which is what I get from the gold GMT hand.
The most insane release , is a solid gold Deep Sea, the luxury " tool watch " , that will NEVER be a tool !
Ha, ha,ha! The funniest watch pun yet. Nice one.😂
Tudor and Rolex, I enjoyed these releases. Tag Heuer stumbled, after huge success last year. Oris release was confused. Still waiting in coming weeks? Months? To see what Breitling and Omega will do.
while I'm as bored with the rolex releases as everyone else, I do think it's important to remember that the appeal of mechanical watches is that they're already an anachronism, they're not supposed to be advancing by leaps and bounds, and supposedly these trinkets are supposed to be with us decades if not centuries. I expect things to evolve at a much much slower pace than most consumer segments.
Happy they finally got the Tudor GMT 58, but I'm gonna hold until either they bring the 5 link bracelet to it, or a design without the gilt.
I’m interested in your opinion on the Bremont releases and rebrand!
It’s interesting to think about the era that we live in with the choices being made. People are being mugged for their watches. Conspicuous consumption is somewhat frowned upon. Yet, we see Rolex lean into opulent looks while Tudor mutes much of their catalog.
It makes me wonder if Rolex is going after the entertainment class (musicians) to try to burnish the brand with younger people in an AP-style…
But younger people can’t get into that watch. Building the exclusivity marketing?
I think you’re 100% on it, Rolex is going more and more for “look at me” pursuing the AP-hype-musician-opulent audience… it’s a sad state of affairs (no idea how long it will last) but the next generation - my generation? I doubt they’ll even look seriously at Rolex. It’s just too far and beyond 🥃
Tudor releases were interesting but could have been great. A pop of red on the lume pip on the BB would have lifted it so much. The GMT is a great size but Tudor please loose the gilt on your watches.
I've definitely been off the Tudor hype recently. Don't get me wrong, they make great watches. And, I think what we've seen at W&W24 this year has me patiently excited for the potential in future releases. But, for now, I have not found THE Tudor watch(es) I really want, yet.
Until then, I'll be content to shelve Tudor for a while and revisit them when they have exactly what I've been wanting. Something in their BB58 GMT line, someething in the Pelagos 39 line. Fingers cross they'll both happen in the future.
As with Rolex this year... anyways ...
Keep your ear to the ground for a Pelagos. To this day it’s still my No. 1 recommendation and we just know that some kind of GMT hybrid is in the pipeline 😉 Thanks as always for this Khrono! 🥃
Metas movement in the P39 would be fabulous.